RE: The use of schemas
Ha hah, brilliant. -Original Message- Sent: 14 February 2002 03:58 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On Consultant Topic Interesting one === It's all about an intelligent consultant... Once upon a time there was a shepherd looking after his sheep on the edge of a deserted road. Suddenly a brand new Jeep Cherokee screeches to a halt next to him. The driver, a young man dressed in a suit and Ray-Ban glasses, gets out and asks the shepherd If I guess how many sheep you have, will you give me one of them? The shepherd looks at the young man, then looks at the sheep grazing and says, All right. The young man parks the car, connects the notebook and the mobile, enters a NASA site, scans the ground using his GPS, opens a data base and 60 Excel tables filled with algorithms, then prints a 150-page report on his high-tech mini-printer. He then turns to the shepherd and says You have exactly 1586 sheep here. The shepherd answers, That's correct, you can have your sheep. The young man takes the sheep and puts it in the back of his jeep. The shepherd looks at him and asks If I guess your profession, will you return my sheep to me? The young man answers Yes, why not. The shepherd says, You are a consultant! How did you know? asks the young man. Very simple, answers the shepherd First, you come here without being called. Second, you charge me a sheep to tell me something I already knew. Third, you do not understand anything about what I do, because you took my dog! === --- oracle dba [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is no problem with asking him and I will for sure ask the consultant about the reason behind this. But here is the frustrating part. The consultant have no knowledge of the application! He is brought in by the hosting company which we use to help us deploy the application. And he is trying to do too much and in this case without understanding the application. Anyways, this is a obviously a separate issue that I have to work out who is responsible for what. From: Grabowy, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: The use of schemas Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:44:17 -0800 There is the three schema method for security and integrity purposes, not quite sure why you would break it up the consultant's way. Is there a problem with asking the consultant about the split? What are the advantages? Is there some business requirement? S(he) may know of some requirement that you are not aware of?? HTH Chris -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi all, Our consultant has presented a schema design which I have never seen (not that I have seen all the designs in the world) but I also failed to see the advantage. Basically our application consists of 35 tables and all is under one schema named after the application. Granted, the application has many components such as billing tables, event tables etc. Now the consultant wants to split all 35 tables into as many as 8 different schemas! Such as a billing schema, a event schema. To me this only complicates the whole thing as now you have to manage 8 schemas and manage many grants, synonyms. Not to mention some tables are not clear cut as which component it belongs to. I just don't see what this buys us. Has anyone seen such a approach? And what's the benefit of doing so? Thanks -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Grabowy, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Manoj Jain INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: The use of schemas
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone seen such a approach? And what's the benefit of doing so? yes, and none i can see.;-) -- -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. The personal computer market is about the same size as the total potato chip market. Next year it will be about half the size of the pet food market and is fast approaching the total worldwide sales of panty hose. - James Finke, President, Commodore International Ltd. (1982) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: bill thater INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The use of schemas
Check your consultant's credentials. From what you've indicated, there is absolutely no reason to do this. Tell him he will get to do all the management of synonyms, permissions, and schema exports. I suppose he also wants separate tablespaces for each of these schemas as well? Jim Hawkins Oracle Database Administrator oracle dba [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Our consultant has presented a schema design which I have never seen (not that I have seen all the designs in the world) but I also failed to see the advantage. Basically our application consists of 35 tables and all is under one schema named after the application. Granted, the application has many components such as billing tables, event tables etc. Now the consultant wants to split all 35 tables into as many as 8 different schemas! Such as a billing schema, a event schema. To me this only complicates the whole thing as now you have to manage 8 schemas and manage many grants, synonyms. Not to mention some tables are not clear cut as which component it belongs to. I just don't see what this buys us. Has anyone seen such a approach? And what's the benefit of doing so? Thanks _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- _ Jim Hawkins Oracle Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jim Hawkins INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: The use of schemas
hmmm, consultant, complicate it, bring consultant back, get paid more . it seems a bit much 8 schema's for 35 tables. i would only separate the schema's if the objects were used by other applications. if its a self contained application, kiss :) gene [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/13/02 02:09PM Hi all, Our consultant has presented a schema design which I have never seen (not that I have seen all the designs in the world) but I also failed to see the advantage. Basically our application consists of 35 tables and all is under one schema named after the application. Granted, the application has many components such as billing tables, event tables etc. Now the consultant wants to split all 35 tables into as many as 8 different schemas! Such as a billing schema, a event schema. To me this only complicates the whole thing as now you have to manage 8 schemas and manage many grants, synonyms. Not to mention some tables are not clear cut as which component it belongs to. I just don't see what this buys us. Has anyone seen such a approach? And what's the benefit of doing so? Thanks _ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gene Sais INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The use of schemas
I agree with you. This makes no sense to me. 35 tables split into 8 schemas gives you about 4-5 tables per schema? Did you ask him/her for the methodology as to why he/she feels this is important? Oracle applications uses multiple schema's for it's components, but then, you are talking thousands of tables. Don't take a consultants recommendations laying down (and I'm a consultant!). Demand a reason behind their approach, and then, if it does not make sense, reject the proposal. Remember, he/she works for you, and customer has to agree! Hope this helps. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi all, Our consultant has presented a schema design which I have never seen (not that I have seen all the designs in the world) but I also failed to see the advantage. Basically our application consists of 35 tables and all is under one schema named after the application. Granted, the application has many components such as billing tables, event tables etc. Now the consultant wants to split all 35 tables into as many as 8 different schemas! Such as a billing schema, a event schema. To me this only complicates the whole thing as now you have to manage 8 schemas and manage many grants, synonyms. Not to mention some tables are not clear cut as which component it belongs to. I just don't see what this buys us. Has anyone seen such a approach? And what's the benefit of doing so? Thanks _ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The use of schemas
There is the three schema method for security and integrity purposes, not quite sure why you would break it up the consultant's way. Is there a problem with asking the consultant about the split? What are the advantages? Is there some business requirement? S(he) may know of some requirement that you are not aware of?? HTH Chris -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi all, Our consultant has presented a schema design which I have never seen (not that I have seen all the designs in the world) but I also failed to see the advantage. Basically our application consists of 35 tables and all is under one schema named after the application. Granted, the application has many components such as billing tables, event tables etc. Now the consultant wants to split all 35 tables into as many as 8 different schemas! Such as a billing schema, a event schema. To me this only complicates the whole thing as now you have to manage 8 schemas and manage many grants, synonyms. Not to mention some tables are not clear cut as which component it belongs to. I just don't see what this buys us. Has anyone seen such a approach? And what's the benefit of doing so? Thanks _ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Grabowy, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: The use of schemas
Oracle Applications does it this way, but then, it has over 20 thousand objects. For something this small, I would suggest 2 schemas. One to hold the tables and one to hold packages, procedures, views, etc. The only other thing to keep in mind is access control (security). Ron Thomas Hypercom, Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hit any PHB to continue... oracle12i@hot mail.com To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: cc: root@fatcity.Subject: The use of schemas com 02/13/02 12:09 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L Hi all, Our consultant has presented a schema design which I have never seen (not that I have seen all the designs in the world) but I also failed to see the advantage. Basically our application consists of 35 tables and all is under one schema named after the application. Granted, the application has many components such as billing tables, event tables etc. Now the consultant wants to split all 35 tables into as many as 8 different schemas! Such as a billing schema, a event schema. To me this only complicates the whole thing as now you have to manage 8 schemas and manage many grants, synonyms. Not to mention some tables are not clear cut as which component it belongs to. I just don't see what this buys us. Has anyone seen such a approach? And what's the benefit of doing so? Thanks _ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Thomas INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The use of schemas
Kimberly, I don't know if he used to work with financials, but I will causally ask him. :) I will for sure demand he reason for this. Thanks Rich From: Kimberly Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: The use of schemas Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:30:53 -0800 Hum, did he used to work with financials? Its kind of hard to tell without knowing more about how the database is used but I cannot think of an advantage off the top of my head. What reasons did he give? -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi all, Our consultant has presented a schema design which I have never seen (not that I have seen all the designs in the world) but I also failed to see the advantage. Basically our application consists of 35 tables and all is under one schema named after the application. Granted, the application has many components such as billing tables, event tables etc. Now the consultant wants to split all 35 tables into as many as 8 different schemas! Such as a billing schema, a event schema. To me this only complicates the whole thing as now you have to manage 8 schemas and manage many grants, synonyms. Not to mention some tables are not clear cut as which component it belongs to. I just don't see what this buys us. Has anyone seen such a approach? And what's the benefit of doing so? Thanks _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kimberly Smith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: The use of schemas
Multiple schemas can be handy if there's a reason to isolate functional areas. One reason might be so that when you fire up a tool that does ERD's you can tell it to do just the BILLING schema. Or if you wanted to export just a section to load into a test database to do development. You could make use of the multiple schemas to help assign roles. On the other hand, 35 tables really doesn't scream for such a division. Personally, I like to keep logical areas in the 8-20 tables range, but that's just because that's what is easy for me to grasp. Also, such schema divisions should really be part of the original design and should facilitate the design. Shoe horning an existing design into a mold just to be pretty can be frustrating. -rje o Our consultant has presented a schema design which I have never seen o (not that I have seen all the designs in the world) but I also failed o to see the advantage. o Basically our application consists of 35 tables and all is under one o schema named after the application. Granted, the application has many o components such as billing tables, event tables etc. o Now the consultant wants to split all 35 tables into as many as 8 o different schemas! Such as a billing schema, a event schema. To me o this only complicates the whole thing as now you have to manage 8 o schemas and manage many grants, synonyms. Not to mention some tables o are not clear cut as which component it belongs to. I just don't see o what this buys us. o Has anyone seen such a approach? And what's the benefit of doing so? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Robert Eskridge INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The use of schemas
Jim, How do you know? Yes, he wants separate tablespaces for every schema. I wonder if he knows he can still put tables into separate tablespaces without using separate schemas. :) And maybe for fun. I am going to recommend back that we use a schema per table! Rich From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Hawkins) Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: The use of schemas Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:30:51 -0800 Check your consultant's credentials. From what you've indicated, there is absolutely no reason to do this. Tell him he will get to do all the management of synonyms, permissions, and schema exports. I suppose he also wants separate tablespaces for each of these schemas as well? Jim Hawkins Oracle Database Administrator oracle dba [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Our consultant has presented a schema design which I have never seen (not that I have seen all the designs in the world) but I also failed to see the advantage. Basically our application consists of 35 tables and all is under one schema named after the application. Granted, the application has many components such as billing tables, event tables etc. Now the consultant wants to split all 35 tables into as many as 8 different schemas! Such as a billing schema, a event schema. To me this only complicates the whole thing as now you have to manage 8 schemas and manage many grants, synonyms. Not to mention some tables are not clear cut as which component it belongs to. I just don't see what this buys us. Has anyone seen such a approach? And what's the benefit of doing so? Thanks _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- _ Jim Hawkins Oracle Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jim Hawkins INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The use of schemas
Thanks Tom, I will demand an explaination for this design when I get on a call with him tomorrow. Rich From: Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: The use of schemas Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:30:47 -0800 I agree with you. This makes no sense to me. 35 tables split into 8 schemas gives you about 4-5 tables per schema? Did you ask him/her for the methodology as to why he/she feels this is important? Oracle applications uses multiple schema's for it's components, but then, you are talking thousands of tables. Don't take a consultants recommendations laying down (and I'm a consultant!). Demand a reason behind their approach, and then, if it does not make sense, reject the proposal. Remember, he/she works for you, and customer has to agree! Hope this helps. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi all, Our consultant has presented a schema design which I have never seen (not that I have seen all the designs in the world) but I also failed to see the advantage. Basically our application consists of 35 tables and all is under one schema named after the application. Granted, the application has many components such as billing tables, event tables etc. Now the consultant wants to split all 35 tables into as many as 8 different schemas! Such as a billing schema, a event schema. To me this only complicates the whole thing as now you have to manage 8 schemas and manage many grants, synonyms. Not to mention some tables are not clear cut as which component it belongs to. I just don't see what this buys us. Has anyone seen such a approach? And what's the benefit of doing so? Thanks _ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: The use of schemas
They have to make their money somehow! Our consultants have us put everything into one schema. If the various components are so different, maybe they need their own databases. Suggest that! You might as well protect your job as theirs. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:09 PM Hi all, Our consultant has presented a schema design which I have never seen (not that I have seen all the designs in the world) but I also failed to see the advantage. Basically our application consists of 35 tables and all is under one schema named after the application. Granted, the application has many components such as billing tables, event tables etc. Now the consultant wants to split all 35 tables into as many as 8 different schemas! Such as a billing schema, a event schema. To me this only complicates the whole thing as now you have to manage 8 schemas and manage many grants, synonyms. Not to mention some tables are not clear cut as which component it belongs to. I just don't see what this buys us. Has anyone seen such a approach? And what's the benefit of doing so? Thanks _ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ruth Gramolini INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The use of schemas
Just for grins, tell him you've decided to put the whole application on MySQL, and see what he does with the schema idea. --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Jim, How do you know? Yes, he wants separate tablespaces for every schema. I wonder if he knows he can still put tables into separate tablespaces without using separate schemas. :) And maybe for fun. I am going to recommend back that we use a schema per table! Rich From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Hawkins) Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: The use of schemas Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:30:51 -0800 Check your consultant's credentials. From what you've indicated, there is absolutely no reason to do this. Tell him he will get to do all the management of synonyms, permissions, and schema exports. I suppose he also wants separate tablespaces for each of these schemas as well? Jim Hawkins Oracle Database Administrator oracle dba [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Our consultant has presented a schema design which I have never seen (not that I have seen all the designs in the world) but I also failed to see the advantage. Basically our application consists of 35 tables and all is under one schema named after the application. Granted, the application has many components such as billing tables, event tables etc. Now the consultant wants to split all 35 tables into as many as 8 different schemas! Such as a billing schema, a event schema. To me this only complicates the whole thing as now you have to manage 8 schemas and manage many grants, synonyms. Not to mention some tables are not clear cut as which component it belongs to. I just don't see what this buys us. Has anyone seen such a approach? And what's the benefit of doing so? Thanks _ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- _ Jim Hawkins Oracle Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jim Hawkins INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
RE: The use of schemas
There is no problem with asking him and I will for sure ask the consultant about the reason behind this. But here is the frustrating part. The consultant have no knowledge of the application! He is brought in by the hosting company which we use to help us deploy the application. And he is trying to do too much and in this case without understanding the application. Anyways, this is a obviously a separate issue that I have to work out who is responsible for what. From: Grabowy, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: The use of schemas Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:44:17 -0800 There is the three schema method for security and integrity purposes, not quite sure why you would break it up the consultant's way. Is there a problem with asking the consultant about the split? What are the advantages? Is there some business requirement? S(he) may know of some requirement that you are not aware of?? HTH Chris -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:09 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi all, Our consultant has presented a schema design which I have never seen (not that I have seen all the designs in the world) but I also failed to see the advantage. Basically our application consists of 35 tables and all is under one schema named after the application. Granted, the application has many components such as billing tables, event tables etc. Now the consultant wants to split all 35 tables into as many as 8 different schemas! Such as a billing schema, a event schema. To me this only complicates the whole thing as now you have to manage 8 schemas and manage many grants, synonyms. Not to mention some tables are not clear cut as which component it belongs to. I just don't see what this buys us. Has anyone seen such a approach? And what's the benefit of doing so? Thanks _ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Grabowy, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: oracle dba INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: The use of schemas
oracle dba wrote: Jim, How do you know? Yes, he wants separate tablespaces for every schema. I wonder if he knows he can still put tables into separate tablespaces without using separate schemas. :) And maybe for fun. I am going to recommend back that we use a schema per table! Rich The reason for his advice (I share the general opinion on the list) may be a blue background? I have not touched DB2 for 10 years now and it may (hopefully) have totally changed now, but 'one table per tablespace' used to be something reasonable with DB2 which used to escalate locks in such a way that if many pages were locked in a table the page locks were released and the lock taken AT THE TABLESPACE LEVEL !!! -- Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole Ltd -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroult INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: The use of schemas
ROFLMFAO !!! :D JoJo -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 7:58 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On Consultant Topic Interesting one === It's all about an intelligent consultant... Once upon a time there was a shepherd looking after his sheep on the edge of a deserted road. Suddenly a brand new Jeep Cherokee screeches to a halt next to him. The driver, a young man dressed in a suit and Ray-Ban glasses, gets out and asks the shepherd If I guess how many sheep you have, will you give me one of them? The shepherd looks at the young man, then looks at the sheep grazing and says, All right. The young man parks the car, connects the notebook and the mobile, enters a NASA site, scans the ground using his GPS, opens a data base and 60 Excel tables filled with algorithms, then prints a 150-page report on his high-tech mini-printer. He then turns to the shepherd and says You have exactly 1586 sheep here. The shepherd answers, That's correct, you can have your sheep. The young man takes the sheep and puts it in the back of his jeep. The shepherd looks at him and asks If I guess your profession, will you return my sheep to me? The young man answers Yes, why not. The shepherd says, You are a consultant! How did you know? asks the young man. Very simple, answers the shepherd First, you come here without being called. Second, you charge me a sheep to tell me something I already knew. Third, you do not understand anything about what I do, because you took my dog! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: JoJo Al-Zawawi INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
