[ozmidwifery] caesarian
Attended a couple of caerarean sections at my training hospital. After discussing these with my sister who is a midwife in England realised a couple of things. First of all when the baby is birthed the woman has a hard time seeing it. The midwife receiveing the babe takes it to show her, but in my sisters hospital the infant resus cot is next to the womans head and she can see everything going on for herself. Secondly the baby came with us back to the ward and she had her wakeful time with her grandma. When the mother came back we put the babe with her and skin to skin, but the babe was too sleepy to feed. My question is does anyone have any studies or literature that I can use to talk to our unit manager. Don't expect to move mountains as I am only a student but would like to make my feelings known and maybe we can work towards some change. Thanks Sheena
Re: [ozmidwifery] C.section education to do or not to do?
Dear rita Is his name David?? Denise Hynd - Original Message - From: Deliverywoman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]@dodo.com.au Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] C.section education to do or not to do? Dear Listers, I do know of ONE hospital that does offer education for those wanting a VBAC. It was actually the OB/GYN (OMG I hear you say - he is good) that instigated this class, and is run in accordance to demand. If this Doctor sees a patient that has had a prior c/section, he discusses the option of VBAC with them and offers them this class that is run by an educator that has herself had a VBAC. This hospital is in rural Victoria and I applaud the OB/GYN for instigating the mother's thoughts regarding the option of VBAC. If only they could all think like this. -- Yours in Childbirth and with the Love of Friendship Rita «¤?¤ÐÈ£ÏVÊR¥·WÓMÄѤ?¤» Mother of David - 13, Haydie - 11, Alysha - 10 and Baby Tyler 8 months Registered Nurse, Student Midwife (currently in hiatus - due to injury), Aspiring CBE and Doula How many hospitals have VBAC classes? I presume you mean preparation for vaginal birth after having had a c/s for a previous birth. I just wanted to clarify these questions. No criticism intended. I am looking forward to reading responses to these questions. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] C.section education to do or not to do?
I would put a $500 bet that his name is David... Jo Bainbridge founding member CARES SA www.cares-sa.org.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 08 8388 6918 birth with trust, faith love... - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] C.section education to do or not to do? Dear rita Is his name David?? Denise Hynd - Original Message - From: Deliverywoman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]@dodo.com.au Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] C.section education to do or not to do? Dear Listers, I do know of ONE hospital that does offer education for those wanting a VBAC. It was actually the OB/GYN (OMG I hear you say - he is good) that instigated this class, and is run in accordance to demand. If this Doctor sees a patient that has had a prior c/section, he discusses the option of VBAC with them and offers them this class that is run by an educator that has herself had a VBAC. This hospital is in rural Victoria and I applaud the OB/GYN for instigating the mother's thoughts regarding the option of VBAC. If only they could all think like this. -- Yours in Childbirth and with the Love of Friendship Rita «¤?¤ÐÈ£ÏVÊR¥·WÓMÄѤ?¤» Mother of David - 13, Haydie - 11, Alysha - 10 and Baby Tyler 8 months Registered Nurse, Student Midwife (currently in hiatus - due to injury), Aspiring CBE and Doula How many hospitals have VBAC classes? I presume you mean preparation for vaginal birth after having had a c/s for a previous birth. I just wanted to clarify these questions. No criticism intended. I am looking forward to reading responses to these questions. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Bullying - doing something about it
Dear Denise and Marilyn, This issue is one I am very concerned about as well. I realise that it is a complex issue that is hard to tackle as many strands are involved in its source as well as its resolution. In a workplace, however, the managers have responsibility to make sure that bullying is not tolerated and individuals are supported and nurtured. The new midwifery we hope to see in place in Australia will be reliant on managers with foresight, ability and good team building skills. There will always be those who knock change and feel threatened by new (unfamiliar) ways of doing things - a good manager will need strategies to deal with these threats to progress. These are the kind of issues we will be tackling at the Managing Midwifery workshop at the end of April. It will include a whole day of skills development in coaching psychology that will enable midwifery managers to feel more confident around team building and motivating staff. This is definitely one program that all midwifery managers should try to attend. http://www.birthinternational.com/event/managing2003/index.html Please, everyone, make sure you manager has this info. Cheers Andrea At 02:54 AM 4/04/2003, Marilyn Kleidon wrote: Dear Denise: Sadly I recognise the truth you have written. I wish I didn't. After reading Carolyn Hastie's work earlier I wrote my senior paper at Seattle Midwifery School on Horizontal Violence amongst midwives. As I found in my research this bullying exists throughout the health professions. Because it can be subtle (as well as fierce) most often we grin and bear it. Also, I don't believe it just exists within the enclaves of beauracracy but is alive and well through the ranks of independent practitioners as well. I have observed a closing off from those who don't practice as we do. The bullying goes in both directions from those of us who are more conservative in practice than alternative and vice versa. It also embraces the political aspects of midwifery practice. And I am not considering the healthy discussions of alternative ways to practice that emerge from within healthy professions. This is definetly an area that needs ongoing feminist action research to document it and find ways to strengthen midwives and the midwifery profession. First off I think we need to acknowledge we belong to an increasingly bullying culture and have developed our own means of pushing and shoving just to keep our heads above water. Treading water marilyn - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Denise Hynd To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] ; mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 7:12 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Bullying Dear All I feel sure one of the reasons many of us are on this list is to gather strength and heal from the effect of bullying as well as to learn and be encouraged in ideas toward humanisation of birth. I also think one of the main reasons Australia is not a land of midwifery is due to bullying of midwives, women and their supporters. Stories of incidents abound (especially on this list) and it is evidenced in the predominant negative outcomes of our national pregnancy and early parenting experiences. For me bullying behaviours usually stop the transference of knowledge to effect change including humanised birth and real midwifery services! It is not just that women are given inaccurate information about how to birth, more importantly they are too intimidated to listen, hear about and believe or act in their own abilities and to trust (real) midwives to assist them to birth in their own powers. Historically midwives have been subjugated into subordination to medicine and nursing. Now several generations of Australian midwives have lived and learnt only this role as well as how in turn to keep themselves and the women in powerless places and belief systems. Thus most of our profession does not recognize that there is a problem in this subordination, is not demanding positive changes (including NMAP), Sadly now most Australian midwives actually believe we (the women and midwives) are safest where we are, that birth is inherently dangerous and we best leave it to the rescue brigade to make the decisions whilst we support them not the women or ourselves!. If you recognise what I say is true or has some truth and want to understand this common,unacknoledged behaviour pattern in our places of birth, as well as act to change at least your contribution to this toxic culture I recommend you read Carolyn Hastie's article http://www.acegraphics.com.au/articles/hastie02.htmlhttp://www.acegraphics.com.au/articles/hastie02.html Denise Hynd Peace at birth Peace on earth. - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Bullying - doing something about it
Dear Andrea I also think Antenatal educators and those who admit women to maternity care in the clinics etc need to include have an understanding of bullying and means to deal with it as this is often what happens to the women so they start on the treadmill or cascade of intervention out of fear for themselves or the baby!. For example each woman should be given a copy of the Health Care Complaints Commission brochure which talks about informed consent and access to a second opinion? I saw your program and congratulate you and wish also that bullying was acknowledged in the courses I have previously undertaken as both a student and educator Assertion is often not enough when bullying is not acknowledged but the management and understood by the Target Note no victim Andrea would please also include some texts on bullying in your catalogue, I find most informative The bully at work; What you can do to stop the hurt reclaim your dignity on the job. G R Naimie (2000) Naperville Il. As well as the infomation supplied by Caroline H There is a bullies down under web site also Thank you denise - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bullying - doing something about it Dear Denise and Marilyn, This issue is one I am very concerned about as well. I realise that it is a complex issue that is hard to tackle as many strands are involved in its source as well as its resolution. In a workplace, however, the managers have responsibility to make sure that bullying is not tolerated and individuals are supported and nurtured. The new midwifery we hope to see in place in Australia will be reliant on managers with foresight, ability and good team building skills. There will always be those who knock change and feel threatened by new (unfamiliar) ways of doing things - a good manager will need strategies to deal with these threats to progress. These are the kind of issues we will be tackling at the Managing Midwifery workshop at the end of April. It will include a whole day of skills development in coaching psychology that will enable midwifery managers to feel more confident around team building and motivating staff. This is definitely one program that all midwifery managers should try to attend. http://www.birthinternational.com/event/managing2003/index.html Please, everyone, make sure you manager has this info. Cheers Andrea At 02:54 AM 4/04/2003, Marilyn Kleidon wrote: Dear Denise: Sadly I recognise the truth you have written. I wish I didn't. After reading Carolyn Hastie's work earlier I wrote my senior paper at Seattle Midwifery School on Horizontal Violence amongst midwives. As I found in my research this bullying exists throughout the health professions. Because it can be subtle (as well as fierce) most often we grin and bear it. Also, I don't believe it just exists within the enclaves of beauracracy but is alive and well through the ranks of independent practitioners as well. I have observed a closing off from those who don't practice as we do. The bullying goes in both directions from those of us who are more conservative in practice than alternative and vice versa. It also embraces the political aspects of midwifery practice. And I am not considering the healthy discussions of alternative ways to practice that emerge from within healthy professions. This is definetly an area that needs ongoing feminist action research to document it and find ways to strengthen midwives and the midwifery profession. First off I think we need to acknowledge we belong to an increasingly bullying culture and have developed our own means of pushing and shoving just to keep our heads above water. Treading water marilyn - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Denise Hynd To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] ; mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Maternitycoalitonmidwi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 7:12 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Bullying Dear All I feel sure one of the reasons many of us are on this list is to gather strength and heal from the effect of bullying as well as to learn and be encouraged in ideas toward humanisation of birth. I also think one of the main reasons Australia is not a land of midwifery is due to bullying of midwives, women and their supporters. Stories of incidents abound (especially on this list) and it is evidenced in the predominant negative outcomes of our national pregnancy and early parenting experiences. For me bullying behaviours usually stop the transference of knowledge to effect change including humanised birth and real midwifery services! It is not just that women are given inaccurate information about how to birth, more importantly they are too intimidated to listen, hear about and believe or act in their own abilities and to trust (real)
RE: [ozmidwifery] Bullying - doing something about it
Dear Colleagues, This is a fantastic workshop Andrea has put together and will be so useful to managers and leaders everywhere. Good on you Andrea for doing this, wonderful to see. One of the many strands in this complex issue is that of learned helplessness. The pattern of learned helplessness has to be overcome in our profession and in that of nursing. I have been horrified by the working conditions in hospitals since I have been back as midwifery educator. People are overworked and overstretched. People are working too hard for little satisfaction. From what I see, the complexity of the clientele, the simply dreadful midwife/motherbaby ratio, the skill mix, the paperwork mountain, plus the responsibilities of new domestic violence and child reporting legislation, not to the mention burgeoning use of technology and the ever present fear of litigation in the approach to maternity care, are creating a fertile ground for all sorts of unconscious reactions/responses and inappropriate behaviour. And as for the students, the staff do their best and work hard to help them learn, but there is no time to teach on the job. This is just from my midwifery perspective, nursing is a whole other kettle of frogs. You know that saying, if you put a frog in hot water it will immediately jump out, but put a frog in cold water and heat it up and it doesnt realise what is happening and before it does, it expires from the heat. The health system is heating up to expiry point. At our place, we have been told there will be a 20% increase in women to care for, as GP's stop bulk billing and obstetricians stop doing private obstetrics, already there were 2000 more occasions of service at the prenatal clinic in the last 6 months - but there will be no more staff and no more resources. WHAT? That's right. However, there is another layer of senior management happening and the line of management is through a doctor - no senior midwife manager directly reporting to the executive. Grrr. So I figured what we need is serious action. I've joined the union (NSWNA) and become a branch delegate. I've been reading and searching for ways to address these and other issues and have joined a team called The real nurses team as they are have a real grasp of the issues facing both nursing and midwifery. They are dedicated to remaining independant from any political party to pursue safe and effective staff/patient and midwife/womanbaby ratios and other urgent requirements. I have been nominated for council for this team, along with two other midwives, Michael Whaites and Liz McCall. The election for General Secretary, Assistant General Secretary and councillors from the committee of Delegates will be held by postal vote and closes 17th June 03. The details of all the nominees will be in the next Lamp. For those of you in NSW, please ensure your membership is current and investigate the nominees and choose who you will vote for and please vote. We need your voice. Please have a look at the Real Nurses Team site, it's www.realnurses.net For midwives working in other states, please join the union or if already members become actively involved. We are working for name change, to include midwifery in the title of the union. It is time to get real, to address the real issues facing our twin professions. There is power in numbers and many issues are the same for nurses and midwives, it is great to work together. in solidarity (thanks Justine) Carolyn Hastie Council nominee for the Real Nurses and Midwives Team www.realnurses.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2003 1:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bullying - doing something about it Dear Denise and Marilyn, This issue is one I am very concerned about as well. I realise that it is a complex issue that is hard to tackle as many strands are involved in its source as well as its resolution. In a workplace, however, the managers have responsibility to make sure that bullying is not tolerated and individuals are supported and nurtured. The new midwifery we hope to see in place in Australia will be reliant on managers with foresight, ability and good team building skills. There will always be those who knock change and feel threatened by new (unfamiliar) ways of doing things - a good manager will need strategies to deal with these threats to progress. These are the kind of issues we will be tackling at the Managing Midwifery workshop at the end of April. It will include a whole day of skills development in coaching psychology that will enable midwifery managers to feel more confident around team building and motivating staff. This is definitely one program that all midwifery managers should try to attend. http://www.birthinternational.com/event/managing2003/index.html Please, everyone, make sure you manager has this info. Cheers Andrea At 02:54 AM
Re: [ozmidwifery] Bullying - doing something about it
Dear Carolyn: I whole heartedly endorse your actions. I would love to be doing the same here in Qld, but being a midwife only (the QNC's description not mine!) don'tknow if I can join the Nurses Union. I have to admit I haven't called, but since you raised the issue, I thought I would ask you?? Can midwives who are not nurses join the nurses union? I have realised we are in a bit of a bind working on the job in hospitals: all the nurses are advised to have the insurance offered by the Nurses Union, but as far as I know I don't have that or any other option except the hospitals general employee cover of course. I also wanted to add that while I acknowledge the need for aware and resourceful managers in the workplace, employees need to feel empowered and trustful of management for this to work. I have lived through enactment of sexual harrassment policies and other similar policies in the workplace (admitidly in the USA) supposedly to be of benenfit to the worker which, after the initial hoo ha, ended up being just another avenue for managers to dismiss employees and cut costs. None of these dismissals were me, I was just watching from the sidelines, mouth on the floor. Of course we had no union. While, I am sure unions could also be a haven for bullies, they should be there to support and strengthen the workers, in this case the nurses and midwives. Also, in solidartity marilyn - Original Message - From: Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 2:58 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Bullying - doing something about it Dear Colleagues, This is a fantastic workshop Andrea has put together and will be so useful to managers and leaders everywhere. Good on you Andrea for doing this, wonderful to see. One of the many strands in this complex issue is that of learned helplessness. The pattern of learned helplessness has to be overcome in our profession and in that of nursing. I have been horrified by the working conditions in hospitals since I have been back as midwifery educator. People are overworked and overstretched. People are working too hard for little satisfaction. From what I see, the complexity of the clientele, the simply dreadful midwife/motherbaby ratio, the skill mix, the paperwork mountain, plus the responsibilities of new domestic violence and child reporting legislation, not to the mention burgeoning use of technology and the ever present fear of litigation in the approach to maternity care, are creating a fertile ground for all sorts of unconscious reactions/responses and inappropriate behaviour. And as for the students, the staff do their best and work hard to help them learn, but there is no time to teach on the job. This is just from my midwifery perspective, nursing is a whole other kettle of frogs. You know that saying, if you put a frog in hot water it will immediately jump out, but put a frog in cold water and heat it up and it doesnt realise what is happening and before it does, it expires from the heat. The health system is heating up to expiry point. At our place, we have been told there will be a 20% increase in women to care for, as GP's stop bulk billing and obstetricians stop doing private obstetrics, already there were 2000 more occasions of service at the prenatal clinic in the last 6 months - but there will be no more staff and no more resources. WHAT? That's right. However, there is another layer of senior management happening and the line of management is through a doctor - no senior midwife manager directly reporting to the executive. Grrr. So I figured what we need is serious action. I've joined the union (NSWNA) and become a branch delegate. I've been reading and searching for ways to address these and other issues and have joined a team called The real nurses team as they are have a real grasp of the issues facing both nursing and midwifery. They are dedicated to remaining independant from any political party to pursue safe and effective staff/patient and midwife/womanbaby ratios and other urgent requirements. I have been nominated for council for this team, along with two other midwives, Michael Whaites and Liz McCall. The election for General Secretary, Assistant General Secretary and councillors from the committee of Delegates will be held by postal vote and closes 17th June 03. The details of all the nominees will be in the next Lamp. For those of you in NSW, please ensure your membership is current and investigate the nominees and choose who you will vote for and please vote. We need your voice. Please have a look at the Real Nurses Team site, it's www.realnurses.net For midwives working in other states, please join the union or if already members become actively involved. We are working for name change, to include midwifery in the title of the union. It is time to get real, to address the real issues facing our twin professions. There is power
RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Midwifery Care
Excellent letter Mary, living in Busselton it is with sadness that I read the letter from S.Keough. There is a real job out there just change the mindset of perfect and what is classified as normal these days, well done. pete malavisi -Original Message-From: Mary Murphy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, 3 April 2003 05:13To: listSubject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Midwifery Care Hi, this is the letter that was published in today's "West" in reply to the one yesterday. I was incensed when I read S Keough's and just had to reply. I penned it and another midwife submitted it, cheers, MM - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: W.a. Editor Newspapers Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 7:39 AM Subject: Midwifery Care S. Keough is missing the point (letters 2/4/03). None of the letters published is "having a go at the doctors". What all have suggested is that the majority of women having babies are low risk and should be cared for by midwives (World Health Organisation reports). If obstetricians concentrated on the skills of their speciality ie caring for women with complications, they would have moretime available to treat those women, more time with their families and more undisturbed sleep. (Dr H.Clarke, letters 28/3/03).The insurance situation is dire for all the community.Governments must find a way to protect all patients and workers, not just the obstetricians. Perhaps the New Zealand system of "no fault" insurance should be more closely examined.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Epidural video
Hi all, I know that this is a reply to an old message but I only just got to look at it (thanks Tina) It certainly is a slick piece of promotion and whilst I haven't seen the video, I bet it will become the standard in hospital childbirth education classes. It almost won ME over with its soothing words and reassuring scenarios. MM - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:15 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Epidural video Hello everyone...this came by my waythought i'd share it here.http://www.medeserv.com.au/anzca/infocentres/medreleases/labour.htmYours in reforming midwiferyTina Pettigrew.B Mid Student ACU Melbhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/BMidStudentCollective/" As we trust the flowers to open to new life - So we can trust birth"Harriette Hartigan.---
[ozmidwifery] Homebirth Conference
On one of the lists, someone spoke of the next Homebirth Conference and who was interested in holding it. Pete Malavasi I have begun a conversation around about the possibility of it being in W.A. again. Could who ever posted the e-mail please contact me or Pete? thanks, Mary Murphy. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
