Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born?
Doing some researching for a patent here in Norway a few years back I found that it was near impossible (here) to get a patent unless what you made was revolutionary new. Anything that would be considered the next step was not enough for a patent. Our system in the U.S. is so screwed up, it's basically worthless. It's only good for the patent troll attorneys that spend their days just looking for people to sue. As far as doing anything for anyone (other than lawyers) they're useless. It's turning into nuclear arms race type of warfare, and the whole system just needs to be done away with. Software patents are a bad idea, and they need to be abolished. I like your system in Norway, it seems to make more sense (and eliminating 80% of the silly nonsense patent crap in the U.S. would really help innovation and development. Our patent system is complete garbage, and it's just a form of corporate warfare that is used by large companies to strong arm one another, and to stifle off any competition (or kill off any small startups or young companies that don't have the deep pockets to afford large legal battles). I'd abolish at least 70-80% of the system, and toss the DMCA crap out as well. Our whole patent/copyright system needs some serious work. There needs to be some fair use clauses (for educational, research, and development purposes) and also patents should only be good for a maximum of 5 years, that's it. After 5 years, it's public domain. That would help bring an end to all this silly stupidity (and expensive litigation costs, and silly legal battles). If you can't bring your product to market (and a 5 year head start is not enough time for you) then you don't deserve to have a patent anyways. Too many clowns file patents just for the purpose of suing others. Completely useless, and just use it as a means to litigate and kill off competition. The large corporations do it just to bully other companies around (with legal threats) and they all just build up arsenals of patents that they can use against one another. It's a silly game, and it needs to be abolished. * It *should* have a block against patenting things that * * are a natural evolution of existing technology.* Agreed. Now just try explaining that to the patent examiner's office. Mark On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 2:28 AM, Tedd Hansen t...@nimbustech.no wrote: Hi Actually the patent system should work fine and encourage innovation. It * *should** have a block against patenting things that are a natural evolution of existing technology. Sadly, as with all things, the US justice system seems to allow any party to sue any part for anything and I think that has rubbed off on patenting (imho). Now companies are patenting everything just to avoid getting sued. We see examples of this in IBM, Microsoft, etc where they patent it just to release it to everyone. (Anyone remember the MS-patent for “Dynamic loading and binding of modules” I found researching for script engine? ;) ) Doing some researching for a patent here in Norway a few years back I found that it was near impossible (here) to get a patent unless what you made was revolutionary new. Anything that would be considered the next step was not enough for a patent. Br, Tedd *From:* opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] *On Behalf Of *Mark Malewski *Sent:* 12. februar 2010 06:01 *To:* opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born? * I honestly believe that the patent system, by its very nature, * * is the worst thing ever when it comes to stifling innovation* * and technological advancement.* Agreed. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born?
That is true there should be no reason to have patents for stuff that shouldnt be there but if you dont you got pigs stealing everyones food. On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 7:26 PM, Mark Malewski mark.malew...@gmail.comwrote: Doing some researching for a patent here in Norway a few years back I found that it was near impossible (here) to get a patent unless what you made was revolutionary new. Anything that would be considered the next step was not enough for a patent. Our system in the U.S. is so screwed up, it's basically worthless. It's only good for the patent troll attorneys that spend their days just looking for people to sue. As far as doing anything for anyone (other than lawyers) they're useless. It's turning into nuclear arms race type of warfare, and the whole system just needs to be done away with. Software patents are a bad idea, and they need to be abolished. I like your system in Norway, it seems to make more sense (and eliminating 80% of the silly nonsense patent crap in the U.S. would really help innovation and development. Our patent system is complete garbage, and it's just a form of corporate warfare that is used by large companies to strong arm one another, and to stifle off any competition (or kill off any small startups or young companies that don't have the deep pockets to afford large legal battles). I'd abolish at least 70-80% of the system, and toss the DMCA crap out as well. Our whole patent/copyright system needs some serious work. There needs to be some fair use clauses (for educational, research, and development purposes) and also patents should only be good for a maximum of 5 years, that's it. After 5 years, it's public domain. That would help bring an end to all this silly stupidity (and expensive litigation costs, and silly legal battles). If you can't bring your product to market (and a 5 year head start is not enough time for you) then you don't deserve to have a patent anyways. Too many clowns file patents just for the purpose of suing others. Completely useless, and just use it as a means to litigate and kill off competition. The large corporations do it just to bully other companies around (with legal threats) and they all just build up arsenals of patents that they can use against one another. It's a silly game, and it needs to be abolished. * It *should* have a block against patenting things that * * are a natural evolution of existing technology.* Agreed. Now just try explaining that to the patent examiner's office. Mark On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 2:28 AM, Tedd Hansen t...@nimbustech.no wrote: Hi Actually the patent system should work fine and encourage innovation. It * *should** have a block against patenting things that are a natural evolution of existing technology. Sadly, as with all things, the US justice system seems to allow any party to sue any part for anything and I think that has rubbed off on patenting (imho). Now companies are patenting everything just to avoid getting sued. We see examples of this in IBM, Microsoft, etc where they patent it just to release it to everyone. (Anyone remember the MS-patent for “Dynamic loading and binding of modules” I found researching for script engine? ;) ) Doing some researching for a patent here in Norway a few years back I found that it was near impossible (here) to get a patent unless what you made was revolutionary new. Anything that would be considered the next step was not enough for a patent. Br, Tedd *From:* opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] *On Behalf Of *Mark Malewski *Sent:* 12. februar 2010 06:01 *To:* opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born? * I honestly believe that the patent system, by its very nature, * * is the worst thing ever when it comes to stifling innovation* * and technological advancement.* Agreed. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born?
. Those outside the U.S. don't seem to care about U.S. laws, and they don't have to deal with (or care about) the silly nonsense of the U.S. patent and court system. The whole system is a circus. It needs to be abolished and done away with. 5 year maximum on patents (and maybe we also need 4 year rotating term limits on politicians and judges). That might help fix some of the corruption problems we have. Plus stop ALL campaign contributions from special interest groups and large corporations. I can't pay off a police officer who enforces the law (because that would be considered illegal), but it's perfectly ok for large corporations to use campaign contributions to bribe and pay off the politicians that CREATE the laws? I guess that makes a lot of sense. The whole patent system is messed up. Give them 5 year maximums on patents (on physical inventions that you can touch and hold), and after that it becomes public domain. Abolish the DMCA completely. Source code is still protected under copyright, enuff said. :-) Mark On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 3:05 AM, Len Brown lenwbr...@gmail.com wrote: The scourge here in the US are the patent whores who make a business model of doing little more than patenting as many ideas as they can and then sit and wait for someone else to implement an idea and then slam them with a lawsuit for intellectual property rights infringement. It baffles me how anyone would allow such lawsuits to make their way through the system. But then again, we are talking about a country where I can sue a fast food chain if my coffee is too hot. Maybe that's why they now offer iced coffee ? Even if the coffee cup has posted that its contents are hot there's someone ready to sue. A while back I saw on the news where a woman sued because her mother burned her lip from hot coffee purchased at a fast food drive-through window and her defense was that her mother was not a native English speaker, and thus could not understand the message Caution: Contents May Be Hot Guess what? She was awarded half a million $. On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 2:28 AM, Tedd Hansen t...@nimbustech.no wrote: Hi Actually the patent system should work fine and encourage innovation. It * *should** have a block against patenting things that are a natural evolution of existing technology. Sadly, as with all things, the US justice system seems to allow any party to sue any part for anything and I think that has rubbed off on patenting (imho). Now companies are patenting everything just to avoid getting sued. We see examples of this in IBM, Microsoft, etc where they patent it just to release it to everyone. (Anyone remember the MS-patent for “Dynamic loading and binding of modules” I found researching for script engine? ;) ) Doing some researching for a patent here in Norway a few years back I found that it was near impossible (here) to get a patent unless what you made was revolutionary new. Anything that would be considered the next step was not enough for a patent. Br, Tedd *From:* opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] *On Behalf Of *Mark Malewski *Sent:* 12. februar 2010 06:01 *To:* opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born? * I honestly believe that the patent system, by its very nature, * * is the worst thing ever when it comes to stifling innovation* * and technological advancement.* Agreed. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born?
threats) and they all just build up arsenals of patents that they can use against one another. It's a silly game, and it needs to be abolished. * It *should* have a block against patenting things that * * are a natural evolution of existing technology.* Agreed. Now just try explaining that to the patent examiner's office. Mark On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 2:28 AM, Tedd Hansen t...@nimbustech.no wrote: Hi Actually the patent system should work fine and encourage innovation. It **should** have a block against patenting things that are a natural evolution of existing technology. Sadly, as with all things, the US justice system seems to allow any party to sue any part for anything and I think that has rubbed off on patenting (imho). Now companies are patenting everything just to avoid getting sued. We see examples of this in IBM, Microsoft, etc where they patent it just to release it to everyone. (Anyone remember the MS-patent for “Dynamic loading and binding of modules” I found researching for script engine? ;) ) Doing some researching for a patent here in Norway a few years back I found that it was near impossible (here) to get a patent unless what you made was revolutionary new. Anything that would be considered the next step was not enough for a patent. Br, Tedd *From:* opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] *On Behalf Of *Mark Malewski *Sent:* 12. februar 2010 06:01 *To:* opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born? * I honestly believe that the patent system, by its very nature, * * is the worst thing ever when it comes to stifling innovation* * and technological advancement.* Agreed. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born?
their hands on (and laughing at us) and it seems to be working out VERY well for them. The only people hurt or affected by silly U.S. patents are the Americans and the U.S. businesses. Supposed we need to move to India or China, just to get away from this whole mess. Those outside the U.S. don't seem to care about U.S. laws, and they don't have to deal with (or care about) the silly nonsense of the U.S. patent and court system. The whole system is a circus. It needs to be abolished and done away with. 5 year maximum on patents (and maybe we also need 4 year rotating term limits on politicians and judges). That might help fix some of the corruption problems we have. Plus stop ALL campaign contributions from special interest groups and large corporations. I can't pay off a police officer who enforces the law (because that would be considered illegal), but it's perfectly ok for large corporations to use campaign contributions to bribe and pay off the politicians that CREATE the laws? I guess that makes a lot of sense. The whole patent system is messed up. Give them 5 year maximums on patents (on physical inventions that you can touch and hold), and after that it becomes public domain. Abolish the DMCA completely. Source code is still protected under copyright, enuff said. :-) Mark On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 3:05 AM, Len Brown lenwbr...@gmail.com wrote: The scourge here in the US are the patent whores who make a business model of doing little more than patenting as many ideas as they can and then sit and wait for someone else to implement an idea and then slam them with a lawsuit for intellectual property rights infringement. It baffles me how anyone would allow such lawsuits to make their way through the system. But then again, we are talking about a country where I can sue a fast food chain if my coffee is too hot. Maybe that's why they now offer iced coffee ? Even if the coffee cup has posted that its contents are hot there's someone ready to sue. A while back I saw on the news where a woman sued because her mother burned her lip from hot coffee purchased at a fast food drive-through window and her defense was that her mother was not a native English speaker, and thus could not understand the message Caution: Contents May Be Hot Guess what? She was awarded half a million $. On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 2:28 AM, Tedd Hansen t...@nimbustech.no wrote: Hi Actually the patent system should work fine and encourage innovation. It **should** have a block against patenting things that are a natural evolution of existing technology. Sadly, as with all things, the US justice system seems to allow any party to sue any part for anything and I think that has rubbed off on patenting (imho). Now companies are patenting everything just to avoid getting sued. We see examples of this in IBM, Microsoft, etc where they patent it just to release it to everyone. (Anyone remember the MS-patent for “Dynamic loading and binding of modules” I found researching for script engine? ;) ) Doing some researching for a patent here in Norway a few years back I found that it was near impossible (here) to get a patent unless what you made was revolutionary new. Anything that would be considered the next step was not enough for a patent. Br, Tedd *From:* opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] *On Behalf Of *Mark Malewski *Sent:* 12. februar 2010 06:01 *To:* opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born? * I honestly believe that the patent system, by its very nature, * * is the worst thing ever when it comes to stifling innovation* * and technological advancement.* Agreed. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born?
Hi Actually the patent system should work fine and encourage innovation. It *should* have a block against patenting things that are a natural evolution of existing technology. Sadly, as with all things, the US justice system seems to allow any party to sue any part for anything and I think that has rubbed off on patenting (imho). Now companies are patenting everything just to avoid getting sued. We see examples of this in IBM, Microsoft, etc where they patent it just to release it to everyone. (Anyone remember the MS-patent for Dynamic loading and binding of modules I found researching for script engine? ;) ) Doing some researching for a patent here in Norway a few years back I found that it was near impossible (here) to get a patent unless what you made was revolutionary new. Anything that would be considered the next step was not enough for a patent. Br, Tedd From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Mark Malewski Sent: 12. februar 2010 06:01 To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born? I honestly believe that the patent system, by its very nature, is the worst thing ever when it comes to stifling innovation and technological advancement. Agreed. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born?
The scourge here in the US are the patent whores who make a business model of doing little more than patenting as many ideas as they can and then sit and wait for someone else to implement an idea and then slam them with a lawsuit for intellectual property rights infringement. It baffles me how anyone would allow such lawsuits to make their way through the system. But then again, we are talking about a country where I can sue a fast food chain if my coffee is too hot. Maybe that's why they now offer iced coffee ? Even if the coffee cup has posted that its contents are hot there's someone ready to sue. A while back I saw on the news where a woman sued because her mother burned her lip from hot coffee purchased at a fast food drive-through window and her defense was that her mother was not a native English speaker, and thus could not understand the message Caution: Contents May Be Hot Guess what? She was awarded half a million $. On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 2:28 AM, Tedd Hansen t...@nimbustech.no wrote: Hi Actually the patent system should work fine and encourage innovation. It * *should** have a block against patenting things that are a natural evolution of existing technology. Sadly, as with all things, the US justice system seems to allow any party to sue any part for anything and I think that has rubbed off on patenting (imho). Now companies are patenting everything just to avoid getting sued. We see examples of this in IBM, Microsoft, etc where they patent it just to release it to everyone. (Anyone remember the MS-patent for “Dynamic loading and binding of modules” I found researching for script engine? ;) ) Doing some researching for a patent here in Norway a few years back I found that it was near impossible (here) to get a patent unless what you made was revolutionary new. Anything that would be considered the next step was not enough for a patent. Br, Tedd *From:* opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] *On Behalf Of *Mark Malewski *Sent:* 12. februar 2010 06:01 *To:* opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born? * I honestly believe that the patent system, by its very nature, * * is the worst thing ever when it comes to stifling innovation* * and technological advancement.* Agreed. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born?
Len Brown wrote: Hello everyone! I know that the various versions of the viewer are derived from Linden Lab releasing the viewer source code as open source, but what about the server side of things? Is what we now call OpenSim the result of taking what we know about the viewer and working backwards to how we presume the server pushes the information to it? This would be my guess. I don't ever recall there being any releases of the early server source code ever made available. This thought hit me when I started wondering how Open Simulator originated if the Linden Lab server source was never made publicly available. The Open Simulator site dist directory goes back to OpenSim 0.4 so I'm a bit mystified. I started messing with OpenSim at version 0.6 and on. Thanks for any info offered on this topic. I've been active in Second Life since December 2003 and am just wanting to flesh out a bit of the historical side of things, when it comes to OpenSim beginnings. Len, have you seen this OpenSim history wiki page? http://opensimulator.org/wiki/History If you dig up any extra information it would be very welcome on there too. -- Justin Clark-Casey (justincc) http://justincc.org http://twitter.com/justincc ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born?
I think it's probably missing some of the really ancient history, eg: Mid-2006: Me/JH work out chunks of the SL protocol from Ethereal dumps ... then we were told by another outside-of-SL [Rade someone?] developer that SL has its entire protocol stored in a file called 'message_template.dat' which is just a .txt file xor'd 0x43. Slightly later: We (mostly JH) write a basic client in C++ using BOOST. ... which turned out to be a complete unmitigated mess of thread crashes ... Then take 2 is written in C#/.NET and gets a lot further, a lot faster. Jan 17th-ish 2007: Darren/MW writes a simple server using libsl as the base; a lot of it is based on 'repeating' captured packet dumps in response to situations. Jan 2Xth 2007: LL releases the client code Jan 25-9th: MW releases his server emulator onto one of the forums, me a few others are intrigued. Feb?: MW/lbsa/Gareth/me are the first committers Feb-July: We rewrite the code from scratch at least 4 times. ... settling on '0.2' which forms the basis of a lot of the current architecture ... July: SDague from IBM gets signoff to start committing code to OpenSim. ... *stuff happens* ... Today. Adam -Original Message- From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev- boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Justin Clark-Casey Sent: Thursday, 11 February 2010 2:41 PM To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born? Len Brown wrote: Hello everyone! I know that the various versions of the viewer are derived from Linden Lab releasing the viewer source code as open source, but what about the server side of things? Is what we now call OpenSim the result of taking what we know about the viewer and working backwards to how we presume the server pushes the information to it? This would be my guess. I don't ever recall there being any releases of the early server source code ever made available. This thought hit me when I started wondering how Open Simulator originated if the Linden Lab server source was never made publicly available. The Open Simulator site dist directory goes back to OpenSim 0.4 so I'm a bit mystified. I started messing with OpenSim at version 0.6 and on. Thanks for any info offered on this topic. I've been active in Second Life since December 2003 and am just wanting to flesh out a bit of the historical side of things, when it comes to OpenSim beginnings. Len, have you seen this OpenSim history wiki page? http://opensimulator.org/wiki/History If you dig up any extra information it would be very welcome on there too. -- Justin Clark-Casey (justincc) http://justincc.org http://twitter.com/justincc ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born?
Sounds like the patent trolls are digging for more information. * I know that the various versions of the viewer are derived from Linden Lab releasing the viewer source code as open source, but what about the server side of things?* Does anyone ask the Keebler elves how they make their cookies? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep2lGBZptl0NR=1 Look at the functionality of the viewer, write and develop a server that will support the functions of the viewer. Develop a server with all the new and wonderful features, functionality and fixes that core devs and users would like to see added (OSSL). Create a modular approach so other groups can improve upon it, and take other OpenSource projects and integrate them into OpenSim (i.e. ModRex). Eventually decide that the viewer isn't good enough, scrap the viewer, and then write a completely new viewer (supporting all the functions and features that you want to add). The project just continuously evolves, it doesn't come from one group or one place. Just like original SL or SL Viewer doesn't come from one person or one place. (More than likely it was inspired' by Active Worlds). The 3D Web continues to evolve. Communities of people and developers come together, and make it is what it is. OpenSim just attempts to make a standard open source platform of it all. Enough said? The server just evolves, portions and areas are reworked to improve performance (or add additional functionality). The server endures a few rewrites as it moves along. Parts and pieces are taken from various other projects (i.e. Ogre3D, PAL, ODE, Newton, etc.) A new framework is written, and slowly you have a nice new OpenSource development platform. Features are slowly added as they are requested. Ideas from the community inspire the developers, and slowly the project evolves. Where did Firefox or OpenOffice.org come from? Talented individuals, that believe in the OpenSource community. Just because you see 4 or 5 different web browsers (or Open Source web browsers) doesn't mean that they are all copies of one another (or reverse engineered). Someone sees something, they are intrigued by it, or they think of a new feature and they begin writing the code necessary to make it happen. It takes a lot of hard work. How did Mosaic browser get off the ground? How did Microsoft's IIS get off the ground? How did Internet Explorer get off the ground? How did Apache web server get off the ground? It takes some creativity, innovation, and a dedicated group of people with a whole lot of brains to develop a new open source standard platform that can be used for 3D Web. I supposed by definition, we have actually developed a patchy OpenSim server. Mark ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born?
Patent trolls? Hardly. I'm just a normal guy with a keene interest in OpenSim and like to know where the things that interest me originated. I have no time nor interest in anything else. :) Unfortunately, in today's world simply having a healthy interest in where things originated that we find interesting is cause for consternation and mistrust. Actually, I was talking with a friend about the many, MANY horrible (though now viewed as rather funny) bumps in the road that we encountered with Linden Lab while Second Life was still just an infant technology. And in some ways it's still a child experiencing growing pains. I honestly believe that the patent system, by its very nature, is the worst thing ever when it comes to stifling innovation and technological advancement. - Len On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Mark Malewski mark.malew...@gmail.comwrote: Sounds like the patent trolls are digging for more information. * I know that the various versions of the viewer are derived from Linden Lab releasing the viewer source code as open source, but what about the server side of things?* Does anyone ask the Keebler elves how they make their cookies? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep2lGBZptl0NR=1 Look at the functionality of the viewer, write and develop a server that will support the functions of the viewer. Develop a server with all the new and wonderful features, functionality and fixes that core devs and users would like to see added (OSSL). Create a modular approach so other groups can improve upon it, and take other OpenSource projects and integrate them into OpenSim (i.e. ModRex). Eventually decide that the viewer isn't good enough, scrap the viewer, and then write a completely new viewer (supporting all the functions and features that you want to add). The project just continuously evolves, it doesn't come from one group or one place. Just like original SL or SL Viewer doesn't come from one person or one place. (More than likely it was inspired' by Active Worlds). The 3D Web continues to evolve. Communities of people and developers come together, and make it is what it is. OpenSim just attempts to make a standard open source platform of it all. Enough said? The server just evolves, portions and areas are reworked to improve performance (or add additional functionality). The server endures a few rewrites as it moves along. Parts and pieces are taken from various other projects (i.e. Ogre3D, PAL, ODE, Newton, etc.) A new framework is written, and slowly you have a nice new OpenSource development platform. Features are slowly added as they are requested. Ideas from the community inspire the developers, and slowly the project evolves. Where did Firefox or OpenOffice.org come from? Talented individuals, that believe in the OpenSource community. Just because you see 4 or 5 different web browsers (or Open Source web browsers) doesn't mean that they are all copies of one another (or reverse engineered). Someone sees something, they are intrigued by it, or they think of a new feature and they begin writing the code necessary to make it happen. It takes a lot of hard work. How did Mosaic browser get off the ground? How did Microsoft's IIS get off the ground? How did Internet Explorer get off the ground? How did Apache web server get off the ground? It takes some creativity, innovation, and a dedicated group of people with a whole lot of brains to develop a new open source standard platform that can be used for 3D Web. I supposed by definition, we have actually developed a patchy OpenSim server. Mark ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev -- - Len W. Brown lenwbr...@gmail.com http://www.lenfocenter.com ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born?
* I honestly believe that the patent system, by its very nature, * * is the worst thing ever when it comes to stifling innovation* * and technological advancement.* Agreed. ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
Re: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born?
I just had a quick look, and I think 01-03 is in the git repo; for some reason the version naming scheme that was introduced around 0.4 has gotten corrupted on the earlier versions; at least the 'origin' branches 0.1-prestable Sugilite Tourmaline Ruby Zircon And quite possibly Standalone Reflect early versions - one need to dig deeper to remember which is what though. (That work should be fun to do for the so inclined, and should probably go on the history page as well) /Stefan From: opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-boun...@lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Len Brown Sent: den 11 februari 2010 11:40 To: opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de Subject: [Opensim-dev] How Was OpenSim Born? Hello everyone! I know that the various versions of the viewer are derived from Linden Lab releasing the viewer source code as open source, but what about the server side of things? Is what we now call OpenSim the result of taking what we know about the viewer and working backwards to how we presume the server pushes the information to it? This would be my guess. I don't ever recall there being any releases of the early server source code ever made available. This thought hit me when I started wondering how Open Simulator originated if the Linden Lab server source was never made publicly available. The Open Simulator site dist directory goes back to OpenSim 0.4 so I'm a bit mystified. I started messing with OpenSim at version 0.6 and on. Thanks for any info offered on this topic. I've been active in Second Life since December 2003 and am just wanting to flesh out a bit of the historical side of things, when it comes to OpenSim beginnings. -- - Len W. Brown lenwbr...@gmail.com ___ Opensim-dev mailing list Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
