Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
That is my opinion .. Jr. learns the methods. Mid. knows the methods and predicts the results of some. Sr. had used all of them and knows the results. Guru seems to know the database internal code. Bunyamin Karadeniz - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:50 PM The Jr knows the passwords and where to find the databases. (Data) The Mid knows the answers to the exam questions. (Information) The Sr knows how the systems integrate and where to find things out. (Knowledge) The Guru knows the engine internals but also knows to test for 'features'. (Wisdom) -Original Message- Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:11 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The jr thinks that she knows. The mid knows that she knows. The sr knows that she knows not. Awareness of ignorance is the mark of true knowledge. I like cake. jack silvey --- Fink, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree, the Jr. DBA must focus on learning. Mid DBA...is still learning. Many Mid still view tuning/troubleshooting as an art (with a little magic thrown in) Sr. DBA...is still learning. Realizes that database management is a science, requiring research, expirementation and a very healthy dose of skepticism. The best Sr. DBAs that I know are the first ones to say 'I don't know'. That is the only true path to learning. No one can know everything. Often times the Jr. DBA will be a great source of knowledge since they don't know what NOT to ask. Reaction to reading Books/Documentation Junior - I did not know that Mid - I know that Senior - Perhaps...let's prove it When a developer/user asks for a change to the database Junior - I'll look it up and change it Mid - I have a script to do that, I'll let you know when I am done Senior - Why are you needing this change? Did you realize that x will cause y? Let's figure out the best way to accomplish the result. When faced with an undocumented condition/unknown error Junior - Log a TAR, get frustrated with 'We need a trace file. We need more information. We have no clue...'. Calls more senior help. Mid - Remembers a passage in a book, tries out the command. Fixes the symptom. Senior - Knows that x can cause y, if z is present. Tracks condition from symptom through to actual problem. Attends sessions at IOUG Junior - Assumes that all speakers know exactly what they are talking about and all vendor tools work as advertised. Mid - Listens to and believes Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach Senior - Listens to, questions and tests (on non production systems) what Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach Knowledge level Junior - Has no clue what they know and don't know Mid - Knows what they know Senior - Knows what they don't know Every Senior DBA is a mix of Jr. and Mid. They may know a great deal about one subsystem of Oracle, but lack knowledge in another area. Daniel W. Fink Sr. Oracle DBA MICROMEDEX 303.486.6456 -Original Message- Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:43 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Junior DBA's job is a learning. Mid DBA's job is a science. Sr. DBA's job is the Art. Srs feel database, users, developers and everything else. They feel what, where, how, when and why should by done. Their intuition is of high degree. ... and everybody is sure - the Sr DBA knows everything. (so one of the priority of Sr DBA is to make this impression) -- Alexandre -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Alexandre Gorbatchev INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). i -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Fink, Dan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
The Jr knows the passwords and where to find the databases. (Data) The Mid knows the answers to the exam questions. (Information) The Sr knows how the systems integrate and where to find things out. (Knowledge) The Guru knows the engine internals but also knows to test for 'features'. (Wisdom) -Original Message- Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:11 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L The jr thinks that she knows. The mid knows that she knows. The sr knows that she knows not. Awareness of ignorance is the mark of true knowledge. I like cake. jack silvey --- Fink, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree, the Jr. DBA must focus on learning. Mid DBA...is still learning. Many Mid still view tuning/troubleshooting as an art (with a little magic thrown in) Sr. DBA...is still learning. Realizes that database management is a science, requiring research, expirementation and a very healthy dose of skepticism. The best Sr. DBAs that I know are the first ones to say 'I don't know'. That is the only true path to learning. No one can know everything. Often times the Jr. DBA will be a great source of knowledge since they don't know what NOT to ask. Reaction to reading Books/Documentation Junior - I did not know that Mid - I know that Senior - Perhaps...let's prove it When a developer/user asks for a change to the database Junior - I'll look it up and change it Mid - I have a script to do that, I'll let you know when I am done Senior - Why are you needing this change? Did you realize that x will cause y? Let's figure out the best way to accomplish the result. When faced with an undocumented condition/unknown error Junior - Log a TAR, get frustrated with 'We need a trace file. We need more information. We have no clue...'. Calls more senior help. Mid - Remembers a passage in a book, tries out the command. Fixes the symptom. Senior - Knows that x can cause y, if z is present. Tracks condition from symptom through to actual problem. Attends sessions at IOUG Junior - Assumes that all speakers know exactly what they are talking about and all vendor tools work as advertised. Mid - Listens to and believes Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach Senior - Listens to, questions and tests (on non production systems) what Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach Knowledge level Junior - Has no clue what they know and don't know Mid - Knows what they know Senior - Knows what they don't know Every Senior DBA is a mix of Jr. and Mid. They may know a great deal about one subsystem of Oracle, but lack knowledge in another area. Daniel W. Fink Sr. Oracle DBA MICROMEDEX 303.486.6456 -Original Message- Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:43 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Junior DBA's job is a learning. Mid DBA's job is a science. Sr. DBA's job is the Art. Srs feel database, users, developers and everything else. They feel what, where, how, when and why should by done. Their intuition is of high degree. ... and everybody is sure - the Sr DBA knows everything. (so one of the priority of Sr DBA is to make this impression) -- Alexandre -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Alexandre Gorbatchev INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). i -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Fink, Dan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jack Silvey INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California--
Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
Hello Itiu You wrote: Most people use it : We have a saying: zillions flies can not be wrong, eat shit. BTW - We use NT servers. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 2:43 AM What's wrong with M$FT. Most people use it : The majority cannot be wrong. What's wrong with you guys. If it works, then use it. If you can make it work, then use it. If you can pretend that it works, then use it too. ltiu On Saturday 01 June 2002 14:53, you wrote: I beg to differ. All Real DBA's should be platform independent. (and if that platform comes from M$FT, they should probably be undergoing intense therapy). -- James -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
...and what makes you think that we all don't? Do you know anything about how wine and beer are made? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 5:43 AM Hello Itiu You wrote: Most people use it : We have a saying: zillions flies can not be wrong, eat shit. BTW - We use NT servers. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 2:43 AM What's wrong with M$FT. Most people use it : The majority cannot be wrong. What's wrong with you guys. If it works, then use it. If you can make it work, then use it. If you can pretend that it works, then use it too. ltiu On Saturday 01 June 2002 14:53, you wrote: I beg to differ. All Real DBA's should be platform independent. (and if that platform comes from M$FT, they should probably be undergoing intense therapy). -- James -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tim Gorman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
but many (and especially older hands) Oracle DBAs consider M$ systems to be for wimps, just good for running Access and possibly SQL Server. Yea... and I'm sure that there are those older hands that would prefer the days of the card punching return :-)) Old habits and ways are hard to change. While I'm not a M$ fan. I'm thankful that I can run a copy of Oracle on it to develop and test with at home on my ownI might even run a production system on it... a very unimportant production system. Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP Oracle DBA Technical Lead CSX Midtier Database Administration Author: Oracle9i New Features Mastering Oracle8i -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Freeman, Robert INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re:RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
Ban M$, run Linux. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Freeman; Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 6/3/2002 12:08 PM but many (and especially older hands) Oracle DBAs consider M$ systems to be for wimps, just good for running Access and possibly SQL Server. Yea... and I'm sure that there are those older hands that would prefer the days of the card punching return :-)) Old habits and ways are hard to change. While I'm not a M$ fan. I'm thankful that I can run a copy of Oracle on it to develop and test with at home on my ownI might even run a production system on it... a very unimportant production system. Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP Oracle DBA Technical Lead CSX Midtier Database Administration Author: Oracle9i New Features Mastering Oracle8i -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Freeman, Robert INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
ltiu wrote: What's wrong with M$FT. Most people use it : The majority cannot be wrong. What's wrong with you guys. If it works, then use it. If you can make it work, then use it. If you can pretend that it works, then use it too. ltiu Hmmm, Oracle and Microsoft are not fully compatible. There is no love lost between Ellison and Gates. Historically, Oracle was a port to Digital (remember this brand?) machines of IBM specs, and started its conquest of the world from minicomputers; market forces being what they are, Oracle came to run on M$ systems, but many (and especially older hands) Oracle DBAs consider M$ systems to be for wimps, just good for running Access and possibly SQL Server. Whether it is founded or not is another matter. Concerning your assessment that the majority cannot be wrong, I admire your faith in democracy. -- Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole Software -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroult INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
What's wrong with M$, please, the ever crashing OS, need anything else be said? And Stephane hit it perfectly. As far as I remember(feel free to brutalize me if wrong), that M$, even back in the DOS days, was never a development platform for Oracle and I used V5 on 386 under DOS. Let the flames begin. Joe Stephane Faroult wrote: ltiu wrote: What's wrong with M$FT. Most people use it : The majority cannot be wrong. What's wrong with you guys. If it works, then use it. If you can make it work, then use it. If you can pretend that it works, then use it too. ltiu Hmmm, Oracle and Microsoft are not fully compatible. There is no love lost between Ellison and Gates. Historically, Oracle was a port to Digital (remember this brand?) machines of IBM specs, and started its conquest of the world from minicomputers; market forces being what they are, Oracle came to run on M$ systems, but many (and especially older hands) Oracle DBAs consider M$ systems to be for wimps, just good for running Access and possibly SQL Server. Whether it is founded or not is another matter. Concerning your assessment that the majority cannot be wrong, I admire your faith in democracy. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
Stephane Faroult wrote: ...Historically, Oracle was a port to Digital (remember this brand?) Interesting. I'm reading this list because of a recent project to retire the Digital-Alpha workstations. The main reason that these machines must be de-commissioned is because Oracle stopped supporting Tru64. (Although it needs to be done EVENTUALLY, since Alpha is basicly dead anyway.) The Alphas were bought to retire the VMS from 4-7 years ago! Talk about unfortunate planning! -- Aaron Birenboim | The top three attributes of a good programmer: Albuquerque, NM |Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris [EMAIL PROTECTED] | boim.com/~aaron | -- Randall Schwartz, author of perl references -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Aaron Birenboim INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
- Original Message - What's wrong with M$, please, the ever crashing OS, need anything else be said? That's fixed on NT3.1/NT4/W2K/XP. Promise. Cross-my-heart-hope-to-die. This time I mean it. For sure. Honest. yawn Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
Don't forget the Restart for Every Update Even if it is a security patch for IE. Best Regards, Ganesh R Tel : +971 (4) 397 3337 Ext 420 Fax : +971 (4) 397 6262 HP : +971 (50) 745 6019 Live to learn... forget... and learn again. -Original Message- Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 4:58 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L What's wrong with M$, please, the ever crashing OS, need anything else be said? And Stephane hit it perfectly. As far as I remember(feel free to brutalize me if wrong), that M$, even back in the DOS days, was never a development platform for Oracle and I used V5 on 386 under DOS. Let the flames begin. Joe Stephane Faroult wrote: ltiu wrote: What's wrong with M$FT. Most people use it : The majority cannot be wrong. What's wrong with you guys. If it works, then use it. If you can make it work, then use it. If you can pretend that it works, then use it too. ltiu Hmmm, Oracle and Microsoft are not fully compatible. There is no love lost between Ellison and Gates. Historically, Oracle was a port to Digital (remember this brand?) machines of IBM specs, and started its conquest of the world from minicomputers; market forces being what they are, Oracle came to run on M$ systems, but many (and especially older hands) Oracle DBAs consider M$ systems to be for wimps, just good for running Access and possibly SQL Server. Whether it is founded or not is another matter. Concerning your assessment that the majority cannot be wrong, I admire your faith in democracy. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ganesh Raja INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
On Saturday 01 June 2002 17:43, ltiu wrote: What's wrong with M$FT. Most people use it : The majority cannot be wrong. What's wrong with you guys. If it works, then use it. If you can The majority cannot be wrong? Since when? History offers many examples of the majority being wrong, on many different occasions. The majority use MicroSlop because it is either shoved down their throats, they are ignorant and don't know any better, or an application that is critical to them runs only on MS. Jared make it work, then use it. If you can pretend that it works, then use it too. ltiu On Saturday 01 June 2002 14:53, you wrote: I beg to differ. All Real DBA's should be platform independent. (and if that platform comes from M$FT, they should probably be undergoing intense therapy). -- James -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
I beg to differ. All Real DBA's should be platform independent. (and if that platform comes from M$FT, they should probably be undergoing intense therapy). -- James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Better run like WIND!! All Real DBA's use HP. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Rachel Carmichael [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 5/31/2002 11:01 AM AIX? Come on all really senior DBAs work on SUN (ducking and running broken field pattern :) ) --- Freeman, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few thoughts... SNIP Really Sr. DBA: Is busy installing the latest version of Oracle on AIX, and SNIP -- James J. Morrow E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Principal Consultant Tenure Systems, Inc. McKinney, TX, USA The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: James J. Morrow INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
What's wrong with M$FT. Most people use it : The majority cannot be wrong. What's wrong with you guys. If it works, then use it. If you can make it work, then use it. If you can pretend that it works, then use it too. ltiu On Saturday 01 June 2002 14:53, you wrote: I beg to differ. All Real DBA's should be platform independent. (and if that platform comes from M$FT, they should probably be undergoing intense therapy). -- James -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
Junior DBA's job is a learning. Mid DBA's job is a science. Sr. DBA's job is the Art. Srs feel database, users, developers and everything else. They feel what, where, how, when and why should by done. Their intuition is of high degree. ... and everybody is sure - the Sr DBA knows everything. (so one of the priority of Sr DBA is to make this impression) -- Alexandre -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Alexandre Gorbatchev INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
Title: RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA We Since I live in Israel I do not know the salaries ranges. Senior DBA lives in Spain Junior DAB lives in England Midlevel DAB lived 200 years ago in Europe. Yechiel AdarMehish - Original Message - From: Richard Huntley To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 10:07 PM Subject: RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA Yechiel...now I'm curious...where would you say (or anyone else reading this) salary ranges should fall for each (jr, mid-level and senior DBA's), other than senior DBA's maxing out at infinity? :) -Original Message- From: Yechiel Adar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA Salary ! Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM Hello: Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA, and a Sr. DBA? I know how our HR department makes the division but would be interested in knowing how other people might classify the differences. Regards, Jay _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Wade INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
I agree, the Jr. DBA must focus on learning. Mid DBA...is still learning. Many Mid still view tuning/troubleshooting as an art (with a little magic thrown in) Sr. DBA...is still learning. Realizes that database management is a science, requiring research, expirementation and a very healthy dose of skepticism. The best Sr. DBAs that I know are the first ones to say 'I don't know'. That is the only true path to learning. No one can know everything. Often times the Jr. DBA will be a great source of knowledge since they don't know what NOT to ask. Reaction to reading Books/Documentation Junior - I did not know that Mid - I know that Senior - Perhaps...let's prove it When a developer/user asks for a change to the database Junior - I'll look it up and change it Mid - I have a script to do that, I'll let you know when I am done Senior - Why are you needing this change? Did you realize that x will cause y? Let's figure out the best way to accomplish the result. When faced with an undocumented condition/unknown error Junior - Log a TAR, get frustrated with 'We need a trace file. We need more information. We have no clue...'. Calls more senior help. Mid - Remembers a passage in a book, tries out the command. Fixes the symptom. Senior - Knows that x can cause y, if z is present. Tracks condition from symptom through to actual problem. Attends sessions at IOUG Junior - Assumes that all speakers know exactly what they are talking about and all vendor tools work as advertised. Mid - Listens to and believes Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach Senior - Listens to, questions and tests (on non production systems) what Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach Knowledge level Junior - Has no clue what they know and don't know Mid - Knows what they know Senior - Knows what they don't know Every Senior DBA is a mix of Jr. and Mid. They may know a great deal about one subsystem of Oracle, but lack knowledge in another area. Daniel W. Fink Sr. Oracle DBA MICROMEDEX 303.486.6456 -Original Message- Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:43 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Junior DBA's job is a learning. Mid DBA's job is a science. Sr. DBA's job is the Art. Srs feel database, users, developers and everything else. They feel what, where, how, when and why should by done. Their intuition is of high degree. ... and everybody is sure - the Sr DBA knows everything. (so one of the priority of Sr DBA is to make this impression) -- Alexandre -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Alexandre Gorbatchev INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). i -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Fink, Dan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
Attends sessions at IOUG Junior - Assumes that all speakers know exactly what they are talking about and all vendor tools work as advertised. Mid - Listens to and believes Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach Senior - Listens to, questions and tests (on non production systems) what Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach I appreciate the compliment but I'm NOT in their league! I guess I'm Senior -- I know what I don't know! --- Fink, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree, the Jr. DBA must focus on learning. Mid DBA...is still learning. Many Mid still view tuning/troubleshooting as an art (with a little magic thrown in) Sr. DBA...is still learning. Realizes that database management is a science, requiring research, expirementation and a very healthy dose of skepticism. The best Sr. DBAs that I know are the first ones to say 'I don't know'. That is the only true path to learning. No one can know everything. Often times the Jr. DBA will be a great source of knowledge since they don't know what NOT to ask. Reaction to reading Books/Documentation Junior - I did not know that Mid - I know that Senior - Perhaps...let's prove it When a developer/user asks for a change to the database Junior - I'll look it up and change it Mid - I have a script to do that, I'll let you know when I am done Senior - Why are you needing this change? Did you realize that x will cause y? Let's figure out the best way to accomplish the result. When faced with an undocumented condition/unknown error Junior - Log a TAR, get frustrated with 'We need a trace file. We need more information. We have no clue...'. Calls more senior help. Mid - Remembers a passage in a book, tries out the command. Fixes the symptom. Senior - Knows that x can cause y, if z is present. Tracks condition from symptom through to actual problem. Attends sessions at IOUG Junior - Assumes that all speakers know exactly what they are talking about and all vendor tools work as advertised. Mid - Listens to and believes Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach Senior - Listens to, questions and tests (on non production systems) what Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach Knowledge level Junior - Has no clue what they know and don't know Mid - Knows what they know Senior - Knows what they don't know Every Senior DBA is a mix of Jr. and Mid. They may know a great deal about one subsystem of Oracle, but lack knowledge in another area. Daniel W. Fink Sr. Oracle DBA MICROMEDEX 303.486.6456 -Original Message- Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:43 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Junior DBA's job is a learning. Mid DBA's job is a science. Sr. DBA's job is the Art. Srs feel database, users, developers and everything else. They feel what, where, how, when and why should by done. Their intuition is of high degree. ... and everybody is sure - the Sr DBA knows everything. (so one of the priority of Sr DBA is to make this impression) -- Alexandre -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Alexandre Gorbatchev INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). i -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Fink, Dan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
The jr thinks that she knows. The mid knows that she knows. The sr knows that she knows not. Awareness of ignorance is the mark of true knowledge. I like cake. jack silvey --- Fink, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree, the Jr. DBA must focus on learning. Mid DBA...is still learning. Many Mid still view tuning/troubleshooting as an art (with a little magic thrown in) Sr. DBA...is still learning. Realizes that database management is a science, requiring research, expirementation and a very healthy dose of skepticism. The best Sr. DBAs that I know are the first ones to say 'I don't know'. That is the only true path to learning. No one can know everything. Often times the Jr. DBA will be a great source of knowledge since they don't know what NOT to ask. Reaction to reading Books/Documentation Junior - I did not know that Mid - I know that Senior - Perhaps...let's prove it When a developer/user asks for a change to the database Junior - I'll look it up and change it Mid - I have a script to do that, I'll let you know when I am done Senior - Why are you needing this change? Did you realize that x will cause y? Let's figure out the best way to accomplish the result. When faced with an undocumented condition/unknown error Junior - Log a TAR, get frustrated with 'We need a trace file. We need more information. We have no clue...'. Calls more senior help. Mid - Remembers a passage in a book, tries out the command. Fixes the symptom. Senior - Knows that x can cause y, if z is present. Tracks condition from symptom through to actual problem. Attends sessions at IOUG Junior - Assumes that all speakers know exactly what they are talking about and all vendor tools work as advertised. Mid - Listens to and believes Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach Senior - Listens to, questions and tests (on non production systems) what Tim, Cary, Craig, Rich, Rachel, Gaja and all other High Holy Oracle Gurus preach Knowledge level Junior - Has no clue what they know and don't know Mid - Knows what they know Senior - Knows what they don't know Every Senior DBA is a mix of Jr. and Mid. They may know a great deal about one subsystem of Oracle, but lack knowledge in another area. Daniel W. Fink Sr. Oracle DBA MICROMEDEX 303.486.6456 -Original Message- Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:43 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Junior DBA's job is a learning. Mid DBA's job is a science. Sr. DBA's job is the Art. Srs feel database, users, developers and everything else. They feel what, where, how, when and why should by done. Their intuition is of high degree. ... and everybody is sure - the Sr DBA knows everything. (so one of the priority of Sr DBA is to make this impression) -- Alexandre -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Alexandre Gorbatchev INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). i -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Fink, Dan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jack Silvey INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
A few thoughts... Jr. DBA: Asks the Mid or Sr. DBA where to look. Mid DBA: Kind of knows where the answer is, but takes a bit to find it. Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in one or more of his office full of books. Really Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in his own book or paper. Jr. DBA: Feels a lot of fear with every change of the database he has to make. Mid DBA: Looks forward to the experience of making the changes. Sr. DBA: Suggests improvements when reviewing changes, helps implement those improvements and then monitors the Mid. DBA as he/she makes the change. Really Sr. DBA: Is busy installing the latest version of Oracle on AIX, and updating the current Oracle standards manual for the department, when the change is requested. Opens another window, quickly realizes that the change will end up causing all sorts of data inconsistencies, redesigns the entire change while at the same time flipping out CD 3 of 5 of Oracle9iR2 for AIX, Implements the redesigned change after the developer reviews and approves. Then flips in CD 4 of 5. Jr. DBA: Checks with the Mid-tier DBA before making a change to make sure it's ok. Mid DBA: Checks with the Sr. DBA before making a change to make sure it's ok. Sr. DBA: Comfortable with making the change in his own right, but for more complicated changes or new architectural implementations, checks with the Sr. DBA to make sure it is ok. Really Sr. DBA: Talks with anyone who will listen and wonders why he is considered the grand-pobah DBA because he really doesn't feel like one. Jr. DBA: 3 Books on his desk. Mid DBA: 7 Books on his desk. Sr. DBA: 10-20 books on his desk. Really Sr. DBA: You can't find because he is buried under the books on his desk OR he is writing his latest book. Jr. DBA: 2 weeks vacation, all taken. Mid DBA: 3 weeks vacation, 1 week taken and occasional Fridays. All made up by long weekend and holiday changes. Sr. DBA: 4 Weeks vacation, 1 week taken with pager going off three times, occasional Friday off too. All made up for by long weekend and holiday changes. Really Sr. DBA: 6 weeks vacation, none taken in 6 years (and of course the company doesn't accrue vacation time) and all those long weekend and holiday changes. Pager of cell phone always going off. Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP Oracle DBA Technical Lead CSX Midtier Database Administration Author: Oracle9i New Features Mastering Oracle8i Clark Griswold http://us.imdb.com/Name?Chase,+Chevy : Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? Cousin Eddie http://us.imdb.com/Name?Quaid,+Randy : Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' crazy. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Freeman, Robert INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
AIX? Come on all really senior DBAs work on SUN (ducking and running broken field pattern :) ) --- Freeman, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few thoughts... Jr. DBA: Asks the Mid or Sr. DBA where to look. Mid DBA: Kind of knows where the answer is, but takes a bit to find it. Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in one or more of his office full of books. Really Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in his own book or paper. Jr. DBA: Feels a lot of fear with every change of the database he has to make. Mid DBA: Looks forward to the experience of making the changes. Sr. DBA: Suggests improvements when reviewing changes, helps implement those improvements and then monitors the Mid. DBA as he/she makes the change. Really Sr. DBA: Is busy installing the latest version of Oracle on AIX, and updating the current Oracle standards manual for the department, when the change is requested. Opens another window, quickly realizes that the change will end up causing all sorts of data inconsistencies, redesigns the entire change while at the same time flipping out CD 3 of 5 of Oracle9iR2 for AIX, Implements the redesigned change after the developer reviews and approves. Then flips in CD 4 of 5. Jr. DBA: Checks with the Mid-tier DBA before making a change to make sure it's ok. Mid DBA: Checks with the Sr. DBA before making a change to make sure it's ok. Sr. DBA: Comfortable with making the change in his own right, but for more complicated changes or new architectural implementations, checks with the Sr. DBA to make sure it is ok. Really Sr. DBA: Talks with anyone who will listen and wonders why he is considered the grand-pobah DBA because he really doesn't feel like one. Jr. DBA: 3 Books on his desk. Mid DBA: 7 Books on his desk. Sr. DBA: 10-20 books on his desk. Really Sr. DBA: You can't find because he is buried under the books on his desk OR he is writing his latest book. Jr. DBA: 2 weeks vacation, all taken. Mid DBA: 3 weeks vacation, 1 week taken and occasional Fridays. All made up by long weekend and holiday changes. Sr. DBA: 4 Weeks vacation, 1 week taken with pager going off three times, occasional Friday off too. All made up for by long weekend and holiday changes. Really Sr. DBA: 6 weeks vacation, none taken in 6 years (and of course the company doesn't accrue vacation time) and all those long weekend and holiday changes. Pager of cell phone always going off. Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP Oracle DBA Technical Lead CSX Midtier Database Administration Author: Oracle9i New Features Mastering Oracle8i Clark Griswold http://us.imdb.com/Name?Chase,+Chevy : Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? Cousin Eddie http://us.imdb.com/Name?Quaid,+Randy : Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' crazy. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Freeman, Robert INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re:RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
Better run like WIND!! All Real DBA's use HP. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Rachel Carmichael [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 5/31/2002 11:01 AM AIX? Come on all really senior DBAs work on SUN (ducking and running broken field pattern :) ) --- Freeman, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few thoughts... Jr. DBA: Asks the Mid or Sr. DBA where to look. Mid DBA: Kind of knows where the answer is, but takes a bit to find it. Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in one or more of his office full of books. Really Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in his own book or paper. Jr. DBA: Feels a lot of fear with every change of the database he has to make. Mid DBA: Looks forward to the experience of making the changes. Sr. DBA: Suggests improvements when reviewing changes, helps implement those improvements and then monitors the Mid. DBA as he/she makes the change. Really Sr. DBA: Is busy installing the latest version of Oracle on AIX, and updating the current Oracle standards manual for the department, when the change is requested. Opens another window, quickly realizes that the change will end up causing all sorts of data inconsistencies, redesigns the entire change while at the same time flipping out CD 3 of 5 of Oracle9iR2 for AIX, Implements the redesigned change after the developer reviews and approves. Then flips in CD 4 of 5. Jr. DBA: Checks with the Mid-tier DBA before making a change to make sure it's ok. Mid DBA: Checks with the Sr. DBA before making a change to make sure it's ok. Sr. DBA: Comfortable with making the change in his own right, but for more complicated changes or new architectural implementations, checks with the Sr. DBA to make sure it is ok. Really Sr. DBA: Talks with anyone who will listen and wonders why he is considered the grand-pobah DBA because he really doesn't feel like one. Jr. DBA: 3 Books on his desk. Mid DBA: 7 Books on his desk. Sr. DBA: 10-20 books on his desk. Really Sr. DBA: You can't find because he is buried under the books on his desk OR he is writing his latest book. Jr. DBA: 2 weeks vacation, all taken. Mid DBA: 3 weeks vacation, 1 week taken and occasional Fridays. All made up by long weekend and holiday changes. Sr. DBA: 4 Weeks vacation, 1 week taken with pager going off three times, occasional Friday off too. All made up for by long weekend and holiday changes. Really Sr. DBA: 6 weeks vacation, none taken in 6 years (and of course the company doesn't accrue vacation time) and all those long weekend and holiday changes. Pager of cell phone always going off. Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP Oracle DBA Technical Lead CSX Midtier Database Administration Author: Oracle9i New Features Mastering Oracle8i Clark Griswold http://us.imdb.com/Name?Chase,+Chevy : Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? Cousin Eddie http://us.imdb.com/Name?Quaid,+Randy : Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' crazy. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Freeman, Robert INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
(ducking and running broken field pattern :) ) Opens black looking suitcase with secret Nuclear launch codes, chanting the mantra, there is always a solution. Enjoying that new job? RF Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP Oracle DBA Technical Lead CSX Midtier Database Administration Author: Oracle9i New Features Mastering Oracle8i Clark Griswold: Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? Cousin Eddie: Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' crazy. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Freeman, Robert INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
it's fun so far. and one of these days I'll get to do DBA work too.. right now I'm trying to Teach yourself Data warehousing in 2 weeks --- Freeman, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (ducking and running broken field pattern :) ) Opens black looking suitcase with secret Nuclear launch codes, chanting the mantra, there is always a solution. Enjoying that new job? RF Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP Oracle DBA Technical Lead CSX Midtier Database Administration Author: Oracle9i New Features Mastering Oracle8i Clark Griswold: Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? Cousin Eddie: Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' crazy. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Freeman, Robert INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
REAL DBAs have 28 Etch-A-Sketches configured as RAC with Big Chief Tablets as their hot standby Daniel W. Fink Sr. Oracle DBA MICROMEDEX 303.486.6456 -Original Message- Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L AIX? Come on all really senior DBAs work on SUN (ducking and running broken field pattern :) ) --- Freeman, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few thoughts... Jr. DBA: Asks the Mid or Sr. DBA where to look. Mid DBA: Kind of knows where the answer is, but takes a bit to find it. Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in one or more of his office full of books. Really Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in his own book or paper. Jr. DBA: Feels a lot of fear with every change of the database he has to make. Mid DBA: Looks forward to the experience of making the changes. Sr. DBA: Suggests improvements when reviewing changes, helps implement those improvements and then monitors the Mid. DBA as he/she makes the change. Really Sr. DBA: Is busy installing the latest version of Oracle on AIX, and updating the current Oracle standards manual for the department, when the change is requested. Opens another window, quickly realizes that the change will end up causing all sorts of data inconsistencies, redesigns the entire change while at the same time flipping out CD 3 of 5 of Oracle9iR2 for AIX, Implements the redesigned change after the developer reviews and approves. Then flips in CD 4 of 5. Jr. DBA: Checks with the Mid-tier DBA before making a change to make sure it's ok. Mid DBA: Checks with the Sr. DBA before making a change to make sure it's ok. Sr. DBA: Comfortable with making the change in his own right, but for more complicated changes or new architectural implementations, checks with the Sr. DBA to make sure it is ok. Really Sr. DBA: Talks with anyone who will listen and wonders why he is considered the grand-pobah DBA because he really doesn't feel like one. Jr. DBA: 3 Books on his desk. Mid DBA: 7 Books on his desk. Sr. DBA: 10-20 books on his desk. Really Sr. DBA: You can't find because he is buried under the books on his desk OR he is writing his latest book. Jr. DBA: 2 weeks vacation, all taken. Mid DBA: 3 weeks vacation, 1 week taken and occasional Fridays. All made up by long weekend and holiday changes. Sr. DBA: 4 Weeks vacation, 1 week taken with pager going off three times, occasional Friday off too. All made up for by long weekend and holiday changes. Really Sr. DBA: 6 weeks vacation, none taken in 6 years (and of course the company doesn't accrue vacation time) and all those long weekend and holiday changes. Pager of cell phone always going off. Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP Oracle DBA Technical Lead CSX Midtier Database Administration Author: Oracle9i New Features Mastering Oracle8i Clark Griswold http://us.imdb.com/Name?Chase,+Chevy : Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? Cousin Eddie http://us.imdb.com/Name?Quaid,+Randy : Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' crazy. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Freeman, Robert INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Fink, Dan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
RE: RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
You guys are rookies. The Gods all use Linux. --Walt -Original Message- Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:17 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Better run like WIND!! All Real DBA's use HP. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Rachel Carmichael [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 5/31/2002 11:01 AM AIX? Come on all really senior DBAs work on SUN (ducking and running broken field pattern :) ) --- Freeman, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few thoughts... Jr. DBA: Asks the Mid or Sr. DBA where to look. Mid DBA: Kind of knows where the answer is, but takes a bit to find it. Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in one or more of his office full of books. Really Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in his own book or paper. Jr. DBA: Feels a lot of fear with every change of the database he has to make. Mid DBA: Looks forward to the experience of making the changes. Sr. DBA: Suggests improvements when reviewing changes, helps implement those improvements and then monitors the Mid. DBA as he/she makes the change. Really Sr. DBA: Is busy installing the latest version of Oracle on AIX, and updating the current Oracle standards manual for the department, when the change is requested. Opens another window, quickly realizes that the change will end up causing all sorts of data inconsistencies, redesigns the entire change while at the same time flipping out CD 3 of 5 of Oracle9iR2 for AIX, Implements the redesigned change after the developer reviews and approves. Then flips in CD 4 of 5. Jr. DBA: Checks with the Mid-tier DBA before making a change to make sure it's ok. Mid DBA: Checks with the Sr. DBA before making a change to make sure it's ok. Sr. DBA: Comfortable with making the change in his own right, but for more complicated changes or new architectural implementations, checks with the Sr. DBA to make sure it is ok. Really Sr. DBA: Talks with anyone who will listen and wonders why he is considered the grand-pobah DBA because he really doesn't feel like one. Jr. DBA: 3 Books on his desk. Mid DBA: 7 Books on his desk. Sr. DBA: 10-20 books on his desk. Really Sr. DBA: You can't find because he is buried under the books on his desk OR he is writing his latest book. Jr. DBA: 2 weeks vacation, all taken. Mid DBA: 3 weeks vacation, 1 week taken and occasional Fridays. All made up by long weekend and holiday changes. Sr. DBA: 4 Weeks vacation, 1 week taken with pager going off three times, occasional Friday off too. All made up for by long weekend and holiday changes. Really Sr. DBA: 6 weeks vacation, none taken in 6 years (and of course the company doesn't accrue vacation time) and all those long weekend and holiday changes. Pager of cell phone always going off. Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP Oracle DBA Technical Lead CSX Midtier Database Administration Author: Oracle9i New Features Mastering Oracle8i Clark Griswold http://us.imdb.com/Name?Chase,+Chevy : Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? Cousin Eddie http://us.imdb.com/Name?Quaid,+Randy : Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' crazy. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Freeman, Robert INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
you win :) --- Fink, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: REAL DBAs have 28 Etch-A-Sketches configured as RAC with Big Chief Tablets as their hot standby Daniel W. Fink Sr. Oracle DBA MICROMEDEX 303.486.6456 -Original Message- Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L AIX? Come on all really senior DBAs work on SUN (ducking and running broken field pattern :) ) --- Freeman, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few thoughts... Jr. DBA: Asks the Mid or Sr. DBA where to look. Mid DBA: Kind of knows where the answer is, but takes a bit to find it. Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in one or more of his office full of books. Really Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in his own book or paper. Jr. DBA: Feels a lot of fear with every change of the database he has to make. Mid DBA: Looks forward to the experience of making the changes. Sr. DBA: Suggests improvements when reviewing changes, helps implement those improvements and then monitors the Mid. DBA as he/she makes the change. Really Sr. DBA: Is busy installing the latest version of Oracle on AIX, and updating the current Oracle standards manual for the department, when the change is requested. Opens another window, quickly realizes that the change will end up causing all sorts of data inconsistencies, redesigns the entire change while at the same time flipping out CD 3 of 5 of Oracle9iR2 for AIX, Implements the redesigned change after the developer reviews and approves. Then flips in CD 4 of 5. Jr. DBA: Checks with the Mid-tier DBA before making a change to make sure it's ok. Mid DBA: Checks with the Sr. DBA before making a change to make sure it's ok. Sr. DBA: Comfortable with making the change in his own right, but for more complicated changes or new architectural implementations, checks with the Sr. DBA to make sure it is ok. Really Sr. DBA: Talks with anyone who will listen and wonders why he is considered the grand-pobah DBA because he really doesn't feel like one. Jr. DBA: 3 Books on his desk. Mid DBA: 7 Books on his desk. Sr. DBA: 10-20 books on his desk. Really Sr. DBA: You can't find because he is buried under the books on his desk OR he is writing his latest book. Jr. DBA: 2 weeks vacation, all taken. Mid DBA: 3 weeks vacation, 1 week taken and occasional Fridays. All made up by long weekend and holiday changes. Sr. DBA: 4 Weeks vacation, 1 week taken with pager going off three times, occasional Friday off too. All made up for by long weekend and holiday changes. Really Sr. DBA: 6 weeks vacation, none taken in 6 years (and of course the company doesn't accrue vacation time) and all those long weekend and holiday changes. Pager of cell phone always going off. Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP Oracle DBA Technical Lead CSX Midtier Database Administration Author: Oracle9i New Features Mastering Oracle8i Clark Griswold http://us.imdb.com/Name?Chase,+Chevy : Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? Cousin Eddie http://us.imdb.com/Name?Quaid,+Randy : Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' crazy. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Freeman, Robert INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
RE: RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
So that's why the Gods died out... Hehehe... Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX 210-581-6217 -Original Message- From: Weaver, Walt [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA You guys are rookies. The Gods all use Linux. --Walt -Original Message- Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:17 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Better run like WIND!! All Real DBA's use HP. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Rachel Carmichael [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 5/31/2002 11:01 AM AIX? Come on all really senior DBAs work on SUN (ducking and running broken field pattern :) ) --- Freeman, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few thoughts... Jr. DBA: Asks the Mid or Sr. DBA where to look. Mid DBA: Kind of knows where the answer is, but takes a bit to find it. Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in one or more of his office full of books. Really Sr. DBA: Answer is dog eared in his own book or paper. Jr. DBA: Feels a lot of fear with every change of the database he has to make. Mid DBA: Looks forward to the experience of making the changes. Sr. DBA: Suggests improvements when reviewing changes, helps implement those improvements and then monitors the Mid. DBA as he/she makes the change. Really Sr. DBA: Is busy installing the latest version of Oracle on AIX, and updating the current Oracle standards manual for the department, when the change is requested. Opens another window, quickly realizes that the change will end up causing all sorts of data inconsistencies, redesigns the entire change while at the same time flipping out CD 3 of 5 of Oracle9iR2 for AIX, Implements the redesigned change after the developer reviews and approves. Then flips in CD 4 of 5. Jr. DBA: Checks with the Mid-tier DBA before making a change to make sure it's ok. Mid DBA: Checks with the Sr. DBA before making a change to make sure it's ok. Sr. DBA: Comfortable with making the change in his own right, but for more complicated changes or new architectural implementations, checks with the Sr. DBA to make sure it is ok. Really Sr. DBA: Talks with anyone who will listen and wonders why he is considered the grand-pobah DBA because he really doesn't feel like one. Jr. DBA: 3 Books on his desk. Mid DBA: 7 Books on his desk. Sr. DBA: 10-20 books on his desk. Really Sr. DBA: You can't find because he is buried under the books on his desk OR he is writing his latest book. Jr. DBA: 2 weeks vacation, all taken. Mid DBA: 3 weeks vacation, 1 week taken and occasional Fridays. All made up by long weekend and holiday changes. Sr. DBA: 4 Weeks vacation, 1 week taken with pager going off three times, occasional Friday off too. All made up for by long weekend and holiday changes. Really Sr. DBA: 6 weeks vacation, none taken in 6 years (and of course the company doesn't accrue vacation time) and all those long weekend and holiday changes. Pager of cell phone always going off. Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP Oracle DBA Technical Lead CSX Midtier Database Administration Author: Oracle9i New Features Mastering Oracle8i Clark Griswold http://us.imdb.com/Name?Chase,+Chevy : Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? Cousin Eddie http://us.imdb.com/Name?Quaid,+Randy : Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' crazy. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Freeman, Robert INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E
Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
Hello: Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA, and a Sr. DBA? I know how our HR department makes the division but would be interested in knowing how other people might classify the differences. Regards, Jay _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Wade INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
Salary ! Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM Hello: Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA, and a Sr. DBA? I know how our HR department makes the division but would be interested in knowing how other people might classify the differences. Regards, Jay _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Wade INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
I would rather make the definition be about Experience and abilities other than Salary (Although Management does not exactly understand that ) . Look at it this way Just because someone is getting paid the most, does not mean they know the most. Also, just because someone has been around the most, does not mean the know the most. I would not expect a Jr. DBA to work on their own. They need to be guided in the right way to do things. After the Jr. progresses to the point where they can work on their own but still need the help of someone else in learning new items I would call them a Mid Level. To me , a Sr. DBA is one how needs no guidance .. knows where to find all the information themselves, is self-sufficient in their work. If you look at this definition , there are not that many Srs. about. Many of the folks who are designated Sr., are more like high mid Levels. As always ... just my opinion. Kevin -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Salary ! Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM Hello: Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA, and a Sr. DBA? I know how our HR department makes the division but would be interested in knowing how other people might classify the differences. Regards, Jay _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Wade INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Lange INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
Title: RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA Yechiel...now I'm curious...where would you say (or anyone else reading this) salary ranges should fall for each (jr, mid-level and senior DBA's), other than senior DBA's maxing out at infinity? :) -Original Message- From: Yechiel Adar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA Salary ! Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM Hello: Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA, and a Sr. DBA? I know how our HR department makes the division but would be interested in knowing how other people might classify the differences. Regards, Jay _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Wade INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba... there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't senior. I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion. One doesn't wipe out the other Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it. Rachel --- Kevin Lange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would rather make the definition be about Experience and abilities other than Salary (Although Management does not exactly understand that ) . Look at it this way Just because someone is getting paid the most, does not mean they know the most. Also, just because someone has been around the most, does not mean the know the most. I would not expect a Jr. DBA to work on their own. They need to be guided in the right way to do things. After the Jr. progresses to the point where they can work on their own but still need the help of someone else in learning new items I would call them a Mid Level. To me , a Sr. DBA is one how needs no guidance .. knows where to find all the information themselves, is self-sufficient in their work. If you look at this definition , there are not that many Srs. about. Many of the folks who are designated Sr., are more like high mid Levels. As always ... just my opinion. Kevin -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Salary ! Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM Hello: Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA, and a Sr. DBA? I know how our HR department makes the division but would be interested in knowing how other people might classify the differences. Regards, Jay _ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Wade INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Lange INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
And one more thing . . Knowing when you need help, and then go looking for it. Lets face it, we are not inside of Oracle Development. The products are changing all the time, and we need to change our knowledge-base to keep up with it. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 4:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba... there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't senior. I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion. One doesn't wipe out the other Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it. Rachel --- Kevin Lange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would rather make the definition be about Experience and abilities other than Salary (Although Management does not exactly understand that ) . Look at it this way Just because someone is getting paid the most, does not mean they know the most. Also, just because someone has been around the most, does not mean the know the most. I would not expect a Jr. DBA to work on their own. They need to be guided in the right way to do things. After the Jr. progresses to the point where they can work on their own but still need the help of someone else in learning new items I would call them a Mid Level. To me , a Sr. DBA is one how needs no guidance .. knows where to find all the information themselves, is self-sufficient in their work. If you look at this definition , there are not that many Srs. about. Many of the folks who are designated Sr., are more like high mid Levels. As always ... just my opinion. Kevin -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Salary ! Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM Hello: Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA, and a Sr. DBA? I know how our HR department makes the division but would be interested in knowing how other people might classify the differences. Regards, Jay _ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Wade INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Lange INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
Speedy Gonzalez accent Senior DBA... isn't that someone from Spain? /Speedy Gonzalez accent -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba... there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't senior. I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion. One doesn't wipe out the other Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it. Rachel -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
Yea I know ... Thats why I mentioned both Experience and Abilities. I would not say your list of names given were Sr. SIMPLY because they have been in the buisness forever. But, based on the fact that they have UNDENIABLE ABILITIES on this subject ... more abilities than most ... they would definitely be Sr. I guess the point I was trying to make is that it takes a lot of different pieces to make a Sr. More than just a simple Salary level like most employers I know look at. I have been with a company that , one day, you are a Jr. DBA.The next day after your raise, Abracadabra, You are a Sr. DBA. THATS NOT RIGHT. The Sr. should come with TIME, EFFORT and ABILITY. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba... there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't senior. I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion. One doesn't wipe out the other Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it. Rachel --- Kevin Lange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would rather make the definition be about Experience and abilities other than Salary (Although Management does not exactly understand that ) . Look at it this way Just because someone is getting paid the most, does not mean they know the most. Also, just because someone has been around the most, does not mean the know the most. I would not expect a Jr. DBA to work on their own. They need to be guided in the right way to do things. After the Jr. progresses to the point where they can work on their own but still need the help of someone else in learning new items I would call them a Mid Level. To me , a Sr. DBA is one how needs no guidance .. knows where to find all the information themselves, is self-sufficient in their work. If you look at this definition , there are not that many Srs. about. Many of the folks who are designated Sr., are more like high mid Levels. As always ... just my opinion. Kevin -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Salary ! Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM Hello: Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA, and a Sr. DBA? I know how our HR department makes the division but would be interested in knowing how other people might classify the differences. Regards, Jay _ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Wade INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Lange INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
okay, the definitive answer, from the soon to be released Oracle9i DBA 101, Theriault, Carmichael and Viscusi: This bit of humor was circulating around electronic mail a while ago. We don't know who wrote it, but it's a fun twist on an old joke: CIOs leap tall buildings in a single bound Are faster than a speeding bullet (rats, missed him again) Are more powerful than a locomotive Talk to God Sr. Managers leap short buildings with a running start Are faster than a BB gun Are more powerful than a streetcar Ask God questions Midlevel DBAs can clear a single-story house most of the time Can outrun the arrows that users shoot at them, with a head start Get run over by bicycles Beg God not to notice them Junior DBAs trip over the stoop Wonder why there are holes in their body Say ?Look at the choo-choo? Make God mad by asking, ?What happens if I turn off the server?? Senior DBAs run through buildings Eat the bullets Throw the locomotive at the users Are Oracle Gods (or Goddesses)! --- Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speedy Gonzalez accent Senior DBA... isn't that someone from Spain? /Speedy Gonzalez accent -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba... there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't senior. I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion. One doesn't wipe out the other Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it. Rachel -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
100% agreed with the goddess No one claim that he knows everything about Oracle specially with so much functionality is being introduced in different version of Oracle databases and Oracle Financials Application...Working with Oracle Products since 1988 , I am still learning everyday new things from this fantastic list of all DBA gurus regardless we treat ourselves as Senior DBA or otherwise. The fact is, learning is a continous process Regards Rafiq Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:07:45 -0800 by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba... there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't senior. I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion. One doesn't wipe out the other Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it. Rachel --- Kevin Lange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would rather make the definition be about Experience and abilities other than Salary (Although Management does not exactly understand that ) . Look at it this way Just because someone is getting paid the most, does not mean they know the most. Also, just because someone has been around the most, does not mean the know the most. I would not expect a Jr. DBA to work on their own. They need to be guided in the right way to do things. After the Jr. progresses to the point where they can work on their own but still need the help of someone else in learning new items I would call them a Mid Level. To me , a Sr. DBA is one how needs no guidance .. knows where to find all the information themselves, is self-sufficient in their work. If you look at this definition , there are not that many Srs. about. Many of the folks who are designated Sr., are more like high mid Levels. As always ... just my opinion. Kevin -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Salary ! Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM Hello: Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA, and a Sr. DBA? I know how our HR department makes the division but would be interested in knowing how other people might classify the differences. Regards, Jay _ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Wade INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Lange INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
You need to add one more line... Senior DBAs run through buildings Eat the bullets Throw the locomotive at the users Are Oracle Gods (or Goddesses)! ... and know they are not Larry Ellison. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High okay, the definitive answer, from the soon to be released Oracle9i DBA 101, Theriault, Carmichael and Viscusi: This bit of humor was circulating around electronic mail a while ago. We don't know who wrote it, but it's a fun twist on an old joke: CIOs leap tall buildings in a single bound Are faster than a speeding bullet (rats, missed him again) Are more powerful than a locomotive Talk to God Sr. Managers leap short buildings with a running start Are faster than a BB gun Are more powerful than a streetcar Ask God questions Midlevel DBAs can clear a single-story house most of the time Can outrun the arrows that users shoot at them, with a head start Get run over by bicycles Beg God not to notice them Junior DBAs trip over the stoop Wonder why there are holes in their body Say ?Look at the choo-choo? Make God mad by asking, ?What happens if I turn off the server?? Senior DBAs run through buildings Eat the bullets Throw the locomotive at the users Are Oracle Gods (or Goddesses)! --- Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speedy Gonzalez accent Senior DBA... isn't that someone from Spain? /Speedy Gonzalez accent -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba... there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't senior. I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion. One doesn't wipe out the other Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it. Rachel -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
As I get older, I find that forgetting is an even more continuous process RF Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP Oracle DBA Technical Lead CSX Midtier Database Administration Author: Oracle9i New Features Mastering Oracle8i Clark Griswold http://us.imdb.com/Name?Chase,+Chevy : Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? Cousin Eddie http://us.imdb.com/Name?Quaid,+Randy : Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' crazy. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 5:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 100% agreed with the goddess No one claim that he knows everything about Oracle specially with so much functionality is being introduced in different version of Oracle databases and Oracle Financials Application...Working with Oracle Products since 1988 , I am still learning everyday new things from this fantastic list of all DBA gurus regardless we treat ourselves as Senior DBA or otherwise. The fact is, learning is a continous process Regards Rafiq Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:07:45 -0800 by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba... there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't senior. I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion. One doesn't wipe out the other Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it. Rachel --- Kevin Lange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would rather make the definition be about Experience and abilities other than Salary (Although Management does not exactly understand that ) . Look at it this way Just because someone is getting paid the most, does not mean they know the most. Also, just because someone has been around the most, does not mean the know the most. I would not expect a Jr. DBA to work on their own. They need to be guided in the right way to do things. After the Jr. progresses to the point where they can work on their own but still need the help of someone else in learning new items I would call them a Mid Level. To me , a Sr. DBA is one how needs no guidance .. knows where to find all the information themselves, is self-sufficient in their work. If you look at this definition , there are not that many Srs. about. Many of the folks who are designated Sr., are more like high mid Levels. As always ... just my opinion. Kevin -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Salary ! Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM Hello: Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA, and a Sr. DBA? I know how our HR department makes the division but would be interested in knowing how other people might classify the differences. Regards, Jay _ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Wade INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the
Re:RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
Until you die or stop learning. Their synonyms for each other. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Mohammad Rafiq [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 5/30/2002 1:23 PM 100% agreed with the goddess No one claim that he knows everything about Oracle specially with so much functionality is being introduced in different version of Oracle databases and Oracle Financials Application...Working with Oracle Products since 1988 , I am still learning everyday new things from this fantastic list of all DBA gurus regardless we treat ourselves as Senior DBA or otherwise. The fact is, learning is a continous process Regards Rafiq Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:07:45 -0800 by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba... there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't senior. I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion. One doesn't wipe out the other Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it. Rachel --- Kevin Lange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would rather make the definition be about Experience and abilities other than Salary (Although Management does not exactly understand that ) . Look at it this way Just because someone is getting paid the most, does not mean they know the most. Also, just because someone has been around the most, does not mean the know the most. I would not expect a Jr. DBA to work on their own. They need to be guided in the right way to do things. After the Jr. progresses to the point where they can work on their own but still need the help of someone else in learning new items I would call them a Mid Level. To me , a Sr. DBA is one how needs no guidance .. knows where to find all the information themselves, is self-sufficient in their work. If you look at this definition , there are not that many Srs. about. Many of the folks who are designated Sr., are more like high mid Levels. As always ... just my opinion. Kevin -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Salary ! Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM Hello: Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA, and a Sr. DBA? I know how our HR department makes the division but would be interested in knowing how other people might classify the differences. Regards, Jay _ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Wade INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Lange INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
RF, You are still very young(if I am not wrong around 42) and should not be worried about that... Regards Rafiq Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 13:55:02 -0800 As I get older, I find that forgetting is an even more continuous process RF Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP Oracle DBA Technical Lead CSX Midtier Database Administration Author: Oracle9i New Features Mastering Oracle8i Clark Griswold http://us.imdb.com/Name?Chase,+Chevy : Eddie, has anyone ever told you that you're bad luck? Cousin Eddie http://us.imdb.com/Name?Quaid,+Randy : Those were my mother's dying words. But I guess if your body's covered in third degree burns, and your foot's caught in a bear trap, you tend to start talkin' crazy. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 5:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 100% agreed with the goddess No one claim that he knows everything about Oracle specially with so much functionality is being introduced in different version of Oracle databases and Oracle Financials Application...Working with Oracle Products since 1988 , I am still learning everyday new things from this fantastic list of all DBA gurus regardless we treat ourselves as Senior DBA or otherwise. The fact is, learning is a continous process Regards Rafiq Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:07:45 -0800 by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba... there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't senior. I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion. One doesn't wipe out the other Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it. Rachel --- Kevin Lange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would rather make the definition be about Experience and abilities other than Salary (Although Management does not exactly understand that ) . Look at it this way Just because someone is getting paid the most, does not mean they know the most. Also, just because someone has been around the most, does not mean the know the most. I would not expect a Jr. DBA to work on their own. They need to be guided in the right way to do things. After the Jr. progresses to the point where they can work on their own but still need the help of someone else in learning new items I would call them a Mid Level. To me , a Sr. DBA is one how needs no guidance .. knows where to find all the information themselves, is self-sufficient in their work. If you look at this definition , there are not that many Srs. about. Many of the folks who are designated Sr., are more like high mid Levels. As always ... just my opinion. Kevin -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Salary ! Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:08 PM Hello: Out of curiosity how would you classify a Jr. DBA, a Mid Level DBA, and a Sr. DBA? I know how our HR department makes the division but would be interested in knowing how other people might classify the differences. Regards, Jay _ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Wade INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services--
RE: Jr.DBA, Mid level DBA, Sr.DBA
I would.. but that can't go in a book from Oracle Press as they are associated with Oracle :) --- Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You need to add one more line... Senior DBAs run through buildings Eat the bullets Throw the locomotive at the users Are Oracle Gods (or Goddesses)! ... and know they are not Larry Ellison. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High okay, the definitive answer, from the soon to be released Oracle9i DBA 101, Theriault, Carmichael and Viscusi: This bit of humor was circulating around electronic mail a while ago. We don't know who wrote it, but it's a fun twist on an old joke: CIOs leap tall buildings in a single bound Are faster than a speeding bullet (rats, missed him again) Are more powerful than a locomotive Talk to God Sr. Managers leap short buildings with a running start Are faster than a BB gun Are more powerful than a streetcar Ask God questions Midlevel DBAs can clear a single-story house most of the time Can outrun the arrows that users shoot at them, with a head start Get run over by bicycles Beg God not to notice them Junior DBAs trip over the stoop Wonder why there are holes in their body Say ?Look at the choo-choo? Make God mad by asking, ?What happens if I turn off the server?? Senior DBAs run through buildings Eat the bullets Throw the locomotive at the users Are Oracle Gods (or Goddesses)! --- Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speedy Gonzalez accent Senior DBA... isn't that someone from Spain? /Speedy Gonzalez accent -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Importance: High by your definition I would say no one is a senior dba... there is too much in Oracle for one person to know it all, so every DBA, no matter how experienced, is going to ask for help if they are facing something new. I wouldn't say asking for help means you aren't senior. I consider people like Cary, Gaja, Tim, Steve, etc etc (all the Oak Table members) as well as a large number of people on this list as senior. Yet I also see them asking questions on occasion. One doesn't wipe out the other Senior DBA to me is a DBA who can not just research the docs and websites but who is able to THINK. This means putting together varied and assorted pieces of seemingly unrelated information to solve a problem. The ability to see a larger picture and to understand it. Rachel -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author:
