Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA
A couple in an Antenatal class today said that they had read of plans that the hospitals will be keeping the heelprick DNA information for a government database of all newborn babies. Apparently the DNA info will be kept indefinitely. Has anyone heard anything about this? Christina -Original Message- From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, 20 October 2003 4:19 Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA I wince at compulsory testing too. Surely as Sally says, encouragement from midwives for the test to be done and good education on the benefits of screening, ensurance that the test is not omitted through pratitioner/health system neglect, a domicillary midwifery effort to document and collect the tests not done in hospital, and perhaps compulsory submission of unfilled sample papers (by practitioners) should parents truly decline to have their baby screened. However, I think we must support parents' right to make decisions we may not agree with. marilyn - Original Message - From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA We passed on pretty much everything but this test and it was a complete non-event, my daughter fed through the test without even wincing, I can't really understand why you wouldn't do it. But the idea of making it compulsory scares me, I wonder what would be next - many people can't understand why I wouldn't vaccinate. At 12:06 +1000 20/10/03, Sally Williams wrote: Personally, I believe that parents should be encouraged to have this test on their babies. Surely a moment's discomfort is worth a lifetime of illness, or no life at all! Sally - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]margaret schmidt To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 1:35 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA Hi everyone Found this snippet this morning. Going to be published in MJA this week. Will make for some interesting conversation at work. I hope I have pasted the link correctly. The word mandatory always sends shivers down my spine. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/Health/story_52510.asphttp://news.ninemsn.com.a u/Health/story_52510.asp Have a great day Michelle -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: ausfem-polnet Randomised controlled trial
Title: Message I'm happy to move on from this OT discussion. I've had a hell of a week with my neice's botched up birth and all and don't really have the energy to argue the point at the moment. Cheers, Cas. Cas McCullough [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.casmccullough.com -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marilyn KleidonSent: Saturday, 25 October 2003 11:10 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: ausfem-polnet Randomised controlled trial Cas: I think the woman concerned was simply trying to state how well recovered she was physically. I was horrified at her driving home from hospital at 5 days post birth - have to admit I couldn't have done that, the driving I mean, Iwas a fruit loop behind the wheel for a few weeks after my births (probably still am 22 yrs later just more aware in that vulnerable period??). marilyn - Original Message - From: Wayne and Caroline McCullough To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 6:17 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: ausfem-polnet Randomised controlled trial Ummm... I mean't no judgement here just making an observation about priorities... I personally think it is very sad to go back to work 2 weeks after the birth of your baby no matter how you are recovering but I realise some would have to... it was just the way it was said, as if it was a great accomplishment (isn't birth and motherhood a great accomplishment we should relish too?) to go back to work so soon. Maybe I'm just reading too much into the statement... I'll stop now before I put my foot even deeper down my throat... : ) NO offence intended... I support all choice! cheers, Cas. (who went back to work on the birthcare reform campaign 4 weeks after birth : ) ) Cas McCullough [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.casmccullough.com -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jen SempleSent: Friday, 24 October 2003 4:22 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: ausfem-polnet Randomised controlled trial I know it's a little of topic, but I just wanted to respond to the scentence below... While I personally can't imagine going back to work 2 YEARS after my babies are born (assuming I have the choice), I think it's really important that we don't judge individuals based on their choices. One of the hardest things about birth politics for me is the polarisation... doctor vs. midwife, "natural" birth vs. elective caesar/epidural, etc. It's so sad, cause we all want the same thing CHOICE (which women who want one-to-one midwifery care are being denied). In solidarity (thanks Justine), Jen (fancy thinking your priority is to go back to work 2 weeks after a babyis born! Gotta wonder what hormones were or were not working there) Yahoo! Personals- New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time!
Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA
Yes - I have heard this here in WA. Debbie Slater Perth, WA - -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Another unec. C-section...
Hi all! Well, last night we got a call that our neice Sarah was in labour and at the hospital after having 2 days of back labour (early labour for 18 hours and active for 12 according to the hospital). She was exhausted so she had an epidural and the rest you can guess. The thing is, she had dilated to six cm but doc comes and in and says it has been too long and that the baby's heartrate was dipping a bit with each contraction (which is normal is it not?) and it might be in distress in a few hours time (doc's bedtime my thought was). So, he coerced them into having the c-section on the offchance that the baby might be in distress later. Maybe she would have been too tired to keep going much longer I don't know but I do know an unnecessary c-section when I hear words like that. Apparently the attending midwife at that point was pissed off and rightly so. Sarah's mum says Sarah was quite traumatised by the whole thing. I am going to visit her and her new baby girl tomorrow to see how she's doing. That said, I cannot stress enough the importance of giving a new mother a listening ear after an experience like that. Mothers need to debrief..their feelings are important and they often get sidelined by family and friends because everyone focuses on the baby. Cheers, Cas Cas McCullough [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.casmccullough.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lynne Staff Sent: Monday, 20 October 2003 6:33 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald Hey Nigel! Welcome back! - Original Message - From: Selangor Maternity Centre [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 4:21 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald Hi All, Thanks Lynne whereas I agree with the main theme of the inappropriateness of such a trial it is the randomisation that appears to be the major sticking point. I would welcome a comparative trial as it would show, in my opinion without a shadow of a doubt the benefits of vaginal birth over an over employed obstetric intervention. The trial would instantly be flawed but I fear like the breech trial would become a singular point of reference to all wishing to simply advise women rather than empower women through information. We know the flaws in the touted breech trial were the location and quality of staff chosen to assist in womens pursuence of vaginal breech. The lack of familiarity or experience itself was somewhat prohibitive. Not much is made of this in the official critiques of this now perceived benchmark study and as a result women are misinformed and disempowered through a lack of information. In the case for elective caesareans this would be the same, a unit where the randomisation of women to that extent could occur is not very likely to be an actively birthing women centered unit? Now if we can only remove the messy hit or miss act of conception by a controlled trialbut then there is sometimes a lack of experience in this department too for many...LOL Love and Peace Nigel -Original Message- From: Lynne Staff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 19 October 2003 09:45 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald there is this trial which gives you a 50-50 chance of totally avoiding all this pain A father-to-be I saw the other day, whose wife has had 2 caesareans (and is having the devil of a time finding anyone to support her for a planned vaginal birth), made the very pertinent point that 'natural' (read vaginal) birth is ALWAYS portrayed as the worst pain a woman can ever have - too terrible to contemplate, unbearable and totally avoidable, while the portrayal of caesarean birth is ALWAYS pain-free, peaceful, smiles all round.etc Should publish some photos/stories of infected wounds, blood loss, how women vomit when their uterus is pulled outside their abdominal cavity, because it is easier to suture, the trouble they have accessing their babies because of the physical limitation of spinals and post-op pain (although that is becoming such an art that it is very 'manageable' nowadays), babies with lacerations on their face or buttocks, babies on oxygen, sometimes for a week, and the separation that goes with thatas you can see this is a sore point with me. This trial disturbs me greatly for many reasons - but it's not just the trial (although if the findings are that women like it better, that it is as safe), then God help us! The wholehearted embracing of the findings of the term breech trial (which scares the living daylights out of me) will pale into significance compared to this (and the findings from the term breech trial will be no doubt used to substantiate the rationale of this trial in the first place) As I see it, one of the biggest probblems
Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA
You know I've heard or read that somewhere to...maybe on this list!??? Does anyone know if it is true, don't want to start any urban legends. marilyn - Original Message - From: Christina Damien [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 3:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA A couple in an Antenatal class today said that they had read of plans that the hospitals will be keeping the heelprick DNA information for a government database of all newborn babies. Apparently the DNA info will be kept indefinitely. Has anyone heard anything about this? Christina -Original Message- From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, 20 October 2003 4:19 Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA I wince at compulsory testing too. Surely as Sally says, encouragement from midwives for the test to be done and good education on the benefits of screening, ensurance that the test is not omitted through pratitioner/health system neglect, a domicillary midwifery effort to document and collect the tests not done in hospital, and perhaps compulsory submission of unfilled sample papers (by practitioners) should parents truly decline to have their baby screened. However, I think we must support parents' right to make decisions we may not agree with. marilyn - Original Message - From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA We passed on pretty much everything but this test and it was a complete non-event, my daughter fed through the test without even wincing, I can't really understand why you wouldn't do it. But the idea of making it compulsory scares me, I wonder what would be next - many people can't understand why I wouldn't vaccinate. At 12:06 +1000 20/10/03, Sally Williams wrote: Personally, I believe that parents should be encouraged to have this test on their babies. Surely a moment's discomfort is worth a lifetime of illness, or no life at all! Sally - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]margaret schmidt To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 1:35 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA Hi everyone Found this snippet this morning. Going to be published in MJA this week. Will make for some interesting conversation at work. I hope I have pasted the link correctly. The word mandatory always sends shivers down my spine. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/Health/story_52510.asphttp://news.ninemsn.com.a u/Health/story_52510.asp Have a great day Michelle -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Epidurals breastfeeding
Just the more subtle differences it CAN make in Newborn behabior that can translate to b/f difficulties: doesn't AndreaR have a paper on that on her website. I'm sure it is mentioned by Klaus and Klaus in their papers on newborn behavoir or in their video "the Amazing Newborn". I'll dig around. marilyn - Original Message - From: Julie Clarke To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 1:58 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: Epidurals breastfeeding Thanks Marilyn have you read of any other connection between epidurals and b/f probs? Hug Julie Julie Clarke CBE Childbirth and Parenting Educator ACE Grad-Dip Supervisor NACE Advanced Educator and Trainer Transition into Parenthood 9 Withybrook Pl Sylvania NSW 2224. T. (02) 9544 6441 F. (02) 9544 9257 Mobile 0401 2655 30 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.transitionintoparenthood.com.au -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marilyn KleidonSent: Sunday, 26 October 2003 10:22 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Epidurals breastfeeding Julie: I read that abstract recently, think it was on medscape, not sure. The trouble with studies and stats like that is that they lump everyone together. It may be generally true that women who choose and achieve a drug free birth also plan to breastfeed for at least 12 months or longer but does anyone really know. It may also be true that a woman who plans a drug free birth but ends up with epidural and "the works" may be super determined to succeed at breast feeding and do the same yet someone who chooses to have the epidural in the carpark, so to speak, is happy if they breastfeed for the first couple of weeks or I could have it all about face. I had read a study similar to that 27 yrs ago when i was pregnant with my first daughter. The study was done in some Sydney hospital and indicated that women who had birth trauma: forceps, emergency c/s, were less likely to bond with their babies and less likely to b/f. I resolved there and then I was gonna bond and b/f no matter what and I did. But it could have sowed the seeds of doubt in someone else and also perhaps in staff. Anyway, I think we don't really know why at least not on an individual level because I think there are multiple answers. marilyn - Original Message --- From: Julie Clarke To: Ozmidwifery Mailing List Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 8:58 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] FW: Epidurals breastfeeding Hi I have been sent the information below about a study in WA Has anyone else heard of this study before? Im just wondering if it is true? Any comments? Regards Julie Epidurals may shorten breast feedingWomen who have an epidural during labour stop breast feeding their babies earlier than those who have a drug-free birth, an Australian study shows.The West Australian study, published in the Australian and New Zealand Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, observed almost 1,000 first-time mums at a major public obstetric hospital in Perth between 1997 and 1999."Epidural analgesia was found to be associated with shorter breast-feeding duration," the report concluded.It found that women who had an epidural had 1.4 times the risk of breastfeeding for less than six months than those who did not use any pharmacological pain relief.The researchers, from the University of Western Australia, the Women and Infants Research Foundation and King Edward Memorial Hospital, reported that women who did not receive any pain relief breast fed for significantly longer than women who were given a narcotic like pethidine or an epidural.Breast feeding time was shorter for women who only had narcotic pain relief but shortest for those given an epidural.The study said epidurals, a type of anaesthetic block injected into the spine, had not been shown to have any major adverse effects on babies, but could produce subtle neurobehavioural depression."It has been suggested that these mild effects are sufficient to impede the successful initiation of breast feeding, leading to early, unplanned cessation of breast feeding," the study notes.However, the authors said it is also possible that the findings reflected maternal coping styles.For example, a woman with a higher pain threshold during labour may be able to cope better with breast feeding difficulties after birth.A total of 992 women were recruited for the trial and 690, or 70 per cent, received an epidural.At two months, 78 per
RE: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA
Hi all, My understanding is that the body of Jayden Leskey was identified using the DNA from his heel prick test. Apparently the police can have access to the information in exceptional cases. Makes you wonder about how else this information could be used in the future doesn't it! CHEERS, Julie Garratt (: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marilyn Kleidon Sent: Sunday, 26 October 2003 11:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA You know I've heard or read that somewhere to...maybe on this list!??? Does anyone know if it is true, don't want to start any urban legends. marilyn - Original Message - From: Christina Damien [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 3:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA A couple in an Antenatal class today said that they had read of plans that the hospitals will be keeping the heelprick DNA information for a government database of all newborn babies. Apparently the DNA info will be kept indefinitely. Has anyone heard anything about this? Christina -Original Message- From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, 20 October 2003 4:19 Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA I wince at compulsory testing too. Surely as Sally says, encouragement from midwives for the test to be done and good education on the benefits of screening, ensurance that the test is not omitted through pratitioner/health system neglect, a domicillary midwifery effort to document and collect the tests not done in hospital, and perhaps compulsory submission of unfilled sample papers (by practitioners) should parents truly decline to have their baby screened. However, I think we must support parents' right to make decisions we may not agree with. marilyn - Original Message - From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA We passed on pretty much everything but this test and it was a complete non-event, my daughter fed through the test without even wincing, I can't really understand why you wouldn't do it. But the idea of making it compulsory scares me, I wonder what would be next - many people can't understand why I wouldn't vaccinate. At 12:06 +1000 20/10/03, Sally Williams wrote: Personally, I believe that parents should be encouraged to have this test on their babies. Surely a moment's discomfort is worth a lifetime of illness, or no life at all! Sally - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]margaret schmidt To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 1:35 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA Hi everyone Found this snippet this morning. Going to be published in MJA this week. Will make for some interesting conversation at work. I hope I have pasted the link correctly. The word mandatory always sends shivers down my spine. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/Health/story_52510.asphttp://news.ninemsn.c om.a u/Health/story_52510.asp Have a great day Michelle -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 1/09/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 1/09/2003 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold
Hi Cheryl I work with HypnoBirthing (a method that a woman uses to put herself into self hypnosis while she is in labour). I have been a part of many births with couples and I know that the mind definitely has control of the sensation the body will feel. Many of my mums feel only pressure and they are awake and in control of their birthing. I have not had one negative birth story since I started practicing 3 years ago even when medical intervention was needed. The relaxation and breathing still continues even if medical intevention is required, although that doesn't happen anywhere near as often. I did have one that didn't have as much success. It was a mum who had her own business at home and WORKED long hours right up until she went into labour. I had my doubts when she was in her classes that she would have all the necessary rest her body and baby needed and that she would practice so that the relaxation process it would become automatic. The concept of HypnoBirthing came from an English Obstetricial, Grantly Dick Read who back in the 1912-14 wanted to know why some women went into labour and gave birth with no fuss while others suffered excruciating pain. His research showed that the ones who trusted in the natural function of their body and relaxed would give birth with no fuss and they did. Mind you he was nearly thrown out of his profession because of his outrageous ideas. Are they so outrageous? I know they aren't. I've seen that they aren't. He wrote the book Childbirth Without Fear that was first published in 1944 and reading it today it is still totally relevant althought the old fashioned languaging makes me smile. The program is trained here in Australia by Peter Jackson, in Bowral NSW, who is himself a midwife and last week in his training he had 14 midwives amongst the participants! They had seen HypnoBirthing in practice and wanted to be able to use it to help women in labour. Even for women haven't gone through the program, the breathing and relaxation can help tremendously. The US site where it originated is www.hypnobirthing.com. Many stories up there of the successes. You have to ask why in China, Africa, India and other 3rd world countries, do mothers give birth so easily and without the excruciating pain? They trust in the natural process and they believe that it doesn't hurt and it doesn't. They are also part of a supporting community, something which is missing in our culture today with so many women focused on working rather than being at home and their mothers, aunties etc. who are out there working as well. Many young mothers have no one to turn to except their maternal health nurses. When I've attended a birth and wittness a woman giving birth gently and a midwife in tears because she hasn't wittnessed a natural birth for such a long time, I know that I'm on the right track. Mind you I have had the gruff midwives who tutt, tutt and try their bullying tactics but my couples stand their ground and often a midwife has stomped out of the room because she doesn't have the control over a situation that didn't need controlling. There are more midwives out there who care than ones who want the control factor. It's the medical training and I certainly don't blame them for following what they have been taught. A couple I am working with at the moment, the dad is an obstetrician so this program has been a real eye opener for him. His wife is relaxed and confident about her coming birth (2 weeks away). He said something the other day that really made me smile. He said that obstericians should only be there for the high risk pregnancies and that midwives should deliver all babies. YEA! Wish they all thought like that huh? I did an interview last week for Today Tonight which I hope will go to air this week sometime. It interviews one of my couples and myself about their birth and HypnoBirthing. The couple videoed their birth and boy do I wish I could show that birth to the world. A baby gently emerging into the world and a mother so calm and confident, no screaming and toally in control of her birthing. It so saddened me to read Sonia's story of Nataniel's birth and that the only problem was that he was breech. What are we doing? I just love reading you guys on this site, so passionate about birth too. You really care about the way birth is going and it gives me the confidence to know that what I am teaching is giving women back their power over their bodies and their birthings. OK I'll step off the soapbox now and say thankyou to all of you out there who want birth back to the way nature intended and for the wonderful job you all do. Sorry this is so lengthy, I just get so passionate about this subject (as if you couldn't guess) but boy it IS time we had a say in how OUR birthings go. It doesn't HAVE to be that medical incident. regards Diane Gardner -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA
I have been hearing that story for years - it also makes sense for the request to send a named but blank card for those who choose to decline the test (although this is also necessary for stats). - Original Message - From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 10:54 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA You know I've heard or read that somewhere to...maybe on this list!??? Does anyone know if it is true, don't want to start any urban legends. marilyn - Original Message - From: Christina Damien [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 3:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA A couple in an Antenatal class today said that they had read of plans that the hospitals will be keeping the heelprick DNA information for a government database of all newborn babies. Apparently the DNA info will be kept indefinitely. Has anyone heard anything about this? Christina -Original Message- From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, 20 October 2003 4:19 Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA I wince at compulsory testing too. Surely as Sally says, encouragement from midwives for the test to be done and good education on the benefits of screening, ensurance that the test is not omitted through pratitioner/health system neglect, a domicillary midwifery effort to document and collect the tests not done in hospital, and perhaps compulsory submission of unfilled sample papers (by practitioners) should parents truly decline to have their baby screened. However, I think we must support parents' right to make decisions we may not agree with. marilyn - Original Message - From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA We passed on pretty much everything but this test and it was a complete non-event, my daughter fed through the test without even wincing, I can't really understand why you wouldn't do it. But the idea of making it compulsory scares me, I wonder what would be next - many people can't understand why I wouldn't vaccinate. At 12:06 +1000 20/10/03, Sally Williams wrote: Personally, I believe that parents should be encouraged to have this test on their babies. Surely a moment's discomfort is worth a lifetime of illness, or no life at all! Sally - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]margaret schmidt To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 1:35 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA Hi everyone Found this snippet this morning. Going to be published in MJA this week. Will make for some interesting conversation at work. I hope I have pasted the link correctly. The word mandatory always sends shivers down my spine. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/Health/story_52510.asphttp://news.ninemsn.com.a u/Health/story_52510.asp Have a great day Michelle -- Jo Bourne Virtual Artists Pty Ltd -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] driving and caesareans
was able to drivemyself home on day five I was under the impression that car insurance was not valid for women (and anybody experiencing major abdimonal surgery, which caesarean is) who drive their carbefore six weeks post-operatively in some companies?
RE: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold
Hi Diane, It's great to see these principles being taught so well. They do work when the necessary diligence is applied and the principles are being validated by neuroscience (at last). All we humans are hypnotising ourselves all the time (or being hypnotised by mass media) and it is about time we learnt how to self talk (hypnotise) ourselves for outcomes we desire and work with our biological intelligence, rather than against it. Fear (adrenalin, cortisol in excess etc) is such a powerful disruptor of healthy/normal biological functioning. Increasing prefrontal cortex activity helps people feel safe and over ride amygdala hijacks. see http://edition.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/11/07/brain.fear/index.html and http://edition.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/10/09/ego.pain.ap/index.html for a quick summary. Brain research is fascinating, liberating and exciting. It is busy validating what adepts and mystics (and people like Grantley Dick Read) have told us for ages. Brain research is also validating the value of story telling in midwifery care, getting women together, enjoying food together kitchen table wisdom, defusing women's fears and providing the kind of environment that enables undisturbed birth. It takes 'soft' data and makes it 'hard' - isn't that a funny metaphor for information? especially when applied to women's birth processes ;-) And a point of clarity? Is it pain threshold or tolerance or reframing? It seems to me that all of us go ouch when stuck with a pin, self talk can help us change our perception and reaction therefore our experience of phenomena. Just philosophising and musing. Perception and attitude are everything in my mind. in solidarity (thanks Justine) Carolyn Hastie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Diane Gardner Sent: Sunday, 26 October 2003 10:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold Hi Cheryl I work with HypnoBirthing (a method that a woman uses to put herself into self hypnosis while she is in labour). I have been a part of many births with couples and I know that the mind definitely has control of the sensation the body will feel. Many of my mums feel only pressure and they are awake and in control of their birthing. I have not had one negative birth story since I started practicing 3 years ago even when medical intervention was needed. The relaxation and breathing still continues even if medical intevention is required, although that doesn't happen anywhere near as often. I did have one that didn't have as much success. It was a mum who had her own business at home and WORKED long hours right up until she went into labour. I had my doubts when she was in her classes that she would have all the necessary rest her body and baby needed and that she would practice so that the relaxation process it would become automatic. The concept of HypnoBirthing came from an English Obstetricial, Grantly Dick Read who back in the 1912-14 wanted to know why some women went into labour and gave birth with no fuss while others suffered excruciating pain. His research showed that the ones who trusted in the natural function of their body and relaxed would give birth with no fuss and they did. Mind you he was nearly thrown out of his profession because of his outrageous ideas. Are they so outrageous? I know they aren't. I've seen that they aren't. He wrote the book Childbirth Without Fear that was first published in 1944 and reading it today it is still totally relevant althought the old fashioned languaging makes me smile. The program is trained here in Australia by Peter Jackson, in Bowral NSW, who is himself a midwife and last week in his training he had 14 midwives amongst the participants! They had seen HypnoBirthing in practice and wanted to be able to use it to help women in labour. Even for women haven't gone through the program, the breathing and relaxation can help tremendously. The US site where it originated is www.hypnobirthing.com. Many stories up there of the successes. You have to ask why in China, Africa, India and other 3rd world countries, do mothers give birth so easily and without the excruciating pain? They trust in the natural process and they believe that it doesn't hurt and it doesn't. They are also part of a supporting community, something which is missing in our culture today with so many women focused on working rather than being at home and their mothers, aunties etc. who are out there working as well. Many young mothers have no one to turn to except their maternal health nurses. When I've attended a birth and wittness a woman giving birth gently and a midwife in tears because she hasn't wittnessed a natural birth for such a long time, I know that I'm on the right track. Mind you I have had the gruff midwives who tutt, tutt and try their bullying tactics but my couples stand their ground and often a midwife has stomped out of the room because she doesn't have the control
Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA
Hi Everyone, I remember seeing a tv program recently on heelpricks saying that the cards were kept in storage for 7 years. In this program the the police obtained the DNA from one child's heelprick to be used in the successful identification of the sexual abuser of the child who happened to be a member of the family. I can't remember how it was done. That seems to be another way that the information from heelpricks can be used. I wonder if parents are even vaguely aware? Do we need to be more aware, afterall, surely parents need to be informed about how else the heel prick test can be used before giving consent. Who knows how else the blood could be used especially if it were to become compulsory? kathy - Original Message - From: Julie Garratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 9:35 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA Hi all, My understanding is that the body of Jayden Leskey was identified using the DNA from his heel prick test. Apparently the police can have access to the information in exceptional cases. Makes you wonder about how else this information could be used in the future doesn't it! CHEERS, Julie Garratt (: . . -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA
The problem is that DNA can be collected from just about anything, and perhaps using the blood from the heel prick test is a quicker (cheaper) way. Do we know if they had to seek permission from his mother to use this method of collection? A girlfriend's daughter was one of those 'one in a million' that had an unactive thyroid condition, picked up by Guthries, to me its more important than a possible DNA source. Cheers Megan. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Julie Garratt Sent: Sunday, 26 October 2003 9:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA Hi all, My understanding is that the body of Jayden Leskey was identified using the DNA from his heel prick test. Apparently the police can have access to the information in exceptional cases. Makes you wonder about how else this information could be used in the future doesn't it! CHEERS, Julie Garratt (: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marilyn Kleidon Sent: Sunday, 26 October 2003 11:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA You know I've heard or read that somewhere to...maybe on this list!??? Does anyone know if it is true, don't want to start any urban legends. marilyn - Original Message - From: Christina Damien [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 3:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA A couple in an Antenatal class today said that they had read of plans that the hospitals will be keeping the heelprick DNA information for a government database of all newborn babies. Apparently the DNA info will be kept indefinitely. Has anyone heard anything about this? Christina -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold
I had an interesting experience with a young couple in labour ward the other week. They were private patients and were quite primed for the epidural etc (and had been just threatened with a c/s for PROM) and had already received one dose of pethidine before handover, to me. It was obviously early labour and was starting to pick up. Anyway as this young mum was starting to struggle througgh her pethidine haze, I gave them a little talk about welcoming the contractions and that oxytocin was the love hormone encouraging them to caress and dance and him to massage and soothe her pain. They went for it with only a little bit of encouragement from me from time to time. She still had the epidural but she had been under a time line from her private ob and she passed it and ended up with a vaginal birth: he thought it was his threat of the c/s, I think it was my encouragement of enjoyment. Reframing is what we need in a nutshell. marilyn - Original Message - From: Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 4:57 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold Hi Diane, It's great to see these principles being taught so well. They do work when the necessary diligence is applied and the principles are being validated by neuroscience (at last). All we humans are hypnotising ourselves all the time (or being hypnotised by mass media) and it is about time we learnt how to self talk (hypnotise) ourselves for outcomes we desire and work with our biological intelligence, rather than against it. Fear (adrenalin, cortisol in excess etc) is such a powerful disruptor of healthy/normal biological functioning. Increasing prefrontal cortex activity helps people feel safe and over ride amygdala hijacks. see http://edition.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/11/07/brain.fear/index.html and http://edition.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/10/09/ego.pain.ap/index.html for a quick summary. Brain research is fascinating, liberating and exciting. It is busy validating what adepts and mystics (and people like Grantley Dick Read) have told us for ages. Brain research is also validating the value of story telling in midwifery care, getting women together, enjoying food together kitchen table wisdom, defusing women's fears and providing the kind of environment that enables undisturbed birth. It takes 'soft' data and makes it 'hard' - isn't that a funny metaphor for information? especially when applied to women's birth processes ;-) And a point of clarity? Is it pain threshold or tolerance or reframing? It seems to me that all of us go ouch when stuck with a pin, self talk can help us change our perception and reaction therefore our experience of phenomena. Just philosophising and musing. Perception and attitude are everything in my mind. in solidarity (thanks Justine) Carolyn Hastie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Diane Gardner Sent: Sunday, 26 October 2003 10:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold Hi Cheryl I work with HypnoBirthing (a method that a woman uses to put herself into self hypnosis while she is in labour). I have been a part of many births with couples and I know that the mind definitely has control of the sensation the body will feel. Many of my mums feel only pressure and they are awake and in control of their birthing. I have not had one negative birth story since I started practicing 3 years ago even when medical intervention was needed. The relaxation and breathing still continues even if medical intevention is required, although that doesn't happen anywhere near as often. I did have one that didn't have as much success. It was a mum who had her own business at home and WORKED long hours right up until she went into labour. I had my doubts when she was in her classes that she would have all the necessary rest her body and baby needed and that she would practice so that the relaxation process it would become automatic. The concept of HypnoBirthing came from an English Obstetricial, Grantly Dick Read who back in the 1912-14 wanted to know why some women went into labour and gave birth with no fuss while others suffered excruciating pain. His research showed that the ones who trusted in the natural function of their body and relaxed would give birth with no fuss and they did. Mind you he was nearly thrown out of his profession because of his outrageous ideas. Are they so outrageous? I know they aren't. I've seen that they aren't. He wrote the book Childbirth Without Fear that was first published in 1944 and reading it today it is still totally relevant althought the old fashioned languaging makes me smile. The program is trained here in Australia by Peter Jackson, in Bowral NSW, who is himself a midwife and last week in his training he had 14 midwives amongst the participants! They had seen HypnoBirthing in practice and wanted
Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA
I absolutely agree, Megan, but it would be nice to know and I do think parents should be informed. I am actually quite happy for that kind if info to be kept about me and my kids, actually had dental records etc(blood) kept on file for (horrible as it may sound) ID purposes. But i guess others aren't and they have rights too. marilyn - Original Message - From: Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 7:45 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA The problem is that DNA can be collected from just about anything, and perhaps using the blood from the heel prick test is a quicker (cheaper) way. Do we know if they had to seek permission from his mother to use this method of collection? A girlfriend's daughter was one of those 'one in a million' that had an unactive thyroid condition, picked up by Guthries, to me its more important than a possible DNA source. Cheers Megan. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Julie Garratt Sent: Sunday, 26 October 2003 9:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA Hi all, My understanding is that the body of Jayden Leskey was identified using the DNA from his heel prick test. Apparently the police can have access to the information in exceptional cases. Makes you wonder about how else this information could be used in the future doesn't it! CHEERS, Julie Garratt (: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marilyn Kleidon Sent: Sunday, 26 October 2003 11:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA You know I've heard or read that somewhere to...maybe on this list!??? Does anyone know if it is true, don't want to start any urban legends. marilyn - Original Message - From: Christina Damien [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 3:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA A couple in an Antenatal class today said that they had read of plans that the hospitals will be keeping the heelprick DNA information for a government database of all newborn babies. Apparently the DNA info will be kept indefinitely. Has anyone heard anything about this? Christina -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
