Re: [ozmidwifery] Serena Esther arrived
Congratulations Philippa, i am so glad you got the birth you wanted. well done! mike and Lindsay Kennedy who are loving our new jobs in melbourne On 2/4/07, Philippa Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I thought you would all like to know that Serena Esther Scott was born gently and beautifully into the water at home on 1/02/2007. She was a lovely 9pnd 7oz or 4280grams (my biggest by far). It was a perfect birth for us with no tears or bleeds or anything else to necessitate the need for assistance. As you can imagine I am on a high. Alana Brianna watched with awe and excitement and are talking about it lot. It was so wonderful to have them there. Trevor is finally convinced home water birth is the way to go, he was terrific. All my women folk where as amazing as I knew they would be I am so blessed to have friends such as these. The experience would not have been the same with out them. Cheers Philippa Scott Birth Buddies - Doula Assisting women and their families in the preparation towards childbirth and labour. President of Friends of the Birth Centre Townsville -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown
Re: [ozmidwifery] Victorian Election and rural Obstetrics
Poor overworked obstetricians we should give them a raise. What the article doesn't say is that all the public ones have registrars and junior doctors to do most of their work and that midwives provide more than 97% of care for the women (including private patients) and most of the births. Perhaps if obstetricians were only seeing the women who really needed to see them (ie the truly high risk ones) and left midwives to get on with the other 95% there wouldn't be a shortage of obstetricians by rather a surplus. Of course research shows time and time again that a midwifery model of care with referral for high risk is the safest method for women and their babies and allows women to have their babies without traveling. Gee I guess if they don't have to travel to another city to have their babies there might not be roadside deaths. On 11/2/06, Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All The following story is the same old spin from the Obs. I plan to engage the Herald_sun to see if we can get some real news and solutions into print. Can all you Victorians on list write in with Midwives are the answer type letters! Go to the Herald Sun website www.news.com.au/heraldsun You will find a 'send a letter' choice under the opinion button on the sites main page. JC DOCTORS say it is only a matter of time before mothers and babies die by the roadside because of a critical lack of specialist obstetrics care in rural Victoria. Only 37 specialist obstetricians and gynaecologists practise outside Melbourne. Obstetrics services have disappeared from 34 towns since 1997. Wodonga senior obstetrician Pieter Mourik said the lack of maternity centres and specialist obstetricians in rural Victoria would inevitably lead to roadside deaths. It is not a case of if a woman and a baby is going to die, it is a case of when. It will happen, he said. Almost 16,000 babies were born in country Victoria last year -- an average of 342 for each of the bush's overworked specialists. In Melbourne there are 189 obstetricians and gynaecologists -- an average of one for every 246 of the 46,500 babies born in Melbourne last year. Mothers in the state's far east and northwest are hardest hit, with huge distances between specialists, forcing some pregnant women to endure up to four hours' travel to access care. Their plight has been made worse by a shortage of rural-based anaesthetists, which has left some mothers without access to epidural pain relief or an emergency caesarean without a risky mid-birth ambulance transfer. Horsham obstetrician and gynaecologist Dr David Morris said the shortage of rural specialists was at crisis point. He said the lives of women and their unborn children were put in danger by trips of up to three hours to reach his practice. It can be perilous for some women (with difficult pregnancies), he said. They have a choice of staying in hospital for two or three weeks before delivery, at great personal cost, or taking the risk the hospital will be too far away if they need it. The doctors warned the situation was about to worsen because many of the remaining rural-based obstetricians are approaching or already past retirement age. Of the remaining specialists, 24 are 50 or older, with eight over 60. Just three are under 30 and only two are women. Rural Doctors Association president Dr Mike Moynahan said further closures of country obstetric services seemed unavoidable, with about 80 per cent of the 167 rural GPs qualified to deliver babies also due for retirement in the next five to 10 years. Health Minister Bronwyn Pike said a national shortage of doctors was to blame for the decline in rural obstetrics. It's not a funding issue, a spokesman said. There haven't been enough doctors trained in recent years and lack of doctors leads to lack of obstetricians and anaesthetists coming through the system. Ms Pike said $4.4 million was being spent to recruit doctors from overseas and $4 million to promote midwife-led services at rural hospitals. Opposition health spokeswoman Helen Shardey said it was too little too late. Obstetric services have already closed down right across Victoria, she said. If you're looking to provide more specialists throughout Victoria you don't wait seven years, allow services to close and then announce you're going to spend $4 million bringing doctors from overseas. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nzMy Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_PhotographersNew Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.comLindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown
Re: [ozmidwifery] risks for birth...
Mayby the norm should be Midwives not obstetricians as it is in many countries.rgds mikeOn 10/19/06, Honey Acharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe we should start hiring Vets rather than Obstetricians as seems to be the norm in our culture right now ;) LOL at the thougth of telling them that you will be hiring your vet as your caregiver when booking in at the hospital. - Original Message - From: Tania Smallwood To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 7:11 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] risks for birth... My kids are watching the ABC pet show tonight…Question – "so, what's the greatest risk when your pet is giving birth?" Straight from the spunky vet's mouth…"THE THING THAT PUTS YOUR PET AT THE GREATEST RISK IS THAT PEOPLE TRY AND INTERFERE TOO MUCH" Sigh…and we can't see that fantastic wood for those dastardly trees… Tania x --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.5/483 - Release Date: 18/10/2006 -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nzMy Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_PhotographersNew Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.comLindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown
Re: [ozmidwifery] Trivial ? For hosp midwives
the birth reg papers can and do get reissued in qldOn 10/20/06, meg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Lisa,At our hospital the parents fill the birth reg papers out. The midwife fills in the centrelink declaration and the ward clerk puts together a pack forthe parents but they need to fill it in.Regards,Meg.- Original Message -From: LJG [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Friday, October 20, 2006 8:42 AMSubject: [ozmidwifery] Trivial ? For hosp midwives Hi all - am wanting toask a silly question - when do you give out the birth registration forms and who fills them in? i.e. is this done by m/wsor ward clerks?? Thanks Lisa Feel free to pm me -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. __ NOD32 1.1816 (20061019) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com --This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nzMy Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.comLindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.comLife is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown
Re: [ozmidwifery] Trivial ? For hosp midwives
I was at a birth recently and after she had the baby the mother asked me about the paperwork and whether she could get a registration reissued. It turned out that she had never registered the previous child (now 4 years old) and had lost the papers! We were able to reissue the registration papers after we verified the birth in the register. I think she would have a fine to pay tho. LindsayOn 10/20/06, Mike Lindsay Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the birth reg papers can and do get reissued in qldOn 10/20/06, meg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Lisa,At our hospital the parents fill the birth reg papers out. The midwife fills in the centrelink declaration and the ward clerk puts together a pack forthe parents but they need to fill it in.Regards,Meg.- Original Message -From: LJG [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Friday, October 20, 2006 8:42 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Trivial ? For hosp midwives Hi all - am wanting toask a silly question - when do you give out the birth registration forms and who fills them in? i.e. is this done by m/wsor ward clerks?? Thanks Lisa Feel free to pm me -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. __ NOD32 1.1816 (20061019) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com --This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.comLindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.comLife is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nzMy Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_PhotographersNew Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.comLindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown
Re: [ozmidwifery] Breastfeeding
I would assume that a hands off approach to assisting this woman with breastfeeding would be of benefit. What techniques do others use in the early postnatal period to assist with attachment, positioning etc without manhandling? (excuse the pun) What methods Can be used antenatally to prepare her. Spending time with another breastfeeding woman springs to mind. rgds mikeOn 10/12/06, Barbara Glare Chris Bright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I wonder if some talking through, some info and the importance of skin to skin contact after birth could help here. This may be related to previous sexual abuse, but then again, maybe not. Many survivors of sexual abuse find that breastfeeding can be extremely healing, and a way of reclaiming back their bodies. Men handling my breasts doesn't make me feel ill as such, but I hate the sensation. It gives me the fingernails scraped on the chalkboard feeling. In some cultures (apparently) men are considered imature and unmanly if they want to play with breasts. On theother hand, I have breastfed 4 children beautifully for over 13 years. They can suck, knead and cuddle to their heart's content - I love it! (though nipple twiddling is rather annoying) So there may be many reasons for not liking your breasts being touched and it may help to know other women feel the same and still go on to breastfeed. Barb - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Breastfeeding I've seen this before and it was indeed related to sexual abuse. Fortunately the woman involved was keen that her issues didn't end up impacting negatively on the life of her baby so she went for counselling and was able to work through her stuff enough to bf.How sad that our abusers are able to reach through us to our children like this. J - Original Message - From: Andrea Bilcliff To: Ozmidwifery Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Breastfeeding I'm posting this on behalf of a birth attendant who has contacted me. She will be supporting a womansoon who has for want of a better term, 'breast issues'. The woman really wants to breastfeed but thethought of itmakes her feel ill. She hates it when her partner touches her breasts. The birth attendant is not sure whether this is related toprevious sexual abuse or not. I've never come across this situation before and wondered if others had experience of this and what helped the women? Thanks, Andrea Bilcliff -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nzMy Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_PhotographersNew Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.comLindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown
Re: [ozmidwifery] New Inventors birth seat
I understand that the back comes off so that the 'dad' (partner, support person) can cradle the woman the same way as a traditional birth chair.On 10/7/06, Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi,Only problems with this birth chair arethat it eliminates the needfor a support person behind the woman (poor dad misses out), and alsofixes the woman in a static position. Not easy for her to move about, wriggle, rock back and forth etc if she wants to. Convenient for theaccoucher as the women is in a still positionThis birth stool has been available for some time. Without the backrest, however (which is new) the woman tends to tilt her pelvis forward, and can easily end up in an almost horizontal position,because the seat on the stool slopes backwards.The backrest putsthe woman's pelvis into a forward tilt position, which is a morenatural drive angle, thus overcoming a design problem (as I see it) with the basic stool.With traditional birth stools, the father usually sits behind thewoman and can help her into a standing position between contractions,to assist with maintaining circulation, which is important for avoiding perineal oedema. It also gives him close contact with herand an important role in the whole process. I can't imagine a womangetting up and down easily from this particular birth stool with itsbackrest in place. The invention didn't win the award on the night.AndreaAt 10:53 AM 7/10/2006, you wrote:Did anyone else manage to catch this on Wednesday night - I onlymanaged to get the info from their website after the event, but its looks wonderful!!!http://www.abc.net.au/newinventors/txt/s1754147.htm http://www.abc.net.au/newinventors/txt/s1754147.htm(you can play the video too)What a fanastic invention - apparently quite 'cheap' too.. Not sureif she won the nights award - but cant wait for the day when these are standards in hospitals and universities for mid training...Kristin-- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit tosubscribe or unsubscribe.-- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.-- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nzMy Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.comLindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.comLife is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown
Re: [ozmidwifery] DO SOMETHING!
I agree with the do something philosophy. The government in NZ didn't wake up one day and decide oh i think I will change the entire obstetric system. Midwives and women (and men ;) created the climate for change and the government eventually got the message. The midwives in this unit could: 1 Refuse to train/supervise RN's in this role unless they are completing a recognised mid program. Remembering that they not the hospital accepts responsibility for any role they delegate to an RN. 2 Refuse to do overtime/extra shifts 3 Contact nursing/midwifery/union organisations to support them 4 Use the networking resources of this group to provide support, evidence and submissions It would cost this hospital about $10,000 over and above wages to fully sponsor an RN to become a qualified midwife. When compared to recruitment costs this is very reasonable and the hospital gets a multiskilled professional as a bargain price. rgds mikeOn 10/2/06, Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Many of us seem to think that it is a retrograde step, but telling each other stories will not change things. What can we do to put forward our views to the government? I guess we could rely on "someone else" to "do something" but WE really need to write to our Federal Health Minister, our local fed Politician, go and see them, etc. If everyone on this list wrote to Minister Tony Abbott, he would have to be a little bit impressed and may actually get more info before continuing on his rigid way. LETS DO IT. MM From: owner- ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of brendamanning Sent: Monday, 2 October 2006 8:13 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step Going back to the maternity nurse or Gen/ Obstetric nurse workingin Midwifery ishow NZ worked in the 70's 80's. It was unsatisfactory then would be the same now, despite the fact the we did 6 months obsin our general training we weren't midwives it showed. I worked in mid whilst attending homebirths, worked in birth suite, postnatal, taught pre-natal classesspent 3 yearsin charge of SCN as a RGON in the early 80's when I went to train as a midwife justlike Di MI too found it a revelation. It's a retrograde step undermines all the recognition of your specialised professionyou Australian midwives have fought so hard for. It's just another path on: follow the American leader. With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: D. Morgan To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: I agree Michelle, I too worked in a rural area prior to completing my Mid many years ago and can still remember the revelations I felt while learning Midwifery.As anRN non Midwife, I was quite ignorant of what a true Midwife's role involved. It was scarey stuff. Cheers Di M -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nzMy Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_PhotographersNew Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.comLindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown
Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step
Good point, I guess the problem is there is only one route to nursing but two to Mid at the moment. When we had a mix of hospital trained and Uni trained nurses the issues were the same. It took a long t6ime to accept Uni trained nurses which is ofcourse the norm now. Mid will be the same, eventually ;) On 10/5/06, Christine Holliday [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand why people refer to the Bachelor of Midwifery as a direct entry course but I wish we could learn to stop doing this. If we continue it still means we are measuring midwifery against nursing or still referring to nursing, we never see Registered Nurses referred to as direct entry nurses. If you are having difficulty explaining direct entry midwifery to managers etc if you refer to RN's as direct entry nurses they do seem to get a better grasp on this. I don't intend this to sound critical just to try and cause change. Christine -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mike Lindsay Kennedy Sent: 05 October 2006 07:49 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Backward step I would like to reply to this one as a just about to finish Mid student with 6 years as an RN. There are two ways to become a midwife in Au, a one year (18 months) upgrade or a 3 year direct entry course. The upgrade course for RN's relies on the fact that you have some nursing experience WHY? From where I am now, I absolutely agree that an RN cannot do the full job of a midwife without formalised midwifery training. Before I began my course, I too thought that midwifery was really just another nursing specialisation like an ICU nurse or a Psyc Nurse. There are a lot of skills and practices that are common to both professions especially as most of us work in a hospital setting. Midwifery requires advanced people skills, time management skills and assessment skills as well as learning to work within the hospital system and learning to work with other health care professionals in an often autonomous role. Even after 3 years of training RN's need a new grad year to develop the basics of these skills and probably a further 2 or 3 years to become proficient. Obviously maturity, background and life experience all play a part in this transition. I have met a couple of new grad RN's who have gone straight into 1 year mid training and they appear to find it difficult as the upgrade program appears to expect a level of knowledge/experience not yet developed in a new grad RN. Not to say that experienced RN's find it a breeze, its not. It's hard work and can be bloody stressful ;) Obviously this is a generalisation and once again the maturity, background and life experience of the individual will apply. In NZ RN's were able to upgrade in a similar way. However those RN's felt that they were not receiving as adequate training as the direct entry Midwives. So now RN's complete the same course as the direct entry mids with a credit for a portion of the course based on their qualification/experiance. So that is why I feel as an RN almost midwife that RN's should have at least one year post grad experience prior to training. The better way would be to do the 3 year direct entry course if you want to be a midwife and not an RN as well. Some more thoughts on the original post. It feels like the proposal to train RN's to work in mid is not based on a concern for the patients or the RN's but a way of staffing the ward cheaply. They could offcourse pay for these RN's to do the Mid training which is available, as it is appropriate for mid students who happen to be RN's to work on the ward under midwife supervision. Assuming the RN's are willing to complete the appropriate assignment work etc. If they aren't they are they really the right ppl to be working on maternity in the first place. Most RN's would agree that it would be inappropriate to replace RN's with AIN's and train them to look after patients, take obs, change dressings, mobilise patents etc. Then have an RN be held responsible should the AIN make a mistake or fail to recognise a patient who had deteriorated or needed reviewing. That is the legal situation in Queensland if an RN works in a maternity unit. They work under the supervision of the midwife, so the midwife is the one held responsible for the practice of the RN should there be a problem. Remember an American obstetrics nurse is just that, not a midwife (yes America has midwives too). They really are nurses as Doctors perform most of the advanced birthing roles (like actually delivering the baby etc) that midwives do here. Rgds Mike On 10/2/06, Rene and Tiffany [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It has been fantastic reading all the responses to the nurse/midwife question. As a nurse about to begin midwifery training, I look forward to learning and developing the specialist skills you wonderful women have described! My original response stemmed from the fact
Re: [ozmidwifery] RE:
But the better option would be to facilitate them to become midwives rather than stick a bandaid on the problem which is a shortage of midwives. On 9/28/06, Ken Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some of the best people I have worked with have been div2's. Their knowledge and understanding put some of the 'midwives' to shame. Just how much nursing care does a newborn need? Many LC's are not midwives, as are childbirth educators. Maybe we should be assisting these people to be woman wise, and not judge them on qualifications. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ganesha RosatSent: Thursday, 28 September 2006 8:33 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Hi all u wonderful women! Just a quick posting in line with the current debate about maternity services within country areas and who provides services. The hospital I am currently working in has decided to address our midwife shortage but training division two nurses to work in the maternity department. These nurses have 3 days of theory, one day of orientation in óbstetric' and five days of clinical experience. On completion of their modules these girls will be able to: Assist in the provision of antenatal nursing care to the client Assist in the provision of nursing care to the healthy newborn baby Discuss the establishment and maintenance of breastfeeding Assist in the evaluation of key stage of growth and development of the baby Assist in the provision of postnatal nursing care to the woman This again indicates to me the lack of understanding of the needs of women (not clients). Instead of the hospital supporting midwives and creating a working environment that encourages new midwives to come to the area, they find quick fixes that only further add to the fragmentation of care. Anyway what do u all think? And is this happening anywhere else? Cheers Ganesha -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nzMy Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_PhotographersNew Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.comLindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after more than one c-sec in the perinatal data?
Pretty simple for QLD as a women is not offered a Vbac if she has had more than 1 C/S even if she has had a successful vaginal birth between the c/s's. Don't know about the private system but they appear do more c/s and less vbac than the public system so probably less than no chance with them. On 9/16/06, Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, is there some way in which the perinatal data for each state records vb after multiple c-secs in the hospy system? I wonder if it's too statistically insignificant or is there a part of the data I haven't noticed. I know they're different in each state as well. How about hospy's own data? Are people recording how many c-secs women have before a vb? We really need MIPPs to be recording HBACs so we can contrast that with the truly appalling national average. I've only seen blanketVBAC figures, not how many surgeries prior. Anyone know? J For home birth information go to:Joyous Birth Australian home birth network and forums.http://www.joyousbirth.info/Or email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nzMy Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_PhotographersNew Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.comLindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown
Re: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal examinations
Hi would also like your photoLinzOn 8/30/06, Jo Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Two words:PURPLE LINEI have a great photo of mine (thanks for pointing it out, Mary!) :)JoOn 30/08/2006, at 9:31 PM, Sally @ home wrote: Just to add to this... There was an extremely heated discussion at a meeting with docs and midwives where I work about how doing a VE is the only way to ascertain progress in the normal labour of uncompromised healthy women. The midwives now have to come up with evidence showing that doing a VE within 1- 4 hours of admission to hospital (then 4-6 hourly thereafter) is not necessary as we are able to assess progress in different ways (all of which have been poo-pooed by the medicos)...so...am needing the help of all you wonderfully wise women out there. Thanks in advance. Sally - Original Message - From: Sally @ home [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:30 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal examinations Was wondering what guidelines others worked with regarding when to do vaginal examinations...specifically in the hospital setting. And what evidence they base their practice on. Thanks in advance. Sally -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.0.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: 25/08/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.-- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nzMy Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_PhotographersNew Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.comLindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.comLife is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown
Re: [ozmidwifery] Ezzo alert
ok whats an Ezzo ;)mikeOn 8/28/06, Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those nasty Ezzos are moving into birth as well! I will hardly be able to bear to read this one after the trash of their others. : ( J http://www.gfi.org.au/resources/on%20becoming.html Quote: Medical research continually develops better ways to manage labour and delivery for healthy outcomes. With all of the choices, theories, and plethora of ideas available today, it's a challenge for expectant parents to know where to turn for wise counsel. Where will you turn for help? On Becoming Birthwise has reliable answers for you. As an outgrowth of a childbirth course created in 1989 by a group of health-care providers knowledgeable and skilled in labour and delivery, (and now with over seventy years of collective hospital and clinical experience behind them), this resource is a must-read for every expectant parent. Our authors explore the medical options available from high-tech intervention to natural childbirth. You will grow in your understanding and appreciation of the physical and emotional transitions taking place during pregnancy and at each stage of labour. Similar to the other seven books in our series, On Becoming Birthwise is informative, practical, and easily understood. Perhaps most importantly, this book is written from the hearts of moms who are also medical professionals. We are pleased to add this book to our parenting series. We have read many glowing post-delivery reports, we have listened to mums and dads speak with confidence and satisfaction of their birthing experience, and we know this resource will serve to encourage you through the miraculous process of bringing forth a new life. For home birth information go to:Joyous Birth Australian home birth network and forums.http://www.joyousbirth.info/Or email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nzMy Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_PhotographersNew Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.comLindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown
Re: [ozmidwifery] midiwfe in Vic
Casey hospital in Berwick appears to be a low risk low intervention hospital.On 8/22/06, Belinda Maier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I have a client in midwifery group practice who would like to birth in Melb with her family, she is over 34 weeks so i am assuming she wont getinto birth centers?? She is close to Monash, is there anyone who couldtalk to her regarding her options there??Belinda SA--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.-- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nzMy Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_PhotographersNew Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.comLindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.comLife is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown
Re: [ozmidwifery] consent to formula feed?
Interesting question about the consenting rights of the father. He seems to have no rights. The baby is baby of the mother. What is the fathers legal position? Any other time the parents have equal rights and one or other can sign. rgds mikeOn 6/4/06, Lynne Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ditto Di- Original Message -From: diane [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 5:58 PMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] consent to formula feed? Written info on consent form signed by mother only in our area. Di - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 1:29 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] consent to formula feed? Hi, just wondering what the policies are concerning consent to give formula to a baby (any baby). is the consent to be written or verbal, and is it gained from either parents or just the mother? sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.-- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_PhotographersNew Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.comLife is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown
Re: [ozmidwifery] SMH: Midwife-led births seen as safe and cheap
The ministers reply just seems like dragging the chain to me. There is loads of Australian and International research that proves the safety and efficiency of midwifery led care already, including both low and high risk women. Not to mention the fact that it already works in other countries. So why do we need 10 years (Dr Pesce) to prove that a system that already works in other western countries will work here. Is Australia really that slow It amazes me how positive articles can be given a neatly hidden negative slant. rgds mike On 5/10/06, Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Midwife-led births seen as safe and cheap By Julie Robotham Medical Editor May 10, 2006 BIRTHS supervised only by midwives are safe and popular and can cut health system costs by up to half, according to the first formal audit of two NSW pilot programs for healthy women at low risk of complications. The surveys raise the stakes in the escalating war between doctors and the state health system over midwives' increasing involvement in the management of births. Doctors have consistently opposed midwife-only birth centres, saying they put mothers and babies at risk. Among the first 245 women booked at a midwife-only centre at Ryde Hospital, which does not have an on-site doctor, 84 per cent went spontaneously into labour and had a normal vaginal birth. One-third of the women who joined the program in the 14 months to October were transferred to larger hospitals either during pregnancy or labour, when the midwives detected medical difficulties that meant they needed more complex care. But of the 179 women who gave birth at Ryde, two-thirds did not have any pain-relieving drugs. All the babies were born healthy. The service was also 20 to 50 per cent cheaper per delivery than standard public hospital care, according to the analysis by Northern Sydney Central Coast Health. It suggests most of the savings were attributable to midwives' increased productivity. Midwives employed in the program take responsibility for individual women and manage their own workload. In the Ryde program, one midwife is employed for every 33 women, versus an average of one to 23 under normal public hospital rostering. A report into the first seven months of a similar unit at Belmont, near Newcastle, found nearly half the women had to be transferred to John Hunter Hospital, but many of these needed antibiotics, which the Belmont midwives will be able to administer in future. The women used less pain relief compared with the state average, and their babies were more likely to be breastfed. Sally Tracy, who established the Ryde service and is now a senior research fellow in the University of NSW's School of Women's and Children's Health, said a high proportion of the mothers came from non-English speaking backgrounds and appreciated the relationship with an individual midwife during their pregnancy. This level of support for people who would otherwise be lost within the system has quite far-reaching community effects, Professor Tracy said. But Andrew Pesce, an obstetrician and a federal councillor of the Australian Medical Association, said the number of births so far at the units was too small to reveal any shortcomings. We have one full-term unexpected foetal death in 2000 deliveries, Dr Pesce said. If they can keep this up for 10 years then that's good. It's too early to make any comment about the relative safety [of midwife-only units and standard maternity hospitals]. Intuitively I'm worried about that … I don't see the rationale when there are tertiary referral centres [nearby] that can do everything. The NSW Minister for Health, John Hatzistergos, said the reports represented, an encouraging start, to the wider availability of midwife-led births. The two models are still relatively small … there'll be ongoing evaluation, but we're pleased with the outcomes. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery Strengths
How about the fact that midwives provide more that 90% of the woman's care regardless of whether they are in the private or public system. That most babies are actually delivered by midwives and that they mostly provide one on one care in the public system. Could explore the nursing theory that Patients see the care provided by all nurses as a continuum of nursing care, not as a series of individual nursing events (Christensen, Episodic continuity - try a search google on Christensen +episodic continuity +midwifery). How does this apply to midwifery? Does it apply at all? How does this apply to the ideal of 1 on 1 midwifery care throughout the pregnancy continuum. Can we provide good care outside this model. When women don't understand what the doctor said or why they want to do something they ask the midwife to explain. Midwives tend to give information in a way women understand and are often better at presenting all the risks, benefits and options to women. Sometimes this creates a challenge for the midwife who has to work within the system yet must be the womans advocate. rgds mike On 5/5/06, Great Birth Men at Birth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'da Denise, Andrew Bisits is an obstetrician. He wrote the afterword of my book Having a Great Birth in Australia which is available from Birth International. www.birthinternational.com Cheers, David On 05/05/2006, at 5:52 PM, denise thomson wrote: Hi there, Is Andrew Bissits a book or a journal article? Denise Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Renee I will give a strength from the consumer perspective! The power of the relationship between a woman and a midwife. When it works there is nothing a woman cannot do. The impact of that trust and that belief in 'being with woman' has the capacity to transform lives. Read Andrew Bissits' afterward in Having a Great Birth in Australia He comments on the trust and the relationship women have with midwives providing 1-2-1 care. Something the vast majority of other carers (and midwives in fragmented models) cannot achieve. Gee I wish I was writing this essay (shame I don't want to be a MW!) I would approach the core of strength from the perspective of when midwives actually do as the word means be 'with woman' So to be with her one should know her, and put her as central to the process. To do this she comes first and Hospital protocols after and Dr's timeframes after etc. I guess the real strength is when practice is optimal. Kind regards Justine Caines Hi all. I am a 1st year B.Mid student writing the obligatory essay on Midwifery in Australia. No easy feat really and I need to outline some strengths and weaknesses. Well there is plenty out there about what is wrong with Midwifery Services and what the threats are (New Idea anyone?) but not a lot talking about what is right with it, besides the inherent fact that it works!! So I thought I'd do a little bit of a survey and ask you all what you think are the strengths. What do you all see as being great about being a Midwife in Australia?? Your feedback would be most appreciated. Renee 24 FIFA World Cup tickets to be won with Yahoo! Mail. Learn more -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] article FYI
Interesting that doctors would say they have risks ? On 5/5/06, leanne wynne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Calif. law would ban Cruise ultrasound copycats Bill restricting home setups like star's moves on to state Senate SACRAMENTO, Calif. - The California Assembly has voted to restrict the use of ultrasound machines for personal use, approving a bill that would allow them to be sold only to licensed professionals. Democratic Assemblyman Ted Lieu introduced the bill after Mission: Impossible III star Tom Cruise bought an ultrasound machine to see images of his unborn child. The actor's fiancee, Katie Holmes, gave birth to the couple's daughter, Suri, last month in Los Angeles. Doctors and technologists typically receive years of training to perform ultrasound exams, which help obstetricians check a baby's health. Cruise was criticized by doctors who said improperly using the devices can harm a fetus. Lieu said his bill was intended to prohibit copycats from using the devices at home. An ultrasound machine listed on the online auction site eBay was selling for $5,500 Wednesday. What we don't want is someone who unintentionally damages the fetus, Lieu said Thursday on the Assembly floor. If someone sees Tom Cruise buy one, they think this is the thing to do, added Lieu. There's really no medical reason for an untrained person to use this machine. The actor's publicist, Paul Bloch, did not return phone messages seeking comment. Cruise has been promoting his new film, which opens in theaters Friday. Ban on unlicensed use The chamber voted 55-7 to pass the bill and send it to the Senate. The bill prohibits a manufacturer or person from selling, leasing or distributing an ultrasound machine to any person other than a licensed practitioner. Some Republican lawmakers questioned whether the bill would prohibit the use of ultrasound devices by private companies that provide keepsake photos for parents-to-be. Lieu said it would not, as long as the person operating the machine was licensed under a certain section of the state's Business and Professions Code. Laboratory tests have shown that certain diagnostic levels can affect human tissue, according to the Food and Drug Administration. The agency has determined that keepsake fetal videos and personal snapshots are an unapproved use of a medical device. The machine is also used by doctors on a high-frequency setting to get a better image of an adult's kidneys, pelvis, uterus and other internal organs. There are many settings you would only use on adults and not on a fetus, said Dr. Miyuki Murphy, director of ultrasound at Radiological Associates of Sacramento. Obviously, somebody enamored with their own child would want to use it all the time, said Murphy, identified by the California Medical Association as an expert on the topic. You might push that button because the pictures are prettier. Critics of the bill said lawmakers should leave such decisions to health professionals. We don't have the expertise to dispense medical advice, said Assembly woman Audra Strickland, the mother of a 6-month-old daughter. (c) 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Leanne Wynne Midwife in charge of Women's Business Mildura Aboriginal Health Service Mob 0418 371862 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery Strengths
Addit The ACMI site has some info that might help and send out a email newsletter. rgds mike On 5/5/06, Mike Lindsay Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about the fact that midwives provide more that 90% of the woman's care regardless of whether they are in the private or public system. That most babies are actually delivered by midwives and that they mostly provide one on one care in the public system. Could explore the nursing theory that Patients see the care provided by all nurses as a continuum of nursing care, not as a series of individual nursing events (Christensen, Episodic continuity - try a search google on Christensen +episodic continuity +midwifery). How does this apply to midwifery? Does it apply at all? How does this apply to the ideal of 1 on 1 midwifery care throughout the pregnancy continuum. Can we provide good care outside this model. When women don't understand what the doctor said or why they want to do something they ask the midwife to explain. Midwives tend to give information in a way women understand and are often better at presenting all the risks, benefits and options to women. Sometimes this creates a challenge for the midwife who has to work within the system yet must be the womans advocate. rgds mike On 5/5/06, Great Birth Men at Birth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'da Denise, Andrew Bisits is an obstetrician. He wrote the afterword of my book Having a Great Birth in Australia which is available from Birth International. www.birthinternational.com Cheers, David On 05/05/2006, at 5:52 PM, denise thomson wrote: Hi there, Is Andrew Bissits a book or a journal article? Denise Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Renee I will give a strength from the consumer perspective! The power of the relationship between a woman and a midwife. When it works there is nothing a woman cannot do. The impact of that trust and that belief in 'being with woman' has the capacity to transform lives. Read Andrew Bissits' afterward in Having a Great Birth in Australia He comments on the trust and the relationship women have with midwives providing 1-2-1 care. Something the vast majority of other carers (and midwives in fragmented models) cannot achieve. Gee I wish I was writing this essay (shame I don't want to be a MW!) I would approach the core of strength from the perspective of when midwives actually do as the word means be 'with woman' So to be with her one should know her, and put her as central to the process. To do this she comes first and Hospital protocols after and Dr's timeframes after etc. I guess the real strength is when practice is optimal. Kind regards Justine Caines Hi all. I am a 1st year B.Mid student writing the obligatory essay on Midwifery in Australia. No easy feat really and I need to outline some strengths and weaknesses. Well there is plenty out there about what is wrong with Midwifery Services and what the threats are (New Idea anyone?) but not a lot talking about what is right with it, besides the inherent fact that it works!! So I thought I'd do a little bit of a survey and ask you all what you think are the strengths. What do you all see as being great about being a Midwife in Australia?? Your feedback would be most appreciated. Renee 24 FIFA World Cup tickets to be won with Yahoo! Mail. Learn more -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Article FYI new vaccination
I have moms who brestfeed while their babies are being vacinated, facilitating bonding and very effectivly distracting the babies. I have to ask the question. How does getting one of the diseases we vacinate against contribute to bonding and breastfeeding. rgds mike On 4/25/06, Megan Larry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this really the best thing we could be doing for our precious little babies when they are first born? This is more than a pro/anti vaccination debate. Anything that interferes with early bonding, breatfeeding etc has to be questioned. Research could save newborns From: http://www.dailytelegraph.news.com.au/ By Clare Masters April 25, 2006 NEWBORN babies could soon be vaccinated at birth against bacterial diseases after scientists discovered how to boost a baby's immune system, guarding them against possible fatal infections. Dr John Smythe, a neo-natologist at the Royal Hospital for Women at Randwick, Sydney, yesterday hailed the finding, which would close the current two-month window before a baby is immunised against the infections. Babies are already immunised against hepatitis B at birth and given a vitamin K shot but the new findings will allow newborns to be protected against a host of other infections. It's exciting because their bodies don't take up immunisations for tetanus, as an example, at that age, he said. Most adults and children can repel contagious bugs with a group of receptors called TLRs that sit on the surface of white-blood cells – the body's defence system. These recognise bacteria and viruses and trigger immune cells to attack them. But newborns' immune systems have not developed this network, making them vulnerable to conditions like tetanus, diphtheria and whooping cough. By studying white blood cells from the newborns' cord blood, scientists from the Children's Hospital Boston found a way to boost a particular TLR and strengthen the infant's immune system. The researchers believe their findings could be used for a vaccination given at birth, closing off the current two-month window. From a global health perspective, if you can give a vaccine at birth, a much higher percentage of the population can be covered, researcher Ofer Levy said. He said this particular vaccination could also be given to babies as treatment for infections or as a preventive measure against a disease or bio-terrorist threat. Dr Smythe said newborns, particularly premature babies, were vulnerable to bacteria and viruses. Their immune system isn't as efficient when they encounter an infection, he told The Daily Telegraph. There isn't a huge amount at the moment that we can do. The period before they are vaccinated is a vulnerable one and this is quite a breakthrough. He said a newborn's entire system was immature and unable to cope with some bugs such as meningitis and whooping cough. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] yep send on your caseload refs please
Absolutly agree. So how do we get there? Do nothing or set up programs that move us as a profession towards the ideal? rgds mike On 4/19/06, Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Debbie It may be useful to think about women having choice and that 1-2-1 care is recognised as best practice so perhaps what 'suits Orange' should be of lesser concern! Sorry but I am a little over what suits practitioners and organisations. Women deserve to share their most intimate moment with someone they know and hopefully trust. And we simply cannot gauge what 'suits' women until we offer a full compliment of CHOICE. In solidarity Justine Caines PS: The National Maternity Action Plan available on the Maternity Coalition Website should be useful www.maternitycoalition.org.au -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] article FYI
Interesting. Can't think = can't feel pain. Someone should tell that to the lower orders of living beins. They obviously can't feel pain as they havn't developed conscious understanding of pain On 4/19/06, leanne wynne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fetuses Called Impervious to Sensation of Pain By Neil Osterweil, MedPage Today Staff Writer Reviewed by Rubeen K. Israni, M.D., Fellow, Renal-Electrolyte and Hypertension Division, University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine April 14, 2006 Explain to interested patients that the author asserts that fetal neural circuitry determining pain perception is not fully developed until about 26 weeks of gestation, and that fetuses do not have the developmental capacity to experience pain, which requires development of conscious understanding. Be aware that three states -- Arkansas, Georgia, and Minnesota -- mandate that health care providers tell women that fetuses may be able to feel pain by 20 weeks of gestational age, an assertion that according to the author is not supported by medical evidence. Review BIRMINGHAM, England, April 14 - Fetuses are physically incapable of feeling pain until the end of the second trimester, and unlike newborn children have not developed the processes that would allow them to recognize pain as a signal of a harmful encounter, a researcher here asserted. An absence of pain in the fetus does not resolve the question of whether abortion is morally acceptable or should be legal, wrote Stuart W.G. Derbyshire, Ph.D., a senior psychologist at the University of Birmingham, in the April 15 issue of the BMJ, formerly the British Medical Journal. Nevertheless, proposals to inform women seeking abortions of the potential for pain in fetuses are not supported by evidence. The states of Arkansas, Georgia, and Minnesota have all enacted legislation requiring that women seeking an abortion be told that fetuses may feel pain after 20 weeks of gestation; and 22 other states have similar legislation pending. A comparable federal law has been proposed. Yet such laws are based on information of dubious merit, Dr. Derbyshire asserted. Legal or clinical mandates for interventions to prevent such pain are scientifically unsound and may expose women to inappropriate interventions, risks, and distress, he wrote. Avoiding a discussion of fetal pain with women requesting abortions is not misguided paternalism, but a sound policy based on good evidence that fetuses cannot experience pain, he added. The crux of his argument is that both from a physiologic and developmental standpoint, fetuses cannot experience pain - in part because the neural circuitry is not fully connected before 26 weeks' gestation, and in part because fetuses don't have the developmental capacity to understand that a provocative stimulus is painful. Important neurobiological developments occur at seven, 18, and 26 weeks' gestation and are the proposed periods for when a fetus can feel pain, he noted. Although the developmental changes during these periods are remarkable, they do not tell us whether the fetus can experience pain. The subjective experience of pain cannot be inferred from anatomical developments because these developments do not account for subjectivity and the conscious contents of pain. Dr. Derbyshire likened the pain perception system in the developing fetus to an alarm system in which the wiring is gradually laid down, but the final connections are not made until 26 weeks gestation, when neuronal projections from the thalamus to the cortex have been completed. The minimum gestational age at which a pain signal may be transmitted from the periphery is seven weeks, the point at which neural projections from the spinal cord can reach the thalamus, he said. Yet the wiring from the thalamus to the cortex is not laid down until about 12 to 16 weeks, and thalamic projections into the cortical plate are not completed until about 23 weeks. Another two to three weeks are needed before peripheral free nerve endings and their projection sites in the spinal cord are fully mature. By 26 weeks' gestation, the characteristic layers of the thalamus and cortex are visible, with obvious similarities to the adult brain, and it has recently been shown that noxious stimulation can evoke hemodynamic changes in the somatosensory cortex of premature babies from a gestational age of 25 weeks, he wrote. Although the system is clearly immature and much development is still to occur, good evidence exists that the biological system necessary for pain is intact and functional from around 26 weeks' gestation. But even with a fully intact and functional system in place, he argued further, fetuses have not developed the conscious capacity to understand, process, or experience pain. He pointed out that the International Association for the Study of Pain defines pain as an unpleasant sensory and emotional experience
Re: [ozmidwifery] massage in pregnancy
A quick literature search found a recent article that deals with this subject well. Didn't find any midwifery/nursing specific articles with this search but I better get back to my assignment ;0. http://www.massagetoday.com/archives/2006/01/11.html Drop me a line if you can't access it and I will forward it on. From my general reading on the net the massage student shouldn't perform massage during pregnancy(but not for the reasons she was given). The consensus of opinion seems to be that massage during pregnancy (especially in the first trimester) is a specialist field that requires specific training and experiance for some of the reasons mentioned above. rgds mike On 4/16/06, Carol Van Lochem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Janet, I did a relaxation massage course 10 years or so ago we were told never to massage anyone in the first trimester for risk of miscarriage. I remember having an argument with the teacher about it as he couldn't give a satisfactory explanation as to why. During the course I myself became pregnant. As students we used to massage each other as we learnt different aspects of the art. I was massaged by my fellow students the whole way through my pregnancy with the same teacher aware I was pregnant. I think basically they taught not to massage in 1st trimester to protect from someone suing if they happened to suffer a miscarriage shortly after a massage. Doubt that any such action would ever stand up in court anyway. Carol From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] massage in pregnancy Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:26:00 +1000 Hi all, can anyone recommend a form of massage particularly beneficial in pregnancy? I've been in contact with a massage student who's been told that she must never on any account massage a woman in pregnancy as it can cause miscarriage. Personally I know that's a crock but I'd love to be able to give her better info, perhaps on traditional and well evidenced forms of massage in pregnancy. TIA, J For home birth information go to: Joyous Birth Australian home birth network and forums. http://www.joyousbirth.info/ Or email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Hospital situations
I find many women birthing in hospital expect and request painrelief including epidurals. I have attended some lovley births both with and without epidurals. I certianly don't promote them but if a women wants an epidural she can have one. On 4/13/06, Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'Good births do happen in hospitals. Regards, Barbara' Very true barbara - thankfully! But its good to hear all these other bits of midwife wisdom Sue (also hospital midwife) The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Barbara Stokes To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: Hospital situations Dear Midwives, I work in a small rural hospital as a midwife/RN for 34 years and we certainly offer many of the suggestions that have been mentioned. Please remember that midwives in hospitals are midwives just as you are with the mothers best interests In their hearts. in most hospital situations all that would be thought of would be an epidural to lessen sensation! :-) Sue Good births do happen in hospitals. Regards, Barbara No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/310 - Release Date: 12/04/2006 -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Group G Strep
Try this link. There is a link to the full text article too. Group G streptococcal pneumonia and sepsis in a newborn infant. A case of neonatal pneumonia and sepsis caused by a group G Streptococcus is described. Clinical and microbiological aspects of group G streptococci are compared with those of group B streptococci. http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=273262 On 4/10/06, Michelle Windsor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, Just wondering if anyone has any experience with Group G strep? We recently had a woman come through with it and I hadn't heard of it before. Some midwives thought it should be treated the same as Group B strep (ie IV ABs in labour, obs on bub) and others thought is wasn't a conern. Since then I've talked to someone from pathology who assures me it isn't a concern for the baby and no need for IV ABs etc. Just interested to know what other places do. Thanks Michelle On Yahoo!7 Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Traditional birth practices
Wow thanks to everone. rgds mike On 4/7/06, Honey Acharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's one website with some reports And the women said... from Kildea http://www.maningrida.com/mac/bwc/introduction.html#aims I found it really interesting. I was also reading a report on Borning.. today although a bit old explained some of the things that were really important to the Aboriginal women interviewed at the time. - Original Message - From: diane [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Traditional birth practices Hi, I like the Maningrida site too, anything by Sue Kildea is good. Helen Callaghan (was in Newcastle) addressed some indiginous issues in a paper she wrote for PhD or doctorate or something along those lines. There is a conference in Sydney soon too, focussing on indiginous issues and birth. Its on the board at work, will chase up details tomorrow if I remember. Di - Original Message - From: Mike Lindsay Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 12:32 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Traditional birth practices Anyone have any articles re traditional birth in the Aboriginal culture for an assignment i'm working on? rgds mike -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] My Sunrise Email
Hi Philippa Fairly simple really. As a Salvation Army Officer (Minister) I knew many Christians. In the early to mid 90's we had a very strong non-denominational christian following of these beliefs. This was across most main stream and penticostal churches and fairly much country wide (NZ). I don't know what the Australian scene was like at the time but this stuff was out of America so I assume that there would have been some influence here too, but perhaps not as strong. I did not intend to tar most christians with this brush and did not say that I felt it was a christian belief. I said that it pops up every now and then and the people who put this out use religion to get their message accros. If you take a look at the Growing christian families website http://www.gfi.org/ you will not be surprised to see the name of the author of the article that started this conversation. I actually feel that we were all saying the same thing. This philosophy is not christian. I feel that further discussion of this topic on the list is probably not appropriate but am happy to discuss philosophy anytime off list or in person. kindest regards mike On 4/6/06, Philippa Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have to agree with Leanne Here. I am very disappointed to think that people believe this of most Christians. I wonder how many Christians you know personally to make that kind of statement. It is certainly not true of any Christians I know and I have spent my whole life in the Christian faith and churches. Very sad statement. Philippa Scott Birth Buddies - Doula Assisting women and their families in the preparation towards childbirth and labour. President of Friends of the Birth Centre Townsville -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of leanne wynne Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 10:36 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] My Sunrise Email Hi Mike and others, You are right about this sort of rigid, controlled child-rearing practices rearing it's head every so often, but it's not Christian in it's foundation anymore than David Koresh and Waco Texas was Christian in it's foundation. This sort of individual (eg Gary Ezzo) is psuedo-christian and merely twists Scripture to manipulate susceptible, vulnerable, sleep-deprived parents into following their instructions. Christianity teaches love and caring in all relationships not the rejection and failure to meet a baby's need for touch and affection that controlled-crying conveys to children!! I'll get off my soap-box now... Leanne. Leanne Wynne Midwife in charge of Women's Business Mildura Aboriginal Health Service Mob 0418 371862 From: Mike Lindsay Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] My Sunrise Email Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 23:35:09 +1000 This isn't new. If rears its head regularly (often in christian circles). The resul;ts of this type of teaching boarder on abuse. rgds mike On 4/4/06, Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm pretty sure this one doesn't have children either. But at least she's more professional and composed than some other sleep experts I know. She's open to criticism and wont offer to sue as a first step LOL Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Watson Sent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 1:03 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] My Sunrise Email Yet again we have another 'expert' telling us firstly that our babies *should* be sleeping through the night, and secondly that there is only one way to make them do this. Children's sleep cycles are so different to adults, that 'sleeping through the night' for them means a 5 hour stretch, not the 11 or so hours mentioned this morning. We are told we 'need' to force strict routines on our babies eating, playing and sleeping. Does this work for anyone? I get hungry at all different times of the day, and denying my body what it needs at the time is not healthy. Our babies tell us what they need, so we practice a child-led 'routine'. It is not a schedule dictated by times, but waiting for him to tell me when he's hungry/tired/ready to play, etc. I don't expect him to sleep all night - I certainly don't! What about getting a different breed of expert on to talk to parents about the realities of baby sleep. Most babies' sleep problems are, I'm sure, due to parents high expectations... then comes the guilt for 'giving in' and allowing your baby to sleep next to you *gasp* so that you can actually get some sleep yourself
[ozmidwifery] Traditional birth practices
Anyone have any articles re traditional birth in the Aboriginal culture for an assignment i'm working on? rgds mike -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] My Sunrise Email
This isn't new. If rears its head regularly (often in christian circles). The resul;ts of this type of teaching boarder on abuse. rgds mike On 4/4/06, Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm pretty sure this one doesn't have children either. But at least she's more professional and composed than some other sleep experts I know. She's open to criticism and wont offer to sue as a first step LOL Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Watson Sent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 1:03 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] My Sunrise Email Yet again we have another 'expert' telling us firstly that our babies *should* be sleeping through the night, and secondly that there is only one way to make them do this. Children's sleep cycles are so different to adults, that 'sleeping through the night' for them means a 5 hour stretch, not the 11 or so hours mentioned this morning. We are told we 'need' to force strict routines on our babies eating, playing and sleeping. Does this work for anyone? I get hungry at all different times of the day, and denying my body what it needs at the time is not healthy. Our babies tell us what they need, so we practice a child-led 'routine'. It is not a schedule dictated by times, but waiting for him to tell me when he's hungry/tired/ready to play, etc. I don't expect him to sleep all night - I certainly don't! What about getting a different breed of expert on to talk to parents about the realities of baby sleep. Most babies' sleep problems are, I'm sure, due to parents high expectations... then comes the guilt for 'giving in' and allowing your baby to sleep next to you *gasp* so that you can actually get some sleep yourself. There is nothing wrong with helping your baby to sleep in gentle ways, not forcing them to learn that no one will come to them if they cry in the night. For your next baby sleep expert, I nominate Pinky McKay. :) Thanks, Jo Watson (Mother and Midwife) -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] managed versus physiological 3rd stage, was: after birth pains
Just a couple of thoughts. 1 Despite a 30min limit they cannot give you treatment without your consent. So as long as you arn't bleeding out you can take longer to deliver your placenta. Logic dictates you arn't going to refuse treatment if this becomes essential and you can always change to active managment if this really become necessary. 2 Early breastfeeding is good for you and for your baby and will probably help deliver your placenta sooner. On 4/3/06, Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Physiological 3rd stage is usual in homebirths and I observe that pain is often when the placenta is separated and sitting in the cervix. The uterus is signaling, get it out. It is a sign for the woman to make efforts to expel it. This may be squat over a bucket, sit on the toilet or simply bear down. The pain goes when the placenta is expelled. Afterbirth pains then take over and this has already been discussed. Cheers, MM -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] quote of the week
I guess the word Paternal(ism) is the one that springs to mind. Another one with a negative conotation sadly. On 4/3/06, Julie Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have found this thought provoking – And I am left wondering about the English language; we have a word for a male dominated society patriarchal, and a word for a female dominated society but I am at a loss to come up with the right word for a society in which the male and female genders are represented equally…. Perhaps the feminist society…. That's the world I'd like to live in… Warm hug Julie From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Watson Sent: Sunday, 2 April 2006 9:22 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] quote of the week So true, Mary. Women are the harshest judges of eachother. Some of the pregnancy/birth/parenting forums I read show this to be true in almost every topic. :( Jo On 02/04/2006, at 3:58 PM, Mary Murphy wrote: If I could wave my wand, our culture would be matriarchal...one of peace, of softness...where children are beloved, where women are revered and taken care of, where birth and mothering are honored and supported.— Raven Lang Midwifery Today Issue 70Wish this was true. It seems to me that women judge each other harshly. MM -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] H*lp please - Article in the Sun Herald
Hey David, did you get the article? Would love a copy. rgds mike On 3/31/06, Mike Lindsay Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey david I found the link to the paid version but couldn't find a downloadable copy which is unusual. http://newsstore.smh.com.au/apps/newsSearch.ac?page=1sp=nrmso=relevancedt=selectRangerc=10dr=1yearpb=all_ffxsfx=headlinesfx=textkw=revolutionsy=smh Lonely beginnings for fathers of the revolution Dads are almost social pariahs if they miss baby's birth, but inside the delivery suite they're also feeling unwanted, Danielle Teutsch writes. Sun Herald 26/03/2006 Cost - $2.20 1195 words It is produced by Sydney morning heralt BTW http://www.smh.com.au/ rgds mike On 3/31/06, Sally-Anne Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David I will try and get a copy for you but when a similar thing has happenned to me in rural Vic... if you call the paper they can send copies either directly to you or your local newsagent (if you have one !). As well as copies been kept in most libraries (public, uni etc) is worth keeping in mind. Kind Regards Sally-Anne - Original Message - From: Great Birth Men at Birth To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 4:02 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] H*lp please - Article in the Sun Herald Dear Folks, Apparently last Sunday (26 March) in the Sun-Herald (Sydney paper) on page 76 there is an article called Lonely beginnings for fathers of the revolution. I provided some material for this article and the journalist was going to let me see it before it went to print. Unfortunately she never let me know it was being published last weekend and therefore I have been unable to get a copy of the article (I live outside Canberra and by the time I found out about it no Canberra newsagents had a copy). I have tried contacting the journo but she has gone on maternity leave! And the paper won't give me her contact details. Does anyone have a copy of it that they could send me? I will of course pay postage costs. Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.acmi.org.au/menatbirth.htm No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/296 - Release Date: 29/03/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/296 - Release Date: 29/03/2006 -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Nitrous oxide
I'd like a copy or a link to your article if possible. rgds mike On 4/3/06, Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Paivi, I realised that you meant this message for me personally, however I did want to let list readers know that my article on the hazards of using nitrous oxide for midwives is in the March issue of MIDIRS. I wrote this article using extensive research supplied by a midwife colleague in the UK and it was primarily aimed at the British midwives who frequently use Entonox in enclosed, unventilated labour rooms, often for many hours. There are significant health effects for midwives (and probably the women as well) and I have written these up in the article. Nitrous oxide affects DNA synthesis and removes Vitamin B12 from the body. That is probably the reason why miscarriage rates are high amongst midwives - the embryo may be damaged by either of these deficiencies and therefore not viable. It is recommended that midwives planning a pregnancy have their B12 levels checked before starting on a pregnancy and that they work in areas away from labour wards during the pregnancy (and possibly breastfeeding). There are other effects as well - chronic fatigue is also reported in midwives (and again may be a problem postnatally for women exposed to nitrous oxide for many hours during labour). I don't know of any research that suggests a link between nitrous oxide and Downs Syndrome. As soon as I can get this article available, you'll all have the references and full details. Regards, Andrea -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] H*lp please - Article in the Sun Herald
Hey david I found the link to the paid version but couldn't find a downloadable copy which is unusual. http://newsstore.smh.com.au/apps/newsSearch.ac?page=1sp=nrmso=relevancedt=selectRangerc=10dr=1yearpb=all_ffxsfx=headlinesfx=textkw=revolutionsy=smh Lonely beginnings for fathers of the revolution Dads are almost social pariahs if they miss baby's birth, but inside the delivery suite they're also feeling unwanted, Danielle Teutsch writes. Sun Herald 26/03/2006 Cost - $2.20 1195 words It is produced by Sydney morning heralt BTW http://www.smh.com.au/ rgds mike On 3/31/06, Sally-Anne Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David I will try and get a copy for you but when a similar thing has happenned to me in rural Vic... if you call the paper they can send copies either directly to you or your local newsagent (if you have one !). As well as copies been kept in most libraries (public, uni etc) is worth keeping in mind. Kind Regards Sally-Anne - Original Message - From: Great Birth Men at Birth To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 4:02 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] H*lp please - Article in the Sun Herald Dear Folks, Apparently last Sunday (26 March) in the Sun-Herald (Sydney paper) on page 76 there is an article called Lonely beginnings for fathers of the revolution. I provided some material for this article and the journalist was going to let me see it before it went to print. Unfortunately she never let me know it was being published last weekend and therefore I have been unable to get a copy of the article (I live outside Canberra and by the time I found out about it no Canberra newsagents had a copy). I have tried contacting the journo but she has gone on maternity leave! And the paper won't give me her contact details. Does anyone have a copy of it that they could send me? I will of course pay postage costs. Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.acmi.org.au/menatbirth.htm No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/296 - Release Date: 29/03/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/296 - Release Date: 29/03/2006 -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Inducing labour
Probably not a PC suggestion but would a medical IOL be better than a C/S. The most natural is lots of intercourse with orgasim. On 3/29/06, Melissa Singer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kim, Given that the baby has to come early, I'd be inclined to introduce non-pharmacological methods of cervical ripening first. For example, evening primrose oil, acupuncture, sexual intercourse plus many of the other herbal remedies. Evening primrose oil, in my opinion only, works wonderfully to ripen the cervix. Most importantly I would ask her to examine her feelings towards birth, natural versus caesarian and help her resolve any fears and anxieties. She also really needs to ask herself is she ready emotionally for this baby to be born. I have seen this work wonders on post dates women who want to avoid induction. Often the big thing for them is fear of change in family dynamics which they have avoided but once they face them and resolve that fearthey start labouring!! But as I've stated that I have only used this method on term/post dates women. Hope this is helpful, Melissa - Original Message - From: Kim Hunter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 1:29 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Inducing labour Hi everyone, I'd like to turn the tables and take off my List Admin hat and you all for a little assistance. I have a friend at college who is due to give birth to her second child in mid April. She has had a very bad time with all day sickness for the entire pregnancy and is at a point where all she wants is to get it out and has almost got to the point of booking a caesarean. Her first child was born by caesarean, so this idea doesn't seem to phase her, although I do get a sense that she'd like to have a natural birth this time round. The catch is it has to come early. Can anyone offer any suggestions or way to naturally bring on labour, so that a caesarean can be avoided. I have asked some of my lecturers about homoeopathics and herbal remedies and they have made the following suggestions that help only after labour has started. Cauloph 200 hourly to initiate labour if contractions are weak. or herbal partus preparation 2.5ml of this taken every hour during labour: raspberry leaf cramp bark motherwort sqaw vine wild yam Jasmine essential oil to the temples to give strong contractions. Jasmine, Clary Sage and Lavender essential oils to the temples on for pain relief. I am still looking into this but would appreciate any help you can offer. Warm regards Kim your friendly listadmin --- Kim Hunter List Administration Birth International ACE Graphics and Associates in Childbirth Education http://www.birthinternational.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] But there is Dr delay to the story from NZ
There is a definite media bias in both Oz and NZ when it comes to midwifery/doctor involvement in Birth issues especially in the area of maternal/neonatal mortality. Interesting to note that the coroner in other recent cases in NZ has made recommendations for improvements but has not blamed/challenged the system in use in NZ. rgds mike On 3/23/06, Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I cannot understand here is that the woman was transferred at 23.45hours for mec liquor, and sat on for the next 5 hours, presumably being monitored by CTG all that time with the mec getting thicker. How come the midwives are copping the blame here? The attending midwife obviously transferred appropriately, it would appear to be hospital mis-management, either lack of monitoring, inexperience in reading the monitor, or lack of appropriate assessment by doctor on duty. Either way, to allow a woman to labour with fetal distress which must have been increasing for the babe to be so compromised is certainly unforgiveable - but why was she left so long? That is the question that needs to be answered. Even in hospital care the doctor was 'too busy' to assess this poor woman? Tragic. Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothingEdmund Burke - Original Message - From: B G To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 6:39 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] But there is Dr delay to the story from NZ Just read the fuller details. Seems to me the midwives took her to hospital correctly but a huge delay in being seen by the Dr! Seems to me there is scaremongering going on. Love to know more about the Dr stats. Barb This article is owned by, or has been licensed to, the New Zealand Herald. You may not reproduce, publish, electronically archive or transmit this article in any manner without the prior written consent of the New Zealand Herald. To make a copyright clearance inquiry, please click here. Alan and Heather Phillips place flowers at the grave site of their baby daughter Tyla in Awhitu. Picture / Kenny Rodger Baby died after hospital errors 20.03.06By Martin Johnston Another baby has died after a series of mistakes partly blamed on midwife care. Tyla Phillips survived for only 7 hours after she was born at Middlemore Hospital in an emergency caesarean operation last August. A hospital specialist later told her parents, Heather and Alan Phillips, that if the operation had been performed three hours earlier she might have lived. The specialist said midwives misread a fetal heart rate monitor. The couple now want an inquiry into maternity and midwifery care because their case follows other newborn deaths with similar themes. Middlemore is saying little publicly about Tyla's birth until the Accident Compensation Corporation has reported its decision to the hospital and Health and Disability Commissioner Ron Paterson has investigated. The hospital says it may refer the case, which had devastated the staff involved, to the commissioner, or medical or midwifery bodies. However, hospital documents and a tape recording the Phillips have of one of their meetings with senior clinicians catalogue the mistakes that led to Tyla's death on August 18 and a follow-up internal review. A key failure was midwives' mis-reading of a fetal heart rate monitor, according to the obstetric consultant on call at the time, Dr Alec Ekeroma, on the tape. He also indicated that the fetal blood-acidity test which led to the caesarean decision - done after an obstetric registrar reviewed the heart monitoring - was unnecessary in the circumstances and wasted time. He said the 21-minute caesarean operation - Tyla was born at 5.53am - should have been done probably two or three hours earlier. If it had been, this may have changed the outcome. Mrs Phillips was several days overdue when she went to the Middlemore-allied Botany Downs Maternity Unit, which was managing her pregnancy. The unit's midwives had her transferred to Middlemore at 11.45pm on August 17. Her waters had broken around 9pm, containing what her medical file says was moderate meconium (faeces from the baby). Staff noticed thick meconium when she arrived at the hospital. The presence of meconium can indicate a distressed baby. Because of
Re: [ozmidwifery] article FYI
The other concern is that a very high persentage of the worlds soy is GE. On 3/21/06, leanne wynne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Studies Short on Soy Formula Risks Experts See Little Health Danger With Formula By Todd Zwillich WebMD Medical News Reviewed By Louise Chang, MD on Friday, March 17, 2006 March 17, 2006 -- There is not enough scientific data to determine whether or not soy formula consumed by millions of infants poses a health risk, a government panel concluded Friday. Experts say they have little concern that an estrogen-like substance in soy -- known as genistein -- poses a developmental risk to infants who consume it or whose parents consumed it in soy-based foods. Still, very few studies have looked at the long-term health effects of soy formula, which is used to feed an estimated 25% of all U.S. infants, the panel says. Soy has raised concerns not only because of its exploding consumption by U.S. infants and adults but also because studies have shown that genistein can interfere with hormonal function in rats and their offspring. A variety of toxic effects, including stunted growth, sexual organ abnormalities, and decreased fertilization, have all been observed in laboratory animals. All of the effects appear to be caused by genistein's ability to mimic the effects of natural estrogen. Some researchers also suspect soy of playing a role in reduced breast cancer rates in Japan, where soy consumption is very high. The committee says it had negligible concern that usual intakes of genistein cause adverse health effects in newborns and infants who consume soy formula, though one expert -- Ruth Etze, MD -- dissented from the conclusion. Etzel, a pediatrician at the Alaska Native Medical Center in Anchorage, could not be reached for comment. Human infants consume much lower genistein doses than laboratory animals, and most of the chemical is not absorbed into the human bloodstream, says Karl Rozman, PhD, a University of Kansas toxicologist who led NIH panel. But at the same time, few studies have looked at soy's effects in a controlled way, he explains. More Study Needed That means there are studies there, but they are not allowing us to come to a firm conclusion one way or another. But it also means that we do not see a problem, says Rozman. One study pegged infant formula feeding as a risk factor for premature breast development in girls. Experts called for better research to determine if that and other potential health effects are real. Another case-control study to examine premature breast development in females following exposure to soy infant formula is needed, the committee concludes. Panelist Jatinder Mhatia, MD, says soy formula has not shown a blip on the radar screen in terms of ill health consequences, despite use by an estimated 40 million total infants. But Mhatia also says parents are up to 10 times more likely to give their infants soy formula in the U.S. than in Britain. Some countries, including Israel, have restricted formula use to prescription-only status for infants who cannot consume milk. But American doctors are quick to recommend formula for fussy infants, which parents are heavily encouraged by advertising to use, he says. Only in our country are we using [soy] in a free-for-all, Mhatia, a pediatrician at the Medical College of Georgia, tells WebMD. Soy has a specific indication, and we tend to use and abuse in America. Why should you use soy unless there's an indication? he says. SOURCES: NTP-CERHR Expert Panel Report on the Reproductive and Developmental Toxicity of Genistein, Center for the Evaluation of Risks to Human Reproduction, National Institutes of Health, March 17, 2006. Karl Rozman, MD, University of Kansas. Jitander Mhatia, MD, department of pediatrics, Medical College of Georgia, Augusta. (c) 2006 WebMD Inc. All rights reserved Leanne Wynne Midwife in charge of Women's Business Mildura Aboriginal Health Service Mob 0418 371862 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] burst vagina's
What the hell is a burst vagina anyway??? Sounds like a big crock to me. Amazing they way language can be used, so much for informed consent. Here is a nice definition: Informed consent is the process by which a fully informed patient can participate in choices about her health care. Perhaps they were referring to a Vaginal fistula, a potential result of obstructed labour. As many as 2/2000 3rd world births. Previous abdominal surgery (I assume C/sect fits here) is the primry cause in the western world. http://www.womenshealthsection.com/content/urog/urogvvf002.php3 Although the exact incidence of vesico-vaginal fistula in the United States is unknown, estimates range between 0.01 to 0.04% of gynecologic procedures. In developing countries vesico-vaginal fistulas are more common and are related to obstructed labor due to unattended deliveries, small pelvic dimensions, malpresentation, poor uterine contractions and introital stenosis. The primary cause of vesico-vaginal fistula in the United States is related to gynecologic surgery. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] trials
On 3/4/06, Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cs what happened to the other 23.3% that didn't birth vaginally What the research said was that 23.3% did not deliver within 24hours. So they either failed to be inducded at all or took longer than 24hours to birth their babies. Also, are women going to be told that they have almost a 50% chance of needing a cs with an induction? Obviously only 22.5% actually required a CS (Yes too high still acording to WHO guidlines) but where did you get 50% risk from? That inductions fail almost half the time Once again where does this percentage come from. You raise really valid issues but this trial seemed to me to be offering birthing women a better option for induction than the very invasive Vaginal option. Yes we do too many IOL'S and way too many C/S's. But many women don't know, don't care or don't have any choice and this particular peice of research might just give them one more option that is less invasive. As for the VBAC situation - women can choose a vbac, many choose elective C/S too. At least they asked the women's preference. Guess what they chose? MM Oral misoprostol for induction of labour at term: randomised controlled trial - BMJ , vol 332, no 7540, 4 March 2006, pp 509-511 Dodd JM; Crowther CA; Robinson JS - (2006) OBJECTIVE: To compare oral misoprostol solution with vaginal prostaglandin gel (dinoprostone) for induction of labour at term to determine whether misoprostol is superior. DESIGN: Randomized double blind placebo controlled trial. SETTING: Maternity departments in three hospitals in Australia.Population Pregnant women with a singleton cephalic presentation at /=36+6 weeks' gestation, with an indication for prostaglandin induction of labour. INTERVENTIONS: 20 microg oral misoprostol solution at two hourly intervals and placebo vaginal gel or vaginal dinoprostone gel at six hourly intervals and placebo oral solution. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Vaginal birth within 24 hours; uterine hyperstimulation with associated changes in fetal heart rate; caesarean section (all); and caesarean section for fetal distress. RESULTS: 741 women were randomised, 365 to the misoprostol group and 376 to the vaginal dinoprostone group. There were no significant differences between the two treatment groups in the primary outcomes: vaginal birth not achieved in 24 hours (misoprostol 168/365 (46.0%) v dinoprostone 155/376 (41.2%); relative risk 1.12, 95% confidence interval 0.95 to 1.32; P=0.134), caesarean section (83/365 (22.7%) v 100/376 (26.6%); 0.82, 0.64 to 1.06; P=0.127), caesarean section for fetal distress (32/365 (8.8%) v 35/376 (9.3%); 0.91, 0.57 to 1.44; P=0.679), or uterine hyperstimulation with changes in fetal heart rate (3/365 (0.8%) v 6/376 (1.6%); 0.55, 0.14 to 2.21; P=0.401). Although there were differences in the process of labour induction, there were no significant differences in adverse maternal or neonatal outcomes. CONCLUSIONS: This trial shows no evidence that oral misoprostol is superior to vaginal dinoprostone for induction of labour. However, it does not lead to poorer health outcomes for women or their infants, and oral treatment is preferred by women. Trial registration National Health and Medical Research Council, Perinatal Trials, PT0361. (11 references) (Author) -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/273 - Release Date: 3/2/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/273 - Release Date: 3/2/2006 -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] article FYI
Just for clarification. This FDA warning is for the new 4D color ultrasounds. There is no problem with having an ordinary ultrasound and getting a print. The warning is because they are new and basically they don't know if they are as safe as the traditional scan. Good article at http://www.southflorida.com/sfparenting/sfe-sfp-fetalimage,0,5283379.story rgds mike On 2/20/06, leanne wynne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Source: http://www.medicinenet.com Health Tip: Avoid Needless Ultrasounds of Fetus (HealthDay News) -- The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has warned against taking a picture of a developing fetus merely as a keepsake. These images can show facial features, hair and even the developing baby's sex. But the FDA says while ultrasounds are generally safe, they can affect developing tissues and may cause a rise in fetal temperature. Also, prenatal images being marketed for non-medical reasons are often done by less-experienced personnel and may expose a fetus to a longer period of imaging than one performed by a medical technician. The FDA recommends that women limit ultrasounds to those done for medical reasons only. -- Deborah DiSesa Hirsch Copyright (c) 2006 ScoutNews LLC. All rights reserved. Leanne Wynne Midwife in charge of Women's Business Mildura Aboriginal Health Service Mob 0418 371862 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers New Photo site@ Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.com Lindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] IV Synto for 3rd stage
I have got away with carfully suggesting that there are things I have to do (because they are hospital policy) but they can always refuse if they wish ;) rgds mike On 1/24/06, Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi kylie re whats been chatting on about you probably were at the same hospital. large teritary. but if it is hospital protocol and you are found not to be doing the protocol then it is your job which would you prefer. Regards Gee What about some lateral thinking! How about informing women about evidence and appropriate care, and giving them a choice!!! Slow in-roads to change but a least a chance of it when midwives work with women to inform and support them rather than with obstetric dominance that dictates and abuses JC -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as life gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR?
Well said Brenda On 1/24/06, brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not on anyones side I am not intending to be inflammatory. But I am a realist inform my homebirthing clients that should they make controversial choices ( I am a big supporter of BAC VBreech) they need to be: not intending to allocate blame if the outcome is unfavourable. It means NOT SUING the OB/MW if the outcome is poor because the client has chosen to take responsibility for her own decision-making. This doesn't make the client a victim. She made informed choices, her caregiver agreed to work with them the outcome is then the clients responsibility (barring out out negligence). When we make important decisions we are accepting the responsibility of educating ourselves about the benefits risks of a procedure then accepting the outcome as this is the consequence of our actions. It's unreasonable to blame-shift if you make a decision while fully informed then don't like the outcome. I'm not absolving health professionals of their role which is to provide a safe practice arena within their sphere of expertise. We are all accountable for our own practice. But the ever increasing litigiousness of our society is a large part of why womens choices are so reduced. I believe that compromise is the solution globally. Unfortunately there are alot of professionals consumers who won't/don't/can't discuss 'give a little to get alot'. Collaborative practice is where everyone ( health prof clients) work together for the benefit of the client. That's what we are aiming for. With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Mike Lindsay Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR? I like the point you make. People should be able to do it their way. And I see and hear midwives annoyance at manipulative behaviour by doctors. But I can also see it from a medical point of view. If it goes wrong the patients become victims and they and their lawyers come running looking for someone to blame. rgds mike On 1/23/06, brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jo, I would absolutely agree with your first statement, heard it many times, got in saved/rescued your baby, just in the nick of time ! I am such a hero! With the second part: whilst very supportive of BAC I think labouring with a uterus which has already dehisced is subsequently heavily scarred is really pushing the boundaries of safety. However: as long as the mother is well informed ( being well informed means knowing the down side as well as the up side) about the risks not intending to allocate blame if the outcome is unfavourable ie a second UR ( hysterectomy etc, plus or minus a fetal death) then she can do what ever she chooses. I have seen in OT the uterus of a woman booked for a repeat EL LUSCS, not in labour, 38/40 with a dehisced area easily 5 cms in the old scar no apparent ill effects for mother or baby. Normal obs, normal CTG, normal fetal mvmts. Absolutely no sign before OT that there was anything amiss. Amazing. She had been offered BAC chose LUSCS...what if ? With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Dean Jo To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:15 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR? not trying to be controversial (honest!) just wanting to think outside norm...how many times have I heard the story of an ob saying to a woman when giving her the repeat cs (for a 'failed vbac attempt not linked to a rupture) oh the scar was so thin it could have ripped open at any second...lucky I saved you from it. (well I am TRYING not sound too facetious) I suppose like anything we must look at rationale for the first event. IF a rupture did occur you could conclude that the repair to the uterus would be quite extensive IF she managed to not lose the uterus- hence the risks for future rupture would increase. But a dehiscence has not been proven to be a serious concern according to the investigation I have done in the last almost 9 years. There is speculation that a scar can slightly part with no harmful effects. Just asking questionsdon't they just HATE informed consumers! ;o) love Jo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: *SUSPECTED SPAM* Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR? You made all my points, Jo. : ) J - Original Message - From: Dean Jo To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:46 PM
Re: [ozmidwifery] dive reflex
On 1/23/06, Ken WArd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you got The Midwife Companion? This book is my bible. Maureen Can you tell me the author of this book. rgds mike My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as life gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR?
I like the point you make. People should be able to do it their way. And I see and hear midwives annoyance at manipulative behaviour by doctors. But I can also see it from a medical point of view. If it goes wrong the patients become victims and they and their lawyers come running looking for someone to blame. rgds mike On 1/23/06, brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jo, I would absolutely agree with your first statement, heard it many times, got in saved/rescued your baby, just in the nick of time ! I am such a hero! With the second part: whilst very supportive of BAC I think labouring with a uterus which has already dehisced is subsequently heavily scarred is really pushing the boundaries of safety. However: as long as the mother is well informed ( being well informed means knowing the down side as well as the up side) about the risks not intending to allocate blame if the outcome is unfavourable ie a second UR ( hysterectomy etc, plus or minus a fetal death) then she can do what ever she chooses. I have seen in OT the uterus of a woman booked for a repeat EL LUSCS, not in labour, 38/40 with a dehisced area easily 5 cms in the old scar no apparent ill effects for mother or baby. Normal obs, normal CTG, normal fetal mvmts. Absolutely no sign before OT that there was anything amiss. Amazing. She had been offered BAC chose LUSCS...what if ? With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Dean Jo To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:15 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR? not trying to be controversial (honest!) just wanting to think outside norm...how many times have I heard the story of an ob saying to a woman when giving her the repeat cs (for a 'failed vbac attempt not linked to a rupture) oh the scar was so thin it could have ripped open at any second...lucky I saved you from it. (well I am TRYING not sound too facetious) I suppose like anything we must look at rationale for the first event. IF a rupture did occur you could conclude that the repair to the uterus would be quite extensive IF she managed to not lose the uterus- hence the risks for future rupture would increase. But a dehiscence has not been proven to be a serious concern according to the investigation I have done in the last almost 9 years. There is speculation that a scar can slightly part with no harmful effects. Just asking questionsdon't they just HATE informed consumers! ;o) love Jo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: *SUSPECTED SPAM* Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR? You made all my points, Jo. : ) J - Original Message - From: Dean Jo To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:46 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after dehsicence or UR? I would have to look for the research (we all know how 'fair' research can be!) but the stated contra-indicators for vbac is previous rupture. Now it doesn't actually state if the chances of another rupture are higher than a normal scar or whether it is a case of dam! Not going to let that happen again! attitude. You could argue I suppose that even a dehiscence that required repair would be considered the same as a repeat cs?? Perhaps no vbac after one rupture/dehiscence would be based on fear and/or presumption. Similar to the situation where a woman loses a baby during labour there is the assumption that she will want a cs next time.??? jo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:37 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after dehsicence or UR? Hi all, does anyone know of research on VB after UR? I was asked this: So if you've had a scar come apart to the point where the baby was on its way out via the DIY sunroof, and the ob says he would have had to cut me open to stitch it up even if I had pushed the baby out, would that make VBA2C too risky? Thanks in advance, J Joyous Birth Home Birth Forum - a world first! http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/ Attending births is like growing roses. You have to marvel at the ones that just open up and bloom at the first kiss of the sun but you wouldn't dream of pulling open the petals of the tightly closed buds and forcing them to blossom to your time line. ~Gloria Lemay~ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 1/20/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 1/20/2006 --
Re: [ozmidwifery] Syringe for sub-cut Heparin?
If you look at an enoxaparin syringe (or other low molecular weight heparin) there is an air bubble that ensures you get the complete and accurate dose. All product litrature recomends not removing this air bubble. So I draw up the .2ml of Heparin 5000u in an insulin syringe and ensure that there is a .1ml air bubble. Not exactly evidence based but seems to be common sense. rgds mike On 1/20/06, Sadie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Andrea, you are confirming what I am thinking. Sadie - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Syringe for sub-cut Heparin? This injection is only 0.2 mls and so if you give it in a 2 ml syringe the dead space is more than that so common sense says this is not a good idea and thus I have never even looked for a policy regarding it. Can you imagine anyone researching this because measuring the dead space would tell you it wont work. try putting a measure amount in any syringe and then push it up until fluid comes out of the syringe and needle. If you draw up 0.2 mls and then push till the dead space is eliminated in a 2 ml syringe it will not fill the dead space. Therefore the smallest syringe available is the best option and in most cases this would be a 0.5 ml insulin syringe. I havent had a look at the product info it probably gives a recommendatiion. Andrea Q On 20/01/2006, at 11:18 AM, Sadie wrote: Hi Wise Women, Is anyone working with a hospital policy regarding the size of syringe to be used when giving a sub cut Heparin 5000 iu injection? If so what is the research behind it. Cheers, Sadie -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as life gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] birthing in private hosp question
It is sad that women pay for private Ob's and Private Hospitals thinking that they are going to get better service and more choices. So often they seem to get the opposite. rgds mike On 1/20/06, Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jayne, Perhaps your friend could try seeing her obstetrician as an insurance policy. Worth paying the money for in case a problem arises, but otherwise not required to do anything until a complication actually arises. An analogy I use is that paying for a doctor is like paying for house insurance. Wonderful when the roof blows off as it means and instant fix is available, but in the meantime, I don't want a roofer coming around every so often to see if he can help out with anything on the roof! When labour starts, she can ask the midwives to call the doctor only if needed. Most doctors won't come anyway until second stage, and then only for the shortest time possible. If all is going well, your friend can ask the midwives to catch the baby, but she will have to make it clear to the doctor in advance that this might be the case. Another idea would be to hand him the camera to take the photos - keep his hands busy elsewhere! Tell her to remember that as she is paying the bill, she is entitled to ask him to do anything (within reason!)! Best wishes, Andrea At 10:06 PM 19/01/2006, you wrote: I have renewed hope in our maternity system! My friend - 41yo, 1st time mum 29 weeks into pregnancy seeing private ob and planing on birthing in private hosp (you know, she only wanted the BEST) - said to me today if I get the chance to have a 2nd child I will by pass the ob and only use a midwife. The ob has done NOTHING! He has barely felt my stomach yet a girl from work is seeing a midwife and she is learning so much from the midwife about her pregnancy. I look forward more to hearing about her midwife visits than I do my ob visits. So I casually suggested that it wasn't too late to 'sack' the ob and go with a midwife! She said she would if she hadn't of already paid the ob the $3,000 out of pocket expense I'm not sure if she had to pay up front or if she was just being financially organised as she is prone to do. I sarcastically told her that chances were he would do something at the birth to justify his fee :( My friend still likes the idea of birthing in the private hosp because if she has a 'natural' birth she is moved to a swish 5 star motel for days 3 to 5 pp funded by her health fund. She wants to know if you have to have an ob when birthing in a private hosp? Regards Jayne - Andrea Robertson Director Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as life gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] article in our local paper today
Did anyone save a copy of this article. I can't seem to access it. Please forward. RGDS Mike On 1/7/06, Sally-Anne Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Congratulations to you Andrea and the women of Echuca . A fabulous article and very timely 2006 the year for reclamation of rural birthing services !! Kind Regards Sally-Anne - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Maternity Coalition [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ozmidwifery ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Cc: Steve Robin Humphress [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Jan Gale Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Helen Gray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 6:45 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] article in our local paper today This was in our local paper today and I thought you might be interested. I sent them an email over a month ago when I received a copy of the report and it took till now for it to appear. Andrea Quanchi http://rivheraldechuca.net/story.asp?TakeNo=200601066155153 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.15/223 - Release Date: 6/01/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.15/223 - Release Date: 6/01/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as life gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] A wonderfully successful vbac birth this morning
Hi. I have just come home from an exciting day as a Student Midwife. My first Two births Okay I was only a witness, but it was still pretty exciting stuff. The first lady was a VBAC. Supposed to be a Cesar on Friday, came in this morning in labour and I think the Obstetrician was so busy with his theatre list that he just let her labour. I think he planned to do a Cesar (in his mind anyway) after lunch. He kept saying that she was progressing BUT she probably wouldnt deliver. And she did!! Not only that but the Dr didnt get there! It was beautiful! Within half an hour the lady who I had been with all morning (IOL for postdates) also delivered. The Dr made it for that one. Shame really, it just wasnt as nice. So.. not my perfect scenarios, I am a Home Birth fan myself, but in a hospital where two weeks ago everyone had a LSCS, I was pretty thrilled to have two normal deliveries. I have to admit caring for the women post section I was beginning to doubt my desire to be a Midwife. It just isnt my thing, all those post op obs and PCAs and drains etc. But todays experience reminded me why I want to do this! Totally enthused! Lindsay From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Julie Clarke Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 6:21 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] A wonderfully successful vbac birth this morning Hi I have just come in the door from supporting at another wonderful birth, which was a successful vbac. The woman had made a well informed choice to aim for a vbac and not a repeat cesar, however she experienced the usual normal anxiety of anyone having a vaginal birth compounded with lack of confidence because she didnt get there last time. Well we worked through those issues slowly and gently, over an hour and a half she pushed her baby into the world a gorgeous baby girl with a lovely head of dark curly hair. The midwife was lovely, gentle, positive, calm, quiet and unobtrusive. The dad was great and got into trouble a couple of times I felt sorry for him he was crestfallen because he was trying to do his best. The woman was so pleased with herself at having achieved what she wanted to achieve a natural active birth with no drugs, no intervention and a fine healthy baby. She didnt have any colostrum after the cesar and was worried but after this normal birth we got the baby on and the baby looked very contented and relaxed as I left. And I have come home with another big smile on my face satisfied in the knowledge that when a woman puts her mind to it and no one stands in her way she can do anything cant she? A great experience to start the day. Warm hug to all Julie Julie Clarke CBE Independent Childbirth and Parenting Educator HypnoBirthing (R) Practitioner ACE Grad Dip Supervisor NACE Advanced Educator and Trainer NACE National Journal Editor Transition into Parenthood Sessions 9 Withybrook Place Sylvania NSW 2224 Telephone 9544 6441 Mobile: 0401 2655 30 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] visit Julie's website: www.transitionintoparenthood.com.au
RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: vasectomy
Title: FW: vasectomy I did meet a man in New Zealand who had, had two vasectomies, they were on the their sixth child, as both vasectomies had failed. They decided that it must be the Will of God. Who can argue with that??? Cheers Lindsay From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Megan and Larry Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 9:49 AM To: ozmidwifery Subject: [ozmidwifery] FW: vasectomy Hi all, Having just done the research, my beloved says he found the suggested fail rate of a vasectomy quoted as being between 1 in 500 to 1 in 1000. Most instances were due to not having waited long enough or getting confirmation with a second test. I also have a girlfriend having her third baby, 2 1/2 yrs after a vasectomy. Having said that I have heard a tubal ligation has a fail rate of 1 in 200, with the risk of an ectopic pregnancy very high as a result. Looking better for the blokes than us girls. If you really think there is a risk (as in Jo's hubbys case) get him to have a sperm count done, it should rule out if he is fertile. Could be worth having done every so often to see what is happening? Or , look at that if you get another baby, then thats a bit special too. Cheers Megan (Looking forward to life post-vasectomy very soon. LOL)
[ozmidwifery] First birth
I am studying to be a Midwife, doing a Diploma of Mid, here in Queensland. Coming from NZ and having had my babies at home, I have a pretty 'normal' view of birth, so have found Midwifery here somewhat surprising if not shocking! I had the pleasure of 'catching' my first baby last week. I was a little saddened that my first baby was born by Caesarean Section!! I have spent the last week working in a private hospital, where it seems nearly all babies are born by C/s. It seems so tragic that these women who are paying for the 'best' care are being cheated of what can be the most rewarding and amazing experience of a woman' life. I know that some women need to have c/s, but the first c/s I witnessed was for Breech presentation, imagine my surprise when the baby came out head first. The next one was because the baby was 'huge'. I weighed that baby... just on 8lb. It all seems distorted with women choosing Specialist care that seems to make them at higher risk for any birth interventions, particularly c/s. Yet women tell me that going to an Obstetrician means that they don't have to wait up at the hospital clinics for hours, and at least they see the same person each visit. I understand where they are coming from, it just seems that, that 'one person' they see, should be a Midwife. Disillusioned:( Lindsay -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] First birth
Why is it that women have to wait so long at public clinics? I can answer this question in respect to the local public hospital. I worked in clinics a few weeks ago. They make appointments from 8.00am. No doctors start before 9.30 at the earliest. Of course the women have to wait for hours! They are reporting up to 5 hr waits! I think it is appalling, but of course being the student, there isn't a lot you can do. I did suggest to women (unofficially) that they ring to see if the appointments were running on time to see if that would minimize the wait. The other thing that causes problems, is that there are more women booked often than there is enough time for. Lindsay -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 12:16 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] First birth Lindsay wrote women tell me that going to an Obstetrician means that they don't have to wait up at the hospital clinics for hours, and at least they see the same person each visit. I understand where they are coming from, it just seems that, 'one person' they see, should be a Midwife. Why is it that women have to wait so long at public clinics? All the women I ask to attend a pub clinic for homebirth backup booking tell me the same. sometimes it is a factor in them not going for the visit and refusing to return at a later date. The Obs has his receptionist and ? one other? why do we have so much support staff in hospital clinics and yet it can take all morning waiting for an appointment . It makes women feel as tho they are 2nd class citizens. Is there an efficiency expert out there that could fix this? MM -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] breastmilk for preterm babies
Hi I work in NICU (in addition to being a student midwife). We encourage the mothers to begin expressing ASAP and we use al the milk and colostrum. We tend to begin enteral feeds quite quickly ie in the first 2-3 days at a very low rate... perhaps 1ml 12 hrly for littlies. We have a clear policy regarding storage of EBM. Can be in the fridge for up to 5 days. We freeze a lot of milk and it can be kept in the deep freeze for 6-12 months depending on the type of freezer. Once defrosted we use it within 24 hrs. All EBM is double checked before use. All calories are double checked. We don't get a lot of HIV mothers so I am unsure about our practice there, however we have had mothers with Hep B who have breastfed. Hope this answers the question Cheers Linz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Denise Fisher Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 9:08 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] breastmilk for preterm babies Hi all I've had an enquiry from a Lactation Consultant in France wanting to know about how we in Australia manage mother's milk for our preterm babies. Could you please share with me what your NICU and SCBU does? ie... is all colostrum and breastmilk automatically saved and given to the baby as soon as baby is tolerating enteral feeds? How is this milk stored? Does the mother have to be checked for HIV, Hep B, C, CMV, HTLV1, HTLV2? Is mothers own breastmilk treated in any way - ie must be frozen, must be pasteurised, etc. All I want is a general idea - you don't need to identify your units, unless of course you are particularly proud of your excellent breastfeeding-friendly practices :-) Thank you Denise *** Denise Fisher Health e-Learning http://www.health-e-learning.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.7 - Release Date: 3/1/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.7 - Release Date: 3/1/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
