RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby
-Original Message-
What do we want to know?
1. Are we on the write way, (do you have any other idea)?
Yes, you're on the right track.
2. Does that concept have some misses?
This concept does not give you the fault tolerance. It will only make
it easy for you to have an up-to-date reporting database. For the fault
tolerance,
you will have to use parallel server option.
3. What is your opinion and experience on that subject?
4. What is your experience with implementing and administering of such
configuration?
5. Could you explain us basic concept of starting up of target database
through SRDF and
Time Finder. Sales people from EMC2 told us that some APIs are used for
this purpose.
Do we have to customize it, or write some programs or scripts?
6. Do you use some special monitoring tools?
SRDF is, essentially, a very fast backup facility which copies "disk-disk".
We don't
use the so called "media layer" with SRDF, which means that we put the
database in the
backup mode ("alter tablespace ... begin backup;"), SRDF it to another
array and do the
full database recovery. It is an automated script and the database
synchronization (copy
recovery) is done in 1.5 hours. We don't use time finder. As for the
monitoring tools,
our sysadmins use a tool from EMC that shows them potentially "hot" disk
drives.
Data loss never happens, because of the configuration (redundant
everything).
7. Could you describe us your step-by-step scenario for starting up target
system in case of primary sitefailure, and specially if your
target
site at the time of the failure is open for reporting.
8. What if:
- primary site server fails (loosig data in cache)?
You MUST use Oracle Parallel Server if you want to protect yourself from
thedata loss.
- EMC storrage system fails ?
Hot swappable, redundant everything system which can tolerate any single
point of failure,
combined with the under 2 hours of response time 24x7, 365 days a year will
take care of that.
- Network fails?
Redundant network connections with steep penalties if the provider does not
meet it's
obligations.
- Corrupted blocks (Oracle side)?
You have to do database recovery, but that does not happen very frequently.
9. Have you ever experienced failure and downtime?
Yes, the cause was the application software, and in one case a bad oracle
bug which
allowed duplicate data in the primary key (under special conditions and on
OPS)
10. After all, do you recommend us such configuration?
Yes, I would, but keep in mind that prices for such configurations
are very high ( $5,000,000)
--
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--
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RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby
So, Jared, are you auditioning for Louis Rukeyser's job? 8-) Lisa can probably explain better, but as I recall, BCV is something Backup Control Volumes. It's a third mirror that can be split off from the other two and used for a cold backup (e.g. shutdown Oracle database, split BCVs from the mirror set, restart Oracle (this takes like 5 minutes or less); run cold backup at your leisure). Then they can be re-attached to the mirrored disks at any time and the BCVs are synchronized with the mirrored disks automagically. Right Lisa? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/21/01 11:17PM Ok, does someone one to define SRDF and BCV for those of us that don't have any idea what you're talking about? Jared On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Koivu, Lisa wrote: Hi Yosi, how are you? I can't exactly clarify your fish vs. potatoes, er, timefinder vs. SRDF question but I can tell you that we have BCV's implemented here. We use them for backup and recovery (and it's extremely slick and fast, let me tell you! Worth every penny we paid) However you can also mount the BCV's and access the data. Honestly I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be able to install Oracle on this server and open up a read-only database on the BCV's. Except for maybe the fact that my employer practically chokes when Oracle quotes pricing. We are running HP/UX. If you want more specific info, email me directly and I'll be glad to answer questions. Have a great day... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tim Sawmiller INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby
Title: RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby I am sorry Jared... BCV = Business Continuous Volume. Basically a third mirror that can be split off and manipulated. This means you will never, ever, ever lose a disk. Ever, ever. EMC knows about any problems long before it gets to the point where you lose a disk, and their support is fantastic. BCVs are NOT a hot standby database. Recovering utilizing BCV's is more like recovering from a hot backup to the point in time when the backup was taken. I suppose you could manipulate them so they are like a hot standby (always re-syncing) but I don't know what kind of overhead that would impose. SRDF = Symmetrix Remote Data Facility. Remote mirroring for disaster recovery. I cannot sing the praises of EMC enough... Lisa -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 11:20 PM To: Koivu, Lisa Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby Ok, does someone one to define SRDF and BCV for those of us that don't have any idea what you're talking about? Jared On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Koivu, Lisa wrote: Hi Yosi, how are you? I can't exactly clarify your fish vs. potatoes, er, timefinder vs. SRDF question but I can tell you that we have BCV's implemented here. We use them for backup and recovery (and it's extremely slick and fast, let me tell you! Worth every penny we paid) However you can also mount the BCV's and access the data. Honestly I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be able to install Oracle on this server and open up a read-only database on the BCV's. Except for maybe the fact that my employer practically chokes when Oracle quotes pricing. We are running HP/UX. If you want more specific info, email me directly and I'll be glad to answer questions. Have a great day... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator
RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby
Tim, That sounds about right. SRDF is something like Symmetrix Remote Data Facility and is basically mirrored disks at a remote site. Rachel From: "Tim Sawmiller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 04:30:26 -0800 So, Jared, are you auditioning for Louis Rukeyser's job? 8-) Lisa can probably explain better, but as I recall, BCV is something Backup Control Volumes. It's a third mirror that can be split off from the other two and used for a cold backup (e.g. shutdown Oracle database, split BCVs from the mirror set, restart Oracle (this takes like 5 minutes or less); run cold backup at your leisure). Then they can be re-attached to the mirrored disks at any time and the BCVs are synchronized with the mirrored disks automagically. Right Lisa? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/21/01 11:17PM Ok, does someone one to define SRDF and BCV for those of us that don't have any idea what you're talking about? Jared On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Koivu, Lisa wrote: Hi Yosi, how are you? I can't exactly clarify your fish vs. potatoes, er, timefinder vs. SRDF question but I can tell you that we have BCV's implemented here. We use them for backup and recovery (and it's extremely slick and fast, let me tell you! Worth every penny we paid) However you can also mount the BCV's and access the data. Honestly I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be able to install Oracle on this server and open up a read-only database on the BCV's. Except for maybe the fact that my employer practically chokes when Oracle quotes pricing. We are running HP/UX. If you want more specific info, email me directly and I'll be glad to answer questions. Have a great day... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tim Sawmiller INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby
FYI - SRDF: http://www.emc.com/products/networking/srdf.jsp BCV: Business Continuance Volumes uses Timefinder Software, a must for every EMC installation! http://www.emc.com/products/software/timefinder.jsp +++ Gene Sais Database/Systems Administrator COCC Automation Services Department 205 North Dixie Highway, Room 2.2209 West Palm Beach, FL 33401 C: 561.662.2018 [#3] F: 561.355.2600 P: 561.355.3467 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] +++ [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/22/01 07:30AM So, Jared, are you auditioning for Louis Rukeyser's job? 8-) Lisa can probably explain better, but as I recall, BCV is something Backup Control Volumes. It's a third mirror that can be split off from the other two and used for a cold backup (e.g. shutdown Oracle database, split BCVs from the mirror set, restart Oracle (this takes like 5 minutes or less); run cold backup at your leisure). Then they can be re-attached to the mirrored disks at any time and the BCVs are synchronized with the mirrored disks automagically. Right Lisa? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/21/01 11:17PM Ok, does someone one to define SRDF and BCV for those of us that don't have any idea what you're talking about? Jared On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Koivu, Lisa wrote: Hi Yosi, how are you? I can't exactly clarify your fish vs. potatoes, er, timefinder vs. SRDF question but I can tell you that we have BCV's implemented here. We use them for backup and recovery (and it's extremely slick and fast, let me tell you! Worth every penny we paid) However you can also mount the BCV's and access the data. Honestly I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be able to install Oracle on this server and open up a read-only database on the BCV's. Except for maybe the fact that my employer practically chokes when Oracle quotes pricing. We are running HP/UX. If you want more specific info, email me directly and I'll be glad to answer questions. Have a great day... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tim Sawmiller INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gene Sais INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby
List hi! I have a "few" questions on thet subject: What we need: Primary site - 24x7 OLTP database access Backup site - a. Failover site b. Disaster Recovery site c. Reporting database - In case of loosing funcionality one of the site takes the production on itself - The Hardware and Software at the Bakup site should be used for production a. Aplication servers on all sites work in load balancing (end users should not be aware that they are working at the other site). b. Database server on backup site should be used for reporting - REPORTS are created through our applications (possibilly writing records in some temporary tables) - Stopping of production because of all types of changes (upgrade of RDBMS, changes in structure of the tables, ...) must be minimal, preferable none! Idea: Through the combination of Symmetrix EMC2 disks, SRDF (Symmetrix Remote Data Facilities) and Time Finder (EMC2 software) make up-to-date reporting Oracle instance on target (backup) site. What do we want to know? 1. Are we on the write way, (do you have any other idea)? 2. Does that concept have some misses? 3. What is your opinion and experience on that subject? 4. What is your experience with implementing and administering of such configuration? 5. Could you explain us basic concept of starting up of target database through SRDF and Time Finder. Sales people from EMC2 told us that some APIs are used for this purpose. Do we have to customize it, or write some programs or scripts? 6. Do you use some special monitoring tools? 7. Could you describe us your step-by-step scenario for starting up target system in case of primary sitefailure, and specially if your target site at the time of the failure is open for reporting. 8. What if: - primary site server fails (loosig data in cache)? - EMC storrage system fails ? - Network fails? - Corrupted blocks (Oracle side)? 9. Have you ever experienced failure and downtime? 10. After all, do you recommend us such configuration? TIA, Sonja -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?windows-1250?Q?Sonja_=8Aehovi=E6?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, does someone one to define SRDF and BCV for those of us that don't have any idea what you're talking about? Jared BCV stands for Business Continuation Volume, in essence an extra mirror of a volume that can be snapped off to use for backup or reporting uses when mounted on another server. [eeep... i just answered a question from the List God(tm);-)] -- Bill Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby
Title: RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby In not so many words, you are right, Tim... 'cept we don't shut down, we do hot backup. -Original Message- From: Tim Sawmiller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 7:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby So, Jared, are you auditioning for Louis Rukeyser's job? 8-) Lisa can probably explain better, but as I recall, BCV is something Backup Control Volumes. It's a third mirror that can be split off from the other two and used for a cold backup (e.g. shutdown Oracle database, split BCVs from the mirror set, restart Oracle (this takes like 5 minutes or less); run cold backup at your leisure). Then they can be re-attached to the mirrored disks at any time and the BCVs are synchronized with the mirrored disks automagically. Right Lisa? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/21/01 11:17PM Ok, does someone one to define SRDF and BCV for those of us that don't have any idea what you're talking about? Jared On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Koivu, Lisa wrote: Hi Yosi, how are you? I can't exactly clarify your fish vs. potatoes, er, timefinder vs. SRDF question but I can tell you that we have BCV's implemented here. We use them for backup and recovery (and it's extremely slick and fast, let me tell you! Worth every penny we paid) However you can also mount the BCV's and access the data. Honestly I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be able to install Oracle on this server and open up a read-only database on the BCV's. Except for maybe the fact that my employer practically chokes when Oracle quotes pricing. We are running HP/UX. If you want more specific info, email me directly and I'll be glad to answer questions. Have a great day... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tim Sawmiller INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby
Yeah, that's it, Business Continuation Volume. The client site I was at was going to use that for a daily cold backup, and leave it disconnected for use as a "reporting" database. It was going to be a poor man's data warehouse. Not the best idea, but a method to at least get started. The plan was to re-synch in the early evening, then do the whole shutdown, detach, startup, backup process again. I do remember one flaw in the plan was that you couldn't have a second database instance on the same server accessing the BCVs because the disk addressing would conflict with the mirrored disks, so they needed a second, smaller server to mount the BCVs to for handling the second reporting database. The server involved was IBM AIX. I believe HP has the same limitation. Dunno if the limitation is server based or if it's a general disk addressing issue. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/22/01 08:15AM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, does someone one to define SRDF and BCV for those of us that don't have any idea what you're talking about? Jared BCV stands for Business Continuation Volume, in essence an extra mirror of a volume that can be snapped off to use for backup or reporting uses when mounted on another server. [eeep... i just answered a question from the List God(tm);-)] -- Bill Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA Telergy, Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tim Sawmiller INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby
I believe fiber channel makes this possible because it allow drives to be separated by about 60 kilometers (or is it 100?) without having any latency problems. I read somewhere that some shops have been able to roll their own SRDF/BCV-like triple mirror solution without having to buy huge, expensive 3rd party "boxed" solutions. Has anyone done this or know of anyone else who has? I'd like to have some mirrored drives on opposite sides of the San Francisco Bay... of course this won't help me in a massive earthquake where the entire state of California slips into the Pacific Ocean. ;-) Steve Orr -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 5:36 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tim, That sounds about right. SRDF is something like Symmetrix Remote Data Facility and is basically mirrored disks at a remote site. Rachel From: "Tim Sawmiller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 04:30:26 -0800 So, Jared, are you auditioning for Louis Rukeyser's job? 8-) Lisa can probably explain better, but as I recall, BCV is something Backup Control Volumes. It's a third mirror that can be split off from the other two and used for a cold backup (e.g. shutdown Oracle database, split BCVs from the mirror set, restart Oracle (this takes like 5 minutes or less); run cold backup at your leisure). Then they can be re-attached to the mirrored disks at any time and the BCVs are synchronized with the mirrored disks automagically. Right Lisa? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/21/01 11:17PM Ok, does someone one to define SRDF and BCV for those of us that don't have any idea what you're talking about? Jared On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Koivu, Lisa wrote: Hi Yosi, how are you? I can't exactly clarify your fish vs. potatoes, er, timefinder vs. SRDF question but I can tell you that we have BCV's implemented here. We use them for backup and recovery (and it's extremely slick and fast, let me tell you! Worth every penny we paid) However you can also mount the BCV's and access the data. Honestly I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be able to install Oracle on this server and open up a read-only database on the BCV's. Except for maybe the fact that my employer practically chokes when Oracle quotes pricing. We are running HP/UX. If you want more specific info, email me directly and I'll be glad to answer questions. Have a great day... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tim Sawmiller INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve Orr INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet ac
RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby
Just make sure you have a mirror on each side of the fault line... [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/22/01 10:56AM I believe fiber channel makes this possible because it allow drives to be separated by about 60 kilometers (or is it 100?) without having any latency problems. I read somewhere that some shops have been able to roll their own SRDF/BCV-like triple mirror solution without having to buy huge, expensive 3rd party "boxed" solutions. Has anyone done this or know of anyone else who has? I'd like to have some mirrored drives on opposite sides of the San Francisco Bay... of course this won't help me in a massive earthquake where the entire state of California slips into the Pacific Ocean. ;-) Steve Orr -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 5:36 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tim, That sounds about right. SRDF is something like Symmetrix Remote Data Facility and is basically mirrored disks at a remote site. Rachel From: "Tim Sawmiller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 04:30:26 -0800 So, Jared, are you auditioning for Louis Rukeyser's job? 8-) Lisa can probably explain better, but as I recall, BCV is something Backup Control Volumes. It's a third mirror that can be split off from the other two and used for a cold backup (e.g. shutdown Oracle database, split BCVs from the mirror set, restart Oracle (this takes like 5 minutes or less); run cold backup at your leisure). Then they can be re-attached to the mirrored disks at any time and the BCVs are synchronized with the mirrored disks automagically. Right Lisa? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/21/01 11:17PM Ok, does someone one to define SRDF and BCV for those of us that don't have any idea what you're talking about? Jared On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Koivu, Lisa wrote: Hi Yosi, how are you? I can't exactly clarify your fish vs. potatoes, er, timefinder vs. SRDF question but I can tell you that we have BCV's implemented here. We use them for backup and recovery (and it's extremely slick and fast, let me tell you! Worth every penny we paid) However you can also mount the BCV's and access the data. Honestly I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be able to install Oracle on this server and open up a read-only database on the BCV's. Except for maybe the fact that my employer practically chokes when Oracle quotes pricing. We are running HP/UX. If you want more specific info, email me directly and I'll be glad to answer questions. Have a great day... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tim Sawmiller INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve Orr INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-
RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby
BCV = Business Continuation Volume Geez, this was obviously the work of some marketing drone so it would sound impressive to clueless clients. I know the concept, but have never heard it called by his acronym. Thanks all fro the explanations. Jared On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Tim Sawmiller wrote: So, Jared, are you auditioning for Louis Rukeyser's job? 8-) Lisa can probably explain better, but as I recall, BCV is something Backup Control Volumes. It's a third mirror that can be split off from the other two and used for a cold backup (e.g. shutdown Oracle database, split BCVs from the mirror set, restart Oracle (this takes like 5 minutes or less); run cold backup at your leisure). Then they can be re-attached to the mirrored disks at any time and the BCVs are synchronized with the mirrored disks automagically. Right Lisa? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/21/01 11:17PM Ok, does someone one to define SRDF and BCV for those of us that don't have any idea what you're talking about? Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby
Title: RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby Hi Yosi, how are you? I can't exactly clarify your fish vs. potatoes, er, timefinder vs. SRDF question but I can tell you that we have BCV's implemented here. We use them for backup and recovery (and it's extremely slick and fast, let me tell you! Worth every penny we paid) However you can also mount the BCV's and access the data. Honestly I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be able to install Oracle on this server and open up a read-only database on the BCV's. Except for maybe the fact that my employer practically chokes when Oracle quotes pricing. We are running HP/UX. If you want more specific info, email me directly and I'll be glad to answer questions. Have a great day... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Qode.com 4850 North State Road 7 Suite G104 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33319 V: 954.484.3191, x174 F: 954.484.2933 C: 954.658.5849 http://www.qode.com The information contained herein does not express the opinion or position of Qode.com and cannot be attributed to or made binding upon Qode.com. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 6:10 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby Hi All, Can anyone give me a quick (free!) lesson on the concepts behind timefinder? How does this differ from their standard SRDF which (to my understanding) is to split the mirror and back it up. Or is it that they add their BCV stuff to SRDF so you can access the data while the mirror is split? Then, is it like a Hot Standby DB? (We used to get something in high school that was some sort of mixture between fish and potatoes, and we could never figure out if it was fish or if it was potatoes, or both, or neither. Somehow, this is reminding me of that.) Thanks loads, Yosi -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby
Hi For each physical device a BCV is associated. This is at a physical level rather than at logical level. Timefinder is the product which synchronizes these devices and bcvs. Each of these devices and BCVs has a bit map track table to keep track of the disk tracks. This bit map indicates whether a particular disk track has changed or not after the last BCV synchronization operation. During BCV synchronization, timefinder doesn't do dumb copy all the data from primary to BCV. Instead it uses the bit map of disk tracks and copies only the disk tracks that are changed. In a typical VLDB only few percentage of the database changes every day and hence the number of tracks changed are very minimal between backups. Hence the synch process is much faster than regular OS based synchronization mechanism. Not only the backup is faster, also the recovery is faster since only the tracks changed need to be copied from the BCVs to the primary disks. SRDF is the product to keep the primary and secondary symmetrix unit in synch using SRDF links, mostly for disaster/site recovery operations. If you set up two sym units to be primary and secondary then all the writes to the primary are propagated to the secondary (synchronously or asynchronously depending upon the setup) and they are kept in synch. For example, if you have primary database in one symmetrix unit and the secondary database in the second symmetrix unit, then since every write to the redo log files are propagated, you could activate the standby database without any data loss (or very minimal loss in rare cases). All these operations are done without any host involvement. You could set up this SRDF writes such that host write system calls will succeed only after the secondary SRDF write confirms the receipt of the data to the primary. But that means performance hit. Hope this helps!! Thanks Riyaj "Re-yas" Shamsudeen Certified Oracle DBA i2 technologies www.i2.com " These are my opinions. Use at your risk" Yosi@comhill. com To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: cc: root@fatcity.Subject: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby com 03/21/01 05:10 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L Hi All, Can anyone give me a quick (free!) lesson on the concepts behind timefinder? How does this differ from their standard SRDF which (to my understanding) is to split the mirror and back it up. Or is it that they add their BCV stuff to SRDF so you can access the data while the mirror is split? Then, is it like a Hot Standby DB? (We used to get something in high school that was some sort of mixture between fish and potatoes, and we could never figure out if it was fish or if it was potatoes, or both, or neither. Somehow, this is reminding me of that.) Thanks loads, Yosi -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET:
Re: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby
Yosi, Hot standby db protects you from the data corruption. Any kind of mirroring does not - it's just a copy. HTH, Michael Netrusov, www.atelo.com - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 06:10 Hi All, Can anyone give me a quick (free!) lesson on the concepts behind timefinder? How does this differ from their standard SRDF which (to my understanding) is to split the mirror and back it up. Or is it that they add their BCV stuff to SRDF so you can access the data while the mirror is split? Then, is it like a Hot Standby DB? (We used to get something in high school that was some sort of mixture between fish and potatoes, and we could never figure out if it was fish or if it was potatoes, or both, or neither. Somehow, this is reminding me of that.) Thanks loads, Yosi -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Michael Netrusov INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: EMC TimeFinder, and EMC TimeFinder vs Hot Standby
Ok, does someone one to define SRDF and BCV for those of us that don't have any idea what you're talking about? Jared On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Koivu, Lisa wrote: Hi Yosi, how are you? I can't exactly clarify your fish vs. potatoes, er, timefinder vs. SRDF question but I can tell you that we have BCV's implemented here. We use them for backup and recovery (and it's extremely slick and fast, let me tell you! Worth every penny we paid) However you can also mount the BCV's and access the data. Honestly I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be able to install Oracle on this server and open up a read-only database on the BCV's. Except for maybe the fact that my employer practically chokes when Oracle quotes pricing. We are running HP/UX. If you want more specific info, email me directly and I'll be glad to answer questions. Have a great day... Lisa Rutland Koivu Oracle Database Administrator -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
