RE: Oracle Vs DB2
Oracle has some internal site for "competetive" info. You can browse the oracle site www.oracle.com to start with. You can also contact oracle "Sales" Consultants if know your Oracle Account Manager ( Sales Rep). www.oracle.com may also have some contact info ( for example some Telesales contacts) who would love the "lead", given by you. Thanks and Best Regards, -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 3:15 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list OR[Biswas, Pradip]ACLE-LSubject: Oracle Vs DB2 Dear All, Strange as it seems, my client has asked me to compare Oracle with DB2 with regard to all the DB functional aspects. They are more inclined towards DB2 and we have the application built on Oracle. We are in for a one-to-one comparison based on the features that we already have in Oracle and that are in use in our application. For eg, function based indexes, table clustering, RAC, partitioning (of all kinds - list,range,hash), External tables, to name a few. I would really appreciate if anyone can throw some light into this. Links to any sites would also be helpful. We dont have much time for this activity, so please help us. I havent worked in DB2 as well which is the biggest bottleneck that I face.Best RegardsJai
Re: Oracle Vs DB2
hi! db2 sites which i can strongly recommend are http://www-3.ibm.com/cgi-bin/db2www/data/db2/udb/winos2unix/support/v7pubs.d2w/en_main and http://www-3.ibm.com/software/data/db2/os390/v7books.html i guess you will have a close look at V7 and V8, but V5 and V6 are also there and even V4 for MVS. daniel -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Daniel Wisser INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle vs. DB2
Mike, Here is pro-IBM :) report: http://www-3.ibm.com/software/data/pubs/papers/orac91vsdb272/orac91vsdb272.p df Alexandre Hi Everyone! Well, there's been a lot of Oracle vs. Microsoft traffic on the list, but now my Manglement wants a similar comparison to IBM's DB2. Does anyone know of web sites or locations where there are documented objective comparisons between Oracle and DB2? I'm faced with answering buzzwords like 'Future Market Position', 'T.C.O. - Cost Effectiveness', 'Demonstrated Technology', and 'Platform Compatibility'. Any references are appreciated. Thanks, Mike --- === Michael P. Vergara Oracle DBA Guidant Corporation -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Vergara, Michael (TEM) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Alexandre Gorbatchev INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle vs. DB2
Mike eWeek did a head-to-head comparison among the leading databases, including Oracle and DB2. Oracle kicked butt. http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,293,00.asp In searching, I found an interesting site that provides links to all sorts of database comparisons. http://www.itsystems.lv/gints/compare_db.htm Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 5:38 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi Everyone! Well, there's been a lot of Oracle vs. Microsoft traffic on the list, but now my Manglement wants a similar comparison to IBM's DB2. Does anyone know of web sites or locations where there are documented objective comparisons between Oracle and DB2? I'm faced with answering buzzwords like 'Future Market Position', 'T.C.O. - Cost Effectiveness', 'Demonstrated Technology', and 'Platform Compatibility'. Any references are appreciated. Thanks, Mike --- === Michael P. Vergara Oracle DBA Guidant Corporation -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Vergara, Michael (TEM) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle vs. DB2
One thing that seems different to me: DBA's at the sites we work in with DB2 seem to swear by it more than at it. This is the reverse ratio I find at Oracle houses. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 800 762 1582 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steven Lembark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle vs. DB2
People like to work(and are more effective) in an environment they are comfortable with, may it be Cobol Mainframe, RPG AS/400, MS SQL Server, MySQL, Oracle or Sybase. The point here is not which one is the best database, but which combination of database and people(talent/skill) can give you the best return on investment. Pointless having to use DB2 if your people don't know anything about DB2 - even if DB2 is the best, you still can't get it off the ground if you do not have the poeple to work it. Same goes for the other databases. If you need to evaluate which is the best database, evaluate it based on which is the best database for you (databse and people included). Even MS Access can fly to the moon if you have good people working it. ltiu Quoting Steven Lembark [EMAIL PROTECTED]: One thing that seems different to me: DBA's at the sites we work in with DB2 seem to swear by it more than at it. This is the reverse ratio I find at Oracle houses. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 800 762 1582 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steven Lembark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle vs. DB2
Even MS Access can fly to the moon if you have good people working it. I wouldn't bet my money on that :-) Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 12:08 PM People like to work(and are more effective) in an environment they are comfortable with, may it be Cobol Mainframe, RPG AS/400, MS SQL Server, MySQL, Oracle or Sybase. The point here is not which one is the best database, but which combination of database and people(talent/skill) can give you the best return on investment. Pointless having to use DB2 if your people don't know anything about DB2 - even if DB2 is the best, you still can't get it off the ground if you do not have the poeple to work it. Same goes for the other databases. If you need to evaluate which is the best database, evaluate it based on which is the best database for you (databse and people included). Even MS Access can fly to the moon if you have good people working it. ltiu Quoting Steven Lembark [EMAIL PROTECTED]: One thing that seems different to me: DBA's at the sites we work in with DB2 seem to swear by it more than at it. This is the reverse ratio I find at Oracle houses. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 800 762 1582 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steven Lembark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Igor Neyman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle vs. DB2
But then this is an Oracle email list. What do you know, Oracle is da Best!! Quoting Igor Neyman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Even MS Access can fly to the moon if you have good people working it. I wouldn't bet my money on that :-) Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 12:08 PM People like to work(and are more effective) in an environment they are comfortable with, may it be Cobol Mainframe, RPG AS/400, MS SQL Server, MySQL, Oracle or Sybase. The point here is not which one is the best database, but which combination of database and people(talent/skill) can give you the best return on investment. Pointless having to use DB2 if your people don't know anything about DB2 - even if DB2 is the best, you still can't get it off the ground if you do not have the poeple to work it. Same goes for the other databases. If you need to evaluate which is the best database, evaluate it based on which is the best database for you (databse and people included). Even MS Access can fly to the moon if you have good people working it. ltiu Quoting Steven Lembark [EMAIL PROTECTED]: One thing that seems different to me: DBA's at the sites we work in with DB2 seem to swear by it more than at it. This is the reverse ratio I find at Oracle houses. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 800 762 1582 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steven Lembark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Igor Neyman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle vs. DB2
Don't take it so personal. I agree, unskilled people can bring Oracle down to Access level. But, there is no such skill, which can make Access perform at Oracle level :-) Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 1:13 PM But then this is an Oracle email list. What do you know, Oracle is da Best!! Quoting Igor Neyman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Even MS Access can fly to the moon if you have good people working it. I wouldn't bet my money on that :-) Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 12:08 PM People like to work(and are more effective) in an environment they are comfortable with, may it be Cobol Mainframe, RPG AS/400, MS SQL Server, MySQL, Oracle or Sybase. The point here is not which one is the best database, but which combination of database and people(talent/skill) can give you the best return on investment. Pointless having to use DB2 if your people don't know anything about DB2 - even if DB2 is the best, you still can't get it off the ground if you do not have the poeple to work it. Same goes for the other databases. If you need to evaluate which is the best database, evaluate it based on which is the best database for you (databse and people included). Even MS Access can fly to the moon if you have good people working it. ltiu Quoting Steven Lembark [EMAIL PROTECTED]: One thing that seems different to me: DBA's at the sites we work in with DB2 seem to swear by it more than at it. This is the reverse ratio I find at Oracle houses. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 800 762 1582 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steven Lembark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Igor Neyman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Igor Neyman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public
RE: Oracle vs. DB2
OK, I can take the subjectiveness of My DB is better than your DB, but this statement is nothing short of a marketing lie. Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA -Original Message- From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 11:08 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle vs. DB2 ... Even MS Access can fly to the moon if you have good people working it. ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jesse, Rich INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle vs. DB2
For what I've read, globally the 2 databases are equal in performance, reliability and functionnalities. Larryh E as many times said that it's only competition in the database market is DB2. I guess it really depends on your environment. Of course Oracle works on more OS (used to be anyway), but which big organisation only have one DB ? All big companies I've worked have many DB. I would be interested by any non-partial comparison between Oracle and DB2. --- Vergara, Michael (TEM) [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : Hi Everyone! Well, there's been a lot of Oracle vs. Microsoft traffic on the list, but now my Manglement wants a similar comparison to IBM's DB2. Does anyone know of web sites or locations where there are documented objective comparisons between Oracle and DB2? I'm faced with answering buzzwords like 'Future Market Position', 'T.C.O. - Cost Effectiveness', 'Demonstrated Technology', and 'Platform Compatibility'. Any references are appreciated. Thanks, Mike --- === Michael P. Vergara Oracle DBA Guidant Corporation -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Vergara, Michael (TEM) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). = Stéphane Paquette DBA Oracle, consultant entrepôt de données Oracle DBA, datawarehouse consultant [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?paquette=20stephane?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle vs. DB2
-- Vergara, Michael (TEM) [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 08/12/02 14:38:19 -0800 Hi Everyone! Well, there's been a lot of Oracle vs. Microsoft traffic on the list, but now my Manglement wants a similar comparison to IBM's DB2. Does anyone know of web sites or locations where there are documented objective comparisons between Oracle and DB2? I'm faced with answering buzzwords like 'Future Market Position', 'T.C.O. - Cost Effectiveness', 'Demonstrated Technology', and 'Platform Compatibility'. www.ibm.com -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 800 762 1582 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle VS. DB2
is that part of Larry's reducing complexity thangy? [via: ORACLE-L Digest -- Volume 2001, Number 241] -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:41:03 -0400 Subject: Oracle VS. DB2 Any comment on the following: IBM enlists ISVs in war against Oracle Strategic alliances with independent software vendors have helped IBM gain new customers for its DB2 database software. IBM also appears to be getting help from an unlikely source: Oracle Corp. http://computerworld.com/nlt/1%2C3590%2CNAV47_STO63350_NLTAM%2C00.html Personally, I believe they've hit the nail straight on the head. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle VS. DB2
Time will tell. But it appears that Larry burned quite a few bridges in the past few months. Those third party Oracle apps(SAP, Peoplesoft, etc) were bringing in easy money for Oracle. Building up the applications side of Oracle is a good thing, but you dont jump up on the highest pedstal, beat your chest and insult your, direct or in-direct, partners...like I said, time will tell. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 2:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Any comment on the following: IBM enlists ISVs in war against Oracle Strategic alliances with independent software vendors have helped IBM gain new customers for its DB2 database software. IBM also appears to be getting help from an unlikely source: Oracle Corp. http://computerworld.com/nlt/1%2C3590%2CNAV47_STO63350_NLTAM%2C00.html Personally, I believe they've hit the nail straight on the head. Dick Goulet -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Grabowy, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle VS. DB2
It seems like this is a problem which would naturally arise from selling both databases and applications and is accentuated by Ellison's ego. Henry -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 2:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Any comment on the following: IBM enlists ISVs in war against Oracle Strategic alliances with independent software vendors have helped IBM gain new customers for its DB2 database software. IBM also appears to be getting help from an unlikely source: Oracle Corp. http://computerworld.com/nlt/1%2C3590%2CNAV47_STO63350_NLTAM%2C00.html Personally, I believe they've hit the nail straight on the head. Dick Goulet -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Henry Poras INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle VS. DB2
Yup. Seems to me the worst thing that has happened to Oracle is when Ray Lane quit. Now Larry is a loose cannon. --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 1:27 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Time will tell. But it appears that Larry burned quite a few bridges in the past few months. Those third party Oracle apps(SAP, Peoplesoft, etc) were bringing in easy money for Oracle. Building up the applications side of Oracle is a good thing, but you dont jump up on the highest pedstal, beat your chest and insult your, direct or in-direct, partners...like I said, time will tell. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle VS. DB2
Errr...well, I read an article about Larry and Oracle from some business magazine. Basically, Larry was in a sailboat race, and had a near death experience. So when he came back, he decided to live life to the fullest. He started stripping power from execs, wanting to make the call on everything at the company. So with Larry making all the calls, what is the point in Ray staying? Now where did I put those SQL Server manuals?!?!?!?! -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 4:17 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yup. Seems to me the worst thing that has happened to Oracle is when Ray Lane quit. Now Larry is a loose cannon. --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 1:27 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Time will tell. But it appears that Larry burned quite a few bridges in the past few months. Those third party Oracle apps(SAP, Peoplesoft, etc) were bringing in easy money for Oracle. Building up the applications side of Oracle is a good thing, but you dont jump up on the highest pedstal, beat your chest and insult your, direct or in-direct, partners...like I said, time will tell. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Grabowy, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle vs DB2 - Oracle lost on cost
To fan the flames, a colleague here sent me this URL re. Oracle on the DB2/Informix deal: http://www.oracle.com/start/apr30informix/intro.html http://www.oracle.com/start/apr30informix/intro.html : ) Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle vs DB2
We run our web servers on Oracle Standard Edition. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 6:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: Oracle vs DB2 I just bought 3 STANDARD UPC server licenses for our site. We saved 275K by not using Enterprise. Email me if you want the details. Walt is right, they are lying to you. (The concept of trusting salespersons for technical issues is inherently wrong.) HTH, Todd Carlson Oracle 8i Certified DBA Bunge Corporation Weaver, WaltTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L wweaver@righ[EMAIL PROTECTED] tnow.comcc: Sent by: Subject: RE: Oracle vs DB2 root@fatcity. com 04/24/2001 03:16 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L That's absolutely not true, Dennis. We've purchased Oracle Standard Edition for serving web pages, and no one at Oracle told us we could not. I think you need to find some other salescritters. You're being taken for a ride. --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 1:46 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L At 01:13 PM 4/24/01 -0400, you wrote: But, I believe your comparing apples to oranges. DB2 UDB Workgroup is not the equal of Oracle Enterprise. If you want to compare apples apples, try Yes, but in order to put an Oracle database on the web, I HAVE TO USE ENTERPRISE EDITION! The salescritters say so. It has to be unlimited users. To repeat: I cannot (legally) put an Oracle database on an internet-accessible web page unless it is an unlimited-user (power-units-based) Enterprise edition version of Oracle. Let me put it another way: I HAVE TO USE ENTERPRISE EDITION! Now, it may be that every salescritter I've talked to is wrong about that, but if so, what can I do? Reach through the phone, grab them by the throat, and demand answers? (Not to say I don't *want* to) I'm not actually comparing apples to oranges if you look at it from my POV: I'm comparing the lowest cost to do what I want using Oracle, to the lowest cost to do what I want using DB2. If Oracle demands that I use Enterprise Edition with unlimited users, then that's their price. Dennis Taylor Beware of false economies. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing
RE: Oracle vs DB2
You are absolutely correct. Oracle's getting this price because they can. I wonder how much market share they will lose before Larry switches things around? When I asked my salescritter about this he said Well we sure are selling alot of licenses - Go figure... Thanks, Frank -Original Message- Patrice J Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 9:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Well, This is on topic - www.wired.com http://www.wired.com today has an article re. IBM announced that it is buying Informix for $1Billion. Ah, if only I had that kind of money myself - I could take more Oracle courses! I don't know what will happen with Informix then, does that mean they will gobble it up and DB2 will be the only option in a couple of years? Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Dennis Taylor [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 12:57 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Oracle vs DB2 Disclaimer: I am *not* trying to start a religious war, and I am *not* trying to advocate DB2. I am simply offended. Thus this post. As some may remember, I'm doing an evaluation of Oracle vs DB2 vs SQLServer to determine our future direction. Here's a datum that makes a significant difference to us, dollar-wise. With Oracle, in order to make a database accessible to the internet through a web page, you have to buy an unlimited-user enterprise license. We had a senior sales person in our office yesterday, and we asked this question a number of different ways. He bobbed and he weaved, but he did not deny it. And the quote he supplied afterwards does not address the issue at all. Cost of unlimited-user Enterprise version for our installation (your mileage may vary) = Approx $160,000 Cdn. IBM, for the same purpose, will sell you DB2 UDB Workgroup edition (1 user), and something called WE Internet Access, for a total price of $6000 Cdn. I have a written quote from an IBM salescritter to this effect. $6000. $160,000. $6000. $160,000. Hm. Let me think. I respectfully submit that Oracle's pricing structure is out of line with market realities, and may have to undergo significant revision. Dennis Taylor Don't be fooled by old cliches - He who laughs last may have just figured out the joke. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Frank N. Pettinato INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle vs DB2
Greetings Friends in California! If you felt the earth shake, don't worry. It's not an earth quake, it just Larry Ellison's reaction to the IBM-Informix deal. The man needs to spend a lot less time picking fights with Bill and a lot more time paying attention to his market, and from being end-runned. MS has money, but IBM prints the stuff. Cheers! -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 8:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L trying again... From: Eric D. Pierce [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:56:08 -0700 Subject: RE: Oracle vs DB2 Reportedly what IBM did here some years ago, was sell a mainframe hardware package (for a COBOL/VSAM package) within the University system's budget constraints. Turned out that to actually run the application, several millions of $ of additional goodies were needed. But, they got the original bid. Dealing with IBM mainframe sales critters (apparently recruited directly from some boot camp for counter terrorism?) was not exactly the same as dealing with DEC sales critters. On 24 Apr 2001, at 13:00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's that ancillary business you better watch out for!! IBM is using DB2 as their Loss-Leader. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sharpe, Richard INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle vs DB2
|| When I asked my salescritter about this he said Well we || sure are selling alot of licenses - Go figure... LoL...you know what I think? I think there was an INTERNAL memo circulated around Oracle sales that basically acknowledged the problem, and decided that DAMAGE CONTROL would be to give each complainant the FALSE IMPRESSION that they were the only one with a complaint. This would tend to ISOLATE the customer, and make them more likely to pay up than buck what they were being told was the industry trend. || || Thanks, || Frank || || -Original Message- || Patrice J || Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 9:45 AM || To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L || || || Well, || || This is on topic - www.wired.com http://www.wired.com today has an || article re. IBM announced that it is buying Informix for $1Billion. || || Ah, if only I had that kind of money myself - I could take || more Oracle || courses! || || I don't know what will happen with Informix then, does that || mean they will || gobble it up and DB2 will be the only option in a couple of years? || || Regards, || Patrice Boivin || Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) || || Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes || Technology Services| Services technologiques || Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique || Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO || || E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] || || || -Original Message- || From: Dennis Taylor [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] || Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 12:57 PM || To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L || Subject:Oracle vs DB2 || || Disclaimer: I am *not* trying to start a religious war, and I am || *not* || trying to advocate DB2. I am simply offended. Thus this post. || || As some may remember, I'm doing an evaluation of Oracle || vs DB2 vs || SQLServer || to determine our future direction. Here's a datum that makes a || significant || difference to us, dollar-wise. || || With Oracle, in order to make a database accessible to || the internet || through || a web page, you have to buy an unlimited-user || enterprise license. We || had a || senior sales person in our office yesterday, and we asked this || question a || number of different ways. He bobbed and he weaved, but || he did not || deny it. || And the quote he supplied afterwards does not address || the issue at || all. || || Cost of unlimited-user Enterprise version for our || installation (your || mileage may vary) = Approx $160,000 Cdn. || || IBM, for the same purpose, will sell you DB2 UDB || Workgroup edition || (1 || user), and something called WE Internet Access, for a || total price of || $6000 || Cdn. I have a written quote from an IBM salescritter to || this effect. || || $6000. $160,000. $6000. $160,000. Hm. Let me think. || || I respectfully submit that Oracle's pricing structure || is out of line || with || market realities, and may have to undergo significant revision. || || || || Dennis Taylor || || Don't be fooled by old cliches - He who laughs last may have || just figured out the joke. || || -- || Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com || -- || Author: Dennis Taylor ||INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] || || Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: || (858) 538-5051 || San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing || Lists || || || To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an || E-Mail message || to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of || 'ListGuru') and in || the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L || (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed || from). You may || also send the HELP command for other information (like || subscribing). || -- || Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com || -- || Author: Boivin, Patrice J || INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] || || Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 || San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / || Mailing Lists || || To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message || to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in || the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L || (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may || also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). || || -- || Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com || -- || Author: Frank N. Pettinato || INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] || || Fat City Network Services
RE: Oracle vs DB2
This sorta reminds me of the answer I got when I asked why Oracle thought that they deserved all the extra money they were going to get from increasing annual support costs during the Oracle6 - Oracle7 days (aprx. 50% increase each year for at least a couple of years). Oracle said that someone has to pay for all the extra development costs for Oracle7. I suggested that besides the Oracle6 customers (some of whom weren't even using Oracle7 yet), perhaps the *investors* would also be a good source for such funding. (duh?) They didn't know about that! :) ep On 25 Apr 2001, at 6:49, (Frank N. Pettinato [EMAIL PROTECTED]) scribbled with alacrity and cogency: Date sent: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 06:49:43 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California You are absolutely correct. Oracle's getting this price because they can. I wonder how much market share they will lose before Larry switches things around? When I asked my salescritter about this he said Well we sure are selling alot of licenses - Go figure... ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle vs DB2 - Oracle lost on cost
The client I work for (for the next 2 weeks at least) just made the decision to use UDB over Oracle due to the price of licenses from Oracle. And this is a startup with a big ol' pile of capital. Go figure, I thought startup's always picked the most expensive stuff. They must be saving on the DB for the skating rink. - Brian --- Henry Poras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess they can make their money by targeting the high end and having a few high paying customers, or be more reasonable and have a broader base. I get the feeling that Larry's ego (psychoanalysis from a distance, ain't it wonderful) would drive him to both the $ and the broad base. If you are competing against Bill Gates, you not only need the money, but also the exposure. Everyone knows Windows, you can't have just the elite knowing about Oracle. So where does that put us in 6 months? Henry __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Brian Wisniewski INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Oracle vs DB2
I agree, MySQL is a good way to start out. That's what we did here. It's fast and free. Our product runs with MySQL, SQL Server, and Oracle. The MySQL version allows us to sell to companies that want to use our product but could never afford an Oracle license. But, when it comes to larger companies (such as Toyota, Motorola, Swissair, etc.) that generate a lot of customer traffic with our product MySQL just doesn't scale well. Data corruption is a constant problem, and that's where Oracle comes in. It's stable, reliable, and the large companies that need the reliability can actually afford the licensing. :) We also use Postgres here for some internal applications and it works very well. --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:50 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L true, but when cost is the decisive factor w/ a startup, go with the one of the freebies. if the company was too cheap to buy the right product, time to find a company w/ deeper pockets. now w/ ibm buying informix, merging w/ db2, they will have a new product called db4mix :). the free db's are fun to play with but their skills don't pay the bills. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/25/01 08:36AM So isn't PostGres, but neither is a close competitor. Reply Separator Author: Gene Sais [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 4/24/2001 1:28 PM hmmm, mysql is free, best price of all. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle vs DB2
Well, This is on topic - www.wired.com http://www.wired.com today has an article re. IBM announced that it is buying Informix for $1Billion. Ah, if only I had that kind of money myself - I could take more Oracle courses! I don't know what will happen with Informix then, does that mean they will gobble it up and DB2 will be the only option in a couple of years? Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Dennis Taylor [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 12:57 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Oracle vs DB2 Disclaimer: I am *not* trying to start a religious war, and I am *not* trying to advocate DB2. I am simply offended. Thus this post. As some may remember, I'm doing an evaluation of Oracle vs DB2 vs SQLServer to determine our future direction. Here's a datum that makes a significant difference to us, dollar-wise. With Oracle, in order to make a database accessible to the internet through a web page, you have to buy an unlimited-user enterprise license. We had a senior sales person in our office yesterday, and we asked this question a number of different ways. He bobbed and he weaved, but he did not deny it. And the quote he supplied afterwards does not address the issue at all. Cost of unlimited-user Enterprise version for our installation (your mileage may vary) = Approx $160,000 Cdn. IBM, for the same purpose, will sell you DB2 UDB Workgroup edition (1 user), and something called WE Internet Access, for a total price of $6000 Cdn. I have a written quote from an IBM salescritter to this effect. $6000. $160,000. $6000. $160,000. Hm. Let me think. I respectfully submit that Oracle's pricing structure is out of line with market realities, and may have to undergo significant revision. Dennis Taylor Don't be fooled by old cliches - He who laughs last may have just figured out the joke. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle vs DB2
Why the enterprise license for Oracle? Dennis Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]@fatcity.com on 04/24/2001 10:57:11 AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Disclaimer: I am *not* trying to start a religious war, and I am *not* trying to advocate DB2. I am simply offended. Thus this post. As some may remember, I'm doing an evaluation of Oracle vs DB2 vs SQLServer to determine our future direction. Here's a datum that makes a significant difference to us, dollar-wise. With Oracle, in order to make a database accessible to the internet through a web page, you have to buy an unlimited-user enterprise license. We had a senior sales person in our office yesterday, and we asked this question a number of different ways. He bobbed and he weaved, but he did not deny it. And the quote he supplied afterwards does not address the issue at all. Cost of unlimited-user Enterprise version for our installation (your mileage may vary) = Approx $160,000 Cdn. IBM, for the same purpose, will sell you DB2 UDB Workgroup edition (1 user), and something called WE Internet Access, for a total price of $6000 Cdn. I have a written quote from an IBM salescritter to this effect. $6000. $160,000. $6000. $160,000. Hm. Let me think. I respectfully submit that Oracle's pricing structure is out of line with market realities, and may have to undergo significant revision. Dennis Taylor Don't be fooled by old cliches - He who laughs last may have just figured out the joke. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle vs DB2
Boivin, Not true, when Oracle purchased Rdb from Digital 10 years ago. This was the talk, Rdb will die in 7 years. Today it is being enhanced every version/release. SO DON'T KNOW, what IBM will do. Murali Vallath Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:45:27 -0800 Well, This is on topic - www.wired.com http://www.wired.com today has an article re. IBM announced that it is buying Informix for $1Billion. Ah, if only I had that kind of money myself - I could take more Oracle courses! I don't know what will happen with Informix then, does that mean they will gobble it up and DB2 will be the only option in a couple of years? Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Dennis Taylor [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 12:57 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Oracle vs DB2 Disclaimer: I am *not* trying to start a religious war, and I am *not* trying to advocate DB2. I am simply offended. Thus this post. As some may remember, I'm doing an evaluation of Oracle vs DB2 vs SQLServer to determine our future direction. Here's a datum that makes a significant difference to us, dollar-wise. With Oracle, in order to make a database accessible to the internet through a web page, you have to buy an unlimited-user enterprise license. We had a senior sales person in our office yesterday, and we asked this question a number of different ways. He bobbed and he weaved, but he did not deny it. And the quote he supplied afterwards does not address the issue at all. Cost of unlimited-user Enterprise version for our installation (your mileage may vary) = Approx $160,000 Cdn. IBM, for the same purpose, will sell you DB2 UDB Workgroup edition (1 user), and something called WE Internet Access, for a total price of $6000 Cdn. I have a written quote from an IBM salescritter to this effect. $6000. $160,000. $6000. $160,000. Hm. Let me think. I respectfully submit that Oracle's pricing structure is out of line with market realities, and may have to undergo significant revision. Dennis Taylor Don't be fooled by old cliches - He who laughs last may have just figured out the joke. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Murali Vallath INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information
RE: Oracle vs DB2
Not true. You can use the Standard Edition for serving web pages. We're doing it. Costs much less than $160,000, although still more than $6,000 Cdn. One thing I don't get: it's $6,000 Cdn for a 1-user license, right? How is a 1-user license going to do you any good if you're serving web pages? Just interested in how the WE Internet Access works. We had some IBM guys in here late last year, and they couldn't give us any better pricing than what we could get Oracle Standard Edition for. --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana Dennis Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]@fatcity.com on 04/24/2001 10:57:11 AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: With Oracle, in order to make a database accessible to the internet through a web page, you have to buy an unlimited-user enterprise license. We had a senior sales person in our office yesterday, and we asked this question a number of different ways. He bobbed and he weaved, but he did not deny it. And the quote he supplied afterwards does not address the issue at all. Cost of unlimited-user Enterprise version for our installation (your mileage may vary) = Approx $160,000 Cdn. IBM, for the same purpose, will sell you DB2 UDB Workgroup edition (1 user), and something called WE Internet Access, for a total price of $6000 Cdn. I have a written quote from an IBM salescritter to this effect. $6000. $160,000. $6000. $160,000. Hm. Let me think. I respectfully submit that Oracle's pricing structure is out of line with market realities, and may have to undergo significant revision. Dennis Taylor Don't be fooled by old cliches - He who laughs last may have just figured out the joke. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle vs DB2
Now we know how Oracle saved a billion $$ ?? Raj __ Rajendra Jamadagni MIS, ESPN Inc. Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc. QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art ! -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 11:57 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [snip] $6000. $160,000. $6000. $160,000. Hm. Let me think. I respectfully submit that Oracle's pricing structure is out of line with market realities, and may have to undergo significant revision. [snip] * This e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify ESPN at (860) 766-2000 and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank you. * -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jamadagni, Rajendra INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle vs DB2
FYI, the Oracle Marketing spiel... Price Does Not Equal Cost Databases store, protect, manage and provide access to a company's most important business asset * information. There is no other product that a company will buy that has a greater effect on information systems. Selecting the wrong database product can compromise business growth and profitability. It would make sense to select a database product based on price alone if database products were the predominant part of the overall information technology expenditures. But this is simply not the case. Software costs (including upgrades and technical support) typically represent less than 15% of an IT budget and are small compared to the overall costs of hardware, operations and maintenance, consulting and training. IBM DB2's Hidden Costs IBM never talks about the hidden costs of running an application on DB2: DB2 needs a more expensive hardware infrastructure to deliver the same level of service as Oracle. Oracle database is faster and more efficient than IBM DB2 on the same hardware configuration. Oracle database supports more users and handles a greater workload with a smaller and less expensive hardware configuration. The real proof is IBM using Oracle database, not DB2, to benchmark its Unix hardware platforms. Oracle offers a more complete solution for high availability than IBM. DB2 lacks high availability features and makes IBM rely on hardware to deliver high availability. As a result, DB2 requires a more expensive hardware configuration to deliver the same level of availability as Oracle. According to an IBM-sponsored study by the Standish Group, even modest increases in availability can amount to millions of dollars saved each year. You can depend on Oracle to keep your business running and keep your IT budget under control. Oracle has far superior security features compared to DB2. Oracle has 13 security certifications from independent and internationally recognized organizations, IBM has none. Delivering a 100% secure solution with DB2 means additional software and consulting costs. IT Managers should be aware that security breaches amount to billions of dollars in losses every year for businesses around the world. DB2 lacks the advanced and automated system resource management capabilities than Oracle can deliver. Using DB2 means higher on-going maintenance costs. Choosing DB2 as a strategic database provider locks IT organizations into IBM's world: DB2's lack of third-party applications means more expensive development costs or inability to handle critical business processes. More than 17,000 applications from independent software vendors run on Oracle providing a pool of solutions unequaled by IBM. DB2 has limited functionality and is not optimized on non-IBM platforms such as HP or Sun which are IBM' s fierce competitors in the hardware market. As a result, DB2 locks you into IBM hardware at higher cost and risk of low performance. DB2 is not DB2 is not DB2. DB2's code base is different on Unix and NT than on AS/400 and the mainframe. This platform incompatibility leads to higher costs. While IBM claims 90% compatibility, the last 10% can mean a lot of wasted time for developers. Most applications are prototyped on NT first, then extended to the platform they will be deployed on. With IBM, developers know they will have to rewrite part of their code. There are more trained DBAs for Oracle than for DB2, making it easier to deploy and manage application running on Oracle database. Oracle has nurtured a 1.4 million strong developer community which is now is a deep pool of talent that IBM cannot offer. Gartner summarizes it all in a review of DB2: While IBM's per-processor pricing model makes DB2 especially attractive to the midrange and high-end markets, users should carefully weigh their anticipated total cost of ownership factoring in the difficulty of finding experienced DB2 developers and administrators. IBM's solutions are far less integrated than Oracle's and require additional time and resources before they can go live. Let's take security as an example. Oracle Advanced Security and Oracle database are fully integrated. These two products are developed by the same teams. To get access to security that are functionally comparable to Oracle, IBM's customers need to acquire IBM Secureway, which comes from a totally different product line. Quality Equals Economy Because a database is such a key technology, quality matters more than just software price. Who wants to run a general ledger application on an infrastructure that cannot handle peak loads? Who wants to run a global e-commerce or customer support application on a system that must go offline every week for maintenance? Who wants to run an HR system on a database that compromises on data integrity? An application running on Oracle costs less to operate than an application running on DB2 simply
Re: Oracle vs DB2
Maybe I am wrong here but.. My understanding is that you can use standard or enterprise for any appication you wish. If your application communicates with the Web/internet, you have to license the product based on UPU's; they will not accept a named user license. ??? Dennis Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]@fatcity.com on 04/24/2001 01:22:56 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: At 09:31 AM 4/24/01 -0800, you wrote: Why the enterprise license for Oracle? Because that's what they require. Dennis Taylor Don't be fooled by old cliches - He who laughs last may have just figured out the joke. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle vs DB2
At 10:46 AM 4/24/01 -0800, you wrote: Not true. You can use the Standard Edition for serving web pages. We're doing it. Yep. I've corrected myself on that in another email. One thing I don't get: it's $6,000 Cdn for a 1-user license, right? How is a 1-user license going to do you any good if you're serving web pages? Just interested in how the WE Internet Access works. The 1-user license + WE = a legal DB2 web-database. This according to the IBM salescritter. Got it on paper, too. :-) We had some IBM guys in here late last year, and they couldn't give us any better pricing than what we could get Oracle Standard Edition for. Times change. My salescritter is saying that in some cases, IBM is *giving* DB2 away, if there's enough ancilliary business (hardware, consulting, etc). I guess I should add a disclaimer to my rant at this point. We are a small shop. I mean *SMALL* shop. 30 people in the company. 30K for a web database may be peanuts for a fortune 500 company, but for us, it's significant. YMMV. Dennis Taylor Beware of false economies. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle vs DB2
I received a version of this from the salescritter as well, and went through it with a fine-toothed comb. Some of the statements are simply false. Some are value judgements expressed as imperative statements, with no backup. Some may be true, but again, I'd like to see support for the statement. At 10:46 AM 4/24/01 -0800, you wrote: FYI, the Oracle Marketing spiel... Price Does Not Equal Cost Databases store, protect, manage and provide access to a company's most important business asset * information. There is no other product that a company will buy that has a greater effect on information systems. Selecting the wrong database product can compromise business growth and profitability. It would make sense to select a database product based on price alone if database products were the predominant part of the overall information technology expenditures. But this is simply not the case. Software costs (including upgrades and technical support) typically represent less than 15% of an IT budget and are small compared to the overall costs of hardware, operations and maintenance, consulting and training. IBM DB2's Hidden Costs IBM never talks about the hidden costs of running an application on DB2: DB2 needs a more expensive hardware infrastructure to deliver the same level of service as Oracle. Oracle database is faster and more efficient than IBM DB2 on the same hardware configuration. Oracle database supports more users and handles a greater workload with a smaller and less expensive hardware configuration. The real proof is IBM using Oracle database, not DB2, to benchmark its Unix hardware platforms. Oracle offers a more complete solution for high availability than IBM. DB2 lacks high availability features and makes IBM rely on hardware to deliver high availability. As a result, DB2 requires a more expensive hardware configuration to deliver the same level of availability as Oracle. According to an IBM-sponsored study by the Standish Group, even modest increases in availability can amount to millions of dollars saved each year. You can depend on Oracle to keep your business running and keep your IT budget under control. Oracle has far superior security features compared to DB2. Oracle has 13 security certifications from independent and internationally recognized organizations, IBM has none. Delivering a 100% secure solution with DB2 means additional software and consulting costs. IT Managers should be aware that security breaches amount to billions of dollars in losses every year for businesses around the world. DB2 lacks the advanced and automated system resource management capabilities than Oracle can deliver. Using DB2 means higher on-going maintenance costs. Choosing DB2 as a strategic database provider locks IT organizations into IBM's world: DB2's lack of third-party applications means more expensive development costs or inability to handle critical business processes. More than 17,000 applications from independent software vendors run on Oracle providing a pool of solutions unequaled by IBM. DB2 has limited functionality and is not optimized on non-IBM platforms such as HP or Sun which are IBM' s fierce competitors in the hardware market. As a result, DB2 locks you into IBM hardware at higher cost and risk of low performance. DB2 is not DB2 is not DB2. DB2's code base is different on Unix and NT than on AS/400 and the mainframe. This platform incompatibility leads to higher costs. While IBM claims 90% compatibility, the last 10% can mean a lot of wasted time for developers. Most applications are prototyped on NT first, then extended to the platform they will be deployed on. With IBM, developers know they will have to rewrite part of their code. There are more trained DBAs for Oracle than for DB2, making it easier to deploy and manage application running on Oracle database. Oracle has nurtured a 1.4 million strong developer community which is now is a deep pool of talent that IBM cannot offer. Gartner summarizes it all in a review of DB2: While IBM's per-processor pricing model makes DB2 especially attractive to the midrange and high-end markets, users should carefully weigh their anticipated total cost of ownership factoring in the difficulty of finding experienced DB2 developers and administrators. IBM's solutions are far less integrated than Oracle's and require additional time and resources before they can go live. Let's take security as an example. Oracle Advanced Security and Oracle database are fully integrated. These two products are developed by the same teams. To get access to security that are functionally comparable to Oracle, IBM's customers need to acquire IBM Secureway, which comes from a totally different product line. Quality Equals Economy Because a database is such a key technology, quality matters more than just software price. Who wants to run a general ledger application on an infrastructure that cannot handle peak loads? Who wants to run a
RE: Oracle vs DB2
That's absolutely not true, Dennis. We've purchased Oracle Standard Edition for serving web pages, and no one at Oracle told us we could not. I think you need to find some other salescritters. You're being taken for a ride. --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 1:46 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L At 01:13 PM 4/24/01 -0400, you wrote: But, I believe your comparing apples to oranges. DB2 UDB Workgroup is not the equal of Oracle Enterprise. If you want to compare apples apples, try Yes, but in order to put an Oracle database on the web, I HAVE TO USE ENTERPRISE EDITION! The salescritters say so. It has to be unlimited users. To repeat: I cannot (legally) put an Oracle database on an internet-accessible web page unless it is an unlimited-user (power-units-based) Enterprise edition version of Oracle. Let me put it another way: I HAVE TO USE ENTERPRISE EDITION! Now, it may be that every salescritter I've talked to is wrong about that, but if so, what can I do? Reach through the phone, grab them by the throat, and demand answers? (Not to say I don't *want* to) I'm not actually comparing apples to oranges if you look at it from my POV: I'm comparing the lowest cost to do what I want using Oracle, to the lowest cost to do what I want using DB2. If Oracle demands that I use Enterprise Edition with unlimited users, then that's their price. Dennis Taylor Beware of false economies. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle vs DB2
Dennis, The IBM Sales Critter hit the nail on the head by saying: that in some cases, IBM is *giving* DB2 away, if there's enough ancillary business (hardware, consulting, etc). It's that ancillary business you better watch out for!! IBM is using DB2 as their Loss-Leader. Ed Haskins Oracle DBA Verizon Wireless -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 4:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L At 10:46 AM 4/24/01 -0800, you wrote: Not true. You can use the Standard Edition for serving web pages. We're doing it. Yep. I've corrected myself on that in another email. One thing I don't get: it's $6,000 Cdn for a 1-user license, right? How is a 1-user license going to do you any good if you're serving web pages? Just interested in how the WE Internet Access works. The 1-user license + WE = a legal DB2 web-database. This according to the IBM salescritter. Got it on paper, too. :-) We had some IBM guys in here late last year, and they couldn't give us any better pricing than what we could get Oracle Standard Edition for. Times change. My salescritter is saying that in some cases, IBM is *giving* DB2 away, if there's enough ancilliary business (hardware, consulting, etc). I guess I should add a disclaimer to my rant at this point. We are a small shop. I mean *SMALL* shop. 30 people in the company. 30K for a web database may be peanuts for a fortune 500 company, but for us, it's significant. YMMV. Dennis Taylor Beware of false economies. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle vs DB2
I just bought 3 STANDARD UPC server licenses for our site. We saved 275K by not using Enterprise. Email me if you want the details. Walt is right, they are lying to you. (The concept of trusting salespersons for technical issues is inherently wrong.) HTH, Todd Carlson Oracle 8i Certified DBA Bunge Corporation Weaver, WaltTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L wweaver@righ[EMAIL PROTECTED] tnow.comcc: Sent by: Subject: RE: Oracle vs DB2 root@fatcity. com 04/24/2001 03:16 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L That's absolutely not true, Dennis. We've purchased Oracle Standard Edition for serving web pages, and no one at Oracle told us we could not. I think you need to find some other salescritters. You're being taken for a ride. --Walt Weaver Bozeman, Montana, USA -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 1:46 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L At 01:13 PM 4/24/01 -0400, you wrote: But, I believe your comparing apples to oranges. DB2 UDB Workgroup is not the equal of Oracle Enterprise. If you want to compare apples apples, try Yes, but in order to put an Oracle database on the web, I HAVE TO USE ENTERPRISE EDITION! The salescritters say so. It has to be unlimited users. To repeat: I cannot (legally) put an Oracle database on an internet-accessible web page unless it is an unlimited-user (power-units-based) Enterprise edition version of Oracle. Let me put it another way: I HAVE TO USE ENTERPRISE EDITION! Now, it may be that every salescritter I've talked to is wrong about that, but if so, what can I do? Reach through the phone, grab them by the throat, and demand answers? (Not to say I don't *want* to) I'm not actually comparing apples to oranges if you look at it from my POV: I'm comparing the lowest cost to do what I want using Oracle, to the lowest cost to do what I want using DB2. If Oracle demands that I use Enterprise Edition with unlimited users, then that's their price. Dennis Taylor Beware of false economies. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California
RE: Oracle vs DB2
hmmm, mysql is free, best price of all. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/24/01 04:27PM At 10:46 AM 4/24/01 -0800, you wrote: Not true. You can use the Standard Edition for serving web pages. We're doing it. Yep. I've corrected myself on that in another email. One thing I don't get: it's $6,000 Cdn for a 1-user license, right? How is a 1-user license going to do you any good if you're serving web pages? Just interested in how the WE Internet Access works. The 1-user license + WE = a legal DB2 web-database. This according to the IBM salescritter. Got it on paper, too. :-) We had some IBM guys in here late last year, and they couldn't give us any better pricing than what we could get Oracle Standard Edition for. Times change. My salescritter is saying that in some cases, IBM is *giving* DB2 away, if there's enough ancilliary business (hardware, consulting, etc). I guess I should add a disclaimer to my rant at this point. We are a small shop. I mean *SMALL* shop. 30 people in the company. 30K for a web database may be peanuts for a fortune 500 company, but for us, it's significant. YMMV. Dennis Taylor Beware of false economies. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gene Sais INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle vs DB2
trying again... From: Eric D. Pierce [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:56:08 -0700 Subject: RE: Oracle vs DB2 Reportedly what IBM did here some years ago, was sell a mainframe hardware package (for a COBOL/VSAM package) within the University system's budget constraints. Turned out that to actually run the application, several millions of $ of additional goodies were needed. But, they got the original bid. Dealing with IBM mainframe sales critters (apparently recruited directly from some boot camp for counter terrorism?) was not exactly the same as dealing with DEC sales critters. On 24 Apr 2001, at 13:00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's that ancillary business you better watch out for!! IBM is using DB2 as their Loss-Leader. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
