Re: [Oorexx-devel] Trademarks

[Tony Harminc]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2023 at 10:53, Erich Steinböck 
wrote:

> Our docs state "Open Object Rexx™ and ooRexx™ are trademarks of the Rexx
> Language Association".
>
> I've searched several online Trademark Portals (e. g. TESS at
> https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4810:74iqlo.1.1)
> and cannot verify whether this is actually true.
>

Do keep in mind that Trademark <> Registered Trademark. The law varies from
country to country, but isn't much different among "mainstream"
jurisdictions. Anyone can claim a Trademark based on *existing* use in
trade without registering it. Anyone can (try to) register a trademark with
a country's appropriate authorities based on existing *or proposed* use.
Typically the symbols ™and  ® are used for these two different claims. (If
those symbols don't survive email mangling, they are roughly superscript TM
and superscript (R) . ) Neither of these concepts or their symbols should
be confused with copyright © (C) which at least one poster seems to have
done.

A trademark can exist without being findable in any registration database.

Do I have to say that this is not legal advice, IANAL, etc. etc...

Tony H.
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Re: [Oorexx-devel] Trademarks

[J Leslie Turriff]

Trademark does not protect ownership as such, it protects the NAME of 
the product from 
being spoofed by someone as their own.

Leslie

On 2023-01-06 10:19:57 René Jansen wrote:
> Hi Erich,
>
> IBM has stated to have transferred the trademarks to The Rexx Language
> Association. I have heard this statement in person from at least two
> different persons employed by IBM at the time, and in charge of Object
> Rexx. The document signed between RexxLA and IBM has (project phase II)
> “Transfer of intellectual property” (Program Code, […], etc”.
>
> I cannot remember RexxLA ever having followed up to check whether
> everything (including the parts handled by the legal department, which I
> remember as not always the fastest movers in IBM) was formally executed. We
> need to ask the people on the forefront of the open sourcing effort,
> starting 2004, which were Pamela, Chip, Rick, Rony and Mark, if they have
> memories.
>
> Open Object Rexx (including its name and its publisher) is published under
> the CPL; this is a clear document as to the ownership of the contents of
> its repositories.
>
> best regards,
>
> René.
>
> > On 6 Jan 2023, at 11:53, Erich Steinböck 
> > wrote:
> >
> > Our docs state "Open Object Rexx™ and ooRexx™ are trademarks of the Rexx
> > Language Association".
> >
> > I've searched several online Trademark Portals (e. g. TESS at
> > https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4810:74iqlo.1.1)
> > and cannot verify whether this is actually true.
> >
> > Is "Open Object Rexx" and/or "ooRexx" (still) a trademark of RexxLA?
> >
> > Our ooRexx icon, which is set as the rexx.exe icon on Windows also shows
> > "TM". 
- -  
Platform: Linux
Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.4 (x86_64)


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Re: [Oorexx-devel] Version 2: Re: Idea for a new sample demonstrating ADDRESS ... WITH ...

[J Leslie Turriff]

On 2023-01-03 04:25:33 Rony G. Flatscher wrote:
> Thanks to everyone for the comments, information and ideas. Enclosed please
> find the next iteration of that little script. Invoking it with
> "getOoRexxDocs.rex ?" yields the refurbished (hopefully clearer) usage
> text:
>
> getOoRexxDocs.rex [directory [needle]]
>
>a utility to download the ooRexx documentation from
> SourceForge and save them in a subdirectory "docs.V" of the current
> directory where "V" is the specified version (e.g. "5.0.0")
>
>no argument ... download all files from the directory carrying
> the highest version number
>
>? or -h ... show this usage information
>
>directory   ... the SourceForge documentation directory to
> download from, usually named after the ooRexx version (e.g. "4.2.0",
> "5.0.0", "5.1.0beta")
>
>needle  ... only downloads files from the SourceForge
> directory which contain the (caseless) needle in their names (e.g.
> "-html.zip", ".pdf", "ref")
>
> N.B.: This program uses "curl" on all platforms. You can find more
> information on the Internet or
> and.

[snip]

> Any feedback, ideas?
>
> ---rony

I'm curious as to where you obtained the shortcut .resources syntax 
used in the usage
handler in this program?  It is simply
|say .resources~usage
but the Language Reference only shows
|   say .resources[name]~makeString
which is harder to remember.

Leslie
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Re: [Oorexx-devel] Patch for revisionless package and "rexx -v" (meant for official release)

[René Jansen]

Hi Rony,

with the remark that this version identifier is a revision number from a 
specific version management system (Subversion) and has proven difficult to 
reproduce in others.
Also, it adds a build dependency that is only there for one reason (tho’ I 
built a few versions from my updated-to-GA git repo and did not see trouble- 
but formally it is).

René.

> On 6 Jan 2023, at 12:33, Rony G. Flatscher  wrote:
> 
> Just another update in the developer list such that readers know: in 
>  Erich has pointed to 
> his RFE  (which I was 
> not aware of anymore) which brought the revision information into the version 
> string.
> 
> For some reasons I got the impression from comments over time that an 
> official release should not carry any specific revision information in the 
> package names and "rexx[c] -v" which caused me to check out the possibility 
> to do that and which yielded RFE:#815 and the patch.
> 
> As personally I am fine with keeping the revision information in the relased 
> package names and "rexx[c] -v" I will not proceed with RFE #815 any further.
> 
> ---rony
> 
> 
> On 06.01.2023 16:37, Michael Lueck wrote:
>> Greetings ooRexx'ers,
>> 
>> 
>> Rony G. Flatscher wrote:
>>> say .rexxinfo~revision
>>> 
>>> will always give you the revision that was in place when the package got 
>>> created.
>>> 
>>> Not showing the revision number on "rexx -v" is meant to indicate that it 
>>> is an official release version and not an interim build.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In that case, given the availability of .rexxinfo~revision will always be 
>> supported, I would be fine with removing the precise version from "rexx -v".
>> 
>> I appreciate you explaining.
>> 
>> I am thankful, 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Oorexx-devel] Short notice

[René Jansen]

Hi P.O.,

thanks for the heads up and the incredible amount of work you put into this!
ooRexx 5.1.0 is happily humming on all my machines (and several customer 
machines also).

best regards,

René.


> On 6 Jan 2023, at 11:55, P.O. Jonsson  wrote:
> 
> This is just to say that I need to take the machine running the VMs for 
> Jenkins offline. Jenkins itself will be available as well as all the Windows 
> machines, but all Linux/Unix and macOS will be unavailable for a couple of 
> days.
> 
> I will respond sparingly to mail in the coming days.
> 
> Hälsningar/Regards/Grüsse,
> P.O. Jonsson
> oor...@jonases.se 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Oorexx-devel] Trademarks

[René Jansen]

“Open Object Rexx as legal successor and derivative work of Object Rexx”

Having said that, I would like to flag this as a contentious subject, because 
solving this, IMHO, does not serve any useful purpose. Also, we have several 
jurisdictions, with you being in Austria, RexxLA being in North Carolina, me 
being in Amsterdam (except for now, on Aruba with Aruban Law based on Dutch Law 
but for some aspects not on European Law …).

In Dutch Law for example, most of what you write is forever yours, and large 
companies requiring you to sign your code over to them can only in corner cases 
do that legally (if they can show *very* specific assignments and 
compensations) and most of the time they lose in court afterwards anyway. IBM 
in the US must be different, but most of the older code was from Boeblingen. 
Most of it now is Rick’s, and was before that, also.

Although the Board should take decisions about these things, my personal view 
here is that this would only matter if their is some blatant misuse 
(reputation-wise, which is stipulated in the contract we signed with IBM) which 
is not covered by the CPL. For example, everybody is free to fork any open 
source repo and call it something else (and people did, also with ooRexx) with 
the only requirement of including some file, notice or other.

Remembering JOVIAL (Jules’s Own Version of the International Algorithmic 
Language) for Algol 58 shows that the best structure for maintenance of 
language infrastructure eventually can claim the rights - and deliver the 
preferred language for the defense department. (And did the Algol-58 committee 
sue the military-industrial complex? No, that would have been unwise.) 

I think that RexxLA is that structure (we have to keep proving that), but the 
team’s decisions are their own, and we should all be very pleasant about it, 
and thankful for everyone who wants to work on it.

best regards,

René.



> On 6 Jan 2023, at 12:43, Erich Steinböck  wrote:
> 
> Hi René,
> 
>> persons employed by IBM at the time, and in charge of Object Rexx
> but then would IBM trademarks not have been for maybe "oRexx or "Object 
> Rexx", but not "ooRexx" or "Open Object Rexx"?
> 
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Re: [Oorexx-devel] Trademarks

[Erich Steinböck]

Hi René,

persons employed by IBM at the time, and in charge of Object Rexx
>
but then would IBM trademarks not have been for maybe "oRexx or "Object
Rexx", but not "ooRexx" or "Open Object Rexx"?
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Re: [Oorexx-devel] Patch for revisionless package and "rexx -v" (meant for official release)

[Rony G. Flatscher]

Just another update in the developer list such that readers know: in 
 Erich has pointed to his RFE 
 (which I was not aware of anymore) which 
brought the revision information into the version string.


For some reasons I got the impression from comments over time that an official release should not 
carry any specific revision information in the package names and "rexx[c] -v" which caused me to 
check out the possibility to do that and which yielded RFE:#815 and the patch.


As personally I am fine with keeping the revision information in the relased package names and 
"rexx[c] -v" I will not proceed with RFE #815 any further.


---rony


On 06.01.2023 16:37, Michael Lueck wrote:

Greetings ooRexx'ers,


Rony G. Flatscher wrote:

    say .rexxinfo~revision

will always give you the revision that was in place when the package got 
created.

Not showing the revision number on "rexx -v" is meant to indicate that it is an official release 
version and not an interim build.




In that case, given the availability of .rexxinfo~revision will always be supported, I would be 
fine with removing the precise version from "rexx -v".


I appreciate you explaining.

I am thankful, 




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Re: [Oorexx-devel] Trademarks

[René Jansen]

Hi Erich,

IBM has stated to have transferred the trademarks to The Rexx Language 
Association. I have heard this statement in person from at least two different 
persons employed by IBM at the time, and in charge of Object Rexx. The document 
signed between RexxLA and IBM has (project phase II) “Transfer of intellectual 
property” (Program Code, […], etc”.

I cannot remember RexxLA ever having followed up to check whether everything 
(including the parts handled by the legal department, which I remember as not 
always the fastest movers in IBM) was formally executed. We need to ask the 
people on the forefront of the open sourcing effort, starting 2004, which were 
Pamela, Chip, Rick, Rony and Mark, if they have memories.

Open Object Rexx (including its name and its publisher) is published under the 
CPL; this is a clear document as to the ownership of the contents of its 
repositories. 

best regards,

René.

> On 6 Jan 2023, at 11:53, Erich Steinböck  wrote:
> 
> Our docs state "Open Object Rexx™ and ooRexx™ are trademarks of the Rexx 
> Language Association".
> 
> I've searched several online Trademark Portals (e. g. TESS at 
> https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4810:74iqlo.1.1) and 
> cannot verify whether this is actually true.
> 
> Is "Open Object Rexx" and/or "ooRexx" (still) a trademark of RexxLA?
> 
> Our ooRexx icon, which is set as the rexx.exe icon on Windows also shows "TM".
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[Oorexx-devel] Short notice

[P.O. Jonsson]

This is just to say that I need to take the machine running the VMs for Jenkins 
offline. Jenkins itself will be available as well as all the Windows machines, 
but all Linux/Unix and macOS will be unavailable for a couple of days.

I will respond sparingly to mail in the coming days.

Hälsningar/Regards/Grüsse,
P.O. Jonsson
oor...@jonases.se




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[Oorexx-devel] Trademarks

[Erich Steinböck]

Our docs state "Open Object Rexx™ and ooRexx™ are trademarks of the Rexx
Language Association".

I've searched several online Trademark Portals (e. g. TESS at
https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4810:74iqlo.1.1)
and cannot verify whether this is actually true.

Is "Open Object Rexx" and/or "ooRexx" (still) a trademark of RexxLA?

Our ooRexx icon, which is set as the rexx.exe icon on Windows also shows
"TM".
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Re: [Oorexx-devel] Patch for revisionless package and "rexx -v" (meant for official release)

[Michael Lueck]

Greetings ooRexx'ers,


Rony G. Flatscher wrote:

say .rexxinfo~revision

will always give you the revision that was in place when the package got 
created.

Not showing the revision number on "rexx -v" is meant to indicate that it is an 
official release version and not an interim build.




In that case, given the availability of .rexxinfo~revision will always be supported, I 
would be fine with removing the precise version from "rexx -v".

I appreciate you explaining.

I am thankful,

--
Michael Lueck
Lueck Data Systems
http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/


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Re: [Oorexx-devel] Patch for revisionless package and "rexx -v" (meant for official release)

[Rony G. Flatscher]

On 06.01.2023 16:02, Michael Lueck wrote:

Greetings ooRexx'ers,

From these below two example outputs...

Rony G. Flatscher wrote:


Here the output for the revisionless versions:

G:\oorexx.tmp\oorexxBuild\tmp\ooRexx-5.1.0.windows.x86_64-portable-release>rxenv
 rexx -v
    *Open Object Rexx Version 5.1.0*
    Build date: Jan  6 2023
    Addressing mode: 64
    Copyright (c) 1995, 2004 IBM Corporation. All rights reserved.
    Copyright (c) 2005-2023 Rexx Language Association. All rights reserved.
    This program and the accompanying materials are made available under the 
terms
    of the Common Public License v1.0 which accompanies this distribution or at
https://www.oorexx.org/license.html


Here the output for the revision versions:

G:\oorexx.tmp\oorexxBuild\tmp\ooRexx-5.1.0-12616.windows.x86_64-portable-release>rxenv
 rexx -v
    *Open Object Rexx Version 5.1.0 r12616*
    Build date: Jan  6 2023
    Addressing mode: 64
    Copyright (c) 1995, 2004 IBM Corporation. All rights reserved.
    Copyright (c) 2005-2023 Rexx Language Association. All rights reserved.
    This program and the accompanying materials are made available under the 
terms
    of the Common Public License v1.0 which accompanies this distribution or at
https://www.oorexx.org/license.html



I prefer the version which states:

 *Open Object Rexx Version 5.1.0 r12616*
 Build date: Jan  6 2023

The 5.1.0 is the "major version" and the "r12616" is the most precise version 
identification.


   say .rexxinfo~revision

will always give you the revision that was in place when the package got 
created.

Not showing the revision number on "rexx -v" is meant to indicate that it is an official release 
version and not an interim build.


---rony

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Re: [Oorexx-devel] Patch for revisionless package and "rexx -v" (meant for official release)

[Michael Lueck]

Greetings ooRexx'ers,

From these below two example outputs...

Rony G. Flatscher wrote:


Here the output for the revisionless versions:


G:\oorexx.tmp\oorexxBuild\tmp\ooRexx-5.1.0.windows.x86_64-portable-release>rxenv
 rexx -v
*Open Object Rexx Version 5.1.0*
Build date: Jan  6 2023
Addressing mode: 64
Copyright (c) 1995, 2004 IBM Corporation. All rights reserved.
Copyright (c) 2005-2023 Rexx Language Association. All rights reserved.
This program and the accompanying materials are made available under the 
terms
of the Common Public License v1.0 which accompanies this distribution or at
https://www.oorexx.org/license.html


Here the output for the revision versions:


G:\oorexx.tmp\oorexxBuild\tmp\ooRexx-5.1.0-12616.windows.x86_64-portable-release>rxenv
 rexx -v
*Open Object Rexx Version 5.1.0 r12616*
Build date: Jan  6 2023
Addressing mode: 64
Copyright (c) 1995, 2004 IBM Corporation. All rights reserved.
Copyright (c) 2005-2023 Rexx Language Association. All rights reserved.
This program and the accompanying materials are made available under the 
terms
of the Common Public License v1.0 which accompanies this distribution or at
https://www.oorexx.org/license.html



I prefer the version which states:

 *Open Object Rexx Version 5.1.0 r12616*
 Build date: Jan  6 2023

The 5.1.0 is the "major version" and the "r12616" is the most precise version 
identification.

I am thankful,

--
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[Oorexx-devel] Patch for revisionless package and "rexx -v" (meant for official release)

[Rony G. Flatscher]

 includes a patch developed and tested on 
Windows, catering for the Unix versions as well.


To create revisionless packages and have "rexx -v" not display the revision, one needs to supply a 
new option when running cmake add the following definition in addition


 -DUSE_REVISION=0

Note: the revision information is still in the package as ooRexx uses it 
internally.

---

Here the produced filenames (with and without revision information):

   ooRexx-5.1.0.windows.x86_64.exe
   ooRexx-5.1.0-12616.windows.x86_64.exe
   ooRexx-5.1.0.windows.x86_64-portable-release-runtime.zip
   ooRexx-5.1.0.windows.x86_64-portable-release.zip
   ooRexx-5.1.0-12616.windows.x86_64-portable-release-runtime.zip
   ooRexx-5.1.0-12616.windows.x86_64-portable-release.zip

Here the output for the revisionless versions:

   
G:\oorexx.tmp\oorexxBuild\tmp\ooRexx-5.1.0.windows.x86_64-portable-release>rxenv
 rexx -v
   *Open Object Rexx Version 5.1.0*
   Build date: Jan  6 2023
   Addressing mode: 64
   Copyright (c) 1995, 2004 IBM Corporation. All rights reserved.
   Copyright (c) 2005-2023 Rexx Language Association. All rights reserved.
   This program and the accompanying materials are made available under the 
terms
   of the Common Public License v1.0 which accompanies this distribution or at
   https://www.oorexx.org/license.html

   
G:\oorexx.tmp\oorexxBuild\tmp\ooRexx-5.1.0.windows.x86_64-portable-release>rxenv
 rexx testoorexx.rex
   At   : 2023-01-06T15:33:13.463000
   source   : WindowsNT COMMAND 
G:\oorexx.tmp\oorexxBuild\tmp\ooRexx-5.1.0.windows.x86_64-portable-release\testoorexx.rex
   version  : REXX-ooRexx_5.1.0(MT)_64-bit 6.05 6 Jan 2023
   .RexxInfo:
1: ARCHITECTURE .: 64
2: CASESENSITIVEFILES: 0
3: DATE .: 6 Jan 2023
4: DEBUG : 0
5: DIGITS ...: 9
6: DIRECTORYSEPARATOR: \
7: ENDOFLINE : "0D0A"x
8: EXECUTABLE ...: 
G:\oorexx.tmp\oorexxBuild\tmp\ooRexx-5.1.0.windows.x86_64-portable-release\bin\rexx.exe
9: FORM .: SCIENTIFIC
   10: FUZZ .: 0
   11: INTERNALDIGITS ...: 18
   12: INTERNALMAXNUMBER : 999,999,999,999,999,999
   13: INTERNALMINNUMBER : -999,999,999,999,999,999
   14: LANGUAGELEVEL : 6.05
   15: LIBRARYPATH ..: 
G:\oorexx.tmp\oorexxBuild\tmp\ooRexx-5.1.0.windows.x86_64-portable-release\bin
   16: MAJORVERSION .: 5
   17: MAXARRAYSIZE .: 100,000,000,000,000,000
   18: MAXEXPONENT ..: 999,999,999
   19: MAXPATHLENGTH : 259
   20: MINEXPONENT ..: -999,999,999
   21: MODIFICATION .: 0
   22: NAME .: REXX-ooRexx_5.1.0(MT)_64-bit 6.05 6 Jan 2023
   23: PACKAGE ..: The REXX Package
   24: PATHSEPARATOR : ;
   25: PLATFORM .: WindowsNT
   26: RELEASE ..: 1
   27: REVISION .: 12616
   28: VERSION ..: 5.1.0

   G:\oorexx.tmp\oorexxBuild\tmp\ooRexx-5.1.0.windows.x86_64-portable-release>

Here the output for the revision versions:

   
G:\oorexx.tmp\oorexxBuild\tmp\ooRexx-5.1.0-12616.windows.x86_64-portable-release>rxenv
 rexx -v
   *Open Object Rexx Version 5.1.0 r12616*
   Build date: Jan  6 2023
   Addressing mode: 64
   Copyright (c) 1995, 2004 IBM Corporation. All rights reserved.
   Copyright (c) 2005-2023 Rexx Language Association. All rights reserved.
   This program and the accompanying materials are made available under the 
terms
   of the Common Public License v1.0 which accompanies this distribution or at
   https://www.oorexx.org/license.html

   
G:\oorexx.tmp\oorexxBuild\tmp\ooRexx-5.1.0-12616.windows.x86_64-portable-release>rxenv
 rexx testoorexx.rex
   At   : 2023-01-06T15:36:00.534000
   source   : WindowsNT COMMAND 
G:\oorexx.tmp\oorexxBuild\tmp\ooRexx-5.1.0-12616.windows.x86_64-portable-release\testoorexx.rex
   version  : REXX-ooRexx_5.1.0(MT)_64-bit 6.05 6 Jan 2023
   .RexxInfo:
1: ARCHITECTURE .: 64
2: CASESENSITIVEFILES: 0
3: DATE .: 6 Jan 2023
4: DEBUG : 0
5: DIGITS ...: 9
6: DIRECTORYSEPARATOR: \
7: ENDOFLINE : "0D0A"x
8: EXECUTABLE ...: 
G:\oorexx.tmp\oorexxBuild\tmp\ooRexx-5.1.0-12616.windows.x86_64-portable-release\bin\rexx.exe
9: FORM .: SCIENTIFIC
   10: FUZZ .: 0
   11: INTERNALDIGITS ...: 18
   12: INTERNALMAXNUMBER : 999,999,999,999,999,999
   13: INTERNALMINNUMBER : -999,999,999,999,999,999
   14: LANGUAGELEVEL : 6.05
   15: LIBRARYPATH ..: 
G:\oorexx.tmp\oorexxBuild\tmp\ooRexx-5.1.0-12616.windows.x86_64-portable-release\bin
   16: MAJORVERSION .: 5