Re: [NTG-context] Dense encoding, part II ???
Mojca Miklavec wrote: Hello, on the [tex-fonts] mailing list there was a recent discussion of people putting effort into enabling proper encoding to support typesetting of Lithuanian (in LaTeX). Before they start creating and using yet another encoding (incompatible with others and not shipped with any standard TeX distribution): is there any chance to finish the companion encoding in some reasonable time? i wonder, what characters do they need in addition to ec/texnansi/qx Even if they keep using LaTeX, I think that the same mechanism can be used in LaTeX as the one which combined EC (T1) with TS1. There is probably not that much left to be done. The letter part of the encoding is finished (and the Polish fonts already ship with those metric files) and quite some ideas for the companion font are already there. The major part left is to create ConTeXt support for combining two encodings, but from the past experiance with Hans that is probably a matter of not even a couple of hours. Or should we wait for Oriental TeX first? even with oriental tex, the old style encodings will be around for a while Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Dense encoding, part II
Hi, Here is my two cents: I agree with Mojca that lots of accents (both uppercase and lowercase) would be nice to have, just in case. I would really like to see the ascii versions of the keyboard symbols: circumflex, doublequote and tilde etc. (Texnansi normally has a sort of orphaned accent instead of the ascii symbol, which is not all that usable) Then there are straightforward symbols like copyright, registered and trademark; The currencies (at least euro, dollar, pound, yen, but preferably many more) A set of itemization bullets and dashes (some fonts have square ones) The 'text-style' calculus operations like multiply and divide, plus and minus, plusminus, arrowleft and arrow right, text fractions. I guess there are still missing punctuation characters as well. Also, as many units and symbols that can appear in running text as possible please. centigrade and perthousan, but also some greek letters like micro, Ohm, alpha beta (biology), gamma (radiology). These symbols are normally considered part of the text, so they should not depend on math mode. For example, if your write \beta-blocker, you want the \beta to be bold sans-serif inside a bold sans-serif section head. Greetings, Taco ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Dense encoding, part II
On 2/5/06, Adam Lindsay wrote:
Hans Hagen wrote:
Mojca Miklavec wrote:
Hello,
The fact that all Polish fonts (lm, iwona, kurier, antt) now ship with
el-* files makes me wonder: is there time to do the next step and
finish the second encoding with symbols?
indeed
Oop. Sorry, I hadn't been watching that.
I've suggested texnansi as a starting point, at least within ConTeXt.
What symbols do people want that *aren't* within texnansi?
1. Would Caron similar uppercase accents make sense? I doubt that
many accents are needed in addition to what is already present in the
other encoding anyway, but something like that could be used if there
is no Ccaron present in the font for example:
\definecharacter Ccaron {\buildtextaccent\textCaron C}
instead of
\definecharacter Ccaron {\buildtextaccent\textcaron C}
In well-designed fonts (including all Polish fonts such as lm,
antykwa, iwona, ...) the lowercase and the uppercase variant of the
accent differ. (Try to write \Scaron\Ccaron in texnansi encoding for
example to see the difference).
Of course some care has to be taken, so that it will also work for
fonts without those additional accents for uppercase characters (using
\iffontchar perhaps?).
2. perhaps some currency symbols missing in texnansi
I would suggest to add Euro, but with some special care of course.
Perhaps some users still prefer to use the regular (geometrical)
symbol rather than the one taken from I-forgot-which-font (the default
behaviour when \texteuro is used).
Any other currency on this list worth supporting?
http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U20A0.pdf
Perhaps dong, lira, Won ...
3. Perhaps a short glimpse into:
http://source.contextgarden.net/ts1-lm.enc
http://www.cstug.cz/aktivity/2005/lm-at11e.pdf
http://www.janusz.nowacki.strefa.pl/pliki/AntykwaTorunska-doc-en-2_03.pdf
if you notice anything worth supporting.
married might be useful for geneaology, I guess that the leaf is
there for the same purpose. No idea why anyone would want to use the
musical note (ugly in lm and probably hardly present in any other
font).
4. numero sign, ordfeminine, ordmasculine, copyleft ;), I don't know
if anybody needs fractions, permyriad, ... one/two/...superior
(present in some regimes) are pretty pointless in TeX where you can
use \high{} I guess. Perhaps there should be two different glyphs for
tilde and asciitilde (not sure about the last one.)
Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] Dense encoding, part II
Mojca Miklavec wrote:
On 2/5/06, Adam Lindsay wrote:
Hans Hagen wrote:
Mojca Miklavec wrote:
Hello,
The fact that all Polish fonts (lm, iwona, kurier, antt) now ship with
el-* files makes me wonder: is there time to do the next step and
finish the second encoding with symbols?
indeed
Oop. Sorry, I hadn't been watching that.
I've suggested texnansi as a starting point, at least within ConTeXt.
What symbols do people want that *aren't* within texnansi?
1. Would Caron similar uppercase accents make sense? I doubt that
many accents are needed in addition to what is already present in the
other encoding anyway, but something like that could be used if there
is no Ccaron present in the font for example:
\definecharacter Ccaron {\buildtextaccent\textCaron C}
instead of
\definecharacter Ccaron {\buildtextaccent\textcaron C}
In well-designed fonts (including all Polish fonts such as lm,
antykwa, iwona, ...) the lowercase and the uppercase variant of the
accent differ. (Try to write \Scaron\Ccaron in texnansi encoding for
example to see the difference).
Good point... except that there are *no* accents available in eurolett,
anyway. It *should* have all of the accented uppercase characters you
need (within roman ;). The whole theory is to do away with building text
accents. But what does Hans want? Should lc and uc accents be available
to create `weird' combinations?
Of course some care has to be taken, so that it will also work for
fonts without those additional accents for uppercase characters (using
\iffontchar perhaps?).
Indeed. I do want to avoid a strong dependency on the specific glyphs
that appear in the font. That moves the encoding mess to *within*
ConTeXt, which is not pretty, either.
2. perhaps some currency symbols missing in texnansi
I would suggest to add Euro, but with some special care of course.
Perhaps some users still prefer to use the regular (geometrical)
symbol rather than the one taken from I-forgot-which-font (the default
behaviour when \texteuro is used).
Any other currency on this list worth supporting?
http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U20A0.pdf
Perhaps dong, lira, Won ...
sounds like ts1-like stuff.
3. Perhaps a short glimpse into:
http://source.contextgarden.net/ts1-lm.enc
http://www.cstug.cz/aktivity/2005/lm-at11e.pdf
http://www.janusz.nowacki.strefa.pl/pliki/AntykwaTorunska-doc-en-2_03.pdf
if you notice anything worth supporting.
married might be useful for geneaology, I guess that the leaf is
there for the same purpose. No idea why anyone would want to use the
musical note (ugly in lm and probably hardly present in any other
font).
They're there because of ts1, which is *mostly* unhelpful here. I would
have thought glyph coverage from places like Adobe, Storm, and Emigre
(for example) might be a better guide.
4. numero sign, ordfeminine, ordmasculine, copyleft ;), I don't know
well, some of those are in standard practice, at least. ;)
if anybody needs fractions, permyriad, ... one/two/...superior
(present in some regimes) are pretty pointless in TeX where you can
use \high{} I guess. Perhaps there should be two different glyphs for
tilde and asciitilde (not sure about the last one.)
Yeah, I'm trying to be driven by *requirements* instead of technical
capability (i.e., what already exists in a family of fairly peculiar
fonts). I know those are around, but I don't hear a lot of calls for
them since ConTeXt moved to EC as a default encoding.
adam
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Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Lancaster University, InfoLab21+44(0)1524/510.514
Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492
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Re: [NTG-context] Dense encoding, part II
Hans Hagen wrote: Mojca Miklavec wrote: Hello, The fact that all Polish fonts (lm, iwona, kurier, antt) now ship with el-* files makes me wonder: is there time to do the next step and finish the second encoding with symbols? indeed Oop. Sorry, I hadn't been watching that. I've suggested texnansi as a starting point, at least within ConTeXt. What symbols do people want that *aren't* within texnansi? (Hint: Here are some symbols present in some Unicode-y fonts, but there's really little pattern to the coverage within typical professional fonts: http://homepage.mac.com/atl/tex/UnicodeSymbolDemo.pdf ) -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lancaster University, InfoLab21+44(0)1524/510.514 Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Dense encoding, part II
Mojca Miklavec wrote: Hello, The fact that all Polish fonts (lm, iwona, kurier, antt) now ship with el-* files makes me wonder: is there time to do the next step and finish the second encoding with symbols? indeed Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
