Re: [OT] FYI, Large Dell Monitor Sale (again).
Completely changing tack... Has anyone used these? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lilliput-UM1010T-Monitor-USB-powered-Screen/sim/B003DPOMAS/2 Lilliput 10 touch screen USB. On 6 Jun 2012, at 06:01, Corneliu I. Tusnea corne...@acorns.com.au wrote: The LED Monitors generate no heat. At least my Philips LEDs are as cool as the keyboard or the table. On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 9:49 AM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.comwrote: Having different sized screens takes some getting used to. Not sure my current system can drive 3 x 30monitors and I know my wallet can't. 2 x 30 might do. I'd like someone to make monitors that don't push so much heat out at you. http://pic.twitter.com/jABEc65g On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: Definitely get the same model monitors if you are doing to put them next to each other: I think you want to try to make the transition between them as seamless as possible. I’d also agree that having one large monitor is better than two smaller monitors (e.g. who’d want 2 x 15” monitors these days, compared to a single 24” monitor?) It’s just that 30” monitors (and the 27” at the same res) were significantly more expensive than 2 x 24” until recently. Lastly, I ordered this from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002R9HQLI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00. For US$35 + shipping, you can mount two monitors at what height, angle etc, and with less space used on your desk. No need to build hutches or use phone books. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Tuesday, 5 June 2012 6:00 AM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: [OT] FYI, Large Dell Monitor Sale (again). For Greg and others: If you run 2 screens move to 3 and you'll love it. Just find the right screens, make sure they are all exactly the same and have the same settings and are at the same height. You may be right, my two screens are different resolutions, slightly different sizes, at different angles and there is a 2 inch gap between them. It’s the gap that most irritating due to the frame, if only they could be tiled like paper -- Greg The gap is annoying, also the bezel. Picture all the way to the edge... -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Win8 Release Preview
Folks, I've downloaded and installed Win8 preview and I've only been using it for 20 minutes or so. So I get a big candy coloured Start screen and there is absolutely nothing I want on that patronising childish screen, so I go to the desktop and find there are no menus or buttons anywhere to actually do anything. The Start button is conspicuously absent. I couldn't get back to the Start screen, so I just pressed buttons randomly until I think the Windows key took me back. Phew! Then I had to run 5 minutes of web searches to find out how to get into Control Panel to change the region formats. Hell they've clever in tricking me, I had to just start typing Control Pa and it appears in a search results. I would never, ever have thought of that. It turns I can right click the Start screen and click All Apps to get a mutated Start menu, which isn't so bad, but I wouldn't have quickly thought of that either. My first impression is that Windows 8 has turned my PC into a gigantic mobile phone with one app filling the screen and running at a time. I'm not impressed, I have to do many things at once and get to them quickly and switch between them. It's not obvious yet how this is possible in Win8. I know that each new Windows usually creates some sort of usability change, shock or paradigm shift, but this is ridiculous, it's barely even Windows any more. Was that the marketing decision? I will have to read tutorials like a newbie to even figure out how to do anything in Win8 because absolutely nothing is obvious, how embarrassing. Perhaps in a few days I'll learn more and feel better, but I'm just shocked by how much it has changed. Greg
RE: Win8 Release Preview
Anyone know how it looks on multiple monitors? What happens with the full screen win8 apps? Regards Adrian Halid Senior Analyst/Programmer [cid:image001.jpg@01CD4400.570708E0] IT Vision Australia Pty Ltd (ABN: 34 309 336 904) PO Box 881, Canning Bridge WA 6153 Level 3, Kirin Centre, 15 Ogilvie Road, Applecross, WA, 6153 P: (08) 9315 7000 F: (08) 9315 7088 E: adrian.ha...@itvision.com.aumailto:adrian.ha...@itvision.com.auW: http://www.itvision.com.auhttp://www.itvision.com.au/ ___ NOTICE : This e-mail and any attachments are intended for the addressee(s) only and may contain confidential or privileged material. Any unauthorised review, use, alteration, disclosure or distribution of this e-mail (including any attachments) by an unintended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible by return e-mail and then delete both messages. ___ From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2012 4:08 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Win8 Release Preview Folks, I've downloaded and installed Win8 preview and I've only been using it for 20 minutes or so. So I get a big candy coloured Start screen and there is absolutely nothing I want on that patronising childish screen, so I go to the desktop and find there are no menus or buttons anywhere to actually do anything. The Start button is conspicuously absent. I couldn't get back to the Start screen, so I just pressed buttons randomly until I think the Windows key took me back. Phew! Then I had to run 5 minutes of web searches to find out how to get into Control Panel to change the region formats. Hell they've clever in tricking me, I had to just start typing Control Pa and it appears in a search results. I would never, ever have thought of that. It turns I can right click the Start screen and click All Apps to get a mutated Start menu, which isn't so bad, but I wouldn't have quickly thought of that either. My first impression is that Windows 8 has turned my PC into a gigantic mobile phone with one app filling the screen and running at a time. I'm not impressed, I have to do many things at once and get to them quickly and switch between them. It's not obvious yet how this is possible in Win8. I know that each new Windows usually creates some sort of usability change, shock or paradigm shift, but this is ridiculous, it's barely even Windows any more. Was that the marketing decision? I will have to read tutorials like a newbie to even figure out how to do anything in Win8 because absolutely nothing is obvious, how embarrassing. Perhaps in a few days I'll learn more and feel better, but I'm just shocked by how much it has changed. Greg inline: image001.jpg
RE: Win8 Release Preview
http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/Enhancing-Windows-8-for-multiple-monitors Works like this on my home setup. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Halid Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2012 6:21 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Win8 Release Preview Anyone know how it looks on multiple monitors? What happens with the full screen win8 apps? Regards Adrian Halid Senior Analyst/Programmer [Description: email_signature_logo] IT Vision Australia Pty Ltd (ABN: 34 309 336 904) PO Box 881, Canning Bridge WA 6153 Level 3, Kirin Centre, 15 Ogilvie Road, Applecross, WA, 6153 P: (08) 9315 7000 F: (08) 9315 7088 E: adrian.ha...@itvision.com.aumailto:adrian.ha...@itvision.com.auW: http://www.itvision.com.auhttp://www.itvision.com.au/ ___ NOTICE : This e-mail and any attachments are intended for the addressee(s) only and may contain confidential or privileged material. Any unauthorised review, use, alteration, disclosure or distribution of this e-mail (including any attachments) by an unintended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible by return e-mail and then delete both messages. ___ From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]mailto:[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2012 4:08 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Win8 Release Preview Folks, I've downloaded and installed Win8 preview and I've only been using it for 20 minutes or so. So I get a big candy coloured Start screen and there is absolutely nothing I want on that patronising childish screen, so I go to the desktop and find there are no menus or buttons anywhere to actually do anything. The Start button is conspicuously absent. I couldn't get back to the Start screen, so I just pressed buttons randomly until I think the Windows key took me back. Phew! Then I had to run 5 minutes of web searches to find out how to get into Control Panel to change the region formats. Hell they've clever in tricking me, I had to just start typing Control Pa and it appears in a search results. I would never, ever have thought of that. It turns I can right click the Start screen and click All Apps to get a mutated Start menu, which isn't so bad, but I wouldn't have quickly thought of that either. My first impression is that Windows 8 has turned my PC into a gigantic mobile phone with one app filling the screen and running at a time. I'm not impressed, I have to do many things at once and get to them quickly and switch between them. It's not obvious yet how this is possible in Win8. I know that each new Windows usually creates some sort of usability change, shock or paradigm shift, but this is ridiculous, it's barely even Windows any more. Was that the marketing decision? I will have to read tutorials like a newbie to even figure out how to do anything in Win8 because absolutely nothing is obvious, how embarrassing. Perhaps in a few days I'll learn more and feel better, but I'm just shocked by how much it has changed. Greg inline: image001.jpg
RE: Win8 Release Preview
hey Greg. This is exactly what I've been fearful of from the moment the first screen shots leaked. Its ugly, and in my mind, a big mistake. Nothing I've read about or seen has changed my mind on that so far. I've always been bleeding edge. Always. I'm doubtful now. The ugliness and strange decision to force the touch paradigm on a mouse and keyboard have lost me. And don't get me started on how awful the new vs looks to go along with it. On Jun 6, 2012 6:08 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Folks, I’ve downloaded and installed Win8 preview and I’ve only been using it for 20 minutes or so. ** ** So I get a big candy coloured Start screen and there is absolutely nothing I want on that patronising childish screen, so I go to the desktop and find there are no menus or buttons anywhere to actually do anything. The Start button is conspicuously absent. I couldn’t get back to the Start screen, so I just pressed buttons randomly until I think the Windows key took me back. Phew! ** ** Then I had to run 5 minutes of web searches to find out how to get into Control Panel to change the region formats. Hell they’ve clever in tricking me, I had to just start typing “Control Pa” and it appears in a search results. I would never, ever have thought of that. ** ** It turns I can right click the Start screen and click All Apps to get a mutated Start menu, which isn’t so bad, but I wouldn’t have quickly thought of that either. ** ** My first impression is that Windows 8 has turned my PC into a gigantic mobile phone with one app filling the screen and running at a time. I’m not impressed, I have to do many things at once and get to them quickly and switch between them. It’s not obvious yet how this is possible in Win8. I know that each new Windows usually creates some sort of usability change, shock or paradigm shift, but this is ridiculous, it’s barely even Windows any more. Was that the marketing decision? I will have to read tutorials like a newbie to even figure out how to do anything in Win8 because absolutely nothing is obvious, how embarrassing. ** ** Perhaps in a few days I’ll learn more and feel better, but I’m just shocked by how much it has changed. ** ** Greg ** **
Re: Win8 Release Preview
Welcome to the future. Going forward you will be developing directly on your phone, so it makes sense that you can run all of your software on your phone. Your phone will be super powerful and you'll plug it into a dock at work giving you keyboard, mouse and multimonitors. The windows desktop is legacy software. Embrace the change, for the only constant in the universe is change. It takes some getting used to, and no doubt people will find ways around the things they don't like. I have windows 8 installed on my eee slate and it makes the thing usable. It came with Windows 7 and it was horrible. That said, the battery life is horrid (being that of a laptop not a tablet) and I can't use it with the bluetooth keyboard (don't like it being not connected to the screen for some reason). I just got a dell xps 13 which i'm loving but I've not decided yet if I upgrade it to Windows 8 RC or wait. Think I'll wait for now. no touch screen on that. Thing that will address my issues (not issues... too minor to be issues). Get something like Asus Transformer Infinity that has touch screen AND keyboard that can be attached/detached, and will run Windows 8. I heard rumours that there may be a device that can dual boot Android and Windows 8. That would be sweet. might even hold off buying the Transformer Infinity to see if they release something that dual boots. Theres an advertising image being shown at a conference with windows and android logos floating in droplets of water. Waterproof as well!??! :) I'm excited about it. I can still run the software I need (pin it to the start window. You can customise what shows there after all.. pin the things you do want to run, remove the rest!) and it makes touch screens useful. Bring it on! On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Folks, I’ve downloaded and installed Win8 preview and I’ve only been using it for 20 minutes or so. So I get a big candy coloured Start screen and there is absolutely nothing I want on that patronising childish screen, so I go to the desktop and find there are no menus or buttons anywhere to actually do anything. The Start button is conspicuously absent. I couldn’t get back to the Start screen, so I just pressed buttons randomly until I think the Windows key took me back. Phew! Then I had to run 5 minutes of web searches to find out how to get into Control Panel to change the region formats. Hell they’ve clever in tricking me, I had to just start typing “Control Pa” and it appears in a search results. I would never, ever have thought of that. It turns I can right click the Start screen and click All Apps to get a mutated Start menu, which isn’t so bad, but I wouldn’t have quickly thought of that either. My first impression is that Windows 8 has turned my PC into a gigantic mobile phone with one app filling the screen and running at a time. I’m not impressed, I have to do many things at once and get to them quickly and switch between them. It’s not obvious yet how this is possible in Win8. I know that each new Windows usually creates some sort of usability change, shock or paradigm shift, but this is ridiculous, it’s barely even Windows any more. Was that the marketing decision? I will have to read tutorials like a newbie to even figure out how to do anything in Win8 because absolutely nothing is obvious, how embarrassing. Perhaps in a few days I’ll learn more and feel better, but I’m just shocked by how much it has changed. Greg
[OT] It's not Friday, but I've had a tough last 3 weeks ...
I've had several calls like this in the last couple of years (and my wife had one just yesterday), but this overseas call from an (Indian-accepted) Computer Maintenance Department was spun out to 7 minutes by one of the SMBIT guys who received it today. It lightened my mood considerably Put all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht51A_AbHOYfeature=youtu.be your computers in your . Received a call today from Computer Maintenance Department trying to tell me my computer was faulty and I needed to give them access to fix it it for me. Decided to have a bit of fun. The ending was unexpected and hilarious. _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia
Re: [OT] It's not Friday, but I've had a tough last 3 weeks ...
Ian Thomas wrote: I’ve had several calls like this in the last couple of years (and my wife had one just yesterday), but this overseas call from an (Indian-accepted) “Computer Maintenance Department” was spun out to 7 minutes by one of the SMBIT guys who received it today. It lightened my mood considerably Put all your computers in your … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht51A_AbHOYfeature=youtu.be Received a call today from Computer Maintenance Department trying to tell me my computer was faulty and I needed to give them access to fix it it for me. Decided to have a bit of fun. The ending was unexpected and hilarious. Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia LOL. Some people hang up on them when they make the call, I'd recommend everyone playing a game of how long can I keep you on the phone. If everyone who wised on to them tied up their time, it would work somewhat like a scammer-DDOS. Something else worth doing: if you are being phished via email, check that the URL has no identifying details (so they know it came from your email address) and fill out the form with fake info. If everyone filled out BS in those forms, it would once again eat up the time of these people, and perhaps help the banks see suspect logins when there are several failures on non-existent accounts from a certain IP address/range. http://www.419eater.com/ is a website where the scammer gets scammed. Somewhat amusing if you have the time to take a look. -- Les Hughes l...@datarev.com.au
RE: Win8 Release Preview
Chaps, Andrew and Stephen, if you have become productive on Win8, then I am tempted to pay you for tutorials. Do have a specific example of familiar daily tasks that work in some superior way? What's this pinning you like, can I try it? I hadn't thought about the corporate training side issues. Lord knows how this will be rolled out in big companies The mind boggles at getting the carbon blobs from sector 7G to upgrade and get back to work. As a programmer mostly on web and desktop for the moment I'm really worried about conventions and standards. For decades I've had UI guidelines and conventions about usability and how apps should look and feel and not frighten users. Then WPF came along and everything went rubbery. Now Win8 has come along and everything is melting jelly. How the hell am I supposed to write an app that runs nicely in Win8? Are there any guidelines? Multi-OS targeting issues!? These and a zillion other on-the-ground questions about writing real-world apps now. I'm am utterly bewildered where Microsoft is going both artistically and practically. Perhaps I will be less irritable and confused if someone could explain in clear developer's geeky technical practical terms why Win8 looks like it does and how I am supposed to respond to it. Any links anyone? The list of points that Ian posted are quite sharp. I also wondered why apps are full screen (on my bloody great screen), where the app menus /options/etc and close buttons are. All of the familiar paradigms that are arguably necessary in software have vanished or moved. I mean, every app needs options of some sort, and needs to be closed (unless I've woken up in the 23rd century and everything has changed utterly). I eventually managed to join my Domain somehow, but why demand a Live login up front? Alt+anykey or other weird keystrokes will do something random (like 1980s word processors). Moving the mouse around is like exploring in a maze. Hitting Windows key flips between completely different modes, like I'm running two totally different operating systems at once. Overall, I'm bewildered and angry at being reduced to a bumbling incompetent despite 35 years experience on dozens of platforms, it's like the designers of Win8 had bets on who could invent to most counter-intuitive tricks and traps possible to obfuscate everything as a gargantuan practical joke (like the Office ribbon). I'm also angry as a developer because I have no clear direction now about what to learn or what to use for Win8 (if it matters!). The future of Windows software development has become really muddy. As Homer Simpson said, it's my first day, so perhaps by next week I'll be struck by a techno-epiphany and apologise for what I've said. Greg P.S. My favourite example of Win8 bafflement is trying to figure out how to shut the damn thing down. I leave that as an exercise for the reader.
Re: Win8 Release Preview
On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:59 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Chaps, ** ** Andrew and Stephen, if you have become productive on Win8, then I am tempted to pay you for tutorials. Do have a specific example of familiar daily tasks that work in some superior way? What’s this “pinning” you like, can I try it? I hadn’t thought about the corporate training side issues. Lord knows how this will be rolled out in big companies The mind boggles at getting the carbon blobs from sector 7G to upgrade and get back to work. ** ** As a programmer mostly on web and desktop for the moment I’m really worried about conventions and standards. For decades I’ve had UI guidelines and conventions about usability and how apps should look and feel and not frighten users. Then WPF came along and everything went rubbery. Now Win8 has come along and everything is melting jelly. How the hell am I supposed to write an app that runs nicely in Win8? Are there any guidelines? Multi-OS targeting issues!? These and a zillion other on-the-ground questions about writing real-world apps now. Quite interesting questions, especially Multi-os targeting. ** ** I’m am utterly bewildered where Microsoft is going both artistically and practically. Perhaps I will be less irritable and confused if someone could explain in clear developer’s geeky technical practical terms why Win8 looks like it does and how I am supposed to respond to it. Any links anyone? ** It looks like an OS for toddlers. ** The list of points that Ian posted are quite sharp. I also wondered why apps are full screen (on my bloody great screen), where the app menus /options/etc and close buttons are. All of the familiar paradigms that are arguably necessary in software have vanished or moved. I mean, every app needs “options” of some sort, and needs to be closed (unless I’ve woken up in the 23rd century and everything has changed utterly). I eventually managed to join my Domain somehow, but why demand a Live login up front? Alt+anykey or other weird keystrokes will do something random (like 1980s word processors). Moving the mouse around is like exploring in a maze. Hitting Windows key flips between completely different modes, like I’m running two totally different operating systems at once. ** ** Overall, I’m bewildered and angry at being reduced to a bumbling incompetent despite 35 years experience on dozens of platforms, it’s like the designers of Win8 had bets on who could invent to most counter-intuitive tricks and traps possible to obfuscate everything as a gargantuan practical joke (like the Office ribbon). I’m also angry as a developer because I have no clear direction now about what to learn or what to use for Win8 (if it matters!). The future of Windows software development has become really muddy. ** ** As Homer Simpson said, “it’s my first day”, so perhaps by next week I’ll be struck by a techno-epiphany and apologise for what I’ve said. ** ** Greg ** ** P.S. My favourite example of Win8 bafflement is trying to figure out how to shut the damn thing down. I leave that as an exercise for the reader.** ** Kill the VM it's running in. Noone will run it on a real machine. -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: [OT] FYI, Large Dell Monitor Sale (again).
Yes, I have one 9. Quite good a bit slow. I used to run a small Acer Revo with that USB Screen as the only output. It's too slow for video but it's perfect for chat, skype, Grooveshark, maybe even browsing of having a task list on it. On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Dave Walker rangitat...@gmail.com wrote: Completely changing tack... Has anyone used these? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lilliput-UM1010T-Monitor-USB-powered-Screen/sim/B003DPOMAS/2 Lilliput 10 touch screen USB. On 6 Jun 2012, at 06:01, Corneliu I. Tusnea corne...@acorns.com.au wrote: The LED Monitors generate no heat. At least my Philips LEDs are as cool as the keyboard or the table. On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 9:49 AM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.comwrote: Having different sized screens takes some getting used to. Not sure my current system can drive 3 x 30monitors and I know my wallet can't. 2 x 30 might do. I'd like someone to make monitors that don't push so much heat out at you. http://pic.twitter.com/jABEc65g On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: Definitely get the same model monitors if you are doing to put them next to each other: I think you want to try to make the transition between them as seamless as possible. I’d also agree that having one large monitor is better than two smaller monitors (e.g. who’d want 2 x 15” monitors these days, compared to a single 24” monitor?) It’s just that 30” monitors (and the 27” at the same res) were significantly more expensive than 2 x 24” until recently. Lastly, I ordered this from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002R9HQLI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00. For US$35 + shipping, you can mount two monitors at what height, angle etc, and with less space used on your desk. No need to build hutches or use phone books. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Tuesday, 5 June 2012 6:00 AM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: [OT] FYI, Large Dell Monitor Sale (again). For Greg and others: If you run 2 screens move to 3 and you'll love it. Just find the right screens, make sure they are all exactly the same and have the same settings and are at the same height. You may be right, my two screens are different resolutions, slightly different sizes, at different angles and there is a 2 inch gap between them. It’s the gap that most irritating due to the frame, if only they could be tiled like paper -- Greg The gap is annoying, also the bezel. Picture all the way to the edge... -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Win8 Release Preview
Hi Greg, I feel you pain. I get that suddenly everything being different can throw you, especially when, as you said, when struggling for consistency. Tonight I rebuilt my home desktop. An evening of firsts for me. My first 6 core/12 thread cpu. My first LGA2011 motherboard. My first water cooled cpu fan. I put in a new motherboard and cpu, and an extra graphics card. So that gives me three graphics cards in there. There’s another slot on the motherboard I could put one more gfx card in but the case doesn't have the back slots for it... so I’d have to get a new case if I want to do that. Would run it in SLI x 3 but the connector they gave me don't fit the cards. a trip to the computer shop to pick one up hopefully. When I booted my machine after putting in new cpu and motherboard, the old Win 7 didn't boot. Ah well it was only installed a few weeks ago so I decided to install Windows 8 (partly after reading todays thread, but mainly because I could!) Drivers of my old graphics cards were automatically detected. the new graphics card (an Asus) wasn’t recognised. I tried the win7 drivers on asus website but that didn't work. Then I saw a windows update actually had a new driver waiting for it. I installed that and it failed. So I downloaded the Nvidia Windows 8 driver, installed that and now all three screens are working nicely. Loving the speed at which this thing boots up. Installing windows 8 was so fast I looked away and thought it had failed. Wasn't until I realised that it had rebooted from the usb drive again that it had finished. I swear it was less than 10 minutes. I’m typing this email into the email client that I pointed at my google account. Yes everything feels really big, because all the apps are full screen. I can jump to the desktop and install apps or whatever so all the old PC desktop stuff is still there. If you want to pin something first you find it via typing (search will appear when you press a letter) and right click the tile. Menu down the bottom gives pin to start option. That will give you a tile so you don't have to go looking for it. Drag it around to where you want it. Right click the ones you don't want and unpin them. This is beta software. I’ve seen the screen go all pink a couple of times and locked up. It might go better when I’ve got that SLI connector, or when the drivers are no longer beta. It seems really slick and this is on a machine with no touch screen. I did see a preview of a new tablet from Asus that has a laptop keyboard and a screen on both sides of the lid. Designed for windows 8. It looks sweet. Kinda bummed out I just bought this dell xps 13 but it might be months before the new ones come out. I’ll be due for a new toy by then! lol Hang in there Greg. I think you’ll find things more usable. Less on the screen, means more focused. You can still task switch (mouse top left and the tasks spring up). As for powering off... control-alt-delete and there’s a big off button bottom right. If you don't get this, the email client crashed on me. I’ll not be typing it again. :) cheers, Stephen (on the bleeding edge) Sent from my Windows 8 PC http://windows.microsoft.com/consumer-preview *From:* Greg Keogh g...@mira.net *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2012 8:59:37 PM *To:* ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com *Subject:* RE: Win8 Release Preview Chaps, ** ** Andrew and Stephen, if you have become productive on Win8, then I am tempted to pay you for tutorials. Do have a specific example of familiar daily tasks that work in some superior way? What’s this “pinning” you like, can I try it? I hadn’t thought about the corporate training side issues. Lord knows how this will be rolled out in big companies The mind boggles at getting the carbon blobs from sector 7G to upgrade and get back to work. ** ** As a programmer mostly on web and desktop for the moment I’m really worried about conventions and standards. For decades I’ve had UI guidelines and conventions about usability and how apps should look and feel and not frighten users. Then WPF came along and everything went rubbery. Now Win8 has come along and everything is melting jelly. How the hell am I supposed to write an app that runs nicely in Win8? Are there any guidelines? Multi-OS targeting issues!? These and a zillion other on-the-ground questions about writing real-world apps now. ** ** I’m am utterly bewildered where Microsoft is going both artistically and practically. Perhaps I will be less irritable and confused if someone could explain in clear developer’s geeky technical practical terms why Win8 looks like it does and how I am supposed to respond to it. Any links anyone? ** ** The list of points that Ian posted are quite sharp. I also wondered why apps are full screen (on my bloody great screen), where the app menus /options/etc and close buttons are. All of the familiar paradigms that are arguably necessary in software have vanished or moved. I mean, every app needs
RE: Win8 Release Preview
IMO, windows 8 is close, but it could be a lot better. I love the windows phone like UI **concept**, and I love the idea of the similarities between the different form factors, BUT the current release preview looks to me to be designed for content consumption not content creation. Where, for example, is My documents gone ? There's some weird divides between desktop and metro that really only make sense to developer geeks who understand these are different runtime platforms: but forcing that differentiation onto consumers seems wrong to me. Why should they need to care if their app is metro or not? Why do running apps all appear when you hit alt+tab, but yet only one subset appears in the windows desktop taskbar, and another subset in the metro taskbar (nb the metro taskbar only shows one of the two apps that are running if one of them is docked) I think consumers' reaction will be mixed. Tablet users (especially those with windows phones) will like win 8. Existing users of win 7 that do a lot of content creation are more likely to have that initial negative reaction like Greg posted about, one that I've seen a lot of other people express too. I do believe it can be made a lot better. The problem to me seems it's more like running metro windows with traditional windows in a VM. There needs to be better integration.. I really strongly believe that with just a handful of changes the experience could be a lot better: 1. Make the start menu screen a pivot app with pivots that include running applications, My Documents . (maybe include recent, favourites etc). The running pivot pane would include all running apps as is currently in the ALT+TAB list. 2. Get rid of the metro left pane taskbar (no longer needed if (1) is implemented, and show all apps in the windows desktop taskbar 3. Allow metro apps to be run in windows !!That is, allow them to be run in a sizeable window alongside desktop apps. (via right click menu, and allow for that preference to be saved) 4. Allow for flexible docking. The current docking for metro apps is way too limited. 5. Include the start button on the desktop, and when pressed, show the metro start menu screen but show it as not quite full screen, so as it has the appearance of a window (eg top,left at 10, bottom and right in about 20 then add a bit of a drop shadow) There's probably more that could be done to improve integration eg why doesn't the DPI settings also update the metro settings instead today you have to change metro to Large separately and Large isn't the same slight magnification as 125% is; why isn't screen resolution in computer settings, instead you have to get to it via desktop or search for control panel etc. I like the idea of simplification but the current bits feel more like duplication. Anyway, I think win 8 is close, but all the good work done behind the scenes to make windows 7 better will be lost to negative reactions to the metro addition. I'm still hoping they will make some more changes but it doesn't look like it from the preview, instead it looks like they are rushing to market (realistically only four or so months left to make Christmas for retail devices). I haven't given up hope yet though; I'm hoping for a windows 8 mango release if worse comes to worse, but will still be sad to see so much negative reaction to the first release.
Re: Win8 Release Preview
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Bill McCarthy bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au wrote: IMO, windows 8 is close, but it could be a lot better. I love the windows phone like UI **concept**, and I love the idea of the similarities between the different form factors, BUT the current release preview looks to me to be designed for content consumption not content creation. Where, for example, is My documents gone ? I find it paradoxical that we can have threads dealing with 3, 4, 5 large monitors to cater to an OS that expects a target of, at best tablet size. There's some weird divides between desktop and metro that really only make sense to developer geeks who understand these are different runtime platforms: but forcing that differentiation onto consumers seems wrong to me. Why should they need to care if their app is metro or not? Why do running apps all appear when you hit alt+tab, but yet only one subset appears in the windows desktop taskbar, and another subset in the metro taskbar (nb the metro taskbar only shows one of the two apps that are running if one of them is docked) It's all about efficient use of large screens. And Metro just isn't. I think consumers' reaction will be mixed. Tablet users (especially those with windows phones) will like win 8. Agreed. If Win8 can handle being 4th to market in a fairly mature marketplace. Being third wasn't terribly useful for us. (disclaimer, this is not the opinion of my employer, but is personal - assume this disclaimer applies to all my comments, actually.) Existing users of win 7 that do a lot of content creation are more likely to have that initial negative reaction like Greg posted about, one that I've seen a lot of other people express too. Win7 is adequate or better for desktops, Win 8 is less so. I do believe it can be made a lot better. The problem to me seems it's more like running metro windows with traditional windows in a VM. There needs to be better integration.. I really strongly believe that with just a handful of changes the experience could be a lot better: 1. Make the start menu screen a pivot app with pivots that include running applications, My Documents . (maybe include recent, favourites etc). The running pivot pane would include all running apps as is currently in the ALT+TAB list. 2. Get rid of the metro left pane taskbar (no longer needed if (1) is implemented, and show all apps in the windows desktop taskbar 3. Allow metro apps to be run in windows !!That is, allow them to be run in a sizeable window alongside desktop apps. (via right click menu, and allow for that preference to be saved) 4. Allow for flexible docking. The current docking for metro apps is way too limited. 5. Include the start button on the desktop, and when pressed, show the metro start menu screen but show it as not quite full screen, so as it has the appearance of a window (eg top,left at 10, bottom and right in about 20 then add a bit of a drop shadow) There's probably more that could be done to improve integration eg why doesn't the DPI settings also update the metro settings instead today you have to change metro to Large separately and Large isn't the same slight magnification as 125% is; why isn't screen resolution in computer settings, instead you have to get to it via desktop or search for control panel etc. I like the idea of simplification but the current bits feel more like duplication. Anyway, I think win 8 is close, but all the good work done behind the scenes to make windows 7 better will be lost to negative reactions to the metro addition. I'm still hoping they will make some more changes but it doesn't look like it from the preview, instead it looks like they are rushing to market (realistically only four or so months left to make Christmas for retail devices). I haven't given up hope yet though; I'm hoping for a windows 8 mango release if worse comes to worse, but will still be sad to see so much negative reaction to the first release. All of theses are somewhat hacks to make it perform like the previous version. -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: Win8 Release Preview
Agreed. If Win8 can handle being 4th to market in a fairly mature marketplace. You think tablets are mature market? I would think this market is still in nappies. It is still anyone's game.
Re: Win8 Release Preview
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.com wrote: Agreed. If Win8 can handle being 4th to market in a fairly mature marketplace. You think tablets are mature market? I would think this market is still in nappies. It is still anyone's game. In tech, being 2 years late to market is an eternity. -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: [OT] It's not Friday, but I've had a tough last 3 weeks ...
Love it...is it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday...etc. LOL. Agree with the idea of playing them along. I did similar to this guy, I have 5 computers, which one is faulty. Spun the guy on for about 5 minutes before he comes back with Ah, you are some sort of smart***. Bet you are jack of all trades and master of none. At that point I lost it with him and my kids heard some new words :-) Felt kind of relaxing to scream some choice language down the phone at some Indian clown. On 6 June 2012 21:18, Les Hughes l...@datarev.com.au wrote: Ian Thomas wrote: I’ve had several calls like this in the last couple of years (and my wife had one just yesterday), but this overseas call from an (Indian-accepted) “Computer Maintenance Department” was spun out to 7 minutes by one of the SMBIT guys who received it today. It lightened my mood considerably Put all your computers in your … http://www.youtube.com/watch?** v=Ht51A_AbHOYfeature=youtu.behttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht51A_AbHOYfeature=youtu.be ** Received a call today from Computer Maintenance Department trying to tell me my computer was faulty and I needed to give them access to fix it it for me. Decided to have a bit of fun. The ending was unexpected and hilarious. --**--** Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia LOL. Some people hang up on them when they make the call, I'd recommend everyone playing a game of how long can I keep you on the phone. If everyone who wised on to them tied up their time, it would work somewhat like a scammer-DDOS. Something else worth doing: if you are being phished via email, check that the URL has no identifying details (so they know it came from your email address) and fill out the form with fake info. If everyone filled out BS in those forms, it would once again eat up the time of these people, and perhaps help the banks see suspect logins when there are several failures on non-existent accounts from a certain IP address/range. http://www.419eater.com/ is a website where the scammer gets scammed. Somewhat amusing if you have the time to take a look. -- Les Hughes l...@datarev.com.au
RE: Win8 Release Preview
Totally agree. I still can’t make up my mind which one I want. They all have strengths and weaknesses. I’m loving the look of the Asus Taichi (I think that's the spelling?) which is like a clamshell laptop. Laptop when you need it, with screen on both sides (which both can be used at same time with mirror). Tablet when you want it and looks super thin. I’m a PC. If I could get a PC in iPad form (and I mean battery life, performance and light) then I’m there. Sent from my Windows 8 PC http://windows.microsoft.com/consumer-preview *From:* Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.com *Sent:* Thursday, June 7, 2012 7:24:21 AM *To:* ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com *Subject:* Re: Win8 Release Preview Agreed. If Win8 can handle being 4th to market in a fairly mature marketplace. You think tablets are mature market? I would think this market is still in nappies. It is still anyone's game.
Re: [OT] It's not Friday, but I've had a tough last 3 weeks ...
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:36 AM, Iain Carlin cut...@gmail.com wrote: Love it...is it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday...etc. LOL. Agree with the idea of playing them along. I did similar to this guy, I have 5 computers, which one is faulty. Spun the guy on for about 5 minutes before he comes back with Ah, you are some sort of smart***. Bet you are jack of all trades and master of none. At that point I lost it with him and my kids heard some new words :-) Felt kind of relaxing to scream some choice language down the phone at some Indian clown. They bothered my mum. So I got her an iMac. Convo starts You've got a Windows computer NO From there it's downhill for them. I suppose eventually they'll get a script for Apples. Anyone know some good Indian swear words to use on the phone? -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: Win8 Release Preview
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Bill McCarthy bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au wrote: IMO, windows 8 is close, but it could be a lot better. I love the windows phone like UI **concept**, and I love the idea of the similarities between the different form factors, BUT the current release preview looks to me to be designed for content consumption not content creation. Where, for example, is My documents gone ? I think you're right - it is very close. The problem is that there is a lot of traditional desktop functionality that has become a casualty of MS' iPad fear. I reckon if the start menu came back and they got rid of the need for hot spots in the corners it could be a lot more usable. Metro vs desktop apps schism is pretty difficult to live with. -- David Connors da...@connors.me
Re: Win8 Release Preview
You think tablets are mature market? I would think this market is still in nappies. It is still anyone's game. In tech, being 2 years late to market is an eternity. I don't really agree. Windows was late to market and became leader. Excel and Word were late and became leader. iPad was late and became leader. iPhone was late and became leader, until Android which was later and is now leader.
RE: Win8 Release Preview
|Win7 is adequate or better for desktops, Win 8 is less so. | Nope. That you think that is the problem with the detached start menu experience. |All of theses are somewhat hacks to make it perform like the previous version. | They are design changes, and yes they would make the transition to the newer UI features smoother for those coming from win 7. The goal of win 8 is mighty as it tries to find that point of convergence between different form factors. I think they've overshot the mark a bit and need to tune it back to a happier medium. |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith |Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 9:19 AM |To: ozDotNet |Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview | |On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Bill McCarthy bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au |wrote: | | | IMO, windows 8 is close, but it could be a lot better. I love the windows | phone like UI **concept**, and I love the idea of the similarities between | the different form factors, BUT the current release preview looks to me |to | be designed for content consumption not content creation. Where, for | example, is My documents gone ? | | | | |I find it paradoxical that we can have threads dealing with 3, 4, 5 large monitors |to cater to an OS that expects a target of, at best tablet size. | | | There's some weird divides between desktop and metro that really |only | make sense to developer geeks who understand these are different |runtime | platforms: but forcing that differentiation onto consumers seems wrong |to | me. Why should they need to care if their app is metro or not? Why do | running apps all appear when you hit alt+tab, but yet only one subset | appears in the windows desktop taskbar, and another subset in the |metro | taskbar (nb the metro taskbar only shows one of the two apps that are | running if one of them is docked) | | | |It's all about efficient use of large screens. And Metro just isn't. | | | | I think consumers' reaction will be mixed. Tablet users (especially those | with windows phones) will like win 8. | | |Agreed. If Win8 can handle being 4th to market in a fairly mature marketplace. |Being third wasn't terribly useful for us. (disclaimer, this is not the opinion of my |employer, but is personal - assume this disclaimer applies to all my comments, |actually.) | | |Existing users of win 7 that do a lot | of content creation are more likely to have that initial negative reaction | like Greg posted about, one that I've seen a lot of other people express | too. | | | | |Win7 is adequate or better for desktops, Win 8 is less so. | | | I do believe it can be made a lot better. The problem to me seems it's |more | like running metro windows with traditional windows in a VM. There |needs | to be better integration.. | | I really strongly believe that with just a handful of changes the experience | could be a lot better: | | 1. Make the start menu screen a pivot app with pivots that include |running | applications, My Documents . (maybe include recent, favourites etc). |The | running pivot pane would include all running apps as is currently in the | ALT+TAB list. | | 2. Get rid of the metro left pane taskbar (no longer needed if (1) is | implemented, and show all apps in the windows desktop taskbar | | 3. Allow metro apps to be run in windows !!That is, allow them to be |run | in a sizeable window alongside desktop apps. (via right click menu, and | allow for that preference to be saved) | | 4. Allow for flexible docking. The current docking for metro apps is way | too limited. | | 5. Include the start button on the desktop, and when pressed, show the |metro | start menu screen but show it as not quite full screen, so as it has the | appearance of a window (eg top,left at 10, bottom and right in about 20 |then | add a bit of a drop shadow) | | | There's probably more that could be done to improve integration eg why | doesn't the DPI settings also update the metro settings instead today you | have to change metro to Large separately and Large isn't the same |slight | magnification as 125% is; why isn't screen resolution in computer |settings, | instead you have to get to it via desktop or search for control panel etc. I | like the idea of simplification but the current bits feel more like | duplication. | | Anyway, I think win 8 is close, but all the good work done behind the |scenes | to make windows 7 better will be lost to negative reactions to the metro | addition. I'm still hoping they will make some more changes but it doesn't | look like it from the preview, instead it looks like they are rushing to | market
Re: [OT] It's not Friday, but I've had a tough last 3 weeks ...
I'm sure they understand all English swear words mate :) Just try ... On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:41 AM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:36 AM, Iain Carlin cut...@gmail.com wrote: Love it...is it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday...etc. LOL. Agree with the idea of playing them along. I did similar to this guy, I have 5 computers, which one is faulty. Spun the guy on for about 5 minutes before he comes back with Ah, you are some sort of smart***. Bet you are jack of all trades and master of none. At that point I lost it with him and my kids heard some new words :-) Felt kind of relaxing to scream some choice language down the phone at some Indian clown. They bothered my mum. So I got her an iMac. Convo starts You've got a Windows computer NO From there it's downhill for them. I suppose eventually they'll get a script for Apples. Anyone know some good Indian swear words to use on the phone? -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Win8 Release Preview
I'm not sure I get the yearning for a start menu. Maybe I use it differently from others, but the metro screen lays out my commonly used apps nicely, and anything else I need I can find just by typing the first couple of letters of its name. The metro screen comes to the front when I hit the Windows button (like the start menu does in 7) and all my keyboard shortcuts work (and then some). Andrew Coates, ME, MCPD, MCSD MCTS, Developer Evangelist, Microsoft, 1 Epping Road, NORTH RYDE NSW 2113 Ph: +61 (2) 9870 2719 * Mob +61 (416) 134 993 * Fax: +61 (2) 9870 2400 * http://blogs.msdn.com/acoat From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 9:41 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Bill McCarthy bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.aumailto:bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au wrote: IMO, windows 8 is close, but it could be a lot better. I love the windows phone like UI **concept**, and I love the idea of the similarities between the different form factors, BUT the current release preview looks to me to be designed for content consumption not content creation. Where, for example, is My documents gone ? I think you're right - it is very close. The problem is that there is a lot of traditional desktop functionality that has become a casualty of MS' iPad fear. I reckon if the start menu came back and they got rid of the need for hot spots in the corners it could be a lot more usable. Metro vs desktop apps schism is pretty difficult to live with. -- David Connors da...@connors.memailto:da...@connors.me
Re: Win8 Release Preview
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Andrew Coates (DPE AUSTRALIA) andrew.coa...@microsoft.com wrote: I’m not sure I get the yearning for a start menu. Maybe I use it differently from others, but the metro screen lays out my commonly used apps nicely, and anything else I need I can find just by typing the first couple of letters of its name. The metro screen comes to the front when I hit the Windows button (like the start menu does in 7) and all my keyboard shortcuts work (and then some). ** I agree with you. The start menu had run it's course. Think of it like this, once you have more than half a dozen programs installed navigating the start menu becomes a nightmare. Trying to navigate through multiple menu levels, remember which option was in which folder. It is painful. The most efficient way to use the start menu is to click on it and type the name of what you want to run. Type 'word' and Microsoft word will pop up, type 'Control Pa..' and the control panel will pop up. This is exactly how the new start screen works. Cut out the rubbish multi level menus and just type what you want. It's so easy. You can navigate manually with the mouse, which is painful. But no more painful than the current start menu, just different. Craig
Re: Win8 Release Preview
http://media.bestofmicro.com/E/F/329703/original/4667.Keyboard_2D00_shortcuts_2D00_for_2D00_Windows_2D00_8_5F00_5756566F.png helps Win+Q = search for apps Win+W = search for settings Win+F = search for files The the first one is the equivalent of the search thingo in the start menu most power users are familiar with. On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Andrew Coates (DPE AUSTRALIA) andrew.coa...@microsoft.com wrote: I’m not sure I get the yearning for a start menu. Maybe I use it differently from others, but the metro screen lays out my commonly used apps nicely, and anything else I need I can find just by typing the first couple of letters of its name. The metro screen comes to the front when I hit the Windows button (like the start menu does in 7) and all my keyboard shortcuts work (and then some). ** ** Andrew Coates, ME, MCPD, MCSD MCTS, Developer Evangelist, Microsoft, 1 Epping Road, NORTH RYDE NSW 2113 Ph: +61 (2) 9870 2719 • Mob +61 (416) 134 993 • Fax: +61 (2) 9870 2400 • http://blogs.msdn.com/acoat ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors *Sent:* Thursday, 7 June 2012 9:41 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Win8 Release Preview ** ** On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Bill McCarthy bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au wrote: IMO, windows 8 is close, but it could be a lot better. I love the windows phone like UI **concept**, and I love the idea of the similarities between the different form factors, BUT the current release preview looks to me to be designed for content consumption not content creation. Where, for example, is My documents gone ? ** ** I think you're right - it is very close. The problem is that there is a lot of traditional desktop functionality that has become a casualty of MS' iPad fear. ** ** I reckon if the start menu came back and they got rid of the need for hot spots in the corners it could be a lot more usable. ** ** Metro vs desktop apps schism is pretty difficult to live with. ** ** -- David Connors da...@connors.me -- David Connors da...@connors.me
RE: Win8 Release Preview
Typing the first couple of letters works well in windows 7 too ;) The problem with the new start menu is the complete lack of My Documents. Recent mia. Removing the start menu button form the desktop taskbar adds nothing to the user experience, just makes the experience a little less familiar. Not having all apps appear in the taskbar makes it harder to task swap (it's like there's two taskbars instead of one) Not being able to run some apps in a window makes the Burdon on the end user to know the difference between certain kinds of apps. |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Coates (DPE AUSTRALIA) |Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 9:58 AM |To: ozDotNet |Subject: RE: Win8 Release Preview | |I'm not sure I get the yearning for a start menu. Maybe I use it differently from |others, but the metro screen lays out my commonly used apps nicely, and |anything else I need I can find just by typing the first couple of letters of its name. |The metro screen comes to the front when I hit the Windows button (like the |start menu does in 7) and all my keyboard shortcuts work (and then some). | | | |Andrew Coates, ME, MCPD, MCSD MCTS, Developer Evangelist, Microsoft, 1 |Epping Road, NORTH RYDE NSW 2113 |Ph: +61 (2) 9870 2719 . Mob +61 (416) 134 993 . Fax: +61 (2) 9870 2400 . |http://blogs.msdn.com/acoat http://blogs.msdn.com/acoat | | | |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors |Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 9:41 AM |To: ozDotNet |Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview | | | |On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Bill McCarthy bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au |wrote: | |IMO, windows 8 is close, but it could be a lot better. I love the windows phone |like UI **concept**, and I love the idea of the similarities between the different |form factors, BUT the current release preview looks to me to be designed for |content consumption not content creation. Where, for example, is My |documents gone ? | | | |I think you're right - it is very close. The problem is that there is a lot of traditional |desktop functionality that has become a casualty of MS' iPad fear. | | | |I reckon if the start menu came back and they got rid of the need for hot spots in |the corners it could be a lot more usable. | | | |Metro vs desktop apps schism is pretty difficult to live with. | | | |-- |David Connors |da...@connors.me
Re: [OT] It's not Friday, but I've had a tough last 3 weeks ...
I'm sure they understand all English swear words mate :) Just try ... Nop, That is not recomended, for follwoing reasons: The scammers have your details, they might decide to move you to their VIP list or god knows what ever other evil scham list they might have. After all they are criminals and last thing honest people need is to have any more interaction with shady types than the absolute minimum. Just pretend they are selling a service you are not intrested in and move on, scams work statistically, and no matter how many people decide to do something about it they just move shop and methods. Do a read on scham histories their methods and techniques, they are just an industry ( of artistic/creative/illegal/immoral type) that have existsted and will continue to exist due to the very human nature. Maybe somebody can offer them a legit job, after all people will tend towards honest work if they are given the chance, here is an inspriring story : http://www.michaelcarwile.com/inspiring-man-gives-coat-to-his-mugger/ Curse the cause that makes people go down into the illegit path not the people, people can always change if only given the chance. Regards Arjang On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:41 AM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:36 AM, Iain Carlin cut...@gmail.com wrote: Love it...is it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday...etc. LOL. Agree with the idea of playing them along. I did similar to this guy, I have 5 computers, which one is faulty. Spun the guy on for about 5 minutes before he comes back with Ah, you are some sort of smart***. Bet you are jack of all trades and master of none. At that point I lost it with him and my kids heard some new words :-) Felt kind of relaxing to scream some choice language down the phone at some Indian clown. They bothered my mum. So I got her an iMac. Convo starts You've got a Windows computer NO From there it's downhill for them. I suppose eventually they'll get a script for Apples. Anyone know some good Indian swear words to use on the phone? -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: [OT] It's not Friday, but I've had a tough last 3 weeks ...
Arjang, The scammers don't have your details. They randomly dial numbers :) Just ask them: Who did you call? What's my name? What's my address? and they bugger out :) A quicker escape is Me not speaking English. Me not speaking English. :) That actually even works with the guys knocking at the door selling different churches or better gas/electricity plans. You only have to say it about 5-6 times with a big smile and shaking your head and you'r done :) Corneliu. On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Arjang Assadi arjang.ass...@gmail.comwrote: I'm sure they understand all English swear words mate :) Just try ... Nop, That is not recomended, for follwoing reasons: The scammers have your details, they might decide to move you to their VIP list or god knows what ever other evil scham list they might have. After all they are criminals and last thing honest people need is to have any more interaction with shady types than the absolute minimum. Just pretend they are selling a service you are not intrested in and move on, scams work statistically, and no matter how many people decide to do something about it they just move shop and methods. Do a read on scham histories their methods and techniques, they are just an industry ( of artistic/creative/illegal/immoral type) that have existsted and will continue to exist due to the very human nature. Maybe somebody can offer them a legit job, after all people will tend towards honest work if they are given the chance, here is an inspriring story : http://www.michaelcarwile.com/inspiring-man-gives-coat-to-his-mugger/ Curse the cause that makes people go down into the illegit path not the people, people can always change if only given the chance. Regards Arjang On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:41 AM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:36 AM, Iain Carlin cut...@gmail.com wrote: Love it...is it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday...etc. LOL. Agree with the idea of playing them along. I did similar to this guy, I have 5 computers, which one is faulty. Spun the guy on for about 5 minutes before he comes back with Ah, you are some sort of smart***. Bet you are jack of all trades and master of none. At that point I lost it with him and my kids heard some new words :-) Felt kind of relaxing to scream some choice language down the phone at some Indian clown. They bothered my mum. So I got her an iMac. Convo starts You've got a Windows computer NO From there it's downhill for them. I suppose eventually they'll get a script for Apples. Anyone know some good Indian swear words to use on the phone? -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Win8 Release Preview
I fear the new start screen will get just as messy as the old start menu did. In fact, the lack of folders or popups from the start menu will mean a lot of horizontal scrolling will be needed for traditional desktops. |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Craig van Nieuwkerk |Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 10:09 AM |To: ozDotNet |Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview | | | |On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Andrew Coates (DPE AUSTRALIA) |andrew.coa...@microsoft.com wrote: | | | I'm not sure I get the yearning for a start menu. Maybe I use it differently |from others, but the metro screen lays out my commonly used apps nicely, and |anything else I need I can find just by typing the first couple of letters of its name. |The metro screen comes to the front when I hit the Windows button (like the |start menu does in 7) and all my keyboard shortcuts work (and then some). | | | | |I agree with you. The start menu had run it's course. Think of it like this, once you |have more than half a dozen programs installed navigating the start menu |becomes a nightmare. Trying to navigate through multiple menu levels, |remember which option was in which folder. It is painful. The most efficient way |to use the start menu is to click on it and type the name of what you want to run. |Type 'word' and Microsoft word will pop up, type 'Control Pa..' and the control |panel will pop up. This is exactly how the new start screen works. Cut out the |rubbish multi level menus and just type what you want. It's so easy. You can |navigate manually with the mouse, which is painful. But no more painful than the |current start menu, just different. | |Craig
RE: Win8 Release Preview
There's a bug with that at present you can cycle from Win+Q to Win+W and Win+F nd between Win+F and Win+W but not back to Win+Q |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors |Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 10:10 AM |To: ozDotNet |Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview | |http://media.bestofmicro.com/E/F/329703/original/4667.Keyboard_2D00_short |cuts_2D00_for_2D00_Windows_2D00_8_5F00_5756566F.png helps | |Win+Q = search for apps |Win+W = search for settings |Win+F = search for files | |The the first one is the equivalent of the search thingo in the start menu most |power users are familiar with. | | |On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Andrew Coates (DPE AUSTRALIA) |andrew.coa...@microsoft.com wrote: | | | I'm not sure I get the yearning for a start menu. Maybe I use it differently |from others, but the metro screen lays out my commonly used apps nicely, and |anything else I need I can find just by typing the first couple of letters of its name. |The metro screen comes to the front when I hit the Windows button (like the |start menu does in 7) and all my keyboard shortcuts work (and then some). | | | | Andrew Coates, ME, MCPD, MCSD MCTS, Developer Evangelist, |Microsoft, 1 Epping Road, NORTH RYDE NSW 2113 | Ph: +61 (2) 9870 2719 tel:%2B61%20%282%29%209870%202719 . |Mob +61 (416) 134 993 tel:%2B61%20%28416%29%20134%20993 . Fax: +61 |(2) 9870 2400 tel:%2B61%20%282%29%209870%202400 . |http://blogs.msdn.com/acoat http://blogs.msdn.com/acoat | | | | From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors | Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 9:41 AM | | | To: ozDotNet | Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview | | | | | | On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Bill McCarthy |bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au wrote: | | IMO, windows 8 is close, but it could be a lot better. I love the windows | phone like UI **concept**, and I love the idea of the similarities between | the different form factors, BUT the current release preview looks to me |to | be designed for content consumption not content creation. Where, for | example, is My documents gone ? | | | | I think you're right - it is very close. The problem is that there is a lot of |traditional desktop functionality that has become a casualty of MS' iPad fear. | | | | I reckon if the start menu came back and they got rid of the need for hot |spots in the corners it could be a lot more usable. | | | | Metro vs desktop apps schism is pretty difficult to live with. | | | | | | -- | David Connors | da...@connors.me | | | | |-- |David Connors |da...@connors.me
Re: Win8 Release Preview
Only if you navigate by mouse. Type, don't click. On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Bill McCarthy bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au wrote: I fear the new start screen will get just as messy as the old start menu did. In fact, the lack of folders or popups from the start menu will mean a lot of horizontal scrolling will be needed for traditional desktops.
Re: Win8 Release Preview
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.com wrote: You think tablets are mature market? I would think this market is still in nappies. It is still anyone's game. In tech, being 2 years late to market is an eternity. I don't really agree. Windows was late to market and became leader. Excel and Word were late and became leader. iPad was late and became leader. iPhone was late and became leader, until Android which was later and is now leader. Some of the examples there span DOS/CLI - GUI, a fundamental shift. We're talking another such shift here, but is it needed or wanted? Metro's a good idea for a pad/phone, but is it good enough to make space in a market that has iOS and Android? It's not really needed for a desktop. I see what Microsoft want, a seamless environment that can cover all, and include Office, most likely. Will it really be seamless between a horizontally used touch display, and a vertically used display with mouse? -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: Win8 Release Preview
I installed win95 on my home pc when I was a teenager. After about 1/2 hour of not understanding the differences the impatient teenager in me went back to dos and typed deltree win95... Since then I've decided to embrace the fact that there's generally pretty good reasons why big movers like MS Apple make the decisions they do and I learnt to accept the fact that the cheese moves, regularly, and that I should either move with it or go find something else that I like better. MS is trying to make the platform better for the consumer, just like we're trying to make apps, sites, whatever work the best that we can for the users. Obviously they have an interest in keeping everyone happy (inc devs) but the consumers are the ones driving the market so it's up to us to go with the flow, keep up and embrace the changes. There are choices if one day I decide that I don't enjoy my job, or I can make more money doing something else. On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.comwrote: Only if you navigate by mouse. Type, don't click. On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Bill McCarthy bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au wrote: I fear the new start screen will get just as messy as the old start menu did. In fact, the lack of folders or popups from the start menu will mean a lot of horizontal scrolling will be needed for traditional desktops.
Re: Win8 Release Preview
I just started thinking of that metro screen as a full-screen start menu and my yearning for one went away. Joseph On 07/06/2012, at 9:58 AM, Andrew Coates (DPE AUSTRALIA) andrew.coa...@microsoft.com wrote: I’m not sure I get the yearning for a start menu. Maybe I use it differently from others, but the metro screen lays out my commonly used apps nicely, and anything else I need I can find just by typing the first couple of letters of its name. The metro screen comes to the front when I hit the Windows button (like the start menu does in 7) and all my keyboard shortcuts work (and then some). Andrew Coates, ME, MCPD, MCSD MCTS, Developer Evangelist, Microsoft, 1 Epping Road, NORTH RYDE NSW 2113 Ph: +61 (2) 9870 2719 • Mob +61 (416) 134 993 • Fax: +61 (2) 9870 2400 • http://blogs.msdn.com/acoat From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 9:41 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Bill McCarthy bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au wrote: IMO, windows 8 is close, but it could be a lot better. I love the windows phone like UI **concept**, and I love the idea of the similarities between the different form factors, BUT the current release preview looks to me to be designed for content consumption not content creation. Where, for example, is My documents gone ? I think you're right - it is very close. The problem is that there is a lot of traditional desktop functionality that has become a casualty of MS' iPad fear. I reckon if the start menu came back and they got rid of the need for hot spots in the corners it could be a lot more usable. Metro vs desktop apps schism is pretty difficult to live with. -- David Connors da...@connors.me
Re: [OT] It's not Friday, but I've had a tough last 3 weeks ...
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Corneliu I. Tusnea corne...@acorns.com.au wrote: Arjang, The scammers don't have your details. They randomly dial numbers :) Just ask them: Who did you call? What's my name? What's my address? and they bugger out :) Since they seem to think that its a problem with your computer, a request for the ip address might be a good start... A quicker escape is Me not speaking English. Me not speaking English. :) That actually even works with the guys knocking at the door selling different churches or better gas/electricity plans. You only have to say it about 5-6 times with a big smile and shaking your head and you'r done :) Corneliu. On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Arjang Assadi arjang.ass...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure they understand all English swear words mate :) Just try ... Nop, That is not recomended, for follwoing reasons: The scammers have your details, they might decide to move you to their VIP list or god knows what ever other evil scham list they might have. After all they are criminals and last thing honest people need is to have any more interaction with shady types than the absolute minimum. Just pretend they are selling a service you are not intrested in and move on, scams work statistically, and no matter how many people decide to do something about it they just move shop and methods. Do a read on scham histories their methods and techniques, they are just an industry ( of artistic/creative/illegal/immoral type) that have existsted and will continue to exist due to the very human nature. Maybe somebody can offer them a legit job, after all people will tend towards honest work if they are given the chance, here is an inspriring story : http://www.michaelcarwile.com/inspiring-man-gives-coat-to-his-mugger/ Curse the cause that makes people go down into the illegit path not the people, people can always change if only given the chance. Regards Arjang On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:41 AM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:36 AM, Iain Carlin cut...@gmail.com wrote: Love it...is it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday...etc. LOL. Agree with the idea of playing them along. I did similar to this guy, I have 5 computers, which one is faulty. Spun the guy on for about 5 minutes before he comes back with Ah, you are some sort of smart***. Bet you are jack of all trades and master of none. At that point I lost it with him and my kids heard some new words :-) Felt kind of relaxing to scream some choice language down the phone at some Indian clown. They bothered my mum. So I got her an iMac. Convo starts You've got a Windows computer NO From there it's downhill for them. I suppose eventually they'll get a script for Apples. Anyone know some good Indian swear words to use on the phone? -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: [OT] It's not Friday, but I've had a tough last 3 weeks ...
On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Les Hughes l...@datarev.com.au wrote: Ian Thomas wrote: I’ve had several calls like this in the last couple of years (and my wife had one just yesterday), but this overseas call from an (Indian-accepted) “Computer Maintenance Department” was spun out to 7 minutes by one of the SMBIT guys who received it today. It lightened my mood considerably Put all your computers in your … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht51A_AbHOYfeature=youtu.be Received a call today from Computer Maintenance Department trying to tell me my computer was faulty and I needed to give them access to fix it it for me. Decided to have a bit of fun. The ending was unexpected and hilarious. Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia LOL. Some people hang up on them when they make the call, I'd recommend everyone playing a game of how long can I keep you on the phone. If everyone who wised on to them tied up their time, it would work somewhat like a scammer-DDOS. I usually just tell them to hang on a minute and don't go back to the phone for about 10 mins by which time they've hung up Something else worth doing: if you are being phished via email, check that the URL has no identifying details (so they know it came from your email address) and fill out the form with fake info. If everyone filled out BS in those forms, it would once again eat up the time of these people, and perhaps help the banks see suspect logins when there are several failures on non-existent accounts from a certain IP address/range. http://www.419eater.com/ is a website where the scammer gets scammed. Somewhat amusing if you have the time to take a look. -- Les Hughes l...@datarev.com.au
Re: [OT] It's not Friday, but I've had a tough last 3 weeks ...
I usually just tell them to hang on a minute and don't go back to the phone for about 10 mins by which time they've hung up My wife usually says hang on, then hands the phone to my 3 year old for a chat.
RE: [OT] It's not Friday, but I've had a tough last 3 weeks ...
Most are also paid on how quickly they process calls. I see lots of people tell them that they need to talk to X where X is some random name and that they'll put them through to them but then just put them on hold permanently seems to work well at stopping them coming back too often. Of course, this was always a pretty funny solution too: http://www.engadget.com/2005/09/12/the-telecrapper-2000/ http://www.engadget.com/2005/09/12/the-telecrapper-2000/ Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax SQL Down Under | Web: http://www.sqldownunder.com/ www.sqldownunder.com From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Arjang Assadi Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 10:25 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] It's not Friday, but I've had a tough last 3 weeks ... I'm sure they understand all English swear words mate :) Just try ... Nop, That is not recomended, for follwoing reasons: The scammers have your details, they might decide to move you to their VIP list or god knows what ever other evil scham list they might have. After all they are criminals and last thing honest people need is to have any more interaction with shady types than the absolute minimum. Just pretend they are selling a service you are not intrested in and move on, scams work statistically, and no matter how many people decide to do something about it they just move shop and methods. Do a read on scham histories their methods and techniques, they are just an industry ( of artistic/creative/illegal/immoral type) that have existsted and will continue to exist due to the very human nature. Maybe somebody can offer them a legit job, after all people will tend towards honest work if they are given the chance, here is an inspriring story : http://www.michaelcarwile.com/inspiring-man-gives-coat-to-his-mugger/ Curse the cause that makes people go down into the illegit path not the people, people can always change if only given the chance. Regards Arjang On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:41 AM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:36 AM, Iain Carlin cut...@gmail.com wrote: Love it...is it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday...etc. LOL. Agree with the idea of playing them along. I did similar to this guy, I have 5 computers, which one is faulty. Spun the guy on for about 5 minutes before he comes back with Ah, you are some sort of smart***. Bet you are jack of all trades and master of none. At that point I lost it with him and my kids heard some new words :-) Felt kind of relaxing to scream some choice language down the phone at some Indian clown. They bothered my mum. So I got her an iMac. Convo starts You've got a Windows computer NO From there it's downhill for them. I suppose eventually they'll get a script for Apples. Anyone know some good Indian swear words to use on the phone? -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Win8 Release Preview
And that as said previously is the same in windows 7. So the notion that the new start menu addresses the problem with too many entries on the old start menu is false. |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Craig van Nieuwkerk |Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 10:39 AM |To: ozDotNet |Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview | |Only if you navigate by mouse. Type, don't click. | | |On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Bill McCarthy bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au |wrote: | | | I fear the new start screen will get just as messy as the old start menu | did. In fact, the lack of folders or popups from the start menu will mean a | lot of horizontal scrolling will be needed for traditional desktops. | |
Re: Win8 Release Preview
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Greg Kennedy gkenne...@gmail.com wrote: I installed win95 on my home pc when I was a teenager. After about 1/2 hour of not understanding the differences the impatient teenager in me went back to dos and typed deltree win95... Heh. I've been using Windows since about version 1 or 2 (when were the versions different for different processors 286/386?) I've always been at least somewhat enthusiastic about succeeding versions, (well, maybe not Millennium Edition)) but I'm looking at 8 with distinct apprehension, given I'm likely to have to code for it) Since then I've decided to embrace the fact that there's generally pretty good reasons why big movers like MS Apple make the decisions they do and I Almost an appeal to authority there. learnt to accept the fact that the cheese moves, regularly, and that I should either move with it or go find something else that I like better. MS is trying to make the platform better for the consumer, just like we're Perhaps the first-time user. But making a consumer re-learn? We're likely to be the most computer-literate portion of the market, if there's dissent here I can scarcely imagine how users that have to think about how to start an app are going to feel. trying to make apps, sites, whatever work the best that we can for the users. Obviously they have an interest in keeping everyone happy (inc devs) but the consumers are the ones driving the market so it's up to us to go with the flow, keep up and embrace the changes. There are choices if one day I decide that I don't enjoy my job, or I can make more money doing something else. Unlikely. On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.com wrote: Only if you navigate by mouse. Type, don't click. And if it's a tablet? On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Bill McCarthy bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au wrote: I fear the new start screen will get just as messy as the old start menu did. In fact, the lack of folders or popups from the start menu will mean a lot of horizontal scrolling will be needed for traditional desktops. -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Win8 Release Preview
It is, but how you get to it and what it contains is different. Live tiles are nice (pity they don't apply to desktop apps including outlook), but we've lost recent, popup folders; and we've got to go different ways to find different settings; are faced with two taskbars instead of one; and the end user needs to know if the application they are running is windows or windows RT based to know which taskbar to look in. Like I said, it's close, but as is it's going to a get a massive negative consumer backlash for desktop machines; and probably an even more massive wait and see from corporate use. Imagine all the documents that have to be changed to remove references to clicking on the start button ;) |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Cooney |Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 10:43 AM |To: ozDotNet |Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview | |I just started thinking of that metro screen as a full-screen start menu and my |yearning for one went away. | |Joseph | |On 07/06/2012, at 9:58 AM, Andrew Coates (DPE AUSTRALIA) |andrew.coa...@microsoft.com wrote: | | | | I’m not sure I get the yearning for a start menu. Maybe I use it differently |from others, but the metro screen lays out my commonly used apps nicely, and |anything else I need I can find just by typing the first couple of letters of its name. |The metro screen comes to the front when I hit the Windows button (like the |start menu does in 7) and all my keyboard shortcuts work (and then some). | | | | Andrew Coates, ME, MCPD, MCSD MCTS, Developer Evangelist, |Microsoft, 1 Epping Road, NORTH RYDE NSW 2113 | Ph: +61 (2) 9870 2719 • Mob +61 (416) 134 993 • Fax: +61 (2) 9870 2400 • |http://blogs.msdn.com/acoat http://blogs.msdn.com/acoat | | | | From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors | Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 9:41 AM | To: ozDotNet | Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview | | | | On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Bill McCarthy |bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au wrote: | | IMO, windows 8 is close, but it could be a lot better. I love the windows | phone like UI **concept**, and I love the idea of the similarities between | the different form factors, BUT the current release preview looks to me |to | be designed for content consumption not content creation. Where, for | example, is My documents gone ? | | | | I think you're right - it is very close. The problem is that there is a lot of |traditional desktop functionality that has become a casualty of MS' iPad fear. | | | | I reckon if the start menu came back and they got rid of the need for hot |spots in the corners it could be a lot more usable. | | | | Metro vs desktop apps schism is pretty difficult to live with. | | | | -- | David Connors | da...@connors.me
Re: Win8 Release Preview
Popup's on a phone or tablet? On my Windows Phone I have never seem a popup dialog. And on my iPad popup alerts are pretty simple to click. On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Bill McCarthy bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au wrote: Well worse. Popups area lot more keyboard/mouse friendly than having to horizontally scroll
Re: Win8 Release Preview
Only if you navigate by mouse. Type, don't click. And if it's a tablet? Swipe and touch. I have a three year old that mastered it a day. My one year old is already getting the hang of it. It is sooo easy. This whole discussion reminds me of when Office 2007 came out and everyone cried that office workers the world over would be dumb founded. Guess what, after 5 minutes they all worked it out.
RE: Win8 Release Preview
You totally missed the point that on the desktop you will have to horizontally scroll. Windows 8 is NOT windows phone. Screens sizes are massively different. Windows 8 requires a minimum of 1024 x 768, or 1366 x 768 to include snap. The design of windows 8 is for an experience convergence not lowest common denominator. |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Craig van Nieuwkerk |Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 11:06 AM |To: ozDotNet |Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview | |Popup's on a phone or tablet? On my Windows Phone I have never seem a popup |dialog. And on my iPad popup alerts are pretty simple to click. | | |On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Bill McCarthy bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au |wrote: | | | Well worse. Popups area lot more keyboard/mouse friendly than having |to | horizontally scroll | |
Re: Win8 Release Preview
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Bill McCarthy bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au wrote: You totally missed the point that on the desktop you will have to horizontally scroll. You don't have to horizontally scroll, just type what you want.
RE: Win8 Release Preview
So vertical wheel scrolls horizontally ? I wondered what the design was for the news reader app which is a pain to scroll on my laptop. Admittedly I'm using VMWare to run it so the touchpad experience is not good. |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nick Randolph |Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 11:10 AM |To: ozDotNet |Subject: RE: Win8 Release Preview | |You know that the mouse wheel will scroll horizontally on the start screen, right? | |Nick Randolph | Built to Roam Pty Ltd | Microsoft MVP - Windows Phone |Development | +61 412 413 425 | @btroam The information contained in this |email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose |or use the information in this email in any way. Built to Roam Pty Ltd does not |guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions |expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Built |to Roam Pty Ltd. | | |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Bill McCarthy |Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 11:03 AM |To: 'ozDotNet' |Subject: RE: Win8 Release Preview | |Well worse. Popups area lot more keyboard/mouse friendly than having to |horizontally scroll | ||-Original Message- ||From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- ||boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Craig van Nieuwkerk ||Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 10:58 AM ||To: ozDotNet ||Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview || ||Exactly. It hasn't fixed the problem of manual navigation, just changed it. |But in ||the process made it more tablet/phone friendly. || || ||On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Bill McCarthy |bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au ||wrote: || || || And that as said previously is the same in windows 7. So the notion |that ||the || new start menu addresses the problem with too many entries on the |old ||start || menu is false. || || |
RE: Win8 Release Preview
The issue when building for Win8 is that you have to think about all the possible forms of input. The guidelines are actually pretty good (sorry Greg, you indicated that you thought it's more confusing now, I completely disagree as the metro guidelines are very strong) but it's easy to overlook mouse, keyboard, touch, scroll etc. Suspect that might have been the case with the news reader... Personally I wasn't a big fan of the move to horizontal scrolling to start with - we've all been so conditioned to scanning lists vertically it's a bit of a mind shift to work horizontally. I do understand the change and actually think it makes for better touch-first apps. As has been pointed out already, this doesn't always mean that they're optimised for those of us who are desk bound. Nick Randolph | Built to Roam Pty Ltd | Microsoft MVP - Windows Phone Development | +61 412 413 425 | @btroam The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email in any way. Built to Roam Pty Ltd does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Built to Roam Pty Ltd. -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Bill McCarthy Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 11:19 AM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Win8 Release Preview So vertical wheel scrolls horizontally ? I wondered what the design was for the news reader app which is a pain to scroll on my laptop. Admittedly I'm using VMWare to run it so the touchpad experience is not good. |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nick Randolph |Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 11:10 AM |To: ozDotNet |Subject: RE: Win8 Release Preview | |You know that the mouse wheel will scroll horizontally on the start |screen, right? | |Nick Randolph | Built to Roam Pty Ltd | Microsoft MVP - Windows Phone |Development | +61 412 413 425 | @btroam The information contained in |this email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you |may not disclose |or use the information in this email in any way. Built to Roam Pty Ltd |does not |guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions |expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or |opinions of Built |to Roam Pty Ltd. | | |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Bill McCarthy |Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 11:03 AM |To: 'ozDotNet' |Subject: RE: Win8 Release Preview | |Well worse. Popups area lot more keyboard/mouse friendly than having to |horizontally scroll | ||-Original Message- ||From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- ||boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Craig van Nieuwkerk ||Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 10:58 AM ||To: ozDotNet ||Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview || ||Exactly. It hasn't fixed the problem of manual navigation, just ||changed it. |But in ||the process made it more tablet/phone friendly. || || ||On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Bill McCarthy |bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au ||wrote: || || || And that as said previously is the same in windows 7. So the notion |that ||the || new start menu addresses the problem with too many entries on the |old ||start || menu is false. || || |
RE: Win8 Release Preview
Exactly. Once you get over the initial shock for the transition from the desktop to it (which I can assure you, was much worse in earlier builds – the desktop used to spin), you get used it. One more thing, our view is very skewed because we’re developers and use very “classic” bound apps. As more and more mainline apps become “metrofied” I think it will feel very natural to navigate whether using a mouse, keyboard or touch, and the transition between desktop and metro will become less frequent. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Cooney Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 5:43 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview I just started thinking of that metro screen as a full-screen start menu and my yearning for one went away. Joseph On 07/06/2012, at 9:58 AM, Andrew Coates (DPE AUSTRALIA) andrew.coa...@microsoft.commailto:andrew.coa...@microsoft.com wrote: I’m not sure I get the yearning for a start menu. Maybe I use it differently from others, but the metro screen lays out my commonly used apps nicely, and anything else I need I can find just by typing the first couple of letters of its name. The metro screen comes to the front when I hit the Windows button (like the start menu does in 7) and all my keyboard shortcuts work (and then some). Andrew Coates, ME, MCPD, MCSD MCTS, Developer Evangelist, Microsoft, 1 Epping Road, NORTH RYDE NSW 2113 Ph: +61 (2) 9870 2719 • Mob +61 (416) 134 993 • Fax: +61 (2) 9870 2400 • http://blogs.msdn.com/acoat From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]mailto:[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 9:41 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Bill McCarthy bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.aumailto:bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au wrote: IMO, windows 8 is close, but it could be a lot better. I love the windows phone like UI **concept**, and I love the idea of the similarities between the different form factors, BUT the current release preview looks to me to be designed for content consumption not content creation. Where, for example, is My documents gone ? I think you're right - it is very close. The problem is that there is a lot of traditional desktop functionality that has become a casualty of MS' iPad fear. I reckon if the start menu came back and they got rid of the need for hot spots in the corners it could be a lot more usable. Metro vs desktop apps schism is pretty difficult to live with. -- David Connors da...@connors.memailto:da...@connors.me
RE: Win8 Release Preview
It is the initial shock that is the problem. Take the example of Vista. I honestly didn't mind Vista; sure there were a few too many are you sure? 's , but it was pretty good. I think the benefits far outweighed any of the negatives, but that was a view of the security issues that had been plaguing windows. The general reaction however was a LOT of negativity. Oddly enough people now seem happy with Win 7 which really was like a service pack to Vista, although some still grumble muttering something about Vista g There's no doubt our view is tainted. But I can't apply enough rose colour tint to make me believe it is acceptable for the user to have to know what is a metro app and what is a desktop app and that the navigating to them whilst running is completely different ( a lot of people don't use the keyboard shortcuts, they use the taskbar) For those that buy a tablet first, then later buy windows 8 on a desktop/laptop or at work, their experience will be totally different. But for those coming from windows 7 they will be confronted with initial shock. And I think that's a real pity. It just generates negativity and all the good things are missed (eg how many conversations have you seen about the new task manager). I don't see any benefit in removing the start button, I don't see any benefit in hiding metro apps from the taskbar whilst ALT+TAB shows them. Again it is like they have overshot the mark, just as most would agree now they did with Vista. |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Kean |Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 11:56 AM |To: ozDotNet |Subject: RE: Win8 Release Preview | |Exactly. Once you get over the initial shock for the transition from the desktop to |it (which I can assure you, was much worse in earlier builds – the desktop used to |spin), you get used it. One more thing, our view is very skewed because we’re |developers and use very “classic” bound apps. As more and more mainline apps |become “metrofied” I think it will feel very natural to navigate whether using a |mouse, keyboard or touch, and the transition between desktop and metro will |become less frequent. | | | |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Cooney |Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 5:43 PM |To: ozDotNet |Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview | | | |I just started thinking of that metro screen as a full-screen start menu and my |yearning for one went away. | |Joseph | | |On 07/06/2012, at 9:58 AM, Andrew Coates (DPE AUSTRALIA) |andrew.coa...@microsoft.com wrote: | | I’m not sure I get the yearning for a start menu. Maybe I use it differently |from others, but the metro screen lays out my commonly used apps nicely, and |anything else I need I can find just by typing the first couple of letters of its name. |The metro screen comes to the front when I hit the Windows button (like the |start menu does in 7) and all my keyboard shortcuts work (and then some). | | | | Andrew Coates, ME, MCPD, MCSD MCTS, Developer Evangelist, |Microsoft, 1 Epping Road, NORTH RYDE NSW 2113 | Ph: +61 (2) 9870 2719 • Mob +61 (416) 134 993 • Fax: +61 (2) 9870 2400 • |http://blogs.msdn.com/acoat http://blogs.msdn.com/acoat | | | | From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] mailto:[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] |On Behalf Of David Connors | Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 9:41 AM | To: ozDotNet | Subject: Re: Win8 Release Preview | | | | On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Bill McCarthy |bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au wrote: | | IMO, windows 8 is close, but it could be a lot better. I love the windows | phone like UI **concept**, and I love the idea of the similarities between | the different form factors, BUT the current release preview looks to me |to | be designed for content consumption not content creation. Where, for | example, is My documents gone ? | | | | I think you're right - it is very close. The problem is that there is a lot of |traditional desktop functionality that has become a casualty of MS' iPad fear. | | | | I reckon if the start menu came back and they got rid of the need for hot |spots in the corners it could be a lot more usable. | | | | Metro vs desktop apps schism is pretty difficult to live with. | | | | -- | David Connors | da...@connors.me
