Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts - AND books?
I didn't think that's what you meant, it's just what popped in my head. Reference work has taught me to never assume I do know what folks mean. :) On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Walz, Jennifer jlw...@asbury.edu wrote: All – Well, I am sorry that I was not obvious enough.But CERTAINLY I would not want to delete anything with items / volumes / copies attached. That is just silly. But I seriously don’t care about the bib / item / copy etc when it CAN be deleted. I don’t want “ historical” data. The whole point of deletion is to delete it! So, make it go away. Otherwise, call it something else and “park” it in a hidden status or something. Don’t call it deleting, if you are actually NOT deleting it in actual fact. When I delete something it goes away – off the server, out of the data record, gone. And now that I know that patron records are not actually deleted either??!! UGH!! You are killing me.I like clean data files. And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming… Jennifer -- Jennifer Walz, MLS - Head of Research Distance Services Kinlaw Library - *Asbury University* One Macklem Drive, Wilmore, KY 40390 859-858-3511 ext. 2269 jlw...@asbury.edu *From:* Open-ils-general [mailto: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] *On Behalf Of *Rogan Hamby *Sent:* Tuesday, August 04, 2015 4:42 PM *To:* Evergreen Discussion Group *Subject:* Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts - AND books? Based on another reply I think she meant more of permanently deleting than cascading a delete. I wasn't clear on that initially. I think there would be real dangers in the same scenarios Elaine brought up. As for permanently obliterating other kinds of records I don't think there's one answer that is right for everyone. I can appreciate the view point of it's gone I don't need it anymore, it's a waste of bits in storage and another pass through the tables but I like looking at historical data so I'm very hesitant to toss any of it. Evergreen's default don't throw anything away behavior appeals to me. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Hardy, Elaine eha...@georgialibraries.org wrote: No. Just No. Unless it was totally configurable and could never, ever show up if we didn’t want it. Ever. The thought of having to correct the resultant mess if someone could delete at the bib record level while vols and copies are attached in a consortium database will give me nightmares. I know that it would be tied to permissions but still. No. The few number of times a cataloger could use it on a record with just their library’s holdings attached would not be worth the possibility of someone incorrectly deleting a record with 1000s of items attached. Perhaps what Jennifer meant was to truly delete a bibliographic record after one has deleted all copies and volumes attached? However, as Jason points out with patron info, totally deleting bib records, volumes, and copies would also negatively impact referential integrity in the database. It is also nice to be able to undelete a bib record if needed. *Elaine* J. Elaine Hardy PINES Collaborative Projects Manager Georgia Public Library Service 1800 Century Place, Ste 150 Atlanta, Ga. 30345-4304 404.235.7128 404.235.7201, fax eha...@georgialibraries.org www.georgialibraries.org www.georgialibraries.org/pines *From:* Open-ils-general [mailto: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] *On Behalf Of *Rogan Hamby *Sent:* Tuesday, August 04, 2015 3:40 PM *To:* Evergreen Discussion Group *Subject:* Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts - AND books? Like delete the bib records and let it caascade down and delete all associated volumes and copies? On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 3:34 PM, Walz, Jennifer jlw...@asbury.edu wrote: All – Boy, it sure would be nice if we had the same options with books. (i.e. bib records, item records, copy records, and the like) J Please? Thanks! Jennifer -- Jennifer Walz, MLS - Head of Ebsco Irritations Kinlaw Library - *Asbury University* One Macklem Drive, Wilmore, KY 40390 859-858-3511 ext. 2269 jlw...@asbury.edu *From:* Open-ils-general [mailto: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] *On Behalf Of *Rogan Hamby *Sent:* Tuesday, August 04, 2015 1:33 PM *To:* Evergreen Discussion Group *Subject:* Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.” ― C.S. Lewis http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library
[OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts
Our old ILS would not allow you to remove a patron until all outstanding bills, holds, and checkouts were cleared. We were thrilled that Evergreen would simply allow you to remove the patron. However, I have heard from various sources that, while EG will allow you to remove a patron with impunity, it is not good practice to remove a patron with outstanding transactions and bills. Can anyone clarify this? Thank you, Scott Scott Thomas, MLS Head of Information Technologies and Technical Services Scranton Public Library Lackawanna County Library System 2006 N. Main Ave. Scranton, PA 18508 Ph: 570-207-2379 Fx: 570-348-3020 Email: sc...@albright.orgmailto:sc...@albright.org
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts
There are a few different kinds of deleting in Evergreen. One is to turn on the deleted flag on the account. That doesn't do much other than hide the account from the staff client pulling it up and is relatively harmless. The other kind of deleting is obliterating the account. This is the delete option that is on the other menu in the staff client and comes up with this warning: Completely OBLITERATE this patron account, including bills, payments, bookbags, etc? This is IRREVERSIBLE. And it has a checkbox. The good? It deletes it and it's gone forever. The bad? As the message warns, gone forever is also anything tied to it. My accountants would throw a fit at bills and payments and other records disappearing from the system and we're audited every other year. So, whether or not it's bad will depend on your circumstances, your accounting environment, etc... As a result it can also throw off counts of circulations, holds, etc... if you want to go back and run numbers on old data sets. If we want to truly remove a patron I run an anonymization script that strips out their address except for zip code, names, phone numbers, email, etc and leaves a generic patron in place but leaves all of their associated records. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Scott Thomas sc...@albright.org wrote: Our old ILS would not allow you to remove a patron until all outstanding bills, holds, and checkouts were cleared. We were thrilled that Evergreen would simply allow you to remove the patron. However, I have heard from various sources that, while EG will allow you to remove a patron with impunity, it is not good practice to remove a patron with outstanding transactions and bills. Can anyone clarify this? Thank you, Scott Scott Thomas, MLS Head of Information Technologies and Technical Services Scranton Public Library Lackawanna County Library System 2006 N. Main Ave. Scranton, PA 18508 Ph: 570-207-2379 Fx: 570-348-3020 Email: sc...@albright.org -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.” ― C.S. Lewis http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts - AND books?
Like delete the bib records and let it caascade down and delete all associated volumes and copies? On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 3:34 PM, Walz, Jennifer jlw...@asbury.edu wrote: All – Boy, it sure would be nice if we had the same options with books. (i.e. bib records, item records, copy records, and the like) J Please? Thanks! Jennifer -- Jennifer Walz, MLS - Head of Ebsco Irritations Kinlaw Library - *Asbury University* One Macklem Drive, Wilmore, KY 40390 859-858-3511 ext. 2269 jlw...@asbury.edu *From:* Open-ils-general [mailto: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] *On Behalf Of *Rogan Hamby *Sent:* Tuesday, August 04, 2015 1:33 PM *To:* Evergreen Discussion Group *Subject:* Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts There are a few different kinds of deleting in Evergreen. One is to turn on the deleted flag on the account. That doesn't do much other than hide the account from the staff client pulling it up and is relatively harmless. The other kind of deleting is obliterating the account. This is the delete option that is on the other menu in the staff client and comes up with this warning: Completely OBLITERATE this patron account, including bills, payments, bookbags, etc? This is IRREVERSIBLE. And it has a checkbox. The good? It deletes it and it's gone forever. The bad? As the message warns, gone forever is also anything tied to it. My accountants would throw a fit at bills and payments and other records disappearing from the system and we're audited every other year. So, whether or not it's bad will depend on your circumstances, your accounting environment, etc... As a result it can also throw off counts of circulations, holds, etc... if you want to go back and run numbers on old data sets. If we want to truly remove a patron I run an anonymization script that strips out their address except for zip code, names, phone numbers, email, etc and leaves a generic patron in place but leaves all of their associated records. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Scott Thomas sc...@albright.org wrote: Our old ILS would not allow you to remove a patron until all outstanding bills, holds, and checkouts were cleared. We were thrilled that Evergreen would simply allow you to remove the patron. However, I have heard from various sources that, while EG will allow you to remove a patron with impunity, it is not good practice to remove a patron with outstanding transactions and bills. Can anyone clarify this? Thank you, Scott Scott Thomas, MLS Head of Information Technologies and Technical Services Scranton Public Library Lackawanna County Library System 2006 N. Main Ave. Scranton, PA 18508 Ph: 570-207-2379 Fx: 570-348-3020 Email: sc...@albright.org -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.” ― C.S. Lewis http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.” ― C.S. Lewis http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts
The short answer to both questions is, yes. Obliterating a patron wipes associated records. So for example circ records require a link back to a patron account, you can't not have it. So, to delete a patron account you have to delete those circ records and that will affect reports later. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 3:26 PM, Scott Thomas sc...@albright.org wrote: Hi Rogan, Thank you for replying. One thing you mentioned has piqued my interest. It might be easier if I gave a scenario instead of trying to describe what I mean. Say, on January 2, 2016, I run a report on circulation for 2015 and then, a month later, delete many patrons some of whom had checked out materials in 2015. If I ran the same 2015 report again after the deletions, would the numbers be different because the patrons were purged? In other words, when a patron is deleted, do their countable circ transactions go with them? Scott *From:* Open-ils-general [mailto: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] *On Behalf Of *Rogan Hamby *Sent:* Tuesday, August 04, 2015 1:33 PM *To:* Evergreen Discussion Group open-ils-general@list.georgialibraries.org *Subject:* Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts There are a few different kinds of deleting in Evergreen. One is to turn on the deleted flag on the account. That doesn't do much other than hide the account from the staff client pulling it up and is relatively harmless. The other kind of deleting is obliterating the account. This is the delete option that is on the other menu in the staff client and comes up with this warning: Completely OBLITERATE this patron account, including bills, payments, bookbags, etc? This is IRREVERSIBLE. And it has a checkbox. The good? It deletes it and it's gone forever. The bad? As the message warns, gone forever is also anything tied to it. My accountants would throw a fit at bills and payments and other records disappearing from the system and we're audited every other year. So, whether or not it's bad will depend on your circumstances, your accounting environment, etc... As a result it can also throw off counts of circulations, holds, etc... if you want to go back and run numbers on old data sets. If we want to truly remove a patron I run an anonymization script that strips out their address except for zip code, names, phone numbers, email, etc and leaves a generic patron in place but leaves all of their associated records. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Scott Thomas sc...@albright.org wrote: Our old ILS would not allow you to remove a patron until all outstanding bills, holds, and checkouts were cleared. We were thrilled that Evergreen would simply allow you to remove the patron. However, I have heard from various sources that, while EG will allow you to remove a patron with impunity, it is not good practice to remove a patron with outstanding transactions and bills. Can anyone clarify this? Thank you, Scott Scott Thomas, MLS Head of Information Technologies and Technical Services Scranton Public Library Lackawanna County Library System 2006 N. Main Ave. Scranton, PA 18508 Ph: 570-207-2379 Fx: 570-348-3020 Email: sc...@albright.org -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.” ― C.S. Lewis http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.” ― C.S. Lewis http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts
Quoting Rogan Hamby rogan.ha...@yclibrary.net: The short answer to both questions is, yes. Obliterating a patron wipes associated records. So for example circ records require a link back to a patron account, you can't not have it. So, to delete a patron account you have to delete those circ records and that will affect reports later. Technically they are not wiped. The transactions are moved to another user. In the case of deletion, they move to the user with id of 1, the default admin user. So any reports that depend on user-related data will still lose information. You can't actually delete this stuff because of referential integrity in the database. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 3:26 PM, Scott Thomas sc...@albright.org wrote: Hi Rogan, Thank you for replying. One thing you mentioned has piqued my interest. It might be easier if I gave a scenario instead of trying to describe what I mean. Say, on January 2, 2016, I run a report on circulation for 2015 and then, a month later, delete many patrons some of whom had checked out materials in 2015. If I ran the same 2015 report again after the deletions, would the numbers be different because the patrons were purged? In other words, when a patron is deleted, do their countable circ transactions go with them? Scott *From:* Open-ils-general [mailto: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] *On Behalf Of *Rogan Hamby *Sent:* Tuesday, August 04, 2015 1:33 PM *To:* Evergreen Discussion Group open-ils-general@list.georgialibraries.org *Subject:* Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts There are a few different kinds of deleting in Evergreen. One is to turn on the deleted flag on the account. That doesn't do much other than hide the account from the staff client pulling it up and is relatively harmless. The other kind of deleting is obliterating the account. This is the delete option that is on the other menu in the staff client and comes up with this warning: Completely OBLITERATE this patron account, including bills, payments, bookbags, etc? This is IRREVERSIBLE. And it has a checkbox. The good? It deletes it and it's gone forever. The bad? As the message warns, gone forever is also anything tied to it. My accountants would throw a fit at bills and payments and other records disappearing from the system and we're audited every other year. So, whether or not it's bad will depend on your circumstances, your accounting environment, etc... As a result it can also throw off counts of circulations, holds, etc... if you want to go back and run numbers on old data sets. If we want to truly remove a patron I run an anonymization script that strips out their address except for zip code, names, phone numbers, email, etc and leaves a generic patron in place but leaves all of their associated records. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Scott Thomas sc...@albright.org wrote: Our old ILS would not allow you to remove a patron until all outstanding bills, holds, and checkouts were cleared. We were thrilled that Evergreen would simply allow you to remove the patron. However, I have heard from various sources that, while EG will allow you to remove a patron with impunity, it is not good practice to remove a patron with outstanding transactions and bills. Can anyone clarify this? Thank you, Scott Scott Thomas, MLS Head of Information Technologies and Technical Services Scranton Public Library Lackawanna County Library System 2006 N. Main Ave. Scranton, PA 18508 Ph: 570-207-2379 Fx: 570-348-3020 Email: sc...@albright.org -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.” ― C.S. Lewis http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.” ― C.S. Lewis http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis -- Jason Stephenson Assistant Director for Technology Services Merrimack Valley Library Consortium 4 High ST, Suite 175 North Andover, MA 01845 Phone: 978-557-5891 Email: jstephen...@mvlc.org
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Staff login - multiple windows logins
Hi, This time, I've got an answer that might help you. If you build custom clients for your location you can specify the permachine target when doing the make command to build the client. If you don't build your own, all the above does is copy a file into the staff client preferences directory that tells Evergreen not to store preferences in the user's home directory. You can achieve the same result by getting the file Open-ILS/xul/staff_client/external/aa_permachine.js http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=blob_plain;f=Open-ILS/xul/staff_client/external/aa_per_machine.js;hb=HEAD from the Evergreen source and copying it to the default preferences directory after installing Evergreen. On Windows, this will typically be either C:\Program Files\Evergreen...\defaults\preferences or C:\Program Files (x86)\Evergreen...\defaults\preferences For that to work, you will also likely need to change the permission on the preferences directory in Windows to allow users to write to it. HtH, Jason Quoting Walz, Jennifer jlw...@asbury.edu: All - I think I have asked this before - or a variation thereof. I was just wondering if maybe someone has come up with a creative solution since before. So, we have student workers in another department in our building, who will be checking in and out equipment. Each student will be logging into the checkout computer with their campus login. But we DON'T want to create multiple WORKSTATIONS for each instance of Evergreen in every single windows login. Is this possible? I notice that with the - profilemanager option for Evergreen, that you can set up different workstations / profiles. That is wonderful!But do you think that profile list could then be in a root directory on the computer so that all Windows logins could point to it and every instance of Evergreen would see the SAME workstation / profile? I'm just fishing in the dark here. We really really don't want is to create 20 different workstation setups for this checkout point. But that is what it has come down to. Any other creative solutions out there? I would really love to hear them. Thanks! Jennifer -- Jennifer Walz, MLS - Head of Research Distance Services Kinlaw Library - Asbury University One Macklem Drive, Wilmore, KY 40390 859-858-3511 ext. 2269 jlw...@asbury.edu -- Jason Stephenson Assistant Director for Technology Services Merrimack Valley Library Consortium 4 High ST, Suite 175 North Andover, MA 01845 Phone: 978-557-5891 Email: jstephen...@mvlc.org
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts - AND books?
All – Well, I am sorry that I was not obvious enough.But CERTAINLY I would not want to delete anything with items / volumes / copies attached. That is just silly. But I seriously don’t care about the bib / item / copy etc when it CAN be deleted. I don’t want “ historical” data. The whole point of deletion is to delete it! So, make it go away. Otherwise, call it something else and “park” it in a hidden status or something. Don’t call it deleting, if you are actually NOT deleting it in actual fact. When I delete something it goes away – off the server, out of the data record, gone. And now that I know that patron records are not actually deleted either??!! UGH!! You are killing me.I like clean data files. And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming… Jennifer -- Jennifer Walz, MLS - Head of Research Distance Services Kinlaw Library - Asbury University One Macklem Drive, Wilmore, KY 40390 859-858-3511 ext. 2269 jlw...@asbury.edu From: Open-ils-general [mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of Rogan Hamby Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 4:42 PM To: Evergreen Discussion Group Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts - AND books? Based on another reply I think she meant more of permanently deleting than cascading a delete. I wasn't clear on that initially. I think there would be real dangers in the same scenarios Elaine brought up. As for permanently obliterating other kinds of records I don't think there's one answer that is right for everyone. I can appreciate the view point of it's gone I don't need it anymore, it's a waste of bits in storage and another pass through the tables but I like looking at historical data so I'm very hesitant to toss any of it. Evergreen's default don't throw anything away behavior appeals to me. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Hardy, Elaine eha...@georgialibraries.orgmailto:eha...@georgialibraries.org wrote: No. Just No. Unless it was totally configurable and could never, ever show up if we didn’t want it. Ever. The thought of having to correct the resultant mess if someone could delete at the bib record level while vols and copies are attached in a consortium database will give me nightmares. I know that it would be tied to permissions but still. No. The few number of times a cataloger could use it on a record with just their library’s holdings attached would not be worth the possibility of someone incorrectly deleting a record with 1000s of items attached. Perhaps what Jennifer meant was to truly delete a bibliographic record after one has deleted all copies and volumes attached? However, as Jason points out with patron info, totally deleting bib records, volumes, and copies would also negatively impact referential integrity in the database. It is also nice to be able to undelete a bib record if needed. Elaine J. Elaine Hardy PINES Collaborative Projects Manager Georgia Public Library Service 1800 Century Place, Ste 150 Atlanta, Ga. 30345-4304 404.235.7128tel:404.235.7128 404.235.7201tel:404.235.7201, fax eha...@georgialibraries.orgmailto:eha...@georgialibraries.org www.georgialibraries.orghttp://www.georgialibraries.org www.georgialibraries.org/pineshttp://www.georgialibraries.org/pines From: Open-ils-general [mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.orgmailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of Rogan Hamby Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 3:40 PM To: Evergreen Discussion Group Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts - AND books? Like delete the bib records and let it caascade down and delete all associated volumes and copies? On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 3:34 PM, Walz, Jennifer jlw...@asbury.edumailto:jlw...@asbury.edu wrote: All – Boy, it sure would be nice if we had the same options with books. (i.e. bib records, item records, copy records, and the like) ☺ Please? Thanks! Jennifer -- Jennifer Walz, MLS - Head of Ebsco Irritations Kinlaw Library - Asbury University One Macklem Drive, Wilmore, KY 40390 859-858-3511 ext. 2269tel:859-858-3511%20ext.%202269 jlw...@asbury.edumailto:jlw...@asbury.edu From: Open-ils-general [mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.orgmailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of Rogan Hamby Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 1:33 PM To: Evergreen Discussion Group Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.” ― C.S. Lewishttp://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts - AND books?
Based on another reply I think she meant more of permanently deleting than cascading a delete. I wasn't clear on that initially. I think there would be real dangers in the same scenarios Elaine brought up. As for permanently obliterating other kinds of records I don't think there's one answer that is right for everyone. I can appreciate the view point of it's gone I don't need it anymore, it's a waste of bits in storage and another pass through the tables but I like looking at historical data so I'm very hesitant to toss any of it. Evergreen's default don't throw anything away behavior appeals to me. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Hardy, Elaine eha...@georgialibraries.org wrote: No. Just No. Unless it was totally configurable and could never, ever show up if we didn’t want it. Ever. The thought of having to correct the resultant mess if someone could delete at the bib record level while vols and copies are attached in a consortium database will give me nightmares. I know that it would be tied to permissions but still. No. The few number of times a cataloger could use it on a record with just their library’s holdings attached would not be worth the possibility of someone incorrectly deleting a record with 1000s of items attached. Perhaps what Jennifer meant was to truly delete a bibliographic record after one has deleted all copies and volumes attached? However, as Jason points out with patron info, totally deleting bib records, volumes, and copies would also negatively impact referential integrity in the database. It is also nice to be able to undelete a bib record if needed. *Elaine* J. Elaine Hardy PINES Collaborative Projects Manager Georgia Public Library Service 1800 Century Place, Ste 150 Atlanta, Ga. 30345-4304 404.235.7128 404.235.7201, fax eha...@georgialibraries.org www.georgialibraries.org www.georgialibraries.org/pines *From:* Open-ils-general [mailto: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] *On Behalf Of *Rogan Hamby *Sent:* Tuesday, August 04, 2015 3:40 PM *To:* Evergreen Discussion Group *Subject:* Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts - AND books? Like delete the bib records and let it caascade down and delete all associated volumes and copies? On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 3:34 PM, Walz, Jennifer jlw...@asbury.edu wrote: All – Boy, it sure would be nice if we had the same options with books. (i.e. bib records, item records, copy records, and the like) J Please? Thanks! Jennifer -- Jennifer Walz, MLS - Head of Ebsco Irritations Kinlaw Library - *Asbury University* One Macklem Drive, Wilmore, KY 40390 859-858-3511 ext. 2269 jlw...@asbury.edu *From:* Open-ils-general [mailto: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] *On Behalf Of *Rogan Hamby *Sent:* Tuesday, August 04, 2015 1:33 PM *To:* Evergreen Discussion Group *Subject:* Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.” ― C.S. Lewis http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts
There are other issues that can come up with reporting and aged circulations but those are more workflow issues than technical ones. All of this being a very long way of saying there are pros and cons with every choice. :) On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Jason Etheridge ja...@esilibrary.com wrote: Thank you for replying. One thing you mentioned has piqued my interest. It might be easier if I gave a scenario instead of trying to describe what I mean. Say, on January 2, 2016, I run a report on circulation for 2015 and then, a month later, delete many patrons some of whom had checked out materials in 2015. If I ran the same 2015 report again after the deletions, would the numbers be different because the patrons were purged? In other words, when a patron is deleted, do their countable circ transactions go with them? There is a trigger on the circulation table that will convert circulations being deleted into aged (essentially anonymous) circulations. Depending on how you write your report, you can get some statistics that way. -- Jason Etheridge | Community and Migration Manager | Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts | phone: 1-877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457) | email: ja...@esilibrary.com | web: http://www.esilibrary.com -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.” ― C.S. Lewis http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts
Hi Rogan, Thank you for replying. One thing you mentioned has piqued my interest. It might be easier if I gave a scenario instead of trying to describe what I mean. Say, on January 2, 2016, I run a report on circulation for 2015 and then, a month later, delete many patrons some of whom had checked out materials in 2015. If I ran the same 2015 report again after the deletions, would the numbers be different because the patrons were purged? In other words, when a patron is deleted, do their countable circ transactions go with them? Scott From: Open-ils-general [mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of Rogan Hamby Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 1:33 PM To: Evergreen Discussion Group open-ils-general@list.georgialibraries.org Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts There are a few different kinds of deleting in Evergreen. One is to turn on the deleted flag on the account. That doesn't do much other than hide the account from the staff client pulling it up and is relatively harmless. The other kind of deleting is obliterating the account. This is the delete option that is on the other menu in the staff client and comes up with this warning: Completely OBLITERATE this patron account, including bills, payments, bookbags, etc? This is IRREVERSIBLE. And it has a checkbox. The good? It deletes it and it's gone forever. The bad? As the message warns, gone forever is also anything tied to it. My accountants would throw a fit at bills and payments and other records disappearing from the system and we're audited every other year. So, whether or not it's bad will depend on your circumstances, your accounting environment, etc... As a result it can also throw off counts of circulations, holds, etc... if you want to go back and run numbers on old data sets. If we want to truly remove a patron I run an anonymization script that strips out their address except for zip code, names, phone numbers, email, etc and leaves a generic patron in place but leaves all of their associated records. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Scott Thomas sc...@albright.orgmailto:sc...@albright.org wrote: Our old ILS would not allow you to remove a patron until all outstanding bills, holds, and checkouts were cleared. We were thrilled that Evergreen would simply allow you to remove the patron. However, I have heard from various sources that, while EG will allow you to remove a patron with impunity, it is not good practice to remove a patron with outstanding transactions and bills. Can anyone clarify this? Thank you, Scott Scott Thomas, MLS Head of Information Technologies and Technical Services Scranton Public Library Lackawanna County Library System 2006 N. Main Ave. Scranton, PA 18508 Ph: 570-207-2379tel:570-207-2379 Fx: 570-348-3020tel:570-348-3020 Email: sc...@albright.orgmailto:sc...@albright.org -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.” ― C.S. Lewishttp://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts
Thank you for replying. One thing you mentioned has piqued my interest. It might be easier if I gave a scenario instead of trying to describe what I mean. Say, on January 2, 2016, I run a report on circulation for 2015 and then, a month later, delete many patrons some of whom had checked out materials in 2015. If I ran the same 2015 report again after the deletions, would the numbers be different because the patrons were purged? In other words, when a patron is deleted, do their countable circ transactions go with them? There is a trigger on the circulation table that will convert circulations being deleted into aged (essentially anonymous) circulations. Depending on how you write your report, you can get some statistics that way. -- Jason Etheridge | Community and Migration Manager | Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts | phone: 1-877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457) | email: ja...@esilibrary.com | web: http://www.esilibrary.com
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts - AND books?
All – Boy, it sure would be nice if we had the same options with books. (i.e. bib records, item records, copy records, and the like) ☺ Please? Thanks! Jennifer -- Jennifer Walz, MLS - Head of Ebsco Irritations Kinlaw Library - Asbury University One Macklem Drive, Wilmore, KY 40390 859-858-3511 ext. 2269 jlw...@asbury.edu From: Open-ils-general [mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of Rogan Hamby Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 1:33 PM To: Evergreen Discussion Group Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts There are a few different kinds of deleting in Evergreen. One is to turn on the deleted flag on the account. That doesn't do much other than hide the account from the staff client pulling it up and is relatively harmless. The other kind of deleting is obliterating the account. This is the delete option that is on the other menu in the staff client and comes up with this warning: Completely OBLITERATE this patron account, including bills, payments, bookbags, etc? This is IRREVERSIBLE. And it has a checkbox. The good? It deletes it and it's gone forever. The bad? As the message warns, gone forever is also anything tied to it. My accountants would throw a fit at bills and payments and other records disappearing from the system and we're audited every other year. So, whether or not it's bad will depend on your circumstances, your accounting environment, etc... As a result it can also throw off counts of circulations, holds, etc... if you want to go back and run numbers on old data sets. If we want to truly remove a patron I run an anonymization script that strips out their address except for zip code, names, phone numbers, email, etc and leaves a generic patron in place but leaves all of their associated records. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Scott Thomas sc...@albright.orgmailto:sc...@albright.org wrote: Our old ILS would not allow you to remove a patron until all outstanding bills, holds, and checkouts were cleared. We were thrilled that Evergreen would simply allow you to remove the patron. However, I have heard from various sources that, while EG will allow you to remove a patron with impunity, it is not good practice to remove a patron with outstanding transactions and bills. Can anyone clarify this? Thank you, Scott Scott Thomas, MLS Head of Information Technologies and Technical Services Scranton Public Library Lackawanna County Library System 2006 N. Main Ave. Scranton, PA 18508 Ph: 570-207-2379tel:570-207-2379 Fx: 570-348-3020tel:570-348-3020 Email: sc...@albright.orgmailto:sc...@albright.org -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.” ― C.S. Lewishttp://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts
That's good to know, I thought they were all deleted. For me it's still an issue as it means we would lose statistical data associated with the user as it relates to transactions. For my needs anonymizing identifiable information is better. ---Sent from Boxer | http://getboxer.com Quoting Rogan Hamby rogan.ha...@yclibrary.net: The short answer to both questions is, yes. Obliterating a patron wipes associated records. So for example circ records require a link back to a patron account, you can't not have it. So, to delete a patron account you have to delete those circ records and that will affect reports later. Technically they are not wiped. The transactions are moved to another user. In the case of deletion, they move to the user with id of 1, the default admin user. So any reports that depend on user-related data will still lose information. You can't actually delete this stuff because of referential integrity in the database. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 3:26 PM, Scott Thomas sc...@albright.org wrote: Hi Rogan, Thank you for replying. One thing you mentioned has piqued my interest. It might be easier if I gave a scenario instead of trying to describe what I mean. Say, on January 2, 2016, I run a report on circulation for 2015 and then, a month later, delete many patrons some of whom had checked out materials in 2015. If I ran the same 2015 report again after the deletions, would the numbers be different because the patrons were purged? In other words, when a patron is deleted, do their countable circ transactions go with them? Scott *From:* Open-ils-general [mailto: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] *On Behalf Of *Rogan Hamby *Sent:* Tuesday, August 04, 2015 1:33 PM *To:* Evergreen Discussion Group open-ils-general@list.georgialibraries.org *Subject:* Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Deleting Patron Accounts There are a few different kinds of deleting in Evergreen. One is to turn on the deleted flag on the account. That doesn't do much other than hide the account from the staff client pulling it up and is relatively harmless. The other kind of deleting is obliterating the account. This is the delete option that is on the other menu in the staff client and comes up with this warning: Completely OBLITERATE this patron account, including bills, payments, bookbags, etc? This is IRREVERSIBLE. And it has a checkbox. The good? It deletes it and it's gone forever. The bad? As the message warns, gone forever is also anything tied to it. My accountants would throw a fit at bills and payments and other records disappearing from the system and we're audited every other year. So, whether or not it's bad will depend on your circumstances, your accounting environment, etc... As a result it can also throw off counts of circulations, holds, etc... if you want to go back and run numbers on old data sets. If we want to truly remove a patron I run an anonymization script that strips out their address except for zip code, names, phone numbers, email, etc and leaves a generic patron in place but leaves all of their associated records. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Scott Thomas sc...@albright.org wrote: Our old ILS would not allow you to remove a patron until all outstanding bills, holds, and checkouts were cleared. We were thrilled that Evergreen would simply allow you to remove the patron. However, I have heard from various sources that, while EG will allow you to remove a patron with impunity, it is not good practice to remove a patron with outstanding transactions and bills. Can anyone clarify this? Thank you, Scott Scott Thomas, MLS Head of Information Technologies and Technical Services Scranton Public Library Lackawanna County Library System 2006 N. Main Ave. Scranton, PA 18508 Ph: 570-207-2379 Fx: 570-348-3020 Email: sc...@albright.org -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.” ― C.S. Lewis http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.” ― C.S. Lewis http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis -- Jason Stephenson Assistant Director for Technology Services Merrimack Valley Library Consortium 4 High ST, Suite 175 North Andover, MA 01845 Phone: 978-557-5891 Email: jstephen...@mvlc.org
[OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Staff login - multiple windows logins
All - I think I have asked this before - or a variation thereof. I was just wondering if maybe someone has come up with a creative solution since before. So, we have student workers in another department in our building, who will be checking in and out equipment. Each student will be logging into the checkout computer with their campus login. But we DON'T want to create multiple WORKSTATIONS for each instance of Evergreen in every single windows login. Is this possible? I notice that with the - profilemanager option for Evergreen, that you can set up different workstations / profiles. That is wonderful!But do you think that profile list could then be in a root directory on the computer so that all Windows logins could point to it and every instance of Evergreen would see the SAME workstation / profile? I'm just fishing in the dark here. We really really don't want is to create 20 different workstation setups for this checkout point. But that is what it has come down to. Any other creative solutions out there? I would really love to hear them. Thanks! Jennifer -- Jennifer Walz, MLS - Head of Research Distance Services Kinlaw Library - Asbury University One Macklem Drive, Wilmore, KY 40390 859-858-3511 ext. 2269 jlw...@asbury.edu
