Re: [osg-users] terrain database popping...
Hi Alejandro, libmini contains some addons for the display of terrain as stand-alone (for example the libmini viewer). For an integration into osg most of that stuff is of course not needed, because osg has its own loader etc. What needs to be integrated within osg is just the very core of libMini, which is called the ministub. It encapsulates the main algorithm that produces a reduced triangle mesh from a height field. It doesn't even need OpenGL as a dependency, since the generated geometry is passed to the calling framework via a call-back mechanism. In the case of osg the call back would append to a osg::vertex_array, that is a double (front and back) vertex buffer. The rest would be handled by osg like texturing etc. The draw implementation of osgTerrain is a particularly nice place to fit that in, because it already provides the necessary height field and texture. There is an adaptor missing though that closes the cracks with adjacent tiles. libMini supports that by just passing pointers to the four adjacent tiles. I'd be glad to provide the necessary information (and potential modifications) to make that work with osg. Cheers, Stefan On Apr 17, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Alejandro Aguilar Sierra wrote: Hi Stefan, I played with libmini some time ago. I didn't studied the code deeply, but I think some things are already in OSG, like the viewer. I don't have too much time right now, but with the proper insight, I may try to do it. Regards, -- A. On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 4:32 AM, Stefan Roettger ste...@stereofx.org wrote: On Apr 15, 2009, at 11:44 PM, Tueller, Shayne R Civ USAF AFMC 519 SMXS/MXDEC wrote: I think it would be good to fold libmini (or something equivalent) into OSG. That way you can use the databases built with VPB. I don't know much about VTP but using VPB databases are nice... Yes. I have been thinking for almost 2 years now about folding libMini into OSG, but so far did not have the necessary time to do it. So it got delayed and delayed... If someone is volunteering though, I'd be happy to give the necessary insight into libMini. Cheers, Stefan ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] terrain database popping...
Stefan Roettger wrote: Hi Alejandro, libmini contains some addons for the display of terrain as stand-alone (for example the libmini viewer). For an integration into osg most of that stuff is of course not needed, because osg has its own loader etc. What needs to be integrated within osg is just the very core of libMini, which is called the ministub. It encapsulates the main algorithm that produces a reduced triangle mesh from a height field. It doesn't even need OpenGL as a dependency, since the generated geometry is passed to the calling framework via a call-back mechanism. In the case of osg the call back would append to a osg::vertex_array, that is a double (front and back) vertex buffer. The rest would be handled by osg like texturing etc. The draw implementation of osgTerrain is a particularly nice place to fit that in, because it already provides the necessary height field and texture. There is an adaptor missing though that closes the cracks with adjacent tiles. libMini supports that by just passing pointers to the four adjacent tiles. I'd be glad to provide the necessary information (and potential modifications) to make that work with osg. Cheers, Stefan On Apr 17, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Alejandro Aguilar Sierra wrote: Hi Stefan, I played with libmini some time ago. I didn't studied the code deeply, but I think some things are already in OSG, like the viewer. I don't have too much time right now, but with the proper insight, I may try to do it. Regards, -- A. On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 4:32 AM, Stefan Roettger wrote: On Apr 15, 2009, at 11:44 PM, Tueller, Shayne R Civ USAF AFMC 519 SMXS/MXDEC wrote: I think it would be good to fold libmini (or something equivalent) into OSG. That way you can use the databases built with VPB. I don't know much about VTP but using VPB databases are nice... Yes. I have been thinking for almost 2 years now about folding libMini into OSG, but so far did not have the necessary time to do it. So it got delayed and delayed... If someone is volunteering though, I'd be happy to give the necessary insight into libMini. Cheers, Stefan ___ osg-users mailing list http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org -- Post generated by Mail2Forum Hi Stefan, I am also interested in the necessary information (and potential modifications) to make libMini work with osg. Thanks, Tim -- Read this topic online here: http://forum.openscenegraph.org/viewtopic.php?p=10605#10605 ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] terrain database popping...
Hi Shayne, How much popping you'll see depends upon your database, database pager configuration and hardware. To reduce popping you basically want the higher level of details to pop in sooner so the transition happens with a smaller pixel shift. You have provided any info about your specific database setup/OSG version/hardware target etc. so I can't really add much more. W.r.t fade lod, this might be the way forward, but it would require creating a new node in the LOD to support it. It would be a useful feature to have in the OSG, and these days with frame buffer object being readily available it's should certainly be easier now to implement it than ever before. How to go about it is a long topic of conservation though so I won't dive into it right now. W.r.t looking at alternative terrain systems, such as libmini, this might offer a solution, but it will only deal with the terrain not the extra cultral information that might be in your scene. It'd also require you to rebuild your databases. W.r.t VirtualTerrainProject, unless it now start fully support paged databases and double matrices I would suggest you give it a miss as it'll complicate your application a lot whilst curtailing the scalability of the OSG. Robert. On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Tueller, Shayne R Civ USAF AFMC 519 SMXS/MXDEC shayne.tuel...@hill.af.mil wrote: Just a quick question for the experts out there… When I’m flying through my terrain database, I’m seeing a lot of “popping” as the database pager brings in higher LODs of terrain. My question is, is there a way to minimize this popping? Is there any geomorphing support in the way OSG pages in the terrain? If there’s no geomorphing support to smooth out the LOD transitions across several rendering frames, that would be a nice feature to have in a future release…J Thanks in advance… -Shayne ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] terrain database popping...
Hi all, what could be interesting to would be the integration of automatic vegetation placement like the work done in Delta3D: http://www.movesinstitute.org/~wdwells/4181/index.html I'll be glad if can give any help on that part... So far I've never succeed in adding a vector layer mapped to an osgTerrain using osgdem (I can open each separately but not combine both). But it was done easily with osggis... I have juste started to look at it and it looks also impressive... http://wush.net/trac/osggis Regards, Pierre. Le vendredi 17 avril 2009 à 10:40 -0500, Alejandro Aguilar Sierra a écrit : Hi Stefan, I played with libmini some time ago. I didn't studied the code deeply, but I think some things are already in OSG, like the viewer. I don't have too much time right now, but with the proper insight, I may try to do it. Regards, -- A. On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 4:32 AM, Stefan Roettger ste...@stereofx.org wrote: On Apr 15, 2009, at 11:44 PM, Tueller, Shayne R Civ USAF AFMC 519 SMXS/MXDEC wrote: I think it would be good to fold libmini (or something equivalent) into OSG. That way you can use the databases built with VPB. I don't know much about VTP but using VPB databases are nice... Yes. I have been thinking for almost 2 years now about folding libMini into OSG, but so far did not have the necessary time to do it. So it got delayed and delayed... If someone is volunteering though, I'd be happy to give the necessary insight into libMini. Cheers, Stefan ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org Pierre BOURDIN I.M.E.R.I.R. Av. Pascot BP 90443 66004 PERPIGNAN tél: 04 68 56 84 95 fax: 04 68 55 03 86 email: bour...@imerir.com ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] terrain database popping...
Hi Stefan, I played with libmini some time ago. I didn't studied the code deeply, but I think some things are already in OSG, like the viewer. I don't have too much time right now, but with the proper insight, I may try to do it. Regards, -- A. On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 4:32 AM, Stefan Roettger ste...@stereofx.org wrote: On Apr 15, 2009, at 11:44 PM, Tueller, Shayne R Civ USAF AFMC 519 SMXS/MXDEC wrote: I think it would be good to fold libmini (or something equivalent) into OSG. That way you can use the databases built with VPB. I don't know much about VTP but using VPB databases are nice... Yes. I have been thinking for almost 2 years now about folding libMini into OSG, but so far did not have the necessary time to do it. So it got delayed and delayed... If someone is volunteering though, I'd be happy to give the necessary insight into libMini. Cheers, Stefan ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] terrain database popping...
On Apr 15, 2009, at 11:44 PM, Tueller, Shayne R Civ USAF AFMC 519 SMXS/ MXDEC wrote: I think it would be good to fold libmini (or something equivalent) into OSG. That way you can use the databases built with VPB. I don't know much about VTP but using VPB databases are nice... Yes. I have been thinking for almost 2 years now about folding libMini into OSG, but so far did not have the necessary time to do it. So it got delayed and delayed... If someone is volunteering though, I'd be happy to give the necessary insight into libMini. Cheers, Stefan ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] terrain database popping...
Hi, Chris 'Xenon' Hanson wrote: Tueller, Shayne R Civ USAF AFMC 519 SMXS/MXDEC wrote: Thanks for the input. I'm somewhat familiar with VTP but not with libmini. I'll poke around to get more info... Libmini is one of the lower-level APIs VTP uses. VTP is certainly a good base to build a geosimulation app on, depending on your requirements. You can try to stick libmini into plain OSG as well, but VTP already has done the integration for you. I think this is not entirely true. I believe they have integrated it into VTP but not with OSG. There was a VTP thread about this some time ago. good luck Raymond -Shayne ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] terrain database popping...
Raymond de Vries wrote: geosimulation app on, depending on your requirements. You can try to stick libmini into plain OSG as well, but VTP already has done the integration for you. I think this is not entirely true. I believe they have integrated it into VTP but not with OSG. There was a VTP thread about this some time ago. Right. I phrased that poorly. Libmini is integrated into VTP, but not into OSG. Libmini is a purely OpenGL piece of code, and would require integration into OSG. Most people facing this prospect just go with VTP to get the whole enchilada. good luck Raymond -- Chris 'Xenon' Hanson, omo sanza lettere Xenon AlphaPixel.com PixelSense Landsat processing now available! http://www.alphapixel.com/demos/ There is no Truth. There is only Perception. To Perceive is to Exist. - Xen ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] terrain database popping...
I think it would be good to fold libmini (or something equivalent) into OSG. That way you can use the databases built with VPB. I don't know much about VTP but using VPB databases are nice... -Shayne -Original Message- From: osg-users-boun...@lists.openscenegraph.org [mailto:osg-users-boun...@lists.openscenegraph.org] On Behalf Of Chris 'Xenon' Hanson Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:09 AM To: OpenSceneGraph Users Subject: Re: [osg-users] terrain database popping... Raymond de Vries wrote: geosimulation app on, depending on your requirements. You can try to stick libmini into plain OSG as well, but VTP already has done the integration for you. I think this is not entirely true. I believe they have integrated it into VTP but not with OSG. There was a VTP thread about this some time ago. Right. I phrased that poorly. Libmini is integrated into VTP, but not into OSG. Libmini is a purely OpenGL piece of code, and would require integration into OSG. Most people facing this prospect just go with VTP to get the whole enchilada. good luck Raymond -- Chris 'Xenon' Hanson, omo sanza lettere Xenon AlphaPixel.com PixelSense Landsat processing now available! http://www.alphapixel.com/demos/ There is no Truth. There is only Perception. To Perceive is to Exist. - Xen ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] terrain database popping...
Tueller, Shayne R Civ USAF AFMC 519 SMXS/MXDEC wrote: Just a quick question for the experts out there… When I’m flying through my terrain database, I’m seeing a lot of “popping” as the database pager brings in higher LODs of terrain. My question is, is there a way to minimize this popping? Is there any geomorphing support in the way OSG pages in the terrain? If there’s no geomorphing support to smooth out the LOD transitions across several rendering frames, that would be a nice feature to have in a future release…J The basic LOD/PagedLOD doesn't do any magic to conceal the transition. There was some work to create a FadeLOD years ago: http://archive.netbsd.se/?ml=openscenegraph-usersa=2005-02t=1628815 But I'm not sure where it stands. I couldn't find FadeLOD last time I looked. If you want geomorphing, you should consider using a library like libmini or VTP (which can use libmini and supplies other nice frills too). http://vterrain.org -- Chris 'Xenon' Hanson, omo sanza lettere Xenon AlphaPixel.com PixelSense Landsat processing now available! http://www.alphapixel.com/demos/ There is no Truth. There is only Perception. To Perceive is to Exist. - Xen ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] terrain database popping...
Thanks for the input. I'm somewhat familiar with VTP but not with libmini. I'll poke around to get more info... -Shayne -Original Message- From: osg-users-boun...@lists.openscenegraph.org [mailto:osg-users-boun...@lists.openscenegraph.org] On Behalf Of Chris 'Xenon' Hanson Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 11:16 AM To: OpenSceneGraph Users Subject: Re: [osg-users] terrain database popping... Tueller, Shayne R Civ USAF AFMC 519 SMXS/MXDEC wrote: Just a quick question for the experts out there… When I’m flying through my terrain database, I’m seeing a lot of “popping” as the database pager brings in higher LODs of terrain. My question is, is there a way to minimize this popping? Is there any geomorphing support in the way OSG pages in the terrain? If there’s no geomorphing support to smooth out the LOD transitions across several rendering frames, that would be a nice feature to have in a future release…J The basic LOD/PagedLOD doesn't do any magic to conceal the transition. There was some work to create a FadeLOD years ago: http://archive.netbsd.se/?ml=openscenegraph-usersa=2005-02t=1628815 But I'm not sure where it stands. I couldn't find FadeLOD last time I looked. If you want geomorphing, you should consider using a library like libmini or VTP (which can use libmini and supplies other nice frills too). http://vterrain.org -- Chris 'Xenon' Hanson, omo sanza lettere Xenon AlphaPixel.com PixelSense Landsat processing now available! http://www.alphapixel.com/demos/ There is no Truth. There is only Perception. To Perceive is to Exist. - Xen ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] terrain database popping...
Tueller, Shayne R Civ USAF AFMC 519 SMXS/MXDEC wrote: Thanks for the input. I'm somewhat familiar with VTP but not with libmini. I'll poke around to get more info... Libmini is one of the lower-level APIs VTP uses. VTP is certainly a good base to build a geosimulation app on, depending on your requirements. You can try to stick libmini into plain OSG as well, but VTP already has done the integration for you. -Shayne -- Chris 'Xenon' Hanson, omo sanza lettere Xenon AlphaPixel.com PixelSense Landsat processing now available! http://www.alphapixel.com/demos/ There is no Truth. There is only Perception. To Perceive is to Exist. - Xen ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
