Re: [Origami] Oldest preserved fold?
OK, I wanted to give you an update regarding this matter. I contacted Norman Brosterman. This was his answer: "I have folds dated 1874 from St. Louis. Made by American kindergarten teachers." A member on the list offered helping me contact Joan Sallas. Hopefully he has pictures of Senff's models in display in German museums and have a good idea of how old they are. I'll let you know once I contact him. Karen, did you have any luck getting a picture of Linnaeus's fold of the seed packet from 1778? Guys, any idea of how we can contact Koshiro Hatori or the Moriwaki family regarding the folds from the first decade of the XIX century that the family owns? There has to be a way. Another member on the list mentioned me the Turin papyrus map as the oldest preserved fold. There's information here about the map: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turin_Papyrus_Map According to the information there, it might have never been folded: the apparent creases might be a consequence of the deterioration of the paper. Besides that I personally would say the map isn't well-preserved, and even if it was, in my own opinion the traditional method for folding a map isn't origami, but that's just what I think : ) This centuries old folds might offer us tips about how to best preserve our best folds. Just a thought ; ) Gerardo gerardo(a)neorigami.com PS: Thank you for the tips regarding the drinking cup; It has been really useful. I'm doing some tests. If you're interested, I also started a very interesting thread about the models capacity in The Origami Forum: http://snkhan.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12=13674
Re: [Origami] Oldest preserved fold?
Jose Tomás replied to my question about if the "Marching Soldiers" in display in the toy museum of Nuremberg might be the oldest preserved folds. Thank you Jose Tomás : ) JT: "Joan Sallas found some of the Senff's models in Dresden" Do you know the free ebook "An Origami Army of the Past" by Jens-Helge Dahmen? You can download it here: http://www.origami-shop.com/en/free-origami-ebook-xml-206_284_218_489-2554.html In pages 56 and 57 you can find different historic variations of the model and in what museum or classic book you can find them. Unfortunately the ones in museums, Nuremberg and Dresden, don't mention any dates. JT: "Also, Koshiro Hatori reported some Japanese models from the first decade of the XIX Century, from the Moriwaki family and some modeles folded by Kuzuhara Koto. May be them can tell us more about this." Did you find that information here https://doyouknowjapan.com/origami/ ? Guys, do any of you know a way to contact Koshiro Hatori or the Moriwaki family. I hope I'm not the only one really curious about those folds! Karen Reeds also replied. K: "The oldest preserved fold that I've seen is the traditional Seed Packet in the Linnaeus Museum/Botanical Garden, Uppsala, Sweden. http://www.linnaeus.se/link3.html It's very small and labeled by Carl Linnaeus himself (1707 – 10 January 1778) -- so it's at least 238 years old (...) I don't have a photo, but I know some of the people at the museum and could ask about getting one." Please do Karen! I can't wait to see some pictures and read anything they can tell us about that folded seed packet : ) K: "Norman Brosterman's collection might include some early 19th century Froebel and/or Pestalozzi kindergarten origami folds. Unfortunately, the wonderful images on his website don't give details about dates or provenance. His book might give useful leads". The website includes a contact form. I'll ask Mr. Brosterman if he knows exactly how old does folds are. Thank you guys for your very interesting answers. If anyone else has a candidate, please share it here in the list ; ) Cheers!
[Origami] Oldest preserved fold?
Dear Gerardo July 9, 2016 Thanks for raising the question again! Here are 2 possibilities for European examples. The oldest preserved fold that I've seen is the traditional Seed Packet in the Linnaeus Museum/Botanical Garden, Uppsala, Sweden. http://www.linnaeus.se/link3.html It's very small and labeled by Carl Linnaeus himself (1707 – 10 January 1778) -- so it's at least 238 years old. I believe it still contains specimen seeds. I wasn't able to inspect it closely on my visit, but I think the folding method may be slightly different from D. Petty's Seed Packet diagrams. I don't have a photo, but I know some of the people at the museum and could ask about getting one. *Linnaeus Museum *mus...@linnaeus.se, i...@linnaeus.se Norman Brosterman's collection http://www.brosterman.com/kindergarten.shtml might include some early 19th century Froebel and/or Pestalozzi kindergarten origami folds. Unfortunately, the wonderful images on his website (e.g. http://www.brosterman.com/kindergarten_pages/image43.shtml) don't give details about dates or provenance. His book might give useful leads: https://www.nytimes.com/books/97/09/07/reviews/970907.07elkindt.html New York Times review by David Elkind of INVENTING KINDERGARTEN By Norman Brosterman. Illustrated. 160 pp. New York: Harry N. Abrams. $39.95. "Born in Oberweissbach in central Germany, Froebel (1782-1852) was trained in science and became a teacher at a model school in Frankfurt in 1805. He studied with the Swiss educator Johann Pestalozzi [1746-1827] the first to translate Rousseau's radical educational philosophy into practice -- and developed a distrust of formal education as he began to put faith in children's ability to learn through play, or activities that they initiated and directed themselvesThe kindergarten idea caught on quickly, and by the turn of the century thousands of kindergartens were part of the educational landscape. It's this universality that leads Brosterman to contend that modern art and architecture derive, at least in part, from many modern artists' having attended Froebelian kindergartens. He compares exceptional creations of children in the classroom to the paintings of Georges Braque, Piet Mondrian, Paul Klee and Wassily Kandinsky, and he sees extraordinary parallels between the artwork of kindergartners and that of the Cubists. Equally striking, he feels, are the similarities between children's origami shapes and the architectural drawings of Frank Lloyd Wright and Le Corbusier" Wishing David Lister were alive to tell us the answer! Karen Karen Reeds, co-ringleader, Princeton Public Library Origami Group. Affiliate of Origami USA, http://origamiusa.org/ We usually meet 2nd Wednesday of the month, 6:30-8pm, 3rd floor. Free! We provide paper! All welcome! (Kids under 8, please bring a grown-up.) Princeton Public Library info: 609.924.9529 http://princetonlibrary.org/ Celebrating 10 years of folding together in Princeton! Our next meeting: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 karenmre...@gmail.com
Re: [Origami] Oldest preserved fold?
Hello. Joan Sallas found some of the Senff's models in Dresden. Also, Koshiro Hatori reported some Japanese models from the first decade of the XIX Century, from the Moriwaki family and some modeles folded by Kuzuhara Koto. May be them can tell us more about this. In Japan most people give some boxes of folded models as presents and some of those models are preserved for a lot of time. Jose Tomas Buitrago
Re: [Origami] Oldest preserved fold?
In April 15th I asked what might be the oldest preserved fold (folded model). There weren't any answers before this one. Kasahara in "The Art and Wonder of Origami" mentions a series of folds named "Marching Soldiers", with an enamel coating, that were made "some 100 years ago". According to him, they were in display in a toy museum in Nuremberg, Germany. They seem to be Carl Adolf Senff's "Horse and Rider", or at least its variation: knight on horse. Have any of you seen this specific enamel-coated folds of the model? Can you you show me any pictures? I want to be clear that I'm asking about the physical pieces that were probably folded at least a 100 years ago; not the design. Might they be the oldest preserved folds? What do you think? Cheers! Geardo gerardo(a)neorigami.com
