Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Finally - OmniOSce Commercial Support

[Günther Alka]

Thanks
Highly appeciated as this will strengthen the confidence into the 
Illumos + OmniOS platform.

I recommend commercial users to accept the offer.

Gea
napp-it.org


Am 07.02.2018 um 21:40 schrieb Tobias Oetiker:
After getting the release process up and running smoothly, the 
OmniOSce Association is finally ready to start that long awaited 
Commercial Support offering:


Are you running your Servers on OmniOS Community Edition? Would you 
like to ensure you are not left alone if you run into trouble with the 
devices? Would you like to ensure the continued maintenance and 
development of your favorite OS?


Go to our website and request an invoice to get your Organisation 
started on a new OmniOS support contract:


*https://www.omniosce.org/invoice*

cheers
tobi oetiker

OmniOSce Association
Aarweg 17, 4600 Olten, Switzerland



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[OmniOS-discuss] OmniOS New Homepage https://www.omniosce.org

[Tobias Oetiker]

If you want to explain to someone why OmniOSce is cool ... 

Now you CAN point them to our homepage without further confusing them :-) 

They might actually understand ... https://www.omniosce.org 

cheers 
tobi 

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www.oetiker.ch t...@oetiker.ch +41 62 775 9902 
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[OmniOS-discuss] Finally - OmniOSce Commercial Support

[Tobias Oetiker]

After getting the release process up and running smoothly, the OmniOSce 
Association is finally ready to start that long awaited Commercial Support 
offering: 

Are you running your Servers on OmniOS Community Edition? Would you like to 
ensure you are not left alone if you run into trouble with the devices? Would 
you like to ensure the continued maintenance and development of your favorite 
OS? 

Go to our website and request an invoice to get your Organisation started on a 
new OmniOS support contract: 

https://www.omniosce.org/invoice 

cheers 
tobi oetiker 

OmniOSce Association 
Aarweg 17, 4600 Olten, Switzerland 

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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Request advise on pool upgrade

[Andries Annema]

Now that, "my dear Watson", is an interesting 4th option!
The usefulness of one large single pool to house all my data and never 
bother shoveling data around over pool borders - as I did in a previous 
pre-zfs era with disk partitions - has always been my goal with this 
build. But, maybe, a compromise is a viable option to ease the process 
of upgrading once in a while. Maybe, focusing on one single pool is in 
itself too much of a disadvantage after all.


I'll give this some thought.
Thanks for sharing!

Cheers,

Andries


On 2018-02-07 11:08, Olaf Marzocchi wrote:
You have a big pool with many vdevs and that makes, as you noticed, 
upgrades difficult

I guess you don't need exceptional performances, isn't it?

Go then for 8 TB and option 1, creating a new pool as big as the 
previous one. Use the opportunity (the last one you'll have!) to move 
everything there, then split the previous one into two.
When done, redistribute, as much as possible, the datasets between the 
three pools.


At least in the future you will be able to use two pools as temporary 
backup for the third one if you need to take one offline for any reason.

This trumps all the other advantages and disadvantages IMHO.

Olaf



Il 6 febbraio 2018 21:27:43 CET, Andries Annema 
 ha scritto:


Hi guys,

Could you please give me some advise on the best way to increase
the capacity on my home server (running OmniOS obviously...)?

About four years ago I started designing and building my home
storage server based on a "Coolermaster Stacker" tower case by
retrofitting into it three Norco SS-500 and one SS-300 hotswap
modules, for a total of 18 hard drives.
With this number of drive bays available, I choose to go for
RAIDZ2: three vdevs of six drives each.

Back in 2014, I started with only one vdev of six 4TB WD40EFRX
drives. About a year later, in early 2015, I put another six of
those drives in and expanded the pool. It has been humming happily
ever since. Awesome.

Over time however, the used pool capacity has now gone up to 86%.
It's time to expand again.
I see a number of possible ways to do so:

 1. Get another six 4TB WD40EFRX's and fill the last open bays,
adding a 3rd vdev (capacity +50%).
Pros: these drives are cheap nowadays, much cheaper than they
were three or four years ago.
Cons: six extra spindles will increase electricity cost.
 2. Get six 8TB WD80EFZX's and fill the last open bays, adding a
3rd vdev (capacity +100%).
Pros: huge capacity increase.
Cons: higher upgrade cost than option 1 (due to more expensive
drives). Six extra spindles will increase electricity cost.
 3. Get six 8TB WD80EFZX's and *replace* the first vdev with
bigger disks (capacity +50%).
Pros: amount of spindles doesn't change and thus electricity
cost will more or less remain the same. Replaced drives can be
utilized elsewhere, e.g. for offline pool-backups.
Cons: higher upgrade cost than option 1 (due to more expensive
drives).

The first question that comes to mind for option 2 and 3: are
there any disadvantages to creating a pool out of different
capacity drives? The drives per vdev are identical, it's just the
vdevs within the pool that aren't.

Right now I am leaning towards options 2 or 3, with maybe a little
preference for option 3, I think.

Any thoughts you guys can share on this matter? Would appreciate
it. Thanks!

Regards,

Andries



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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Request advise on pool upgrade

[Andries Annema]

I too would love to hear any other options, if there are any!

Andries


On 2018-02-07 14:41, Jaakko Linnosaari wrote:


On 7 Feb 2018, at 2.02, Bob Friesenhahn > wrote:


There are things you can do after adding another vdev to rebalance 
the data across the vdevs.


What are one’s options here other than zfs send / zfs recv? Is there 
some way to elegantly redistribute blocks ‘in place’?


cheers,
Jaakko


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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Request advise on pool upgrade

[Andries Annema]

Hi Bob,

Appreciate your thoughts!

You are right that I should do something to rebalance the data across 
added space. Moving some datasets with zfs send| zfs receive should do 
the trick, right?


Smaller disks perform better on resilvering, sure. But I suspect there 
comes a time anyhow that I will want to expand once again, so avoiding 
disks larger than 4TB will not go indefinitely. Therefore I was thinking 
I might as well skip the step to add a 3rd vdev out of 4TB drives 
altogether.
Performance is not really an issue either. It has no difficulty 
saturating my gigabit-network as it is, and there are not a lot of users 
it has to serve either.


The proverb you are referring to is a wise one, and from the beginning 
it has been my plan to add a third vdev out of the same drives, but 
looking at the line of drives currently available plus the fact that I 
don't expect to be able to avoid touching the first and second vdev 
forever anyway, I concluded I might as well start rebuilding/upgrading 
the pool in place.


Andries


On 2018-02-07 1:02, Bob Friesenhahn wrote:

On Tue, 6 Feb 2018, Andries Annema wrote:


Right now I am leaning towards options 2 or 3, with maybe a little 
preference for option 3, I think.


Any thoughts you guys can share on this matter? Would appreciate it. 
Thanks!


Since your pool is already excessively full, adding a new vdev would 
result in most of the freshly-written data being written there.  This 
would result in reduced performance as compared to uniformly available 
space in the vdevs.  There are things you can do after adding another 
vdev to rebalance the data across the vdevs.


Smaller size disks are better from a recovery/resilver standpoint. 
More disks are better from a performance standpoint.  Replacing a 
drive with 8TB of data would take a very long time.  4TB disks are 
already huge.  Larger size disks are often slower than smaller disks.


Lastly, there is always the "Let sleeping dogs lie" proverb, which 
suggests that not touching existing disks is less likely to result in 
trouble than adding additional disks.


I prefer option 1 to add a 3rd vdev with the 4TB disks.

Bob


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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Request advise on pool upgrade

[Bob Friesenhahn]

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018, Andries Annema wrote:

You are right that I should do something to rebalance the data across added 
space. Moving some datasets with zfs send| zfs receive should do the trick, 
right?


This should work, keeping in mind that blocks need to be deleted or 
overwritten before there is opportunity to reclaim them.  Snapshots 
will block reclaiming blocks referenced by the snapshot.


Bob
--
Bob Friesenhahn
bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Request advise on pool upgrade

[Jaakko Linnosaari]

> On 7 Feb 2018, at 2.02, Bob Friesenhahn  wrote:
> 
> There are things you can do after adding another vdev to rebalance the data 
> across the vdevs.

What are one’s options here other than zfs send / zfs recv? Is there some way 
to elegantly redistribute blocks ‘in place’?

cheers,
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Request advise on pool upgrade

[Olaf Marzocchi]

You have a big pool with many vdevs and that makes, as you noticed, upgrades 
difficult
I guess you don't need exceptional performances, isn't it?

Go then for 8 TB and option 1, creating a new pool as big as the previous one. 
Use the opportunity (the last one you'll have!) to move everything there, then 
split the previous one into two.
When done, redistribute, as much as possible, the datasets between the three 
pools.

At least in the future you will be able to use two pools as temporary backup 
for the third one if you need to take one offline for any reason.
This trumps all the other advantages and disadvantages IMHO.

Olaf



Il 6 febbraio 2018 21:27:43 CET, Andries Annema  ha 
scritto:
>Hi guys,
>
>Could you please give me some advise on the best way to increase the 
>capacity on my home server (running OmniOS obviously...)?
>
>About four years ago I started designing and building my home storage 
>server based on a "Coolermaster Stacker" tower case by retrofitting
>into 
>it three Norco SS-500 and one SS-300 hotswap modules, for a total of 18
>
>hard drives.
>With this number of drive bays available, I choose to go for RAIDZ2: 
>three vdevs of six drives each.
>
>Back in 2014, I started with only one vdev of six 4TB WD40EFRX drives. 
>About a year later, in early 2015, I put another six of those drives in
>
>and expanded the pool. It has been humming happily ever since. Awesome.
>
>Over time however, the used pool capacity has now gone up to 86%. It's 
>time to expand again.
>I see a number of possible ways to do so:
>
>1. Get another six 4TB WD40EFRX's and fill the last open bays, adding a
>3rd vdev (capacity +50%).
>Pros: these drives are cheap nowadays, much cheaper than they were
>three or four years ago.
>Cons: six extra spindles will increase electricity cost.
> 2. Get six 8TB WD80EFZX's and fill the last open bays, adding a 3rd
>vdev (capacity +100%).
>Pros: huge capacity increase.
>Cons: higher upgrade cost than option 1 (due to more expensive
>drives). Six extra spindles will increase electricity cost.
> 3. Get six 8TB WD80EFZX's and *replace* the first vdev with bigger
>disks (capacity +50%).
>Pros: amount of spindles doesn't change and thus electricity cost
>will more or less remain the same. Replaced drives can be utilized
>elsewhere, e.g. for offline pool-backups.
>Cons: higher upgrade cost than option 1 (due to more expensive drives).
>
>The first question that comes to mind for option 2 and 3: are there any
>
>disadvantages to creating a pool out of different capacity drives? The 
>drives per vdev are identical, it's just the vdevs within the pool that
>
>aren't.
>
>Right now I am leaning towards options 2 or 3, with maybe a little 
>preference for option 3, I think.
>
>Any thoughts you guys can share on this matter? Would appreciate it.
>Thanks!
>
>Regards,
>
>Andries
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