Re: [OGD] Kovachii...
Please clear up a few things for me and the OGD audience: 1) Where in my post do I try to slime the opposition? Please explain!. 2) Who is it you went to that says to know the true story, different from mine, of what went on in Peru? 3) What is the true story Barbara? You seem to insinuate that you know it, but that I do not. 4) I challenge you to point out which Pk saga facts I do not have straight. Barbara, you have said A by publicly and falsely accusing me, I expect you have the guts to say B. In my experience with Pk seedlings and the experience of my Peruvian friends, the 12 inch leaf span Pk seedling you have seen is more likely to have come from an illegal flasks propagated in 2001-2002 than from legal Pk flask started in 2003. Many illegal Pk plant owners are known to have purchased one legal flask to hide their illegal ones behind. These include very well known orchid nurseries world wide. I will not flame you because you falsely accuse me on a public forum. All I ask is that you back up your accusations with facts. Peter Peter, Peter you still don't get it. You and your rumors... and likely this and that. That is what I am objecting to. Your insinuations are slimey and unfounded. The 12-inch leafspan seedling I referred to is sitting on Chuck Acker's bench. Want to see a picture? Here it is: http://phragflasks.com/images/image_pages/kovachii%20front%20runner.htm It came out of a flask he hand carried back here in 2005, the First flasks to come to the US legally. I think what you have is a case of sour grapes. You can't get them to grow any faster and you can't believe that anyone else can either. Well, Chuck is THE PHRAGMASTER and I would expect nothing less than healthy, thriving plants from him, and that is what I laid eyes on. The problem people are having with Pk flasks and seedlings relates to improperly grown flasks (too warm, maybe incorrect medium?), and the flasks being sold when the plants are too immature to be able to survive, much less thrive. I know of several people who have purchased flasks with plants of 1/2 leafspan that have died or which are suffering. THAT is not what I call conservation or preservation. People are in such a hurry to make a buck, and other people are shelling out good money, rare plants are dying and someone is laughing all the way to the bank. Wouldn't you rather get a healthy plant or compot that is actually ready to be sold? There... flame that! Barbara ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] PCR-based virus testing
Do you think there is any money in virus testing, using modern PCR techniques? I do lots of PCR in my job (mouse tissue, not plant, but PCR is PCR), and have an extensive collection of orchids. I've wondered how many of my plants are virused, but don't have the money to test them. If I thought there was a reasonable market for PCR-based virus testing, I think it would be fun to set up a part of my lab for the purpose (and work something out with the University on profit sharing). If there were somegrant money available somewhere to get things started, that would make it more likely to happen. Any thoughts out there? Jim Marchand Ashland, MA, growing cattleyas, laelias, paphs,phrags and phals. " Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 16:04:48 +From: "K Barrett" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [OGD] Viruses againTo: orchids@orchidguide.comMessage-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"Thanks to Terry Glancy and Robert Bedard for their information in the last digest. Its nice to know how virulent these viruses are. I'm glad someone is going forward with PCR protocols in virus testing. I imagine the stumbling block to expanding this to other viruses is getting the infrastructure in place. I'm always the entrepreneur, and wonder if this could become a cottage industry for retired science hobbyists, or forward thinking grad students. Heck, better yet, an underpaid tech with delusions of grandeur. *G*. (Nah, its probably prohibited in Genetech's employment contracts) Maybe there'd be some grant money out there for research into identification isolation of other plant viruses. Anybody know J Craig Ventner personally? Maybe he'd take time away from his current project to elucidate the DNA sequences for all 40 plant viruses. http://www.sorcerer2expedition.org/version1/HTML/main.htm"I got vision and the rest of the world's wearing bifocals"Butch Cassidy BarrettN Calif, USA" ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] orchid in a cemetery / Rochester, Iowa [US]
Rochester Cemetery... The 13.5-acre Rochester site is... defined as a sand prairie/savanna scattered trees and groves of trees in addition to prairie plants... 360 plant species, figuring out to about 25 per acre... That is a greater number than has been recorded at any other prairie site that has been documented in Iowa. [Diana Horton... associate professor of biology at the University of Iowa] an orchid called the slender ladies' tresses [slender ladies' tresses] that is listed as threatened on the state's list of endangered and threatened species. Rochester Cemetery is... a remnant of natural habitat, she [Diana Horton] added. Article URL : http://www.qctimes.com/articles/2006/09/02/news/local/doc44f914a28689e120212878.txt * Regards, VB ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Re Barbara's Kovachi
Barbara, As expected, you have failed to substantiate any of the rumours you are spreading about me on the OGD. It is better than any apology you could have come up with. Requesting it repeatedly, you seem obsessed with wanting to be flamed. Perhaps this is a common problem with genies that escape from Aladdin's lamp? Perhaps an attempt to get you out of the Pk saga darkness you live in? Sorry I can't grant yourflaming wish, that privilege belongs to your Master. You have a knack of assigning labels to the wrong people.Sour grapes is more likely the state of mindseveral Pk seedling "Masters" find themselves in, when they see legal Pk being sold all around them andTHEY must wait an additional year before they can sell theirs. That a tiny Pk seedling,slightly bigger than an oil drop in your lamp, can be grown in 16 months to have a leaf span of 12 inches is indeed amazing.I'd sayit is a miracle! Just remember , if you wish to stay out of the lamp you must get your Master to grant you two more wishes. Allow me to help you. Wish 2, that what comes out of your Master's purchased legal bottles are indeed Pk. Wish 3,that a picture of a non-flowering seedling identifies it as to which genus and species it is. peter ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Epipactis helleborine
To echoe Eric's comments - I have found Epipactis here in New Jersey state parks and forests, but never in an undisturbed area. They always seem to be around the edges of the parking areas and road cuts. First orchid you'll see when you go out hiking! However, young plants annoyingly resemble Cypripedium pubescens, which is no longer extant here, until they are examined more closely and false excitement is put to rest. Bonaventure Magrys in windy Cliffwood Beach, NJ Thank you Ernesto for unpotting my orchids --Message: 2Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 22:24:30 -0400From: "e.muehlbauer" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [OGD] Epipactis helleborineTo: orchids@orchidguide.comMessage-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"E. helleborine is definitely wide spread, and while it may be technicallyinvasive, I cannot see how it would pose much of a problem here in theNortheast. I see it everywhere in Cutchogue , LI, and I have even seen itgrowing within 2 blocks of my house here in Queens. However, there is a bigdifference between the behavior I have seen with helleborine and thebehavior of most invasive species: it does not crowd out other species.Wherever it is found, it is growing with other species of plants, and isevenly distributed among them. Of greater importance: It never seems to growin the same exact location for more than 2 seasons. It appears in oneplace...the next year it will be 10 feet further, but not a trace of itremains in the previous location. In that sense, I can't see it as beingtruly "invasive". But please understand: this is based only on myobservations in Eastern Long Island and NYC. It may very well behavedifferently in other regions...and I can see how it may create seriousproblems in the Pacific northwest, where it could conceivably interbreedwith gigantea or palustris.Take care, Eric Muehlbauer in wet and cooldQueens NY...where despite 2 heat waves, the paphs have never donebetter..loads in bud ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] viruses again
Keith, I have performed and developed ELISAs in my line of work as a Research Assistant in Molecular Biology and Immunology. Each assay, done in panels, requires a row, or serial dilution, of standards to be performed with it. The dilutions should then match up with results in a stepwise fashion when plotted on a graph (standard curve). Test sample results are then plotted along that line to give the amount of agent being searched for present. Getting lazy and using one standard curve for several tests (on different assay plates) assures that plate to plate variation will give inaccurate results, especially if done on different days with different reagent stocks used.Ways in which samples are prepared for assays can also obscure results and all samples should be done in at least duplicate, preferably triplicate or quadruplicate to help screen out false positives, but this is not assured. Bonaventure --Message: 4Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:56:50 +From: "K Barrett" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [OGD] viruses againTo: orchids@orchidguide.comMessage-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"Thanks for doing that Cynthia. Open question: Does anyone have any other experience with the ELISA test (even in another line of work) so we can judge as to how correct it is? Like the rates of false negatives/false positives? K BarrettN Calif, USA ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] kovachii
Hello to everyone on the forum, I have been growing kovachii since April of 05 and I have a number of plants in the 8 to 9 inch range and 5-7 inch range as well as a number of smaller ones. The cross that seems most vigorous to me is the 'Jewel' x 'Roseline' sib. Other sibs are slower and fewer in number. The hybrids I have between schlimii, longifolium, walisii and de alesandroi (besseae) all seem to grow well with good vigor. The wallisii hybrid has broad strong leaves. I have imported kovachii twice. Once in 05 and once in May of this year. Happy growing, Jerry Lee Fischer Orchids Limited www.orchidweb.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Orchids Digest, Vol 8, Issue 299
Peter. You amaze me. Where are the rumors I am spreading about you?? It is not I that is spreading rumors but your own kindly self. I am merely pointing them out to you and you go and get all offended. You think I haven't seen the flasks that are coming out of Alfredo's lab? I know what they are like and so do lots of other people. I think it is a matter of customer service (oh, don't get me started on that one... there isn't much of that anymore...). I think that the current sellers of immature and poorly grown Pk flasks ought to be ashamed of themselves. Here you have a brand new species that nobody really knows how to grow yet, and here they go and ship off seedlings that have little hope of survival. Can you refute that? They have done a disservice to the public they have bilked out of God knows how much money. You mention sour grapes? The other guys (with flasks from PeruFlora) that can't sell them for another year...(oh, make it 8 months) I don't think they see it that way. They are taking their time, learning how to grow these things (and doing so splendidly) and getting them to a safe size for sale. In the end they will have a whole lot more satisfied customers who are growing stronger and healthier plants which were given a better start in life. In the end, they will have preserved far more Pk for posterity. Hey, you out there, what do you think of this idea? Any more of you willing to shell out more money for puny things you have no idea how to grow? Which would you prefer: that or plants (with culture instructions) that are healthy and well established from someone that has proven he knows what he is doing? Yup, me too. It's a no-brainer. Now mind you, I am not advertising for anyone. I am merely pointing out what I think is already painfully (and financially) obvious to many of you. That a tiny Pk seedling, slightly bigger than an oil drop in your lamp, can be grown in 16 months to have a leaf span of 12 inches is indeed amazing. I'd say it is a miracle! Now that has got to really bug you. I don't blame you at all. But you've got to see for yourself. The Master is amazing! Yeah, I know all the rumors about the flasks might not be Pk... baloney! More hogwash put out by people with something to sell. NOt to fear... those rumors will be put to rest and not in the too distant future. Sheesh. Peter, there are people out there that might know more about this than you. That is not a rumor. Neither is anything else I have said. So, no apology for you. Oh, and BTW, I love the genie analogy. Thanks. You really put a smile on my face. I'll have to ask the Master if he will grant me three wishes. Oh, wait... Hey, I'm the Genie... I get to grant wishes, too! Cool! Wishing a warm and sunny Labor Day to all you hard-working people out there. Barbara From: Peter Croezen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OGD] Re Barbara's Kovachi Barbara, As expected, you have failed to substantiate any of the rumours you are spreading about me on the OGD. It is better than any apology you could have come up with. Requesting it repeatedly, you seem obsessed with wanting to be flamed. Perhaps this is a common problem with genies that escape from Aladdin's lamp? Perhaps an attempt to get you out of the Pk saga darkness you live in? Sorry I can't grant your flaming wish, that privilege belongs to your Master. You have a knack of assigning labels to the wrong people.Sour grapes is more likely the state of mind several Pk seedling Masters find themselves in, when they see legal Pk being sold all around them and THEY must wait an additional year before they can sell theirs. That a tiny Pk seedling, slightly bigger than an oil drop in your lamp, can be grown in 16 months to have a leaf span of 12 inches is indeed amazing. I'd say it is a miracle! Just remember , if you wish to stay out of the lamp you must get your Master to grant you two more wishes. Allow me to help you. Wish 2, that what comes out of your Master's purchased legal bottles are indeed Pk. Wish 3, that a picture of a non-flowering seedling identifies it as to which genus and species it is. peter ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
