Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Staff client software vs. web-based interface
On Sep 20, 2012, at 10:33 , Thomas Berezansky wrote: The majority of the benefit to an actual client compared to a web based interface is in printing. Web browsers don't allow web pages to control the printer. Beyond that we get our own menus and toolbars, for example. CSS styles for print offer pretty good control over print output. This presumes that the screen styles and HTML are structured with print output as a consideration. Last time I really worked with this was probably half a decade ago or so, but at that time I was able to generate custom headers for print output, control font display, exclude page sections from printing and even print out full URL link text for links using at that time draft implementations of CSS 3. Is that what you meant by controlling the printer? Otherwise there is always the option of generating PDF output. Besides what Thomas mentioned, are there any features that are possible with a client, but impossible though an admin website in a regular web browser? Alexey Quoting Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich alexey.la...@mnsu.edu: Hello. I was browsing the http://evergreen-ils.org/downloads.php page and some linked areas, looking at all the different staff clients that are available and not available, and it got me thinking... Based on the fact that the Evergreen project releases come with the staff client only for Windows, does that make Evergreen Windows-only software? I see that there are some instructions for Mac and Linux on the downloads page in various states of freshness. I also see that Sitka provides pre-built clients, which is great, thanks. In terms of answering prospective customer questions, I think my answer is Windows-only, right? What is the reason for lack of official releases of staff client software for Mac OS (and Linux)? Is it strategy, because there is no need, or like with some other things, not enough volunteers? I was also curious if anyone could outline for me some benefits of using staff client software vs. a web-based administrative interface. I can easily think of some disadvantages, like lack of cross-platform compatibility, maintenance overhead, additional dependencies, but I'm guessing there are some advantages as well? Thanks. Alexey Lazar PALS Information System Developer and Integrator 507-389-2907 http://www.mnpals.org/ Alexey Lazar PALS Information System Developer and Integrator 507-389-2907 http://www.mnpals.org/
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Staff client software vs. web-based interface
Besides what Thomas mentioned, are there any features that are possible with a client, but impossible though an admin website in a regular web browser? Originally, there was a sentiment against web apps by the librarians who built Evergreen, so we faked things with xulrunner, and got some web goodness like HTTP and CSS but with native looking widgets. I think apps like gmail and google maps have turned people around on that. At the time, offline mode, local storage, decent audio prompts, prompt-free printing, thought of incremental printing, and thought of interfacing with other peripherals like cash drawers were also concerns. The web has since bridged a lot of the gap here, but XUL was a contender for being that bridge a long time ago. :-/ I'm ready for the next big thing (putty+ncurses, hooah), but it'd take a lot of effort/resources to replace what we have. -- Jason
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Staff client software vs. web-based interface
When I say controlling the printer I mean configuring the printer settings for a given print job and printing without user interaction. Web browsers don't like pages printing themselves without users being prompted. Thomas Berezansky Merrimack Valley Library Consortium Quoting Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich alexey.la...@mnsu.edu: On Sep 20, 2012, at 10:33 , Thomas Berezansky wrote: The majority of the benefit to an actual client compared to a web based interface is in printing. Web browsers don't allow web pages to control the printer. Beyond that we get our own menus and toolbars, for example. CSS styles for print offer pretty good control over print output. This presumes that the screen styles and HTML are structured with print output as a consideration. Last time I really worked with this was probably half a decade ago or so, but at that time I was able to generate custom headers for print output, control font display, exclude page sections from printing and even print out full URL link text for links using at that time draft implementations of CSS 3. Is that what you meant by controlling the printer? Otherwise there is always the option of generating PDF output. Besides what Thomas mentioned, are there any features that are possible with a client, but impossible though an admin website in a regular web browser? Alexey Quoting Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich alexey.la...@mnsu.edu: Hello. I was browsing the http://evergreen-ils.org/downloads.php page and some linked areas, looking at all the different staff clients that are available and not available, and it got me thinking... Based on the fact that the Evergreen project releases come with the staff client only for Windows, does that make Evergreen Windows-only software? I see that there are some instructions for Mac and Linux on the downloads page in various states of freshness. I also see that Sitka provides pre-built clients, which is great, thanks. In terms of answering prospective customer questions, I think my answer is Windows-only, right? What is the reason for lack of official releases of staff client software for Mac OS (and Linux)? Is it strategy, because there is no need, or like with some other things, not enough volunteers? I was also curious if anyone could outline for me some benefits of using staff client software vs. a web-based administrative interface. I can easily think of some disadvantages, like lack of cross-platform compatibility, maintenance overhead, additional dependencies, but I'm guessing there are some advantages as well? Thanks. Alexey Lazar PALS Information System Developer and Integrator 507-389-2907 http://www.mnpals.org/ Alexey Lazar PALS Information System Developer and Integrator 507-389-2907 http://www.mnpals.org/
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Staff client software vs. web-based interface
At this point I believe we are packaging Linux clients. Mac clients are harder, as I don't think we can currently build them on Linux easily. A lack of test machines for those of us working on client building is another problem. Also, when building Evergreen itself later versions do custom client building, which includes a generic works with pre-installed XULRunner packaging in addition to the Windows and Linux clients. The majority of the benefit to an actual client compared to a web based interface is in printing. Web browsers don't allow web pages to control the printer. Beyond that we get our own menus and toolbars, for example. Note that the client is a XULRunner app, which means that in many ways it is similar to Firefox in general. Many of the admin interfaces can, if you know where to go, be used from within a web browser as well. Thomas Berezansky Merrimack Valley Library Consortium Quoting Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich alexey.la...@mnsu.edu: Hello. I was browsing the http://evergreen-ils.org/downloads.php page and some linked areas, looking at all the different staff clients that are available and not available, and it got me thinking... Based on the fact that the Evergreen project releases come with the staff client only for Windows, does that make Evergreen Windows-only software? I see that there are some instructions for Mac and Linux on the downloads page in various states of freshness. I also see that Sitka provides pre-built clients, which is great, thanks. In terms of answering prospective customer questions, I think my answer is Windows-only, right? What is the reason for lack of official releases of staff client software for Mac OS (and Linux)? Is it strategy, because there is no need, or like with some other things, not enough volunteers? I was also curious if anyone could outline for me some benefits of using staff client software vs. a web-based administrative interface. I can easily think of some disadvantages, like lack of cross-platform compatibility, maintenance overhead, additional dependencies, but I'm guessing there are some advantages as well? Thanks. Alexey Lazar PALS Information System Developer and Integrator 507-389-2907 http://www.mnpals.org/
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Staff client software vs. web-based interface
Hi, On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich alexey.la...@mnsu.edu wrote: What is the reason for lack of official releases of staff client software for Mac OS (and Linux)? Is it strategy, because there is no need, or like with some other things, not enough volunteers? I don't think it's a strategy per se, just more a lack of volunteers. If somebody were to step forward and volunteer to package OS X clients as part of the release-cutting process, I think that would be welcomed with open arms. Even better would be if somebody could submit a patch to automate building them. Triple-word-score if it could be done without requiring an OS X box. Similiarly, if somebody were to step up and get involved in packing the Linux clients for various distributions, that would be great. The technical bar is lower, as Thomas' good work with the staff client autoupdate mechanism means that it's become quite easy to build Linux clients; at this point the main question is whether somebody is up to maintaining and testing .deb or ..rpm. Regards, Galen -- Galen Charlton Director of Implementation Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts email: g...@esilibrary.com direct: +1 770-709-5581 cell: +1 404-984-4366 skype: gmcharlt web:http://www.esilibrary.com/ Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org http://evergreen-ils.org
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Staff client software vs. web-based interface
Hi all, I've got an OSX iMac to help volunteer with! I can't say I'm a OSX guru, but really good at following instructions! If anyone wants to work with me, I could probably devote some hours to helping out, at least testing, etc. I think I've got Xcode (?) installed somewhere on my iMac Tony *** Tony Bandy to...@ohionet.org OHIONET 1500 West Lane Ave. Columbus, OH 43221-3975 1-800-686-8975 x19 On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Galen Charlton g...@esilibrary.com wrote: Hi, On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich alexey.la...@mnsu.edu wrote: What is the reason for lack of official releases of staff client software for Mac OS (and Linux)? Is it strategy, because there is no need, or like with some other things, not enough volunteers? I don't think it's a strategy per se, just more a lack of volunteers. If somebody were to step forward and volunteer to package OS X clients as part of the release-cutting process, I think that would be welcomed with open arms. Even better would be if somebody could submit a patch to automate building them. Triple-word-score if it could be done without requiring an OS X box. Similiarly, if somebody were to step up and get involved in packing the Linux clients for various distributions, that would be great. The technical bar is lower, as Thomas' good work with the staff client autoupdate mechanism means that it's become quite easy to build Linux clients; at this point the main question is whether somebody is up to maintaining and testing .deb or ..rpm. Regards, Galen -- Galen Charlton Director of Implementation Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts email: g...@esilibrary.com direct: +1 770-709-5581 cell: +1 404-984-4366 skype: gmcharlt web:http://www.esilibrary.com/ Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org http://evergreen-ils.org
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Staff client software vs. web-based interface
I should note that I'm running the Evergreen 2.1.1 client under Wineskin Winery on Mac OS X Mountain Lion and it seems to work fine. In fact, it is more stable running in this mode than trying to use one of the Mac clients I've found from other folks. -Vicki On Sep 20, 2012, at 10:38 AM, Tony Bandy to...@ohionet.org wrote: Hi all, I've got an OSX iMac to help volunteer with! I can't say I'm a OSX guru, but really good at following instructions! If anyone wants to work with me, I could probably devote some hours to helping out, at least testing, etc. I think I've got Xcode (?) installed somewhere on my iMac Tony *** Tony Bandy to...@ohionet.org OHIONET 1500 West Lane Ave. Columbus, OH 43221-3975 1-800-686-8975 x19 On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Galen Charlton g...@esilibrary.com wrote: Hi, On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich alexey.la...@mnsu.edu wrote: What is the reason for lack of official releases of staff client software for Mac OS (and Linux)? Is it strategy, because there is no need, or like with some other things, not enough volunteers? I don't think it's a strategy per se, just more a lack of volunteers. If somebody were to step forward and volunteer to package OS X clients as part of the release-cutting process, I think that would be welcomed with open arms. Even better would be if somebody could submit a patch to automate building them. Triple-word-score if it could be done without requiring an OS X box. Similiarly, if somebody were to step up and get involved in packing the Linux clients for various distributions, that would be great. The technical bar is lower, as Thomas' good work with the staff client autoupdate mechanism means that it's become quite easy to build Linux clients; at this point the main question is whether somebody is up to maintaining and testing .deb or ..rpm. Regards, Galen -- Galen Charlton Director of Implementation Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts email: g...@esilibrary.com direct: +1 770-709-5581 cell: +1 404-984-4366 skype: gmcharlt web:http://www.esilibrary.com/ Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org http://evergreen-ils.org -- Victoria Bush Opscan Evaluation Manager CTLT vb...@ilstu.edu
Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Staff client software vs. web-based interface
I've got a couple of laptops sitting around running Lion and Mountain Lion respectively. I've built my own client several times before but fumbled around with it each time since I've never documented it well or automated any part of it. I'd be willing to work with others on improving documentation and helping with packages for OS X users. It might be a fair bit of work up front but in the long term I think we could make it pretty painless. Quoting Tony Bandy to...@ohionet.org: Hi all, I've got an OSX iMac to help volunteer with! I can't say I'm a OSX guru, but really good at following instructions! If anyone wants to work with me, I could probably devote some hours to helping out, at least testing, etc. I think I've got Xcode (?) installed somewhere on my iMac Tony *** Tony Bandy to...@ohionet.org OHIONET 1500 West Lane Ave. Columbus, OH 43221-3975 1-800-686-8975 x19 On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Galen Charlton g...@esilibrary.com wrote: Hi, On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Lazar, Alexey Vladimirovich alexey.la...@mnsu.edu wrote: What is the reason for lack of official releases of staff client software for Mac OS (and Linux)? Is it strategy, because there is no need, or like with some other things, not enough volunteers? I don't think it's a strategy per se, just more a lack of volunteers. If somebody were to step forward and volunteer to package OS X clients as part of the release-cutting process, I think that would be welcomed with open arms. Even better would be if somebody could submit a patch to automate building them. Triple-word-score if it could be done without requiring an OS X box. Similiarly, if somebody were to step up and get involved in packing the Linux clients for various distributions, that would be great. The technical bar is lower, as Thomas' good work with the staff client autoupdate mechanism means that it's become quite easy to build Linux clients; at this point the main question is whether somebody is up to maintaining and testing .deb or ..rpm. Regards, Galen -- Galen Charlton Director of Implementation Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts email: g...@esilibrary.com direct: +1 770-709-5581 cell: +1 404-984-4366 skype: gmcharlt web:http://www.esilibrary.com/ Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org http://evergreen-ils.org -- Rogan Hamby Manager Rock Hill Library Reference Services York County Library System Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
