Re: [oi-dev] X packages to deprecate

2016-08-29 Thread Udo Grabowski (IMK) 

On 29/08/2016 09:33, Alexander Pyhalov wrote:

On 08/27/16 02:40 PM, Aurélien Larcher wrote:

Hi,
Are we able to simply and effectively deprecate these packages or are
there issues to foresee?

pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwinc@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwman@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwopt@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwplr@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwplt@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwpmn@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwslb@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/library/motif/libdpstkxm@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/system/kernel/hardware-cursor@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/compatibility/links-svid@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/library/dps@7.5,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/library/libowconfig@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/library/toolkit/libxaw4@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/library/toolkit/libxaw5@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/network/rstart@1.0.3,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/network/x11-network-proxies@7.5,5.11-2013.0.0.0



Does someone know if any of these libraries are used by Oracle DBMS GUI tools?



These are the potential packages the installer scripts search for:
(Oracle 10g)

SUNWbtool,SUNWarc,SUNWhea,SUNWlibm,SUNWlibms,SUNWsprot,SUNWcluster,
SUNWtoo,SUNWi1of,SUNWi1cs,SUNWi15cs,SUNWxwfnt,SUNWspro

The installer GUIs are JAVA based. I rememeber that I already
had to hack the installer scripts to get Oracle 10g onto
Opensolaris, so I think it makes no sense to try to keep the
SUNW cruft any longer. Here are the packages that are actually
used after successfull installation (OI 151 a9):

lib/libaio.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libavl.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libc.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libdevinfo.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libdl.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libelf.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libgen.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libkstat.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libm.so.1 pkg:/system/library/math@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libm.so.2 pkg:/system/library/math@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libmd.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libmp.so.2 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libnsl.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libnvpair.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libpthread.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/librt.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libsec.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libsocket.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libthread.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
lib/libuutil.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
usr/lib/libCrun.so.1 pkg:/system/library/c++/sunpro@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
usr/lib/libexpat.so.0 pkg:/library/expat@2.1.0-0.151.1.9
usr/lib/libidmap.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
usr/lib/libkvm.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9
usr/lib/libsched.so.1 pkg:/system/library@0.5.11-0.151.1.9

--
Dr.Udo Grabowski   Inst.f.Meteorology & Climate Research IMK-ASF-SAT
http://www.imk-asf.kit.edu/english/sat.php
KIT - Karlsruhe Institute of Technology   http://www.kit.edu
Postfach 3640,76021 Karlsruhe,Germany T:(+49)721 608-26026 F:-926026



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Re: [oi-dev] X packages to deprecate

2016-08-29 Thread Alexander Pyhalov 

On 08/27/16 02:40 PM, Aurélien Larcher wrote:

Hi,
Are we able to simply and effectively deprecate these packages or are
there issues to foresee?

pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwinc@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwman@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwopt@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwplr@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwplt@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwpmn@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwslb@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/library/motif/libdpstkxm@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/system/kernel/hardware-cursor@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/compatibility/links-svid@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/library/dps@7.5,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/library/libowconfig@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/library/toolkit/libxaw4@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/library/toolkit/libxaw5@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/network/rstart@1.0.3,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/network/x11-network-proxies@7.5,5.11-2013.0.0.0



Does someone know if any of these libraries are used by Oracle DBMS GUI 
tools?



--
Best regards,
Alexander Pyhalov,
system administrator of Southern Federal University IT department

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Re: [oi-dev] X packages to deprecate

2016-08-28 Thread Volker A. Brandt 
Alan Coopersmith writes:
> But if you're building them from source today, then you're using 
> libxaw7, not libxaw4 or libxaw5 right?   I only saw 4 & 5 on the
> proposed deprecation list, not 7.

Correct, it is using libXaw7.  FWIW 4 & 5 can go IMHO. :-)


Regards -- Volker
-- 

Volker A. Brandt   Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim, GERMANYEmail: v...@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46
Geschäftsführer: Rainer J.H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt

"When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead"

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Re: [oi-dev] X packages to deprecate

2016-08-28 Thread Alan Coopersmith 

On 8/28/2016 3:17 AM, Udo Grabowski (IMK) wrote:

On 28/08/2016 12:15, Volker A. Brandt wrote:

Udo Grabowski (IMK) writes:

On 27/08/2016 20:30, Alan Coopersmith wrote:

pkg:/x11/library/toolkit/libxaw4@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/library/toolkit/libxaw5@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0


These provide backwards binary compatibility for Xaw apps compiled
on older
Solaris releases - libXaw4 for those built on Solaris 2.2 or prior
(yes,
1992ish), libXaw5 for those build on Solaris 2.3 through 10.

libXaw7 is the current version of this, introduced to OpenSolaris in
2008.




There are a few programs out there needed that use this library,
xfig being the most prominent of these.


The xdvi viewer from the TeXlive system also (still) uses libXaw.



Indeed, I forgot that, this is also used here heavily,
so libXaw is indeed an important package to keep.


But if you're building them from source today, then you're using 
libxaw7, not libxaw4 or libxaw5 right?   I only saw 4 & 5 on the

proposed deprecation list, not 7.

-alan-

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Re: [oi-dev] X packages to deprecate

2016-08-28 Thread Udo Grabowski (IMK) 

On 28/08/2016 12:15, Volker A. Brandt wrote:

Udo Grabowski (IMK) writes:

On 27/08/2016 20:30, Alan Coopersmith wrote:

pkg:/x11/library/toolkit/libxaw4@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/library/toolkit/libxaw5@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0


These provide backwards binary compatibility for Xaw apps compiled on older
Solaris releases - libXaw4 for those built on Solaris 2.2 or prior (yes,
1992ish), libXaw5 for those build on Solaris 2.3 through 10.

libXaw7 is the current version of this, introduced to OpenSolaris in 2008.




There are a few programs out there needed that use this library,
xfig being the most prominent of these.


The xdvi viewer from the TeXlive system also (still) uses libXaw.



Indeed, I forgot that, this is also used here heavily,
so libXaw is indeed an important package to keep.




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Re: [oi-dev] X packages to deprecate

2016-08-28 Thread Volker A. Brandt 
Udo Grabowski (IMK) writes:
> On 27/08/2016 20:30, Alan Coopersmith wrote:
> >> pkg:/x11/library/toolkit/libxaw4@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
> >> pkg:/x11/library/toolkit/libxaw5@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
> >
> > These provide backwards binary compatibility for Xaw apps compiled on older
> > Solaris releases - libXaw4 for those built on Solaris 2.2 or prior (yes,
> > 1992ish), libXaw5 for those build on Solaris 2.3 through 10.
> >
> > libXaw7 is the current version of this, introduced to OpenSolaris in 2008.
> >
> >
> 
> There are a few programs out there needed that use this library,
> xfig being the most prominent of these.

The xdvi viewer from the TeXlive system also (still) uses libXaw.


Regards -- Volker
-- 

Volker A. Brandt   Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim, GERMANYEmail: v...@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46
Geschäftsführer: Rainer J.H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt

"When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead"

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Re: [oi-dev] X packages to deprecate

2016-08-28 Thread Udo Grabowski (IMK) 

On 27/08/2016 20:30, Alan Coopersmith wrote:

On 08/27/16 04:40 AM, Aurélien Larcher wrote:

Are we able to simply and effectively deprecate these packages or are
there issues to foresee?


You can probably guess my opinion based on how many of them I've already
obsoleted in  https://hg.java.net/hg/solaris-x11~x-s12-clone/ but since
others asked what these do, I can provide some background.
.

pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwplr@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwplt@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0

.


These two (or at least plt) are needed for the Oracle 11gR2 database.




pkg:/x11/library/toolkit/libxaw4@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/library/toolkit/libxaw5@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0


These provide backwards binary compatibility for Xaw apps compiled on older
Solaris releases - libXaw4 for those built on Solaris 2.2 or prior (yes,
1992ish), libXaw5 for those build on Solaris 2.3 through 10.

libXaw7 is the current version of this, introduced to OpenSolaris in 2008.




There are a few programs out there needed that use this library,
xfig being the most prominent of these. It's very old, but has no
functional equivalent in the whole UNIX world ('dia' miserably
failed to become one), and is still the most useful program in
that area that I've ever encountered. I have patches to compile it
with the netpbm packages on OI, so this is still functional.




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Re: [oi-dev] X packages to deprecate

2016-08-27 Thread Reginald Beardsley via oi-dev 
[big snip]

Thank you Alan.  As always, it is well worth reading when you write.  That was 
an excellent summary.

Based on Alan's descriptions, I don't see anything I care about, and I 
certainly qualify as a dinosaur.

BTW I also use tcsh though I've not symlinked /bin/csh to it.   For root I keep 
the  default as /bin/sh, but as soon as I su to root I start tcsh.  It's a 
personal system in a secure location.  I keep a root window active so I can 
easily mount and unmount devices. Vold is the spawn of the devil.  It might be 
better now, but it caused me so many headaches I now disable it as soon as I 
configure a new system.  I also make a point of keeping the root window 
iconified when not in use and the PATH is so restricted that almost anything 
other than admin work is not possible.  I've got other windows for those tasks.

Reg

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Re: [oi-dev] X packages to deprecate

2016-08-27 Thread Alan Coopersmith 

On 08/27/16 04:40 AM, Aurélien Larcher wrote:

Are we able to simply and effectively deprecate these packages or are
there issues to foresee?


You can probably guess my opinion based on how many of them I've already
obsoleted in  https://hg.java.net/hg/solaris-x11~x-s12-clone/ but since
others asked what these do, I can provide some background.


pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwinc@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwman@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwopt@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwplr@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwplt@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwpmn@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/compatibility/packages/SUNWxwslb@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0


These were a transition aid for our package refactoring, when we
went from "Put all the headers for all libraries in SUNWinc,
all the libraries & programs in SUNWplt, all the man pages for
all the programs in SUNWxwman and for all the libraries in SUNWxwpmn"
to following the upstream groupings & IPS model of keeping headers,
man pages, etc. with the software they are for, to allow people
following S10 instructions or using SVR4 packages with old
dependencies to get the same sets of files those used to provide.

I've not deleted them mostly because they're low cost - there's
little to maintain as they're just dependencies on other packages,
but someday the transition will probably end.


pkg:/library/motif/libdpstkxm@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0


This lets you use DPS (see below) in a Motif application.
Two ancient bits mixed together makes something far more obscure!
I have no idea if anything ever used it.


pkg:/system/kernel/hardware-cursor@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0


This module provides hardware cursor acceleration for Xsun on SPARC fb
drivers.  It's actually a clever little streams module you push on the
mouse stream that causes it to update the cursor directly on the fb driver,
all without ever leaving the kernel to context switch in the X server.
But cleverness isn't useful if you have nothing to use it with, so we
dropped it once Xsun was gone.


pkg:/x11/compatibility/links-svid@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0


Long long ago, Sun put all of X in /usr/openwin.
The System V Interface Definition standard needed a vendor independent path,
so said to use /usr/X and allowed Sun to make it a symlink to /usr/openwin.


pkg:/x11/library/dps@7.5,5.11-2013.0.0.0


This is the Display Postscript (DPS) client library for old software written
to use this X11 extension.   Unless you're displaying to an ancient server
like Xsun that has this deeply proprietary extension, all it does today is
let your software run without complaining the library is missing and query
the server to find the extension isn't there.

Removing this breaks the ancient OpenWindows AnswerBook display tool that
was obseleted by "point a web browser at docs.sun.com" 2 decades ago, and
the Java SE runtime environment for Java 1.4 and before.   Preventing people
from running Java code that hasn't gotten security patches since 2008 seems
like a public service to me.


pkg:/x11/library/libowconfig@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0


This reads and writes config files for the Xsun server.
If you ever ship the openXsun sources I released shortly before OpenSolaris.org
died you need it, if not, you don't.


pkg:/x11/library/toolkit/libxaw4@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0
pkg:/x11/library/toolkit/libxaw5@0.5.11,5.11-2013.0.0.0


These provide backwards binary compatibility for Xaw apps compiled on older
Solaris releases - libXaw4 for those built on Solaris 2.2 or prior (yes,
1992ish), libXaw5 for those build on Solaris 2.3 through 10.

libXaw7 is the current version of this, introduced to OpenSolaris in 2008.


pkg:/x11/network/rstart@1.0.3,5.11-2013.0.0.0


This is an old solution for using rsh to start X11 apps remotely.
It was superseded by "ssh -X" in the mid-90's.


pkg:/x11/network/x11-network-proxies@7.5,5.11-2013.0.0.0


This package contains the lbxproxy, xfwp, xfindproxy, and proxymngr utilities
for proxying the X11 protocol over low-bandwidth connections or through a 
firewall.

Over a decade ago, Keith Packard & Jim Gettys compared lbxproxy to ssh with
X11 Forwarding & Compression and found ssh provided equivalent or better
performance and latency to lbxproxy, and concluded:
  "LBX does not solve either the authentication and security problems that
   SSH solves. We saw little evidence of LBX ever helping. At least as
   implemented, LBX looks to have been a bad idea."
   - http://keithp.com/~keithp/talks/usenix2003/

As a result X.Org deprecated LBX and dropped support for it from Xorg 1.2
and later releases, so the Xorg servers in Solaris 10 & later do not have
any LBX support, only older servers like Xsun do.   I've never seen anyone
use the others, since SSH X11 tunneling is far easier to setup and more secure.

-alan-

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Re: [oi-dev] X packages to deprecate

2016-08-27 Thread Aurélien Larcher 
On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Reginald Beardsley via oi-dev
 wrote:
> That's rather opaque.  Even pkg doesn't supply much information about them.  
> I'm guessing that these are OpenWindows related, but don't really know.
>
> Is the twm window manager in one of these?  That would be a requirement for 
> migrating my main system off of 10 and onto OI.  Personal work habit, but I 
> make heavy use of multiple xterms selected by way of the twm icon menu.

pkg search tells that twm is desktop/window-manager/twm and pkgtree
depends tells that it does not depend on any of these :)

>
> When my work system was still connected to the internet I ran dtwm on one 
> screen to accommodate Netscape and twm on the other.  When I took it offline 
> I dropped dtwm and run twm on both screens.
>
> While we're on the subject.  I've started seeing my screen blank for a few 
> seconds periodically.  Just goes black.
> Has anyone else seen this?  I'm running oi151_a8.
>
> Reg
>
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Re: [oi-dev] X packages to deprecate

2016-08-27 Thread Reginald Beardsley via oi-dev 
That's rather opaque.  Even pkg doesn't supply much information about them.  
I'm guessing that these are OpenWindows related, but don't really know.

Is the twm window manager in one of these?  That would be a requirement for 
migrating my main system off of 10 and onto OI.  Personal work habit, but I 
make heavy use of multiple xterms selected by way of the twm icon menu.

When my work system was still connected to the internet I ran dtwm on one 
screen to accommodate Netscape and twm on the other.  When I took it offline I 
dropped dtwm and run twm on both screens.

While we're on the subject.  I've started seeing my screen blank for a few 
seconds periodically.  Just goes black.
Has anyone else seen this?  I'm running oi151_a8.

Reg

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