RE: azure in australia

[Greg Willis]

That's correct -the elements are all now deployed for Australian sign-ups to 
the Windows Azure Platform.

A good starting point to get details and sign-up for trial offers and paid 
Azure accounts is here:
http://www.windowsazure.com/offers

MSDN Subscriber benefits are summarised here:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-au/subscriptions/ee461076.aspx

Looking forward to seeing what you build and deploy!

Cheers,
Greg Willis
Email: gwil...@microsoft.com<mailto:gwil...@microsoft.com>

From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Nick Randolph
Sent: Monday, 12 April 2010 10:46 PM
To: ozAzure
Subject: RE: azure in australia

This looks to be resolved now afaik - I signed up for an introductory account 
today and it all seems operational.

Nick Randolph | Built To Roam | Microsoft MVP - Device Application Development 
| +61 412 413 425
The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the 
intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email 
in any way. Built To Roam does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or 
attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may 
not reflect the views or opinions of Built To Roam.

From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Philip Richardson
Sent: Saturday, 10 April 2010 6:22 PM
To: ozAzure
Subject: Re: azure in australia

MSFT loves the 'launch' vs 'availability'.

Azure is launched here. You just can't buy it.

Phil
On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 5:30 PM, ross 
mailto:r...@perenni.com.au>> wrote:
Anyone tried to buy an azure subscription in Australia yet?  I can't.

It is stating it will be made available on 9 April, which has passed
now, even in the US.
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RE: azure in australia

[Nick Randolph]

This looks to be resolved now afaik - I signed up for an introductory account 
today and it all seems operational.

Nick Randolph | Built To Roam | Microsoft MVP - Device Application Development 
| +61 412 413 425
The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the 
intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email 
in any way. Built To Roam does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or 
attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may 
not reflect the views or opinions of Built To Roam.

From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Philip Richardson
Sent: Saturday, 10 April 2010 6:22 PM
To: ozAzure
Subject: Re: azure in australia

MSFT loves the 'launch' vs 'availability'.

Azure is launched here. You just can't buy it.

Phil
On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 5:30 PM, ross 
mailto:r...@perenni.com.au>> wrote:
Anyone tried to buy an azure subscription in Australia yet?  I can't.

It is stating it will be made available on 9 April, which has passed
now, even in the US.
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Re: azure in australia

[Philip Richardson]

MSFT loves the 'launch' vs 'availability'.

Azure is launched here. You just can't buy it.

Phil

On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 5:30 PM, ross  wrote:

> Anyone tried to buy an azure subscription in Australia yet?  I can't.
>
> It is stating it will be made available on 9 April, which has passed
> now, even in the US.
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RE: azure in australia

[Greg Willis]

The relevant team are in the process of bringing the wave 2 countries billing 
online and I will update the list when Australia is live for sign-ups in the 
coming days.

Thanks,
Greg Willis

-Original Message-
From: ross 
Sent: Saturday, 10 April 2010 5:31 PM
To: ozAzure 
Subject: azure in australia


Anyone tried to buy an azure subscription in Australia yet?  I can't.

It is stating it will be made available on 9 April, which has passed
now, even in the US.
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azure in australia

[ross]

Anyone tried to buy an azure subscription in Australia yet?  I can't.

It is stating it will be made available on 9 April, which has passed
now, even in the US.
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RE: Azure in Australia

[Carl . Scarlett]

Just putting my hand up to say I’m listening.  I haven’t tinkered with
Azure yet, but it’s definitely on the cards.

 

From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Greg Willis

Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 1:01 PM
To: ozAzure 
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

 

Great to see some lively discussion starting up here.  If I can see
evidence there is more than 3 of us on this list I'll definitely ask a
few more folk from the Windows Azure and SQL Azure product teams to
sign-up for good measure :-)

 

I think it's fair to say that SQL Azure is still optimized for some
scenarios (web, smaller application and ISV workloads) over others right
now.   I think it's also fair to say they are adding in functionality at
a decent rate (50GB size instances coming, spatial etc).   There is
still also a lot I'd like to see added in to open up more scenarios.

 

I have certainly worked with few product teams that could claim to be
more feedback focused and driven than the Windows Azure and SQL Azure
teams - so please use this site (and lists like this one) and let them
know what you think is lacking: http://www.mygreatsqlazureidea.com 

 

Darren - 235 of your closest friends have currently voted for full-text
search support.  

 

The product planning guys in the teams look straight to these sites as
one key pulse of what people want to see next / the most.

 

There is also the same for Windows Azure:
http://mygreatwindowsazureidea.com (and "Dalllas', Windows Azure
platform AppFabric etc)

 

Cheers,

Greg Willis

 



From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com
[ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] on behalf of Darren Neimke
[darren.nei...@live.com]
Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 3:26 PM
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

My "beefs"... personally, there are parts of the product that I would
like to see improved at a rate that is faster than the current rate.
Service Management (inc. monitoring and reporting) is an example of such
an area.   

 

There should be a recognition that the current maturity level of the
product "is what it is" and that as such, as a consumer of such a
service you can, from time to time, experience frustrations in using
such a service:  

 

http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlazure/archive/2010/03/22/9982979.aspx

 

I understand that, to mature such a product requires an effort in terms
of not only software and systems development, but also importantly in
marketing, documentation, and support services as well.  And to raise
the maturity level from where it currently sits will take some time.

 

It is some of these issues - and through concentrated use of the service
and its features - that I have experienced some dissatisfaction.

 

Our mileage may vary! :-)

 



Kind Regards,
 
Darren Neimke
darren.nei...@live.com 
http://2010wave.blogspot.com  






From: steven.n...@readify.net
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:14:50 -0700
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

I totally agree! I’m just asking.. what are your beefs?

One of mine is that SQL Azure is not so much designed for scale out
where the other services are.

Its almost like SQL Azure is after a completely different market of
consumer, which might be true.

 

Steven Nagy
Readify | Senior Developer

M: +61 404 044 513 | E: steven.n...@readify.net | B: azure.snagy.name
<http://azure.snagy.name/> 

 

From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke
Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 2:03 PM
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

 

>>  Greg, do you think we can get some involvement from them here?

More engagement is always a good thing - especially within AU. 

 

And in re-reading your opening couple of sentences there Steve (heck...
I thought you were a blue badge for a second there mate! :)) let's keep
an open mind about the quality of the system that we are experiencing.
Let's not be afraid to make critical assessments as to the state of
play.  And let's all play together for the betterment of the product.

 

It's in nobody's interest - especially a product evangelist's - for us
to be shills and simply pretend that everything is fine.

 

At the end of the day I'd ask myself this... how much of my own money
(mine or my businesses) am I likely to put on the table for Azure.  And
what needs to improve before that amount might be increased.

 


Kind Regards,
 
Darren Neimke
darren.nei...@live.com 
http://2010wave.blogspot.com  





From: steven.n...@readify.net
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:40:21 -0700
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

Hi Darren,

 

There are many ways in which to supply feedback to the team. Currently
you can ‘request features’ and the team also

RE: Azure in Australia

[Darren Neimke]

Free beer is not what I'm after (although, if you're offering... :))  And it's 
not even hosting silly little MVC apps that I care about either - after all, if 
you want to learn how to run MVC apps in the cloud, the DevFabric is just fine. 
 But there are a range of enterprise services that are more difficult to 
experiment with if all you have is a local machine running DevFabric - for 
these things I would love to have a free (yes, there you go, I said it) sandbox 
in the cloud to play with.
Maybe 3 months ago when I still had an MSDN subscription I might not have 
argued so much on this side of the fence; who knows? 


Kind Regards, Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com http://2010wave.blogspot.com  



Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 10:21:31 +1000
Subject: Re: Azure in Australia
From: crai...@gmail.com
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

Not free beer, but cheap beer. Once you have them drunk on cheap beer they will 
keep in drinking and go back to their favourite beer. 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 10:18 AM, ross  wrote:

So the question is, should cloud providers be giving away 'beer' for free?

  
_
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
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Re: Azure in Australia

[Craig van Nieuwkerk]

Not free beer, but cheap beer. Once you have them drunk on cheap beer they
will keep in drinking and go back to their favourite beer.

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 10:18 AM, ross  wrote:

> So the question is, should cloud providers be giving away 'beer' for free?
>
>
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Re: Azure in Australia

[ross]

So the question is, should cloud providers be giving away 'beer' for free?

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Nick Hodge  wrote:

>
>
> On 6 April 2010 09:28, John OBrien  wrote:
>
> Maybe it should have been titled “Why Gen-Y won’t use Azure” ?
>
> Will Microsoft lose touch with the next generation if they can’t provided
> an answer for the Gen-Y’s “It is my right to have everything now and for
> free” ?
>
> An interesting question, John
>
> Having spoken to people in the open source world, where the said
> expectation is “free” – this free does not extend to services. These devs
> are already working on Amazon, where there are charges for the use of the
> service. Not the software.
>
> Welcome to a world where non .NET people are looking at Azure.
>
> For Microsoft’s part, there needs to be better toolage etc (maybe VM
> support?
> http://blogs.msdn.com/usisvde/archive/2010/03/29/vm-support-in-windows-azure.aspx
> )
>
>
>
>
> [image: Description: Nhodge] 
>
> *Nick Hodge*
>
> *Professional Geek *, 
> Microsoft
>
> Email:  nho...@microsoft.com
>
> Messenger:  hodgen...@hotmail.com
>
> Phone:  +61 417 212 181 / +61 2 9870 2695
>
> *Twitter:@nickhodge 
> http://twitter.com/nickhodge
> *
>
> Personal:   http://www.nickhodge.com/
>
> Microsoft:  http://blogs.msdn.com/nickhodge/
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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RE: Azure in Australia

[Nick Hodge]

On 6 April 2010 09:28, John OBrien 
mailto:j...@soulsolutions.com.au>> wrote:
Maybe it should have been titled “Why Gen-Y won’t use Azure” ?
Will Microsoft lose touch with the next generation if they can’t provided an 
answer for the Gen-Y’s “It is my right to have everything now and for free” ?
An interesting question, John

Having spoken to people in the open source world, where the said expectation is 
“free” – this free does not extend to services. These devs are already working 
on Amazon, where there are charges for the use of the service. Not the software.

Welcome to a world where non .NET people are looking at Azure.

For Microsoft’s part, there needs to be better toolage etc (maybe VM support? 
http://blogs.msdn.com/usisvde/archive/2010/03/29/vm-support-in-windows-azure.aspx)



[Description: Nhodge]
Nick Hodge
Professional Geek, 
Microsoft
Email:  nho...@microsoft.com
Messenger:  hodgen...@hotmail.com
Phone:  +61 417 212 181 / +61 2 9870 2695
Twitter:@nickhodge 
http://twitter.com/nickhodge
Personal:   http://www.nickhodge.com/
Microsoft:  http://blogs.msdn.com/nickhodge/


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Re: Azure in Australia

[Philip Richardson]

Another option might be to use 'spot pricing' for MSDN subscribers. Amazon's
model here is to offer different prices while machines are not in demand.
Perhaps MS could do the same for MSDN subs. You get your base 25 hrs a month
for dev (ie. turn it off while you aren't dev'ing) and then for more hours
there is a discounted spot rate. A fixed pool of machines go in for the MSDN
spot market (thereby helping MSFT's costs)  etc etc etc.

Phil

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 9:57 AM, David Connors  wrote:

> On 6 April 2010 09:28, John OBrien  wrote:
>
>>  Maybe it should have been titled “Why Gen-Y won’t use Azure” ?
>>
>> Will Microsoft lose touch with the next generation if they can’t provided
>> an answer for the Gen-Y’s “It is my right to have everything now and for
>> free” ?
>>
> I literally LOL'd when I read that.
>
>>  Development = local fabric for free, Test the platform, 30 day trial.
>> More extensive production play, MSDN. Production system, pay for it.
>>
> I do think there is a legitimate argument for including something of a
> permanent instance as a part of MSDN  here>. Perhaps as a heavily discounted "Azure Development Only Instance" add
> on, only available to subscribers over a certain level? Maybe they could
> restrict it so the instances are only available from a specified /24 subnet
> or small number of fixed IPs that you nominate as a part of the discount
> 'deal'?
>
> That would let you learn and play with Azure on a 24x365 basis if you had a
> need to muck around (but would not meet the OP's 'production' need). Then
> again, if you want to learn then the local fabric is fine.
>
> --
> David Connors (da...@codify.com)
> Software Engineer
> Codify Pty Ltd - www.codify.com
> Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417
> 189 363
> V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors
> Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact
>
>
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Re: Azure in Australia

[David Connors]

On 6 April 2010 09:28, John OBrien  wrote:

>  Maybe it should have been titled “Why Gen-Y won’t use Azure” ?
>
> Will Microsoft lose touch with the next generation if they can’t provided
> an answer for the Gen-Y’s “It is my right to have everything now and for
> free” ?
>
I literally LOL'd when I read that.

>  Development = local fabric for free, Test the platform, 30 day trial.
> More extensive production play, MSDN. Production system, pay for it.
>
I do think there is a legitimate argument for including something of a
permanent instance as a part of MSDN . Perhaps as a heavily discounted "Azure Development Only Instance" add
on, only available to subscribers over a certain level? Maybe they could
restrict it so the instances are only available from a specified /24 subnet
or small number of fixed IPs that you nominate as a part of the discount
'deal'?

That would let you learn and play with Azure on a 24x365 basis if you had a
need to muck around (but would not meet the OP's 'production' need). Then
again, if you want to learn then the local fabric is fine.

-- 
David Connors (da...@codify.com)
Software Engineer
Codify Pty Ltd - www.codify.com
Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417
189 363
V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors
Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact
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RE: Azure in Australia

[Vishwanath Humpy]

Firstly, citing this article is 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_verecundiam

And the article itself has numerous logical fallacies :

1.  He says he can't learn Azure due to the prohibitive pricing.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_%28logic%29.  This is like saying you 
can't learn ASP.NET because Microsoft don't provide a free hosting platform 
that can serve 8000+ hits a month.

2.  By using foul language he is demonstating 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_hominem.

3.  "If you’re in the audience for this blog – Microsoft have made it clear 
that Windows Azure is not for you."  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi

4.  "I’m Not The Only One" - 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_verecundiam

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RE: Azure in Australia

[John OBrien]

Maybe it should have been titled “Why Gen-Y won’t use Azure” ? 

Will Microsoft lose touch with the next generation if they can’t provided an 
answer for the Gen-Y’s “It is my right to have everything now and for free” ?

 

Development = local fabric for free, Test the platform, 30 day trial. More 
extensive production play, MSDN. Production system, pay for it.

 

It is a little sad that the article doesn’t provide any solutions, only 
complaints. Maybe a good integrated partnership with an ad provider or paid 
membership system would allow the minimal cost of a single azure instance to be 
offset? Maybe there is a market for a single azure instance to host multiple 
smaller sites? These both could be great partner opportunities to explore. But 
would either have swayed the final hosting decision in this case?

 

I know I had about 24 roles working away on projects during the ctp period of 
azure for free, if I had to decide between Microsoft spending money on giving 
away free access for 1000’s of tiny test apps or building out better enterprise 
management tools and lowering the overall price, it’s a no brainer.

 

Looking forward to the Australian go live this week.

 

John.

 

From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke
Sent: Tuesday, 6 April 2010 7:18 AM
To: ozAzure
Subject: Re: Azure in Australia

 

Here's a post by Tatham that highlights the cost issue:

 


http://blog.tatham.oddie.com.au/2010/04/05/why-windows-azure-is-not-worth-investing-in

 

I'm not a MS beancounter, and so I'm not sure how they are going to do it... 
but if they are going to attract devs to their platform, they will need to find 
a way to open it up for development purposes because all of what Tatham has 
written in his article is extremely valid.  I've been in the same place as 
Tatham - having to make that decision about where to host my small service - 
and ultimately at that point I have baulked and turned away from Azure.

 

This is in part, why I've deduced that Azure is an enterprise only product - 
and why I'm so tough about it lacking certain enterprise features.

 

 

 

 

Kind Regards,
 
Darren Neimke
http://twitter.com/digory 
darren.nei...@live.com 
mob: 0439 855 046

 

From: Greg Willis <mailto:gwil...@microsoft.com>  

Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 2:31 PM

To: ozAzure <mailto:ozazure@lists.codify.com>  

Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

 

Great to see some lively discussion starting up here.  If I can see evidence 
there is more than 3 of us on this list I'll definitely ask a few more folk 
from the Windows Azure and SQL Azure product teams to sign-up for good measure 
:-)

 

I think it's fair to say that SQL Azure is still optimized for some scenarios 
(web, smaller application and ISV workloads) over others right now.   I think 
it's also fair to say they are adding in functionality at a decent rate (50GB 
size instances coming, spatial etc).   There is still also a lot I'd like to 
see added in to open up more scenarios.

 

I have certainly worked with few product teams that could claim to be more 
feedback focused and driven than the Windows Azure and SQL Azure teams - so 
please use this site (and lists like this one) and let them know what you think 
is lacking: http://www.mygreatsqlazureidea.com 

 

Darren - 235 of your closest friends have currently voted for full-text search 
support.  

 

The product planning guys in the teams look straight to these sites as one key 
pulse of what people want to see next / the most.

 

There is also the same for Windows Azure: http://mygreatwindowsazureidea.com 
(and "Dalllas', Windows Azure platform AppFabric etc)

 

Cheers,

Greg Willis

 

  _  

From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com [ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] on 
behalf of Darren Neimke [darren.nei...@live.com]
Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 3:26 PM
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

My "beefs"... personally, there are parts of the product that I would like to 
see improved at a rate that is faster than the current rate.  Service 
Management (inc. monitoring and reporting) is an example of such an area.   

 

There should be a recognition that the current maturity level of the product 
"is what it is" and that as such, as a consumer of such a service you can, from 
time to time, experience frustrations in using such a service:  

 

http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlazure/archive/2010/03/22/9982979.aspx

 

I understand that, to mature such a product requires an effort in terms of not 
only software and systems development, but also importantly in marketing, 
documentation, and support services as well.  And to raise the maturity level 
from where it currently sits will take some time.

 

It is some of these issues - and through concentrated use of the service and 
its features - that I have experie

RE: Azure in Australia

[Darren Neimke]

Personally, I think it's time we all put on a different color hat! :-)

Kind Regards, Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com http://2010wave.blogspot.com  



Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 09:15:17 +1000
Subject: Re: Azure in Australia
From: phi...@philiprichardson.org
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

Yeah - agree with David - comparing Azure Compute to Heroku is not a fair 
comparison.
Something fairer would be Azure Computer vs Amazon EC2. Both offer similar 
capabilities in the Windows space (ie. running .NET code). Deployment is 
'generally' easier with Azure - but flexibility is better with Amazon (admin 
access to the box). Yes ... I know that Azure has admin access (for the 
privileged few if you excuse the pun) - but that only complicates deployment; 
to the point where Amazon is actually easier.

The other thing to consider is price. Amazon does have reserved instances and 
the new trial of bring your own license (very cool - but only US EA customers 
for now). You want to take these 'service prices' and compare them to buying 
iron, powering iron, cooling iron, licensing windows for your iron, bandwidth 
for your iron and paying your local iron-feeder (ie. your BOFH). Not to mention 
the complexity of service contracts for repairs etc. Now if you want 10+ 
servers you need to think about this (ie. you've outgrown your backyard 
shed-datacentre or your go-daddy-esque shared hosting).

There are fair criticisms to make about Azure - but price probably isn't one of 
them.
Phil[Disclaimer - I worked for MS until a few months ago - on one of the Azure 
teams]


On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 8:28 AM, David Connors  wrote:

On 6 April 2010 07:17, Darren Neimke  wrote:












Here's a post by Tatham that highlights the cost 
issue:
 

http://blog.tatham.oddie.com.au/2010/04/05/why-windows-azure-is-not-worth-investing-in
 
I'm not a MS beancounter, and so I'm not sure how they 
are going to do it... but if they are going to attract devs to their platform, 
they will need to find a way to open it up for development purposes because all 
of what Tatham has written in his article is extremely valid.  I've been in 
the same place as Tatham - having to make that decision about where to host my 
small service - and ultimately at that point I have baulked and turned away 
from 
Azure.
The only thing I think is valid in that article is the criticism that MSDN does 
not include a 24x365 compute instance. With that, I am on the same page as 
Tatham however I also can appreciate that MS have sunk a bucketload of money 
into building the platform and associated data centres and there would be some 
sort of internal charge back between groups which would just drive up the cost 
of MSDN. 



The crux ... "US$84.82 per month … for a web service." does not make sense. A 
few observations:$84.82 per month for a small Windows based VPS is probably 
about the market price at the moment (excluding the likes of slice host etc). 
The deployment model of Azure is as a fixed commit of resources at the time of 
deployment. 


Azure was built from the ground up for scale-out scenarios. You should choose a 
platform and deployment model that are appropriate for the application. Try 
deploying native x64 Windows binaries to heroku and see how far you get.


Finding a bunch of people to support your argue that something that costs money 
should be free instead doesn't really prove much other than confirm my long 
term opinion that people in IT are both simultaneously highly-paid and complete 
and utter tight arses. 


In this case, he has chosen the wrong platform for this web service and should 
be looking at shared hosting which, after reading this: 
http://heroku.com/how/architecture - looks like exactly what he did. Unless I 
am missing something, Heroku is just a Ruby on Rails shared hosting platform. 
I'd sooner choose Google App Engine if I was looking for free - at least you 
can use a proper type-safe language. 



David. 



 
This is in part, why I've deduced that Azure is an 
enterprise only product - and why I'm so tough about it lacking certain 
enterprise features.
 
 
 
 
Kind Regards,
 
Darren Neimke
http://twitter.com/digory 
darren.nei...@live.com 



mob: 0439 
855 046




From: Greg Willis 
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 2:31 PM
To: ozAzure 
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia



Great to see some lively discussion starting up here.  If I can see 
evidence there is more than 3 of us on this list I'll definitely ask a few more 
folk from the Windows Azure and SQL Azure product teams to sign-up for good 
measure :-)
 
I think it's fair to say that SQL Azure is still optimized for some 
scenarios (web, smaller application and ISV workloads) over others right 
now.   I think it's also fair to say they are adding in functionality 
at a decent rate (50GB size instances coming, spatial etc).   There is 
still also a lot I'd li

Re: Azure in Australia

[Philip Richardson]

Yeah - agree with David - comparing Azure Compute to Heroku is not a
fair comparison.

Something fairer would be Azure Computer vs Amazon EC2. Both
offer similar capabilities in the Windows space (ie. running .NET code).
Deployment is 'generally' easier with Azure - but flexibility is better with
Amazon (admin access to the box). Yes ... I know that Azure has admin access
(for the privileged few if you excuse the pun) - but that only complicates
deployment; to the point where Amazon is actually easier.

The other thing to consider is price. Amazon does have reserved instances
and the new trial of bring your own license (very cool - but only US EA
customers for now). You want to take these 'service prices' and compare them
to buying iron, powering iron, cooling iron, licensing windows for your
iron, bandwidth for your iron and paying your local iron-feeder (ie. your
BOFH). Not to mention the complexity of service contracts for repairs etc.
Now if you want 10+ servers you need to think about this (ie. you've
outgrown your backyard shed-datacentre or your go-daddy-esque shared
hosting).

There are fair criticisms to make about Azure - but price probably isn't one
of them.

Phil
[Disclaimer - I worked for MS until a few months ago - on one of the Azure
teams]


On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 8:28 AM, David Connors  wrote:

> On 6 April 2010 07:17, Darren Neimke  wrote:
>
>>  Here's a post by Tatham that highlights the cost issue:
>>
>>
>> http://blog.tatham.oddie.com.au/2010/04/05/why-windows-azure-is-not-worth-investing-in
>>
>> I'm not a MS beancounter, and so I'm not sure how they are going to do
>> it... but if they are going to attract devs to their platform, they will
>> need to find a way to open it up for development purposes because all of
>> what Tatham has written in his article is extremely valid.  I've been in the
>> same place as Tatham - having to make that decision about where to host my
>> small service - and ultimately at that point I have baulked and turned away
>> from Azure.
>>
>
> The only thing I think is valid in that article is the criticism that MSDN
> does not include a 24x365 compute instance. With that, I am on the same page
> as Tatham however I also can appreciate that MS have sunk a bucketload of
> money into building the platform and associated data centres and there would
> be some sort of internal charge back between groups which would just drive
> up the cost of MSDN.
>
> The crux ... "US$84.82 per month … for a web service." does not make sense.
> A few observations:
>
>1. $84.82 per month for a small Windows based VPS is probably about the
>market price at the moment (excluding the likes of slice host etc). The
>deployment model of Azure is as a fixed commit of resources at the time of
>deployment.
>2. Azure was built from the ground up for scale-out scenarios.
>3. You should choose a platform and deployment model that are
>appropriate for the application.
>4. Try deploying native x64 Windows binaries to heroku and see how far
>you get.
>5. Finding a bunch of people to support your argue that something that
>costs money should be free instead doesn't really prove much other than
>confirm my long term opinion that people in IT are both simultaneously
>highly-paid and complete and utter tight arses.
>
> In this case, he has chosen the wrong platform for this web service and
> should be looking at shared hosting which, after reading this:
> http://heroku.com/how/architecture - looks like exactly what he did.
> Unless I am missing something, Heroku is just a Ruby on Rails shared hosting
> platform. I'd sooner choose Google App Engine if I was looking for free - at
> least you can use a proper type-safe language.
>
> David.
>
>
>>
>> This is in part, why I've deduced that Azure is an enterprise only product
>> - and why I'm so tough about it lacking certain enterprise features.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>>
>> Darren Neimke
>> http://twitter.com/digory
>> darren.nei...@live.com
>> mob: 0439 855 046
>>
>>  *From:* Greg Willis 
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 01, 2010 2:31 PM
>> *To:* ozAzure 
>> *Subject:* RE: Azure in Australia
>>
>>  Great to see some lively discussion starting up here.  If I can see
>> evidence there is more than 3 of us on this list I'll definitely ask a few
>> more folk from the Windows Azure and SQL Azure product teams to sign-up for
>> good measure :-)
>>
>> I think it's fair to say that SQL Azure is still optimized for some
>> scenarios (web, smaller application and ISV workloads) o

Re: Azure in Australia

[David Connors]

On 6 April 2010 07:17, Darren Neimke  wrote:

>  Here's a post by Tatham that highlights the cost issue:
>
>
> http://blog.tatham.oddie.com.au/2010/04/05/why-windows-azure-is-not-worth-investing-in
>
> I'm not a MS beancounter, and so I'm not sure how they are going to do
> it... but if they are going to attract devs to their platform, they will
> need to find a way to open it up for development purposes because all of
> what Tatham has written in his article is extremely valid.  I've been in the
> same place as Tatham - having to make that decision about where to host my
> small service - and ultimately at that point I have baulked and turned away
> from Azure.
>

The only thing I think is valid in that article is the criticism that MSDN
does not include a 24x365 compute instance. With that, I am on the same page
as Tatham however I also can appreciate that MS have sunk a bucketload of
money into building the platform and associated data centres and there would
be some sort of internal charge back between groups which would just drive
up the cost of MSDN.

The crux ... "US$84.82 per month … for a web service." does not make sense.
A few observations:

   1. $84.82 per month for a small Windows based VPS is probably about the
   market price at the moment (excluding the likes of slice host etc). The
   deployment model of Azure is as a fixed commit of resources at the time of
   deployment.
   2. Azure was built from the ground up for scale-out scenarios.
   3. You should choose a platform and deployment model that are appropriate
   for the application.
   4. Try deploying native x64 Windows binaries to heroku and see how far
   you get.
   5. Finding a bunch of people to support your argue that something that
   costs money should be free instead doesn't really prove much other than
   confirm my long term opinion that people in IT are both simultaneously
   highly-paid and complete and utter tight arses.

In this case, he has chosen the wrong platform for this web service and
should be looking at shared hosting which, after reading this:
http://heroku.com/how/architecture - looks like exactly what he did. Unless
I am missing something, Heroku is just a Ruby on Rails shared hosting
platform. I'd sooner choose Google App Engine if I was looking for free - at
least you can use a proper type-safe language.

David.


>
> This is in part, why I've deduced that Azure is an enterprise only product
> - and why I'm so tough about it lacking certain enterprise features.
>
>
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Darren Neimke
> http://twitter.com/digory
> darren.nei...@live.com
> mob: 0439 855 046
>
>  *From:* Greg Willis 
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 01, 2010 2:31 PM
> *To:* ozAzure 
> *Subject:* RE: Azure in Australia
>
>  Great to see some lively discussion starting up here.  If I can see
> evidence there is more than 3 of us on this list I'll definitely ask a few
> more folk from the Windows Azure and SQL Azure product teams to sign-up for
> good measure :-)
>
> I think it's fair to say that SQL Azure is still optimized for some
> scenarios (web, smaller application and ISV workloads) over others right
> now.   I think it's also fair to say they are adding in functionality at a
> decent rate (50GB size instances coming, spatial etc).   There is still also
> a lot I'd like to see added in to open up more scenarios.
>
> I have certainly worked with few product teams that could claim to be more
> feedback focused and driven than the Windows Azure and SQL Azure teams - so
> please use this site (and lists like this one) and let them know what you
> think is lacking: http://www.mygreatsqlazureidea.com
>
> Darren - 235 of your closest friends have currently voted for full-text
> search support.
>
> The product planning guys in the teams look straight to these sites as one
> key pulse of what people want to see next / the most.
>
> There is also the same for Windows Azure:
> http://mygreatwindowsazureidea.com (and "Dalllas', Windows Azure platform
> AppFabric etc)
>
> Cheers,
> Greg Willis
>
>  --
> *From:* ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com [ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com]
> on behalf of Darren Neimke [darren.nei...@live.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, 1 April 2010 3:26 PM
> *To:* ozazure@lists.codify.com
> *Subject:* RE: Azure in Australia
>
>  My "beefs"... personally, there are parts of the product that I would
> like to see improved at a rate that is faster than the current rate.
>  Service Management (inc. monitoring and reporting) is an example of such an
> area.
>
> There should be a recognition that the current maturity level of the
> product "is what it is" and that as such, as a con

Re: Azure in Australia

[Darren Neimke]

Here's a post by Tatham that highlights the cost issue:


http://blog.tatham.oddie.com.au/2010/04/05/why-windows-azure-is-not-worth-investing-in

I'm not a MS beancounter, and so I'm not sure how they are going to do it... 
but if they are going to attract devs to their platform, they will need to find 
a way to open it up for development purposes because all of what Tatham has 
written in his article is extremely valid.  I've been in the same place as 
Tatham - having to make that decision about where to host my small service - 
and ultimately at that point I have baulked and turned away from Azure.

This is in part, why I've deduced that Azure is an enterprise only product - 
and why I'm so tough about it lacking certain enterprise features.




Kind Regards,
 
Darren Neimke
http://twitter.com/digory 
darren.nei...@live.com 
mob: 0439 855 046


From: Greg Willis 
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 2:31 PM
To: ozAzure 
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia


Great to see some lively discussion starting up here.  If I can see evidence 
there is more than 3 of us on this list I'll definitely ask a few more folk 
from the Windows Azure and SQL Azure product teams to sign-up for good measure 
:-)

I think it's fair to say that SQL Azure is still optimized for some scenarios 
(web, smaller application and ISV workloads) over others right now.   I think 
it's also fair to say they are adding in functionality at a decent rate (50GB 
size instances coming, spatial etc).   There is still also a lot I'd like to 
see added in to open up more scenarios.

I have certainly worked with few product teams that could claim to be more 
feedback focused and driven than the Windows Azure and SQL Azure teams - so 
please use this site (and lists like this one) and let them know what you think 
is lacking: http://www.mygreatsqlazureidea.com 

Darren - 235 of your closest friends have currently voted for full-text search 
support.  

The product planning guys in the teams look straight to these sites as one key 
pulse of what people want to see next / the most.

There is also the same for Windows Azure: http://mygreatwindowsazureidea.com 
(and "Dalllas', Windows Azure platform AppFabric etc)

Cheers,
Greg Willis




From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com [ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] on 
behalf of Darren Neimke [darren.nei...@live.com]
Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 3:26 PM
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia


My "beefs"... personally, there are parts of the product that I would like to 
see improved at a rate that is faster than the current rate.  Service 
Management (inc. monitoring and reporting) is an example of such an area.   


There should be a recognition that the current maturity level of the product 
"is what it is" and that as such, as a consumer of such a service you can, from 
time to time, experience frustrations in using such a service:  


http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlazure/archive/2010/03/22/9982979.aspx


I understand that, to mature such a product requires an effort in terms of not 
only software and systems development, but also importantly in marketing, 
documentation, and support services as well.  And to raise the maturity level 
from where it currently sits will take some time.


It is some of these issues - and through concentrated use of the service and 
its features - that I have experienced some dissatisfaction.


Our mileage may vary! :-)




Kind Regards,
 
Darren Neimke
darren.nei...@live.com 
http://2010wave.blogspot.com  





From: steven.n...@readify.net
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:14:50 -0700
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia


I totally agree! I’m just asking.. what are your beefs?

One of mine is that SQL Azure is not so much designed for scale out where the 
other services are.

Its almost like SQL Azure is after a completely different market of consumer, 
which might be true.



Steven Nagy
Readify | Senior Developer

M: +61 404 044 513 | E: steven.n...@readify.net | B: azure.snagy.name



From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke
Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 2:03 PM
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia



>>  Greg, do you think we can get some involvement from them here?

More engagement is always a good thing - especially within AU. 



And in re-reading your opening couple of sentences there Steve (heck... I 
thought you were a blue badge for a second there mate! :)) let's keep an open 
mind about the quality of the system that we are experiencing.  Let's not be 
afraid to make critical assessments as to the state of play.  And let's all 
play together for the betterment of the product.



It

RE: Azure in Australia

[Steven Nagy]

Well when it returns '100 rows updated', you're paying for 4 less chars in 
bandwidth than '100'  =)

But effectively, yes, same charge. However if your update statement is going to 
process 100 rows, you might want to investigate the 'throttle' which will 
stop your transaction if it takes too long.

Steven Nagy
Readify | Senior Developer
M: +61 404 044 513 | E: steven.n...@readify.net | B: azure.snagy.name


-Original Message-
From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of ross
Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 3:28 PM
To: ozAzure
Subject: Re: Azure in Australia

Just to clarify.  Does that mean if I fire a query :

UPDATE sp
SET sp.RetailPrice = sp.RetailPrice * 1.1
FROM StockPrice sp

Would I be charged the same regardless of whether StockPrice had 100
rows or 1,000,000 rows ?


On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Steven Nagy  wrote:
> UPDATE still is a transaction, some data gets sent, some gets received.
> So there is definitely a charge, but it is probably miniscule.
>
>
> Steven Nagy
> Readify | Senior Developer
> M: +61 404 044 513 | E: steven.n...@readify.net | B: azure.snagy.name
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
> [mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of ross
> Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 3:16 PM
> To: ozAzure
> Subject: Re: Azure in Australia
>
> I'm on / watching this list, so that makes 4 at least.
>
> Does SQL Azure incur compute charges? eg.  If I run an update
> statement that doesn't transfer any data, will I incur any charges?
>
> It is pure speculation, but perhaps full text search would be
> expensive for Microsoft to host and therefore expensive for the
> consumer?
>
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Greg Willis  wrote:
>> Great to see some lively discussion starting up here.  If I can see evidence
>> there is more than 3 of us on this list I'll definitely ask a few more folk
>> from the Windows Azure and SQL Azure product teams to sign-up for good
>> measure :-)
>>
>> I think it's fair to say that SQL Azure is still optimized for some
>> scenarios (web, smaller application and ISV workloads) over others right
>> now.   I think it's also fair to say they are adding in functionality at a
>> decent rate (50GB size instances coming, spatial etc).   There is still also
>> a lot I'd like to see added in to open up more scenarios.
>>
>> I have certainly worked with few product teams that could claim to be more
>> feedback focused and driven than the Windows Azure and SQL Azure teams - so
>> please use this site (and lists like this one) and let them know what you
>> think is lacking: http://www.mygreatsqlazureidea.com
>>
>> Darren - 235 of your closest friends have currently voted for full-text
>> search support.
>>
>> The product planning guys in the teams look straight to these sites as one
>> key pulse of what people want to see next / the most.
>>
>> There is also the same for Windows Azure:
>> http://mygreatwindowsazureidea.com (and "Dalllas', Windows Azure platform
>> AppFabric etc)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Greg Willis
>>
>> 
>> From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com [ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] on
>> behalf of Darren Neimke [darren.nei...@live.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 3:26 PM
>> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
>> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
>>
>> My "beefs"... personally, there are parts of the product that I would like
>> to see improved at a rate that is faster than the current rate.  Service
>> Management (inc. monitoring and reporting) is an example of such an area.
>> There should be a recognition that the current maturity level of the product
>> "is what it is" and that as such, as a consumer of such a service you can,
>> from time to time, experience frustrations in using such a service:
>>     http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlazure/archive/2010/03/22/9982979.aspx
>> I understand that, to mature such a product requires an effort in terms of
>> not only software and systems development, but also importantly in
>> marketing, documentation, and support services as well.  And to raise the
>> maturity level from where it currently sits will take some time.
>> It is some of these issues - and through concentrated use of the service and
>> its features - that I have experienced some dissatisfaction.
>> Our mileage may vary! :-)
>>
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>>
>> Darren Neimke
>> darren.nei...@live.com
>> http://2010wave.blogspot.com
&

RE: Azure in Australia

[Darren Neimke]

Thanks Greg, I know that I certainly used up my 10 votes within the first hours 
of the http://mygreatwindowsazureidea.com coming into existence.  Just looking 
at it, my highest ranking vote went to making it less expensive to run apps:
 http://uservoice.com/a/k3vGh
This being the first time that I haven't had an MSDN Subscription for nearly 6 
years, this has hit home to me even harder now.  I'm sure that pricing is an 
area that will continue to come under heavy scrutiny.


Kind Regards, Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com http://2010wave.blogspot.com  



From: gwil...@microsoft.com
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 05:01:01 +










Great to see some lively discussion starting up here.  If I can see evidence 
there is more than 3 of us on this list I'll definitely ask a few more folk 
from the Windows Azure and SQL Azure product teams to sign-up for good measure 
:-)
 
I think it's fair to say that SQL Azure is still optimized for some scenarios 
(web, smaller application and ISV workloads) over others right now.   I think 
it's also fair to say they are adding in functionality at a decent rate (50GB 
size instances coming,
 spatial etc).   There is still also a lot I'd like to see added in to open up 
more scenarios.
 
I have certainly worked with few product teams that could claim to be more 
feedback focused and driven than the Windows Azure and SQL Azure teams - so 
please use this site (and lists like this one) and let them know what you think 
is lacking:

http://www.mygreatsqlazureidea.com 
 
Darren - 235 of your closest friends have currently voted for full-text search 
support. 

 
The product planning guys in the teams look straight to these sites as one key 
pulse of what people want to see next / the most.
 
There is also the same for Windows Azure: 
http://mygreatwindowsazureidea.com (and "Dalllas', Windows Azure platform 
AppFabric etc)
 
Cheers,
Greg Willis
 


From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com [ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] on 
behalf of Darren Neimke [darren.nei...@live.com]

Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 3:26 PM

To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

Subject: RE: Azure in Australia





My "beefs"... personally, there are parts of the product that I would like to 
see improved at a rate that is faster than the current rate.  Service 
Management (inc. monitoring and reporting) is an example of such an area.  



There should be a recognition that the current maturity level of the product 
"is what it is" and that as such, as a consumer of such a service you can, from 
time to time, experience frustrations in using such a service:  



http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlazure/archive/2010/03/22/9982979.aspx



I understand that, to mature such a product requires an effort in terms of not 
only software and systems development, but also importantly in marketing, 
documentation,
 and support services as well.  And to raise the maturity level from where it 
currently sits will take some time.



It is some of these issues - and through concentrated use of the service and 
its features - that I have experienced some dissatisfaction.



Our mileage may vary! :-)








Kind Regards,
 
Darren Neimke
darren.nei...@live.com 
http://2010wave.blogspot.com  








From: steven.n...@readify.net

To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:14:50 -0700

Subject: RE: Azure in Australia





I totally agree! I’m just asking.. what are your beefs?
One of mine is that SQL Azure is not so much designed for scale out where the 
other services are.
Its almost like SQL Azure is after a completely different market of consumer, 
which might be true.
 

Steven Nagy

Readify | Senior Developer
M: +61 404 044 513 | E:
steven.n...@readify.net | B: 
azure.snagy.name

 


From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com [mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com]
On Behalf Of Darren Neimke

Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 2:03 PM

To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

Subject: RE: Azure in Australia


 
>>  Greg, do
 you think we can get some involvement from them here?

More engagement is always a good thing - especially within AU. 


 


And in re-reading your opening couple of sentences there Steve (heck... I 
thought you were a blue badge for a second there mate! :)) let's keep an open 
mind about the
 quality of the system that we are experiencing.  Let's not be afraid to make 
critical assessments as to the state of play.  And let's all play together for 
the betterment of the product.


 


It's in nobody's interest - especially a product evangelist's - for us to be 
shills and simply pretend that everything is fine.


 


At the end of the day I'd ask myself this... how much of my own money (mine or 
my businesses) am I likely to put on the table for Azure.  And what needs to 
improve before
 that amount might be increased.


 




Kind Regards,

 

Darren N

Re: Azure in Australia

[ross]

Just to clarify.  Does that mean if I fire a query :

UPDATE sp
SET sp.RetailPrice = sp.RetailPrice * 1.1
FROM StockPrice sp

Would I be charged the same regardless of whether StockPrice had 100
rows or 1,000,000 rows ?


On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Steven Nagy  wrote:
> UPDATE still is a transaction, some data gets sent, some gets received.
> So there is definitely a charge, but it is probably miniscule.
>
>
> Steven Nagy
> Readify | Senior Developer
> M: +61 404 044 513 | E: steven.n...@readify.net | B: azure.snagy.name
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
> [mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of ross
> Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 3:16 PM
> To: ozAzure
> Subject: Re: Azure in Australia
>
> I'm on / watching this list, so that makes 4 at least.
>
> Does SQL Azure incur compute charges? eg.  If I run an update
> statement that doesn't transfer any data, will I incur any charges?
>
> It is pure speculation, but perhaps full text search would be
> expensive for Microsoft to host and therefore expensive for the
> consumer?
>
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Greg Willis  wrote:
>> Great to see some lively discussion starting up here.  If I can see evidence
>> there is more than 3 of us on this list I'll definitely ask a few more folk
>> from the Windows Azure and SQL Azure product teams to sign-up for good
>> measure :-)
>>
>> I think it's fair to say that SQL Azure is still optimized for some
>> scenarios (web, smaller application and ISV workloads) over others right
>> now.   I think it's also fair to say they are adding in functionality at a
>> decent rate (50GB size instances coming, spatial etc).   There is still also
>> a lot I'd like to see added in to open up more scenarios.
>>
>> I have certainly worked with few product teams that could claim to be more
>> feedback focused and driven than the Windows Azure and SQL Azure teams - so
>> please use this site (and lists like this one) and let them know what you
>> think is lacking: http://www.mygreatsqlazureidea.com
>>
>> Darren - 235 of your closest friends have currently voted for full-text
>> search support.
>>
>> The product planning guys in the teams look straight to these sites as one
>> key pulse of what people want to see next / the most.
>>
>> There is also the same for Windows Azure:
>> http://mygreatwindowsazureidea.com (and "Dalllas', Windows Azure platform
>> AppFabric etc)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Greg Willis
>>
>> 
>> From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com [ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] on
>> behalf of Darren Neimke [darren.nei...@live.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 3:26 PM
>> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
>> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
>>
>> My "beefs"... personally, there are parts of the product that I would like
>> to see improved at a rate that is faster than the current rate.  Service
>> Management (inc. monitoring and reporting) is an example of such an area.
>> There should be a recognition that the current maturity level of the product
>> "is what it is" and that as such, as a consumer of such a service you can,
>> from time to time, experience frustrations in using such a service:
>>     http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlazure/archive/2010/03/22/9982979.aspx
>> I understand that, to mature such a product requires an effort in terms of
>> not only software and systems development, but also importantly in
>> marketing, documentation, and support services as well.  And to raise the
>> maturity level from where it currently sits will take some time.
>> It is some of these issues - and through concentrated use of the service and
>> its features - that I have experienced some dissatisfaction.
>> Our mileage may vary! :-)
>>
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>>
>> Darren Neimke
>> darren.nei...@live.com
>> http://2010wave.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> From: steven.n...@readify.net
>> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
>> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:14:50 -0700
>> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
>>
>> I totally agree! I’m just asking.. what are your beefs?
>>
>> One of mine is that SQL Azure is not so much designed for scale out where
>> the other services are.
>>
>> Its almost like SQL Azure is after a completely different market of
>> consumer, which might be true.
>>
>>
>>
>> Steven Nagy
>> Readify | Senior Developer
>>
>> M: +61 40

RE: Azure in Australia

[Steven Nagy]

UPDATE still is a transaction, some data gets sent, some gets received. 
So there is definitely a charge, but it is probably miniscule.


Steven Nagy
Readify | Senior Developer
M: +61 404 044 513 | E: steven.n...@readify.net | B: azure.snagy.name


-Original Message-
From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of ross
Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 3:16 PM
To: ozAzure
Subject: Re: Azure in Australia

I'm on / watching this list, so that makes 4 at least.

Does SQL Azure incur compute charges? eg.  If I run an update
statement that doesn't transfer any data, will I incur any charges?

It is pure speculation, but perhaps full text search would be
expensive for Microsoft to host and therefore expensive for the
consumer?

On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Greg Willis  wrote:
> Great to see some lively discussion starting up here.  If I can see evidence
> there is more than 3 of us on this list I'll definitely ask a few more folk
> from the Windows Azure and SQL Azure product teams to sign-up for good
> measure :-)
>
> I think it's fair to say that SQL Azure is still optimized for some
> scenarios (web, smaller application and ISV workloads) over others right
> now.   I think it's also fair to say they are adding in functionality at a
> decent rate (50GB size instances coming, spatial etc).   There is still also
> a lot I'd like to see added in to open up more scenarios.
>
> I have certainly worked with few product teams that could claim to be more
> feedback focused and driven than the Windows Azure and SQL Azure teams - so
> please use this site (and lists like this one) and let them know what you
> think is lacking: http://www.mygreatsqlazureidea.com
>
> Darren - 235 of your closest friends have currently voted for full-text
> search support.
>
> The product planning guys in the teams look straight to these sites as one
> key pulse of what people want to see next / the most.
>
> There is also the same for Windows Azure:
> http://mygreatwindowsazureidea.com (and "Dalllas', Windows Azure platform
> AppFabric etc)
>
> Cheers,
> Greg Willis
>
> 
> From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com [ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] on
> behalf of Darren Neimke [darren.nei...@live.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 3:26 PM
> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
>
> My "beefs"... personally, there are parts of the product that I would like
> to see improved at a rate that is faster than the current rate.  Service
> Management (inc. monitoring and reporting) is an example of such an area.
> There should be a recognition that the current maturity level of the product
> "is what it is" and that as such, as a consumer of such a service you can,
> from time to time, experience frustrations in using such a service:
>     http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlazure/archive/2010/03/22/9982979.aspx
> I understand that, to mature such a product requires an effort in terms of
> not only software and systems development, but also importantly in
> marketing, documentation, and support services as well.  And to raise the
> maturity level from where it currently sits will take some time.
> It is some of these issues - and through concentrated use of the service and
> its features - that I have experienced some dissatisfaction.
> Our mileage may vary! :-)
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Darren Neimke
> darren.nei...@live.com
> http://2010wave.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> 
> From: steven.n...@readify.net
> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:14:50 -0700
> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
>
> I totally agree! I’m just asking.. what are your beefs?
>
> One of mine is that SQL Azure is not so much designed for scale out where
> the other services are.
>
> Its almost like SQL Azure is after a completely different market of
> consumer, which might be true.
>
>
>
> Steven Nagy
> Readify | Senior Developer
>
> M: +61 404 044 513 | E: steven.n...@readify.net | B: azure.snagy.name
>
>
>
> From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com
> [mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke
> Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 2:03 PM
> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
>
>
>
>>>  Greg, do you think we can get some involvement from them here?
>
> More engagement is always a good thing - especially within AU.
>
>
>
> And in re-reading your opening couple of sentences there Steve (heck... I
> thought you were a blue badge for a second there mate! :)) let's keep an
> open mind about the quality of the system that we are experie

Re: Azure in Australia

[ross]

I'm on / watching this list, so that makes 4 at least.

Does SQL Azure incur compute charges? eg.  If I run an update
statement that doesn't transfer any data, will I incur any charges?

It is pure speculation, but perhaps full text search would be
expensive for Microsoft to host and therefore expensive for the
consumer?

On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Greg Willis  wrote:
> Great to see some lively discussion starting up here.  If I can see evidence
> there is more than 3 of us on this list I'll definitely ask a few more folk
> from the Windows Azure and SQL Azure product teams to sign-up for good
> measure :-)
>
> I think it's fair to say that SQL Azure is still optimized for some
> scenarios (web, smaller application and ISV workloads) over others right
> now.   I think it's also fair to say they are adding in functionality at a
> decent rate (50GB size instances coming, spatial etc).   There is still also
> a lot I'd like to see added in to open up more scenarios.
>
> I have certainly worked with few product teams that could claim to be more
> feedback focused and driven than the Windows Azure and SQL Azure teams - so
> please use this site (and lists like this one) and let them know what you
> think is lacking: http://www.mygreatsqlazureidea.com
>
> Darren - 235 of your closest friends have currently voted for full-text
> search support.
>
> The product planning guys in the teams look straight to these sites as one
> key pulse of what people want to see next / the most.
>
> There is also the same for Windows Azure:
> http://mygreatwindowsazureidea.com (and "Dalllas', Windows Azure platform
> AppFabric etc)
>
> Cheers,
> Greg Willis
>
> 
> From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com [ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] on
> behalf of Darren Neimke [darren.nei...@live.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 3:26 PM
> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
>
> My "beefs"... personally, there are parts of the product that I would like
> to see improved at a rate that is faster than the current rate.  Service
> Management (inc. monitoring and reporting) is an example of such an area.
> There should be a recognition that the current maturity level of the product
> "is what it is" and that as such, as a consumer of such a service you can,
> from time to time, experience frustrations in using such a service:
>     http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlazure/archive/2010/03/22/9982979.aspx
> I understand that, to mature such a product requires an effort in terms of
> not only software and systems development, but also importantly in
> marketing, documentation, and support services as well.  And to raise the
> maturity level from where it currently sits will take some time.
> It is some of these issues - and through concentrated use of the service and
> its features - that I have experienced some dissatisfaction.
> Our mileage may vary! :-)
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Darren Neimke
> darren.nei...@live.com
> http://2010wave.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> 
> From: steven.n...@readify.net
> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:14:50 -0700
> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
>
> I totally agree! I’m just asking.. what are your beefs?
>
> One of mine is that SQL Azure is not so much designed for scale out where
> the other services are.
>
> Its almost like SQL Azure is after a completely different market of
> consumer, which might be true.
>
>
>
> Steven Nagy
> Readify | Senior Developer
>
> M: +61 404 044 513 | E: steven.n...@readify.net | B: azure.snagy.name
>
>
>
> From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com
> [mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke
> Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 2:03 PM
> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
>
>
>
>>>  Greg, do you think we can get some involvement from them here?
>
> More engagement is always a good thing - especially within AU.
>
>
>
> And in re-reading your opening couple of sentences there Steve (heck... I
> thought you were a blue badge for a second there mate! :)) let's keep an
> open mind about the quality of the system that we are experiencing.  Let's
> not be afraid to make critical assessments as to the state of play.  And
> let's all play together for the betterment of the product.
>
>
>
> It's in nobody's interest - especially a product evangelist's - for us to be
> shills and simply pretend that everything is fine.
>
>
>
> At the end of the day I'd ask myself this... how much of my own money (mine
> or my businesses) am

RE: Azure in Australia

[Greg Willis]

Great to see some lively discussion starting up here.  If I can see evidence 
there is more than 3 of us on this list I'll definitely ask a few more folk 
from the Windows Azure and SQL Azure product teams to sign-up for good measure 
:-)

I think it's fair to say that SQL Azure is still optimized for some scenarios 
(web, smaller application and ISV workloads) over others right now.   I think 
it's also fair to say they are adding in functionality at a decent rate (50GB 
size instances coming, spatial etc).   There is still also a lot I'd like to 
see added in to open up more scenarios.

I have certainly worked with few product teams that could claim to be more 
feedback focused and driven than the Windows Azure and SQL Azure teams - so 
please use this site (and lists like this one) and let them know what you think 
is lacking: http://www.mygreatsqlazureidea.com

Darren - 235 of your closest friends have currently voted for full-text search 
support.

The product planning guys in the teams look straight to these sites as one key 
pulse of what people want to see next / the most.

There is also the same for Windows Azure: http://mygreatwindowsazureidea.com 
(and "Dalllas', Windows Azure platform AppFabric etc)

Cheers,
Greg Willis


From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com [ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] on 
behalf of Darren Neimke [darren.nei...@live.com]
Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 3:26 PM
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

My "beefs"... personally, there are parts of the product that I would like to 
see improved at a rate that is faster than the current rate.  Service 
Management (inc. monitoring and reporting) is an example of such an area.

There should be a recognition that the current maturity level of the product 
"is what it is" and that as such, as a consumer of such a service you can, from 
time to time, experience frustrations in using such a service:

http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlazure/archive/2010/03/22/9982979.aspx

<http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlazure/archive/2010/03/22/9982979.aspx>I understand 
that, to mature such a product requires an effort in terms of not only software 
and systems development, but also importantly in marketing, documentation, and 
support services as well.  And to raise the maturity level from where it 
currently sits will take some time.

It is some of these issues - and through concentrated use of the service and 
its features - that I have experienced some dissatisfaction.

Our mileage may vary! :-)



Kind Regards,

Darren Neimke
darren.nei...@live.com<mailto:darren.nei...@live.com>
http://2010wave.blogspot.com




From: steven.n...@readify.net
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:14:50 -0700
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia


I totally agree! I’m just asking.. what are your beefs?

One of mine is that SQL Azure is not so much designed for scale out where the 
other services are.

Its almost like SQL Azure is after a completely different market of consumer, 
which might be true.



Steven Nagy
Readify | Senior Developer

M: +61 404 044 513 | E: steven.n...@readify.net | B: 
azure.snagy.name<http://azure.snagy.name/>



From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke
Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 2:03 PM
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia



>>  Greg, do you think we can get some involvement from them here?

More engagement is always a good thing - especially within AU.



And in re-reading your opening couple of sentences there Steve (heck... I 
thought you were a blue badge for a second there mate! :)) let's keep an open 
mind about the quality of the system that we are experiencing.  Let's not be 
afraid to make critical assessments as to the state of play.  And let's all 
play together for the betterment of the product.



It's in nobody's interest - especially a product evangelist's - for us to be 
shills and simply pretend that everything is fine.



At the end of the day I'd ask myself this... how much of my own money (mine or 
my businesses) am I likely to put on the table for Azure.  And what needs to 
improve before that amount might be increased.



Kind Regards,

Darren Neimke
darren.nei...@live.com<mailto:darren.nei...@live.com>
http://2010wave.blogspot.com



____

From: steven.n...@readify.net
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:40:21 -0700
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

Hi Darren,



There are many ways in which to supply feedback to the team. Currently you can 
‘request features’ and the team also has had online open chat sessions before. 
I’ve found these sessions to be very telling because a lot of cloud enthusiasts 
have really pushed hard on certain issues. I’m not sure if anyone from th

RE: Azure in Australia

[Darren Neimke]

My "beefs"... personally, there are parts of the product that I would like to 
see improved at a rate that is faster than the current rate.  Service 
Management (inc. monitoring and reporting) is an example of such an area.  
There should be a recognition that the current maturity level of the product 
"is what it is" and that as such, as a consumer of such a service you can, from 
time to time, experience frustrations in using such a service:  
http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlazure/archive/2010/03/22/9982979.aspx
I understand that, to mature such a product requires an effort in terms of not 
only software and systems development, but also importantly in marketing, 
documentation, and support services as well.  And to raise the maturity level 
from where it currently sits will take some time.
It is some of these issues - and through concentrated use of the service and 
its features - that I have experienced some dissatisfaction.
Our mileage may vary! :-)
 

Kind Regards, Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com http://2010wave.blogspot.com  



From: steven.n...@readify.net
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:14:50 -0700
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia



















I totally agree! I’m just asking.. what are your beefs?

One of mine is that SQL Azure is not so much designed for scale
out where the other services are.

Its almost like SQL Azure is after a completely different market
of consumer, which might be true.

 



Steven
Nagy

Readify | Senior Developer

M:
+61 404 044 513 | E: steven.n...@readify.net | B: azure.snagy.name



 





From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke

Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 2:03 PM

To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

Subject: RE: Azure in Australia





 

>>  Greg, do you think we can get some involvement from them
here?



More
engagement is always a good thing - especially within AU. 





 





And
in re-reading your opening couple of sentences there Steve (heck... I thought
you were a blue badge for a second there mate! :)) let's keep an open mind
about the quality of the system that we are experiencing.  Let's not be
afraid to make critical assessments as to the state of play.  And let's
all play together for the betterment of the product.





 





It's
in nobody's interest - especially a product evangelist's - for us to be shills
and simply pretend that everything is fine.





 





At
the end of the day I'd ask myself this... how much of my own money (mine or my
businesses) am I likely to put on the table for Azure.  And what needs to
improve before that amount might be increased.





 







Kind Regards,

 

Darren Neimke

darren.nei...@live.com 

http://2010wave.blogspot.com  













From: steven.n...@readify.net

To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:40:21 -0700

Subject: RE: Azure in Australia



Hi Darren,

 

There are many ways in which to supply feedback to the team.
Currently you can ‘request features’ and the team also has had online open chat
sessions before. I’ve found these sessions to be very telling because a lot of
cloud enthusiasts have really pushed hard on certain issues. I’m not sure if
anyone from the development teams are actually on this list (like Jim, Steve,
etc) but would be nice if they were. Greg, do you think we can get some
involvement from them here?

 

And Darren, what exactly is your perception of how things have
gone? I’d like to see how it aligns with my own, given I haven’t been to a PDC
or MIX and my only contact mechanism with the team is through social media.

 

Cheers,



Steven Nagy

Readify | Senior Developer

M: +61 404 044 513 | E: steven.n...@readify.net | B: azure.snagy.name



 





From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke

Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 1:36 PM

To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

Subject: RE: Azure in Australia





 

In
all seriousness though Greg, I think that some more transparency about some of
this stuff could have helped, and not hindered the perception of how certain
things have gone by people such as myself.  At the end of the day, is
there discussion about these things within the realm of the social media - yes;
but is that *the* appropriate medium for communicating to your target audience
about the state of the product... probably not.



 





And
on the topic of help, if there are genuine areas in which you guys need any
help or feedback *and* you are prepared to deal with the feedback in a
transparent and honest manner... then I'm always available.  As I always
say... my supply of opinions is nearly limitless!





 





 





 



Kind Regards,

 

Darren Neimke

darren.nei...@live.com 

http://2010wave.blogspot.com  











From: darren.nei...@live.com

To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 201

RE: Azure in Australia

[Steven Nagy]

I totally agree! I’m just asking.. what are your beefs?
One of mine is that SQL Azure is not so much designed for scale out where the 
other services are.
Its almost like SQL Azure is after a completely different market of consumer, 
which might be true.

Steven Nagy
Readify | Senior Developer
M: +61 404 044 513 | E: steven.n...@readify.net | 
B: azure.snagy.name<http://azure.snagy.name/>

From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke
Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 2:03 PM
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

>>  Greg, do you think we can get some involvement from them here?
More engagement is always a good thing - especially within AU.

And in re-reading your opening couple of sentences there Steve (heck... I 
thought you were a blue badge for a second there mate! :)) let's keep an open 
mind about the quality of the system that we are experiencing.  Let's not be 
afraid to make critical assessments as to the state of play.  And let's all 
play together for the betterment of the product.

It's in nobody's interest - especially a product evangelist's - for us to be 
shills and simply pretend that everything is fine.

At the end of the day I'd ask myself this... how much of my own money (mine or 
my businesses) am I likely to put on the table for Azure.  And what needs to 
improve before that amount might be increased.


Kind Regards,

Darren Neimke
darren.nei...@live.com<mailto:darren.nei...@live.com>
http://2010wave.blogspot.com



From: steven.n...@readify.net
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:40:21 -0700
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
Hi Darren,

There are many ways in which to supply feedback to the team. Currently you can 
‘request features’ and the team also has had online open chat sessions before. 
I’ve found these sessions to be very telling because a lot of cloud enthusiasts 
have really pushed hard on certain issues. I’m not sure if anyone from the 
development teams are actually on this list (like Jim, Steve, etc) but would be 
nice if they were. Greg, do you think we can get some involvement from them 
here?

And Darren, what exactly is your perception of how things have gone? I’d like 
to see how it aligns with my own, given I haven’t been to a PDC or MIX and my 
only contact mechanism with the team is through social media.

Cheers,
Steven Nagy
Readify | Senior Developer
M: +61 404 044 513 | E: steven.n...@readify.net | B: 
azure.snagy.name<http://azure.snagy.name/>

From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke
Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 1:36 PM
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

In all seriousness though Greg, I think that some more transparency about some 
of this stuff could have helped, and not hindered the perception of how certain 
things have gone by people such as myself.  At the end of the day, is there 
discussion about these things within the realm of the social media - yes; but 
is that *the* appropriate medium for communicating to your target audience 
about the state of the product... probably not.

And on the topic of help, if there are genuine areas in which you guys need any 
help or feedback *and* you are prepared to deal with the feedback in a 
transparent and honest manner... then I'm always available.  As I always say... 
my supply of opinions is nearly limitless!




Kind Regards,

Darren Neimke
darren.nei...@live.com<mailto:darren.nei...@live.com>
http://2010wave.blogspot.com


From: darren.nei...@live.com
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:56:10 -0700

Oh I don't want to actually *do* any work... I just want to express my right to 
complain about the work of others :-)

Kind Regards,

Darren Neimke
darren.nei...@live.com<mailto:darren.nei...@live.com>
http://2010wave.blogspot.com



> From: gwil...@microsoft.com
> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 02:20:30 +
>
> Full-text search is not currently supported in SQL Azure. It is planned in 
> future releases.
> One of the first places to watch for confirm of new functionality in the SQL 
> Azure releases is the team blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/ssds/
>
> They are also recruiting Darren so you can go and help them finish the job ☺
>
> Cheers,
>
> Greg Willis
> Email: gwil...@microsoft.com
>
> From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
> [mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke
> Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 10:58 AM
> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
>
> Thanks Greg, it's good to see that you guys are taking the time to present 
> the informat

RE: Azure in Australia

[Darren Neimke]

>>  Greg, do you think we can get some involvement from them here?

More engagement is always a good thing - especially within AU. 
And in re-reading your opening couple of sentences there Steve (heck... I 
thought you were a blue badge for a second there mate! :)) let's keep an open 
mind about the quality of the system that we are experiencing.  Let's not be 
afraid to make critical assessments as to the state of play.  And let's all 
play together for the betterment of the product.
It's in nobody's interest - especially a product evangelist's - for us to be 
shills and simply pretend that everything is fine.
At the end of the day I'd ask myself this... how much of my own money (mine or 
my businesses) am I likely to put on the table for Azure.  And what needs to 
improve before that amount might be increased.

Kind Regards, Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com http://2010wave.blogspot.com  



From: steven.n...@readify.net
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:40:21 -0700
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia



















Hi Darren,

 

There are many ways in which to supply feedback to the team.
Currently you can ‘request features’ and the team also has had online open chat
sessions before. I’ve found these sessions to be very telling because a lot of
cloud enthusiasts have really pushed hard on certain issues. I’m not sure if
anyone from the development teams are actually on this list (like Jim, Steve,
etc) but would be nice if they were. Greg, do you think we can get some
involvement from them here?

 

And Darren, what exactly is your perception of how things have
gone? I’d like to see how it aligns with my own, given I haven’t been to a PDC
or MIX and my only contact mechanism with the team is through social media.

 

Cheers,



Steven
Nagy

Readify | Senior Developer

M:
+61 404 044 513 | E: steven.n...@readify.net | B: azure.snagy.name



 





From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke

Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 1:36 PM

To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

Subject: RE: Azure in Australia





 

In
all seriousness though Greg, I think that some more transparency about some of
this stuff could have helped, and not hindered the perception of how certain
things have gone by people such as myself.  At the end of the day, is
there discussion about these things within the realm of the social media - yes;
but is that *the* appropriate medium for communicating to your target audience
about the state of the product... probably not.



 





And
on the topic of help, if there are genuine areas in which you guys need any
help or feedback *and* you are prepared to deal with the feedback in a 
transparent
and honest manner... then I'm always available.  As I always say... my
supply of opinions is nearly limitless!





 





 





 



Kind Regards,

 

Darren Neimke

darren.nei...@live.com 

http://2010wave.blogspot.com  













From: darren.nei...@live.com

To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:56:10 -0700



Oh I don't want to actually *do* any work... I just want to express my right to
complain about the work of others :-)



Kind Regards,

 

Darren Neimke

darren.nei...@live.com 

http://2010wave.blogspot.com  







> From: gwil...@microsoft.com

> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 02:20:30 +

> 

> Full-text search is not currently supported in SQL Azure. It is planned in
future releases. 

> One of the first places to watch for confirm of new functionality in the
SQL Azure releases is the team blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/ssds/

> 

> They are also recruiting Darren so you can go and help them finish the job
☺

> 

> Cheers,

> 

> Greg Willis

> Email: gwil...@microsoft.com

> 

> From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke

> Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 10:58 AM

> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

> 

> Thanks Greg, it's good to see that you guys are taking the time to present
the information in a more understandable format.  It would have been nice
if you'd finished building it before you started charging for it though.

> 

> Also, if I click on the Products tab I get some nice marketing information
about each product, but it's not easy to see what specific features I am or am
not getting.  If I look at the SQL Azure product sheet it's not clear
as to what functionality is included.  For example is Full Text Search included
yet - the Wikipedia page talks about search being included but it wasn't there
when I last used the product back in December.

> 

> 

> Kind Regards,

>  

> Darren Neimke

> darren.nei...@live.com 

> http://2010wa

RE: Azure in Australia

[Darren Neimke]

>> very telling because a lot of cloud enthusiasts have really pushed hard on 
>> certain issues

I've tended to try and steer clear of cloud enthusiasts and people selling 
phone deals :-)  Seriously though, I we've all read "The Big Switch", it's a 
great read.  But I think that there are key differences between cloud 
enthusiasts and people who develop and deliver software solutions - and their 
motivations.  
This is why I've tended to focus on cold, hard, facts.  Azure is (priced as) an 
enterprise grade solution.  Therefore, without features such as Full Text 
Search it is incomplete (for me). 

Kind Regards, Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com http://2010wave.blogspot.com  



From: steven.n...@readify.net
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:40:21 -0700
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia



















Hi Darren,

 

There are many ways in which to supply feedback to the team.
Currently you can ‘request features’ and the team also has had online open chat
sessions before. I’ve found these sessions to be very telling because a lot of
cloud enthusiasts have really pushed hard on certain issues. I’m not sure if
anyone from the development teams are actually on this list (like Jim, Steve,
etc) but would be nice if they were. Greg, do you think we can get some
involvement from them here?

 

And Darren, what exactly is your perception of how things have
gone? I’d like to see how it aligns with my own, given I haven’t been to a PDC
or MIX and my only contact mechanism with the team is through social media.

 

Cheers,



Steven
Nagy

Readify | Senior Developer

M:
+61 404 044 513 | E: steven.n...@readify.net | B: azure.snagy.name



 





From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke

Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 1:36 PM

To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

Subject: RE: Azure in Australia





 

In
all seriousness though Greg, I think that some more transparency about some of
this stuff could have helped, and not hindered the perception of how certain
things have gone by people such as myself.  At the end of the day, is
there discussion about these things within the realm of the social media - yes;
but is that *the* appropriate medium for communicating to your target audience
about the state of the product... probably not.



 





And
on the topic of help, if there are genuine areas in which you guys need any
help or feedback *and* you are prepared to deal with the feedback in a 
transparent
and honest manner... then I'm always available.  As I always say... my
supply of opinions is nearly limitless!





 





 





 



Kind Regards,

 

Darren Neimke

darren.nei...@live.com 

http://2010wave.blogspot.com  













From: darren.nei...@live.com

To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:56:10 -0700



Oh I don't want to actually *do* any work... I just want to express my right to
complain about the work of others :-)



Kind Regards,

 

Darren Neimke

darren.nei...@live.com 

http://2010wave.blogspot.com  







> From: gwil...@microsoft.com

> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 02:20:30 +

> 

> Full-text search is not currently supported in SQL Azure. It is planned in
future releases. 

> One of the first places to watch for confirm of new functionality in the
SQL Azure releases is the team blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/ssds/

> 

> They are also recruiting Darren so you can go and help them finish the job
☺

> 

> Cheers,

> 

> Greg Willis

> Email: gwil...@microsoft.com

> 

> From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke

> Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 10:58 AM

> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

> 

> Thanks Greg, it's good to see that you guys are taking the time to present
the information in a more understandable format.  It would have been nice
if you'd finished building it before you started charging for it though.

> 

> Also, if I click on the Products tab I get some nice marketing information
about each product, but it's not easy to see what specific features I am or am
not getting.  If I look at the SQL Azure product sheet it's not clear
as to what functionality is included.  For example is Full Text Search included
yet - the Wikipedia page talks about search being included but it wasn't there
when I last used the product back in December.

> 

> 

> Kind Regards,

>  

> Darren Neimke

> darren.nei...@live.com 

> http://2010wave.blogspot.com  

> 

> 

> 

> > From: gwil...@microsoft.com

> > To: ozazure@lists.codify.com

> > Subject: Azure in Australia

> > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:39:32 +

> > 

RE: Azure in Australia

[Steven Nagy]

Hi Darren,

There are many ways in which to supply feedback to the team. Currently you can 
‘request features’ and the team also has had online open chat sessions before. 
I’ve found these sessions to be very telling because a lot of cloud enthusiasts 
have really pushed hard on certain issues. I’m not sure if anyone from the 
development teams are actually on this list (like Jim, Steve, etc) but would be 
nice if they were. Greg, do you think we can get some involvement from them 
here?

And Darren, what exactly is your perception of how things have gone? I’d like 
to see how it aligns with my own, given I haven’t been to a PDC or MIX and my 
only contact mechanism with the team is through social media.

Cheers,
Steven Nagy
Readify | Senior Developer
M: +61 404 044 513 | E: steven.n...@readify.net | 
B: azure.snagy.name<http://azure.snagy.name/>

From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke
Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 1:36 PM
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

In all seriousness though Greg, I think that some more transparency about some 
of this stuff could have helped, and not hindered the perception of how certain 
things have gone by people such as myself.  At the end of the day, is there 
discussion about these things within the realm of the social media - yes; but 
is that *the* appropriate medium for communicating to your target audience 
about the state of the product... probably not.

And on the topic of help, if there are genuine areas in which you guys need any 
help or feedback *and* you are prepared to deal with the feedback in a 
transparent and honest manner... then I'm always available.  As I always say... 
my supply of opinions is nearly limitless!




Kind Regards,

Darren Neimke
darren.nei...@live.com<mailto:darren.nei...@live.com>
http://2010wave.blogspot.com



From: darren.nei...@live.com
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:56:10 -0700

Oh I don't want to actually *do* any work... I just want to express my right to 
complain about the work of others :-)

Kind Regards,

Darren Neimke
darren.nei...@live.com<mailto:darren.nei...@live.com>
http://2010wave.blogspot.com



> From: gwil...@microsoft.com
> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 02:20:30 +
>
> Full-text search is not currently supported in SQL Azure. It is planned in 
> future releases.
> One of the first places to watch for confirm of new functionality in the SQL 
> Azure releases is the team blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/ssds/
>
> They are also recruiting Darren so you can go and help them finish the job ☺
>
> Cheers,
>
> Greg Willis
> Email: gwil...@microsoft.com
>
> From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
> [mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke
> Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 10:58 AM
> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
>
> Thanks Greg, it's good to see that you guys are taking the time to present 
> the information in a more understandable format.  It would have been nice if 
> you'd finished building it before you started charging for it though.
>
> Also, if I click on the Products tab I get some nice marketing information 
> about each product, but it's not easy to see what specific features I am or 
> am not getting.  If I look at the SQL Azure product sheet it's not clear as 
> to what functionality is included.  For example is Full Text Search included 
> yet - the Wikipedia page talks about search being included but it wasn't 
> there when I last used the product back in December.
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Darren Neimke
> darren.nei...@live.com
> http://2010wave.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> > From: gwil...@microsoft.com
> > To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> > Subject: Azure in Australia
> > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:39:32 +
> >
> > As we’re apparently lacking Azure content for this list (☺) you might be 
> > interested to know Azure will be available for Australia just after Easter.
> > You can see all of the ways you can get access after release here: 
> > http://www.windowsazure.com/offers and local AUD pricing.
> >
> > Greg Willis
> > Windows Azure Evangelism Lead, Microsoft Australia
> > Email: gwil...@microsoft.com   Twitter: @gwillis
> > Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/gwillis
> > LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/gwillis
> > ___
> > ozazure mailing list
> > ozazure@lists.codify.com
> > http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozazure
>
> 
> Hotma

RE: Azure in Australia

[Darren Neimke]

In all seriousness though Greg, I think that some more transparency about some 
of this stuff could have helped, and not hindered the perception of how certain 
things have gone by people such as myself.  At the end of the day, is there 
discussion about these things within the realm of the social media - yes; but 
is that *the* appropriate medium for communicating to your target audience 
about the state of the product... probably not.
And on the topic of help, if there are genuine areas in which you guys need any 
help or feedback *and* you are prepared to deal with the feedback in a 
transparent and honest manner... then I'm always available.  As I always say... 
my supply of opinions is nearly limitless!

 

Kind Regards, Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com http://2010wave.blogspot.com  



From: darren.nei...@live.com
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:56:10 -0700








Oh I don't want to actually *do* any work... I just want to express my right to 
complain about the work of others :-)

Kind Regards, Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com http://2010wave.blogspot.com  



> From: gwil...@microsoft.com
> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 02:20:30 +
> 
> Full-text search is not currently supported in SQL Azure.   It is planned in 
> future releases. 
> One of the first places to watch for confirm of new functionality in the SQL 
> Azure releases is the team blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/ssds/
> 
> They are also recruiting Darren so you can go and help them finish the job ☺
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Greg Willis
> Email: gwil...@microsoft.com
> 
> From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
> [mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke
> Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 10:58 AM
> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
> 
> Thanks Greg, it's good to see that you guys are taking the time to present 
> the information in a more understandable format.  It would have been nice if 
> you'd finished building it before you started charging for it though.
> 
> Also, if I click on the Products tab I get some nice marketing information 
> about each product, but it's not easy to see what specific features I am or 
> am not getting.  If I look at the SQL Azure product sheet it's not clear as 
> to what functionality is included.  For example is Full Text Search included 
> yet - the Wikipedia page talks about search being included but it wasn't 
> there when I last used the product back in December.
> 
> 
> Kind Regards,
>  
> Darren Neimke
> darren.nei...@live.com 
> http://2010wave.blogspot.com  
> 
> 
> 
> > From: gwil...@microsoft.com
> > To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> > Subject: Azure in Australia
> > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:39:32 +
> > 
> > As we’re apparently lacking Azure content for this list (☺) you might be 
> > interested to know Azure will be available for Australia just after Easter.
> > You can see all of the ways you can get access after release here: 
> > http://www.windowsazure.com/offers and local AUD pricing.
> > 
> > Greg Willis
> > Windows Azure Evangelism Lead, Microsoft Australia
> > Email: gwil...@microsoft.com   Twitter: @gwillis
> > Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/gwillis
> > LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/gwillis
> > ___
> > ozazure mailing list
> > ozazure@lists.codify.com
> > http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozazure
> 
> 
> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.
> ___
> ozazure mailing list
> ozazure@lists.codify.com
> http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozazure
  
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.  
  
_
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ozazure@lists.codify.com
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RE: Azure in Australia

[Darren Neimke]

Oh I don't want to actually *do* any work... I just want to express my right to 
complain about the work of others :-)

Kind Regards, Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com http://2010wave.blogspot.com  



> From: gwil...@microsoft.com
> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 02:20:30 +
> 
> Full-text search is not currently supported in SQL Azure.   It is planned in 
> future releases. 
> One of the first places to watch for confirm of new functionality in the SQL 
> Azure releases is the team blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/ssds/
> 
> They are also recruiting Darren so you can go and help them finish the job ☺
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Greg Willis
> Email: gwil...@microsoft.com
> 
> From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
> [mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke
> Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 10:58 AM
> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> Subject: RE: Azure in Australia
> 
> Thanks Greg, it's good to see that you guys are taking the time to present 
> the information in a more understandable format.  It would have been nice if 
> you'd finished building it before you started charging for it though.
> 
> Also, if I click on the Products tab I get some nice marketing information 
> about each product, but it's not easy to see what specific features I am or 
> am not getting.  If I look at the SQL Azure product sheet it's not clear as 
> to what functionality is included.  For example is Full Text Search included 
> yet - the Wikipedia page talks about search being included but it wasn't 
> there when I last used the product back in December.
> 
> 
> Kind Regards,
>  
> Darren Neimke
> darren.nei...@live.com 
> http://2010wave.blogspot.com  
> 
> 
> 
> > From: gwil...@microsoft.com
> > To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> > Subject: Azure in Australia
> > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:39:32 +
> > 
> > As we’re apparently lacking Azure content for this list (☺) you might be 
> > interested to know Azure will be available for Australia just after Easter.
> > You can see all of the ways you can get access after release here: 
> > http://www.windowsazure.com/offers and local AUD pricing.
> > 
> > Greg Willis
> > Windows Azure Evangelism Lead, Microsoft Australia
> > Email: gwil...@microsoft.com   Twitter: @gwillis
> > Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/gwillis
> > LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/gwillis
> > ___
> > ozazure mailing list
> > ozazure@lists.codify.com
> > http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozazure
> 
> 
> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.
> ___
> ozazure mailing list
> ozazure@lists.codify.com
> http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozazure
  
_
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ozazure mailing list
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RE: Azure in Australia

[Greg Willis]

Full-text search is not currently supported in SQL Azure.   It is planned in 
future releases. 
One of the first places to watch for confirm of new functionality in the SQL 
Azure releases is the team blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/ssds/

They are also recruiting Darren so you can go and help them finish the job ☺

Cheers,

Greg Willis
Email: gwil...@microsoft.com

From: ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com 
[mailto:ozazure-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Darren Neimke
Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 10:58 AM
To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
Subject: RE: Azure in Australia

Thanks Greg, it's good to see that you guys are taking the time to present the 
information in a more understandable format.  It would have been nice if you'd 
finished building it before you started charging for it though.

Also, if I click on the Products tab I get some nice marketing information 
about each product, but it's not easy to see what specific features I am or am 
not getting.  If I look at the SQL Azure product sheet it's not clear as to 
what functionality is included.  For example is Full Text Search included yet - 
the Wikipedia page talks about search being included but it wasn't there when I 
last used the product back in December.


Kind Regards,
 
Darren Neimke
darren.nei...@live.com 
http://2010wave.blogspot.com  



> From: gwil...@microsoft.com
> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> Subject: Azure in Australia
> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:39:32 +
> 
> As we’re apparently lacking Azure content for this list (☺) you might be 
> interested to know Azure will be available for Australia just after Easter.
> You can see all of the ways you can get access after release here: 
> http://www.windowsazure.com/offers and local AUD pricing.
> 
> Greg Willis
> Windows Azure Evangelism Lead, Microsoft Australia
> Email: gwil...@microsoft.com   Twitter: @gwillis
> Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/gwillis
> LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/gwillis
> ___
> ozazure mailing list
> ozazure@lists.codify.com
> http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozazure


Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.
___
ozazure mailing list
ozazure@lists.codify.com
http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozazure

RE: Azure in Australia

[Darren Neimke]

Thanks Greg, it's good to see that you guys are taking the time to present the 
information in a more understandable format.  It would have been nice if you'd 
finished building it before you started charging for it though.
Also, if I click on the Products tab I get some nice marketing information 
about each product, but it's not easy to see what specific features I am or am 
not getting.  If I look at the SQL Azure product sheet it's not clear as to 
what functionality is included.  For example is Full Text Search included yet - 
the Wikipedia page talks about search being included but it wasn't there when I 
last used the product back in December.



Kind Regards, Darren neimkedarren.nei...@live.com http://2010wave.blogspot.com  



> From: gwil...@microsoft.com
> To: ozazure@lists.codify.com
> Subject: Azure in Australia
> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:39:32 +
> 
> As we’re apparently lacking Azure content for this list (☺) you might be 
> interested to know Azure will be available for Australia just after Easter.
> You can see all of the ways you can get access after release here: 
> http://www.windowsazure.com/offers  and local AUD pricing.
> 
> Greg Willis
> Windows Azure Evangelism Lead, Microsoft Australia
> Email: gwil...@microsoft.com   Twitter: @gwillis
> Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/gwillis
> LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/gwillis
> ___
> ozazure mailing list
> ozazure@lists.codify.com
> http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozazure
  
_
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850552/direct/01/___
ozazure mailing list
ozazure@lists.codify.com
http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozazure

Azure in Australia

[Greg Willis]

As we’re apparently lacking Azure content for this list (☺) you might be 
interested to know Azure will be available for Australia just after Easter.
You can see all of the ways you can get access after release here: 
http://www.windowsazure.com/offers  and local AUD pricing.

Greg Willis
Windows Azure Evangelism Lead, Microsoft Australia
Email: gwil...@microsoft.com   Twitter: @gwillis
Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/gwillis
LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/gwillis
___
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