Please respond by Nov. 5th:Known Free/Open Source EHR/EMR Deployment Count.
Dear Ed, I got the that feeling TOO, and I wish we can get some type of working FRAMEWORK that allow TWO AMAZING approaches to get some kind of interoperability to JOIN forces together. I gather, at the operational level, that is it is EXTREMELLY difficult to separate the GOOD FOR society and business iniciatives that somehow REWARDS materially all the great innovation created. I am personally live everyday the prevention of great PROJECTS of EHR in developing countries due to the lack of understanding of the balance between, resources and people- needs--- Hope is what I reckon will allow us as human being to DO THE RIGHT THINGS every day. Cheers Carol Melbourne Australia -- From: William E Hammond hammo...@mc.duke.edu Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 5:28 AM To: For openEHR technical discussions openehr-technical at openehr.org Cc: For openEHR technical discussions openehr-technical at openehr.org Subject: Re: Please respond by Nov. 5th:Known Free/Open Source EHR/EMRDeploymentCount. Thanks. I agree that things are moving ahead. I wish we could remove some of the animosity (maybe I am reading it worng) towards HL7 (not from you), and close the gap between the two efforts. best Regards. Ed Thomas Beale thomas.beale at oce aninformatics.com To For openEHR technical discussions Sent by: openehr-technical at openehr.org openehr-technical cc -bounces at openehr. org Subject Re: Please respond by Nov. 5th: Known Free/Open Source 11/06/2008 01:11 EHR/EMR Deployment Count. PM Please respond to For openEHR technical discussions openehr-technica l at openehr.org William E Hammond wrote: Thomas, I am very impressed with these statistics. I was not aware of the penetration of openEHR into that volume of use. Congratulations for a hugh success. Can you help me identify the actual systems that are in use in Australia, Netherlands and Brazil. I am specifically interested in the EHR systems that use openEHR. We need to build on those successes. Thanks for sharing this information. Best Regards, Ed Hammond *Ed, I should stress that these are pure openEHR systems; systems based on archetypes of some kind include Systematic (SSE) in Aarhus, Denmark, and Obstet in Australia. Both companies have expressed serious interest in 'going official', and I happen to know that their architectures are sufficiently close to the archetype / template idea that it is feasible. I dont have any numbers on EHRs in these systems but I would expect in the hundreds of thousands, based on the catchment areas they serve. Although I said at the beginning that I don't think it is that useful a statistic, it's not a bad brut measure of uptake, so let's see if we can gather some better numbers, for interest's sake. One reason for success of at least our own EHR server (Ocean Informatics) is that its performance is good - sub-0.5 second for everything so far, with a typical concurrent load equivalent to about a 1,000 bed hospital. I don't yet have performance numbers for harder population queries, but mundane population queries across 10,000 - 250,000 EHRs are fast. This isn't the place to advertise, but I think it is reasonable to at least allow the community to know that real performance is indeed possible and feasible to implement in openEHR. If others agree, it may be the time to do a bit of a poll and start putting harder data on the 'who is using it' webpage. - thomas * ___ openEHR-technical mailing list openEHR-technical at openehr.org http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical ___ openEHR-technical mailing list openEHR-technical at openehr.org http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical
Description of files from Template Designer?
Hi Olof, Ocean currently does what you are intending to do here but we do not use the .OET file. As mentioned by others, the .OET only represents the references to archetypes and the additional constraint rules to apply to those archetypes. To utilise this for anything of use you need to combine the template, archetypes and rules together in memory before applying any additional logic to the template definition. BTW, the latest OET schema is always deployed with the Template Design in the schemas folder. As indicated by Ian, the Operational Template is what is intended to be used for software operations beyond the knowledge design process. The Ocean Template Designer has an Operational Template export function (File/Export/ as Operational Template). This features is continuing to be debugged with new template use case so depending on what version of the Template Designer you have, the resulting Operational Template may still have some issues. Using the latest Beta release (https://wiki.oceaninformatics.com/confluence/display/TTL/Template+Designer+ Beta+Release) is recommended and to return to for Beta updates on a regular basis. I can provide you with the current Operational Template schema that extends the Archetype schema. This schema (see https://wiki.oceaninformatics.com/confluence/display/TTL/Template+Designer+R esources) is relatively close to the new Template Object Model draft (available on the Wiki) but will be updated in the next couple of months to align with this new draft. Any migration from this OPT format to the new TOM will be much smaller than transitioning from OET to the TOM. From this OPT you can produce all sorts of artefacts, we produce an abstract form definition from which we can produce web forms in ASP.Net, Template Data Schemas (XML Schema), Template Data Objects (c# classes), HTML Documentation, Composition Prototypes (empty composition data instances). The OPT is a pivotal artefact bridging between the Knowledge Designs and Operational Software. Heath From: openehr-technical-boun...@openehr.org [mailto:openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org] On Behalf Of Olof Torgersson Sent: Thursday, 6 November 2008 8:39 PM To: openEHR technical discussions Subject: Description of files from Template Designer? Hi, Sorry if this is the wrong forum. Is there a description somewhere of the oet-files produced by the Ocean Informatics Template Designer? I would like to use the templates in an application as a basis for input forms, but then I need a specification of the file-contents. Regards Olof Torgersson --- Olof Torgersson Associate Professor Department of Computer Science and Engineering Chalmers University of Technology and G?teborg University SE-412 96 G?teborg, Sweden email: oloft at chalmers.se phone: +46 31 772 54 06 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/private/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20081107/261c34dd/attachment.html
HL7 and openEHR. was Re: Please respond by Nov. 5th: Known Free/Open Source EHR/EMR Deployment Count.
Ed, In an attempt to close the gap, I have penned an article indicating how HL7 might make use of openEHR archetypes to overcome some of the inherent shortcomings of RIM based modelling for CDA document entries. You can read it at: http://www.openehr.org/wiki/display/stds/openEHR+Archetypes+for+HL7+CDA+Documents Interested in your thoughts about how this could be progressed. regards, Eric Browne Ed Hammond wrote: Thanks. I agree that things are moving ahead. I wish we could remove some of the animosity (maybe I am reading it worng) towards HL7 (not from you), and close the gap between the two efforts. best Regards. Ed Thomas Beale thomas.beale at oce aninformatics.com To For openEHR technical discussions Sent by: openehr-technical at openehr.org openehr-technical cc -bounces at openehr. org Subject Re: Please respond by Nov. 5th: Known Free/Open Source 11/06/2008 01:11 EHR/EMR Deployment Count. PM Please respond to For openEHR technical discussions openehr-technica l at openehr.org William E Hammond wrote: Thomas, I am very impressed with these statistics. I was not aware of the penetration of openEHR into that volume of use. Congratulations for a hugh success. Can you help me identify the actual systems that are in use in Australia, Netherlands and Brazil. I am specifically interested in the EHR systems that use openEHR. We need to build on those successes. Thanks for sharing this information. Best Regards, Ed Hammond *Ed, I should stress that these are pure openEHR systems; systems based on archetypes of some kind include Systematic (SSE) in Aarhus, Denmark, and Obstet in Australia. Both companies have expressed serious interest in 'going official', and I happen to know that their architectures are sufficiently close to the archetype / template idea that it is feasible. I dont have any numbers on EHRs in these systems but I would expect in the hundreds of thousands, based on the catchment areas they serve. Although I said at the beginning that I don't think it is that useful a statistic, it's not a bad brut measure of uptake, so let's see if we can gather some better numbers, for interest's sake. One reason for success of at least our own EHR server (Ocean Informatics) is that its performance is good - sub-0.5 second for everything so far, with a typical concurrent load equivalent to about a 1,000 bed hospital. I don't yet have performance numbers for harder population queries, but mundane population queries across 10,000 - 250,000 EHRs are fast. This isn't the place to advertise, but I think it is reasonable to at least allow the community to know that real performance is indeed possible and feasible to implement in openEHR. If others agree, it may be the time to do a bit of a poll and start putting harder data on the 'who is using it' webpage. - thomas * ___ openEHR-technical mailing list openEHR-technical at openehr.org http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical ___ openEHR-technical mailing list openEHR-technical at openehr.org http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical
Please respond by Nov. 5th: Known Free/Open Source EHR/EMR Deployment Count.
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Please respond by Nov. 5th: Known Free/Open Source EHR/EMR Deployment Cou...
I find it quite peculiar that the debate surfaces once again now all parties have agreed to use detailed clinical models to capture the knowledge and data details and from there make archetypes and clinical statements. I would like to see all our passion move into creating the DCM :-) Sincerely yours, dr. William TF Goossen director Results 4 Care b.v. De Stinse 15 3823 VM Amersfoort the Netherlands email: Results4Care at cs.com phone + 31654614458 fax +3133 2570169 www.results4care.nl Dutch Chamber of Commerce number: 32133713 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/private/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20081107/0d8158ed/attachment.html
Please respond by Nov. 5th: Known Free/Open Source EHR/EMR Deployment Cou...
Williamtfgoossen at cs.com wrote: I find it quite peculiar that the debate surfaces once again now all parties have agreed to use detailed clinical models to capture the knowledge and data details and from there make archetypes and clinical statements. I would like to see all our passion move into creating the DCM :-) William, I don't know what DCM is 'using' - is there are new formalism? - thomas
Is originalAuthor required?
Hi Adam, Heath
The attribute in question, original_author is an attribute of Class
RESOURCE_DESCRIPTION from rm.common.resource package. According to the specs
(common_im.pdf), the type is HashString,String NOT a string and the
invariant on it is Original_author_valid: original_author /= Void and then
not original_author.is_empty.
The Java implementation (see below) of this invariant is, I believe,
faithful interpretation of the specs.
if (originalAuthor == null || originalAuthor.size() == 0 ) {
throw new IllegalArgumentException(null or empty originalAuthor);
}
The thing I am not sure here is the XML schema. If the schema is not
compliant with the RM specs, perhaps the schema should be updated so the
parsing code generated from schema can catch errors like this, thoughts?
Cheers,
Rong
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 2:10 AM, Heath Frankel
heath.frankel at oceaninformatics.com wrote:
Hi Adam,
Can you provide details of the offending archetype?
Looking at the AOM, the originalAuthor is a required attribute and this is
reflected in the Resource.xsd. However apart from the list being
non-empty,
I see no other invariant to that states that the value of the
originalAuthor
item cannot be an empty string.
Therefore I would suggest that the Java IllegalArgumentException null or
empty originalAuthor is too tight. A not null invariant seems
reasonable.
However, not being a member of the java implementation I will leave that to
them to decide what to do here.
If there is an issue with the Ocean XML output please feel free to contact
me directly.
Heath
-Original Message-
From: openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org [mailto:openehr-technical-
bounces at openehr.org] On Behalf Of Adam Flinton
Sent: Thursday, 6 November 2008 1:30 AM
To: Java OpenEHR; openEHR technical discussions
Subject: Is originalAuthor required?
Dear All,
Running the Java ADL XML I get a fair few errors of the type:
Error Class: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException Message: null or empty
originalAuthor
Is originalAuthor a required structure?
If so then the Ocean ADL XML is not picking that up.
If not then could the Java code be amended to not error if it is not
present.
TIA
Adam
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Please respond by Nov. 5th: Known Free/Open Source EHR/EMR Deployment Count.
William E Hammond wrote: There is no HL7. It is an organization with many members. Most people who believe that HL7 is just message-centric are outside people, plus, I admit, some are in HL7. In my opinion, the CDA, and certainly level 3, are templates/archetypes in compositiopn. I further believe that the CDA will adopt clinical statements. On the other hand, I find that messaging still has its place. Given that, I think openEHR has excellent archetypes that have intellectual value. In my opinion, there is considerable interest in archetypes in HL7. I particularly believe the board is committed to this direction. We certainly have several persons on the board that are strongly committed to that direction. Thinking HL7 as only message-centric is coupled with v2 of which there is still a strong following. I think the furture will be different. * With respect to clinical modelling I hope it will. Along with others, I have spent years trying to convince HL7 that single-source modelling was a good idea and worth pursuing. I hope there are enough results around in the various national programmes, commercial products, and universities to convince someone. If we can agree on this we can all move forward much faster. - thomas *
Detailed Clinical Modelling for EHR Development and deployment and for HL7 v3
In a message dated 7-11-2008 9:24:56 W. Europe Standard Time, thomas.beale at oceaninformatics.com writes: William, I don't know what DCM is 'using' - is there are new formalism? - thomas Detailed Clinical Modelling is currently using multiple formats: 1.For legacy systems to extract clinical knowledge, and to come up with an expression that 2 and 3 below at least can use: UML 2.For messaging HL7 v3: template formalism (i.e. HL7 v3 XML and schematron) 3.For 13606 RIM based archetyping: ADL 4.For some testing of multiple sets of constraints: OWL (see Rector and Marley work on medications). Purposes of DCM include: 1] to allow quality of clinical content to be discussed and verified by clinicians, 2] setting quality criteria for what should be in an archetype / template / DCM (what was discussed in Brisbane meeting last year) 3] making sure that in any transform from one formalism to another the robustness of clinical content remains. If we could express all we need in an ADL editor we would be ready and could step over. But ADL is missing several important features at the moment, including process related, decision support related and message exchange related features. For instance, we cannot include a display text if a coded ordinal is required. And we do not know how to express the formula, or logic between multiple variables in an archetype, e.g. how a total score is obtained. 4] setting criteria for repositories so that we can share amongst the different standards and deploying communities. I would like to attach a recent paper on it, but it usually gets stripped of when submitting to the list. If an ADL editor would allow expressing some additional features, allowing to convert ADL to HL7 v3 XML, the discussion would be obsolete for the formalism part of things. I have seen the ADL in HL7 v2 messages which looks very promising and at least allows us to move further with the definition of clinical content. Sincerely yours, dr. William TF Goossen director Results 4 Care b.v. De Stinse 15 3823 VM Amersfoort the Netherlands email: Results4Care at cs.com phone + 31654614458 fax +3133 2570169 www.results4care.nl Dutch Chamber of Commerce number: 32133713 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/private/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20081107/14f22418/attachment.html
