Constant Values and sub Elements
i think that's a very good idea to make a seperate XML-File if i understand
it correctly.
i.e. i have a textfield [at0003] which is referencing to values in a global
XML-File (containing all SpokenDefaults of all nodes of the domain model).
similar to SNOMED term_binding or is it something completely different?
term_binding =
[SNOMED-CT] =
items =
[at] = [SNOMED-CT::19019007]
[at0002] = [SNOMED-CT::162408000]
so SpokenDefault is still computable and i can use it in the Application but
instead of parsing it from the archetype, i get the SpokenDefault via
Referencing?
thanks in advance,
Timmy
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Thilo Schuler thilo.schuler at gmail.com
wrote:
Timmy,
I think this speech recognition stuff is more an interface thing and
IMHO it doesn't belong into an archetype (if you see an archetype as a
means to share interoperable health information). You could have a
seperate XML file that tags every appropriate field to a
'spokendefault' value(what would be the format? - sound file, phonetic
spelling,...) via the at code.
Lets see what others think
-Thilo
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Timmy K timmyx at gmail.com wrote:
Sorry for being that unspecific.. The project i am working on is about
speech recognition. A Software which allows med. experts to fill out a
Form with speech only, so currently the xml File with the Domain Model
generates a Form with Checkboxes, date Fields and so on and it
includes also a spokendefault value which tells the speech recognition
how this Element Name Sounds like. In the End the generated Form can
be controled or navigated with speech.
I would say it has to be computable.
Thanks,
Timmy
Am 05.05.2008 um 15:11 schrieb Ian McNicoll ian at mcmi.co.uk:
Thanks Timmy,
I am still struggling to understand the purpose of the
'pronounciation' attribute. Does this have to be computable or is it
just for designer/user guidance? Can you give little more background
to your project?
Ian
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Timmy K timmyx at gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
sure, it consist of a parent node and several child nodes, which
describes
the appearance of a patient.
structured by
-common information
weight
birthdate
height
-face
--eyes
color
--mouth
--nose
and so on
all elements have an attribute which says how it should be
pronounced which
is constant.
Thanks for the quick replies.
Timmy
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Ian McNicoll ian at mcmi.co.uk
wrote:
Hi Timmy,
Can you explain the domain model in a little more detail?
Ian
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:58 AM, TimmyX TimmyX at gmail.com wrote:
Hello!
Within the context of my bachelor thesis, i am trying to
transform a
domain
model into an archetype, but now i am having some problems and i
hope
maybe
some of you here can help me.
My first question is, is it possible to define constant or hard
coded
values ie. constant text which contains a description?
So far I am trying to add a CODED_TEXT that matches a defined
constraint
ac0001, but i am not sure if this is a valid solution.
ITEM_TREE[at0003] matches { -- ITEM_TREE
items cardinality matches {0..*; unordered}
matches {
CLUSTER[at0004] occurrences matches {0..1}
matches {-- Top
items cardinality matches {0..*;
unordered} matches {
ELEMENT[at0005] occurrences
matches {0..1} matches {-- SpokenDefault
value matches {
DV_CODED_TEXT
matches {
defining_code matches {[ac0001]}-- Top
}
}
and the other question
How do i add sub-elements, is it even possible? ie. I have a Text
field
Top and i want to add a Text field SpokenDefault to it, which
shows
how
to pronounce the word Top. the way i do it right now is creating a
cluster
for every element which is not very effective.
thanks in advance
TimmyX
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Constant Values and sub Elements
Thilo,
I think you're right, this actually really doesn't make sense, my current
approach somehow mixes information with knowledge.
Which is kind of the opposite of the two-level modelling and the whole
archetype architecture.
Actually my project is to check if the domain model can be transformed
into a archetype.
I guess I'm still having problems understanding openehr.
Timmy
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Thilo Schuler thilo.schuler at gmail.com
wrote:
Timmy,
I think this speech recognition stuff is more an interface thing and
IMHO it doesn't belong into an archetype (if you see an archetype as a
means to share interoperable health information). You could have a
seperate XML file that tags every appropriate field to a
'spokendefault' value(what would be the format? - sound file, phonetic
spelling,...) via the at code.
Lets see what others think
-Thilo
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Timmy K timmyx at gmail.com wrote:
Sorry for being that unspecific.. The project i am working on is about
speech recognition. A Software which allows med. experts to fill out a
Form with speech only, so currently the xml File with the Domain Model
generates a Form with Checkboxes, date Fields and so on and it
includes also a spokendefault value which tells the speech recognition
how this Element Name Sounds like. In the End the generated Form can
be controled or navigated with speech.
I would say it has to be computable.
Thanks,
Timmy
Am 05.05.2008 um 15:11 schrieb Ian McNicoll ian at mcmi.co.uk:
Thanks Timmy,
I am still struggling to understand the purpose of the
'pronounciation' attribute. Does this have to be computable or is it
just for designer/user guidance? Can you give little more background
to your project?
Ian
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Timmy K timmyx at gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
sure, it consist of a parent node and several child nodes, which
describes
the appearance of a patient.
structured by
-common information
weight
birthdate
height
-face
--eyes
color
--mouth
--nose
and so on
all elements have an attribute which says how it should be
pronounced which
is constant.
Thanks for the quick replies.
Timmy
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Ian McNicoll ian at mcmi.co.uk
wrote:
Hi Timmy,
Can you explain the domain model in a little more detail?
Ian
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:58 AM, TimmyX TimmyX at gmail.com wrote:
Hello!
Within the context of my bachelor thesis, i am trying to
transform a
domain
model into an archetype, but now i am having some problems and i
hope
maybe
some of you here can help me.
My first question is, is it possible to define constant or hard
coded
values ie. constant text which contains a description?
So far I am trying to add a CODED_TEXT that matches a defined
constraint
ac0001, but i am not sure if this is a valid solution.
ITEM_TREE[at0003] matches { -- ITEM_TREE
items cardinality matches {0..*; unordered}
matches {
CLUSTER[at0004] occurrences matches {0..1}
matches {-- Top
items cardinality matches {0..*;
unordered} matches {
ELEMENT[at0005] occurrences
matches {0..1} matches {-- SpokenDefault
value matches {
DV_CODED_TEXT
matches {
defining_code matches {[ac0001]}-- Top
}
}
and the other question
How do i add sub-elements, is it even possible? ie. I have a
Text
field
Top and i want to add a Text field SpokenDefault to it, which
shows
how
to pronounce the word Top. the way i do it right now is creating a
cluster
for every element which is not very effective.
thanks in advance
TimmyX
--
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--
Dr Ian McNicoll
office +44(0)141 560 4657
fax +44(0)141 560 4657
mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
skype ianmcnicoll
Consultant - Ocean Informatics ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com
Consultant - IRIS GP Accounts
Member of BCS Primary Health Care Specialist Group ?
http://www.phcsg.o
rg
Constant Values and sub Elements
Ok I guess pronunciation wasn't the best description of it.
in my project sample domain model the concept name really is the spoken
default.
as I've heard it will be used in the future as a common word for a concept,
i guess some medical terms which are used by med. experts which are not the
official term, like abbreviations.
ie. saying MRI instead of Magnetic Resonance Imaging.
i guess it would be a better approach to model a generic archetype which
shows how the domain model should be structured and add information at
runtime, does this make sense?
Thanks in advance
Timmy
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Sebastian Garde
sebastian.garde at oceaninformatics.com wrote:
I sent the following yesterday, but it didn't make it to the list for
whatever reason...I had this a couple of times now that my emails to the
openehr lists don't arrive...maybe you can check Thomas?
In essence I agree with you Thilo...not sure this should be in the
archetype
---
Hi Timmy,
not sure I would archetype the pronunciation of an archetype element
within the archetype.
Is the default pronunciation something you would want to store potentially
with every instance of the archetype and what is the purpose of that?
To me this sounds that the default pronunciation (Top spoken) is just like
the name of the element (Top written): a different representation of the
same concept, but not another data element of the archetype.
Sebastian
Thilo Schuler wrote:
Timmy,
I think this speech recognition stuff is more an interface thing and
IMHO it doesn't belong into an archetype (if you see an archetype as a
means to share interoperable health information). You could have a
seperate XML file that tags every appropriate field to a
'spokendefault' value(what would be the format? - sound file, phonetic
spelling,...) via the at code.
Lets see what others think
-Thilo
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Timmy K timmyx at gmail.com wrote:
Sorry for being that unspecific.. The project i am working on is about
speech recognition. A Software which allows med. experts to fill out
a
Form with speech only, so currently the xml File with the Domain
Model
generates a Form with Checkboxes, date Fields and so on and it
includes also a spokendefault value which tells the speech
recognition
how this Element Name Sounds like. In the End the generated Form can
be controled or navigated with speech.
I would say it has to be computable.
Thanks,
Timmy
Am 05.05.2008 um 15:11 schrieb Ian McNicoll ian at mcmi.co.uk:
Thanks Timmy,
I am still struggling to understand the purpose of the
'pronounciation' attribute. Does this have to be computable or is
it
just for designer/user guidance? Can you give little more
background
to your project?
Ian
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Timmy K timmyx at gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
sure, it consist of a parent node and several child nodes, which
describes
the appearance of a patient.
structured by
-common information
weight
birthdate
height
-face
--eyes
color
--mouth
--nose
and so on
all elements have an attribute which says how it should be
pronounced which
is constant.
Thanks for the quick replies.
Timmy
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Ian McNicoll ian at mcmi.co.uk
wrote:
Hi Timmy,
Can you explain the domain model in a little more detail?
Ian
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:58 AM, TimmyX TimmyX at gmail.com wrote:
Hello!
Within the context of my bachelor thesis, i am trying to
transform a
domain
model into an archetype, but now i am having some problems and i
hope
maybe
some of you here can help me.
My first question is, is it possible to define constant or hard
coded
values ie. constant text which contains a description?
So far I am trying to add a CODED_TEXT that matches a defined
constraint
ac0001, but i am not sure if this is a valid solution.
ITEM_TREE[at0003] matches { -- ITEM_TREE
items cardinality matches {0..*; unordered}
matches {
CLUSTER[at0004] occurrences matches
{0..1}
matches {-- Top
items cardinality matches {0..*;
unordered} matches {
ELEMENT[at0005]
occurrences
matches {0..1} matches {-- SpokenDefault
value matches {
DV_CODED_TEXT
matches {
defining_code matches {[ac0001]}-- Top
Constant Values and sub Elements
Sorry but I don't understand what you mean with Spoken default corresponds
to the description associated with a SNOMED terminology code.
Timmy
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Colin Sutton ColinS at ctc.usyd.edu.au wrote:
Timmy,
It seems to me that your 'spoken default' corresponds to the description
associated with a SNOMED terminology code.
i.e. the SNOMED code has an english description, a french description,
etc.
For speech recognition you would need to store a phonetic representation
(e.g. a markov model) of each term for each language/dialect to be
recognised.
No small task!
Regards,
Colin Sutton
-Original Message-
From: openehr-technical-bounces at openehr.org on behalf of TimmyX
Sent: Mon 05-May-08 6:58 PM
To: openehr-technical at openehr.org
Subject: Constant Values and sub Elements
Hello!
Within the context of my bachelor thesis, i am trying to transform a
domain
model into an archetype, but now i am having some problems and i hope
maybe
some of you here can help me.
My first question is, is it possible to define constant or hard coded
values ie. constant text which contains a description?
So far I am trying to add a CODED_TEXT that matches a defined constraint
ac0001, but i am not sure if this is a valid solution.
ITEM_TREE[at0003] matches { -- ITEM_TREE
items cardinality matches {0..*; unordered} matches {
CLUSTER[at0004] occurrences matches {0..1} matches
{-- Top
items cardinality matches {0..*; unordered}
matches {
ELEMENT[at0005] occurrences matches
{0..1} matches {-- SpokenDefault
value matches {
DV_CODED_TEXT
matches {
defining_code matches {[ac0001]}-- Top
}
}
and the other question
How do i add sub-elements, is it even possible? ie. I have a Text field
Top and i want to add a Text field SpokenDefault to it, which shows
how
to pronounce the word Top. the way i do it right now is creating a cluster
for every element which is not very effective.
thanks in advance
TimmyX
--
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Constant Values and sub Elements
Hi,
sure, it consist of a parent node and several child nodes, which describes
the appearance of a patient.
structured by
-common information
weight
birthdate
height
-face
--eyes
color
--mouth
--nose
and so on
all elements have an attribute which says how it should be pronounced which
is constant.
Thanks for the quick replies.
Timmy
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Ian McNicoll ian at mcmi.co.uk wrote:
Hi Timmy,
Can you explain the domain model in a little more detail?
Ian
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:58 AM, TimmyX TimmyX at gmail.com wrote:
Hello!
Within the context of my bachelor thesis, i am trying to transform a
domain
model into an archetype, but now i am having some problems and i hope
maybe
some of you here can help me.
My first question is, is it possible to define constant or hard coded
values ie. constant text which contains a description?
So far I am trying to add a CODED_TEXT that matches a defined
constraint
ac0001, but i am not sure if this is a valid solution.
ITEM_TREE[at0003] matches { -- ITEM_TREE
items cardinality matches {0..*; unordered} matches {
CLUSTER[at0004] occurrences matches {0..1}
matches {-- Top
items cardinality matches {0..*;
unordered} matches {
ELEMENT[at0005] occurrences
matches {0..1} matches {-- SpokenDefault
value matches {
DV_CODED_TEXT
matches {
defining_code matches {[ac0001]}-- Top
}
}
and the other question
How do i add sub-elements, is it even possible? ie. I have a Text
field
Top and i want to add a Text field SpokenDefault to it, which shows
how
to pronounce the word Top. the way i do it right now is creating a
cluster
for every element which is not very effective.
thanks in advance
TimmyX
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Constant-Values-and-%22sub%22-Elements-tp17053994p17053994.html
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--
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office +44(0)141 560 4657
fax +44(0)141 560 4657
mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
skype ianmcnicoll
Consultant - Ocean Informatics ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com
Consultant - IRIS GP Accounts
Member of BCS Primary Health Care Specialist Group ? http://www.phcsg.org
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Constant Values and sub Elements
Thanks Thilo,
although this might not be worth it, i will try to model a generic element
as cluster-archetype.
also i dont quite understand what you meant with
model the 'spoken default' explicitly with a text ELEMENT that is
preset to the constant value.
how would i do that if i wanted to add a spoken default field to a date
field?
thanks in advance
Timmy
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Thilo Schuler thilo.schuler at gmail.com
wrote:
Timmy,
I guess in your case with so littel elements I would bite the bullet
and model the 'spoken default' explicitly with a text ELEMENT that is
preset to the constant value.
An option would be to model a generic element as a CLUSTER-archetype
(including the 'spoken default' element) and specialize an from it for
every element you need. These specialised CLUSTERS could be assembled
in an OBSERVATION archetype via slots. But it think this would be to
complex for such a simple model and the specialisation would not
provide much added value.
Cheers, Thilo
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Timmy K timmyx at gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
sure, it consist of a parent node and several child nodes, which
describes
the appearance of a patient.
structured by
-common information
weight
birthdate
height
-face
--eyes
color
--mouth
--nose
and so on
all elements have an attribute which says how it should be pronounced
which
is constant.
Thanks for the quick replies.
Timmy
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Ian McNicoll ian at mcmi.co.uk wrote:
Hi Timmy,
Can you explain the domain model in a little more detail?
Ian
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:58 AM, TimmyX TimmyX at gmail.com wrote:
Hello!
Within the context of my bachelor thesis, i am trying to transform
a
domain
model into an archetype, but now i am having some problems and i
hope
maybe
some of you here can help me.
My first question is, is it possible to define constant or hard
coded
values ie. constant text which contains a description?
So far I am trying to add a CODED_TEXT that matches a defined
constraint
ac0001, but i am not sure if this is a valid solution.
ITEM_TREE[at0003] matches { -- ITEM_TREE
items cardinality matches {0..*; unordered} matches
{
CLUSTER[at0004] occurrences matches {0..1}
matches {-- Top
items cardinality matches {0..*;
unordered} matches {
ELEMENT[at0005] occurrences
matches {0..1} matches {-- SpokenDefault
value matches {
DV_CODED_TEXT
matches {
defining_code matches {[ac0001]}-- Top
}
}
and the other question
How do i add sub-elements, is it even possible? ie. I have a Text
field
Top and i want to add a Text field SpokenDefault to it, which
shows
how
to pronounce the word Top. the way i do it right now is creating a
cluster
for every element which is not very effective.
thanks in advance
TimmyX
--
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--
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office +44(0)141 560 4657
fax +44(0)141 560 4657
mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
skype ianmcnicoll
Consultant - Ocean Informatics ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com
Consultant - IRIS GP Accounts
Member of BCS Primary Health Care Specialist Group ?
http://www.phcsg.org
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Constant Values and sub Elements
Sorry for being that unspecific.. The project i am working on is about
speech recognition. A Software which allows med. experts to fill out a
Form with speech only, so currently the xml File with the Domain Model
generates a Form with Checkboxes, date Fields and so on and it
includes also a spokendefault value which tells the speech recognition
how this Element Name Sounds like. In the End the generated Form can
be controled or navigated with speech.
I would say it has to be computable.
Thanks,
Timmy
Am 05.05.2008 um 15:11 schrieb Ian McNicoll ian at mcmi.co.uk:
Thanks Timmy,
I am still struggling to understand the purpose of the
'pronounciation' attribute. Does this have to be computable or is it
just for designer/user guidance? Can you give little more background
to your project?
Ian
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Timmy K timmyx at gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
sure, it consist of a parent node and several child nodes, which
describes
the appearance of a patient.
structured by
-common information
weight
birthdate
height
-face
--eyes
color
--mouth
--nose
and so on
all elements have an attribute which says how it should be
pronounced which
is constant.
Thanks for the quick replies.
Timmy
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Ian McNicoll ian at mcmi.co.uk wrote:
Hi Timmy,
Can you explain the domain model in a little more detail?
Ian
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:58 AM, TimmyX TimmyX at gmail.com wrote:
Hello!
Within the context of my bachelor thesis, i am trying to
transform a
domain
model into an archetype, but now i am having some problems and i
hope
maybe
some of you here can help me.
My first question is, is it possible to define constant or hard
coded
values ie. constant text which contains a description?
So far I am trying to add a CODED_TEXT that matches a defined
constraint
ac0001, but i am not sure if this is a valid solution.
ITEM_TREE[at0003] matches { -- ITEM_TREE
items cardinality matches {0..*; unordered}
matches {
CLUSTER[at0004] occurrences matches {0..1}
matches {-- Top
items cardinality matches {0..*;
unordered} matches {
ELEMENT[at0005] occurrences
matches {0..1} matches {-- SpokenDefault
value matches {
DV_CODED_TEXT
matches {
defining_code matches {[ac0001]}-- Top
}
}
and the other question
How do i add sub-elements, is it even possible? ie. I have a Text
field
Top and i want to add a Text field SpokenDefault to it, which
shows
how
to pronounce the word Top. the way i do it right now is creating a
cluster
for every element which is not very effective.
thanks in advance
TimmyX
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Constant-Values-and-%22sub%22-Elements-tp17053994p17053994.html
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___
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--
Dr Ian McNicoll
office +44(0)141 560 4657
fax +44(0)141 560 4657
mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
skype ianmcnicoll
Consultant - Ocean Informatics ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com
Consultant - IRIS GP Accounts
Member of BCS Primary Health Care Specialist Group ? http://www.phcsg.o
rg
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--
Dr Ian McNicoll
office +44(0)141 560 4657
fax +44(0)141 560 4657
mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
skype ianmcnicoll
Consultant - Ocean Informatics ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com
Consultant - IRIS GP Accounts
Member of BCS Primary Health Care Specialist Group ? http://www.phcsg.o
rg
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