Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-15 Thread Mark Miesfeld 
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Oliver Sims <
oliver.s...@simsassociates.co.uk> wrote:

>  Any chance of somewhow providing a reference to Chapter 2 of the Rexx
> Programmer Guide?
>

Sure there is a chance.

I've been working on this over the weekend.  When I get everything working
I was going to post to the list and describe things and then people could
decide what the actual content should be.

Essentially, there can be 2 check boxes on the Finish page, initially
unchecked.  If the user checks any of them it produces an action when the
user pushes the Finish button.  The labels can be any text.

In addition, there can be an underlined link to a file or URL on the page.

Right now I have one check box that says Create Desktop Icon and the icon
opens up the Open Object Rexx Start Menu folder.

The second check box can do whatever is decided on, or be left out.

The underlined link can open whatever is decided on, or be left out.

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Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-15 Thread Oliver Sims 
Any chance of somewhow providing a reference to Chapter 2 of the Rexx
Programmer Guide? This is a good "starter" for any newbie, and saves them
having to fossick around to find the right documentation. For example, I
think this is the only place that mentions that the file extension of an
ooRexx program should be ".rex".
 
Again, I'm thinking of the bloke who wanted instant gratification...
 
--
Oliver Sims
 


  _  

From: Oliver Sims [mailto:oliver.s...@simsassociates.co.uk] 
Sent: 12 December 2013 22:07
To: 'Open Object Rexx Developer Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.


Sounds good to me too!
 
Oliver

  _  

From: Rick McGuire [mailto:object.r...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 12 December 2013 18:05
To: Open Object Rexx Developer Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.


Sounds fine with me.  I suggest opening an RFE for it so you have something
to add to the changes file. 


Rick



On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Mark Miesfeld  wrote:


On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 11:47 PM, Mike Cowlishaw 
wrote:



That makes very good sense ...



How about creating a link on the desktop that links to the ooRexx menu
folder? 



I tried that yesterday, it is relatively easy to add to the current
installer.  


The last 'Finish' page will have a Create Desktop Icon check box which by
default is unckecked.  If the user checks it, a shortcut icon is created on
the Desktop which, if double-clicked, opens up the ooRexx menu folder.

If Rick and David are okay with that, I'll add it to the 4.2.0 release.

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Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-12 Thread Oliver Sims 
Sounds good to me too!
 
Oliver

  _  

From: Rick McGuire [mailto:object.r...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 12 December 2013 18:05
To: Open Object Rexx Developer Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.


Sounds fine with me.  I suggest opening an RFE for it so you have something
to add to the changes file. 

Rick


On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Mark Miesfeld  wrote:


On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 11:47 PM, Mike Cowlishaw 
wrote:



That makes very good sense ...


How about creating a link on the desktop that links to the ooRexx menu
folder? 


I tried that yesterday, it is relatively easy to add to the current
installer.  

The last 'Finish' page will have a Create Desktop Icon check box which by
default is unckecked.  If the user checks it, a shortcut icon is created on
the Desktop which, if double-clicked, opens up the ooRexx menu folder.

If Rick and David are okay with that, I'll add it to the 4.2.0 release.

--
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Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-12 Thread Mark Miesfeld 
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Rick McGuire  wrote:

> Sounds fine with me.  I suggest opening an RFE for it so you have
> something to add to the changes file.
>

Yes I was going to open an RFE.  I didn't mention it because I was
practicing my Walter persona - being brief to the point of obscurity.  ;-)

(Walter that is only a joke, I'm just teasing you a little bit.)

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Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-12 Thread Rick McGuire 
Sounds fine with me.  I suggest opening an RFE for it so you have something
to add to the changes file.

Rick


On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Mark Miesfeld  wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 11:47 PM, Mike Cowlishaw wrote:
>
>>  That makes very good sense ...
>>
>>  How about creating a link on the desktop that links to the ooRexx menu
>> folder?
>>
>>
> I tried that yesterday, it is relatively easy to add to the current
> installer.
>
> The last 'Finish' page will have a Create Desktop Icon check box which by
> default is unckecked.  If the user checks it, a shortcut icon is created on
> the Desktop which, if double-clicked, opens up the ooRexx menu folder.
>
> If Rick and David are okay with that, I'll add it to the 4.2.0 release.
>
> --
> Mark Miesfeld
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-12 Thread Mark Miesfeld 
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 11:47 PM, Mike Cowlishaw wrote:

>  That makes very good sense ...
>
>  How about creating a link on the desktop that links to the ooRexx menu
> folder?
>
>
I tried that yesterday, it is relatively easy to add to the current
installer.

The last 'Finish' page will have a Create Desktop Icon check box which by
default is unckecked.  If the user checks it, a shortcut icon is created on
the Desktop which, if double-clicked, opens up the ooRexx menu folder.

If Rick and David are okay with that, I'll add it to the 4.2.0 release.

--
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Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-11 Thread Mike Cowlishaw 
That makes very good sense ...


How about creating a link on the desktop that links to the ooRexx menu folder?
Opening it depicts all the ooRexx menu entries including the documentation
subfolder and the like. One could add links to Internet resources as Mike
suggested and more. If the user does not want that folder link on the desktop he
can delete it. 

---rony

Rony G. Flatscher (mobil/e)

Am 11.12.2013 um 22:20 schrieb Mark Miesfeld :



On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Mike Cowlishaw  wrote:




 


 
But think 'out of the box' for a minute.   The icon does not have to start a
program.  It could take one to the ooRexx website, for example, Or to a
tutorial.  Or to a collection of useful classes and programs.  Or all of the
above.


I did think about a tutorial, but I was still thinking about starting a tutorial
we wrote and included as an application.

A link to a website is a good idea.  Linking to a page that was or include a
list of how to get started things makes sense to me.

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Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-11 Thread Rony G. Flatscher 
How about creating a link on the desktop that links to the ooRexx menu folder? 
Opening it depicts all the ooRexx menu entries including the documentation 
subfolder and the like. One could add links to Internet resources as Mike 
suggested and more. If the user does not want that folder link on the desktop 
he can delete it. 

---rony

Rony G. Flatscher (mobil/e)

Am 11.12.2013 um 22:20 schrieb Mark Miesfeld :

> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Mike Cowlishaw  wrote:
> 
>  
>  
> But think 'out of the box' for a minute.   The icon does not have to start a 
> program.  It could take one to the ooRexx website, for example, Or to a 
> tutorial.  Or to a collection of useful classes and programs.  Or all of the 
> above.
> 
> I did think about a tutorial, but I was still thinking about starting a 
> tutorial we wrote and included as an application.
> 
> A link to a website is a good idea.  Linking to a page that was or include a 
> list of how to get started things makes sense to me.
> 
> --
> Mark Miesfeld
> 
> --
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Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-11 Thread Mark Miesfeld 
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Mike Cowlishaw  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> But think 'out of the box' for a minute.   The icon does not have to start
> a program.  It could take one to the ooRexx website, for example, Or to a
> tutorial.  Or to a collection of useful classes and programs.  Or all of
> the above.
>
>
I did think about a tutorial, but I was still thinking about starting a
tutorial we wrote and included as an application.

A link to a website is a good idea.  Linking to a page that was or include
a list of how to get started things makes sense to me.

--
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Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-11 Thread Mike Cowlishaw 
 

I'm happy with an icon on the desktop .. I can easily delete it, or (more
usually) move it to a folder on my desktop where I'll be able to find it easily
again.


That's good, as I first said, I'm not saying we shouldn't add a desktop icon.
But, I'm still not sure what the icon should point to?
 
(See cross-post.   [nite!]  -- Mike)

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Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-11 Thread Mike Cowlishaw 

 

The real question in my mind is an icon for what?

Typically an application adds a desktop icon to start the application.  An icon
to start rexx.exe is pointless.  Staring the interpreter without feeding it a
program does nothing.  We could educate users that drag and dropping a Rexx
program file on the icon will execute the program.  In which case the icon would
serve some purpose.  But, that is not going to give people unfamiliar with Rexx
a better intro to the advantages of Rexx.

Or we could add an icon to ooRexxTry.rex or rexxtry.rex, which could be useful
to some people that are familar with rexxtry.rex to begin with.  But, again I
don't see how that gives someone unfamiliar with Rexx a better introduction to
its advantages.
 
It seems to me, that an installation of ooRexx is just not the type of install
where installing a desktop icon serves much purpose.
 
Very good question.   
 
But think 'out of the box' for a minute.   The icon does not have to start a
program.  It could take one to the ooRexx website, for example, Or to a
tutorial.  Or to a collection of useful classes and programs.  Or all of the
above.
 
'Out of the box' ... almost certainly the person who just did that install has
an internet connection (they just downloaded ooRexx, probably).  Let them use
it.
 
Mike

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Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-11 Thread Mark Miesfeld 
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 1:02 PM, Mike Cowlishaw  wrote:

>  I'm with Oliver on this one ...
>
>  Applications that unilaterally add an icon to my Desktop drive me nuts.
>  It's my desktop, damn it, I only what stuff on there that I determine are
> useful enough to be handy.
>
> Agree in principle, but also applications that offer one the option of
> adding an icon are welcome.
>
> Yes, I would surely make it optional in the installer.



>
> The installer could certainly put an icon on the desktop, but I fail to
> see why that is any better than the current entries in the Open Object Rexx
> Start Menu Group.  Your friend would still need to bother himself to double
> click on it.
>
>>
>>
>> Umm .. this is likely to be way down in a list of everything the user has
>> ever installed.  There's no easy way to get to it (in Windows) other than
>> Start then All Programs and keep scrolling down until you find a
>> highlighted thing that has the right name/brand mark.  Since this does not
>> work well for most applications, people (OK, me, for a start) rarely use
>> that start menu list unless truely lost.   That list, for me, has 120-140
>> items and many of those have sub-menus.
>>
>> I'm happy with an icon on the desktop .. I can easily delete it, or (more
>> usually) move it to a folder on my desktop where I'll be able to find it
>> easily again.
>>
>
That's good, as I first said, I'm not saying we shouldn't add a desktop
icon.  But, I'm still not sure what the icon should point to?

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Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-11 Thread hakan 
May I suggest that when installation is finnished, bring up the ooRexx ref 
guide (hopefully pdf reader is installed) or the readMe pdf, for those that 
doesn't bother to look for what was installed.
Maybe  a new installation option instead  'tickbox - I want to know what to do 
after install'  and if ticked, bring up the Ref guide after install -:/
/hex





- Ursprungligt Meddelande -
Från: Mark Miesfeld 
Till: Open Object Rexx Developer Mailing List 

Kopia:
Datum: onsdag, 11 december 2013 21:03
Ämne: Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Oliver Sims  
wrote:
The other day I was enthusing about the advantages of ooRexx to a chap who was 
well-versed in computer languages.



I'm not at all trying to discourage you from coming up with a better intro, but 
this sort of reminds me of the saying: you can lead a horse to water, but you 
can't make him drink.

The next time we spoke, he said, 
"Well, I downloaded ooRexx and nothing happened. No icon on the desktop, no 
nothing.



Well that's simply not true.  It is correct that no desktop icon is created, 
but to say nothing happens is fallacious.  The installer outputs a couple of 
hundred lines showing exactly what is happening.  It creates a program group in 
the Start Menu for ooRexx with links to the documentation and menu items to 
execute a number of sample programs.

Waste of time imho." 
I did try to convince him to look at "Try Rexx", but he couldn't be bothered: 
"Nah", he said, "If it's any good it would have told me about when I installed 
it." 



Again, that's not true, the installer did tell him about it:


Create folder: C:\Rexx\ooRexx
Extract: rexxtry.rex... 100%
Extract: ooRexxTry.rex... 100%
Output folder: C:\Rexx\ooRexx\samples\oodialog\ooRexxTry
Extract: ooRexxTry.rex... 100%
Output folder: C:\Rexx\ooRexx\samples\oodialog\ooRexxTry\doc
Extract: ooRexxTry.pdf... 100%
Extract: ooRexxTry.pdf... 100%
Create shortcut: C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Open 
Object Rexx\Documentation\ooRexxTry Reference.lnk


This reaction has lead me to believe that, if we want to spread the ooRexx 
word, we need a better way of showing people its advantages. For example, put 
an icon on the desktop that fires up "Try Rexx". (But why not "Try ooRexx?")



The installer could certainly put an icon on the desktop, but I fail to see why 
that is any better than the current entries in the Open Object Rexx Start Menu 
Group.  Your friend would still need to bother himself to double click on it.


But, again, I'm not arguing against adding a desktop icon.


Btw, I tried "Try Rexx (GUI)" and typed "dir" as suggested in the command 
prompt, but when I ran it I got an error. 



Hmm, if it didn't work that would be a bug and you should open a bug and we'll 
fix it.  However it works fine for me in 4.2.0.  You have to type "dir" in the 
code window and then you have to click the Run button.  The program itself 
includes help that explains this, so I think it is actually a pretty good Rexx 
program.  If you install Excel, you can't expect to be able to use it without a 
little research.

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Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-11 Thread Mark Miesfeld 
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Rick McGuire wrote:

> Applications that unilaterally add an icon to my Desktop drive me nuts.
>  It's my desktop, damn it, I only what stuff on there that I determine are
> useful enough to be handy.
>

The installer would have a check box to install or not install a desktop
icon, so that it wasn't unilateral.

The real question in my mind is an icon for what?

Typically an application adds a desktop icon to start the application.  An
icon to start rexx.exe is pointless.  Staring the interpreter without
feeding it a program does nothing.  We could educate users that drag and
dropping a Rexx program file on the icon will execute the program.  In
which case the icon would serve some purpose.  But, that is not going to
give people unfamiliar with Rexx a better intro to the advantages of Rexx.

Or we could add an icon to ooRexxTry.rex or rexxtry.rex, which could be
useful to some people that are familar with rexxtry.rex to begin with.
 But, again I don't see how that gives someone unfamiliar with Rexx a
better introduction to its advantages.

It seems to me, that an installation of ooRexx is just not the type of
install where installing a desktop icon serves much purpose.

--
Mark Miesfeld
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Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-11 Thread Mike Cowlishaw 
I'm with Oliver on this one ...

Applications that unilaterally add an icon to my Desktop drive me nuts.  It's my
desktop, damn it, I only what stuff on there that I determine are useful enough
to be handy.  
 
Agree in principle, but also applications that offer one the option of adding an
icon are welcome.   And a bit saddened that you wouldn't determine ooRexx as
useful... :-)
 
 
The installer could certainly put an icon on the desktop, but I fail to see why
that is any better than the current entries in the Open Object Rexx Start Menu
Group.  Your friend would still need to bother himself to double click on it.


 
Umm .. this is likely to be way down in a list of everything the user has ever
installed.  There's no easy way to get to it (in Windows) other than Start then
All Programs and keep scrolling down until you find a highlighted thing that has
the right name/brand mark.  Since this does not work well for most applications,
people (OK, me, for a start) rarely use that start menu list unless truely lost.
That list, for me, has 120-140 items and many of those have sub-menus.
 
I'm happy with an icon on the desktop .. I can easily delete it, or (more
usually) move it to a folder on my desktop where I'll be able to find it easily
again.
 
Mike

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Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-11 Thread Rick McGuire 
Applications that unilaterally add an icon to my Desktop drive me nuts.
 It's my desktop, damn it, I only what stuff on there that I determine are
useful enough to be handy.

Rick


On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Mark Miesfeld  wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Oliver Sims <
> oliver.s...@simsassociates.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>  The other day I was enthusing about the advantages of ooRexx to a chap
>> who was well-versed in computer languages.
>>
>
> I'm not at all trying to discourage you from coming up with a better
> intro, but this sort of reminds me of the saying: you can lead a horse to
> water, but you can't make him drink.
>
>
>> The next time we spoke, he said,
>> "Well, I downloaded ooRexx and nothing happened. No icon on the desktop,
>> no nothing.
>>
>
> Well that's simply not true.  It is correct that no desktop icon is
> created, but to say nothing happens is fallacious.  The installer outputs a
> couple of hundred lines showing exactly what is happening.  It creates a
> program group in the Start Menu for ooRexx with links to the documentation
> and menu items to execute a number of sample programs.
>
>
>> Waste of time imho."
>> I did try to convince him to look at "Try Rexx", but he couldn't be
>> bothered: "Nah", he said, "If it's any good it would have told me about
>> when I installed it."
>>
>
> Again, that's not true, the installer did tell him about it:
>
> Create folder: C:\Rexx\ooRexx
> Extract: rexxtry.rex... 100%
> Extract: ooRexxTry.rex... 100%
> Output folder: C:\Rexx\ooRexx\samples\oodialog\ooRexxTry
> Extract: ooRexxTry.rex... 100%
> Output folder: C:\Rexx\ooRexx\samples\oodialog\ooRexxTry\doc
> Extract: ooRexxTry.pdf... 100%
> Extract: ooRexxTry.pdf... 100%
> Create shortcut: C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Open
> Object Rexx\Documentation\ooRexxTry Reference.lnk
>
>
>>
>> This reaction has lead me to believe that, if we want to spread the
>> ooRexx word, we need a better way of showing people its advantages. For
>> example, put an icon on the desktop that fires up "Try Rexx". (But why not
>> "Try ooRexx?")
>>
>
> The installer could certainly put an icon on the desktop, but I fail to
> see why that is any better than the current entries in the Open Object Rexx
> Start Menu Group.  Your friend would still need to bother himself to double
> click on it.
>
> But, again, I'm not arguing against adding a desktop icon.
>
>
>>
>> Btw, I tried "Try Rexx (GUI)" and typed "dir" as suggested in the command
>> prompt, but when I ran it I got an error.
>>
>
> Hmm, if it didn't work that would be a bug and you should open a bug and
> we'll fix it.  However it works fine for me in 4.2.0.  You have to type
> "dir" in the code window and then you have to click the Run button.  The
> program itself includes help that explains this, so I think it is actually
> a pretty good Rexx program.  If you install Excel, you can't expect to be
> able to use it without a little research.
>
> --
> Mark Miesfeld
>
>
>
> --
> Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT
> organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance
> affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your
> Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics
> Pro!
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>
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Re: [Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-11 Thread Mark Miesfeld 
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Oliver Sims <
oliver.s...@simsassociates.co.uk> wrote:

>  The other day I was enthusing about the advantages of ooRexx to a chap
> who was well-versed in computer languages.
>

I'm not at all trying to discourage you from coming up with a better intro,
but this sort of reminds me of the saying: you can lead a horse to water,
but you can't make him drink.


> The next time we spoke, he said,
> "Well, I downloaded ooRexx and nothing happened. No icon on the desktop,
> no nothing.
>

Well that's simply not true.  It is correct that no desktop icon is
created, but to say nothing happens is fallacious.  The installer outputs a
couple of hundred lines showing exactly what is happening.  It creates a
program group in the Start Menu for ooRexx with links to the documentation
and menu items to execute a number of sample programs.


> Waste of time imho."
> I did try to convince him to look at "Try Rexx", but he couldn't be
> bothered: "Nah", he said, "If it's any good it would have told me about
> when I installed it."
>

Again, that's not true, the installer did tell him about it:

Create folder: C:\Rexx\ooRexx
Extract: rexxtry.rex... 100%
Extract: ooRexxTry.rex... 100%
Output folder: C:\Rexx\ooRexx\samples\oodialog\ooRexxTry
Extract: ooRexxTry.rex... 100%
Output folder: C:\Rexx\ooRexx\samples\oodialog\ooRexxTry\doc
Extract: ooRexxTry.pdf... 100%
Extract: ooRexxTry.pdf... 100%
Create shortcut: C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Open
Object Rexx\Documentation\ooRexxTry Reference.lnk


>
> This reaction has lead me to believe that, if we want to spread the ooRexx
> word, we need a better way of showing people its advantages. For example,
> put an icon on the desktop that fires up "Try Rexx". (But why not "Try
> ooRexx?")
>

The installer could certainly put an icon on the desktop, but I fail to see
why that is any better than the current entries in the Open Object Rexx
Start Menu Group.  Your friend would still need to bother himself to double
click on it.

But, again, I'm not arguing against adding a desktop icon.


>
> Btw, I tried "Try Rexx (GUI)" and typed "dir" as suggested in the command
> prompt, but when I ran it I got an error.
>

Hmm, if it didn't work that would be a bug and you should open a bug and
we'll fix it.  However it works fine for me in 4.2.0.  You have to type
"dir" in the code window and then you have to click the Run button.  The
program itself includes help that explains this, so I think it is actually
a pretty good Rexx program.  If you install Excel, you can't expect to be
able to use it without a little research.

--
Mark Miesfeld
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[Oorexx-devel] ooRexx does nothing visible when installed.

2013-12-11 Thread Oliver Sims 
The other day I was enthusing about the advantages of ooRexx to a chap who
was well-versed in computer languages.
The next time we spoke, he said, 
"Well, I downloaded ooRexx and nothing happened. No icon on the desktop, no
nothing. Waste of time imho." 
I did try to convince him to look at "Try Rexx", but he couldn't be
bothered: "Nah", he said, "If it's any good it would have told me about when
I installed it." 
 
This reaction has lead me to believe that, if we want to spread the ooRexx
word, we need a better way of showing people its advantages. For example,
put an icon on the desktop that fires up "Try Rexx". (But why not "Try
ooRexx?")
 
Btw, I tried "Try Rexx (GUI)" and typed "dir" as suggested in the command
prompt, but when I ran it I got an error. While this did not surprise me, it
would certainly fail the test of least asonishment for a newbie to ooRexx.
 
Now I'm not volunteering at this time to provide a better intro to a
potential ooRexx user. But if no-one fixes this before I've finished the
ooDialog Guide, then I hereby volunteer to have a go at it then. Assuming
it's agreed that a fix is needed of course.
 
--
Oliver Sims
 
 
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