RE: RE: License standby database?

2002-04-04 Thread Jon Baker
Title: RE: RE: License standby database?





That's what I was told 2 years ago.


But as we have seen, Oracle has an 'evolving' licensing standard.  Or was that 'revolving'?



Jon



-Original Message-
From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 9:48 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: RE: License standby database?



That's new policy. Last time I talked to Oracle about it (a while ago,
I admit) it was "if you aren't using it and the server is not
accessible, then you don't need a license"



--- "Post, Ethan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not sure this is correct Rachel.  I sat in a conference call today
> with some
> folks and an Oracle rep and it was stated that any type of HA
> software being
> used would require additional licenses for the all possible servers
> in the
> failover cluster.  So even if Oracle is not running on server B until
> A
> fails I would need a license for B.  Of course the whole reason for
> the call
> was to discuss Oracles "evolving" licensing model.  Can anyone else
> confirm
> or deny?
> 
> - Ethan
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:38 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> yep... but it's because the database is being used, even if you don't
> use it for read-only the fact that the executables are running
> and
> the database is mounted is why you need the license.
> 
> Now, if you have a copy of all the files, and the executables on
> another machine, but DON'T run anything, THEN you don't need another
> license
> 
> 
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Jon,
> > 
> > Wrong.  You must license the second server identically to the
> > original.  The
> > reason is that a standby database can be used as a read only copy
> of
> > the
> > original.
> > 
> > Dick Goulet
> > 
> > Reply Separator
> > Author: Jon Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date:   4/2/2002 8:03 AM
> > 
> > I believe as long as it is only stand-by, no additional licensing
> > required.
> > Only one system is "functional" at a time.
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Post, Ethan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California    -- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).



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RE: RE: License standby database?

2002-04-03 Thread Steve McClure

We just ran the licensing gauntlett with Oracle ourselves.  Our sales rep
made it quite clear that if we installed the binaries we had to license it.
This in response to my manager trying all concievable options to avoid
licensing our standby database.  I am not sure the standby has to be
licensed exactly the same as the production DB, but it is no longer free.

My thought is that Oracle tried for a few years to compete price wise with
MS, and probably feel that decision has cost them more money than it earned
them.  So they are making up for lost time, and charging like they have the
best product on the market.  From one extreme to another.

Steve

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RE: RE: License standby database?

2002-04-03 Thread Gene Sais

Yep, HA means High Avalability, but usually used from a server's perspective, more 
than just Oracle.  The issue here is Oracle licensing, standy=2 databases running (aka 
Oracle HA), hence additional oracle licenses.  Server HA (HP MC Serviceguard, IBM 
HACMP, SunCluster, etc.)=1 database running shared between 2 servers with common 
storage but Oracle active on 1, hence no additional oracle license.

Gene


>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/03/02 11:38AM >>>
Gene,
HA means High Avalability. 

>>HA is a DB Server waiting to become the prod DB via
>> shared storage,

Not really. You can implement HA by any means as long
as you ensure you have "High Availability". IMHO
standby is also something that is waiting to be
activated and "to become prod server". Actually
standby is normally a better HA because shared disks
would not protect you from disks "going south".

The point under discussion here, since you have missed
it, is whether standby could be considered oracle
"running" on standby host. ORACLE reps went on record
saying that you con not since the oracle "running" on
other server is in managed recovery mode.

HTH
Cheers,
RS


--- Gene Sais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> HA is different from Standby.  Standby is an Oracle
> DB in recovery, i.e. Oracle running on 2 servers. 
> HA is a DB Server waiting to become the prod DB via
> shared storage, i.e. Oracle running on 1 server.
> 
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/03/02 09:28AM >>>
> Yea...I vaguely remember something like that being
> said to our company back in 2000. I spoke to couple
> of
> Oracle Reps and they said as long as you are using
> the
> DB for HA environment you don't need to license it
> separately. I don't know whats going on now.
> 
> Cheers,
> RS
> --- "Post, Ethan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Not sure this is correct Rachel.  I sat in a
> > conference call today with some
> > folks and an Oracle rep and it was stated that any
> > type of HA software being
> > used would require additional licenses for the all
> > possible servers in the
> > failover cluster.  So even if Oracle is not
> running
> > on server B until A
> > fails I would need a license for B.  Of course the
> > whole reason for the call
> > was to discuss Oracles "evolving" licensing model.
> 
> > Can anyone else confirm
> > or deny?
> > 
> > - Ethan
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:38 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > yep... but it's because the database is being
> used,
> > even if you don't
> > use it for read-only the fact that the
> > executables are running and
> > the database is mounted is why you need the
> license.
> > 
> > Now, if you have a copy of all the files, and the
> > executables on
> > another machine, but DON'T run anything, THEN you
> > don't need another
> > license
> > 
> > 
> > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > Jon,
> > > 
> > > Wrong.  You must license the second server
> > identically to the
> > > original.  The
> > > reason is that a standby database can be used as
> a
> > read only copy of
> > > the
> > > original.
> > > 
> > > Dick Goulet
> > > 
> > > Reply
> > Separator
> > > Author: Jon Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date:   4/2/2002 8:03 AM
> > > 
> > > I believe as long as it is only stand-by, no
> > additional licensing
> > > required.
> > > Only one system is "functional" at a time.
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > http://www.orafaq.com 
> > -- 
> > Author: Post, Ethan
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 
> FAX:
> > (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet
> > access / Mailing Lists
> >
>

> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> > E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> > 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> > ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be
> removed
> > from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information
> > (like subscribing).
> 
> 
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> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com 
> -- 
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>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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RE: RE: License standby database?

2002-04-03 Thread Sakthi , Raj

Gene,
HA means High Avalability. 

>>HA is a DB Server waiting to become the prod DB via
>> shared storage,

Not really. You can implement HA by any means as long
as you ensure you have "High Availability". IMHO
standby is also something that is waiting to be
activated and "to become prod server". Actually
standby is normally a better HA because shared disks
would not protect you from disks "going south".

The point under discussion here, since you have missed
it, is whether standby could be considered oracle
"running" on standby host. ORACLE reps went on record
saying that you con not since the oracle "running" on
other server is in managed recovery mode.

HTH
Cheers,
RS


--- Gene Sais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> HA is different from Standby.  Standby is an Oracle
> DB in recovery, i.e. Oracle running on 2 servers. 
> HA is a DB Server waiting to become the prod DB via
> shared storage, i.e. Oracle running on 1 server.
> 
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/03/02 09:28AM >>>
> Yea...I vaguely remember something like that being
> said to our company back in 2000. I spoke to couple
> of
> Oracle Reps and they said as long as you are using
> the
> DB for HA environment you don't need to license it
> separately. I don't know whats going on now.
> 
> Cheers,
> RS
> --- "Post, Ethan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Not sure this is correct Rachel.  I sat in a
> > conference call today with some
> > folks and an Oracle rep and it was stated that any
> > type of HA software being
> > used would require additional licenses for the all
> > possible servers in the
> > failover cluster.  So even if Oracle is not
> running
> > on server B until A
> > fails I would need a license for B.  Of course the
> > whole reason for the call
> > was to discuss Oracles "evolving" licensing model.
> 
> > Can anyone else confirm
> > or deny?
> > 
> > - Ethan
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:38 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > yep... but it's because the database is being
> used,
> > even if you don't
> > use it for read-only the fact that the
> > executables are running and
> > the database is mounted is why you need the
> license.
> > 
> > Now, if you have a copy of all the files, and the
> > executables on
> > another machine, but DON'T run anything, THEN you
> > don't need another
> > license
> > 
> > 
> > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > Jon,
> > > 
> > > Wrong.  You must license the second server
> > identically to the
> > > original.  The
> > > reason is that a standby database can be used as
> a
> > read only copy of
> > > the
> > > original.
> > > 
> > > Dick Goulet
> > > 
> > > Reply
> > Separator
> > > Author: Jon Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date:   4/2/2002 8:03 AM
> > > 
> > > I believe as long as it is only stand-by, no
> > additional licensing
> > > required.
> > > Only one system is "functional" at a time.
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > http://www.orafaq.com 
> > -- 
> > Author: Post, Ethan
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 
> FAX:
> > (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet
> > access / Mailing Lists
> >
>

> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> > E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> > 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> > ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be
> removed
> > from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information
> > (like subscribing).
> 
> 
> __
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> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/ 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com 
> -- 
> Author: Sakthi , Raj
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
> (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet
> access / Mailing Lists
>

> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
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> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Gene Sais
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
> (858) 538-5051
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> access / Mailing Lists
>

> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
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> to: [EMAIL PROTEC

RE: RE: License standby database?

2002-04-03 Thread Gene Sais

HA is different from Standby.  Standby is an Oracle DB in recovery, i.e. Oracle 
running on 2 servers.  HA is a DB Server waiting to become the prod DB via shared 
storage, i.e. Oracle running on 1 server.

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/03/02 09:28AM >>>
Yea...I vaguely remember something like that being
said to our company back in 2000. I spoke to couple of
Oracle Reps and they said as long as you are using the
DB for HA environment you don't need to license it
separately. I don't know whats going on now.

Cheers,
RS
--- "Post, Ethan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not sure this is correct Rachel.  I sat in a
> conference call today with some
> folks and an Oracle rep and it was stated that any
> type of HA software being
> used would require additional licenses for the all
> possible servers in the
> failover cluster.  So even if Oracle is not running
> on server B until A
> fails I would need a license for B.  Of course the
> whole reason for the call
> was to discuss Oracles "evolving" licensing model. 
> Can anyone else confirm
> or deny?
> 
> - Ethan
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:38 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> yep... but it's because the database is being used,
> even if you don't
> use it for read-only the fact that the
> executables are running and
> the database is mounted is why you need the license.
> 
> Now, if you have a copy of all the files, and the
> executables on
> another machine, but DON'T run anything, THEN you
> don't need another
> license
> 
> 
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Jon,
> > 
> > Wrong.  You must license the second server
> identically to the
> > original.  The
> > reason is that a standby database can be used as a
> read only copy of
> > the
> > original.
> > 
> > Dick Goulet
> > 
> > Reply
> Separator
> > Author: Jon Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date:   4/2/2002 8:03 AM
> > 
> > I believe as long as it is only stand-by, no
> additional licensing
> > required.
> > Only one system is "functional" at a time.
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com 
> -- 
> Author: Post, Ethan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
> (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet
> access / Mailing Lists
>

> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).


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-- 
Author: Sakthi , Raj
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--
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RE: RE: License standby database?

2002-04-03 Thread Sakthi , Raj

Yea...I vaguely remember something like that being
said to our company back in 2000. I spoke to couple of
Oracle Reps and they said as long as you are using the
DB for HA environment you don't need to license it
separately. I don't know whats going on now.

Cheers,
RS
--- "Post, Ethan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not sure this is correct Rachel.  I sat in a
> conference call today with some
> folks and an Oracle rep and it was stated that any
> type of HA software being
> used would require additional licenses for the all
> possible servers in the
> failover cluster.  So even if Oracle is not running
> on server B until A
> fails I would need a license for B.  Of course the
> whole reason for the call
> was to discuss Oracles "evolving" licensing model. 
> Can anyone else confirm
> or deny?
> 
> - Ethan
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:38 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> yep... but it's because the database is being used,
> even if you don't
> use it for read-only the fact that the
> executables are running and
> the database is mounted is why you need the license.
> 
> Now, if you have a copy of all the files, and the
> executables on
> another machine, but DON'T run anything, THEN you
> don't need another
> license
> 
> 
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Jon,
> > 
> > Wrong.  You must license the second server
> identically to the
> > original.  The
> > reason is that a standby database can be used as a
> read only copy of
> > the
> > original.
> > 
> > Dick Goulet
> > 
> > Reply
> Separator
> > Author: Jon Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date:   4/2/2002 8:03 AM
> > 
> > I believe as long as it is only stand-by, no
> additional licensing
> > required.
> > Only one system is "functional" at a time.
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Post, Ethan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
> (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet
> access / Mailing Lists
>

> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).


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Author: Sakthi , Raj
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RE: RE: License standby database?

2002-04-02 Thread Rachel Carmichael

That's new policy. Last time I talked to Oracle about it (a while ago,
I admit) it was "if you aren't using it and the server is not
accessible, then you don't need a license"


--- "Post, Ethan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not sure this is correct Rachel.  I sat in a conference call today
> with some
> folks and an Oracle rep and it was stated that any type of HA
> software being
> used would require additional licenses for the all possible servers
> in the
> failover cluster.  So even if Oracle is not running on server B until
> A
> fails I would need a license for B.  Of course the whole reason for
> the call
> was to discuss Oracles "evolving" licensing model.  Can anyone else
> confirm
> or deny?
> 
> - Ethan
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:38 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> yep... but it's because the database is being used, even if you don't
> use it for read-only the fact that the executables are running
> and
> the database is mounted is why you need the license.
> 
> Now, if you have a copy of all the files, and the executables on
> another machine, but DON'T run anything, THEN you don't need another
> license
> 
> 
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Jon,
> > 
> > Wrong.  You must license the second server identically to the
> > original.  The
> > reason is that a standby database can be used as a read only copy
> of
> > the
> > original.
> > 
> > Dick Goulet
> > 
> > Reply Separator
> > Author: Jon Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date:   4/2/2002 8:03 AM
> > 
> > I believe as long as it is only stand-by, no additional licensing
> > required.
> > Only one system is "functional" at a time.
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Post, Ethan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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-- 
Author: Rachel Carmichael
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RE: RE: License standby database?

2002-04-02 Thread Post, Ethan

Not sure this is correct Rachel.  I sat in a conference call today with some
folks and an Oracle rep and it was stated that any type of HA software being
used would require additional licenses for the all possible servers in the
failover cluster.  So even if Oracle is not running on server B until A
fails I would need a license for B.  Of course the whole reason for the call
was to discuss Oracles "evolving" licensing model.  Can anyone else confirm
or deny?

- Ethan

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:38 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


yep... but it's because the database is being used, even if you don't
use it for read-only the fact that the executables are running and
the database is mounted is why you need the license.

Now, if you have a copy of all the files, and the executables on
another machine, but DON'T run anything, THEN you don't need another
license


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Jon,
> 
> Wrong.  You must license the second server identically to the
> original.  The
> reason is that a standby database can be used as a read only copy of
> the
> original.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: Jon Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   4/2/2002 8:03 AM
> 
> I believe as long as it is only stand-by, no additional licensing
> required.
> Only one system is "functional" at a time.
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RE: RE: License standby database?

2002-04-02 Thread DENNIS WILLIAMS

Thanks to Rachel, Dick, Jon, and everyone for clarifying this issue. 
The answer falls into a disturbing pattern I'm seeing in Oracle licensing --
lots of confusion, conflicting opinions, and in the end a large invoice from
Oracle.

I participated in a META Group teleconference this morning. A number of
press reporters participated also, so you will probably be seeing press
releases over the next few days. META offered pretty good proof that Oracle
is interpreting the named licensing to be that if your data warehouse is
being loaded with data from another system that has 200 users, then your
data warehouse needs that many named user licenses. 

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:38 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


yep... but it's because the database is being used, even if you don't
use it for read-only the fact that the executables are running and
the database is mounted is why you need the license.

Now, if you have a copy of all the files, and the executables on
another machine, but DON'T run anything, THEN you don't need another
license


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Jon,
> 
> Wrong.  You must license the second server identically to the
> original.  The
> reason is that a standby database can be used as a read only copy of
> the
> original.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: Jon Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   4/2/2002 8:03 AM
> 
> I believe as long as it is only stand-by, no additional licensing
> required.
> Only one system is "functional" at a time.
> 
> 
> Jon
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 10:28 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Can someone tell me - if you have a standby database, must you carry
> a full
> Oracle license on it? Thanks.
> Dennis Williams
> DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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> Lists
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> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RE: License standby database?
> 
> 
> 
> I believe as long as it is only stand-by, no
> additional
> licensing required.  Only one system is "functional"
> at a
> time.
> 
> 
> 
> Jon
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [
HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 10:28 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: License standby database?
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone tell me - if you have a standby database,
> must you
> carry a full
> Oracle license on it? Thanks.
> Dennis Williams
> DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:  HREF="http://www.orafaq.com";
> TARGET="_blank">http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> Fat City Network Services    -- (858)
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> California   
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SIZE=2><
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> T>
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