[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Stein, Robert via Organizers]

We have been dancing in Lansing MI since March 2022.  We have so far required 
vax+booster and masks (now only in the dance hall).  There was one case and 
possibly a second of Covid being caught at a dance since then.

smime.p7s
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[David Macemon via Organizers]

PCDC (Portland (Oregon) Country Dance Society)

Our weekly dances and our English Ball require Vax+booster and "well fitted
masks".  Performers may choose to be unmasked while on stage
We've been dancing since April 2022, we've had a small handful of
reports of positive tests, but, no additional reports from the events

NW Passage ( Dance weekend, most dancers stay on-site), required Vax+
booster and "well fitted masks" and a negative rapid test when folks
arrived at camp. Performers could choose to be unmasked while on stage
- There were no reports of positive tests after camp.

David


-- 
David Macemon
503-432-9700

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacemon/
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Koren A. Wake via Organizers]

Add Seattle WA to the list -- two weekly dances now, on Thursdays and
Fridays. Both series have vax+booster required, bivalent booster strongly
recommended, as well as asking all attendees to sign an agreement to let
the organizers know if you test positive within a week after attending the
dance. Dancers are required to mask; callers & musicians can choose to mask
or not while on stage and I don't believe there's a testing requirement at
either dance (I've called at both, but preferred to keep my mask on anyway,
so I didn't ask). Both dances have had some isolated positive reports over
time, as you would expect from regular non-dance exposure, but there have
been no clusters that would suggest spread is likely to have occurred at
the dance.

The dance tonight in Seattle has been canceled because a performer is ill
-- they were originally scheduled for last week, caught Covid and swapped
to this week, but then had a rebound and decided canceling entirely was a
better plan. Fortunately there was plenty of notice, and because of the
contact tracing policies the organizer has everyone's email addresses to
let them know of the cancellation! Also fortunately, it's a mild case and
they expect to make a full recovery.

Koren

On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 8:39 AM Darlene Hamilton via Organizers <
organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> You can add The HistoricalTea and Dance Society to the
> “ Dances with vax+mask policy I know offhand with no reported spreads.”
>
> We’ve been going strong for over a year and a half (minus a six week
> showdown during the Omicron surge).
>
> Also all the Los Angeles based ECD and contra have similar policies.
>
> We recommend folks trying a variety of different masks and see which one
> works best for you.
>
> Darlene Hamilton
> --
>
> 
>
> Darlene Hamilton
>
> *Caller, Dancer, Founder of*
> *The Historical Tea & Dance Society*
> *Historical Balls, Tea Dances, and Historical Dance classes*
> *For more information about events and classes go 
> to**www.historicalteaanddance.org
> *
>
> *Like us on facebook!*
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Darlene Hamilton via Organizers]

You can add The HistoricalTea and Dance Society to the
“ Dances with vax+mask policy I know offhand with no reported spreads.”

We’ve been going strong for over a year and a half (minus a six week
showdown during the Omicron surge).

Also all the Los Angeles based ECD and contra have similar policies.

We recommend folks trying a variety of different masks and see which one
works best for you.

Darlene Hamilton
-- 



Darlene Hamilton

*Caller, Dancer, Founder of*
*The Historical Tea & Dance Society*
*Historical Balls, Tea Dances, and Historical Dance classes*
*For more information about events and classes go
to**www.historicalteaanddance.org
*

*Like us on facebook!*
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Donald Perley via Organizers]

Re:  "1 to 2 days before testing" transmission.
For what it's worth, when I got it I had symptoms for ~9 days and 3
negative tests including PCR before I tested positive.
(I was staying home that whole time, because it was "something" even
if not COVID.)

I've read it tends to take longer to test positive when you're fully
vaxed, and I had my 2nd booster a week before exposure.

-A different Don.

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 4:37 PM Heitzso via Organizers
 wrote:
>
> My wife got covid at Roanoke Railroader last summer and I got it from her.
> I researched then (so relevant to variants then, not necessarily current 
> variants)
> and most transmission occurs 1 to 2 days before testing to 2 to 3 days after 
> testing.
> I don't know if that is relevant to this discussion because ...
> I assume most people test when they start to feel different from normal 
> health ...
> which might explain the "1 to 2 days before testing" transmission
> and that's different from a "test regardless of how you feel to dance" 
> testing policy.
> But, I do not know that. That just happens to be the data.
>
> Turkey Quicky, a mini-weekend, fortunately escaped covid spread though
> someone tested positive Saturday morning after dancing Friday night.
> (most dancers were unmasked)
> A KY weekend dance before TQ had a roughly 20% covid
> spread with a recent negative test and a negative test on entry policy.
>
> I'm not saying what policy should or should not be enacted to
> prevent the spread of covid. I'm just noting one official statistic
> and two recent weekend dances data points.
>
> -Heitzso
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers]

Montpelier is masks required but vax NOT required. We've had no documented
spread. (A single case or two after one dance, but no more.) We let callers
choose whether or not to be unmasked, and we know some musicians will need
to be unmasked (ie wind players). We don't require testing for unmasked
talent, but it's an interesting idea! We're always taking a look at our
policies and reassessing, given the ever evolving nature of this pandemic.

Dana

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 11:45 PM Martin Lodahl via Organizers <
organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> You can also add the Sacramento Country Dance Society.  We have an
> exception rule for wind players and such that requires an observed test
> immediately before entering the hall specifically on the principle that if
> the viral load is beneath the test threshold, the three hours of the dance
> will probably pass before their contagiousness ripens fully.  That leaves
> us, of course, vulnerable to the risk of losing s crucial performer (like
> the caller) too late to find a replacement.
>
> Martin
> On 12/21/22 20:34, Winston, Alan P. via Organizers wrote:
>
> I think you can add all the BACDS camps and dances in the SF Bay Area to the 
> vax(and boosted)+mask = no spread so far list.
>
> (We bump up to also requiring tests within six hours of the start of the 
> dance if CDC level is read.)
>
> -- Alsn
>
> 
> From: Julian Blechner via Organizers  
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2022 7:47 PM
> To: Joe Harrington
> Cc: A list for dance organizers
> Subject: [Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing
>
> Dances with vax+mask policy I know offhand with no reported spreads, despite 
> a culture of "please test if you feel ill, please tell us, and we will tell 
> dancers":
>
> Greenfield, MA
> BIDA, MA
> Concord, MA
> Downtown Amherst Contra, MA
> Rainbow Contra in Western Mass
> Pioneer Valley's ECD
> Montpelier, VT (I believe?)
> Glen Echo, MD
> Pinewoods camp weeks that had this policy, at least masking and testing for 3 
> days
> Albany Contra, NY (I am pretty sure)
> Portland, ME's new series
>
> Unsure about CDNY, but I am pretty sure too.
>
> -Julian
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 10:17 PM Joe Harrington via Organizers 
> mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> 
> > wrote:
> I know we all hate them, but some dances are still requiring masks.  Has 
> there been documented spread at a dance where everyone is in a (K)N95 or 
> better, like a Breeze 99?  How about vax+mask or vax+test+mask?  I think we 
> all know that vax+test-mask=spread, from numerous events this past summer and 
> since.
>
> I'd also be interested in a professional opinion on whether our gyrations 
> mean anything if we're not also masking full time when we're out and about.  
> I know the theory, dance is more breathing and close up for a long time, but 
> the new variants are so infectious that I wonder if that matters.  If you're 
> getting 10x the infectious dose in the grocery store, protection during a 
> dance wouldn't matter much.  It's like locking the doors and leaving all the 
> windows open.  But, maybe it's 0.1x the infectious dose at the grocery, and 
> our measures do matter.  I'm only interested in data, not speculation.  Does 
> anyone have any?
>
> --jh--
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 4:37 PM Heitzso via Organizers 
> mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> 
> > wrote:
> My wife got covid at Roanoke Railroader last summer and I got it from her.
> I researched then (so relevant to variants then, not necessarily current 
> variants)
> and most transmission occurs 1 to 2 days before testing to 2 to 3 days after 
> testing.
> I don't know if that is relevant to this discussion because ...
> I assume most people test when they start to feel different from normal 
> health ...
> which might explain the "1 to 2 days before testing" transmission
> and that's different from a "test regardless of how you feel to dance" 
> testing policy.
> But, I do not know that. That just happens to be the data.
>
> Turkey Quicky, a mini-weekend, fortunately escaped covid spread though
> someone tested positive Saturday morning after dancing Friday night.
> (most dancers were unmasked)
> A KY weekend dance before TQ had a roughly 20% covid
> spread with a recent negative test and a negative test on entry policy.
>
> I'm not saying what policy should or should not be enacted to
> prevent the spread of covid. I'm just noting one official statistic
> and two recent weekend dances data points.
>
> -Heitzso
> ___
> Organizers mailin

[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Jeff Kaufman via Organizers]

BIDA had seven reports of people testing positive after the 2022-05-01
dance, which was the last one before which we switched to requiring
N95/KN95/KF94/etc
.

(Though a bunch of the ones testing positive carpooled together from ~2hr
away)

Jeff

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 10:48 PM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Dances with vax+mask policy I know offhand with no reported spreads,
> despite a culture of "please test if you feel ill, please tell us, and we
> will tell dancers":
>
> Greenfield, MA
> BIDA, MA
> Concord, MA
> Downtown Amherst Contra, MA
> Rainbow Contra in Western Mass
> Pioneer Valley's ECD
> Montpelier, VT (I believe?)
> Glen Echo, MD
> Pinewoods camp weeks that had this policy, at least masking and testing
> for 3 days
> Albany Contra, NY (I am pretty sure)
> Portland, ME's new series
>
> Unsure about CDNY, but I am pretty sure too.
>
> -Julian
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 10:17 PM Joe Harrington via Organizers <
> organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I know we all hate them, but some dances are still requiring masks.  Has
>> there been documented spread at a dance where everyone is in a (K)N95 or
>> better, like a Breeze 99?  How about vax+mask or vax+test+mask?  I think we
>> all know that vax+test-mask=spread, from numerous events this past summer
>> and since.
>>
>> I'd also be interested in a professional opinion on whether our gyrations
>> mean anything if we're not also masking full time when we're out and
>> about.  I know the theory, dance is more breathing and close up for a long
>> time, but the new variants are so infectious that I wonder if that
>> matters.  If you're getting 10x the infectious dose in the grocery store,
>> protection during a dance wouldn't matter much.  It's like locking the
>> doors and leaving all the windows open.  But, maybe it's 0.1x the
>> infectious dose at the grocery, and our measures do matter.  I'm only
>> interested in data, not speculation.  Does anyone have any?
>>
>> --jh--
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 4:37 PM Heitzso via Organizers <
>> organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> My wife got covid at Roanoke Railroader last summer and I got it from
>>> her.
>>> I researched then (so relevant to variants then, not necessarily current
>>> variants)
>>> and most transmission occurs 1 to 2 days before testing to 2 to 3 days
>>> after testing.
>>> I don't know if that is relevant to this discussion because ...
>>> I assume most people test when they start to feel different from normal
>>> health ...
>>> which might explain the "1 to 2 days before testing" transmission
>>> and that's different from a "test regardless of how you feel to dance"
>>> testing policy.
>>> But, I do not know that. That just happens to be the data.
>>>
>>> Turkey Quicky, a mini-weekend, fortunately escaped covid spread though
>>> someone tested positive Saturday morning after dancing Friday night.
>>> (most dancers were unmasked)
>>> A KY weekend dance before TQ had a roughly 20% covid
>>> spread with a recent negative test and a negative test on entry policy.
>>>
>>> I'm not saying what policy should or should not be enacted to
>>> prevent the spread of covid. I'm just noting one official statistic
>>> and two recent weekend dances data points.
>>>
>>> -Heitzso
>>> ___
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>>>
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Martin Lodahl via Organizers]

You can also add the Sacramento Country Dance Society.  We have an 
exception rule for wind players and such that requires an observed test 
immediately before entering the hall specifically on the principle that 
if the viral load is beneath the test threshold, the three hours of the 
dance will probably pass before their contagiousness ripens fully.  That 
leaves us, of course, vulnerable to the risk of losing s crucial 
performer (like the caller) too late to find a replacement.


Martin

On 12/21/22 20:34, Winston, Alan P. via Organizers wrote:

I think you can add all the BACDS camps and dances in the SF Bay Area to the 
vax(and boosted)+mask = no spread so far list.

(We bump up to also requiring tests within six hours of the start of the dance 
if CDC level is read.)

-- Alsn


From: Julian Blechner via Organizers
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2022 7:47 PM
To: Joe Harrington
Cc: A list for dance organizers
Subject: [Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

Dances with vax+mask policy I know offhand with no reported spreads, despite a culture of 
"please test if you feel ill, please tell us, and we will tell dancers":

Greenfield, MA
BIDA, MA
Concord, MA
Downtown Amherst Contra, MA
Rainbow Contra in Western Mass
Pioneer Valley's ECD
Montpelier, VT (I believe?)
Glen Echo, MD
Pinewoods camp weeks that had this policy, at least masking and testing for 3 
days
Albany Contra, NY (I am pretty sure)
Portland, ME's new series

Unsure about CDNY, but I am pretty sure too.

-Julian

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 10:17 PM Joe Harrington via Organizers 
mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> 
wrote:
I know we all hate them, but some dances are still requiring masks.  Has there 
been documented spread at a dance where everyone is in a (K)N95 or better, like 
a Breeze 99?  How about vax+mask or vax+test+mask?  I think we all know that 
vax+test-mask=spread, from numerous events this past summer and since.

I'd also be interested in a professional opinion on whether our gyrations mean 
anything if we're not also masking full time when we're out and about.  I know 
the theory, dance is more breathing and close up for a long time, but the new 
variants are so infectious that I wonder if that matters.  If you're getting 
10x the infectious dose in the grocery store, protection during a dance 
wouldn't matter much.  It's like locking the doors and leaving all the windows 
open.  But, maybe it's 0.1x the infectious dose at the grocery, and our 
measures do matter.  I'm only interested in data, not speculation.  Does anyone 
have any?

--jh--


On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 4:37 PM Heitzso via Organizers 
mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> 
wrote:
My wife got covid at Roanoke Railroader last summer and I got it from her.
I researched then (so relevant to variants then, not necessarily current 
variants)
and most transmission occurs 1 to 2 days before testing to 2 to 3 days after 
testing.
I don't know if that is relevant to this discussion because ...
I assume most people test when they start to feel different from normal health 
...
which might explain the "1 to 2 days before testing" transmission
and that's different from a "test regardless of how you feel to dance" testing 
policy.
But, I do not know that. That just happens to be the data.

Turkey Quicky, a mini-weekend, fortunately escaped covid spread though
someone tested positive Saturday morning after dancing Friday night.
(most dancers were unmasked)
A KY weekend dance before TQ had a roughly 20% covid
spread with a recent negative test and a negative test on entry policy.

I'm not saying what policy should or should not be enacted to
prevent the spread of covid. I'm just noting one official statistic
and two recent weekend dances data points.

-Heitzso
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Winston, Alan P. via Organizers]

I think you can add all the BACDS camps and dances in the SF Bay Area to the 
vax(and boosted)+mask = no spread so far list.

(We bump up to also requiring tests within six hours of the start of the dance 
if CDC level is read.)

-- Alsn


From: Julian Blechner via Organizers 
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2022 7:47 PM
To: Joe Harrington
Cc: A list for dance organizers
Subject: [Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

Dances with vax+mask policy I know offhand with no reported spreads, despite a 
culture of "please test if you feel ill, please tell us, and we will tell 
dancers":

Greenfield, MA
BIDA, MA
Concord, MA
Downtown Amherst Contra, MA
Rainbow Contra in Western Mass
Pioneer Valley's ECD
Montpelier, VT (I believe?)
Glen Echo, MD
Pinewoods camp weeks that had this policy, at least masking and testing for 3 
days
Albany Contra, NY (I am pretty sure)
Portland, ME's new series

Unsure about CDNY, but I am pretty sure too.

-Julian

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 10:17 PM Joe Harrington via Organizers 
mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> 
wrote:
I know we all hate them, but some dances are still requiring masks.  Has there 
been documented spread at a dance where everyone is in a (K)N95 or better, like 
a Breeze 99?  How about vax+mask or vax+test+mask?  I think we all know that 
vax+test-mask=spread, from numerous events this past summer and since.

I'd also be interested in a professional opinion on whether our gyrations mean 
anything if we're not also masking full time when we're out and about.  I know 
the theory, dance is more breathing and close up for a long time, but the new 
variants are so infectious that I wonder if that matters.  If you're getting 
10x the infectious dose in the grocery store, protection during a dance 
wouldn't matter much.  It's like locking the doors and leaving all the windows 
open.  But, maybe it's 0.1x the infectious dose at the grocery, and our 
measures do matter.  I'm only interested in data, not speculation.  Does anyone 
have any?

--jh--


On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 4:37 PM Heitzso via Organizers 
mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> 
wrote:
My wife got covid at Roanoke Railroader last summer and I got it from her.
I researched then (so relevant to variants then, not necessarily current 
variants)
and most transmission occurs 1 to 2 days before testing to 2 to 3 days after 
testing.
I don't know if that is relevant to this discussion because ...
I assume most people test when they start to feel different from normal health 
...
which might explain the "1 to 2 days before testing" transmission
and that's different from a "test regardless of how you feel to dance" testing 
policy.
But, I do not know that. That just happens to be the data.

Turkey Quicky, a mini-weekend, fortunately escaped covid spread though
someone tested positive Saturday morning after dancing Friday night.
(most dancers were unmasked)
A KY weekend dance before TQ had a roughly 20% covid
spread with a recent negative test and a negative test on entry policy.

I'm not saying what policy should or should not be enacted to
prevent the spread of covid. I'm just noting one official statistic
and two recent weekend dances data points.

-Heitzso
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Julian Blechner via Organizers]

Dances with vax+mask policy I know offhand with no reported spreads,
despite a culture of "please test if you feel ill, please tell us, and we
will tell dancers":

Greenfield, MA
BIDA, MA
Concord, MA
Downtown Amherst Contra, MA
Rainbow Contra in Western Mass
Pioneer Valley's ECD
Montpelier, VT (I believe?)
Glen Echo, MD
Pinewoods camp weeks that had this policy, at least masking and testing for
3 days
Albany Contra, NY (I am pretty sure)
Portland, ME's new series

Unsure about CDNY, but I am pretty sure too.

-Julian

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 10:17 PM Joe Harrington via Organizers <
organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I know we all hate them, but some dances are still requiring masks.  Has
> there been documented spread at a dance where everyone is in a (K)N95 or
> better, like a Breeze 99?  How about vax+mask or vax+test+mask?  I think we
> all know that vax+test-mask=spread, from numerous events this past summer
> and since.
>
> I'd also be interested in a professional opinion on whether our gyrations
> mean anything if we're not also masking full time when we're out and
> about.  I know the theory, dance is more breathing and close up for a long
> time, but the new variants are so infectious that I wonder if that
> matters.  If you're getting 10x the infectious dose in the grocery store,
> protection during a dance wouldn't matter much.  It's like locking the
> doors and leaving all the windows open.  But, maybe it's 0.1x the
> infectious dose at the grocery, and our measures do matter.  I'm only
> interested in data, not speculation.  Does anyone have any?
>
> --jh--
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 4:37 PM Heitzso via Organizers <
> organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> My wife got covid at Roanoke Railroader last summer and I got it from her.
>> I researched then (so relevant to variants then, not necessarily current
>> variants)
>> and most transmission occurs 1 to 2 days before testing to 2 to 3 days
>> after testing.
>> I don't know if that is relevant to this discussion because ...
>> I assume most people test when they start to feel different from normal
>> health ...
>> which might explain the "1 to 2 days before testing" transmission
>> and that's different from a "test regardless of how you feel to dance"
>> testing policy.
>> But, I do not know that. That just happens to be the data.
>>
>> Turkey Quicky, a mini-weekend, fortunately escaped covid spread though
>> someone tested positive Saturday morning after dancing Friday night.
>> (most dancers were unmasked)
>> A KY weekend dance before TQ had a roughly 20% covid
>> spread with a recent negative test and a negative test on entry policy.
>>
>> I'm not saying what policy should or should not be enacted to
>> prevent the spread of covid. I'm just noting one official statistic
>> and two recent weekend dances data points.
>>
>> -Heitzso
>> ___
>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>>
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>
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Joe Harrington via Organizers]

I know we all hate them, but some dances are still requiring masks.  Has
there been documented spread at a dance where everyone is in a (K)N95 or
better, like a Breeze 99?  How about vax+mask or vax+test+mask?  I think we
all know that vax+test-mask=spread, from numerous events this past summer
and since.

I'd also be interested in a professional opinion on whether our gyrations
mean anything if we're not also masking full time when we're out and
about.  I know the theory, dance is more breathing and close up for a long
time, but the new variants are so infectious that I wonder if that
matters.  If you're getting 10x the infectious dose in the grocery store,
protection during a dance wouldn't matter much.  It's like locking the
doors and leaving all the windows open.  But, maybe it's 0.1x the
infectious dose at the grocery, and our measures do matter.  I'm only
interested in data, not speculation.  Does anyone have any?

--jh--


On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 4:37 PM Heitzso via Organizers <
organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> My wife got covid at Roanoke Railroader last summer and I got it from her.
> I researched then (so relevant to variants then, not necessarily current
> variants)
> and most transmission occurs 1 to 2 days before testing to 2 to 3 days
> after testing.
> I don't know if that is relevant to this discussion because ...
> I assume most people test when they start to feel different from normal
> health ...
> which might explain the "1 to 2 days before testing" transmission
> and that's different from a "test regardless of how you feel to dance"
> testing policy.
> But, I do not know that. That just happens to be the data.
>
> Turkey Quicky, a mini-weekend, fortunately escaped covid spread though
> someone tested positive Saturday morning after dancing Friday night.
> (most dancers were unmasked)
> A KY weekend dance before TQ had a roughly 20% covid
> spread with a recent negative test and a negative test on entry policy.
>
> I'm not saying what policy should or should not be enacted to
> prevent the spread of covid. I'm just noting one official statistic
> and two recent weekend dances data points.
>
> -Heitzso
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Heitzso via Organizers]

My wife got covid at Roanoke Railroader last summer and I got it from her.
I researched then (so relevant to variants then, not necessarily current 
variants)
and most transmission occurs 1 to 2 days before testing to 2 to 3 days after 
testing.
I don't know if that is relevant to this discussion because ...
I assume most people test when they start to feel different from normal health 
...
which might explain the "1 to 2 days before testing" transmission
and that's different from a "test regardless of how you feel to dance" testing 
policy.
But, I do not know that. That just happens to be the data.

Turkey Quicky, a mini-weekend, fortunately escaped covid spread though
someone tested positive Saturday morning after dancing Friday night.
(most dancers were unmasked)
A KY weekend dance before TQ had a roughly 20% covid
spread with a recent negative test and a negative test on entry policy.

I'm not saying what policy should or should not be enacted to
prevent the spread of covid. I'm just noting one official statistic
and two recent weekend dances data points.

-Heitzso
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Julian Blechner via Organizers]

I'd like to suggest that, perhaps orgs should consider a second change (for
those that don't already):

When a positive case is reported to a dance org a few days after a dance
(and thus in a contagious window) perhaps _all dancers_ should be
encouraged to rapid test, and not merely people who show symptoms. I
realize not everyone will do it, but it costs nothing to ask folks and try
and limit asymptomatic spread. (I'll bring this with my org next meeting.)


In dance,
Julian Blechner
He/Him

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 3:54 PM Don Veino via Organizers <
organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Thanks Penelope, so far so good(ish).
>
> Regarding the language, I plan on revising our policy to specify a
> deadline of 4 hours before the event start time - hopefully sufficient to
> find alternative talent in case of a positive result yet support timely
> data.
>
> -Don
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 3:15 PM Penelope Weinberger <
> pz_weinber...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And this is (part of) the insidious problem with an often symptomless
>> disease. Of course if we test as a pro forma, we expect a negative result.
>> Don, I hope you come through quickly at remains a mild case.
>> --
>> *From:* Don Veino via Organizers 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 20, 2022 1:57 PM
>> *To:* lstur...@aol.com 
>> *Cc:* Don Veino via Organizers ; A
>> list for dance organizers 
>> *Subject:* [Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing
>>
>> Liz, that makes perfect sense in retrospect. However, many venues do not
>> require testing for folks who remain masked and have had a "test in to
>> unmask" approach for performers while on stage (where they were masked
>> elsewhere and, until receiving a negative result, on stage as well).
>>
>> Greenfield's own central policy states:
>>
>> "Band members may unmask when on-stage for some series, but only if they
>> have a negative rapid test on the day of the dance. Event publicity will
>> clearly state whether performers may be unmasked at that specific event."
>>
>> Note there's no specific timeline stated there for when the testing shall
>> happen other than it be on the day of.
>>
>> That's the point I'm raising from our recent experience.
>>
>> -Don
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 1:47 PM lstur...@aol.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I would have thought that anyone testing before attending or performing
>> at a dance would determine that their test was actually negative before
>> entering the hall and potentially exposing people.
>> Liz Sturgen
>>
>> Sent from the all new AOL app for Android
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fplay.google.com%2Fstore%2Fapps%2Fdetails%3Fid%3Dcom.aol.mobile.aolapp=05%7C01%7C%7C6ff1ae49b3e845cfe67508dae2bc3737%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638071595257034436%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=HVLrU2kg2l0ywfqQstuuiNd%2BIuEWIP1FAeWO2P1L%2F7s%3D=0>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 9:46 PM, Don Veino via Organizers
>>  wrote:
>> For those of you with a COVID policy regarding testing (particularly re:
>> performers "testing in" to be on stage unmasked) - please consider your
>> lead time and possibilities for contingency action. We'll be changing the
>> policy of our dance due to our experience tonight.
>>
>> Our caller (me!) tested upon arrival at the hall. Entered masked, helped
>> get set up going and then discovered a positive result. Thirty minutes to
>> the first dance, folks already en route. Best efforts made, the dance was
>> able to happen without me but just barely.
>>
>> We will be requiring this optional testing now to happen within a
>> specified period which will provide for sufficient time to react
>> appropriately before the event set up commences.
>> ___
>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>>
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Don Veino via Organizers]

Thanks Penelope, so far so good(ish).

Regarding the language, I plan on revising our policy to specify a deadline
of 4 hours before the event start time - hopefully sufficient to find
alternative talent in case of a positive result yet support timely data.

-Don

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 3:15 PM Penelope Weinberger <
pz_weinber...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> And this is (part of) the insidious problem with an often symptomless
> disease. Of course if we test as a pro forma, we expect a negative result.
> Don, I hope you come through quickly at remains a mild case.
> --
> *From:* Don Veino via Organizers 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 20, 2022 1:57 PM
> *To:* lstur...@aol.com 
> *Cc:* Don Veino via Organizers ; A
> list for dance organizers 
> *Subject:* [Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing
>
> Liz, that makes perfect sense in retrospect. However, many venues do not
> require testing for folks who remain masked and have had a "test in to
> unmask" approach for performers while on stage (where they were masked
> elsewhere and, until receiving a negative result, on stage as well).
>
> Greenfield's own central policy states:
>
> "Band members may unmask when on-stage for some series, but only if they
> have a negative rapid test on the day of the dance. Event publicity will
> clearly state whether performers may be unmasked at that specific event."
>
> Note there's no specific timeline stated there for when the testing shall
> happen other than it be on the day of.
>
> That's the point I'm raising from our recent experience.
>
> -Don
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 1:47 PM lstur...@aol.com  wrote:
>
> I would have thought that anyone testing before attending or performing at
> a dance would determine that their test was actually negative before
> entering the hall and potentially exposing people.
> Liz Sturgen
>
> Sent from the all new AOL app for Android
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fplay.google.com%2Fstore%2Fapps%2Fdetails%3Fid%3Dcom.aol.mobile.aolapp=05%7C01%7C%7C6ff1ae49b3e845cfe67508dae2bc3737%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638071595257034436%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=HVLrU2kg2l0ywfqQstuuiNd%2BIuEWIP1FAeWO2P1L%2F7s%3D=0>
>
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 9:46 PM, Don Veino via Organizers
>  wrote:
> For those of you with a COVID policy regarding testing (particularly re:
> performers "testing in" to be on stage unmasked) - please consider your
> lead time and possibilities for contingency action. We'll be changing the
> policy of our dance due to our experience tonight.
>
> Our caller (me!) tested upon arrival at the hall. Entered masked, helped
> get set up going and then discovered a positive result. Thirty minutes to
> the first dance, folks already en route. Best efforts made, the dance was
> able to happen without me but just barely.
>
> We will be requiring this optional testing now to happen within a
> specified period which will provide for sufficient time to react
> appropriately before the event set up commences.
> ___
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers@lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Penelope Weinberger via Organizers]

And this is (part of) the insidious problem with an often symptomless disease. 
Of course if we test as a pro forma, we expect a negative result. Don, I hope 
you come through quickly at remains a mild case.

From: Don Veino via Organizers 
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2022 1:57 PM
To: lstur...@aol.com 
Cc: Don Veino via Organizers ; A list for 
dance organizers 
Subject: [Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

Liz, that makes perfect sense in retrospect. However, many venues do not 
require testing for folks who remain masked and have had a "test in to unmask" 
approach for performers while on stage (where they were masked elsewhere and, 
until receiving a negative result, on stage as well).

Greenfield's own central policy states:

"Band members may unmask when on-stage for some series, but only if they have a 
negative rapid test on the day of the dance. Event publicity will clearly state 
whether performers may be unmasked at that specific event."

Note there's no specific timeline stated there for when the testing shall 
happen other than it be on the day of.

That's the point I'm raising from our recent experience.

-Don

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 1:47 PM lstur...@aol.com<mailto:lstur...@aol.com> 
mailto:lstur...@aol.com>> wrote:
I would have thought that anyone testing before attending or performing at a 
dance would determine that their test was actually negative before entering the 
hall and potentially exposing people.
Liz Sturgen

Sent from the all new AOL app for 
Android<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fplay.google.com%2Fstore%2Fapps%2Fdetails%3Fid%3Dcom.aol.mobile.aolapp=05%7C01%7C%7C6ff1ae49b3e845cfe67508dae2bc3737%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638071595257034436%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=HVLrU2kg2l0ywfqQstuuiNd%2BIuEWIP1FAeWO2P1L%2F7s%3D=0>

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 9:46 PM, Don Veino via Organizers
mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> 
wrote:
For those of you with a COVID policy regarding testing (particularly re: 
performers "testing in" to be on stage unmasked) - please consider your lead 
time and possibilities for contingency action. We'll be changing the policy of 
our dance due to our experience tonight.

Our caller (me!) tested upon arrival at the hall. Entered masked, helped get 
set up going and then discovered a positive result. Thirty minutes to the first 
dance, folks already en route. Best efforts made, the dance was able to happen 
without me but just barely.

We will be requiring this optional testing now to happen within a specified 
period which will provide for sufficient time to react appropriately before the 
event set up commences.
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[lsturgen--- via Organizers]

Understood, and I am sorry if my tone seemed harsh. It seems that "on the day 
of the dance" may be the best compromise between giving a little lead time in 
case a substitute performer must be found, and keeping the testing reasonable 
current.
Some of the Greenfield series do not allow for unmasked performers, or may make 
an exception for wind players. It is up to the organizers.
Liz

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
 
  On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 1:58 PM, Don Veino wrote: 
  Liz, that makes perfect sense in retrospect. However, many venues do not 
require testing for folks who remain masked and have had a "test in to unmask" 
approach for performers while on stage (where they were masked elsewhere and, 
until receiving a negative result, on stage as well).
Greenfield's own central policy states:
"Band members may unmask when on-stage for some series, but only if they have a 
negative rapid test on the day of the dance. Event publicity will clearly state 
whether performers may be unmasked at that specific event."
Note there's no specific timeline stated there for when the testing shall 
happen other than it be on the day of.
That's the point I'm raising from our recent experience.
-Don
On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 1:47 PM lstur...@aol.com  wrote:

I would have thought that anyone testing before attending or performing at a 
dance would determine that their test was actually negative before entering the 
hall and potentially exposing people. Liz Sturgen 

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
 
  On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 9:46 PM, Don Veino via 
Organizers wrote:   For those of you with a 
COVID policy regarding testing (particularly re: performers "testing in" to be 
on stage unmasked) - please consider your lead time and possibilities for 
contingency action. We'll be changing the policy of our dance due to our 
experience tonight.
Our caller (me!) tested upon arrival at the hall. Entered masked, helped get 
set up going and then discovered a positive result. Thirty minutes to the first 
dance, folks already en route. Best efforts made, the dance was able to happen 
without me but just barely.
We will be requiring this optional testing now to happen within a specified 
period which will provide for sufficient time to react appropriately before the 
event set up commences.
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Martin Lodahl via Organizers]

Fascinating and valuable discussion.  Our policy requires the test for 
any unmasked talent to be completed immediately before they enter the 
hall, on the principle that anyone with a low enough virus load to pass 
a rapid test is unlikely to pose a risk to the dancers.  This adds a 
dimension we hadn't considered. Losing a caller or musician at the last 
minute is a serious problem, and adding to the time lag between the test 
and the end of the dance increases the risk.


Martin

On 12/20/22 10:57, Don Veino via Organizers wrote:
Liz, that makes perfect sense in retrospect. However, many venues do 
not require testing for folks who remain masked and have had a "test 
in to unmask" approach for performers while on stage (where they were 
masked elsewhere and, until receiving a negative result, on stage as 
well).


Greenfield's own central policy states:

"Band members may unmask when on-stage for some series, but only if 
they have a negative rapid test on the day of the dance. Event 
publicity will clearly state whether performers may be unmasked at 
that specific event."


Note there's no specific timeline stated there for when the testing 
shall happen other than it be on the day of.


That's the point I'm raising from our recent experience.

-Don

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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Don Veino via Organizers]

Liz, that makes perfect sense in retrospect. However, many venues do not
require testing for folks who remain masked and have had a "test in to
unmask" approach for performers while on stage (where they were masked
elsewhere and, until receiving a negative result, on stage as well).

Greenfield's own central policy states:

"Band members may unmask when on-stage for some series, but only if they
have a negative rapid test on the day of the dance. Event publicity will
clearly state whether performers may be unmasked at that specific event."

Note there's no specific timeline stated there for when the testing shall
happen other than it be on the day of.

That's the point I'm raising from our recent experience.

-Don

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 1:47 PM lstur...@aol.com  wrote:

> I would have thought that anyone testing before attending or performing at
> a dance would determine that their test was actually negative before
> entering the hall and potentially exposing people.
> Liz Sturgen
>
> Sent from the all new AOL app for Android
> 
>
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 9:46 PM, Don Veino via Organizers
>  wrote:
> For those of you with a COVID policy regarding testing (particularly re:
> performers "testing in" to be on stage unmasked) - please consider your
> lead time and possibilities for contingency action. We'll be changing the
> policy of our dance due to our experience tonight.
>
> Our caller (me!) tested upon arrival at the hall. Entered masked, helped
> get set up going and then discovered a positive result. Thirty minutes to
> the first dance, folks already en route. Best efforts made, the dance was
> able to happen without me but just barely.
>
> We will be requiring this optional testing now to happen within a
> specified period which will provide for sufficient time to react
> appropriately before the event set up commences.
> ___
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> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[Jeff Kaufman via Organizers]

I've seen policies of "test on arrival, keep your N95 on until your test
resolves" in a lot of places, and I think they're often a reasonable
tradeoff: it means your test is as current as possible, an N95 is very
effective, and the chance of a positive is low.

If the rule was "everyone tested and wearing an N95 the whole time" that
would be different, but this is a situation where the default was to keep
the N95 on and not test.

Jeff

On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 1:48 PM lsturgen--- via Organizers <
organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I would have thought that anyone testing before attending or performing at
> a dance would determine that their test was actually negative before
> entering the hall and potentially exposing people.
> Liz Sturgen
>
> Sent from the all new AOL app for Android
> 
>
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 9:46 PM, Don Veino via Organizers
>  wrote:
> For those of you with a COVID policy regarding testing (particularly re:
> performers "testing in" to be on stage unmasked) - please consider your
> lead time and possibilities for contingency action. We'll be changing the
> policy of our dance due to our experience tonight.
>
> Our caller (me!) tested upon arrival at the hall. Entered masked, helped
> get set up going and then discovered a positive result. Thirty minutes to
> the first dance, folks already en route. Best efforts made, the dance was
> able to happen without me but just barely.
>
> We will be requiring this optional testing now to happen within a
> specified period which will provide for sufficient time to react
> appropriately before the event set up commences.
> ___
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers@lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>
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[Organizers] Re: Performer "Testing to Unmask" Policy Timing

[lsturgen--- via Organizers]

I would have thought that anyone testing before attending or performing at a 
dance would determine that their test was actually negative before entering the 
hall and potentially exposing people. Liz Sturgen 

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
 
  On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 9:46 PM, Don Veino via 
Organizers wrote:   For those of you with a 
COVID policy regarding testing (particularly re: performers "testing in" to be 
on stage unmasked) - please consider your lead time and possibilities for 
contingency action. We'll be changing the policy of our dance due to our 
experience tonight.
Our caller (me!) tested upon arrival at the hall. Entered masked, helped get 
set up going and then discovered a positive result. Thirty minutes to the first 
dance, folks already en route. Best efforts made, the dance was able to happen 
without me but just barely.
We will be requiring this optional testing now to happen within a specified 
period which will provide for sufficient time to react appropriately before the 
event set up commences.
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