Re: [oi-dev] OpenIndiana Docs - updated

[Nikola M]

On 05/17/16 08:54 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote:

On 05/16/16 11:28 PM, Nikola M wrote:

On 05/17/16 05:46 AM, Michael Kruger wrote:
In regards to the PDL, to whom does one submit a signed contributor 
agreement?


To Openindiana and illumos surely.


Neither OI nor illumos have any legal entity to assign copyright to - 
no foundations or non-profit corporations were ever formed.


One more reason to have PDL in use, because it remains free, it remains 
inclusive and always available and can't be turned into proprietary, all 
that even without contributor agreement.


Therefore, that as expected has much more sense, and "Openindiana all 
rights reserved" has no full/any meaning, but it has if exact license, 
like PDL (or other compatible, MIT is compatible as I know) is stated.




You could only assign to individuals like Garrett or Alasdair, or to a
commercial company like Joyent, Everycity, or Oracle.

I suspect after what happened to OpenSolaris though, no one is interested
in further assignments to commercial entities of the right to make things
proprietary.

Fortunately, none of the licenses involved require such agreements.

-alan-



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Re: [oi-dev] OpenIndiana Docs - updated

[Alan Coopersmith]

On 05/16/16 11:28 PM, Nikola M wrote:

On 05/17/16 05:46 AM, Michael Kruger wrote:

In regards to the PDL, to whom does one submit a signed contributor agreement?


To Openindiana and illumos surely.


Neither OI nor illumos have any legal entity to assign copyright to - no 
foundations or non-profit corporations were ever formed.


You could only assign to individuals like Garrett or Alasdair, or to a
commercial company like Joyent, Everycity, or Oracle.

I suspect after what happened to OpenSolaris though, no one is interested
in further assignments to commercial entities of the right to make things
proprietary.

Fortunately, none of the licenses involved require such agreements.

-alan-

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Re: [oi-dev] OpenIndiana Docs - updated

[Nikola M]

On 05/17/16 01:25 AM, Michael Kruger wrote:

Other general note. If we have to use some documentation tools to write
OI documentation, they should be available in OI repository. Perhaps
it's not true for IDEs, but basic tools should be there.



In the case of this website, there really aren't any tools. That's the 
beauty of it all. The site is completely self contained and inclusive 
of all it's documents. Creating or editing documents only requires a 
plain text editor (VIM, Gedit, etc.). 


This is not true as i know, since as I have seen, you require for using 
third site for editing asciidoc documents and it is using Google 
javascripts, undermining privacy.


When mentioning tools, it is meant to have desktop tools to edit files 
offline and on OI's desktop.



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Re: [oi-dev] OpenIndiana Docs - updated

[Nikola M]

On 05/17/16 01:25 AM, Michael Kruger wrote:
more useful. Just so you know, it's been my intention all along to 
start pulling in reusable content from the Wiki, etc. 


On the contrary,  ways for reviewing your writings are that are included 
in Wiki after revision.
Wiki is here to stay for a long time and does not support pulling into 
outside proprietary things.


So no draining content outside form Wiki, but pulling it in to be better.
If you have in mind making Oi better.



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Re: [oi-dev] OpenIndiana Docs - updated

[Nikola M]

On 05/17/16 04:19 AM, Michael Kruger wrote:

On 05/16/2016 04:33 AM, Jim Klimov wrote:

In your defense, perhaps it makes sense to mark Michael's pages 
visibly as a draft/experiment/poc/etc. of a possible future of OI 
docs and not the official resource at this moment, so readers of the 
preview pages are not confused.


This is a good idea Jim, which I have implemented.


Articles per se, are not documentation even if called like that.
So they are clearly not the future of docs, for docs they are not.

It would be best calling them articles and totally expunge 
"Organisational" parts as not needed at the moment. But since it's 
private site, it's in makruger's discression to do with he's own site 
whatever he wants,

BUT calling it Openindiana site...



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Re: [oi-dev] OpenIndiana Docs - updated

[Nikola M]

On 05/17/16 05:46 AM, Michael Kruger wrote:

On 05/16/2016 02:43 AM, Nikola M wrote:



Posting any "guides" and "roles" inside Openindiana without consultation
of others and wider audience is simply arrogant and destructive to
Openindiana and that represents TROLLING of Openindiana.

Anyone wanting to make OI a prison for "roles" and "policies" in
privately handled conspiration-like consultations behind closed doors is
doing things against OI's and OI's users personal freedoms.


Nikolam,

My identification and specification of contributor roles is purely for 
the sake of organization. It is not meant to limit anyone's personal 
freedoms.


Prescribing "organisation" is arrogant way to enter the community.
Precisely everything OI hipster represents is avoidance of complicated 
procedures and functions, roles and being efficient with less people.
Not only that, but putting yourself in the center of the 
universe/processes you are self-proclaming yourself with roles no one 
supported you to have, and since I recognize such behavior as arrogant, 
will not be supported.


Identifying roles helps contributors better understand the different 
ways in which someone can 


As said numerous time already.
You ar enot making segregation roles at this time.
That is a currently regarded as a sick concept and  the moment not 
applicable to current state of affairs.


Moreover, without hearing what I am saying for several weeks and 
ignoring everything including technical details, you are ignoring 
well-being of OI in general.


You even tried putting in danger even a discussion process in OI , 
"complaining" about people instead of ideas.  Putting people's roles in 
front of ideas and people's freedom of communication, is clear violation 
of community process based on non-segregation, decentralization and a 
positive attitude toward people in the sake of community.
You can't form anything if you don't have positive attitude toward 
people and segregating them is using negativity and in a bad way.


contribute. For example, most people may wish to limit their 
activities to the role of content creator (author). 


No, you are wrong. People tend to expand their horizons and this is 
delusional idea that average people are content with being someone's 
slave, puppet or employee.
We are not promoting crashing anyone's freedom to contribute just 
because some might like it that way.
Even discussing about limiting people's scope and freedom makes me 
thinking of your capabilities of even comprehend organizing anything.


They may not be interested in performing tasks associated with the 
role of 'website developer' (one who extents the capabilities of the 
site), nor tasks associate with the role of 'content reviewer' (one 
who reviews pull requests).


I am to inform you that you are not to decide who has what role.
And also that there is simple too little people at the moment to be.
And that you are not the guy who have recognized qualities to mandate roles.



All these roles are necessary for the site to succeed. Think of them 
simply as organizational definitions to help guide the documentation 
effort.


You are not by any means connected with OI site.
Any "role" that you think or maybe want to have on OI site is 
self-proclamed , and it is simply disgusting to see you filling any part 
of OI site with shit like this.


You are not excellent writer and proved don't accept suggestions and you 
tend to seek confrontation instead of collaboration.
You are talking about "owning" OI site and proclaiming "victory" over it 
for your ideas that are not applicable to small number of people, and 
even destructive as we are seeing from this dialogue over weeks.
Yet you forcefully peruse ideas that is explained to you numerous times 
that are bad from multiple standing points, social, organizational, 
technical, personal..






You are not going to single-handed destroy positive community process
with the reviews, good intention to everyone, without isolationist
policies, freedom of contribution and a good will in general.
You are not allowed to police Openindiana contribution process.



If documentation resides in a GitHub repository, 


And it is not, not yours.

then someone has to review the pull requests. 


And it's not you. Not even close at the moment.

It does not necessarily have to be me performing this role, 


No and if we don't have "prescribed" roles atm, not at all..


although I am the most likely candidate


No you are most likely self proclaimed (enter the word of anyone's likings).
Not only you are not a good candidate,
but by still not accepting real Opensolaris docs PDL licensing and any 
guidance provided up to now, you pretty much excluded yourself from any 
role in a long time.



unless someone else wishes to do it.


And that is getting back to "bad roles" idea proclaimed and controlled 
by you.


It is just a shame that this discussion put roles as themselves in a bad 
way. Roles should not be 

Re: [oi-dev] OpenIndiana Docs - updated

[Michael Kruger]

On 05/16/2016 02:43 AM, Nikola M wrote:



Posting any "guides" and "roles" inside Openindiana without consultation
of others and wider audience is simply arrogant and destructive to
Openindiana and that represents TROLLING of Openindiana.

Anyone wanting to make OI a prison for "roles" and "policies" in
privately handled conspiration-like consultations behind closed doors is
doing things against OI's and OI's users personal freedoms.


Nikolam,

My identification and specification of contributor roles is purely for 
the sake of organization. It is not meant to limit anyone's personal 
freedoms.


Identifying roles helps contributors better understand the different 
ways in which someone can contribute. For example, most people may wish 
to limit their activities to the role of content creator (author). They 
may not be interested in performing tasks associated with the role of 
'website developer' (one who extents the capabilities of the site), nor 
tasks associate with the role of 'content reviewer' (one who reviews 
pull requests).


All these roles are necessary for the site to succeed. Think of them 
simply as organizational definitions to help guide the documentation effort.




You are not going to single-handed destroy positive community process
with the reviews, good intention to everyone, without isolationist
policies, freedom of contribution and a good will in general.
You are not allowed to police Openindiana contribution process.



If documentation resides in a GitHub repository, then someone has to 
review the pull requests. It does not necessarily have to be me 
performing this role, although I am the most likely candidateunless 
someone else wishes to do it.


While on the subject of content review, the lack of such review is 
unfortunately one of the shortcomings of the OI Wiki.


Personal freedoms should not equal chaos.

What I mean isfor a user guide to be useful and considered credible, 
there needs to be a methodical consistency in how content is written, 
styled, and organized. A project leader (or in this case, a content 
reviewer) is a required element of the process.


After all, people do not submit source code to the mainline branch 
without at least some degree of review.


Why should documentation be any different?

In fact, the FreeBSD project has a review process. The OpenSolaris 
Project had one too. What prohibits the OpenIndiana project from 
adopting such a process as well?


In summary, lack of organizational process = chaos, and chaos is 
unlikely to ever result in FreeBSD quality systems documentation.




You ignored ALL availble suggestions and also you refused to accept
Opensolaris Docs PDL license that you need to accept before working on
them.


I don't understand why you keep mentioning this.

When have I refused to accept the PDL license?

I simply questioned whether the PDL was relevant to new documentation 
and whether new documentation really needed to follow it (or whether 
some other license might be more appropriate).


In regards to the PDL, to whom does one submit a signed contributor 
agreement? And did you (or anyone else) ever sign a contributor 
agreement before you began writing content for the Wiki or anywhere else 
on OpenIndiana.org? Under what license is this content licensed, or is 
it even licensed at all?


If the content is in fact PDL licensed, who manages this process and 
where are these contributor agreements stored?


These are all valid questions.

Michael

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Re: [oi-dev] OpenIndiana Docs - updated

[Alexander Pyhalov]

On 05/16/2016 06:58, Michael Kruger wrote:

Hello All,

Reporting my progress so nobody gets the idea this little technology
demonstration project has been abandoned. Far from it, there has been
continued development.

See it all here: http://makruger.github.io/website/


Some notes:
http://makruger.github.io/website/pages/docs/faq.html:
1) Sun/Oracle’s proprietary OS/NET consolidation has been replaced with 
illumos-gate. => Sun OS/NET consolidation, closed by Oracle, has been 
replaced...  I mean, OS/NET was open until Oracle came;
2) What are the recommended hardware specifications... I'm not sure 
about 4GB... It can be true for desktop/decent server, but you shurely 
can run OI with 2GB RAM or even less. I've just checked, my OI VM with 
GUI has 2 GB RAM... Perhaps, we can distinguish minimal and recommended 
requirements?


http://makruger.github.io/website/pages/docs/handbook.html
Besides synchronizing to Handbook on the wiki, other notes:
1) Booting physical hardware - seems irrelevant, better to provide links 
to illumos HCL and OI community HCL.

2) 2.1.2. Booting Virtual Hardware
No special tricks are required for Virtualbox, just mention to select os 
type Solaris 11 64-bit.

3) 2.2. The OpenIndiana Boot Menu
 You should eventually be presented with a desktop. - irrelevant to 
Text Install images.

4) Perhaps, need to mention that UEFI boot is still not supported.
5) 4.2  When you boot from the text installer, it immediately begins the 
installation process using the previously described Text based Guided 
Install.

Not entirely true, it also can spawn shell and be used as recovery image.

Other general note. If we have to use some documentation tools to write 
OI documentation, they should be available in OI repository. Perhaps 
it's not true for IDEs, but basic tools should be there.

--
Best regards,
Alexander Pyhalov,
system administrator of Southern Federal University IT department

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Re: [oi-dev] OpenIndiana Docs - updated

[Nikola M]

On 05/16/16 11:27 AM, Nikola M wrote:

On 05/16/16 09:43 AM, Adam Števko wrote:


STOP calling your private site "Openindiana docs" they are not , 
simply

because you just wrote something on your site and you just say so.
Working on things alone and then coming up with aspiration to turn
around everything is not friendly behavior to Openindiana and it's
community.
Please, Nikola, stop it...  If you have technical notices to the 
docs, please, post them. Michael is trying to do something which 
will become official OI docs site one day. He has posted links to 
get feedback on his work. Once we are satisfied with the site, it 
will be moved to OI infrastructure. At least, it's the plan.


We need technical reviews, not personal attacks.


My techical notices and reviews are getting ignored all the time even 
I got multiple positive feedbacks that there are tens of big issues 
with this king of trolling of OI that Makruger is doing.


It was meant to be said "kind of " not "king of" that is a mistake.



Contribution process if accepted like this is broken because requires 
to go to third asciidoc site.
It also requires Google's javascript to work and that is against 
user's privacy.
Article selection should be from inside OI's people and not from 
Makruger's own will(!!)


Calling it "OI docs" is a lie. Openoslaris docs to be revisited are 
PDL and he's not accepting PDL.

3 article made and not through Openindiana Wiki is not revision process.
Those articles are seriously lacking in every respect including very 
bad things already on OI's FAQ (like needing to have 4GB of RAM to run 
OI , that is obviously untrue) and having articles very long meaning, 
Makruger is KILLING new contributors process.
And finally including "roles" and policing "who can do what" is really 
fascist as an idea.
Someone must say that those "people isolating" ideas are fascists and 
need to be stopped before they are too late.


Asking people to stop talk in public and discuss is trolling of OI and 
replacing it with PRIVATE talk and closed lists is not what people 
searching freedom in using free software and open source have in mind.
Attacking me personally for expressing that including "docs trolls" in 
OI is huge mistake that will end up in undermining all work done for 
years.





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Re: [oi-dev] OpenIndiana Docs - updated

[Nikola M]

On 05/16/16 09:43 AM, Adam Števko wrote:



STOP calling your private site "Openindiana docs" they are not , simply
because you just wrote something on your site and you just say so.
Working on things alone and then coming up with aspiration to turn
around everything is not friendly behavior to Openindiana and it's
community.

Please, Nikola, stop it...  If you have technical notices to the docs, please, 
post them. Michael is trying to do something which will become official OI docs 
site one day. He has posted links to get feedback on his work. Once we are 
satisfied with the site, it will be moved to OI infrastructure. At least, it's 
the plan.

We need technical reviews, not personal attacks.


My techical notices and reviews are getting ignored all the time even I 
got multiple positive feedbacks that there are tens of big issues with 
this king of trolling of OI that Makruger is doing.


Contribution process if accepted like this is broken because requires to 
go to third asciidoc site.
It also requires Google's javascript to work and that is against user's 
privacy.
Article selection should be from inside OI's people and not from 
Makruger's own will(!!)


Calling it "OI docs" is a lie. Openoslaris docs to be revisited are PDL 
and he's not accepting PDL.

3 article made and not through Openindiana Wiki is not revision process.
Those articles are seriously lacking in every respect including very bad 
things already on OI's FAQ (like needing to have 4GB of RAM to run OI , 
that is obviously untrue) and having articles very long meaning, 
Makruger is KILLING new contributors process.
And finally including "roles" and policing "who can do what" is really 
fascist as an idea.
Someone must say that those "people isolating" ideas are fascists and 
need to be stopped before they are too late.


Asking people to stop talk in public and discuss is trolling of OI and 
replacing it with PRIVATE talk and closed lists is not what people 
searching freedom in using free software and open source have in mind.
Attacking me personally for expressing that including "docs trolls" in 
OI is huge mistake that will end up in undermining all work done for years.



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Re: [oi-dev] OpenIndiana Docs - updated

[Adam Števko]

+1

> On 16 May 2016, at 09:22, Alexander Pyhalov  wrote:
> 
>> On 05/16/2016 09:43, Nikola M wrote:
>>> On 05/16/16 05:58 AM, Michael Kruger wrote:
>>> Hello All,
>>> 
>>> Reporting my progress so nobody gets the idea this little technology
>>> demonstration project has been abandoned. Far from it, there has been
>>> continued development.
>>> 
>>> See it all here: http://makruger.github.io/website/
>> 
>> STOP calling your private site "Openindiana docs" they are not , simply
>> because you just wrote something on your site and you just say so.
>> Working on things alone and then coming up with aspiration to turn
>> around everything is not friendly behavior to Openindiana and it's
>> community.
> 
> Please, Nikola, stop it...  If you have technical notices to the docs, 
> please, post them. Michael is trying to do something which will become 
> official OI docs site one day. He has posted links to get feedback on his 
> work. Once we are satisfied with the site, it will be moved to OI 
> infrastructure. At least, it's the plan.
> 
> We need technical reviews, not personal attacks.
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Alexander Pyhalov,
> system administrator of Southern Federal University IT department
> 
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Re: [oi-dev] OpenIndiana Docs - updated

[Alexander Pyhalov]

On 05/16/2016 09:43, Nikola M wrote:

On 05/16/16 05:58 AM, Michael Kruger wrote:

Hello All,

Reporting my progress so nobody gets the idea this little technology
demonstration project has been abandoned. Far from it, there has been
continued development.

See it all here: http://makruger.github.io/website/


STOP calling your private site "Openindiana docs" they are not , simply
because you just wrote something on your site and you just say so.
Working on things alone and then coming up with aspiration to turn
around everything is not friendly behavior to Openindiana and it's
community.


Please, Nikola, stop it...  If you have technical notices to the docs, 
please, post them. Michael is trying to do something which will become 
official OI docs site one day. He has posted links to get feedback on 
his work. Once we are satisfied with the site, it will be moved to OI 
infrastructure. At least, it's the plan.


We need technical reviews, not personal attacks.

--
Best regards,
Alexander Pyhalov,
system administrator of Southern Federal University IT department

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