Re: [osg-users] Performing non-rendering actions between renderbins
Hi Robert, My in-experience with OSG made using the CompositeViewer easy, the explicit methods to add additional views jumped out as a quick and easy way to accomplish the goal of multiple views of the scene, each with a slightly different data set. In hind-sight I realize that it may not be how I would accomplish the task if I was to start over. As for putting together a basic osgcompositor app, I would love to but I don't own the copyrights for all the code I am writting, this has been both a work project and a personal project. Based on your interest in the concepts up to this point I have started the process of getting permission to open up my code, I don't expect it will be an issue, but I don't have a timeline on it. - Jason On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 12:30 AM, Robert Osfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Jason, > > On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 10:27 PM, Jason Baurick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Robert, > > > > I'll look at osgViewer::Viewer, the reason I used > osgViewer::CompositeViewer > > is because the methods it provided made implementing something very > easy. > > I'm curious, what methods made it easier with CompositeViewer? Just > the availability > of extra master Camera's? If so then slave camera's within a single > View(er) should > be sufficient. > > > Right now I am targeting multiple GPU machines, I have looked at > clusters in > > the past for this problem but that is not the direction I am working in > > right now. My inspiration for this project comes from my experience > working > > in a startup that did transparent OpenGL sort-first and sort-last > > compositing, so I have lots of experience with the various compositing > > methods already. > > Scene graphs are certainly a good way to tackle complex rendering set > ups efficiently, > if the scene graph is flexible enough. > > I would like see compositing support integrated into osgViewer at some > point in the > not too distant future. A first step towards this would be to have an > osgcompositor > example that renders on multiple GPUs and composites the result. This > example > could be a bit of hack, doing stuff that might be a be dirty to make > sure the viewer > can be tricked into doing the right thing. The next step after this > would be to > refactor osgUtil/osgViewer to make support of compositing more > streamlined. > > In terms of helping you out, it'd be much easier to discuss things if > we had a code > base that we could both review and test first hand, doing email > support for complex > stuff is really slow and costly time wise. > > So... any chance you could put together a basic osgcompositor app based on > your > current experiments? > > Robert. > ___ > osg-users mailing list > osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org > http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org > -- --Jason Baurick ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Performing non-rendering actions between renderbins
Hi Jason, On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 10:27 PM, Jason Baurick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Robert, > > I'll look at osgViewer::Viewer, the reason I used osgViewer::CompositeViewer > is because the methods it provided made implementing something very easy. I'm curious, what methods made it easier with CompositeViewer? Just the availability of extra master Camera's? If so then slave camera's within a single View(er) should be sufficient. > Right now I am targeting multiple GPU machines, I have looked at clusters in > the past for this problem but that is not the direction I am working in > right now. My inspiration for this project comes from my experience working > in a startup that did transparent OpenGL sort-first and sort-last > compositing, so I have lots of experience with the various compositing > methods already. Scene graphs are certainly a good way to tackle complex rendering set ups efficiently, if the scene graph is flexible enough. I would like see compositing support integrated into osgViewer at some point in the not too distant future. A first step towards this would be to have an osgcompositor example that renders on multiple GPUs and composites the result. This example could be a bit of hack, doing stuff that might be a be dirty to make sure the viewer can be tricked into doing the right thing. The next step after this would be to refactor osgUtil/osgViewer to make support of compositing more streamlined. In terms of helping you out, it'd be much easier to discuss things if we had a code base that we could both review and test first hand, doing email support for complex stuff is really slow and costly time wise. So... any chance you could put together a basic osgcompositor app based on your current experiments? Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Performing non-rendering actions between renderbins
Hi Robert, I'll look at osgViewer::Viewer, the reason I used osgViewer::CompositeViewer is because the methods it provided made implementing something very easy. Right now I am targeting multiple GPU machines, I have looked at clusters in the past for this problem but that is not the direction I am working in right now. My inspiration for this project comes from my experience working in a startup that did transparent OpenGL sort-first and sort-last compositing, so I have lots of experience with the various compositing methods already. Just having access to the scene graph solves many of the problems that we where unable to efficently solve as a transparent OpenGL layer. Things like data decompositing become trival in a scene graph and are next to impossible to do efficently when all you are getting is the raw polygon data. Thanks for your help and interest. - Jason On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 1:36 AM, Robert Osfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Jason, > > For your compositing like you are doing I'd suggest using > osgViewer::Viewer rather than osgViewer::CompositeViewer, as when > doing compositing you are logically managing a single view of the > scene, even though its composed of a number of slave cameras. A > CompositeViewer is for composing a viewer from multiple views, > although given the name Composite in the class name I can certainly > see the draw, just in this case its composing views, rather than > blocks of rendering. It may be that eventually you'll want to use a > CompositeViewer managing multiple views, that each are doing their own > compositing too... ;-) > > BTW, what hardware set up are you targeting? A cluster, a multiple GPU > machine? Is there a particular paper you are using for inspiration > for you work? > > Robert. > > On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 9:04 PM, Jason Baurick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Robert, > > > > Ideally I would do this at a higher level, I am just new to OSG in > general, > > so I took the first path I found that would do what I needed. Setup is > > actually done above the CompositeViewer in my prototype and I would like > to > > do the entire process at that level. I was looking at making a > > CompositedViewer class that handled all the details I do outside the > > existing viewer structure. > > > > Thanks for the pointer on renderstages/renderbins. I will begin looking > at > > that latter today and see what I can do with them. > > > > - Jason > > > > On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:57 AM, Robert Osfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > wrote: > >> > >> Hi Jason, > >> > >> Compositing is topic that I haven't personally tackled yet, but am > >> very curious about it, and something I something that osgViewer could > >> probably evolve to help out with it. I say evolve as it doesn't have > >> an explicit support for it right now, but in terms of functionality > >> compositing is a high level feature that depends upon the hardware > >> setup rather than the scene itself, so is natural to implement it at > >> the higher level of the viewer, rather than embedded in the scene > >> graph. It would be nice to have composite support as a configurable > >> feature of osgViewer just like management of multiple graphics > >> context/displays. > >> > >> To implement what you need right now it might well be best to > >> modify/subclass osgUtil::RenderStage/RenderBin to provide the hooks > >> you require as its the object in the rendering backend that does the > >> rendering. I'm open to see required changes merged into the core > >> OSG, with a view to see compositing support make its way into a core > >> feature of osgViewer. > >> > >> Robert. > >> > >> On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Jason Baurick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> > Hi Robert, > >> > > >> > I'm implementing various sort-last compositing methods using OSG. For > >> > depth > >> > compositing you need to composite after the opaque data has been > >> > rendered > >> > but before the transparent data has been rendered. Compositing is > >> > actually > >> > done with buffer transfers Read Pixels, Texture Images, PBOs, etc... > >> > > >> > Since each view has to do different work I just added Geodes with > custom > >> > drawables to the scene graph which do the required GL action. The > >> > problem > >> > with this method is I'm adding at least one node for each GPU I want > to > >> > work > >> > with, in some sort-last cases multiple nodes per GPU. This is not a > >> > clean > >> > implementation in my opinion. So I am looking for other ideas on how > I > >> > can > >> > insert operations in-between rendering bins. > >> > > >> > - Jason > >> > > >> > > >> > On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 2:59 AM, Robert Osfield > >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > wrote: > >> > > Hi Jason, > >> > > > >> > > What do types of operations are you looking to do? > >> > > > >> > > Robert. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Jason Baurick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > Hi, >
Re: [osg-users] Performing non-rendering actions between renderbins
Hi Jason, For your compositing like you are doing I'd suggest using osgViewer::Viewer rather than osgViewer::CompositeViewer, as when doing compositing you are logically managing a single view of the scene, even though its composed of a number of slave cameras. A CompositeViewer is for composing a viewer from multiple views, although given the name Composite in the class name I can certainly see the draw, just in this case its composing views, rather than blocks of rendering. It may be that eventually you'll want to use a CompositeViewer managing multiple views, that each are doing their own compositing too... ;-) BTW, what hardware set up are you targeting? A cluster, a multiple GPU machine? Is there a particular paper you are using for inspiration for you work? Robert. On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 9:04 PM, Jason Baurick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Robert, > > Ideally I would do this at a higher level, I am just new to OSG in general, > so I took the first path I found that would do what I needed. Setup is > actually done above the CompositeViewer in my prototype and I would like to > do the entire process at that level. I was looking at making a > CompositedViewer class that handled all the details I do outside the > existing viewer structure. > > Thanks for the pointer on renderstages/renderbins. I will begin looking at > that latter today and see what I can do with them. > > - Jason > > On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:57 AM, Robert Osfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> >> Hi Jason, >> >> Compositing is topic that I haven't personally tackled yet, but am >> very curious about it, and something I something that osgViewer could >> probably evolve to help out with it. I say evolve as it doesn't have >> an explicit support for it right now, but in terms of functionality >> compositing is a high level feature that depends upon the hardware >> setup rather than the scene itself, so is natural to implement it at >> the higher level of the viewer, rather than embedded in the scene >> graph. It would be nice to have composite support as a configurable >> feature of osgViewer just like management of multiple graphics >> context/displays. >> >> To implement what you need right now it might well be best to >> modify/subclass osgUtil::RenderStage/RenderBin to provide the hooks >> you require as its the object in the rendering backend that does the >> rendering. I'm open to see required changes merged into the core >> OSG, with a view to see compositing support make its way into a core >> feature of osgViewer. >> >> Robert. >> >> On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Jason Baurick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > Hi Robert, >> > >> > I'm implementing various sort-last compositing methods using OSG. For >> > depth >> > compositing you need to composite after the opaque data has been >> > rendered >> > but before the transparent data has been rendered. Compositing is >> > actually >> > done with buffer transfers Read Pixels, Texture Images, PBOs, etc... >> > >> > Since each view has to do different work I just added Geodes with custom >> > drawables to the scene graph which do the required GL action. The >> > problem >> > with this method is I'm adding at least one node for each GPU I want to >> > work >> > with, in some sort-last cases multiple nodes per GPU. This is not a >> > clean >> > implementation in my opinion. So I am looking for other ideas on how I >> > can >> > insert operations in-between rendering bins. >> > >> > - Jason >> > >> > >> > On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 2:59 AM, Robert Osfield >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > wrote: >> > > Hi Jason, >> > > >> > > What do types of operations are you looking to do? >> > > >> > > Robert. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Jason Baurick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > > wrote: >> > > > Hi, >> > > > >> > > > I recently started working with OSG and I have what is hopefully a >> > simple >> > > > question. I have a composite viewer with two views, I want to >> > > > perform >> > an >> > > > action on the buffers in each view between the opaque rendering and >> > > > the >> > > > transparent rendering, each view needs to perform a different >> > > > action. >> > > > Currently to make this work I added two nodes to my scene graph, >> > > > culled >> > out >> > > > one for each view and then stuck them in a renderbin between the >> > > > opaque >> > and >> > > > transparent bins. So I guess what I'm asking is if there is a >> > > > simpler >> > way >> > > > to do this? I tried setting up camera callbacks, but this happens >> > > > at >> > the >> > > > wrong point, my next thought would be to overload the draw >> > > > traversal. >> > > > >> > > > Any suggestions would be welcomed, thank you in advance. >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > --Jason Baurick >> > > > >> > > > ___ >> > > > osg-users mailing list >> > > > osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org >> > > > >> > >> > http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listi
Re: [osg-users] Performing non-rendering actions between renderbins
Hi Robert, Ideally I would do this at a higher level, I am just new to OSG in general, so I took the first path I found that would do what I needed. Setup is actually done above the CompositeViewer in my prototype and I would like to do the entire process at that level. I was looking at making a CompositedViewer class that handled all the details I do outside the existing viewer structure. Thanks for the pointer on renderstages/renderbins. I will begin looking at that latter today and see what I can do with them. - Jason On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:57 AM, Robert Osfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Jason, > > Compositing is topic that I haven't personally tackled yet, but am > very curious about it, and something I something that osgViewer could > probably evolve to help out with it. I say evolve as it doesn't have > an explicit support for it right now, but in terms of functionality > compositing is a high level feature that depends upon the hardware > setup rather than the scene itself, so is natural to implement it at > the higher level of the viewer, rather than embedded in the scene > graph. It would be nice to have composite support as a configurable > feature of osgViewer just like management of multiple graphics > context/displays. > > To implement what you need right now it might well be best to > modify/subclass osgUtil::RenderStage/RenderBin to provide the hooks > you require as its the object in the rendering backend that does the > rendering. I'm open to see required changes merged into the core > OSG, with a view to see compositing support make its way into a core > feature of osgViewer. > > Robert. > > On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Jason Baurick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Robert, > > > > I'm implementing various sort-last compositing methods using OSG. For > depth > > compositing you need to composite after the opaque data has been rendered > > but before the transparent data has been rendered. Compositing is > actually > > done with buffer transfers Read Pixels, Texture Images, PBOs, etc... > > > > Since each view has to do different work I just added Geodes with custom > > drawables to the scene graph which do the required GL action. The > problem > > with this method is I'm adding at least one node for each GPU I want to > work > > with, in some sort-last cases multiple nodes per GPU. This is not a > clean > > implementation in my opinion. So I am looking for other ideas on how I > can > > insert operations in-between rendering bins. > > > > - Jason > > > > > > On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 2:59 AM, Robert Osfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > wrote: > > > Hi Jason, > > > > > > What do types of operations are you looking to do? > > > > > > Robert. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Jason Baurick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I recently started working with OSG and I have what is hopefully a > > simple > > > > question. I have a composite viewer with two views, I want to > perform > > an > > > > action on the buffers in each view between the opaque rendering and > the > > > > transparent rendering, each view needs to perform a different action. > > > > Currently to make this work I added two nodes to my scene graph, > culled > > out > > > > one for each view and then stuck them in a renderbin between the > opaque > > and > > > > transparent bins. So I guess what I'm asking is if there is a > simpler > > way > > > > to do this? I tried setting up camera callbacks, but this happens at > > the > > > > wrong point, my next thought would be to overload the draw traversal. > > > > > > > > Any suggestions would be welcomed, thank you in advance. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > --Jason Baurick > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > osg-users mailing list > > > > osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org > > > > > > > http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > osg-users mailing list > > > osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org > > > > http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > --Jason Baurick > > > > ___ > > osg-users mailing list > > osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org > > > http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org > > > > > ___ > osg-users mailing list > osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org > http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org > -- --Jason Baurick ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Performing non-rendering actions between renderbins
Hi Jason, Compositing is topic that I haven't personally tackled yet, but am very curious about it, and something I something that osgViewer could probably evolve to help out with it. I say evolve as it doesn't have an explicit support for it right now, but in terms of functionality compositing is a high level feature that depends upon the hardware setup rather than the scene itself, so is natural to implement it at the higher level of the viewer, rather than embedded in the scene graph. It would be nice to have composite support as a configurable feature of osgViewer just like management of multiple graphics context/displays. To implement what you need right now it might well be best to modify/subclass osgUtil::RenderStage/RenderBin to provide the hooks you require as its the object in the rendering backend that does the rendering. I'm open to see required changes merged into the core OSG, with a view to see compositing support make its way into a core feature of osgViewer. Robert. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Jason Baurick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Robert, > > I'm implementing various sort-last compositing methods using OSG. For depth > compositing you need to composite after the opaque data has been rendered > but before the transparent data has been rendered. Compositing is actually > done with buffer transfers Read Pixels, Texture Images, PBOs, etc... > > Since each view has to do different work I just added Geodes with custom > drawables to the scene graph which do the required GL action. The problem > with this method is I'm adding at least one node for each GPU I want to work > with, in some sort-last cases multiple nodes per GPU. This is not a clean > implementation in my opinion. So I am looking for other ideas on how I can > insert operations in-between rendering bins. > > - Jason > > > On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 2:59 AM, Robert Osfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Hi Jason, > > > > What do types of operations are you looking to do? > > > > Robert. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Jason Baurick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I recently started working with OSG and I have what is hopefully a > simple > > > question. I have a composite viewer with two views, I want to perform > an > > > action on the buffers in each view between the opaque rendering and the > > > transparent rendering, each view needs to perform a different action. > > > Currently to make this work I added two nodes to my scene graph, culled > out > > > one for each view and then stuck them in a renderbin between the opaque > and > > > transparent bins. So I guess what I'm asking is if there is a simpler > way > > > to do this? I tried setting up camera callbacks, but this happens at > the > > > wrong point, my next thought would be to overload the draw traversal. > > > > > > Any suggestions would be welcomed, thank you in advance. > > > > > > -- > > > --Jason Baurick > > > > > > ___ > > > osg-users mailing list > > > osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org > > > > http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org > > > > > > > > ___ > > osg-users mailing list > > osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org > > http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org > > > > > > -- > --Jason Baurick > > ___ > osg-users mailing list > osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org > http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org > > ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Performing non-rendering actions between renderbins
Hi Robert, I'm implementing various sort-last compositing methods using OSG. For depth compositing you need to composite after the opaque data has been rendered but before the transparent data has been rendered. Compositing is actually done with buffer transfers Read Pixels, Texture Images, PBOs, etc... Since each view has to do different work I just added Geodes with custom drawables to the scene graph which do the required GL action. The problem with this method is I'm adding at least one node for each GPU I want to work with, in some sort-last cases multiple nodes per GPU. This is not a clean implementation in my opinion. So I am looking for other ideas on how I can insert operations in-between rendering bins. - Jason On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 2:59 AM, Robert Osfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Jason, > > What do types of operations are you looking to do? > > Robert. > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Jason Baurick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I recently started working with OSG and I have what is hopefully a > simple > > question. I have a composite viewer with two views, I want to perform > an > > action on the buffers in each view between the opaque rendering and the > > transparent rendering, each view needs to perform a different action. > > Currently to make this work I added two nodes to my scene graph, culled > out > > one for each view and then stuck them in a renderbin between the opaque > and > > transparent bins. So I guess what I'm asking is if there is a simpler > way > > to do this? I tried setting up camera callbacks, but this happens at > the > > wrong point, my next thought would be to overload the draw traversal. > > > > Any suggestions would be welcomed, thank you in advance. > > > > -- > > --Jason Baurick > > > > ___ > > osg-users mailing list > > osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org > > > http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org > > > > > ___ > osg-users mailing list > osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org > http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org > -- --Jason Baurick ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Performing non-rendering actions between renderbins
Hi Jason, What do types of operations are you looking to do? Robert. On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Jason Baurick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > I recently started working with OSG and I have what is hopefully a simple > question. I have a composite viewer with two views, I want to perform an > action on the buffers in each view between the opaque rendering and the > transparent rendering, each view needs to perform a different action. > Currently to make this work I added two nodes to my scene graph, culled out > one for each view and then stuck them in a renderbin between the opaque and > transparent bins. So I guess what I'm asking is if there is a simpler way > to do this? I tried setting up camera callbacks, but this happens at the > wrong point, my next thought would be to overload the draw traversal. > > Any suggestions would be welcomed, thank you in advance. > > -- > --Jason Baurick > > ___ > osg-users mailing list > osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org > http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org > > ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
[osg-users] Performing non-rendering actions between renderbins
Hi, I recently started working with OSG and I have what is hopefully a simple question. I have a composite viewer with two views, I want to perform an action on the buffers in each view between the opaque rendering and the transparent rendering, each view needs to perform a different action. Currently to make this work I added two nodes to my scene graph, culled out one for each view and then stuck them in a renderbin between the opaque and transparent bins. So I guess what I'm asking is if there is a simpler way to do this? I tried setting up camera callbacks, but this happens at the wrong point, my next thought would be to overload the draw traversal. Any suggestions would be welcomed, thank you in advance. -- --Jason Baurick ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
