Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

[Al Morton]

Hi all, I was confused about “IRC-only”, too.

Audio is essential, and I believe we should use
our meeting/audio time to quickly close on issues already
discussed by e-mail (or review in other media),
as we are doing now...

It occurred to me that Etherpad is not on our list
for notetaking possibilities. Live editing during a
meeting would be more interactive than IRC or Wiki,
but Etherpad has none of IRC’s features for
meeting management
(?? someone please tell me I’m wrong about this!).

Many IETF WGs use Etherpad for Notetaking/Minutes, and
IETF has been recording meetings for over ten years.
I have listened to recordings when the notes fell short.
I haven’t found an instance like this for a TSC call
(when I wished for an audio recording).

A statement in the agenda and read-out during the recording
usually suffices: “This meeting is being recorded.
If you do not consent to being recorded, you must leave
the meeting (now).” ( or keep your audio muted throughout
the meeting?)

Recording is possible and used frequently, but IANAL
and I don’t currently see a need to record TSC meetings,
so I would prefer to avoid this complexity at TSC.
Collaborative minutes capturing key discussion points
and votes or agreements are sufficient for me.

Al

From: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org [mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org] On Behalf Of 
HU, BIN
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 4:13 PM
To: Trevor Cooper ; Mark Beierl ; 
Georg Kunz ; Manuel Buil ; 
opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

***Security Advisory: This Message Originated Outside of AT&T ***
Reference http://cso.att.com/EmailSecurity/IDSP.html for more information.
I think there are legal issues of recoding a meeting without everyone’s consent.

Take a look at: 
https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/RECORDING-CONVERSATIONS-CHART.pdf<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.mwl-2Dlaw.com_wp-2Dcontent_uploads_2018_02_RECORDING-2DCONVERSATIONS-2DCHART.pdf&d=DwMGaQ&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=OfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=byZgbZlfvBI66Q5uehySaRQk2xR5-k-WsLeaTJ6Rkq8&s=86hErqeHJBvnUnMUy8HLpZN-Wbdbxci7q_p2PDfTxdI&e=>
 “LAWS ON RECORDING CONVERSATIONS IN ALL 50 STATES”:
-All-Party Consent applies to “California, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, 
Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and 
Washington”
-For “Interstate/Multi-State Phone Calls”, especially persons in many 
countries are involved, it becomes very complicated.

So there is huge legal risk if we want to record a meeting without everyone’s 
consent.

Just FYI.

Thanks
Bin

From: 
opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>> 
On Behalf Of Trevor Cooper
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 12:46 PM
To: Mark Beierl mailto:mbei...@vmware.com>>; Georg Kunz 
mailto:georg.k...@ericsson.com>>; Manuel Buil 
mailto:mb...@suse.com>>; 
opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

Hey Mark …

Hmmm … so perhaps there is misunderstanding about the vote … I think you are 
saying the vote will NOT impact audio as the primary meeting format i.e. 
regardless of the vote outcome we will continue with audio for TSC calls. The 
vote is ONLY about meeting notes i.e.

IRC only = notes are only taken with IRC
IRC + recording = note are taken using IRC and meetings are recorded.

I also don’t mind recordings as extra BUT IMO 1) it is rarely useful if there 
are good notes and it detracts from taking good notes; 2) media still needs to 
be posted with the meeting agenda on Wiki.

/Trevor

From: Mark Beierl mailto:mbei...@vmware.com>>
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 11:41 AM
To: Georg Kunz mailto:georg.k...@ericsson.com>>; 
Manuel Buil mailto:mb...@suse.com>>; 
opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>; 
Cooper, Trevor mailto:trevor.coo...@intel.com>>
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

Thanks, Georg.

Note The vote options that are coming up are:
·IRC only
·IRC + recording of the Zoom.

The vote is not to remove the IRC minutes, but just to supplement them with the 
zoom recording.

Regards,
Mark

From: Georg Kunz mailto:georg.k...@ericsson.com>>
Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 16:07
To: Manuel Buil mailto:mb...@suse.com>>, 
"opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>" 
mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>>,
 Mark Beierl mailto:mbei...@vmware.com>>, 
"trevor.coo...@intel.com<mailto:trevor.coo...

Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

[HU, BIN]

I think there are legal issues of recoding a meeting without everyone’s consent.

Take a look at: 
https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/RECORDING-CONVERSATIONS-CHART.pdf
 “LAWS ON RECORDING CONVERSATIONS IN ALL 50 STATES”:

  *   All-Party Consent applies to “California, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, 
Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and 
Washington”
  *   For “Interstate/Multi-State Phone Calls”, especially persons in many 
countries are involved, it becomes very complicated.

So there is huge legal risk if we want to record a meeting without everyone’s 
consent.

Just FYI.

Thanks
Bin

From: opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org  
On Behalf Of Trevor Cooper
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 12:46 PM
To: Mark Beierl ; Georg Kunz ; 
Manuel Buil ; opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

Hey Mark …

Hmmm … so perhaps there is misunderstanding about the vote … I think you are 
saying the vote will NOT impact audio as the primary meeting format i.e. 
regardless of the vote outcome we will continue with audio for TSC calls. The 
vote is ONLY about meeting notes i.e.

IRC only = notes are only taken with IRC
IRC + recording = note are taken using IRC and meetings are recorded.

I also don’t mind recordings as extra BUT IMO 1) it is rarely useful if there 
are good notes and it detracts from taking good notes; 2) media still needs to 
be posted with the meeting agenda on Wiki.

/Trevor

From: Mark Beierl mailto:mbei...@vmware.com>>
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 11:41 AM
To: Georg Kunz mailto:georg.k...@ericsson.com>>; 
Manuel Buil mailto:mb...@suse.com>>; 
opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>; 
Cooper, Trevor mailto:trevor.coo...@intel.com>>
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

Thanks, Georg.

Note The vote options that are coming up are:

  *   IRC only
  *   IRC + recording of the Zoom.

The vote is not to remove the IRC minutes, but just to supplement them with the 
zoom recording.

Regards,
Mark

From: Georg Kunz mailto:georg.k...@ericsson.com>>
Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 16:07
To: Manuel Buil mailto:mb...@suse.com>>, 
"opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>" 
mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>>,
 Mark Beierl mailto:mbei...@vmware.com>>, 
"trevor.coo...@intel.com<mailto:trevor.coo...@intel.com>" 
mailto:trevor.coo...@intel.com>>
Cc: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>" 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>>
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

Hi all,

I think we cannot simply move to IRC-only meetings without adapting our 
ways-of-working in some respect. When looking at communities which use IRC-only 
meetings, there is also a stronger use of complementary tools to facilitate a 
reviewing process of a proposal, for example specs get reviewed in detail on 
Gerrit and (optionally) brought to IRC meetings once the majority of questions 
have been discussed. I find it hard to discuss complex issues on IRC only and 
in an ad-hoc fashion without such a round of asynchronous in-depth reviews (my 
personal opinion).

I this context, I very much like Manuel's proposal to use such a mechanism for 
reviewing (project) proposals in addition to the voice calls we have today.

Also, recordings are no efficient replacement for written notes. I don't mind 
recording the meetings to make sure we really capture everything, but it is not 
a good means of documenting results.

Best regards
Georg

From: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>> on behalf of 
Trevor Cooper via Lists.Opnfv.Org 
mailto:trevor.cooper=intel@lists.opnfv.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 6:04 PM
To: Manuel Buil mailto:mb...@suse.com>>; 
opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>>;
 mbei...@vmware.com<mailto:mbei...@vmware.com> 
mailto:mbei...@vmware.com>>
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>>
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts


This discussion is only about TSC meetings and all projects are free to choose 
their own communication tools.



I have been part of forums with IRC only meetings that were very effective 
however they were more technical meetings and problem focused. I don’t think 
that IRC only (no audio) works well for the type of planning, review, strategy 
and other discussion topics we cover in the TSC.

Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

[Trevor Cooper]

Hey Mark …

Hmmm … so perhaps there is misunderstanding about the vote … I think you are 
saying the vote will NOT impact audio as the primary meeting format i.e. 
regardless of the vote outcome we will continue with audio for TSC calls. The 
vote is ONLY about meeting notes i.e.

IRC only = notes are only taken with IRC
IRC + recording = note are taken using IRC and meetings are recorded.

I also don’t mind recordings as extra BUT IMO 1) it is rarely useful if there 
are good notes and it detracts from taking good notes; 2) media still needs to 
be posted with the meeting agenda on Wiki.

/Trevor

From: Mark Beierl 
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 11:41 AM
To: Georg Kunz ; Manuel Buil ; 
opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org; Cooper, Trevor 
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

Thanks, Georg.

Note The vote options that are coming up are:

  *   IRC only
  *   IRC + recording of the Zoom.

The vote is not to remove the IRC minutes, but just to supplement them with the 
zoom recording.

Regards,
Mark

From: Georg Kunz mailto:georg.k...@ericsson.com>>
Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 16:07
To: Manuel Buil mailto:mb...@suse.com>>, 
"opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>" 
mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>>,
 Mark Beierl mailto:mbei...@vmware.com>>, 
"trevor.coo...@intel.com<mailto:trevor.coo...@intel.com>" 
mailto:trevor.coo...@intel.com>>
Cc: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>" 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>>
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

Hi all,

I think we cannot simply move to IRC-only meetings without adapting our 
ways-of-working in some respect. When looking at communities which use IRC-only 
meetings, there is also a stronger use of complementary tools to facilitate a 
reviewing process of a proposal, for example specs get reviewed in detail on 
Gerrit and (optionally) brought to IRC meetings once the majority of questions 
have been discussed. I find it hard to discuss complex issues on IRC only and 
in an ad-hoc fashion without such a round of asynchronous in-depth reviews (my 
personal opinion).

I this context, I very much like Manuel's proposal to use such a mechanism for 
reviewing (project) proposals in addition to the voice calls we have today.

Also, recordings are no efficient replacement for written notes. I don't mind 
recording the meetings to make sure we really capture everything, but it is not 
a good means of documenting results.

Best regards
Georg

From: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>> on behalf of 
Trevor Cooper via Lists.Opnfv.Org 
mailto:trevor.cooper=intel@lists.opnfv.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 6:04 PM
To: Manuel Buil mailto:mb...@suse.com>>; 
opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>>;
 mbei...@vmware.com<mailto:mbei...@vmware.com> 
mailto:mbei...@vmware.com>>
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>>
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts


This discussion is only about TSC meetings and all projects are free to choose 
their own communication tools.



I have been part of forums with IRC only meetings that were very effective 
however they were more technical meetings and problem focused. I don’t think 
that IRC only (no audio) works well for the type of planning, review, strategy 
and other discussion topics we cover in the TSC.



It seems to me that some time ago our TSC meeting notes were very effective and 
efficient … this was when notes were mostly captured by IRC with the bulk of 
the responsibility for this on the PM (Ray at the time) and with the TSC 
members providing supplemental comments, additional notes and corrections. 
Presentations and other rich media were posted on the Wiki with the agenda for 
that meeting so always easy to find. Losing our PM caused the burden for 
meeting notes to shift to TSC members. IMO taking notes is within the scope of 
what we can reasonably expect from the PM role.



Recording IMO is not effective … in my experience few if any go back to review 
a recording, invariably they just ask their questions to somebody who was at 
the meeting which is far more efficient from their perspective. I also think 
that recording negatively impacts quality of other notes and meeting artifacts 
including links, presentations etc. since its assumed that everything is 
available in the recording.



/Trevor















From: 
opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.

Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

[Mark Beierl via Lists.Opnfv.Org]

Thanks, Georg.

Note The vote options that are coming up are:

  *   IRC only
  *   IRC + recording of the Zoom.

The vote is not to remove the IRC minutes, but just to supplement them with the 
zoom recording.

Regards,
Mark

From: Georg Kunz 
Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 16:07
To: Manuel Buil , "opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org" 
, Mark Beierl , 
"trevor.coo...@intel.com" 
Cc: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org" 
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

Hi all,

I think we cannot simply move to IRC-only meetings without adapting our 
ways-of-working in some respect. When looking at communities which use IRC-only 
meetings, there is also a stronger use of complementary tools to facilitate a 
reviewing process of a proposal, for example specs get reviewed in detail on 
Gerrit and (optionally) brought to IRC meetings once the majority of questions 
have been discussed. I find it hard to discuss complex issues on IRC only and 
in an ad-hoc fashion without such a round of asynchronous in-depth reviews (my 
personal opinion).

I this context, I very much like Manuel's proposal to use such a mechanism for 
reviewing (project) proposals in addition to the voice calls we have today.

Also, recordings are no efficient replacement for written notes. I don't mind 
recording the meetings to make sure we really capture everything, but it is not 
a good means of documenting results.

Best regards
Georg

From: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org  on behalf of Trevor 
Cooper via Lists.Opnfv.Org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 6:04 PM
To: Manuel Buil ; opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org 
; mbei...@vmware.com 
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org 
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts


This discussion is only about TSC meetings and all projects are free to choose 
their own communication tools.



I have been part of forums with IRC only meetings that were very effective 
however they were more technical meetings and problem focused. I don’t think 
that IRC only (no audio) works well for the type of planning, review, strategy 
and other discussion topics we cover in the TSC.



It seems to me that some time ago our TSC meeting notes were very effective and 
efficient … this was when notes were mostly captured by IRC with the bulk of 
the responsibility for this on the PM (Ray at the time) and with the TSC 
members providing supplemental comments, additional notes and corrections. 
Presentations and other rich media were posted on the Wiki with the agenda for 
that meeting so always easy to find. Losing our PM caused the burden for 
meeting notes to shift to TSC members. IMO taking notes is within the scope of 
what we can reasonably expect from the PM role.



Recording IMO is not effective … in my experience few if any go back to review 
a recording, invariably they just ask their questions to somebody who was at 
the meeting which is far more efficient from their perspective. I also think 
that recording negatively impacts quality of other notes and meeting artifacts 
including links, presentations etc. since its assumed that everything is 
available in the recording.



/Trevor















From: opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org  
On Behalf Of Manuel Buil
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 6:00 AM
To: opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org; mbei...@vmware.com
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts



Hello,



If we move to IRC-only meetings we will not able able to present slides or 
share documents and talk about them, right?. Would there be a way to fill this 
gap?



If we post the recording, does that mean that there will not be any MoMs 
anymore (in written format)?



Regards,

Manuel



From: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>> on behalf of Mark 
Beierl via Lists.Opnfv.Org 
mailto:mbeierl=vmware@lists.opnfv.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 2:26 PM
To: 
opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>>
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>>
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts



Expanding to include the broader community.



We are seeking feedback on what level of information capture the TSC should 
provide.  This has been a discussion that has been going on for a while now, so 
please give this your prompt attention.



Regards,

Mark



From: mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>> on behalf 
of "Mark Beierl via Lists.Opnfv.Org" 
mailto:mbeierl=vmware@lists.opnfv.org>>
Reply-To: Mark Beierl mailto:mbei...@vmware.com>>
Date: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 10:35
To: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...

Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

[Jim Baker]

It is generally considered a best practice in LFN to record meetings where
decisions are being made. Recordings of meetings are beneficial as a public
record of the discussions leading to a decision (often not captured in ANY
minutes) AND helpful to non-native English speakers for the ability to
review. I personally have used them to revisit the lead up to a decision
and understand the nuance.

Many open source communities manage their own meetings and take their own
minutes. I would encourage you to take a moment and review the O-RAN TOC
call
<https://wiki.o-ran-sc.org/display/TOC/2019+09+25?preview=/1179656/1179948/zoom_0.mp4>
-
you will see a technical leadership manage their own agenda/take their own
minutes/and record the meeting. Remember our mission as leadership of an
open source community project is to provide an inclusive place for all
contributions. We should seek to be easier to access, not more arcane and
unapproachable.
FWIW,
Jim

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 2:07 PM Georg Kunz via Lists.Opnfv.Org  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I think we cannot simply move to IRC-only meetings without adapting our
> ways-of-working in some respect. When looking at communities which use
> IRC-only meetings, there is also a stronger use of complementary tools to
> facilitate a reviewing process of a proposal, for example specs get
> reviewed in detail on Gerrit and (optionally) brought to IRC meetings once
> the majority of questions have been discussed. I find it hard to discuss
> complex issues on IRC only and in an ad-hoc fashion without such a round of
> asynchronous in-depth reviews (my personal opinion).
>
> I this context, I very much like Manuel's proposal to use such a mechanism
> for reviewing (project) proposals in addition to the voice calls we have
> today.
>
> Also, recordings are no efficient replacement for written notes. I don't
> mind recording the meetings to make sure we really capture everything, but
> it is not a good means of documenting results.
>
> Best regards
> Georg
> --
> *From:* opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org  on behalf
> of Trevor Cooper via Lists.Opnfv.Org  intel@lists.opnfv.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 9, 2019 6:04 PM
> *To:* Manuel Buil ; opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org <
> opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>; mbei...@vmware.com <
> mbei...@vmware.com>
> *Cc:* opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org 
> *Subject:* Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts
>
>
> This discussion is only about TSC meetings and all projects are free to
> choose their own communication tools.
>
>
>
> I have been part of forums with IRC only meetings that were very effective
> however they were more technical meetings and problem focused. I don’t
> think that IRC only (no audio) works well for the type of planning, review,
> strategy and other discussion topics we cover in the TSC.
>
>
>
> It seems to me that some time ago our TSC meeting notes were very
> effective and efficient … this was when notes were mostly captured by IRC
> with the bulk of the responsibility for this on the PM (Ray at the time)
> and with the TSC members providing supplemental comments, additional notes
> and corrections. Presentations and other rich media were posted on the Wiki
> with the agenda for that meeting so always easy to find. Losing our PM
> caused the burden for meeting notes to shift to TSC members. IMO taking
> notes is within the scope of what we can reasonably expect from the PM role.
>
>
>
> Recording IMO is not effective … in my experience few if any go back to
> review a recording, invariably they just ask their questions to somebody
> who was at the meeting which is far more efficient from their perspective.
> I also think that recording negatively impacts quality of other notes and
> meeting artifacts including links, presentations etc. since its assumed
> that everything is available in the recording.
>
>
>
> /Trevor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org <
> opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org> *On Behalf Of *Manuel Buil
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 9, 2019 6:00 AM
> *To:* opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org; mbei...@vmware.com
> *Cc:* opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org
> *Subject:* Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> If we move to IRC-only meetings we will not able able to present slides or
> share documents and talk about them, right?. Would there be a way to fill
> this gap?
>
>
>
> If we post the recording, does that mean that there will not be any MoMs
> anymore (in written format)?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Manuel
> --
>
&

Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

[Georg Kunz via Lists.Opnfv.Org]

Hi all,

I think we cannot simply move to IRC-only meetings without adapting our 
ways-of-working in some respect. When looking at communities which use IRC-only 
meetings, there is also a stronger use of complementary tools to facilitate a 
reviewing process of a proposal, for example specs get reviewed in detail on 
Gerrit and (optionally) brought to IRC meetings once the majority of questions 
have been discussed. I find it hard to discuss complex issues on IRC only and 
in an ad-hoc fashion without such a round of asynchronous in-depth reviews (my 
personal opinion).

I this context, I very much like Manuel's proposal to use such a mechanism for 
reviewing (project) proposals in addition to the voice calls we have today.

Also, recordings are no efficient replacement for written notes. I don't mind 
recording the meetings to make sure we really capture everything, but it is not 
a good means of documenting results.

Best regards
Georg

From: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org  on behalf of Trevor 
Cooper via Lists.Opnfv.Org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 6:04 PM
To: Manuel Buil ; opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org 
; mbei...@vmware.com 
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org 
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts


This discussion is only about TSC meetings and all projects are free to choose 
their own communication tools.



I have been part of forums with IRC only meetings that were very effective 
however they were more technical meetings and problem focused. I don’t think 
that IRC only (no audio) works well for the type of planning, review, strategy 
and other discussion topics we cover in the TSC.



It seems to me that some time ago our TSC meeting notes were very effective and 
efficient … this was when notes were mostly captured by IRC with the bulk of 
the responsibility for this on the PM (Ray at the time) and with the TSC 
members providing supplemental comments, additional notes and corrections. 
Presentations and other rich media were posted on the Wiki with the agenda for 
that meeting so always easy to find. Losing our PM caused the burden for 
meeting notes to shift to TSC members. IMO taking notes is within the scope of 
what we can reasonably expect from the PM role.



Recording IMO is not effective … in my experience few if any go back to review 
a recording, invariably they just ask their questions to somebody who was at 
the meeting which is far more efficient from their perspective. I also think 
that recording negatively impacts quality of other notes and meeting artifacts 
including links, presentations etc. since its assumed that everything is 
available in the recording.



/Trevor















From: opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org  
On Behalf Of Manuel Buil
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 6:00 AM
To: opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org; mbei...@vmware.com
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts



Hello,



If we move to IRC-only meetings we will not able able to present slides or 
share documents and talk about them, right?. Would there be a way to fill this 
gap?



If we post the recording, does that mean that there will not be any MoMs 
anymore (in written format)?



Regards,

Manuel



From: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>> on behalf of Mark 
Beierl via Lists.Opnfv.Org 
mailto:mbeierl=vmware@lists.opnfv.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 2:26 PM
To: 
opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>>
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>>
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts



Expanding to include the broader community.



We are seeking feedback on what level of information capture the TSC should 
provide.  This has been a discussion that has been going on for a while now, so 
please give this your prompt attention.



Regards,

Mark



From: mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>> on behalf 
of "Mark Beierl via Lists.Opnfv.Org" 
mailto:mbeierl=vmware@lists.opnfv.org>>
Reply-To: Mark Beierl mailto:mbei...@vmware.com>>
Date: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 10:35
To: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>" 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>>
Cc: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>" 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>>
Subject: [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts



Hello, all.



There has been some discussion about improving the accuracy of how we capture 
discussions in the TSC meeting.  Right now the only official record is the IRC 
meetbot logs, which requires that there is a note taker who can effectively 
transcribe all that discussions from the aud

Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

[Trevor Cooper]

This discussion is only about TSC meetings and all projects are free to choose 
their own communication tools.

I have been part of forums with IRC only meetings that were very effective 
however they were more technical meetings and problem focused. I don't think 
that IRC only (no audio) works well for the type of planning, review, strategy 
and other discussion topics we cover in the TSC.

It seems to me that some time ago our TSC meeting notes were very effective and 
efficient ... this was when notes were mostly captured by IRC with the bulk of 
the responsibility for this on the PM (Ray at the time) and with the TSC 
members providing supplemental comments, additional notes and corrections. 
Presentations and other rich media were posted on the Wiki with the agenda for 
that meeting so always easy to find. Losing our PM caused the burden for 
meeting notes to shift to TSC members. IMO taking notes is within the scope of 
what we can reasonably expect from the PM role.

Recording IMO is not effective ... in my experience few if any go back to 
review a recording, invariably they just ask their questions to somebody who 
was at the meeting which is far more efficient from their perspective. I also 
think that recording negatively impacts quality of other notes and meeting 
artifacts including links, presentations etc. since its assumed that everything 
is available in the recording.

/Trevor







From: opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org  
On Behalf Of Manuel Buil
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 6:00 AM
To: opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org; mbei...@vmware.com
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

Hello,

If we move to IRC-only meetings we will not able able to present slides or 
share documents and talk about them, right?. Would there be a way to fill this 
gap?

If we post the recording, does that mean that there will not be any MoMs 
anymore (in written format)?

Regards,
Manuel

From: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>> on behalf of Mark 
Beierl via Lists.Opnfv.Org 
mailto:mbeierl=vmware@lists.opnfv.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 2:26 PM
To: 
opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>>
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org> 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>>
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts


Expanding to include the broader community.



We are seeking feedback on what level of information capture the TSC should 
provide.  This has been a discussion that has been going on for a while now, so 
please give this your prompt attention.



Regards,

Mark



From: mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>> on behalf 
of "Mark Beierl via Lists.Opnfv.Org" 
mailto:mbeierl=vmware@lists.opnfv.org>>
Reply-To: Mark Beierl mailto:mbei...@vmware.com>>
Date: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 10:35
To: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>" 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>>
Cc: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org<mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>" 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>>
Subject: [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts



Hello, all.



There has been some discussion about improving the accuracy of how we capture 
discussions in the TSC meeting.  Right now the only official record is the IRC 
meetbot logs, which requires that there is a note taker who can effectively 
transcribe all that discussions from the audio portion of the Zoom bridge into 
IRC.  In addition to that, any presentations must also be posted via #link, and 
if they are not yet available, that information might be lost.



I think now is a time to open the discussion about how we as a community want 
to share the full content of our TSC meetings.  Some options are listed below:



  *   Record the Zoom meeting and post the recording as part of the official 
record
  *   Remove the Zoom portion and move to a pure IRC only meeting



There are advantages as disadvantages to both, so please reply with your 
comments.



Also, should this discussion be expanded to include the whole community to 
ensure we are meeting their requests for transparency?



Regards,

Mark Beierl
Telco Innovation Staff Solution Architect

mbei...@vmware.com<mailto:mbei...@vmware.com%0b>

[VMware]<http://www.vmware.com/>


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Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

[HU, BIN]

For IRC-only, my experience in some projects in other community is that the 
slides etc. need to be uploaded before the meeting. So presenter needs to 
provide a link in IRC, and everyone can get a copy of slides, and move forward 
while presenter presents the slides. Uploading slides before the meeting is 
always a good practice, although we never require that.

For recording, well, I don’t know if someone will be able to consistently and 
sustainably to take the notes in IRC with the best effort. At least, for 
myself, I might think “well, there is a recording, so why bother to spend time 
to take the minutes, because everyone can listen to recording”. Alternatively, 
someone needs to listen to the recording after the meeting, and write the 
scripts somewhere based on recording. It takes someone’s significant time and 
effort, and thus commitment to doing this.

Just my 2 cents as a community member.

Thanks
Bin

From: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org  On Behalf Of Mark 
Beierl via Lists.Opnfv.Org
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 6:11 AM
To: Manuel Buil ; opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

Thanks, Manuel for the feedback.

For IRC only, there does need to be a procedure defined on how to present 
visual content, such as slides.  I do not have any recommendation, so would 
look to those that prefer IRC only to give guidance.

For recording the Zoom call, it would be in addition to the IRC log.  The goal 
is to allow for others to be able to review what was said that might not have 
made it into the minutes, or to be able to see presented content as often the 
slide deck links do not get included in the IRC log.

Regards,
Mark

From: Manuel Buil mailto:mb...@suse.com>>
Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 09:04
To: 
"opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org" 
mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>>,
 Mark Beierl mailto:mbei...@vmware.com>>
Cc: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org" 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>>
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

Hello,

If we move to IRC-only meetings we will not able able to present slides or 
share documents and talk about them, right?. Would there be a way to fill this 
gap?

If we post the recording, does that mean that there will not be any MoMs 
anymore (in written format)?

Regards,
Manuel

From: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>> on behalf of Mark 
Beierl via Lists.Opnfv.Org 
mailto:mbeierl=vmware@lists.opnfv.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 2:26 PM
To: 
opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org 
mailto:opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org>>
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>>
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts


Expanding to include the broader community.



We are seeking feedback on what level of information capture the TSC should 
provide.  This has been a discussion that has been going on for a while now, so 
please give this your prompt attention.



Regards,

Mark



From: mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>> on behalf 
of "Mark Beierl via Lists.Opnfv.Org" 
mailto:mbeierl=vmware@lists.opnfv.org>>
Reply-To: Mark Beierl mailto:mbei...@vmware.com>>
Date: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 10:35
To: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org" 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>>
Cc: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org" 
mailto:opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org>>
Subject: [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts



Hello, all.



There has been some discussion about improving the accuracy of how we capture 
discussions in the TSC meeting.  Right now the only official record is the IRC 
meetbot logs, which requires that there is a note taker who can effectively 
transcribe all that discussions from the audio portion of the Zoom bridge into 
IRC.  In addition to that, any presentations must also be posted via #link, and 
if they are not yet available, that information might be lost.



I think now is a time to open the discussion about how we as a community want 
to share the full content of our TSC meetings.  Some options are listed below:



  *   Record the Zoom meeting and post the recording as part of the official 
record
  *   Remove the Zoom portion and move to a pure IRC only meeting



There are advantages as disadvantages to both, so please reply with your 
comments.



Also, should this discussion be expanded to include the whole community to 
ensure we are meeting their requests for transparency?



Regards,

Mark Beierl
Telco Innovation Staff Solution Architect

mbei...@vmware.com

[VMware]

Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

[Mark Beierl via Lists.Opnfv.Org]

Thanks, Manuel for the feedback.

For IRC only, there does need to be a procedure defined on how to present 
visual content, such as slides.  I do not have any recommendation, so would 
look to those that prefer IRC only to give guidance.

For recording the Zoom call, it would be in addition to the IRC log.  The goal 
is to allow for others to be able to review what was said that might not have 
made it into the minutes, or to be able to see presented content as often the 
slide deck links do not get included in the IRC log.

Regards,
Mark

From: Manuel Buil 
Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 09:04
To: "opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org" , 
Mark Beierl 
Cc: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org" 
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

Hello,

If we move to IRC-only meetings we will not able able to present slides or 
share documents and talk about them, right?. Would there be a way to fill this 
gap?

If we post the recording, does that mean that there will not be any MoMs 
anymore (in written format)?

Regards,
Manuel

From: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org  on behalf of Mark 
Beierl via Lists.Opnfv.Org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 2:26 PM
To: opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org 
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org 
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts


Expanding to include the broader community.



We are seeking feedback on what level of information capture the TSC should 
provide.  This has been a discussion that has been going on for a while now, so 
please give this your prompt attention.



Regards,

Mark



From:  on behalf of "Mark Beierl via 
Lists.Opnfv.Org" 
Reply-To: Mark Beierl 
Date: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 10:35
To: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org" 
Cc: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org" 
Subject: [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts



Hello, all.



There has been some discussion about improving the accuracy of how we capture 
discussions in the TSC meeting.  Right now the only official record is the IRC 
meetbot logs, which requires that there is a note taker who can effectively 
transcribe all that discussions from the audio portion of the Zoom bridge into 
IRC.  In addition to that, any presentations must also be posted via #link, and 
if they are not yet available, that information might be lost.



I think now is a time to open the discussion about how we as a community want 
to share the full content of our TSC meetings.  Some options are listed below:



  *   Record the Zoom meeting and post the recording as part of the official 
record
  *   Remove the Zoom portion and move to a pure IRC only meeting



There are advantages as disadvantages to both, so please reply with your 
comments.



Also, should this discussion be expanded to include the whole community to 
ensure we are meeting their requests for transparency?



Regards,

Mark Beierl
Telco Innovation Staff Solution Architect

mbei...@vmware.com

[VMware]


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Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

[Manuel Buil]

Hello,

If we move to IRC-only meetings we will not able able to present slides or 
share documents and talk about them, right?. Would there be a way to fill this 
gap?

If we post the recording, does that mean that there will not be any MoMs 
anymore (in written format)?

Regards,
Manuel

From: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org  on behalf of Mark 
Beierl via Lists.Opnfv.Org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 2:26 PM
To: opnfv-tech-discuss@lists.opnfv.org 
Cc: opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org 
Subject: Re: [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts


Expanding to include the broader community.



We are seeking feedback on what level of information capture the TSC should 
provide.  This has been a discussion that has been going on for a while now, so 
please give this your prompt attention.



Regards,

Mark



From:  on behalf of "Mark Beierl via 
Lists.Opnfv.Org" 
Reply-To: Mark Beierl 
Date: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 10:35
To: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org" 
Cc: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org" 
Subject: [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts



Hello, all.



There has been some discussion about improving the accuracy of how we capture 
discussions in the TSC meeting.  Right now the only official record is the IRC 
meetbot logs, which requires that there is a note taker who can effectively 
transcribe all that discussions from the audio portion of the Zoom bridge into 
IRC.  In addition to that, any presentations must also be posted via #link, and 
if they are not yet available, that information might be lost.



I think now is a time to open the discussion about how we as a community want 
to share the full content of our TSC meetings.  Some options are listed below:



  *   Record the Zoom meeting and post the recording as part of the official 
record
  *   Remove the Zoom portion and move to a pure IRC only meeting



There are advantages as disadvantages to both, so please reply with your 
comments.



Also, should this discussion be expanded to include the whole community to 
ensure we are meeting their requests for transparency?



Regards,

Mark Beierl
Telco Innovation Staff Solution Architect

mbei...@vmware.com

[VMware]


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Re: [opnfv-tech-discuss] [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

[Mark Beierl via Lists.Opnfv.Org]

Expanding to include the broader community.

We are seeking feedback on what level of information capture the TSC should 
provide.  This has been a discussion that has been going on for a while now, so 
please give this your prompt attention.

Regards,
Mark

From:  on behalf of "Mark Beierl via 
Lists.Opnfv.Org" 
Reply-To: Mark Beierl 
Date: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 10:35
To: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org" 
Cc: "opnfv-...@lists.opnfv.org" 
Subject: [opnfv-tsc] TSC Meeting Artifacts

Hello, all.

There has been some discussion about improving the accuracy of how we capture 
discussions in the TSC meeting.  Right now the only official record is the IRC 
meetbot logs, which requires that there is a note taker who can effectively 
transcribe all that discussions from the audio portion of the Zoom bridge into 
IRC.  In addition to that, any presentations must also be posted via #link, and 
if they are not yet available, that information might be lost.

I think now is a time to open the discussion about how we as a community want 
to share the full content of our TSC meetings.  Some options are listed below:


  *   Record the Zoom meeting and post the recording as part of the official 
record
  *   Remove the Zoom portion and move to a pure IRC only meeting

There are advantages as disadvantages to both, so please reply with your 
comments.

Also, should this discussion be expanded to include the whole community to 
ensure we are meeting their requests for transparency?

Regards,
Mark Beierl
Telco Innovation Staff Solution Architect
mbei...@vmware.com

[VMware]

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