RE: [ozmidwifery] National Register of ALL Independent ChildbirthEducators (NICE)
Hi Jo My email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] This list is growing very quickly! So far we have people from Western Aust, New South Wales and Victoria. I wonder if there are any Independent Eds in Queensland and South Australiaoops nearly forgot Tassie ?? All are welcome to join the list who are Independent Childbirth Educators currently practising J The list will be included in the next Birth Matters Maternity Coalition Journal. Hug Julie Julie Clarke Childbirth and Parenting Educator Transition into Parenthood 9 Withybrook Pl Sylvania NSW 2224. T. (02) 9544 6441 Mobile 0401 2655 30 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jo hunter Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2003 2:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] National Register of ALL Independent Childbirth Educators (NICE) Hi Julie, Jo Hunter here. Could you send me your email address - I seem to have lost it. So that I can send you 'Innate Birth' details - Childbirth Education and Doula Service. Classes are going well and plenty of Doula work coming in. Thanks for putting this register together for all of us. Warmest regards Jo - Original Message - From: Julie Clarke To: Ozmidwifery Mailing List Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 2:27 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] National Register of ALL Independent Childbirth Educators (NICE) Hi everyone Every now and then, I will be asked to refer someone to another Independent Educator somewhere in Australia and I am often unable to help simply because there does not seem to be a register of Independent Educators anywhere. So I thought lets do it lets pull the information together so that anytime I am asked I can readily refer. I am currently working on developing a list of all Independent Childbirth Educators in Australia and might look at getting it printed professionally J to make available for distribution. If you are an independent childbirth educator who would like to be added to the list then please send your details to me for inclusion. (On the other hand, if you know someone who would like to be on the list then please forward this email to them). Name: Address: Telephone: Facsimile: Mobile: Email: Details of Independent Childbirth Education Classes offered: The region of area you would describe as your catchment area and the hospitals in that catchment. I hope you can all help me Of course I will let you know when its complete and make it available to you. I will call this list: NICE 2003 - National Independent Childbirth Educators 2003. How funky is that, eh? hug Julie Clarke Childbirth and Parenting Educator Transition into Parenthood 9 Withybrook Pl Sylvania NSW 2224. T. (02) 9544 6441 Fax: (02) 9544 9257 Mobile 0401 2655 30 Catchment: St George and Sutherland Shire Region in the South Eastern Sydney.
RE: [ozmidwifery] National Register of ALL Independent ChildbirthEducators (NICE)
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] National Register of ALL Independent Childbirth Educators (NICE) Fabulous Jan and yes I am financial J I will send you (direct) the current list and will forward regular updates. I cant add attachments to the ozmid list so anyone else who would also like the NICE list please let me know and Ill develop a list a regular mailing list of you J Goodness lucky Im a list person!!! Hug Julie Julie Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Childbirth and Parenting Educator Transition into Parenthood 9 Withybrook Pl Sylvania NSW 2224. T. (02) 9544 6441 Mobile 0401 2655 30 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan Robinson Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2003 3:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] National Register of ALL Independent ChildbirthEducators (NICE) Hi Julie When you get the list together you are welcome to include it in the ASIM Members Directory (as you belong to ASIM hope you are financial) It would make a nice accompaniment to the document and we are hoping to get it up on the www soon so more people will be able to access it. Jan On 14/7/03 2:27 PM, Julie Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone Every now and then, I will be asked to refer someone to another Independent Educator somewhere in Australia and I am often unable to help simply because there does not seem to be a register of Independent Educators anywhere. So I thought lets do it lets pull the information together so that anytime I am asked I can readily refer. I am currently working on developing a list of all Independent Childbirth Educators in Australia and might look at getting it printed professionally J to make available for distribution. If you are an independent childbirth educator who would like to be added to the list then please send your details to me for inclusion. (On the other hand, if you know someone who would like to be on the list then please forward this email to them). Name: Address: Telephone: Facsimile: Mobile: Email: Details of Independent Childbirth Education Classes offered: The region of area you would describe as your catchment area and the hospitals in that catchment. I hope you can all help me Of course I will let you know when its complete and make it available to you. I will call this list: NICE 2003 - National Independent Childbirth Educators 2003. How funky is that, eh? hug Julie Clarke Childbirth and Parenting Educator Transition into Parenthood 9 Withybrook Pl Sylvania NSW 2224. T. (02) 9544 6441 Fax: (02) 9544 9257 Mobile 0401 2655 30 Catchment: St George and Sutherland Shire Region in the South Eastern Sydney.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Unusual gift
What a most unique and thoughtful gift. I'm impressed by that Dad. Cheryl From: Katy O'Neill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Unusual gift Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:43:12 +1000 I work in a hospital system with all the limitations it imposes and so when a father presented us with a gift it real surprised me. The gift was a lovely silver frame with a plaque on it inscribed with their babies birth date etc plus the following... In heaven they have angels Here on earth we have midwives. On the accompanying card he wrote :- To all new Mums, Be brave' Trust in your midwife. To all new Dads, Be gentle, Be amazed, But above all, wonder at the real superior sex. It would be lovely if we could always earn this.Katy. _ Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] breastfeeding and constipation
Dear List Does anyone have any ideas why a perfectly healthy 6+ month old baby (fully breastfed - still is) is suddenly getting badly constipated? Since birth she has regularly gone 48-72 hours between full nappies with no concern from her or Mum; starting solids slowly - pureed fruit and veges and chewing on Sao's with sore gums. Went 8 days (bit of a drama by day 6 - very unhappy baby) and was shockingly distressed by day 8. Used water, infant coloxyl, massage etc We are now heading into day 4 - starting to get a bit restless (the baby) again. Cheryl _ Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] SMH Good Weekend Article on Saturday Criticising Birth Plans
Wasn't it a doozy?? And the line that got me most amazed was that (talking about 3rd world women) ...and vast numbers of these women and their babies don't survive this natural process. Then going on to talk about if these women had an option, they would all want a medical birth and an epidural!! And now there is another name that can be applied to midwives - childbirth zealots who rail against pain relief and intervention Huh Cheryl From: Julie Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ozmidwifery Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] SMH Good Weekend Article on Saturday Criticising Birth Plans Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:34:50 +1000 Hi everyone, I received this email from a lovely woman who came through my classes last year - did others see this article too? Hug Julie Hi Julie, I was wondering whether you managed to see the article in this weekend's Good Weekend magazine in the Sydney Morning Herald. It's written by Mia Freedman about how (apparently) useless birth plans are, and basically goes on to ridicule any woman who has the intention of trying to have minimal intervention in labour. And I quote: Fastforward to the actual birth and $100 says she'll be swearing at said husband while screaming for an epidural. $200 says the CDs and the oil burner won't even make it out of the labour bag. But while birth plans are relatively harmless, I'm far less tolerant of the very vocal group of childbirth zealots who rail against pain relief and 'intervention'. Why aren't these women grateful for medical help? Epidurals don't appear to affect the baby physically. Whilst I wouldn't say that I'm a person who would get up on her soap box and push the natural birth method on everyone, I was really offended reading the article. I understand that it's meant to be a humorous piece of writing, but I think it actually has the effect of offending those who desire the most natural birth possible, yet will welcome medical assistance if required. I feel like writing a letter into the SMH expressing my disappointment with the article and pointing out a few misconceptions regarding epidurals, like they're totally risk-free to both mother and baby. If you haven't seen it, the SMH is still on sale, but if you don't get to see it and would like to see it, just let me know and I'll pop it around to you. _ Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Unusual gift
Katy, thanks for sharing this. A big pat on the back to you and all your colleagues who must be doing a wonderful job. I got the biggest goosepimples when I read his words. Isn't it just so fulfilling to be appreciated? Best wishes, Lois Wattis - Original Message - From: Katy O'Neill To: ozmidwifery Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 2:43 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Unusual gift I work in a hospital system with all the limitations it imposes and so when a father presented us with a gift it real surprised me. The gift was a lovely silver frame with a plaque on it inscribed with their babies birth date etc plus the following... " In heaven they have angels Here on earth we have midwives." On the accompanying card he wrote :- To all new Mums, Be brave' Trust in your midwife. To all new Dads, Be gentle, Be amazed, But above all, wonder at the real superior sex. It would be lovely if we could always earn this. Katy.
[ozmidwifery] RArticle for breastfeeding
Hi there SORRY FOR CROSS POST Is there anyone who can help me with the article one botlle wont harm will it.I am quite desperate for it Hettie Grove RN.RM.RCN.ICCE. South Africa
Re: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding and constipation
Hi Cheryl, It may be the wheat in the Sao biscuits - go for the other grains; corn, millet, barley etc I'd also advise a probiotic supplement specifically for infants; Natren 'Lifestart' or Metagenics 'Flora Care'. The latter is usually available from naturopathic clinics, and the Natren product is available at most quality health food stores. Good luck! Kind regards, Kristin Kristin Beckedahl Naturopath, Nutritionist, NaturalFertility Management Karratha, WA. From: "Cheryl LHK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding and constipation Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:56:05 +1000 Dear List Does anyone have any ideas why a perfectly healthy 6+ month old baby (fully breastfed - still is) is suddenly getting badly constipated? Since birth she has regularly gone 48-72 hours between full nappies with no concern from her or Mum; starting solids slowly - pureed fruit and veges and chewing on Sao's with sore gums. Went 8 days (bit of a drama by day 6 - very unhappy baby) and was shockingly distressed by day 8. Used water, infant coloxyl, massage etc We are now heading into day 4 - starting to get a bit restless (the baby) again. Cheryl _ Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. Click here. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] National Register of ALL Independent ChildbirthEducators (NICE)
Hi Julie, It could also go on our Essential Parents pages on our web site, this is accessed by a lot of people who would find it useful info. We get a steady stream of calls from parents to the Birth International office looking for classes and we always give out names of independent educators (when we have them). Getting the list togetehr is the easy part - keeping it current will be harder.! Thanks for sorting this out for us all, Warm regards, Andrea Hi Julie When you get the list together you are welcome to include it in the ASIM Members Directory (as you belong to ASIM hope you are financial) It would make a nice accompaniment to the document and we are hoping to get it up on the www soon so more people will be able to access it. Jan - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding and constipation
- Original Message - From: Cheryl LHK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 6:56 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding and constipation Dear List Does anyone have any ideas why a perfectly healthy 6+ month old baby (fully breastfed - still is) is suddenly getting badly constipated? Since birth she has regularly gone 48-72 hours between full nappies with no concern from her or Mum; starting solids slowly - pureed fruit and veges and chewing on Sao's with sore gums. Went 8 days (bit of a drama by day 6 - very unhappy baby) and was shockingly distressed by day 8. Used water, infant coloxyl, massage etc We are now heading into day 4 - starting to get a bit restless (the baby) again. Cheryl _ Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] National Register of ALL Independent ChildbirthEducators (NICE)
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] National Register of ALL Independent Childbirth Educators (NICE) Hi julie, I came across someone on the chat line who had requested business cards be sent to heras part of her course of studies. I thought to my self that she should have a nice list of midwives because of this. Her name is Judy Chapman P.O Box 1524 Mareeba QLD 4880 Maybe you might be interested Terry Stockdale - Original Message - From: Julie Clarke To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 4:27 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] National Register of ALL Independent ChildbirthEducators (NICE) Fabulous Jan and yes I am financial J I will send you (direct) the current list and will forward regular updates. I cant add attachments to the ozmid list so anyone else who would also like the NICE list please let me know and Ill develop a list a regular mailing list of you J Goodness lucky Im a list person!!! Hug Julie Julie Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Childbirth and Parenting Educator Transition into Parenthood 9 Withybrook Pl Sylvania NSW 2224. T. (02) 9544 6441 Mobile 0401 2655 30 -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan RobinsonSent: Tuesday, 15 July 2003 3:13 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] National Register of ALL Independent ChildbirthEducators (NICE) Hi JulieWhen you get the list together you are welcome to include it in the ASIM Members Directory (as you belong to ASIM hope you are financial) It would make a nice accompaniment to the document and we are hoping to get it up on the www soon so more people will be able to access it.JanOn 14/7/03 2:27 PM, "Julie Clarke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyoneEvery now and then, I will be asked to refer someone to another Independent Educator somewhere in Australia and I am often unable to help simply because there does not seem to be a register of Independent Educators anywhere.So I thought lets do it lets pull the information together so that anytime I am asked I can readily refer.I am currently working on developing a list of all Independent Childbirth Educators in Australia and might look at getting it printed professionally J to make available for distribution.If you are an independent childbirth educator who would like to be added to the list then please send your details to me for inclusion.(On the other hand, if you know someone who would like to be on the list then please forward this email to them).Name:Address:Telephone:Facsimile:Mobile:Email:Details of Independent Childbirth Education Classes offered:The region of area you would describe as your catchment area and the hospitals in that catchment.I hope you can all help me Of course I will let you know when its complete and make it available to you. I will call this list: NICE 2003 - National Independent Childbirth Educators 2003.How funky is that, eh?hugJulie ClarkeChildbirth and Parenting EducatorTransition into Parenthood9 Withybrook PlSylvania NSW 2224.T. (02) 9544 6441Fax: (02) 9544 9257Mobile 0401 2655 30Catchment: St George and Sutherland Shire Region in the South Eastern Sydney.
RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing
I apologize in advance for rehashing an old topic of discussion, but I need to get this off my chest. I had a 36 week ANC appointment with one of the hospital OBs yesterday and I left the appointment shaking with anger. I also left questioning my own wishes and plans. I was asked if I realized the risks of a VB due to my tear. I answered to the affirmative. I was asked if I truly appreciated the great possibilities of incontinence if I had a VB. I answered yes, but didnt engage in a debate over the actual research done and what may cause the incontinence.. I was then asked how I felt in the event of a successful VB, with no tear, still meaning that 10-20-30-40 years down the track I would most likely still need a colostomy bag due to the damage to the perineal nerves/muscles- all linking back to my ungiving scar tissue and my adamant wish to have a VB. How does he expect me to feel, with this doom and gloom prediction being spouted in an extremely patronizing tone of voice? He went on and on for about 6-7 minutes about how I must realize the risks that my choices could entail. I felt my face getting hot, I felt sweat beading on my upper lip, I started shaking. The only part of my wishes that he actually approved was the possibility of an episiotomy.. Then he started on my wish for a physiological 3rd stage- again predicting doom and gloom. His exact wording was Sure it is great to have a natural delivery of the placenta, but you can also die naturally from massive blood loss. Did you know that a PPH can mean that blood is running with the speed of a household tap and before you know it you have lost 3000cc of blood? I just nodded dumbly in shock and disbelief.. Today I doubt myself, my abilities, my wishes, my knowledge, my body. I feel physically sick, thinking of all the women who go to see a doctor and end up being scared into submission. No wonder the rates of intervention are so high, no wonder the concept of a normal, natural birth doesnt actually mean what it sounds like.. I am scared of this birth, I am wavering in my resolve to not have a c-section just in case. I feel empty. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lois Wattis Sent: Friday, 6 June 2003 10:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing Dear Isis - I am impressed with your response to Jo, and the way you have worked through your own experiences. Congratulations. You display courage and wisdom in your choice to birth (again)as naturally as possible. Iapplaud and endorse the advice given by the private OB. Being upright through labour and especially the use of water immersion which assists the process of softening and stretchingthe perineum, and 'feeling' your own progress in the expulsive stage. Most importantly, allowing the time for the crowning and birth of the baby's headand body to be SLOW, and not forced in any way - YOU WILL PROBABLY NOT NEED AN EPISIOTOMY!!Manybirth practitioners (midwives AND ob's) get very anxious when the birth is slow, and feel compelled to intervene, especially if the birth is in water.Birth in water is gentle on baby and on you...Be guided by your instincts. Best wishes, and let us know how it goes. Kind regards, Lois - Original Message - From: Isis and Andrew Caple To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 6:19 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing Hi Jo, I tore to the 4th degree with my daughters birth. A mix of factors caused it- very fast labour, compound hand and forced pushing while on my back with my legs braced on midwives hips.. My poor perineum didnt stand a chance.. Unlike your lady, I have had no problems healing, with incontinence or sexual dysfunction. This birth I have been advised by hospital OBs to have a c-section. Any midwife I speak to disagrees with that recommendation. A private OB agreed that a VB was indeed possible, but to keep upright, active during first stage. During second stage, no forced pushing as such. Follow my urges and to breathe/grunt with the uncontrollable urges. An episiotomy may be advisable while babes head is crowning to take the pressure off the peri scar tissue. This same OB mentioned being in a bath, peri massage, hot compresses, having my hands on my peri to feel what is happening- but most important, stay off my back J I wish your lady luck and strength. It is a hard decision to make and only one that we (as the mother) can make. We are the ones that have to stick up for ourselves and take the bit between our teeth.. Then we have to be the one to climb back on the horse and ride again if we fall off.. I shall keep you all posted as to how this birth goes. Less then 10 weeks till birth time finds this family again J Cheers- Isis -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M T Holroyd Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2003
RE: [ozmidwifery] Ridiculous Story in the Good Weekend
Hi Julieand others, is it possible to post the article or a link on ozmid. I'm in Adelaide , so havn't seen it. I like your response and would love to put both in our birth consumer group newsletter, thanks Megan -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Julie ClarkeSent: Monday, 14 July 2003 3:10To: Ozmidwifery Mailing ListSubject: [ozmidwifery] Ridiculous Story in the Good Weekend Hi Below is my response to the SMH Good Weekend article hope they are inundated with lots of letters - SMH Letters [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can tell it pressed my buttons J Do you like my last point? Hug to all Julie -Original Message-From: Julie Clarke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 14 July 2003 3:34 PMTo: SMH LettersSubject: Ridiculous Story in the Good Weekend Mia Freedman in her article criticising Birth Plans and Natural Birth reveals herself as a woman who had unrealistic expectations about labour and birth, an unpreparedness to understand and work with her body during labour, along with bizarre ideas about maintaining appearances (her hairdo) instead of embracing the use of a hot shower for pain relief. What a strangely old-fashioned aspect that was to her birth story. I had heard stories from some of my friends who were like Mia and it taught me that attitude was everything when it comes to birthing luckily, I was able to learn from their mistakes, made smart choices. With enough courage and determination had a natural birth in the squatting position with my first baby and then a homebirth waterbirth with my second baby, all the while cared for by wise and wonderful midwives. So Mia was spitting the dummy when her birth wasnt quick and easy, didnt go according to plan and rather than accepting the responsibility for her own behaviour, she is turning her anger on to others and blaming those who endorse natural birth. Well there is a little more to it than the superficial tone to your article Mia. Becoming pregnant is a very grown up thing to do, fortunately there is usually about 9 months to realise this. Many women approach it as a personal growth experience both physically and emotionally, they listen and learn from experienced mothers, read a wide variety of books, attend good quality birth and parenting preparation sessions, accept the responsibility for decision-making and choose wise options. Many couples recognise the time during the pregnancy when changes to lifestyle need to occur, they talk more about the future, they plan all sorts of things together (only one of these elements is a birth plan) and they will often discover a maturing of their relationship. They become closer and work more as a team together this is exactly what a baby needs from its mum and dad isnt it? Julie Clarke T. (02) 9544 6441
RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing
Dear Isis, Please keep hold of your knowledge and belief in yourself. Unfortunately stupid, overbearing people exist in this world, and usually "kick" you while you are vulnerable. This man should be hung drawn and quartered, then hitched up by his soft bits also. What right has he to scare any woman that way. I am so angry for you that I cannot even spell any more. Please take care of yourself and remember to believe love Judy Giesaitis
Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing
Isis, Where are you? Can you accessmidwifery care? You need support, encouragement and a big hug!What you have experienced would shakethe most committed natural birth advocate. Don't despair just yet. Let's see if someone withinthe ozmid network canassist... Love Lois - Original Message - From: Isis and Andrew Caple To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 7:56 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing I apologize in advance for rehashing an old topic of discussion, but I need to get this off my chest. I had a 36 week ANC appointment with one of the hospital OBs yesterday and I left the appointment shaking with anger. I also left questioning my own wishes and plans. I was asked if I realized the risks of a VB due to my tear. I answered to the affirmative. I was asked if I truly appreciated the great possibilities of incontinence if I had a VB. I answered yes, but didnt engage in a debate over the actual research done and what may cause the incontinence.. I was then asked how I felt in the event of a successful VB, with no tear, still meaning that 10-20-30-40 years down the track I would most likely still need a colostomy bag due to the damage to the perineal nerves/muscles- all linking back to my ungiving scar tissue and my adamant wish to have a VB. How does he expect me to feel, with this doom and gloom prediction being spouted in an extremely patronizing tone of voice? He went on and on for about 6-7 minutes about how I must realize the risks that my choices could entail. I felt my face getting hot, I felt sweat beading on my upper lip, I started shaking. The only part of my wishes that he actually approved was the possibility of an episiotomy.. Then he started on my wish for a physiological 3rd stage- again predicting doom and gloom. His exact wording was Sure it is great to have a natural delivery of the placenta, but you can also die naturally from massive blood loss. Did you know that a PPH can mean that blood is running with the speed of a household tap and before you know it you have lost 3000cc of blood? I just nodded dumbly in shock and disbelief.. Today I doubt myself, my abilities, my wishes, my knowledge, my body. I feel physically sick, thinking of all the women who go to see a doctor and end up being scared into submission. No wonder the rates of intervention are so high, no wonder the concept of a normal, natural birth doesnt actually mean what it sounds like.. I am scared of this birth, I am wavering in my resolve to not have a c-section just in case. I feel empty. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lois WattisSent: Friday, 6 June 2003 10:15 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing Dear Isis - I am impressed with your response to Jo, and the way you have worked through your own experiences. Congratulations. You display courage and wisdom in your choice to birth (again)as naturally as possible. Iapplaud and endorse the advice given by the private OB. Being upright through labour and especially the use of water immersion which assists the process of softening and stretchingthe perineum, and 'feeling' your own progress in the expulsive stage. Most importantly, allowing the time for the crowning and birth of the baby's headand body to be SLOW, and not forced in any way - YOU WILL PROBABLY NOT NEED AN EPISIOTOMY!!Manybirth practitioners (midwives AND ob's) get very anxious when the birth is slow, and feel compelled to intervene, especially if the birth is in water.Birth in water is gentle on baby and on you...Be guided by your instincts. Best wishes, and let us know how it goes. Kind regards, Lois - Original Message - From: Isis and Andrew Caple To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 6:19 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing Hi Jo, I tore to the 4th degree with my daughters birth. A mix of factors caused it- very fast labour, compound hand and forced pushing while on my back with my legs braced on midwives hips.. My poor perineum didnt stand a chance.. Unlike your lady, I have had no problems healing, with incontinence or sexual dysfunction. This birth I have been advised by hospital OBs to have a c-section. Any midwife I speak to disagrees with that recommendation. A private OB agreed that a VB was indeed possible, but to keep upright, active during first stage. During second stage, no forced pushing as such. Follow my urges and to breathe/grunt with the uncontrollable urges. An episiotomy may be advisable while babes head is crowning
RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing
My heart goes out to you, I'm not a midwife but I know enough to know youv'e been bullied. I had a second degree tear with my first which I think was brought on by obs coaching to push my baby out. Second baby was born at home in the water, wonderful midwife and only my breath and involuntary pushing to birth my baby, small first degree tear, no stitching required. Third baby at home, same results. I also had a physiological third stage for both bubs at home. I truly believe that you must have faith in what you are trying to do and must also have faith in those supporting you. I don't know what options you have regarding who you birth with, but it may be worth seeking other care providers. We did our homework, and were greatly supported by our midwife, we accepted the associated risks and birthed as best we could. It is important to be informed of possible adverse outcomes, but this can't be your focus, or your carers. Nows a good time to be with like minded people, readingpositive birth stories, be kind to yourselfand take a breath to get back on track for the birth of your baby. I hope you are feeling better, and your birth goes well, love Megan -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Isis and Andrew CapleSent: Wednesday, 16 July 2003 9:27To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing I apologize in advance for rehashing an old topic of discussion, but I need to get this off my chest. I had a 36 week ANC appointment with one of the hospital OBs yesterday and I left the appointment shaking with anger. I also left questioning my own wishes and plans. I was asked if I realized the risks of a VB due to my tear. I answered to the affirmative. I was asked if I truly appreciated the great possibilities of incontinence if I had a VB. I answered yes, but didnt engage in a debate over the actual research done and what may cause the incontinence.. I was then asked how I felt in the event of a successful VB, with no tear, still meaning that 10-20-30-40 years down the track I would most likely still need a colostomy bag due to the damage to the perineal nerves/muscles- all linking back to my ungiving scar tissue and my adamant wish to have a VB. How does he expect me to feel, with this doom and gloom prediction being spouted in an extremely patronizing tone of voice? He went on and on for about 6-7 minutes about how I must realize the risks that my choices could entail. I felt my face getting hot, I felt sweat beading on my upper lip, I started shaking. The only part of my wishes that he actually approved was the possibility of an episiotomy.. Then he started on my wish for a physiological 3rd stage- again predicting doom and gloom. His exact wording was Sure it is great to have a natural delivery of the placenta, but you can also die naturally from massive blood loss. Did you know that a PPH can mean that blood is running with the speed of a household tap and before you know it you have lost 3000cc of blood? I just nodded dumbly in shock and disbelief.. Today I doubt myself, my abilities, my wishes, my knowledge, my body. I feel physically sick, thinking of all the women who go to see a doctor and end up being scared into submission. No wonder the rates of intervention are so high, no wonder the concept of a normal, natural birth doesnt actually mean what it sounds like.. I am scared of this birth, I am wavering in my resolve to not have a c-section just in case. I feel empty.
Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing
My thoughts exactly Isis. We (members of this list) do seem to be everywhere, so hopefully one or some of us can help. I also totally agree with Judy's plans for this doctor. marilyn - Original Message - From: Lois Wattis To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing Isis, Where are you? Can you accessmidwifery care? You need support, encouragement and a big hug!What you have experienced would shakethe most committed natural birth advocate. Don't despair just yet. Let's see if someone withinthe ozmid network canassist... Love Lois - Original Message - From: Isis and Andrew Caple To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 7:56 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing I apologize in advance for rehashing an old topic of discussion, but I need to get this off my chest. I had a 36 week ANC appointment with one of the hospital OBs yesterday and I left the appointment shaking with anger. I also left questioning my own wishes and plans. I was asked if I realized the risks of a VB due to my tear. I answered to the affirmative. I was asked if I truly appreciated the great possibilities of incontinence if I had a VB. I answered yes, but didnt engage in a debate over the actual research done and what may cause the incontinence.. I was then asked how I felt in the event of a successful VB, with no tear, still meaning that 10-20-30-40 years down the track I would most likely still need a colostomy bag due to the damage to the perineal nerves/muscles- all linking back to my ungiving scar tissue and my adamant wish to have a VB. How does he expect me to feel, with this doom and gloom prediction being spouted in an extremely patronizing tone of voice? He went on and on for about 6-7 minutes about how I must realize the risks that my choices could entail. I felt my face getting hot, I felt sweat beading on my upper lip, I started shaking. The only part of my wishes that he actually approved was the possibility of an episiotomy.. Then he started on my wish for a physiological 3rd stage- again predicting doom and gloom. His exact wording was Sure it is great to have a natural delivery of the placenta, but you can also die naturally from massive blood loss. Did you know that a PPH can mean that blood is running with the speed of a household tap and before you know it you have lost 3000cc of blood? I just nodded dumbly in shock and disbelief.. Today I doubt myself, my abilities, my wishes, my knowledge, my body. I feel physically sick, thinking of all the women who go to see a doctor and end up being scared into submission. No wonder the rates of intervention are so high, no wonder the concept of a normal, natural birth doesnt actually mean what it sounds like.. I am scared of this birth, I am wavering in my resolve to not have a c-section just in case. I feel empty. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lois WattisSent: Friday, 6 June 2003 10:15 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing Dear Isis - I am impressed with your response to Jo, and the way you have worked through your own experiences. Congratulations. You display courage and wisdom in your choice to birth (again)as naturally as possible. Iapplaud and endorse the advice given by the private OB. Being upright through labour and especially the use of water immersion which assists the process of softening and stretchingthe perineum, and 'feeling' your own progress in the expulsive stage. Most importantly, allowing the time for the crowning and birth of the baby's headand body to be SLOW, and not forced in any way - YOU WILL PROBABLY NOT NEED AN EPISIOTOMY!!Manybirth practitioners (midwives AND ob's) get very anxious when the birth is slow, and feel compelled to intervene, especially if the birth is in water.Birth in water is gentle on baby and on you...Be guided by your instincts. Best wishes, and let us know how it goes. Kind regards, Lois - Original Message - From: Isis and Andrew Caple To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 6:19 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing Hi Jo, I tore to the 4th degree with my daughters birth. A mix of factors caused it- very fast labour, compound hand and forced pushing while on my back with my legs braced
RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing
I am actually under the care of the midwives clinic attached to the Geelong Hospital and I have loved all the midwives that I have met so far. They are all very supportive of my wishes and ideas. I had a laugh with the last midwife I saw about the fact that I would be propositioned by the OB at this appointment to have a c-sec. But I didnt dream that I would face what I did.. I understand about liability, responsibility, harm minimisation and all the stuff that makes up hospital policy- but I never expected to feel so ridiculed by someone who should be glad that I am willing to take responsibility for my body and the birth of our child.. Informed choices, informed decisions are what we are told to make these days- but they forgot to mention that if these choices/decisions arent what is recommended, then shock tactics may be introduced. If anyone out there does know of a woman who has experienced a tear like mine, then gone on to survive a subsequent VB, I would really appreciate hearing their story. Even any of you lovely ladies out there that have cared for women like me, I would love to hear a positive story/outcome.. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Larry Megan Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2003 10:52 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing My heart goes out to you, I'm not a midwife but I know enough to know youv'e been bullied. I had a second degree tear with my first which I think was brought on by obs coaching to push my baby out. Second baby was born at home in the water, wonderful midwife and only my breath and involuntary pushing to birth my baby, small first degree tear, no stitching required. Third baby at home, same results. I also had a physiological third stage for both bubs at home. I truly believe that you must have faith in what you are trying to do and must also have faith in those supporting you. I don't know what options you have regarding who you birth with, but it may be worth seeking other care providers. We did our homework, and were greatly supported by our midwife, we accepted the associated risks and birthed as best we could. It is important to be informed of possible adverse outcomes, but this can't be your focus, or your carers. Nows a good time to be with like minded people, readingpositive birth stories, be kind to yourselfand take a breath to get back on track for the birth of your baby. I hope you are feeling better, and your birth goes well, love Megan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Isis and Andrew Caple Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2003 9:27 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing I apologize in advance for rehashing an old topic of discussion, but I need to get this off my chest. I had a 36 week ANC appointment with one of the hospital OBs yesterday and I left the appointment shaking with anger. I also left questioning my own wishes and plans. I was asked if I realized the risks of a VB due to my tear. I answered to the affirmative. I was asked if I truly appreciated the great possibilities of incontinence if I had a VB. I answered yes, but didnt engage in a debate over the actual research done and what may cause the incontinence.. I was then asked how I felt in the event of a successful VB, with no tear, still meaning that 10-20-30-40 years down the track I would most likely still need a colostomy bag due to the damage to the perineal nerves/muscles- all linking back to my ungiving scar tissue and my adamant wish to have a VB. How does he expect me to feel, with this doom and gloom prediction being spouted in an extremely patronizing tone of voice? He went on and on for about 6-7 minutes about how I must realize the risks that my choices could entail. I felt my face getting hot, I felt sweat beading on my upper lip, I started shaking. The only part of my wishes that he actually approved was the possibility of an episiotomy.. Then he started on my wish for a physiological 3rd stage- again predicting doom and gloom. His exact wording was Sure it is great to have a natural delivery of the placenta, but you can also die naturally from massive blood loss. Did you know that a PPH can mean that blood is running with the speed of a household tap and before you know it you have lost 3000cc of blood? I just nodded dumbly in shock and disbelief.. Today I doubt myself, my abilities, my wishes, my knowledge, my body. I feel physically sick, thinking of all the women who go to see a doctor and end up being scared into submission. No wonder the rates of intervention are so high, no wonder the concept of a normal, natural birth doesnt actually mean what it sounds like.. I am scared of this birth, I am wavering in my resolve to not have a c-section just in case. I feel empty.
Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing
Dear Isis I hope you can continue to effectively channel your rightful response to this incident. I feel you need to consider doing the following 1) Write a letter of complaint to the hospital where this doctor works if he is an employee If not to your state health complaints commission and medical board as this is intimidation and contrary to your right and his duty to giverespectful treatment and informed consent, let alone evidence based practices!\ Ask for a letter of apologyor the evidence that supports any of his contentionslet alone his intimidatory presentation as professional let alone therapeutic! 2) withdrawing from the care of theinstitution that accepts such treatment. If you want the highest likelihood of a natural vaginal birth then go to those who deliver such outcomes the most, midwives. As Lois said Is there a midwifery only program where you are or a midwife in private practice?If you truly want this why are you where this is not offered and it seems not recommended and therefore probably not produced??Denise Hynd - Original Message - From: Isis and Andrew Caple To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 4:56 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing I apologize in advance for rehashing an old topic of discussion, but I need to get this off my chest. I had a 36 week ANC appointment with one of the hospital OBs yesterday and I left the appointment shaking with anger. I also left questioning my own wishes and plans. I was asked if I realized the risks of a VB due to my tear. I answered to the affirmative. I was asked if I truly appreciated the great possibilities of incontinence if I had a VB. I answered yes, but didnt engage in a debate over the actual research done and what may cause the incontinence.. I was then asked how I felt in the event of a successful VB, with no tear, still meaning that 10-20-30-40 years down the track I would most likely still need a colostomy bag due to the damage to the perineal nerves/muscles- all linking back to my ungiving scar tissue and my adamant wish to have a VB. How does he expect me to feel, with this doom and gloom prediction being spouted in an extremely patronizing tone of voice? He went on and on for about 6-7 minutes about how I must realize the risks that my choices could entail. I felt my face getting hot, I felt sweat beading on my upper lip, I started shaking. The only part of my wishes that he actually approved was the possibility of an episiotomy.. Then he started on my wish for a physiological 3rd stage- again predicting doom and gloom. His exact wording was Sure it is great to have a natural delivery of the placenta, but you can also die naturally from massive blood loss. Did you know that a PPH can mean that blood is running with the speed of a household tap and before you know it you have lost 3000cc of blood? I just nodded dumbly in shock and disbelief.. Today I doubt myself, my abilities, my wishes, my knowledge, my body. I feel physically sick, thinking of all the women who go to see a doctor and end up being scared into submission. No wonder the rates of intervention are so high, no wonder the concept of a normal, natural birth doesnt actually mean what it sounds like.. I am scared of this birth, I am wavering in my resolve to not have a c-section just in case. I feel empty. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lois WattisSent: Friday, 6 June 2003 10:15 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing Dear Isis - I am impressed with your response to Jo, and the way you have worked through your own experiences. Congratulations. You display courage and wisdom in your choice to birth (again)as naturally as possible. Iapplaud and endorse the advice given by the private OB. Being upright through labour and especially the use of water immersion which assists the process of softening and stretchingthe perineum, and 'feeling' your own progress in the expulsive stage. Most importantly, allowing the time for the crowning and birth of the baby's headand body to be SLOW, and not forced in any way - YOU WILL PROBABLY NOT NEED AN EPISIOTOMY!!Manybirth practitioners (midwives AND ob's) get very anxious when the birth is slow, and feel compelled to intervene, especially if the birth is in water.Birth in water is gentle on baby and on you...Be guided by your instincts. Best wishes, and let us know how it goes. Kind regards, Lois - Original Message - From: Isis and Andrew Caple To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 6:19 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing Hi Jo,
RE: [ozmidwifery] Ridiculous Story in the Good Weekend
Hi Megan You are welcome to use my posting in your newsletter as for a link to the original article I dont know what that would be. Can only suggest finding last Saturday Herald link and then looking for the insert magazine the Good Weekend sorry I didnt have it for you. Help someone please J Hug Julie Julie Clarke Childbirth and Parenting Educator Transition into Parenthood 9 Withybrook Pl Sylvania NSW 2224. T. (02) 9544 6441 Mobile 0401 2655 30 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Larry Megan Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2003 10:25 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Ridiculous Story in the Good Weekend Hi Julieand others, is it possible to post the article or a link on ozmid. I'm in Adelaide , so havn't seen it. I like your response and would love to put both in our birth consumer group newsletter, thanks Megan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Julie Clarke Sent: Monday, 14 July 2003 3:10 To: Ozmidwifery Mailing List Subject: [ozmidwifery] Ridiculous Story in the Good Weekend Hi Below is my response to the SMH Good Weekend article hope they are inundated with lots of letters - SMH Letters [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can tell it pressed my buttons J Do you like my last point? Hug to all Julie -Original Message- From: Julie Clarke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 14 July 2003 3:34 PM To: SMH Letters Subject: Ridiculous Story in the Good Weekend Mia Freedman in her article criticising Birth Plans and Natural Birth reveals herself as a woman who had unrealistic expectations about labour and birth, an unpreparedness to understand and work with her body during labour, along with bizarre ideas about maintaining appearances (her hairdo) instead of embracing the use of a hot shower for pain relief. What a strangely old-fashioned aspect that was to her birth story. I had heard stories from some of my friends who were like Mia and it taught me that attitude was everything when it comes to birthing luckily, I was able to learn from their mistakes, made smart choices. With enough courage and determination had a natural birth in the squatting position with my first baby and then a homebirth waterbirth with my second baby, all the while cared for by wise and wonderful midwives. So Mia was spitting the dummy when her birth wasnt quick and easy, didnt go according to plan and rather than accepting the responsibility for her own behaviour, she is turning her anger on to others and blaming those who endorse natural birth. Well there is a little more to it than the superficial tone to your article Mia. Becoming pregnant is a very grown up thing to do, fortunately there is usually about 9 months to realise this. Many women approach it as a personal growth experience both physically and emotionally, they listen and learn from experienced mothers, read a wide variety of books, attend good quality birth and parenting preparation sessions, accept the responsibility for decision-making and choose wise options. Many couples recognise the time during the pregnancy when changes to lifestyle need to occur, they talk more about the future, they plan all sorts of things together (only one of these elements is a birth plan) and they will often discover a maturing of their relationship. They become closer and work more as a team together this is exactly what a baby needs from its mum and dad isnt it? Julie Clarke T. (02) 9544 6441
[ozmidwifery] FW: Good Weekend July 12
Title: FW: Good Weekend July 12 Hello Ozmidders, my letter re the Good Weekend FYI Justine -- Forwarded Message From: Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:49:51 +1100 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Good Weekend July 12 To The Editor How disappointing that Mia Freedman entered a world of self indulgence rather than using the article to help improve maternity services (Great Expectations, July 12). As women we are united in wanting the best outcomes for our babies and ourselves, and the vast majority of us want to do it naturally, yet most of us do not achieve it. Women are not failures the maternity system is. 99% of Australian women share their most intimate moments with strangers. In other countries like New Zealand, the Netherlands and the U.K women are able to form a relationship with a known midwife from early pregnancy, one that will be there during labour and birth and provide the all important post natal support (in the womans home) for between 4 and 6 weeks. These countries have better outcomes than Australia for mothers and babies and record cheaper maternity services. I am a mother of 3 that has experienced this care. The days I gave birth were the best I my life, euphoric in fact. Yes I did this naturally, not because I am a zealot, because I was supported by a midwife I knew. This care is recognised as international best practice and yet only 1% of women can access this care. Australian women must unite to demand more appropriate choices in maternity care. To date 29 parliamentary enquiries across the country in the last 20 years all recommend greater access to best practice and yet the vested interests continue to keep women from receiving care that has proven to be better and cheaper for the majority. Justine Caines 69 Vennacher St Merriwa NSW 2329 Ph 0408210273 -- End of Forwarded Message
