Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Shamail Tahir]

Hi everyone,

The Product WG is finalizing our mid-cycle plans and I wanted to confirm
the conclusion of this thread to bring into that discussion...

Reviewing the numerous responses here, it seems like the majority opted for
option #1 (one 'official' ops mid-cycle but not precluding regional ones)
and, in this specific instance, the 'official' one is the one happening in
Manchester.  Would you agree with this summary?

If we want to attempt a hub/spoke model (e.g. start etherpad-based
conversations at the 'official' mid-cycle but continue to build on those
topics at the regional events) then we can also discuss ideas on how to
help with the effort of summarizing discussions and topics.

Thanks,
Shamail


On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Clayton O'Neill  wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Erik McCormick <
> emccorm...@cirrusseven.com> wrote:
>
>> > 2) More technically we'll need to address the challenge of local
>> > sound, how to we ensure all the mostly spontaious talk in a large work
>> > session makes it to remote participants.  Passing a mic is a bit
>> > cumbersome and hard to enforce, while mic'ing the room to properly get
>> > ambient sound isn't likely something we can do without significant
>> > professional help.
>> >
>>
>> This is a technical issue that needs dealing with for sure. Passing a
>> mic is absolutely not practical, so it would need to be some sort of
>> ambient thing. We can't even get people to consistently go to a mic
>> during Q at the end of summit presentations. I've seen enough
>> teleconferencing systems that cover large boardroom settings to know
>> that such things exist, but I have no specific knowledge of what they
>> are, if they can be rented, or how much they cost. That will require a
>> lot of digging into.
>
>
> A key difference between the Ceph summit and the Ops Mid-cycle appears to
> be that the Ops Mid-cycle is at least an order of magnitude bigger.
>
> For a good amount of the Philly and Palo Alto mid-cycles there were 200ish
> people in a single room.  Audio was a problem even for people sitting in
> the room at times.   I think this is beyond “large boardroom” size.
>
> ___
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> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>
>


-- 
Thanks,
Shamail Tahir
t: @ShamailXD
tz: Eastern Time
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Erik McCormick]

I'm still fishing for more specific details, but here is a snapshot of
how the Ceph Development Summit is handled.

http://tracker.ceph.com/projects/ceph/wiki/CDS_Jewel

It was previously done via Google Hangouts, but is now done using
Bluejeans. This is interesting especially since I believe Bluejeans is
an Openstack operator. I wonder if there's anyone from there on this
list that might be able to chime in with useful suggestions for us?
:).

Cheers,
Erik

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 3:40 PM, Matt Jarvis
 wrote:
> I agree with all of the points that are being raised, but the inverse has
> been true for most of the European operators at every other midcycle. And
> the same presumably applies to the Asian operators. As OpenStack goes
> global, we need to find ways of bringing all those voices into the
> conversation. There's no doubt that this first meetup in Europe may not be
> as productive, well organised, integrated into the development workflow etc.
> etc as the US ones have been given that this is the first time many of the
> European operators will have got together, but you've got to start
> somewhere. What we really need is participation from the wider operators
> community from folks who know the format and can help structure things and
> contribute to the discussion, and if some of that needs to be done remotely
> then let's try and facilitate that. If it doesn't work then it doesn't work
> - at least we learnt something along the way.
>
>
> On 17 November 2015 at 20:16, JJ Asghar  wrote:
>>
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA512
>>
>> On 11/17/15 1:34 PM, Matt Jarvis wrote:
>> > From my perspective we're happy to put in place anything that we
>> > can reasonably do, and that will increase participation. Bear in
>> > mind that we don't have massive amounts of money or people - the
>> > costs of the event as it stands is just about covered by the
>> > sponsors we have, and I'm putting most of the logistics together (
>> > with help from Tom Fifield and a few others ) as well as doing my
>> > day job.
>> >
>> > We've already had a very kind additional offer of infrastructure
>> > help ( in kit, bodies, connectivity etc ) from Canonical, if we
>> > want to put in place stuff to enable remote participation in terms
>> > of audio streaming, IRC etc. etc. If only we had some OpenStack
>> > public cloud then it would be trivial to spin up whatever servers
>> > we might need to support that  ;)
>> >
>> > It would probably be helpful to have some gauge on how many people
>> > are interested in remote participation before we do anything in
>> > terms of enabling that in a more extensive way than etherpads - not
>> > sure the best way to get that number, any ideas ?
>>
>>
>> I'd like to throw in this thought. I've been to each mid-cycle since
>> San Antonino. My experience with them has been extremely variable but
>> the chance to be in the _same_ room as the people I talk to daily is
>> invaluable. I think my boss calls it the "hallway track" is more
>> important then anything for me. Not to mention the ability to get a
>> beverage after the official meeting time and come to a conclusion.
>> (This has happened more often then anything for me.)
>>
>> It's great that we are trying to get people that can't travel involved
>> but the harsh reality of it is that no matter what we do they will
>> still miss out on some of the conversations.
>>
>>
>> - --
>> Best Regards,
>> JJ Asghar
>> c: 512.619.0722 t: @jjasghar irc: j^2
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>> Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2
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>> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>>
>> ___
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>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Jarvis
> Head of Cloud Computing
> DataCentred
> Office: (+44)0161 8703985
> Mobile: (+44)07983 725372
> Email: matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk
> Website: http://www.datacentred.co.uk
>
> DataCentred Limited registered in England and Wales no. 05611763
>
> ___
> 

Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Clayton O'Neill]

On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Erik McCormick 
wrote:

> > 2) More technically we'll need to address the challenge of local
> > sound, how to we ensure all the mostly spontaious talk in a large work
> > session makes it to remote participants.  Passing a mic is a bit
> > cumbersome and hard to enforce, while mic'ing the room to properly get
> > ambient sound isn't likely something we can do without significant
> > professional help.
> >
>
> This is a technical issue that needs dealing with for sure. Passing a
> mic is absolutely not practical, so it would need to be some sort of
> ambient thing. We can't even get people to consistently go to a mic
> during Q at the end of summit presentations. I've seen enough
> teleconferencing systems that cover large boardroom settings to know
> that such things exist, but I have no specific knowledge of what they
> are, if they can be rented, or how much they cost. That will require a
> lot of digging into.


A key difference between the Ceph summit and the Ops Mid-cycle appears to
be that the Ops Mid-cycle is at least an order of magnitude bigger.

For a good amount of the Philly and Palo Alto mid-cycles there were 200ish
people in a single room.  Audio was a problem even for people sitting in
the room at times.   I think this is beyond “large boardroom” size.
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Jonathan D. Proulx]

On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 03:44:03PM -0500, Erik McCormick wrote:
:I'm still fishing for more specific details, but here is a snapshot of
:how the Ceph Development Summit is handled.
:
:http://tracker.ceph.com/projects/ceph/wiki/CDS_Jewel
:
:It was previously done via Google Hangouts, but is now done using
:Bluejeans. This is interesting especially since I believe Bluejeans is
:an Openstack operator. I wonder if there's anyone from there on this
:list that might be able to chime in with useful suggestions for us?
::).


One very important thing to keep in mind, with Ceph's remote summit
everyone is remote & thus on a level field.  If we try and bring in
real time remote participation to a primarily in-person event there
are additional challenges.  Off the topp of my head:

1) Managing the social impedence mismatch between local and remote
participents.  There may be way technology can help or hurt this, but
it is basicly a social problem we'll need to address.

2) More technically we'll need to address the challenge of local
sound, how to we ensure all the mostly spontaious talk in a large work
session makes it to remote participants.  Passing a mic is a bit
cumbersome and hard to enforce, while mic'ing the room to properly get
ambient sound isn't likely something we can do without significant
professional help.

By all means if any has info on what's worked or not in the Ceph
summit that will be valuable input, just want to be sure we're
evaluating it in out rather different context.

-Jon

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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Donald Talton]

If only there we some kind of chat medium where people could listen in to the 
live meetup and follow along in chat…

Seriously though, how hard is it to find/designate someone as an IRC translator 
for the main points of discussion? Probably not ideal, but better than nothing. 
There has to be some solution we can find to increase partipation from outside 
Europe.

Saying that we can add to an etherpad before the meetup starts is exclusionary 
to everyone who would attend if not for distance. I know conversely this 
applies to EU participants when we hold this in NA. Really, as technologists, 
can we not sort this out? It’s a simple problem, considering the scope of 
everything else we do.


From: tadow...@gmail.com [mailto:tadow...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Matt Fischer
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 10:48 AM
To: Donald Talton
Cc: Joe Topjian; Jonathan Proulx; openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org
Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Donald Talton 
<donaldtal...@fico.com<mailto:donaldtal...@fico.com>> wrote:
I’ll +1 option 1 too, if we can get remote participation that would suffice.


Having been to several of these I think that we can call remote participation a 
stretch goal at best, and if I'm being honest, I just don't think it's going to 
be very feasible.

It's often times difficult enough to follow the conversation in a room with 100 
people, some speaking without a mic; not sure how a remote person can be 
expected to jump into that type of discussion. Perhaps different for smaller, 
focused WGs sitting around a conference table would work for some remote 
participation? I think for main sessions the best you can hope for is someone 
adding to the etherpad before the discussion (this is my plan for the UK 
midcycle). Not physically being there also puts you at a timezone disadvantage 
and for me it's sometimes difficult to connect from my "real job".

We do these in-person because there's a benefit to being in-person and I don't 
want to detract from that with conference lines etc.

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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Matt Fischer]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Donald Talton 
wrote:

> I’ll +1 option 1 too, if we can get remote participation that would
> suffice.
>
>
>
Having been to several of these I think that we can call remote
participation a stretch goal at best, and if I'm being honest, I just don't
think it's going to be very feasible.

It's often times difficult enough to follow the conversation in a room with
100 people, some speaking without a mic; not sure how a remote person can
be expected to jump into that type of discussion. Perhaps different for
smaller, focused WGs sitting around a conference table would work for some
remote participation? I think for main sessions the best you can hope for
is someone adding to the etherpad before the discussion (this is my plan
for the UK midcycle). Not physically being there also puts you at a
timezone disadvantage and for me it's sometimes difficult to connect from
my "real job".

We do these in-person because there's a benefit to being in-person and I
don't want to detract from that with conference lines etc.
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[David Medberry]

Following up to what Matt said, even for the service (nova, cinder, etc)
mid-cycles I've been in, typically only 1 or 2 folks participate remotely
and they make sure to have someone pay attention/alert them when their
topics are coming up. I don't think remote/virtual scales beyond 1-2 remote
participants in general (when there is critical mass in person.)

-d
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Erik McCormick]

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Donald Talton <donaldtal...@fico.com> wrote:
> If only there we some kind of chat medium where people could listen in to
> the live meetup and follow along in chat…
>
>
>
> Seriously though, how hard is it to find/designate someone as an IRC
> translator for the main points of discussion? Probably not ideal, but better
> than nothing. There has to be some solution we can find to increase
> partipation from outside Europe.
>
>
>
> Saying that we can add to an etherpad before the meetup starts is
> exclusionary to everyone who would attend if not for distance. I know
> conversely this applies to EU participants when we hold this in NA. Really,
> as technologists, can we not sort this out? It’s a simple problem,
> considering the scope of everything else we do.
>

We're deciding not to innovate a solution to allow people to
participate in a group that is attempting to provide innovative ideas.
How ironic. I actually don't think it would require much innovation.
The Ceph guys run their entire design summit remotely, and I'm certain
that it way beyond one or two people. If anyone has participated in
that process, pointers would be welcome. If not, we can certainly post
to their list and ask for suggestions. I imagine Sage might pipe up
with some interesting thoughts at the very least.

>
>
>
> From: tadow...@gmail.com [mailto:tadow...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Matt
> Fischer
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 10:48 AM
> To: Donald Talton
> Cc: Joe Topjian; Jonathan Proulx; openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org
> Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Donald Talton <donaldtal...@fico.com>
> wrote:
>
> I’ll +1 option 1 too, if we can get remote participation that would suffice.
>
>
>
>
>
> Having been to several of these I think that we can call remote
> participation a stretch goal at best, and if I'm being honest, I just don't
> think it's going to be very feasible.
>
>
>
> It's often times difficult enough to follow the conversation in a room with
> 100 people, some speaking without a mic; not sure how a remote person can be
> expected to jump into that type of discussion. Perhaps different for
> smaller, focused WGs sitting around a conference table would work for some
> remote participation? I think for main sessions the best you can hope for is
> someone adding to the etherpad before the discussion (this is my plan for
> the UK midcycle). Not physically being there also puts you at a timezone
> disadvantage and for me it's sometimes difficult to connect from my "real
> job".
>
>
>
> We do these in-person because there's a benefit to being in-person and I
> don't want to detract from that with conference lines etc.
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential, proprietary
> and intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> If you have received this email in error please delete it immediately.
>
> ___
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> OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>

-Erik

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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Erik McCormick]

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 2:07 PM, Jesse Keating <j...@bluebox.net> wrote:
> Lets calm down the negative positioning here.
>
Sorry, I wasn't trying to be uppity. I was merely suggesting that we
not throw in the towel without giving it some thought and at least
come up with some sort of pilot program to try out. We certainly
should label any attempt at remote participation as experimental.

> Matt offered his experience in trying what exists today. Others second it
> (including me). That's not putting a stake in the ground and claiming "THOU
> SHALT NOT PERMIT REMOTE PARTICIPATION".  It's offering an opinion, which is
> what the point of these threads are. Please have some respect for the
> opinion.
>
Opinions are what it's all about, but I try to avoid saying "this
won't work" when there are examples in the wild of such things working
that we could potentially draw on.

> Nobody is saying we can't innovate. In fact, it was suggested to make it a
> stretch goal. So... stretch. Try something. If it works, great, if not, be
> prepared for it to not work, and don't derail the in-person activities to
> try and make a trial work.
>
Nothing we try should cause disruption to the in-person process. I
think we can all agree on that. A trial is exactly what it should be.
I will put a message out on the Ceph list and find out what their
experiences are with it. If we try and can't solve it this time
around, then we have something to strive for next time. I think we can
all agree on a goal of extending participation as best we can without
creating an impediment to getting real work done.

>
> - jlk
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Erik McCormick
> <emccorm...@cirrusseven.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Donald Talton <donaldtal...@fico.com>
>> wrote:
>> > If only there we some kind of chat medium where people could listen in
>> > to
>> > the live meetup and follow along in chat…
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Seriously though, how hard is it to find/designate someone as an IRC
>> > translator for the main points of discussion? Probably not ideal, but
>> > better
>> > than nothing. There has to be some solution we can find to increase
>> > partipation from outside Europe.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Saying that we can add to an etherpad before the meetup starts is
>> > exclusionary to everyone who would attend if not for distance. I know
>> > conversely this applies to EU participants when we hold this in NA.
>> > Really,
>> > as technologists, can we not sort this out? It’s a simple problem,
>> > considering the scope of everything else we do.
>> >
>>
>> We're deciding not to innovate a solution to allow people to
>> participate in a group that is attempting to provide innovative ideas.
>> How ironic. I actually don't think it would require much innovation.
>> The Ceph guys run their entire design summit remotely, and I'm certain
>> that it way beyond one or two people. If anyone has participated in
>> that process, pointers would be welcome. If not, we can certainly post
>> to their list and ask for suggestions. I imagine Sage might pipe up
>> with some interesting thoughts at the very least.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: tadow...@gmail.com [mailto:tadow...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Matt
>> > Fischer
>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 10:48 AM
>> > To: Donald Talton
>> > Cc: Joe Topjian; Jonathan Proulx;
>> > openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org
>> > Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Donald Talton <donaldtal...@fico.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > I’ll +1 option 1 too, if we can get remote participation that would
>> > suffice.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Having been to several of these I think that we can call remote
>> > participation a stretch goal at best, and if I'm being honest, I just
>> > don't
>> > think it's going to be very feasible.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > It's often times difficult enough to follow the conversation in a room
>> > with
>> > 100 people, some speaking without a mic; not sure how a remote person
>> > can be
>> > expected to jump into that type of discussion. Perhaps different for
>> > smaller, focused WGs sitting around a conference table would work for
>> > some
>> > remote participation? I think for main sessio

Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Matt Jarvis]

>From my perspective we're happy to put in place anything that we can
reasonably do, and that will increase participation. Bear in mind that we
don't have massive amounts of money or people - the costs of the event as
it stands is just about covered by the sponsors we have, and I'm putting
most of the logistics together ( with help from Tom Fifield and a few
others ) as well as doing my day job.

We've already had a very kind additional offer of infrastructure help ( in
kit, bodies, connectivity etc ) from Canonical, if we want to put in place
stuff to enable remote participation in terms of audio streaming, IRC etc.
etc. If only we had some OpenStack public cloud then it would be trivial to
spin up whatever servers we might need to support that  ;)

It would probably be helpful to have some gauge on how many people are
interested in remote participation before we do anything in terms of
enabling that in a more extensive way than etherpads - not sure the best
way to get that number, any ideas ?

On 17 November 2015 at 18:58, Matt Fischer  wrote:

>
>> We're deciding not to innovate a solution to allow people to
>> participate in a group that is attempting to provide innovative ideas.
>> How ironic. I actually don't think it would require much innovation.
>> The Ceph guys run their entire design summit remotely, and I'm certain
>> that it way beyond one or two people. If anyone has participated in
>> that process, pointers would be welcome. If not, we can certainly post
>> to their list and ask for suggestions. I imagine Sage might pipe up
>> with some interesting thoughts at the very least.
>>
>>
>
> If we can come up with a way to do so without reducing the effectiveness
> of the people who have taken the time to travel in order to speak face to
> face, then by all means, we should go for it. But it is not fair for us
> (the US folks who cannot travel) to impose something that reduces the
> effectiveness upon a midcycle that has already been planned. Perhaps the
> folks that planned this one can weigh in.
>
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>


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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[JJ Asghar]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 11/17/15 1:34 PM, Matt Jarvis wrote:
> From my perspective we're happy to put in place anything that we
> can reasonably do, and that will increase participation. Bear in
> mind that we don't have massive amounts of money or people - the
> costs of the event as it stands is just about covered by the
> sponsors we have, and I'm putting most of the logistics together (
> with help from Tom Fifield and a few others ) as well as doing my
> day job.
> 
> We've already had a very kind additional offer of infrastructure
> help ( in kit, bodies, connectivity etc ) from Canonical, if we
> want to put in place stuff to enable remote participation in terms
> of audio streaming, IRC etc. etc. If only we had some OpenStack
> public cloud then it would be trivial to spin up whatever servers
> we might need to support that  ;)
> 
> It would probably be helpful to have some gauge on how many people
> are interested in remote participation before we do anything in
> terms of enabling that in a more extensive way than etherpads - not
> sure the best way to get that number, any ideas ?


I'd like to throw in this thought. I've been to each mid-cycle since
San Antonino. My experience with them has been extremely variable but
the chance to be in the _same_ room as the people I talk to daily is
invaluable. I think my boss calls it the "hallway track" is more
important then anything for me. Not to mention the ability to get a
beverage after the official meeting time and come to a conclusion.
(This has happened more often then anything for me.)

It's great that we are trying to get people that can't travel involved
but the harsh reality of it is that no matter what we do they will
still miss out on some of the conversations.


- -- 
Best Regards,
JJ Asghar
c: 512.619.0722 t: @jjasghar irc: j^2
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Matt Jarvis]

I think Tim raises a very valid point, and this was exactly the reason why
I put together the European Ops meetup to start with. There are a lot of
operators in Europe who aren't getting involved in the Ops meetups at the
minute, even at the Summits, for many different reasons including
logistical ones, and as I pointed out earlier in this thread the
implementation landscape in Europe is different from the US and may well
have different concerns to bring to the table eg. there are many more
regional public cloud operators because of data sovereignty concerns in
European countries. Having a midcycle meetup which brings in some of those
voices can only be a positive thing. There are also plenty of options for
remote participation if the demand is there.



On 16 November 2015 at 18:33, Tim Bell <tim.b...@cern.ch> wrote:

>
> Multiple meetups in parallel does make it more difficult to get the PTLs
> and product working group involved. There have been many benefits from
> their work with operators and defining the roadmaps.
>
> It may be that not everyone can attend but there is also the opportunity
> for those who have never attended to come. These may also be those who were
> not able to make it to recent summits and would really benefit from the
> sharing of experiences beyond an ether pad.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
> On 16/11/15 17:11, "Donald Talton" <donaldtal...@fico.com> wrote:
>
> >I'd second this idea. If we can gather the pertinent result from each
> meeting, that would be ideal.
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Edgar Magana [mailto:edgar.mag...@workday.com]
> >Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 9:10 AM
> >To: Donald Talton; Jonathan Proulx;
> openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org
> >Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
> >
> >I am in the same position that Donald here. It is hard to justify that
> trip, however I believe we can multiple Ops Meet-ups around the world
> without expecting an official one.
> >As long as during the meet-up the feedback is collected and open, it
> should be enough to move forward.
> >
> >Edgar
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On 11/16/15, 8:04 AM, "Donald Talton" <donaldtal...@fico.com> wrote:
> >
> >>I think it's good to move the meeting around out of fairness. Although
> like you said, I would not be able to justify travel expenses for my staff
> (US-based) for a mid-cycle meetup.
> >>
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: Jonathan Proulx [mailto:j...@csail.mit.edu]
> >>Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 8:51 AM
> >>To: openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org
> >>Subject: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
> >>
> >>Hi All,
> >>
> >>1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
> #openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I hope
> to raise this issue the...
> >>
> >>It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
> Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously all
> mid cycles have been US based.
> >>
> >>Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather than
> staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it being
> 'opposite' the summit location.
> >>
> >>This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer of the
> same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
> >>
> >>Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
> this needs real time discussion)
> >>
> >>-Jon
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>
> >>1.
> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
> >>
> >>___
> >>OpenStack-operators mailing list
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> >>http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
> >>
> >>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential,
> proprietary and intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please delete it
> immediately.
> >>
> >>
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> >>http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
> >
> >This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential,
> proprietary and intended solely for the indiv

Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[David Medberry]

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Erik McCormick  wrote:

> We're deciding not to innovate a solution to allow people to
> participate in a group that is attempting to provide innovative ideas.
> How ironic. I actually don't think it would require much innovation.
> The Ceph guys run their entire design summit remotely, and I'm certain
> that it way beyond one or two people.
>

Yes, going "whole hog" into a virtual session actually works reasonably
well. UDS have been like this for a few years (but there is dramatically
less participation than when it was f2f.) It works LESS well (IME) when
there are a large group local and a minority remote but works reasonably
well when that remote minority is 1-2 folks.
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Matt Jarvis]

I agree with all of the points that are being raised, but the inverse has
been true for most of the European operators at every other midcycle. And
the same presumably applies to the Asian operators. As OpenStack goes
global, we need to find ways of bringing all those voices into the
conversation. There's no doubt that this first meetup in Europe may not be
as productive, well organised, integrated into the development workflow
etc. etc as the US ones have been given that this is the first time many of
the European operators will have got together, but you've got to start
somewhere. What we really need is participation from the wider operators
community from folks who know the format and can help structure things and
contribute to the discussion, and if some of that needs to be done remotely
then let's try and facilitate that. If it doesn't work then it doesn't work
- at least we learnt something along the way.


On 17 November 2015 at 20:16, JJ Asghar  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
>
> On 11/17/15 1:34 PM, Matt Jarvis wrote:
> > From my perspective we're happy to put in place anything that we
> > can reasonably do, and that will increase participation. Bear in
> > mind that we don't have massive amounts of money or people - the
> > costs of the event as it stands is just about covered by the
> > sponsors we have, and I'm putting most of the logistics together (
> > with help from Tom Fifield and a few others ) as well as doing my
> > day job.
> >
> > We've already had a very kind additional offer of infrastructure
> > help ( in kit, bodies, connectivity etc ) from Canonical, if we
> > want to put in place stuff to enable remote participation in terms
> > of audio streaming, IRC etc. etc. If only we had some OpenStack
> > public cloud then it would be trivial to spin up whatever servers
> > we might need to support that  ;)
> >
> > It would probably be helpful to have some gauge on how many people
> > are interested in remote participation before we do anything in
> > terms of enabling that in a more extensive way than etherpads - not
> > sure the best way to get that number, any ideas ?
>
>
> I'd like to throw in this thought. I've been to each mid-cycle since
> San Antonino. My experience with them has been extremely variable but
> the chance to be in the _same_ room as the people I talk to daily is
> invaluable. I think my boss calls it the "hallway track" is more
> important then anything for me. Not to mention the ability to get a
> beverage after the official meeting time and come to a conclusion.
> (This has happened more often then anything for me.)
>
> It's great that we are trying to get people that can't travel involved
> but the harsh reality of it is that no matter what we do they will
> still miss out on some of the conversations.
>
>
> - --
> Best Regards,
> JJ Asghar
> c: 512.619.0722 t: @jjasghar irc: j^2
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>
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Office: (+44)0161 8703985
Mobile: (+44)07983 725372
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Donald Talton]

I think it's good to move the meeting around out of fairness. Although like you 
said, I would not be able to justify travel expenses for my staff (US-based) 
for a mid-cycle meetup.

-Original Message-
From: Jonathan Proulx [mailto:j...@csail.mit.edu] 
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 8:51 AM
To: openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org
Subject: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

Hi All,

1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on #openstack-meeting, 
we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I hope to raise this issue 
the...

It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops Meetup in 
Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously all mid cycles have 
been US based.

Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather than 
staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it being 'opposite' 
the summit location.

This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer of the same 
people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.

Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think this 
needs real time discussion)

-Jon


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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Jonathan Proulx]

Let me restate the question a bit as I think I'm hearing two different
responses that may be getting conflated.

Option 1:  There's a single Ops Midcycle that shifts around and we
look at ways to increase remote participation. (obviously this doesn't
preclude other meetups)

Option 2: There are multiple Ops Meetups around midcycle (presumably
starting with North America, Asia, and Europe) and we look at ways of
coordinationg those re reduce duplication of effort any synthesis of
results.

I was advocating option 1 mostly because I think synthesis of option 2
is harder than stepping up preparation of etherpads before sessions
and review of them afterward is which is motly the level of remote
participation I'd envision in the first case (possibly also running
some email threads on any reccommendations that come out and seem
controvertial for any reason)

So far though seems the tide is runiing toward option 2, multiple
meet-ups. Though wee're still at a very small sample size.

-Jon


On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:50:52AM -0500, Jonathan Proulx wrote:
:Hi All,
:
:1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
:#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
:hope to raise this issue the...
:
:It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
:Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
:all mid cycles have been US based.
:
:Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
:than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
:being 'opposite' the summit location.
:
:This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
:of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
:
:Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
:this needs real time discussion)
:
:-Jon
:
:
:-- 
:
:1. 
http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2

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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Erik McCormick]

I thought we were working toward a regional approach rather than
having an "official" single meetup. Are you proposing to scrap the
North America meetup entirely? What does official vs. unofficial
entail?

-Erik

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:50 AM, Jonathan Proulx  wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> 1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
> #openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
> hope to raise this issue the...
>
> It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
> Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
> all mid cycles have been US based.
>
> Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
> than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
> being 'opposite' the summit location.
>
> This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
> of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
>
> Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
> this needs real time discussion)
>
> -Jon
>
>
> --
>
> 1. 
> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
>
> ___
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Kruithof, Piet]

Sorry, late to the conversation and maybe missing a bit of context.

How may regional meetings are we thinking?  2-3? Or more?

Piet




Piet Kruithof
Sr UX Architect, HP Helion Cloud
PTL, OpenStack UX project

"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and wrong.”

H L Menken


From: Matt Jarvis 
<matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk<mailto:matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk>>
Date: Monday, November 16, 2015 at 9:23 AM
To: Jonathan Proulx <j...@csail.mit.edu<mailto:j...@csail.mit.edu>>
Cc: 
"openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>"
 
<openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>>
Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

+1 from me, although I am admittedly biased ;) Personally I think the wider 
participation in the ops feedback loop can only be a positive thing, and there 
are definitely different perspectives and concerns to be had from European 
operators given the different commercial landscape. I'm sure the same is also 
true for Asia.

On 16 November 2015 at 15:50, Jonathan Proulx 
<j...@csail.mit.edu<mailto:j...@csail.mit.edu>> wrote:
Hi All,

1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
hope to raise this issue the...

It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
all mid cycles have been US based.

Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
being 'opposite' the summit location.

This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.

Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
this needs real time discussion)

-Jon


--

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DataCentred
Office: (+44)0161 8703985
Mobile: (+44)07983 725372
Email: matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk<mailto:matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk>
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Tim Bell]

Multiple meetups in parallel does make it more difficult to get the PTLs and 
product working group involved. There have been many benefits from their work 
with operators and defining the roadmaps. 

It may be that not everyone can attend but there is also the opportunity for 
those who have never attended to come. These may also be those who were not 
able to make it to recent summits and would really benefit from the sharing of 
experiences beyond an ether pad.

Tim




On 16/11/15 17:11, "Donald Talton" <donaldtal...@fico.com> wrote:

>I'd second this idea. If we can gather the pertinent result from each meeting, 
>that would be ideal.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Edgar Magana [mailto:edgar.mag...@workday.com] 
>Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 9:10 AM
>To: Donald Talton; Jonathan Proulx; openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org
>Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
>
>I am in the same position that Donald here. It is hard to justify that trip, 
>however I believe we can multiple Ops Meet-ups around the world without 
>expecting an official one.
>As long as during the meet-up the feedback is collected and open, it should be 
>enough to move forward.
>
>Edgar
>
>
>
>
>On 11/16/15, 8:04 AM, "Donald Talton" <donaldtal...@fico.com> wrote:
>
>>I think it's good to move the meeting around out of fairness. Although like 
>>you said, I would not be able to justify travel expenses for my staff 
>>(US-based) for a mid-cycle meetup.
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Jonathan Proulx [mailto:j...@csail.mit.edu] 
>>Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 8:51 AM
>>To: openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org
>>Subject: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
>>
>>Hi All,
>>
>>1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on 
>>#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I hope to 
>>raise this issue the...
>>
>>It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops Meetup in 
>>Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously all mid cycles 
>>have been US based.
>>
>>Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather than 
>>staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it being 
>>'opposite' the summit location.
>>
>>This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer of the same 
>>people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
>>
>>Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think this 
>>needs real time discussion)
>>
>>-Jon
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>
>>1. 
>>http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
>>
>>___
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>>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential, proprietary 
>>and intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. 
>>If you have received this email in error please delete it immediately.
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>>
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>intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
>you have received this email in error please delete it immediately.
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Kruithof, Piet]

OK - thanks!  It actually works for the OpenStack UX team because we have
folks in most of those regions that would be able to attend.

It¹s worth noting that we should be consistent in how the operators are
engaged during the meetings so that the team is able to generalize across
regions. 

Piet




Piet Kruithof
Sr UX Architect, HP Helion Cloud
PTL, OpenStack UX project


"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and
wrong.²

H L Menken





On 11/16/15, 10:06 AM, "Jonathan Proulx" <j...@csail.mit.edu> wrote:

>On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 04:55:33PM +, Kruithof, Piet wrote:
>:Sorry, late to the conversation and maybe missing a bit of context.
>:
>:How may regional meetings are we thinking?  2-3? Or more?
>
>My basic question was One or Many.
>
>If Many then that's a further question, but probably 3 (north america,
>asia, europe)  or possibly 4 (+ south america)
>
>:
>:Piet
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:Piet Kruithof
>:Sr UX Architect, HP Helion Cloud
>:PTL, OpenStack UX project
>:
>:"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and
>wrong.²
>:
>:H L Menken
>:
>:
>:From: Matt Jarvis
><matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk<mailto:matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk>>
>:Date: Monday, November 16, 2015 at 9:23 AM
>:To: Jonathan Proulx <j...@csail.mit.edu<mailto:j...@csail.mit.edu>>
>:Cc: 
>"openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-operators@lists.
>openstack.org>" 
><openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-operators@lists.
>openstack.org>>
>:Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
>:
>:+1 from me, although I am admittedly biased ;) Personally I think the
>wider participation in the ops feedback loop can only be a positive
>thing, and there are definitely different perspectives and concerns to be
>had from European operators given the different commercial landscape. I'm
>sure the same is also true for Asia.
>:
>:On 16 November 2015 at 15:50, Jonathan Proulx
><j...@csail.mit.edu<mailto:j...@csail.mit.edu>> wrote:
>:Hi All,
>:
>:1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
>:#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
>:hope to raise this issue the...
>:
>:It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
>:Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
>:all mid cycles have been US based.
>:
>:Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
>:than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
>:being 'opposite' the summit location.
>:
>:This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
>:of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
>:
>:Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
>:this needs real time discussion)
>:
>:-Jon
>:
>:
>:--
>:
>:1. 
>http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19
>405855436?aff=es2
>:
>:___
>:OpenStack-operators mailing list
>:OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org<mailto:OpenStack-operators@lists.
>openstack.org>
>:http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>:
>:
>:
>:--
>:Matt Jarvis
>:Head of Cloud Computing
>:DataCentred
>:Office: (+44)0161 8703985
>:Mobile: (+44)07983 725372
>:Email: 
>matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk<mailto:matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk>
>:Website: http://www.datacentred.co.uk
>:
>:DataCentred Limited registered in England and Wales no. 05611763
>
>-- 


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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Jonathan Proulx]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:37:59AM -0700, Matt Fischer wrote:
:I think that sticking with a singular official one is the plan. It's
:difficult enough for the foundation to line up sponsors/hosts etc for a
:single meet-up. 

Thanks for bring that up.

I was just wondering howmuch Foundation resources went into making
these go and if dividing that were even feasible.

Sounds like this is a strong argument for one 'official' midcycle

-Jon

:I also think that there are some US/Asia folks that will
:attend a midcycle in Europe and by also hosting a competing one locally you
:may reduce the attendance at the main one which defeats the purpose. Those
:midcycles work best when we have lots of different voices providing input.
:
:On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Jonathan Proulx <j...@csail.mit.edu> wrote:
:
:> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 04:55:33PM +, Kruithof, Piet wrote:
:> :Sorry, late to the conversation and maybe missing a bit of context.
:> :
:> :How may regional meetings are we thinking?  2-3? Or more?
:>
:> My basic question was One or Many.
:>
:> If Many then that's a further question, but probably 3 (north america,
:> asia, europe)  or possibly 4 (+ south america)
:>
:> :
:> :Piet
:> :
:> :
:> :
:> :
:> :Piet Kruithof
:> :Sr UX Architect, HP Helion Cloud
:> :PTL, OpenStack UX project
:> :
:> :"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and
:> wrong.”
:> :
:> :H L Menken
:> :
:> :
:> :From: Matt Jarvis <matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk>>
:> :Date: Monday, November 16, 2015 at 9:23 AM
:> :To: Jonathan Proulx <j...@csail.mit.edu<mailto:j...@csail.mit.edu>>
:> :Cc: "openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>" <
:> openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>>
:> :Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
:> :
:> :+1 from me, although I am admittedly biased ;) Personally I think the
:> wider participation in the ops feedback loop can only be a positive thing,
:> and there are definitely different perspectives and concerns to be had from
:> European operators given the different commercial landscape. I'm sure the
:> same is also true for Asia.
:> :
:> :On 16 November 2015 at 15:50, Jonathan Proulx <j...@csail.mit.edu j...@csail.mit.edu>> wrote:
:> :Hi All,
:> :
:> :1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
:> :#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
:> :hope to raise this issue the...
:> :
:> :It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
:> :Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
:> :all mid cycles have been US based.
:> :
:> :Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
:> :than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
:> :being 'opposite' the summit location.
:> :
:> :This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
:> :of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
:> :
:> :Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
:> :this needs real time discussion)
:> :
:> :-Jon
:> :
:> :
:> :--
:> :
:> :1.
:> 
http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
:> :
:> :___
:> :OpenStack-operators mailing list
:> :OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org>
:> :http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
:> :
:> :
:> :
:> :--
:> :Matt Jarvis
:> :Head of Cloud Computing
:> :DataCentred
:> :Office: (+44)0161 8703985
:> :Mobile: (+44)07983 725372
:> :Email: matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk<mailto:matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk
:> >
:> :Website: http://www.datacentred.co.uk
:> :
:> :DataCentred Limited registered in England and Wales no. 05611763
:>
:> --
:>
:> ___
:> OpenStack-operators mailing list
:> OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org
:> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
:>

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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Jonathan Proulx]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 04:55:33PM +, Kruithof, Piet wrote:
:Sorry, late to the conversation and maybe missing a bit of context.
:
:How may regional meetings are we thinking?  2-3? Or more?

My basic question was One or Many.

If Many then that's a further question, but probably 3 (north america,
asia, europe)  or possibly 4 (+ south america)

:
:Piet
:
:
:
:
:Piet Kruithof
:Sr UX Architect, HP Helion Cloud
:PTL, OpenStack UX project
:
:"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and 
wrong.”
:
:H L Menken
:
:
:From: Matt Jarvis 
<matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk<mailto:matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk>>
:Date: Monday, November 16, 2015 at 9:23 AM
:To: Jonathan Proulx <j...@csail.mit.edu<mailto:j...@csail.mit.edu>>
:Cc: 
"openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>"
 
<openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>>
:Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
:
:+1 from me, although I am admittedly biased ;) Personally I think the wider 
participation in the ops feedback loop can only be a positive thing, and there 
are definitely different perspectives and concerns to be had from European 
operators given the different commercial landscape. I'm sure the same is also 
true for Asia.
:
:On 16 November 2015 at 15:50, Jonathan Proulx 
<j...@csail.mit.edu<mailto:j...@csail.mit.edu>> wrote:
:Hi All,
:
:1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
:#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
:hope to raise this issue the...
:
:It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
:Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
:all mid cycles have been US based.
:
:Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
:than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
:being 'opposite' the summit location.
:
:This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
:of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
:
:Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
:this needs real time discussion)
:
:-Jon
:
:
:--
:
:1. 
http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
:
:___
:OpenStack-operators mailing list
:OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org<mailto:OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org>
:http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
:
:
:
:--
:Matt Jarvis
:Head of Cloud Computing
:DataCentred
:Office: (+44)0161 8703985
:Mobile: (+44)07983 725372
:Email: matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk<mailto:matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk>
:Website: http://www.datacentred.co.uk
:
:DataCentred Limited registered in England and Wales no. 05611763

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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Matt Fischer]

I think that sticking with a singular official one is the plan. It's
difficult enough for the foundation to line up sponsors/hosts etc for a
single meet-up. I also think that there are some US/Asia folks that will
attend a midcycle in Europe and by also hosting a competing one locally you
may reduce the attendance at the main one which defeats the purpose. Those
midcycles work best when we have lots of different voices providing input.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Jonathan Proulx <j...@csail.mit.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 04:55:33PM +, Kruithof, Piet wrote:
> :Sorry, late to the conversation and maybe missing a bit of context.
> :
> :How may regional meetings are we thinking?  2-3? Or more?
>
> My basic question was One or Many.
>
> If Many then that's a further question, but probably 3 (north america,
> asia, europe)  or possibly 4 (+ south america)
>
> :
> :Piet
> :
> :
> :
> :
> :Piet Kruithof
> :Sr UX Architect, HP Helion Cloud
> :PTL, OpenStack UX project
> :
> :"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and
> wrong.”
> :
> :H L Menken
> :
> :
> :From: Matt Jarvis <matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk>>
> :Date: Monday, November 16, 2015 at 9:23 AM
> :To: Jonathan Proulx <j...@csail.mit.edu<mailto:j...@csail.mit.edu>>
> :Cc: "openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>" <
> openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>>
> :Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
> :
> :+1 from me, although I am admittedly biased ;) Personally I think the
> wider participation in the ops feedback loop can only be a positive thing,
> and there are definitely different perspectives and concerns to be had from
> European operators given the different commercial landscape. I'm sure the
> same is also true for Asia.
> :
> :On 16 November 2015 at 15:50, Jonathan Proulx <j...@csail.mit.edu j...@csail.mit.edu>> wrote:
> :Hi All,
> :
> :1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
> :#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
> :hope to raise this issue the...
> :
> :It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
> :Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
> :all mid cycles have been US based.
> :
> :Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
> :than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
> :being 'opposite' the summit location.
> :
> :This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
> :of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
> :
> :Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
> :this needs real time discussion)
> :
> :-Jon
> :
> :
> :--
> :
> :1.
> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
> :
> :___
> :OpenStack-operators mailing list
> :OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org>
> :http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
> :
> :
> :
> :--
> :Matt Jarvis
> :Head of Cloud Computing
> :DataCentred
> :Office: (+44)0161 8703985
> :Mobile: (+44)07983 725372
> :Email: matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk<mailto:matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk
> >
> :Website: http://www.datacentred.co.uk
> :
> :DataCentred Limited registered in England and Wales no. 05611763
>
> --
>
> ___
> OpenStack-operators mailing list
> OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Joe Topjian]

+1 Option 1

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:01 AM, Jonathan Proulx  wrote:

>
> Let me restate the question a bit as I think I'm hearing two different
> responses that may be getting conflated.
>
> Option 1:  There's a single Ops Midcycle that shifts around and we
> look at ways to increase remote participation. (obviously this doesn't
> preclude other meetups)
>
> Option 2: There are multiple Ops Meetups around midcycle (presumably
> starting with North America, Asia, and Europe) and we look at ways of
> coordinationg those re reduce duplication of effort any synthesis of
> results.
>
> I was advocating option 1 mostly because I think synthesis of option 2
> is harder than stepping up preparation of etherpads before sessions
> and review of them afterward is which is motly the level of remote
> participation I'd envision in the first case (possibly also running
> some email threads on any reccommendations that come out and seem
> controvertial for any reason)
>
> So far though seems the tide is runiing toward option 2, multiple
> meet-ups. Though wee're still at a very small sample size.
>
> -Jon
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:50:52AM -0500, Jonathan Proulx wrote:
> :Hi All,
> :
> :1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
> :#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
> :hope to raise this issue the...
> :
> :It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
> :Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
> :all mid cycles have been US based.
> :
> :Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
> :than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
> :being 'opposite' the summit location.
> :
> :This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
> :of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
> :
> :Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
> :this needs real time discussion)
> :
> :-Jon
> :
> :
> :--
> :
> :1.
> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
>
> --
>
> ___
> OpenStack-operators mailing list
> OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Donald Talton]

I’ll +1 option 1 too, if we can get remote participation that would suffice.

From: Joe Topjian [mailto:j...@topjian.net]
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 12:57 PM
To: Jonathan Proulx
Cc: openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org
Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

+1 Option 1

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:01 AM, Jonathan Proulx 
<j...@csail.mit.edu<mailto:j...@csail.mit.edu>> wrote:

Let me restate the question a bit as I think I'm hearing two different
responses that may be getting conflated.

Option 1:  There's a single Ops Midcycle that shifts around and we
look at ways to increase remote participation. (obviously this doesn't
preclude other meetups)

Option 2: There are multiple Ops Meetups around midcycle (presumably
starting with North America, Asia, and Europe) and we look at ways of
coordinationg those re reduce duplication of effort any synthesis of
results.

I was advocating option 1 mostly because I think synthesis of option 2
is harder than stepping up preparation of etherpads before sessions
and review of them afterward is which is motly the level of remote
participation I'd envision in the first case (possibly also running
some email threads on any reccommendations that come out and seem
controvertial for any reason)

So far though seems the tide is runiing toward option 2, multiple
meet-ups. Though wee're still at a very small sample size.

-Jon


On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:50:52AM -0500, Jonathan Proulx wrote:
:Hi All,
:
:1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
:#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
:hope to raise this issue the...
:
:It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
:Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
:all mid cycles have been US based.
:
:Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
:than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
:being 'opposite' the summit location.
:
:This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
:of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
:
:Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
:this needs real time discussion)
:
:-Jon
:
:
:--
:
:1. 
http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2

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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Jesse Keating]

I second Matt's opinion here. We would prefer a singular meeting,
regardless of location.


- jlk

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 9:37 AM, Matt Fischer <m...@mattfischer.com> wrote:

> I think that sticking with a singular official one is the plan. It's
> difficult enough for the foundation to line up sponsors/hosts etc for a
> single meet-up. I also think that there are some US/Asia folks that will
> attend a midcycle in Europe and by also hosting a competing one locally you
> may reduce the attendance at the main one which defeats the purpose. Those
> midcycles work best when we have lots of different voices providing input.
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Jonathan Proulx <j...@csail.mit.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 04:55:33PM +, Kruithof, Piet wrote:
>> :Sorry, late to the conversation and maybe missing a bit of context.
>> :
>> :How may regional meetings are we thinking?  2-3? Or more?
>>
>> My basic question was One or Many.
>>
>> If Many then that's a further question, but probably 3 (north america,
>> asia, europe)  or possibly 4 (+ south america)
>>
>> :
>> :Piet
>> :
>> :
>> :
>> :
>> :Piet Kruithof
>> :Sr UX Architect, HP Helion Cloud
>> :PTL, OpenStack UX project
>> :
>> :"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and
>> wrong.”
>> :
>> :H L Menken
>> :
>> :
>> :From: Matt Jarvis <matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk> matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk>>
>> :Date: Monday, November 16, 2015 at 9:23 AM
>> :To: Jonathan Proulx <j...@csail.mit.edu<mailto:j...@csail.mit.edu>>
>> :Cc: "openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org> openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>" <
>> openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org> openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>>
>> :Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
>> :
>> :+1 from me, although I am admittedly biased ;) Personally I think the
>> wider participation in the ops feedback loop can only be a positive thing,
>> and there are definitely different perspectives and concerns to be had from
>> European operators given the different commercial landscape. I'm sure the
>> same is also true for Asia.
>> :
>> :On 16 November 2015 at 15:50, Jonathan Proulx <j...@csail.mit.edu> j...@csail.mit.edu>> wrote:
>> :Hi All,
>> :
>> :1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
>> :#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
>> :hope to raise this issue the...
>> :
>> :It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
>> :Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
>> :all mid cycles have been US based.
>> :
>> :Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
>> :than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
>> :being 'opposite' the summit location.
>> :
>> :This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
>> :of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
>> :
>> :Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
>> :this needs real time discussion)
>> :
>> :-Jon
>> :
>> :
>> :--
>> :
>> :1.
>> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
>> :
>> :___
>> :OpenStack-operators mailing list
>> :OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org> OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org>
>> :http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>> :
>> :
>> :
>> :--
>> :Matt Jarvis
>> :Head of Cloud Computing
>> :DataCentred
>> :Office: (+44)0161 8703985
>> :Mobile: (+44)07983 725372
>> :Email: matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk> matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk>
>> :Website: http://www.datacentred.co.uk
>> :
>> :DataCentred Limited registered in England and Wales no. 05611763
>>
>> --
>>
>> ___
>> OpenStack-operators mailing list
>> OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org
>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>>
>
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Anne Gentle]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Jonathan Proulx  wrote:

>
> Let me restate the question a bit as I think I'm hearing two different
> responses that may be getting conflated.
>
> Option 1:  There's a single Ops Midcycle that shifts around and we
> look at ways to increase remote participation. (obviously this doesn't
> preclude other meetups)
>
> Option 2: There are multiple Ops Meetups around midcycle (presumably
> starting with North America, Asia, and Europe) and we look at ways of
> coordinationg those re reduce duplication of effort any synthesis of
> results.
>
>

Hey all, I wanted to point to a bit of data from last year when I
interviewed a bunch of teams about their midcycles.

http://www.openstack.org/blog/2014/12/studying-midcycle-sprints-and-meetings/

- Midcycles are more valuable in the early days of forming teams.
- Best quality meetings tend to be sprint-oriented with real work getting
done and a specific outcome in mind.
- Often there’s a choice implied in choosing what an individual travels to;
adding a midcycle sprint means a choice has to be made.
- Virtual aspects of a midcycle require additional support such as open
source tooling, or if using non-open source tooling, you must get agreement
from participants.

Wanted to share since I think you'll find it relevant.
Anne


> I was advocating option 1 mostly because I think synthesis of option 2
> is harder than stepping up preparation of etherpads before sessions
> and review of them afterward is which is motly the level of remote
> participation I'd envision in the first case (possibly also running
> some email threads on any reccommendations that come out and seem
> controvertial for any reason)
>
> So far though seems the tide is runiing toward option 2, multiple
> meet-ups. Though wee're still at a very small sample size.
>
> -Jon
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:50:52AM -0500, Jonathan Proulx wrote:
> :Hi All,
> :
> :1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
> :#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
> :hope to raise this issue the...
> :
> :It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
> :Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
> :all mid cycles have been US based.
> :
> :Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
> :than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
> :being 'opposite' the summit location.
> :
> :This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
> :of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
> :
> :Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
> :this needs real time discussion)
> :
> :-Jon
> :
> :
> :--
> :
> :1.
> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
>
> --
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-- 
Anne Gentle
Rackspace
Principal Engineer
www.justwriteclick.com
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Curtis]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Shamail  wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> On Nov 16, 2015, at 7:01 PM, Jonathan Proulx  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Let me restate the question a bit as I think I'm hearing two different
>> responses that may be getting conflated.
>>
>> Option 1:  There's a single Ops Midcycle that shifts around and we
>> look at ways to increase remote participation. (obviously this doesn't
>> preclude other meetups)
> How about one "official" mid-cycle (following trend of most other 
> projects/groups) but regional ops groups can pick up the etherpads and dive 
> deeper into topics of interest at the regional level?
>
> Essentially a hub/spoke where each meetup adds content to the same etherpads, 
> etc. thus allowing topics to emerge once per cycle and be worked/discussed 
> iteratively.

I think I would prefer a hub and spoke style of some kind as well, not
sure what that exactly would look like though. Perhaps that just means
the first option that was laid out, which mentions not precluding
other regional operator meetups. I'm quite interested in the
Manchester meetup because I think operators there will be deploying
clouds more like the one I do. My two cents. :)

Thanks,
Curtis.

>>
>> Option 2: There are multiple Ops Meetups around midcycle (presumably
>> starting with North America, Asia, and Europe) and we look at ways of
>> coordinationg those re reduce duplication of effort any synthesis of
>> results.
>>
>> I was advocating option 1 mostly because I think synthesis of option 2
>> is harder than stepping up preparation of etherpads before sessions
>> and review of them afterward is which is motly the level of remote
>> participation I'd envision in the first case (possibly also running
>> some email threads on any reccommendations that come out and seem
>> controvertial for any reason)
>>
>> So far though seems the tide is runiing toward option 2, multiple
>> meet-ups. Though wee're still at a very small sample size.
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:50:52AM -0500, Jonathan Proulx wrote:
>> :Hi All,
>> :
>> :1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
>> :#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
>> :hope to raise this issue the...
>> :
>> :It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
>> :Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
>> :all mid cycles have been US based.
>> :
>> :Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
>> :than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
>> :being 'opposite' the summit location.
>> :
>> :This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
>> :of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
>> :
>> :Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
>> :this needs real time discussion)
>> :
>> :-Jon
>> :
>> :
>> :--
>> :
>> :1. 
>> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
>>
>> --
>>
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