Re: The OCP bar is being raised
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: additional tests to convert it OCP7, took the two upgrades for 8 and 8i respectively. I never studied for the tests, in fact, I took them on the spur of the moment each time. I had never worked with 8 or 8i when I took those upgrades. so what does that tell you? tells me that you are either twice lucky or the goddess that people call you .. lol go for the goddess, the lady is wyy smart. trust me in this.;-) -- -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. No program done by a hacker will work unless he is on the system. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: bill thater INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: The OCP bar is being raised
additional tests to convert it OCP7, took the two upgrades for 8 and 8i respectively. I never studied for the tests, in fact, I took them on the spur of the moment each time. I had never worked with 8 or 8i when I took those upgrades. so what does that tell you? tells me that you are either twice lucky or the goddess that people call you .. lol have a good one you all and peace please :) Deepak PS: boy .. i must be really dumb .. cuz i sure had to read the jason couchman guide to get thru the 8i ocp ..btw his 9i upgrade exam guide is due on Jan 15th .. and you guessed right .. i will be in the line at borders or someplace to grab my copy:) --- Rachel Carmichael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John, the thing that scares me about OCP is not that the technical interviews won't catch people who don't know anything. If I can't tech someone and find out that they just know what they studied for OCP, I shouldn't be doing tech interviews. What I find disturbing is when the HR department makes the rule that unless a candidate has OCP on their resume, you can't hire them. It's the people who don't understand what is behind those initials who then make rules based on them that are worrisome. As an example, I have a FANTASTIC associate DBA. He's smart, quick to learn, motivated to learn on his own, curious and willing to ask for help. He doesn't have OCP. He doesn't have a college degree (he's ex-military and got his computer training there). If HR had had a policy that I could only hire someone with a college degree or someone with OCP, I would have lost one of the best assistants I've ever had. I have OCP through 8i. I took chauncey, took the additional tests to convert it OCP7, took the two upgrades for 8 and 8i respectively. I never studied for the tests, in fact, I took them on the spur of the moment each time. I had never worked with 8 or 8i when I took those upgrades. so what does that tell you? That I take standardized tests well, and can eliminate enough choices to be able to guess the correct answer more often than not. That pretty much qualifies me for Do You Want to Be a Millionaire but not for Oracle work. Do I list the OCP on my resume? Yes, because I am smart enough to know that it will open some doors. It's at the very end of a 4 page resume, so I don't know how often it actually gets seen. And that's my intention. I am very anxious to see just what the practicum test involves. I do wish you didn't have to take additional classes before you could qualify for it, but I understand that Oracle does try to make a profit. I'd like to see them accept an equivalent exam from somewhere else as well. If they are going to mimic what the colleges do for higher degrees they should do it properly. Rachel --- orantdba [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Rachel, Now we are to the point, is it valuable? I say yes and I have studied for and passed the ocp for 7, upgraded to 8 and to 8i and will soon take the 9i upgrade test. I also hold the Oracle 7 certification that was offered by Chauncey before the Oracle came out with the OCP. Others say it is not. It is their dollar, and they can spend it as they wish. Ultimately the market decides value, I don't believe that any sane manager of DBA's would hire someone just because they are ocp's. Managers would tend to value relevant experience, the interview process, and degrees well before looking at ocp's. So why do I think it is important? The first person who sees your resume is usually in the HR department. They cannot hire you but they can file your resume in the circular file. Cute little designations like OCA, OCP, OCM, MCP, MCSE, CNE, etc help get you past those people and on to the people who can actually understand you when you talke about performing block dumps and interrogating the itl. Those people can say yes and will because of my experience and interview presence. They will probably not care one bit about the cute little designations, but it is irrevelant if I don't get to talk to them. I have had the discussion at oow, etc with more than a few people (perhaps even you) asking if you had two candidates with exactly the same criterias but one had OCP and one didn't which would you hire? This is a little like the If god is all powerful can he make a rock so big that he himself cannot pick it up question. In the case described above I would probably go to things like Which is cheaper?, Which had experience that most matched my project?, Which had the best personality match for my group?. I don't think OCP would make that much of a difference. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John, I have no objection to Oracle trying to make money (heck, I own stock, I WANT and expect them to
Re: The OCP bar is being raised
John, the thing that scares me about OCP is not that the technical interviews won't catch people who don't know anything. If I can't tech someone and find out that they just know what they studied for OCP, I shouldn't be doing tech interviews. What I find disturbing is when the HR department makes the rule that unless a candidate has OCP on their resume, you can't hire them. It's the people who don't understand what is behind those initials who then make rules based on them that are worrisome. As an example, I have a FANTASTIC associate DBA. He's smart, quick to learn, motivated to learn on his own, curious and willing to ask for help. He doesn't have OCP. He doesn't have a college degree (he's ex-military and got his computer training there). If HR had had a policy that I could only hire someone with a college degree or someone with OCP, I would have lost one of the best assistants I've ever had. I have OCP through 8i. I took chauncey, took the additional tests to convert it OCP7, took the two upgrades for 8 and 8i respectively. I never studied for the tests, in fact, I took them on the spur of the moment each time. I had never worked with 8 or 8i when I took those upgrades. so what does that tell you? That I take standardized tests well, and can eliminate enough choices to be able to guess the correct answer more often than not. That pretty much qualifies me for Do You Want to Be a Millionaire but not for Oracle work. Do I list the OCP on my resume? Yes, because I am smart enough to know that it will open some doors. It's at the very end of a 4 page resume, so I don't know how often it actually gets seen. And that's my intention. I am very anxious to see just what the practicum test involves. I do wish you didn't have to take additional classes before you could qualify for it, but I understand that Oracle does try to make a profit. I'd like to see them accept an equivalent exam from somewhere else as well. If they are going to mimic what the colleges do for higher degrees they should do it properly. Rachel --- orantdba [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Rachel, Now we are to the point, is it valuable? I say yes and I have studied for and passed the ocp for 7, upgraded to 8 and to 8i and will soon take the 9i upgrade test. I also hold the Oracle 7 certification that was offered by Chauncey before the Oracle came out with the OCP. Others say it is not. It is their dollar, and they can spend it as they wish. Ultimately the market decides value, I don't believe that any sane manager of DBA's would hire someone just because they are ocp's. Managers would tend to value relevant experience, the interview process, and degrees well before looking at ocp's. So why do I think it is important? The first person who sees your resume is usually in the HR department. They cannot hire you but they can file your resume in the circular file. Cute little designations like OCA, OCP, OCM, MCP, MCSE, CNE, etc help get you past those people and on to the people who can actually understand you when you talke about performing block dumps and interrogating the itl. Those people can say yes and will because of my experience and interview presence. They will probably not care one bit about the cute little designations, but it is irrevelant if I don't get to talk to them. I have had the discussion at oow, etc with more than a few people (perhaps even you) asking if you had two candidates with exactly the same criterias but one had OCP and one didn't which would you hire? This is a little like the If god is all powerful can he make a rock so big that he himself cannot pick it up question. In the case described above I would probably go to things like Which is cheaper?, Which had experience that most matched my project?, Which had the best personality match for my group?. I don't think OCP would make that much of a difference. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John, I have no objection to Oracle trying to make money (heck, I own stock, I WANT and expect them to make money!) The problem is not that they are trying to make money, but that this is becoming something you HAVE to do/have to get a job working with Oracle. And they haven't convinced me of the value of that piece of paper. I know way too many certified DBAs who I wouldn't trust to even query my databases. Rachel --- orantdba [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm, Imagine that, a publicly traded company that it trying to make money, I am shocked dismayed, I don't believe I will be able to sleep tonight. Chris, could you provide me with the list of companies that are not trying to make money? I want to make sure that I don't go to work for them, or learn their products. John :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
OCD = good drugs :) (obsessive compulsive disorder) --- Khedr, Waleed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OCP, OCA, OCM, OCD = ? How can you bring money? -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htm l for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: The OCP bar is being raised
I'm thinking of changing my handle to obviousman? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should we parse you handle, O,rant, DBA. That's it! R- Original Message -To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:03 AM Hi all,The oca exams are the same exams you would take on the way to being anOCP under the current program. The only difference is along the way youcan get a designation of OCA. Not unlike Microsofts MCP.John[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From the website:--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass allrequired exams--in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level.The way I read that, you have to have the OCA exams before you can getthe OCP. So if you take and pass the OCP, until you pay for and passthe OCA, you cannot get the OCP certificat and recognition and youcannot even take the OCM.--Chris-Original Message-From: SARKAR, Samir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:28 AMTo: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Subject: RE: The OCP bar is b eing raisedChris,Am not clear on this. To b an OCP, we require to pass 5examsright ?? So, if we get theOCP Associate after passing 2 exams, we need to pass only another3 exams for getting OCPor do we have to go through all the 5 exams all over again ??I think we can directly sit for the OCP tests though instead ofgoing through the OCA. But to get theOCP Master, we will necessarily have to b a OCP.Do correct me if I am wrong though.Regards,SamirSamir SarkarOracle DBA - Lennon TeamSchlumberger SemaEmail : [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76217Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018-Original Message-From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 10 January 2002 15:05To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raisedI'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirementsfor each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we wouldfirst have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entrylevel cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can wetake the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM andthat is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed.So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has tospend money in a class that they could probably teach fr ommemory before they can get certification and that is aftergetting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me acynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab.From the website:--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role.Typically,--two exams are required; the first one can be taken via theInternet,--while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctoredenvironment. By--completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way towardachieving the-- Oracle Certified Professional credential.--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must passall required exams--in your selected job role, including those at the Associatelevel.--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be anOracle--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCMcredential--requires attending two advanced level Oracle Universitycourses from--the list shown on this page as well as pas sing the OCMPracticum exam.--Chris-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ]Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: The OCP bar is being raisedAnyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: ---Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional(OCP) AchievementA recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Servicesquoted databaseprofessionals and network engineers as the fastest-growingareas of ProfessionalCertification. And in an October survey from *crn.com onCertification, 58% ofrespondents said that it is very difficult to find qualifiedOracle CertifiedProfessionals-Database Administrators.To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two newlevels of professionalachievement to DBAs
Re: The OCP bar is being raised
they are moving in the right direction with the practicum exam (although I'd want to know how practical the exam really is). Unfortunately, it's also a way to sell education courses -- you ALSO have to take TWO Oracle U classes. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: The OCP bar is being raised
John, I have no objection to Oracle trying to make money (heck, I own stock, I WANT and expect them to make money!) The problem is not that they are trying to make money, but that this is becoming something you HAVE to do/have to get a job working with Oracle. And they haven't convinced me of the value of that piece of paper. I know way too many certified DBAs who I wouldn't trust to even query my databases. Rachel --- orantdba [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm, Imagine that, a publicly traded company that it trying to make money, I am shocked dismayed, I don't believe I will be able to sleep tonight. Chris, could you provide me with the list of companies that are not trying to make money? I want to make sure that I don't go to work for them, or learn their products. John :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
Re: The OCP bar is being raised
Hi Rachel, Now we are to the point, is it valuable? I say yes and I have studied for and passed the ocp for 7, upgraded to 8 and to 8i and will soon take the 9i upgrade test. I also hold the Oracle 7 certification that was offered by Chauncey before the Oracle came out with the OCP. Others say it is not. It is their dollar, and they can spend it as they wish. Ultimately the market decides value, I don't believe that any sane manager of DBA's would hire someone just because they are ocp's. Managers would tend to value relevant experience, the interview process, and degrees well before looking at ocp's. So why do I think it is important? The first person who sees your resume is usually in the HR department. They cannot hire you but they can file your resume in the circular file. Cute little designations like OCA, OCP, OCM, MCP, MCSE, CNE, etc help get you past those people and on to the people who can actually understand you when you talke about performing block dumps and interrogating the itl. Those people can say yes and will because of my experience and interview presence. They will probably not care one bit about the cute little designations, but it is irrevelant if I don't get to talk to them. I have had the discussion at oow, etc with more than a few people (perhaps even you) asking if you had two candidates with exactly the same criterias but one had OCP and one didn't which would you hire? This is a little like the "If god is all powerful can he make a rock so big that he himself cannot pick it up" question. In the case described above I would probably go to things like "Which is cheaper?", "Which had experience that most matched my project?", " Which had the best personality match for my group?". I don't think OCP would make that much of a difference. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John,I have no objection to Oracle trying to make money (heck, I own stock,I WANT and expect them to make money!)The problem is not that they are trying to make money, but that this isbecoming something you HAVE to do/have to get a job working withOracle. And they haven't convinced me of the value of that piece ofpaper. I know way too many certified DBAs who I wouldn't trust to evenquery my databases.Rachel--- orantdba [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm,Imagine that, a publicly traded company that it trying to makemoney, I am shockeddismayed, I don't believe I will be able to sleep tonight. Chris, could you provide me with the list of companies that are not trying to make money?I want to make sure that I don't go to work for them, or learn their products.John :-)[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab.From the website:--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential.--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams--in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
To be honest, I think this is actually lowering the bar. Oracle finally realized that the OCP has no value to an organization unless you induce the word Master. This has been taken from their former certification, the Oracle Master's Certification, which was worthless and only showed that you had taken all of the courses within a specific track. Oracle is simply acting like any other software vendor and locating new ways of generating revenue. Thank You Stephen P. Karniotis Technical Alliance Manager Compuware Corporation Direct: (248) 865-4350 Mobile: (248) 408-2918 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:www.compuware.com -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htm l for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Karniotis, Stephen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Title: RE: The OCP bar is being raised I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Title: RE: The OCP bar is being raised Chris, Am not clear on this. To b an OCP, we require to pass 5 examsright ?? So, if we get the OCP Associate after passing 2 exams, we need to pass only another 3 exams for getting OCP or do we have to go through all the 5 exams all over again ?? I think we can directly sit for the OCP tests though instead of going through the OCA. But to get the OCP Master, we will necessarily have to b a OCP. Do correct me if I am wrong though. Regards, Samir Samir Sarkar Oracle DBA - Lennon Team SchlumbergerSema Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217 EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76217 Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018 -Original Message-From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 10 January 2002 15:05To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). ___ This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions
Re: The OCP bar is being raised
Dick, I see value in the addition of the two levels of certification. With the addition of the OCA certification it will allow "junior" DBA's to start on the read to successful certification. Learning and understanding the basics of SQL and ADMIN should be promoted, displayed, and rewarded. It is akin to the Associates Degree that is usually acquired before the B.S. and continuing education towards the Ph.D. The addition of the OCM is a way to promote yourself as a seasoned professional that has taken the time to learn the ins and outs of the database and can be a valuable asset to a company. The new levels of certification will allow the employer to search for employees with at least a minimum certification requirement. I know that there are a LOT of professionals working as DBA's, and participate on this list, that are very good and OCM qualified but have not decided to become an OCP. Their reasons are their own and I look proudly upon their achievements and ethics. On the other hand... With the ability to take 2 tests and get an OCA , 5 test to get an OCP, and take 2 additional courses plus a practicum exam and you are a OCM. The requirements list that you take the courses at the Oracle training centers. Sounds like a way to keep the Oracle training centers alive. The one in Atlanta is a ghost town compared to 5 years ago. Thanks for the update info. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/10/02 09:15AM Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:---Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted databaseprofessionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of ProfessionalCertification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% ofrespondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle CertifiedProfessionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professionalachievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developersworldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualificationrequiring successful completion of two exams.The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for OracleCertified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum examon-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visithttp://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htmlfor more informationIDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001--- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com-- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing ListsTo REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
They offered the Oracle Master certification before, I was told from Oracle Canada two years ago that to earn it one had to have taken courses specifically from Oracle. I asked because they offered NT Core Technologies, and I had taken the same course from a Microsoft-certified training center. I met all the requirements to move on toward the Masters certificate, but when they realized I had taken courses on NT from Microsoft, they told me I could never earn the Masters Certificate. I was rather annoyed with Oracle Education for that, why would NT Core Technologies from Microsoft be different from NT Core Technologies from Oracle Education - the course titles were identical. It seemed to me that this Masters certificate was just a carrot to encourage people to purchase more instructor-led training. They had similar tracks for Solaris and HP-UX, I wonder if their attitude was the same re. courses (with identical names) offered by Sun or HP certified training centers. I think this is a good move, to split up the OCP certifications - of course that may mean more people will sign up to write exams. Rather than using the OCP exams to verify whether you remember how to use the latest features from a particular release, I wish the OCP would rather concentrate on practical database administration issues - in some cases the new features don't work properly, or are not used in real-world environments. They should include questions about new features, but not put so much emphasis on them. Questions about securing databases come to mind, it would be nice to have more of those in the OCP exams. Questions covering the most common reasons for databases failures Questions covering the most common generic TARs that people log Etc. Just my $0.02. I can't help it... Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htm l for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Title: Message From the website: --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. The way I read that, you have to have the OCA exams before you can get the OCP. So if you take and pass the OCP, until you pay for and pass the OCA, you cannot get the OCP certificat and recognitionand you cannot even take the OCM. --Chris -Original Message-From: SARKAR, Samir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:28 AMTo: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised Chris, Am not clear on this. To b an OCP, we require to pass 5 examsright ?? So, if we get the OCP Associate after passing 2 exams, we need to pass only another 3 exams for getting OCP or do we have to go through all the 5 exams all over again ?? I think we can directly sit for the OCP tests though instead of going through the OCA. But to get the OCP Master, we will necessarily have to b a OCP. Do correct me if I am wrong though. Regards, Samir Samir Sarkar Oracle DBA - Lennon Team SchlumbergerSema Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217 EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76217 Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018 -Original Message-From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 10 January 2002 15:05To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
OCP, OCA, OCM, OCD = ? How can you bring money? -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htm l for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Title: Message H...so all we have to do is appear for 2 exams and get OCA and then appear for the remaining 3 exams and upgrade ourselves to OCP...or do we need to take all the 5 exams all over again ?? Samir Samir Sarkar Oracle DBA - Lennon Team SchlumbergerSema Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217 EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76217 Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018 -Original Message-From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 10 January 2002 15:35To: SARKAR, Samir; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Cc: Bowes, ChrisSubject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised From the website: --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. The way I read that, you have to have the OCA exams before you can get the OCP. So if you take and pass the OCP, until you pay for and pass the OCA, you cannot get the OCP certificat and recognitionand you cannot even take the OCM. --Chris -Original Message-From: SARKAR, Samir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:28 AMTo: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised Chris, Am not clear on this. To b an OCP, we require to pass 5 examsright ?? So, if we get the OCP Associate after passing 2 exams, we need to pass only another 3 exams for getting OCP or do we have to go through all the 5 exams all over again ?? I think we can directly sit for the OCP tests though instead of going through the OCA. But to get the OCP Master, we will necessarily have to b a OCP. Do correct me if I am wrong though. Regards, Samir Samir Sarkar Oracle DBA - Lennon Team SchlumbergerSema Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217 EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76217 Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018 -Original Message-From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 10 January 2002 15:05To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Of course, those of us who already have the OCP and want to be called a 'master' just need to take the 2 required courses and then the OCM exam. When looking at the details, they just split the previous 5 exam OCP into two tiers, a 2 exam OCA, and a 2 exam OCP which has the OCA as a prerequisite. The Oracle Master was always available, but without a test -- it just required taking ILT courses. They just added a practicum exam to make the OCM cert. I can see your point about this being a 'money grab', but the only new item here is the OCM practicum exam -- everything else existed for 8 and 8i. -Joe At 07:05 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote: I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htmlhttp://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.comhttp://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Joe Raube INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Some correction.. Please... and only showed that you had taken all of the courses within a specific track. and only showed that you had paid for all the courses within a specific track and were present for 1st and the last day of the courses. ( 1st Day : to make sure your name was spelled correctly. Last Day: to get your Certificate/Diploma and Instructor's signature. ) - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:05 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L To be honest, I think this is actually lowering the bar. Oracle finally realized that the OCP has no value to an organization unless you induce the word Master. This has been taken from their former certification, the Oracle Master's Certification, which was worthless and only showed that you had taken all of the courses within a specific track. Oracle is simply acting like any other software vendor and locating new ways of generating revenue. Thank You Stephen P. Karniotis Technical Alliance Manager Compuware Corporation Direct: (248) 865-4350 Mobile: (248) 408-2918 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:www.compuware.com -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htm l for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Deshpande, Kirti INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Oh yeah, that's absolutly the idea behind it. For Oracle to grab more money. Personally I never gave a crap about certification. We don't need an entity like Oracle or MS to tell us how much we know. We learn stuff because we love to not because of the certificates. Yes, I do know the benefits of having a certificate but I think the companies are taken it too far with all those You must ... blah blah requirements. Why don't they just say You must pay $10,000 and we will give you a certificate. Richard Ji [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/10/02 10:05AM I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htm l for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Richard Ji INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Title: RE: The OCP bar is being raised ENRON -Original Message- From: orantdba [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:36 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: The OCP bar is being raised Hmmm, Imagine that, a publicly traded company that it trying to make money, I am shocked dismayed, I don't believe I will be able to sleep tonight. Chris, could you provide me with the list of companies that are not trying to make money? I want to make sure that I don't go to work for them, or learn their products. John :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
If you already have the 8i OCP, there is a single upgrade exam to become a 9i OCP. I'm studying for it now. -Joe At 07:40 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote: H...so all we have to do is appear for 2 exams and get OCA and then appear for the remaining 3 exams and upgrade ourselves to OCP...or do we need to take all the 5 exams all over again ?? Samir Samir Sarkar Oracle DBA - Lennon Team SchlumbergerSema Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217 EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76217 Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018 -Original Message- From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 10 January 2002 15:35 To: SARKAR, Samir; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Cc: Bowes, Chris Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised From the website: --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. The way I read that, you have to have the OCA exams before you can get the OCP. So if you take and pass the OCP, until you pay for and pass the OCA, you cannot get the OCP certificat and recognition and you cannot even take the OCM. --Chris -Original Message- From: SARKAR, Samir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:28 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised Chris, Am not clear on this. To b an OCP, we require to pass 5 examsright ?? So, if we get the OCP Associate after passing 2 exams, we need to pass only another 3 exams for getting OCP or do we have to go through all the 5 exams all over again ?? I think we can directly sit for the OCP tests though instead of going through the OCA. But to get the OCP Master, we will necessarily have to b a OCP. Do correct me if I am wrong though. Regards, Samir Samir Sarkar Oracle DBA - Lennon Team SchlumbergerSema Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217 EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76217 Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018 -Original Message- From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 10 January 2002 15:05 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Title: RE: The OCP bar is being raised Actually, looks like to me that they simply revised their Masters program. Its exactly the same requirements except they now added an exam at the end. Not to many folks were going after the Master level except for the actual Oracle employees. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Bowes, ChrisSent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 7:05 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: The OCP bar is being raised
Title: Message Hi all, The oca exams are the same exams you would take on the way to being an OCP under the current program. The only difference is along the way you can get a designation of OCA. Not unlike Microsofts MCP. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >From the website: --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. The way I read that, you have to have the OCA exams before you can get the OCP. So if you take and pass the OCP, until you pay for and pass the OCA, you cannot get the OCP certificat and recognitionand you cannot even take the OCM. --Chris -Original Message- From: SARKAR, Samir[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday,January 10, 2002 10:28 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Cc:'[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised Chris, Am not clear onthis. To b an OCP, we require to pass 5 examsright ?? So, if we getthe OCP Associate afterpassing 2 exams, we need to pass only another 3 exams for getting OCP or do we have to gothrough all the 5 exams all over again ?? I think we can directlysit for the OCP tests though instead of going through the OCA. But to getthe OCP Master, we willnecessarily have to b a OCP. Do correct me if I amwrong though. Regards, Samir Samir Sarkar Oracle DBA - Lennon Team Schlumberger Sema Email :[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217 EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 9576418 Ext. 76217 Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 9576018 -Original Message- From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 10 January 2002 15:05 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful complet
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Title: Message Wait a minute. I never said it was bad for companies to make money. My past posts on microsoft should have made that clear. If Oracle can get away with it, then hey, more power to them. My point was that they are trying to make this look oh so nice by saying "it's improved! Look at the hoops you have to go to get the OCM, they have to be good". When really all the new levels do is require more cash for the qualified people and allow bookworms to advance to a second level without experience. Fortuneately I believe in the wonders of market forces. If enough people say, "yeah right, I got your OCM right here", it'll die. If not, then when I go for certificatinon, I'll see you in OCA 101... :) --Chris -Original Message-From: orantdba [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:36 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: The OCP bar is being raised Hmmm,Imagine that, a publicly traded company that it trying to make money, I am shockeddismayed, I don't believe I will be able to sleep tonight. Chris, could you provide me with the list of companies that are not trying to make money?I want to make sure that I don't go to work for them, or learn their products.John :-)[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the-- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:---Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted databaseprofessionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of ProfessionalCertification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% ofrespondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle CertifiedProfessionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professionalachievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developersworldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualificationrequiring successful completion of two exams.The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for OracleCertified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum examon-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visithttp://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001--- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing ListsTo REMOVE yourself from this mailing
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Title: RE: The OCP bar is being raised Maybe I am completely misreading this. However, I didn't see the 8 to 9 OCP upgrade and that is why I said, you'll have to take them over again. If I am completely out to lunch and this is just a re-org of the Masters and OCP and those 8 OCP can get OCM with 2 classes and a test, then I apologize for wasting your time and bandwidth, but from what I read (and it was a quick read) even if you are 8 OCP, you still have to have the 9 OCA and OCP before you can get the 9 OCM. --Chris -Original Message- From: Joe Raube [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:41 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised Of course, those of us who already have the OCP and want to be called a 'master' just need to take the 2 required courses and then the OCM exam. When looking at the details, they just split the previous 5 exam OCP into two tiers, a 2 exam OCA, and a 2 exam OCP which has the OCA as a prerequisite. The Oracle Master was always available, but without a test -- it just required taking ILT courses. They just added a practicum exam to make the OCM cert. I can see your point about this being a 'money grab', but the only new item here is the OCM practicum exam -- everything else existed for 8 and 8i. -Joe At 07:05 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote: I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htmlhttp://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.comhttp://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
How many people outhere that you know do actually have OCM. Not ORACLE employees. Just curious... Regards, Viktor --- Bowes, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe I am completely misreading this. However, I didn't see the 8 to 9 OCP upgrade and that is why I said, you'll have to take them over again. If I am completely out to lunch and this is just a re-org of the Masters and OCP and those 8 OCP can get OCM with 2 classes and a test, then I apologize for wasting your time and bandwidth, but from what I read (and it was a quick read) even if you are 8 OCP, you still have to have the 9 OCA and OCP before you can get the 9 OCM. --Chris -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:41 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Of course, those of us who already have the OCP and want to be called a 'master' just need to take the 2 required courses and then the OCM exam. When looking at the details, they just split the previous 5 exam OCP into two tiers, a 2 exam OCA, and a 2 exam OCP which has the OCA as a prerequisite. The Oracle Master was always available, but without a test -- it just required taking ILT courses. They just added a practicum exam to make the OCM cert. I can see your point about this being a 'money grab', but the only new item here is the OCM practicum exam -- everything else existed for 8 and 8i. -Joe At 07:05 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote: I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- - --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.h tmlhttp://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels .html for more information IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 --- - - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.comhttp://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego,
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Here's the link: http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/index.html?dba9i_upgrade.html and here's the upgrade path: http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/index.html?dba9i_track.html Oracle 7.3 to Oracle9i Upgrade Path (3 exams) Candidates certified on Oracle 7.3 pass exam #1Z0-010 Oracle8: New Features for Administrators to upgrade to Oracle8, then #1Z0-020 Oracle8i: New Features for Administrators to upgrade to Oracle8i, and lastly exam #1Z0-030 Oracle9i: New Features for Administrators. This would bring you to 9i OCP level. -Joe At 08:25 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote: Maybe I am completely misreading this. However, I didn't see the 8 to 9 OCP upgrade and that is why I said, you'll have to take them over again. If I am completely out to lunch and this is just a re-org of the Masters and OCP and those 8 OCP can get OCM with 2 classes and a test, then I apologize for wasting your time and bandwidth, but from what I read (and it was a quick read) even if you are 8 OCP, you still have to have the 9 OCA and OCP before you can get the 9 OCM. --Chris -Original Message- From: Joe Raube [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:41 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised Of course, those of us who already have the OCP and want to be called a 'master' just need to take the 2 required courses and then the OCM exam. When looking at the details, they just split the previous 5 exam OCP into two tiers, a 2 exam OCA, and a 2 exam OCP which has the OCA as a prerequisite. The Oracle Master was always available, but without a test -- it just required taking ILT courses. They just added a practicum exam to make the OCM cert. I can see your point about this being a 'money grab', but the only new item here is the OCM practicum exam -- everything else existed for 8 and 8i. -Joe At 07:05 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote: I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: - --- --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevel s.htmlhttp://www.oracle.com/education
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
I know some Oracle employees that have OCD. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L How many people outhere that you know do actually have OCM. Not ORACLE employees. Just curious... Regards, Viktor -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Oracle employees typically get Oracle training for free, esp. during times when they are idle - whenever THAT happens. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 1:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: The OCP bar is being raised How many people outhere that you know do actually have OCM. Not ORACLE employees. Just curious... Regards, Viktor -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Well, there are at least 6 - from http://www.tusc.com/oracle/news/20011203a.html Niemiec joins Dr. Paul Dorsey, David Ensor, Peter Koletzke, Scott Nelson and Jeremiah Wilton in the first group of Oracle Certified Masters to be recognized by Oracle Corp -Joe At 09:15 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote: How many people outhere that you know do actually have OCM. Not ORACLE employees. Just curious... Regards, Viktor --- Bowes, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe I am completely misreading this. However, I didn't see the 8 to 9 OCP upgrade and that is why I said, you'll have to take them over again. If I am completely out to lunch and this is just a re-org of the Masters and OCP and those 8 OCP can get OCM with 2 classes and a test, then I apologize for wasting your time and bandwidth, but from what I read (and it was a quick read) even if you are 8 OCP, you still have to have the 9 OCA and OCP before you can get the 9 OCM. --Chris -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:41 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Of course, those of us who already have the OCP and want to be called a 'master' just need to take the 2 required courses and then the OCM exam. When looking at the details, they just split the previous 5 exam OCP into two tiers, a 2 exam OCA, and a 2 exam OCP which has the OCA as a prerequisite. The Oracle Master was always available, but without a test -- it just required taking ILT courses. They just added a practicum exam to make the OCM cert. I can see your point about this being a 'money grab', but the only new item here is the OCM practicum exam -- everything else existed for 8 and 8i. -Joe At 07:05 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote: I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- - --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification requiring successful completion of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.h tmlhttp://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels .html for more
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
I'm OCSlave. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:46 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I know some Oracle employees that have OCD. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L How many people outhere that you know do actually have OCM. Not ORACLE employees. Just curious... Regards, Viktor -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohan, Ross INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Khedr, Waleed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
I worked for Oracle for 14 months and then got laid off. I got 7 weeks boot camp for customizing extending apps. Then I also got another 6 weeks of training. They paid for all travel and I got my regular paycheck included. It was a sweet deal. Ken -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:55 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: The OCP bar is being raised Oracle employees typically get Oracle training for free, esp. during times when they are idle - whenever THAT happens. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 1:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: The OCP bar is being raised How many people outhere that you know do actually have OCM. Not ORACLE employees. Just curious... Regards, Viktor -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ken Janusz INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Took the time and spent the money - I'm an OCM (Enterprise Scalable mojo). Haven't had a need to flash the certificate at any interviews thus far (possibly because I haven't interviewed), so it's been mostly for self gratification. I got the Master certificate last year, so didn't have to take any exams, other then the standard 5 for OCP, simply attended the classes. Btw, the minimum is three classes, with two being part of the path you choose, and a third being mandatory Data Modeling. Or at least it was that way last year. I've been Certified since 8, but never bothered with 8i upgrade, and not planning to spend (read: waste) time on 8i, 9i, etc. Overall, I've found certification to be a useful experience, since during the process I uncovered Oracle features which were new to me. It looks good on a resume, but I hope that it never becomes a deciding factor. Gary Weber Senior DBA Charles Jones, LLC||Superior Information Services, LLC 609-530-1144, ext 5529 -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L How many people outhere that you know do actually have OCM. Not ORACLE employees. Just curious... Regards, Viktor --- Bowes, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe I am completely misreading this. However, I didn't see the 8 to 9 OCP upgrade and that is why I said, you'll have to take them over again. If I am completely out to lunch and this is just a re-org of the Masters and OCP and those 8 OCP can get OCM with 2 classes and a test, then I apologize for wasting your time and bandwidth, but from what I read (and it was a quick read) even if you are 8 OCP, you still have to have the 9 OCA and OCP before you can get the 9 OCM. --Chris -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:41 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Of course, those of us who already have the OCP and want to be called a 'master' just need to take the 2 required courses and then the OCM exam. When looking at the details, they just split the previous 5 exam OCP into two tiers, a 2 exam OCA, and a 2 exam OCP which has the OCA as a prerequisite. The Oracle Master was always available, but without a test -- it just required taking ILT courses. They just added a practicum exam to make the OCM cert. I can see your point about this being a 'money grab', but the only new item here is the OCM practicum exam -- everything else existed for 8 and 8i. -Joe At 07:05 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote: I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- - --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new
Re: The OCP bar is being raised
Should we parse you handle, O,rant, DBA. That's it! R - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:03 AM Hi all, The oca exams are the same exams you would take on the way to being an OCP under the current program. The only difference is along the way you can get a designation of OCA. Not unlike Microsofts MCP. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From the website: --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. The way I read that, you have to have the OCA exams before you can get the OCP. So if you take and pass the OCP, until you pay for and pass the OCA, you cannot get the OCP certificat and recognition and you cannot even take the OCM. --Chris -Original Message- From: SARKAR, Samir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:28 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised Chris, Am not clear on this. To b an OCP, we require to pass 5 examsright ?? So, if we get the OCP Associate after passing 2 exams, we need to pass only another 3 exams for getting OCP or do we have to go through all the 5 exams all over again ?? I think we can directly sit for the OCP tests though instead of going through the OCA. But to get the OCP Master, we will necessarily have to b a OCP. Do correct me if I am wrong though. Regards, Samir Samir Sarkar Oracle DBA - Lennon Team Schlumberger Sema Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217 EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76217 Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018 -Original Message- From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 10 January 2002 15:05 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: -- -- --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Well, for that matter, if you have Oracle8 there is a single exam to go to 8i. Its always a single exam (until they change that for more money:-) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 8:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If you already have the 8i OCP, there is a single upgrade exam to become a 9i OCP. I'm studying for it now. -Joe At 07:40 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote: H...so all we have to do is appear for 2 exams and get OCA and then appear for the remaining 3 exams and upgrade ourselves to OCP...or do we need to take all the 5 exams all over again ?? Samir Samir Sarkar Oracle DBA - Lennon Team SchlumbergerSema Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217 EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76217 Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018 -Original Message- From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 10 January 2002 15:35 To: SARKAR, Samir; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Cc: Bowes, Chris Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised From the website: --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. The way I read that, you have to have the OCA exams before you can get the OCP. So if you take and pass the OCP, until you pay for and pass the OCA, you cannot get the OCP certificat and recognition and you cannot even take the OCM. --Chris -Original Message- From: SARKAR, Samir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:28 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised Chris, Am not clear on this. To b an OCP, we require to pass 5 examsright ?? So, if we get the OCP Associate after passing 2 exams, we need to pass only another 3 exams for getting OCP or do we have to go through all the 5 exams all over again ?? I think we can directly sit for the OCP tests though instead of going through the OCA. But to get the OCP Master, we will necessarily have to b a OCP. Do correct me if I am wrong though. Regards, Samir Samir Sarkar Oracle DBA - Lennon Team SchlumbergerSema Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217 EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76217 Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018 -Original Message- From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 10 January 2002 15:05 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: --- - --- Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide
RE: The OCP bar is being raised
Title: Message Actually it is improved. First off they really have not changed all that much. They added an exam. And its an exam where you actually have to do stuff is my understanding. That is a good thing. As for the OCA. Even that is not a new concept. They always had a certified operator that was one exam. Now its called something different and its two exams. But now you can actually use those exams to go to the next level if you want. All they need to do is improve on the quality of the testing to ensure that idiots cannot pass it. However, you also should not have to be a senior DBA to pass it. A good solid DBA should be able to pass it easily. That is what it should test for. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Bowes, ChrisSent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 8:09 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised Wait a minute. I never said it was bad for companies to make money. My past posts on microsoft should have made that clear. If Oracle can get away with it, then hey, more power to them. My point was that they are trying to make this look oh so nice by saying "it's improved! Look at the hoops you have to go to get the OCM, they have to be good". When really all the new levels do is require more cash for the qualified people and allow bookworms to advance to a second level without experience. Fortuneately I believe in the wonders of market forces. If enough people say, "yeah right, I got your OCM right here", it'll die. If not, then when I go for certificatinon, I'll see you in OCA 101... :) --Chris -Original Message-From: orantdba [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:36 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: The OCP bar is being raised Hmmm,Imagine that, a publicly traded company that it trying to make money, I am shockeddismayed, I don't believe I will be able to sleep tonight. Chris, could you provide me with the list of companies that are not trying to make money?I want to make sure that I don't go to work for them, or learn their products.John :-)[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for each. You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get the OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab. From the website: --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the-- Oracle Certified Professional credential. --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. --Chris -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: The OCP bar is being raised Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:---Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted databaseprofessionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of ProfessionalCertification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% ofrespondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle CertifiedProfessionals-Database Administrators. To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professionalachievement to DBAs (and soon to be rel
