Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
The first thing that I do when I install VS2010 on a new PC these days is install the Color Theme Editor extension and leach all of the saturation out of the IDE colors (making them all shades of grey). I then turn off all of the tool bars. If you're going to do something enough that hunting in the menus is painful, learn the shortcuts for it. Both of these things minimize the noise in the IDE and let me concentrate on the thing that's important: the code. Couple that with R# for navigation and I can close most of the docked windows as well. Having said that, I'm not convinced on the new look. I haven't really spent a bunch of time with it so it might grow on me or I may just turn most of it off and not notice. On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 6:12 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: I'm not onboard with Ribbon for VS :) The Ribbon is such a cliche now. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:13 AM, Stephen Price step...@littlevoices.comwrote: OMG I forgot about the ribbon. I want a ribbon. *runs* On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:17 PM, David Rhys Jones djones...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, I read Scott's blog, and then went back to the Microsoft blog to take a second look. *Things that I use a lot that are missing.* Solution Explorer, Properties and Macro Explorer icons in the tool-bar. *Toolbar changes.* [image: Inline image 1] *Comment / Uncomment . * I use CTRL+K C / CTRL+K U , so no problem there. *New Project. * Never use it from there, always do it from the solution explorer. *File Open.* Always click this Icon, it's the same in Word, Excel, Sql Server Management basically all windows applications. not looking for the biggest splodge of yellow on the screen will be annoying *Save* Ctrl+S or CTRL+SHIFT+S *Find In Files, * Always use, because it's next to the quick find, if quick find doesn't work I click the little icon next to it and try again. except. in 2011, it's completely in the wrong place. *Bookmarks* Ctrl + K + K, Ctrl + K + N , CTRL + K + P Overall, it won't effect me too much, except when I do support, (searching in files, and opening source files). * A quick glance at the Solution Explorer window* [image: Inline image 2] There are Six icons there, Back, Forward, Home?, Cascade Windows?, synchronize views?, Find in Files (white) ? and Settings? In VS you have Properties, Show Hidden Files, Refresh,, view code, (view designer), Class Diagram. I'm not sure how those match up in the new Visual studio, but switching between versions is going to be a major pain in the arse. * Properties Box* The 2010 version looks much better than the 2011 version, the tabs are well separated and the highlighted tab is clear that it's a part of the form on the right. The 2011 version looks disassociated. On my machine, (XP 32bit) I have. VS2005 VS2008 VS2010 Sql Server Management 2008 Office 2003 The company I work for will not upgrade to the Ribbon version of office, because of all the support calls it would generate. So I have to do VSTO projects in 2008, I have an app that won't upgrade (.xsd files) to 2005 or 2010. And we are currently doing desktop UI application in .net 4.0. In any one week I will have used all three version of VS, and accessed a number of different DB's some with auto-completion some without, all using the same UI. Please provide a Classic Skin as well. to emulate the VS2010 icons so the switching will not be as shocking. Davy, The US Congress voted Pizza sauce a vegetable. Don't even try to convince me of anything in the states is sane any more! On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:47 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: I've also done a blog post decoding the grey into more finite principles, ie i dont like grey.. isn't enough, so i've made a feeble attempt to decode the problem with flat grey vs depth based grey. Decoding the use of grey in Visual Studio vNext http://www.riagenic.com/archives/858 --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Michael Minutillo michael.minuti...@gmail.com wrote: The first thing that I do when I install VS2010 on a new PC these days is install the Color Theme Editor extension and leach all of the saturation out of the IDE colors (making them all shades of grey). I then turn off all of the tool bars. If you're going to do something enough that hunting in the menus is painful, learn the shortcuts for it. Both of these things minimize the noise in the IDE and let me concentrate on the thing that's important: the code. Couple that with R# for navigation and I can close most of the docked windows as well. Having said that, I'm not convinced on the new look. I haven't really spent a bunch of time with it so it might grow on me or I may just turn most of it off and not notice. Then again, I could go back to Wordstar shortcuts. Even after all this time, I remember a lot of them. -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
Hi, I read Scott's blog, and then went back to the Microsoft blog to take a second look. *Things that I use a lot that are missing.* Solution Explorer, Properties and Macro Explorer icons in the tool-bar. *Toolbar changes.* [image: Inline image 1] *Comment / Uncomment . * I use CTRL+K C / CTRL+K U , so no problem there. *New Project. * Never use it from there, always do it from the solution explorer. *File Open.* Always click this Icon, it's the same in Word, Excel, Sql Server Management basically all windows applications. not looking for the biggest splodge of yellow on the screen will be annoying *Save* Ctrl+S or CTRL+SHIFT+S *Find In Files, * Always use, because it's next to the quick find, if quick find doesn't work I click the little icon next to it and try again. except. in 2011, it's completely in the wrong place. *Bookmarks* Ctrl + K + K, Ctrl + K + N , CTRL + K + P Overall, it won't effect me too much, except when I do support, (searching in files, and opening source files). * A quick glance at the Solution Explorer window* [image: Inline image 2] There are Six icons there, Back, Forward, Home?, Cascade Windows?, synchronize views?, Find in Files (white) ? and Settings? In VS you have Properties, Show Hidden Files, Refresh,, view code, (view designer), Class Diagram. I'm not sure how those match up in the new Visual studio, but switching between versions is going to be a major pain in the arse. * Properties Box* The 2010 version looks much better than the 2011 version, the tabs are well separated and the highlighted tab is clear that it's a part of the form on the right. The 2011 version looks disassociated. On my machine, (XP 32bit) I have. VS2005 VS2008 VS2010 Sql Server Management 2008 Office 2003 The company I work for will not upgrade to the Ribbon version of office, because of all the support calls it would generate. So I have to do VSTO projects in 2008, I have an app that won't upgrade (.xsd files) to 2005 or 2010. And we are currently doing desktop UI application in .net 4.0. In any one week I will have used all three version of VS, and accessed a number of different DB's some with auto-completion some without, all using the same UI. Please provide a Classic Skin as well. to emulate the VS2010 icons so the switching will not be as shocking. Davy, The US Congress voted Pizza sauce a vegetable. Don't even try to convince me of anything in the states is sane any more! On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:47 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: I've also done a blog post decoding the grey into more finite principles, ie i dont like grey.. isn't enough, so i've made a feeble attempt to decode the problem with flat grey vs depth based grey. Decoding the use of grey in Visual Studio vNext http://www.riagenic.com/archives/858 --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
OMG I forgot about the ribbon. I want a ribbon. *runs* On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:17 PM, David Rhys Jones djones...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, I read Scott's blog, and then went back to the Microsoft blog to take a second look. *Things that I use a lot that are missing.* Solution Explorer, Properties and Macro Explorer icons in the tool-bar. *Toolbar changes.* [image: Inline image 1] *Comment / Uncomment . * I use CTRL+K C / CTRL+K U , so no problem there. *New Project. * Never use it from there, always do it from the solution explorer. *File Open.* Always click this Icon, it's the same in Word, Excel, Sql Server Management basically all windows applications. not looking for the biggest splodge of yellow on the screen will be annoying *Save* Ctrl+S or CTRL+SHIFT+S *Find In Files, * Always use, because it's next to the quick find, if quick find doesn't work I click the little icon next to it and try again. except. in 2011, it's completely in the wrong place. *Bookmarks* Ctrl + K + K, Ctrl + K + N , CTRL + K + P Overall, it won't effect me too much, except when I do support, (searching in files, and opening source files). * A quick glance at the Solution Explorer window* [image: Inline image 2] There are Six icons there, Back, Forward, Home?, Cascade Windows?, synchronize views?, Find in Files (white) ? and Settings? In VS you have Properties, Show Hidden Files, Refresh,, view code, (view designer), Class Diagram. I'm not sure how those match up in the new Visual studio, but switching between versions is going to be a major pain in the arse. * Properties Box* The 2010 version looks much better than the 2011 version, the tabs are well separated and the highlighted tab is clear that it's a part of the form on the right. The 2011 version looks disassociated. On my machine, (XP 32bit) I have. VS2005 VS2008 VS2010 Sql Server Management 2008 Office 2003 The company I work for will not upgrade to the Ribbon version of office, because of all the support calls it would generate. So I have to do VSTO projects in 2008, I have an app that won't upgrade (.xsd files) to 2005 or 2010. And we are currently doing desktop UI application in .net 4.0. In any one week I will have used all three version of VS, and accessed a number of different DB's some with auto-completion some without, all using the same UI. Please provide a Classic Skin as well. to emulate the VS2010 icons so the switching will not be as shocking. Davy, The US Congress voted Pizza sauce a vegetable. Don't even try to convince me of anything in the states is sane any more! On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:47 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: I've also done a blog post decoding the grey into more finite principles, ie i dont like grey.. isn't enough, so i've made a feeble attempt to decode the problem with flat grey vs depth based grey. Decoding the use of grey in Visual Studio vNext http://www.riagenic.com/archives/858 --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
I'm not onboard with Ribbon for VS :) The Ribbon is such a cliche now. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:13 AM, Stephen Price step...@littlevoices.comwrote: OMG I forgot about the ribbon. I want a ribbon. *runs* On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:17 PM, David Rhys Jones djones...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, I read Scott's blog, and then went back to the Microsoft blog to take a second look. *Things that I use a lot that are missing.* Solution Explorer, Properties and Macro Explorer icons in the tool-bar. *Toolbar changes.* [image: Inline image 1] *Comment / Uncomment . * I use CTRL+K C / CTRL+K U , so no problem there. *New Project. * Never use it from there, always do it from the solution explorer. *File Open.* Always click this Icon, it's the same in Word, Excel, Sql Server Management basically all windows applications. not looking for the biggest splodge of yellow on the screen will be annoying *Save* Ctrl+S or CTRL+SHIFT+S *Find In Files, * Always use, because it's next to the quick find, if quick find doesn't work I click the little icon next to it and try again. except. in 2011, it's completely in the wrong place. *Bookmarks* Ctrl + K + K, Ctrl + K + N , CTRL + K + P Overall, it won't effect me too much, except when I do support, (searching in files, and opening source files). * A quick glance at the Solution Explorer window* [image: Inline image 2] There are Six icons there, Back, Forward, Home?, Cascade Windows?, synchronize views?, Find in Files (white) ? and Settings? In VS you have Properties, Show Hidden Files, Refresh,, view code, (view designer), Class Diagram. I'm not sure how those match up in the new Visual studio, but switching between versions is going to be a major pain in the arse. * Properties Box* The 2010 version looks much better than the 2011 version, the tabs are well separated and the highlighted tab is clear that it's a part of the form on the right. The 2011 version looks disassociated. On my machine, (XP 32bit) I have. VS2005 VS2008 VS2010 Sql Server Management 2008 Office 2003 The company I work for will not upgrade to the Ribbon version of office, because of all the support calls it would generate. So I have to do VSTO projects in 2008, I have an app that won't upgrade (.xsd files) to 2005 or 2010. And we are currently doing desktop UI application in .net 4.0. In any one week I will have used all three version of VS, and accessed a number of different DB's some with auto-completion some without, all using the same UI. Please provide a Classic Skin as well. to emulate the VS2010 icons so the switching will not be as shocking. Davy, The US Congress voted Pizza sauce a vegetable. Don't even try to convince me of anything in the states is sane any more! On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:47 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: I've also done a blog post decoding the grey into more finite principles, ie i dont like grey.. isn't enough, so i've made a feeble attempt to decode the problem with flat grey vs depth based grey. Decoding the use of grey in Visual Studio vNext http://www.riagenic.com/archives/858 --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:58 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.comwrote: Thanks for the feedback. On the three different versions things, why are you using three? What you building that still requires 2005/2008? ** Ok, we do builds for products that were released when 2005 (and 2008) were current, and it's not convenient, or safe, to update them to 2010 (or 2012) - we're only doing maintenance fixes on them. It'd be nice if you could open a 2005 project with 2012, without converting it to 2012 format, and then compile it with the 2005 version of CL. That would give you the 2012 UI, and not alter the project/solution/binary more than necessary. ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *mike smith *Sent:* Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:35 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? ** ** On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? I agree, somewhat, about the colour, but feel you've gone too far towards monochrome. And if you make me learn a new set of damned icons, I won't use the bloody thing. This is one thing I wish Microsoft would stop tinkering with. Icons, menu layouts, dialog layouts. Some of us don't move on completely from one version to another, but use 3 different versions of VS. Do you have any idea how painful this is? [image: Description: Pictographic icons from VS 2010 on the top row with the equivalent VS 11 glyphs on the bottom row] ** ** Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? ** ** /rant ** ** -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills image001.png
RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
Starting in VS 11, you can now round-trip VS 2010 projects/solutions without modification in most cases. Can you clarify on the “not safe” part? Is there anything in particular you are worried about? In 2008/2010, in most cases, all that’s really changing underneath is a version number stored in the project/solution. Everything else will build normally. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 6:50 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:58 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.commailto:david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: Thanks for the feedback. On the three different versions things, why are you using three? What you building that still requires 2005/2008? Ok, we do builds for products that were released when 2005 (and 2008) were current, and it's not convenient, or safe, to update them to 2010 (or 2012) - we're only doing maintenance fixes on them. It'd be nice if you could open a 2005 project with 2012, without converting it to 2012 format, and then compile it with the 2005 version of CL. That would give you the 2012 UI, and not alter the project/solution/binary more than necessary. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:35 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.commailto:david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? I agree, somewhat, about the colour, but feel you've gone too far towards monochrome. And if you make me learn a new set of damned icons, I won't use the bloody thing. This is one thing I wish Microsoft would stop tinkering with. Icons, menu layouts, dialog layouts. Some of us don't move on completely from one version to another, but use 3 different versions of VS. Do you have any idea how painful this is? [Description: Pictographic icons from VS 2010 on the top row with the equivalent VS 11 glyphs on the bottom row] Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? /rant -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills inline: image001.png
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
I've also done a blog post decoding the grey into more finite principles, ie i dont like grey.. isn't enough, so i've made a feeble attempt to decode the problem with flat grey vs depth based grey. Decoding the use of grey in Visual Studio vNext http://www.riagenic.com/archives/858 --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 1:53 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.comwrote: Starting in VS 11, you can now round-trip VS 2010 projects/solutions without modification in most cases. ** ** Can you clarify on the “not safe” part? Is there anything in particular you are worried about? In 2008/2010, in most cases, all that’s really changing underneath is a version number stored in the project/solution. Everything else will build normally. ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *mike smith *Sent:* Sunday, February 26, 2012 6:50 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? ** ** ** ** On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:58 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: Thanks for the feedback. On the three different versions things, why are you using three? What you building that still requires 2005/2008? ** ** Ok, we do builds for products that were released when 2005 (and 2008) were current, and it's not convenient, or safe, to update them to 2010 (or 2012) - we're only doing maintenance fixes on them. It'd be nice if you could open a 2005 project with 2012, without converting it to 2012 format, and then compile it with the 2005 version of CL. That would give you the 2012 UI, and not alter the project/solution/binary more than necessary. ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *mike smith *Sent:* Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:35 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? I agree, somewhat, about the colour, but feel you've gone too far towards monochrome. And if you make me learn a new set of damned icons, I won't use the bloody thing. This is one thing I wish Microsoft would stop tinkering with. Icons, menu layouts, dialog layouts. Some of us don't move on completely from one version to another, but use 3 different versions of VS. Do you have any idea how painful this is? [image: Description: Pictographic icons from VS 2010 on the top row with the equivalent VS 11 glyphs on the bottom row] Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? /rant -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills ** ** -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills ** ** image001.png
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
So very agreed. Give me colour! On Feb 24, 2012 6:35 PM, Iain Carlin cut...@gmail.com wrote: YUK! If I wanted to look at a black and white screen all day I would buy a black and white monitor...what craziness is this? Have Microsoft employed some UI designers from Apple or something. Leave the icons in colour, monochrome is just going to make my already difficult job even harder. On 24 February 2012 17:56, djones...@gmail.com wrote: Seconded on different versions thing. Switching between 2010 and 2008 little changes in menus really slow me down. Doing of classname in 2010 with the auto complete is very very annoying. (4.0, vsto projects and the frankinapp that's been converted from vs,2003,2005,2008) Davy .02€ Hexed into a portable ouija board. -- *From: * David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com *Sender: * ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com *Date: *Fri, 24 Feb 2012 05:58:26 + *To: *ozDotNetozdotnet@ozdotnet.com *ReplyTo: * ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com *Subject: *RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? Thanks for the feedback. On the three different versions things, why are you using three? What you building that still requires 2005/2008? ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *mike smith *Sent:* Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:35 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? ** ** On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? I agree, somewhat, about the colour, but feel you've gone too far towards monochrome. And if you make me learn a new set of damned icons, I won't use the bloody thing. This is one thing I wish Microsoft would stop tinkering with. Icons, menu layouts, dialog layouts. Some of us don't move on completely from one version to another, but use 3 different versions of VS. Do you have any idea how painful this is? [image: Description: Pictographic icons from VS 2010 on the top row with the equivalent VS 11 glyphs on the bottom row] ** ** Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? ** ** /rant ** ** -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills image001.png
RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
With regards to the notepad replacement, add some votes to this: http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/131389-visual-studio-performance/suggestions/2255626-make-it-feasible-to-use-visual-studio-as-a-program From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:58 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? Stephen - I thought I was the only neo-luddite that did things like that ... But round-tripping of projects - and other tech things - surely must be given more promotion than the UX / UI nonsense in that blog post, which is going to suck the oxygen from the real advancements in a new version. Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]mailto:[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Price Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 3:51 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? I'd be happy if you could open a SMALL text file from explorer without having to wait a few minutes. Why do you think that everyone has a notepad replacement installed? If Visual Studio loaded fast we wouldn't need them, VS would be the best notepad replacement. Impress me. I dare you. Make VS fast enough that I uninstall my notepad replacement.
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
Going against the grain here. I love the new look, the simpler glyphs/icons. Love the sexy black theme. Everything should have a sexy black theme. Definitely make the UI resolution agnostic. Everything needs to resize to whatever size monitor you have, and even multi screens. To further reiterate the impact of my last email, VS needs to load so lightning fast that it makes notepad look bloated. Seriously, what's so hard about this? As i read in a blog post once, they are *just* text files we're talking about here!!! Sexy and fast. We don't ask for much, do we? ;) On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 3:36 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.comwrote: One of the “about bloody time” features that we’ve added to VS is round tripping of projects. Basically, the majority of projects can be opened back and forth between VS2010 and VS11 without any changes. ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *djones...@gmail.com *Sent:* Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:26 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? ** ** Seconded on different versions thing. Switching between 2010 and 2008 little changes in menus really slow me down. Doing of classname in 2010 with the auto complete is very very annoying. (4.0, vsto projects and the frankinapp that's been converted from vs,2003,2005,2008) Davy .02€ Hexed into a portable ouija board. -- *From: *David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com *Sender: *ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com *Date: *Fri, 24 Feb 2012 05:58:26 + *To: *ozDotNetozdotnet@ozdotnet.com *ReplyTo: *ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com *Subject: *RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? ** ** Thanks for the feedback. On the three different versions things, why are you using three? What you building that still requires 2005/2008? ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *mike smith *Sent:* Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:35 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? ** ** On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? I agree, somewhat, about the colour, but feel you've gone too far towards monochrome. And if you make me learn a new set of damned icons, I won't use the bloody thing. This is one thing I wish Microsoft would stop tinkering with. Icons, menu layouts, dialog layouts. Some of us don't move on completely from one version to another, but use 3 different versions of VS. Do you have any idea how painful this is? [image: Description: Pictographic icons from VS 2010 on the top row with the equivalent VS 11 glyphs on the bottom row] ** ** Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? ** ** /rant ** ** -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
Oh the sheltered life you live. Break out of the MS bubble for a while and watch what happens in the real world. Even some dev shops are stuck on VS2008 in the same way as some enterprises are on WinXP. rant If you do anything related to the old Windows Mobile platform, for example, you have to use VS2008 – and no, there are some cases where we can’t just build a Windows Phone version. Microsoft officially screwed us when killing Windows Mobile as there is no alternative for line of business applications that require peripherals and/or ruggedized devices ☹ /rant Nick Randolph | Built to Roam Pty Ltd | Microsoft MVP – Windows Phone Development | +61 412 413 425 | @btroam The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email in any way. Built to Roam Pty Ltd does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Built to Roam Pty Ltd. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Kean Sent: Friday, 24 February 2012 3:58 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? Thanks for the feedback. On the three different versions things, why are you using three? What you building that still requires 2005/2008? From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]mailto:[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:35 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.commailto:david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? I agree, somewhat, about the colour, but feel you've gone too far towards monochrome. And if you make me learn a new set of damned icons, I won't use the bloody thing. This is one thing I wish Microsoft would stop tinkering with. Icons, menu layouts, dialog layouts. Some of us don't move on completely from one version to another, but use 3 different versions of VS. Do you have any idea how painful this is? [Description: Pictographic icons from VS 2010 on the top row with the equivalent VS 11 glyphs on the bottom row] Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? /rant -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills inline: image001.png
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
#1 I love the new look too! Or... maybe I should say that I am not too fussed about it because for sure there are heaps of themes that let me fix it. But #2 Please fix the docking. Let controls use up all space. There are at least 4 places where that would be nice... as mentioned by others: 1 Project properties 2 Tools | Options Dialog (Keyboard shows 3 lines) 3 Exception dialog in Debugger 4 Debug | Exceptions Dialog Thanks! Looking forward to use it BTW +1 to performance On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Nick Randolph n...@builttoroam.com wrote: Oh the sheltered life you live. Break out of the MS bubble for a while and watch what happens in the real world. Even some dev shops are stuck on VS2008 in the same way as some enterprises are on WinXP. ** ** rant If you do anything related to the old Windows Mobile platform, for example, you have to use VS2008 – and no, there are some cases where we can’t just build a Windows Phone version. Microsoft officially screwed us when killing Windows Mobile as there is no alternative for line of business applications that require peripherals and/or ruggedized devices L /rant* *** ** ** *Nick Randolph** *| *Built to Roam Pty Ltd* | Microsoft MVP – Windows Phone Development | +61 412 413 425 | @btroam The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email in any way. Built to Roam Pty Ltd does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Built to Roam Pty Ltd. ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Kean *Sent:* Friday, 24 February 2012 3:58 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? ** ** Thanks for the feedback. On the three different versions things, why are you using three? What you building that still requires 2005/2008? ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *mike smith *Sent:* Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:35 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? ** ** On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? I agree, somewhat, about the colour, but feel you've gone too far towards monochrome. And if you make me learn a new set of damned icons, I won't use the bloody thing. This is one thing I wish Microsoft would stop tinkering with. Icons, menu layouts, dialog layouts. Some of us don't move on completely from one version to another, but use 3 different versions of VS. Do you have any idea how painful this is? [image: Description: Pictographic icons from VS 2010 on the top row with the equivalent VS 11 glyphs on the bottom row] ** ** Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? ** ** /rant ** ** -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills -- .peter.gfader. (current mood = happy!) Check this before you go live http://blog.gfader.com/2011/07/website-check-list-part-1-aspnet-4.html image001.png
RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
Ah you know I think that David just pushed the wrong button - the MS mobile dev community is still a little sore from the beating we took on that one. Nick Randolph | Built to Roam Pty Ltd | Microsoft MVP - Windows Phone Development | +61 412 413 425 | @btroam The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email in any way. Built to Roam Pty Ltd does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Built to Roam Pty Ltd. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas Sent: Friday, 24 February 2012 6:39 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? Nick - I didn't think that needed explaining! Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]mailto:[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nick Randolph Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 4:24 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? Oh the sheltered life you live. Break out of the MS bubble for a while and watch what happens in the real world. Even some dev shops are stuck on VS2008 in the same way as some enterprises are on WinXP. rant If you do anything related to the old Windows Mobile platform, for example, you have to use VS2008 - and no, there are some cases where we can't just build a Windows Phone version. Microsoft officially screwed us when killing Windows Mobile as there is no alternative for line of business applications that require peripherals and/or ruggedized devices :( /rant Nick Randolph | Built to Roam Pty Ltd | Microsoft MVP - Windows Phone Development | +61 412 413 425 | @btroam The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email in any way. Built to Roam Pty Ltd does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Built to Roam Pty Ltd.
RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
Yep, fair call. :) From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nick Randolph Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 12:46 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? Ah you know I think that David just pushed the wrong button - the MS mobile dev community is still a little sore from the beating we took on that one. Nick Randolph | Built to Roam Pty Ltd | Microsoft MVP - Windows Phone Development | +61 412 413 425 | @btroam The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email in any way. Built to Roam Pty Ltd does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Built to Roam Pty Ltd. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]mailto:[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas Sent: Friday, 24 February 2012 6:39 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? Nick - I didn't think that needed explaining! Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]mailto:[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nick Randolph Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 4:24 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? Oh the sheltered life you live. Break out of the MS bubble for a while and watch what happens in the real world. Even some dev shops are stuck on VS2008 in the same way as some enterprises are on WinXP. rant If you do anything related to the old Windows Mobile platform, for example, you have to use VS2008 - and no, there are some cases where we can't just build a Windows Phone version. Microsoft officially screwed us when killing Windows Mobile as there is no alternative for line of business applications that require peripherals and/or ruggedized devices :( /rant Nick Randolph | Built to Roam Pty Ltd | Microsoft MVP - Windows Phone Development | +61 412 413 425 | @btroam The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email in any way. Built to Roam Pty Ltd does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Built to Roam Pty Ltd.
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Joseph Cooney joseph.coo...@gmail.comwrote: I'm disappointed that MS went after this instead of making an editor that can open a moderately large text file without halting for a few minutes. Or how about fixing fundamentals like this: error : The Web Application Project blah is configured to use IIS. To access local IIS Web sites, you must run Visual Studio in the context of an administrator account. WTF. Glad to see reduced colour focuses us on content - meanwhile the IDE focuses us on insanely bad development practices. -- *David Connors* | da...@codify.com | www.codify.com Codify Pty Ltd Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417 189 363 V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
Seconded - we still support a really old Windows Mobile apps that requires Visual Studio 2003, database projects that need to support both SQL Server Reporting Services 2005 and 2008 incompatible versions of RDL and report viewer controls, and some ASP.NET 4/.NET 4 web projects that require VS2010. I reckon our case of having to install up to four different versions of Visual Studio side by side is not that uncommon. It's maddening having to fight against the VS project upgrade wizard that always seems to be waiting in ambush. On 24/02/2012 6:24 PM, Nick Randolph wrote: Oh the sheltered life you live. Break out of the MS bubble for a while and watch what happens in the real world. Even some dev shops are stuck on VS2008 in the same way as some enterprises are on WinXP. rant If you do anything related to the old Windows Mobile platform, for example, you have to use VS2008 – and no, there are some cases where we can’t just build a Windows Phone version. Microsoft officially screwed us when killing Windows Mobile as there is no alternative for line of business applications that require peripherals and/or ruggedized devices L /rant Nick Randolph | Built to Roam Pty Ltd | Microsoft MVP – Windows Phone Development | +61 412 413 425 | @btroam The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email in any way. Built to Roam Pty Ltd does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Built to Roam Pty Ltd. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Kean Sent: Friday, 24 February 2012 3:58 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? Thanks for the feedback. On the three different versions things, why are you using three? What you building that still requires 2005/2008? From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:35 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? I agree, somewhat, about the colour, but feel you've gone too far towards monochrome. And if you make me learn a new set of damned icons, I won't use the bloody thing. This is one thing I wish Microsoft would stop tinkering with. Icons, menu layouts, dialog layouts. Some of us don't move on completely from one version to another, but use 3 different versions of VS. Do you have any idea how painful this is? Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? /rant -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv "Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? I agree, somewhat, about the colour, but feel you've gone too far towards monochrome. And if you make me learn a new set of damned icons, I won't use the bloody thing. This is one thing I wish Microsoft would stop tinkering with. Icons, menu layouts, dialog layouts. Some of us don't move on completely from one version to another, but use 3 different versions of VS. Do you have any idea how painful this is? [image: Pictographic icons from VS 2010 on the top row with the equivalent VS 11 glyphs on the bottom row] Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? /rant -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
Description: Pictographic icons from VS 2010 on the top row with the equivalent VS 11 glyphs on the bottom row Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? /rant It symbolises mankind’s struggle to represent things in black and white ;) From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Friday, 24 February 2012 4:35 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? I agree, somewhat, about the colour, but feel you've gone too far towards monochrome. And if you make me learn a new set of damned icons, I won't use the bloody thing. This is one thing I wish Microsoft would stop tinkering with. Icons, menu layouts, dialog layouts. Some of us don't move on completely from one version to another, but use 3 different versions of VS. Do you have any idea how painful this is? Pictographic icons from VS 2010 on the top row with the equivalent VS 11 glyphs on the bottom row http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-01-29-92-metablogapi/0601.dev10dev11iconsNEW_5F00_thumb_5F00_0CE4BE35.png Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? /rant -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills image001.png
RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
Horrible - who designed that? Could Monty Hammontree even get a job in a panel paint shop? And I agree with meski - I also need to have multiple versions of VS, and with VS11 it is not even consistency, more like recognition. _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia _ From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 1:35 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? I agree, somewhat, about the colour, but feel you've gone too far towards monochrome. And if you make me learn a new set of damned icons, I won't use the bloody thing. This is one thing I wish Microsoft would stop tinkering with. Icons, menu layouts, dialog layouts. Some of us don't move on completely from one version to another, but use 3 different versions of VS. Do you have any idea how painful this is? Pictographic icons from VS 2010 on the top row with the equivalent VS 11 glyphs on the bottom row http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/communityserver-blogs-components- weblogfiles/00-00-01-29-92-metablogapi/0601.dev10dev11iconsNEW_5F00_thumb_5F 00_0CE4BE35.png Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? /rant -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
Thanks for the feedback. On the three different versions things, why are you using three? What you building that still requires 2005/2008? From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:35 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.commailto:david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? I agree, somewhat, about the colour, but feel you've gone too far towards monochrome. And if you make me learn a new set of damned icons, I won't use the bloody thing. This is one thing I wish Microsoft would stop tinkering with. Icons, menu layouts, dialog layouts. Some of us don't move on completely from one version to another, but use 3 different versions of VS. Do you have any idea how painful this is? [Description: Pictographic icons from VS 2010 on the top row with the equivalent VS 11 glyphs on the bottom row] Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? /rant -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills inline: image001.png
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
There is a reason why I memorized most of the keyboard shortcuts. So that I don't have to learn new icons on each release. While I'm quite happy with monochrome icons, please make them more meaningful. The comment/uncomment icon is a classic example of icons that don't make sense. Sent from my Windows Phone 7 On 24/02/2012, at 16:44, Bill McCarthy bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au wrote: image001.png Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? /rant It symbolises mankind’s struggle to represent things in black and white ;) From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Friday, 24 February 2012 4:35 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? I agree, somewhat, about the colour, but feel you've gone too far towards monochrome. And if you make me learn a new set of damned icons, I won't use the bloody thing. This is one thing I wish Microsoft would stop tinkering with. Icons, menu layouts, dialog layouts. Some of us don't move on completely from one version to another, but use 3 different versions of VS. Do you have any idea how painful this is? Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? /rant -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
I think you'll find that impact is one of the more tolerable words of Microspeak: http://www.cinepad.com/mslex_3.htm From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 10:00 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? You used the word 'impact' figuratively 3 times, once in the dreadful form of 'negatively impacting'. The word 'impact' has diseased the modern western world. Respectable newspapers, TV news reports, journalists, scientists and suburban people are now using the word with reckless abandon. It's a lazy weasel word that betrays lack of imagination or literacy. Wherever you see the word 'impact', you can always find a more articulate and expressive replacement. For example, if you think the word 'impact' adds impact to what they write, you probably want more gravitas. You can replace 'negatively impact' with degrade or impair, or deteriorate, or hinder, or lots of other real words. Greg
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
David, I havent downloaded it yet but given you're taking feedback (and this request seems topical) can I ask if the Tools - Options - Environment - Keyboard dialog has been fixed so you can resize it and not scroll thru 3 shortcuts at a time ! On 24/02/2012 2:07 PM, David Kean wrote: I think youll find that impact is one of the more tolerable words of Microspeak: http://www.cinepad.com/mslex_3.htm From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 10:00 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? You used the word impact figuratively 3 times, once in the dreadful form of negatively impacting. The word impact has diseased the modern western world. Respectable newspapers, TV news reports, journalists, scientists and suburban people are now using the word with reckless abandon. Its a lazy weasel word that betrays lack of imagination or literacy. Wherever you see the word impact, you can always find a more articulate and expressive replacement. For example, if you think the word impact adds impact to what they write, you probably want more gravitas. You can replace negatively impact with degrade or impair, or deteriorate, or hinder, or lots of other real words. Greg
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
Define: tyre fire Sent from my iPhone On 24/02/2012, at 3:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts?
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
I'm disappointed that MS went after this instead of making an editor that can open a moderately large text file without halting for a few minutes. Joseph On 24/02/2012, at 3:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts?
RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
I’m pretty sure you don’t want designers working on fixing that… ☺ I filed a couple of bugs around the perf issues I was seeing which they fixed last year. I haven’t done any measurements, but it’s good enough that I don’t notice them anymore. What kind of files are you opening? Are they opened as text, or something structured, like XML? There were massive perf issues around XML (something around trying to calculate the regions for them), which they also fixed. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Cooney Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 10:45 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? I'm disappointed that MS went after this instead of making an editor that can open a moderately large text file without halting for a few minutes. Joseph On 24/02/2012, at 3:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.commailto:david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts?
RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
Greg - Perhaps the VS Team should recruit Don Watson for a Microsoft sabbatical. Inappropriate use of 'Impact' is not confined to Microspeak or tech-speak. (I assume that you have read Watson's several books about weaselwords, since you used the term) But I don't have a remedy for Monty Hammontree - I read that blog post carefully, and it sounds like job justification to me. I'm not at all convinced. Gaining 42 pixels is a nonsense, when a larger, higher-resolution screen can gain a developer centimetres of code space. And reducing the toolbar command placements throughout the product by an average of 35% - big deal. Within prior versions, w can choose to add or leave out a range of toolbars, or customize them. What I want to know is whether I would be able to replace those gawd-awful BW glyphs with recognizable equivalents from previous VS versions. To repeat - in my opinion, the VS11 UI design is rubbish! _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia _ From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 2:38 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? I think you'll find that impact is one of the more tolerable words of Microspeak: http://www.cinepad.com/mslex_3.htm Intolerable when used figuratively. My wife is an editor and proof reader, and she is also utterly fed up with 'impact'. For the last year she has been editing high school textbooks and she is continually ripping impacts out of them. The words turns up much more often in subjects like economics, psychology, business management and other soft sciences where the authors seem to be desperately striving for credibility. I have Julia Lerman's book Programming http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Entity-Framework-Building-Centric/dp/0596 807260 Entity Framework and she uses 'impact' in various forms about 100 times. On one page she explains how using a certain expression can 'impact performance'. A few pages later she tells us that turning on a certain option will 'impact performance'. Only experienced readers would known that she actually means the opposite in each case. Her book (and others I have) are full of ambiguous, inappropriate or completely bizarre 'impacts'. Do what you can to help me eradicate the word from within Microsoft and the USA. Greg
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
YUK! If I wanted to look at a black and white screen all day I would buy a black and white monitor...what craziness is this? Have Microsoft employed some UI designers from Apple or something. Leave the icons in colour, monochrome is just going to make my already difficult job even harder. On 24 February 2012 17:56, djones...@gmail.com wrote: Seconded on different versions thing. Switching between 2010 and 2008 little changes in menus really slow me down. Doing of classname in 2010 with the auto complete is very very annoying. (4.0, vsto projects and the frankinapp that's been converted from vs,2003,2005,2008) Davy .02€ Hexed into a portable ouija board. -- *From: * David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com *Sender: * ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com *Date: *Fri, 24 Feb 2012 05:58:26 + *To: *ozDotNetozdotnet@ozdotnet.com *ReplyTo: * ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com *Subject: *RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? Thanks for the feedback. On the three different versions things, why are you using three? What you building that still requires 2005/2008? ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *mike smith *Sent:* Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:35 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? ** ** On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? I agree, somewhat, about the colour, but feel you've gone too far towards monochrome. And if you make me learn a new set of damned icons, I won't use the bloody thing. This is one thing I wish Microsoft would stop tinkering with. Icons, menu layouts, dialog layouts. Some of us don't move on completely from one version to another, but use 3 different versions of VS. Do you have any idea how painful this is? [image: Description: Pictographic icons from VS 2010 on the top row with the equivalent VS 11 glyphs on the bottom row] ** ** Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? ** ** /rant ** ** -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills image001.png
RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
One of the “about bloody time” features that we’ve added to VS is round tripping of projects. Basically, the majority of projects can be opened back and forth between VS2010 and VS11 without any changes. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of djones...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:26 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? Seconded on different versions thing. Switching between 2010 and 2008 little changes in menus really slow me down. Doing of classname in 2010 with the auto complete is very very annoying. (4.0, vsto projects and the frankinapp that's been converted from vs,2003,2005,2008) Davy .02€ Hexed into a portable ouija board. From: David Kean david.k...@microsoft.commailto:david.k...@microsoft.com Sender: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 05:58:26 + To: ozDotNetozdotnet@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com ReplyTo: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? Thanks for the feedback. On the three different versions things, why are you using three? What you building that still requires 2005/2008? From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]mailto:[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:35 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.commailto:david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ Thoughts? I agree, somewhat, about the colour, but feel you've gone too far towards monochrome. And if you make me learn a new set of damned icons, I won't use the bloody thing. This is one thing I wish Microsoft would stop tinkering with. Icons, menu layouts, dialog layouts. Some of us don't move on completely from one version to another, but use 3 different versions of VS. Do you have any idea how painful this is? [Description: Pictographic icons from VS 2010 on the top row with the equivalent VS 11 glyphs on the bottom row] Take the comment/uncomment icons. WTF are they meant to represent? /rant -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills inline: image001.png
Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
I'd be happy if you could open a SMALL text file from explorer without having to wait a few minutes. Why do you think that everyone has a notepad replacement installed? If Visual Studio loaded fast we wouldn't need them, VS would be the best notepad replacement. Impress me. I dare you. Make VS fast enough that I uninstall my notepad replacement. On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Joseph Cooney joseph.coo...@gmail.comwrote: I'm disappointed that MS went after this instead of making an editor that can open a moderately large text file without halting for a few minutes. Joseph On 24/02/2012, at 3:15 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: We showed off the new look today: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/ ** ** Thoughts?
RE: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts?
Stephen - I thought I was the only neo-luddite that did things like that . But round-tripping of projects - and other tech things - surely must be given more promotion than the UX / UI nonsense in that blog post, which is going to suck the oxygen from the real advancements in a new version. _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia _ From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Price Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 3:51 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: New look of Visual Studio, what are your thoughts? I'd be happy if you could open a SMALL text file from explorer without having to wait a few minutes. Why do you think that everyone has a notepad replacement installed? If Visual Studio loaded fast we wouldn't need them, VS would be the best notepad replacement. Impress me. I dare you. Make VS fast enough that I uninstall my notepad replacement.
