Re: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
Propolis tincture taken orally is supposed to be effective against GBS - again, little research in the alternate area perhaps because of the mega$$ pharmaceutical and diagnostic industries around childbirth. And the research really shows that although IV antibiotics decreases the number of babies with GBS, it also increases the number of babies with other blood borne infections that can also be dangerous (the ABs killoff the GBS but allow other bugs to gain resistance). And the babies whose mothers were given IV antibiotics in labour have an increased resistance to that antibiotic - obviosly more of an issue for premmie and sick babies... An interesting article by Christa Novelli 2003 which discusses the risk of the mother taking antibiotics as well: www.mothering.com/articles/pregnancy_birth/birth_preparation/group-b.html How great is the risk from antibiotics? The recommended antibiotic for treating GBS during labor is penicillin. Fewer bacteria currently show a resistance to penicillin than to other antibiotics used to treat GBS. The options are fewer for women known to be allergic to penicillin. Up to 29 percent of GBS strains have been shown to be resistant to non-penicillin antibiotics.46 For women not known to be allergic to penicillin, there is a one in ten risk of a mild allergic reaction to penicillin, such as a rash. Even for those women who have no prior experience of a penicillin allergy, there is a one in 10,000 chance of developing anaphylaxis, a life-threatening allergic reaction. We can compare this to CDC estimates that 0.5 percent of babies born to GBS-positive mothers with no treatment will develop a GBS infection, and that 6 percent of those who develop a GBS infection will die. Six percent of 0.5 percent means that three out of every 10,000 babies born to GBS-positive mothers given no antibiotics during labor will die from GBS infection. If the mother develops anaphylaxis during labor (one in 10,000 will), and it is untreated, it is likely that the infant, too, will die. So, by CDC estimates, we save the lives of two in 10,000 babies-0.02 percent-by administering antibiotics during labor to one third of all laboring women. We should also keep in mind that this figure does not take into account the infants that will die as a result of bacteria made antibiotic-resistant by the use of antibiotics during labor-infants who would not otherwise have become ill. When you take that into account, there may not be any lives saved by using antibiotics during labor. Nothing we do or take in life can be an absolute - and some of this stuff takes lots of sorting out. Where I have been doing my clinical placements, if a mother had GBS in her previous pregnancy (but not necessarily this one) she is still treated with IV antibiotics. Yet the research clearly states that a previous baby with GBS disease is an indicator for GBS treatment in subsequent pregnancies, not merely being GBS positive in the previous pregnancy. So midwives, women and the medical profession seem to be all over the place with different interpretations of research and policy directives. It must come down to individual's perception of risks and safety - and that there can be no assurances that treatment or non-treatment will work. As Novelli states, women with negative GBS cultures still have a 1:2000 risk of her newborn developing GBS disease. I guess all we can do is give the information and trust that the decision made by the parents will be one that they are happy with ... Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
A homebirth midwife friend of mine in the USA sent me the douch and garlic recipes a while ago. Here they are: regards Diane Gardner douche: three parts water one part hydrogen peroxide douche before bed four nights in a row having the morning of the fifth day the day of your 'test' (if person is taking the test this gets you a negative result, which is a real result as the h2O2 has killed off all the strep virons in the vagina so the woman is 'good to go' for her birth as well) OR: insert one raw garlic clove vaginally for six nights in a row. Scoring the cloves is best, however, the raw garlic juice can be strong and 'burny' in the vagina. Start with just one or two 'scores' or break surface of the clove with a knife point 2-3 times. See how that feels and go from there, the more scoring or pokes into the surface of the garlic, the more GBS killing takes place. The woman may taste garlic in her mouth after insertion. Some women are really worried and do both, the douche and then insert garlic--THAT combo would REALLY get all GBS microbes for sure!
Re: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
There is considerable literature on the dangers of antibiotics in labour not to mention the added difficulty to the women trying to labour with an IV hanging off them. Antibiotics can also cause thrush which when passed from mother to baby and back again can cause immense difficulties with breastfeeding. It's not as simple as antibiotics are easier than dying of GBS, nothing like it! http://www.joyousbirth.info/articles/gbsnaturalapproach.html - Original Message - From: Diane Gardner To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS A homebirth midwife friend of mine in the USA sent me the douch and garlic recipes a while ago. Here they are: regards Diane Gardner douche: three parts water one part hydrogen peroxide douche before bed four nights in a row having the morning of the fifth day the day of your 'test' (if person is taking the test this gets you a negative result, which is a real result as the h2O2 has killed off all the strep virons in the vagina so the woman is 'good to go' for her birth as well) OR: insert one raw garlic clove vaginally for six nights in a row. Scoring the cloves is best, however, the raw garlic juice can be strong and 'burny' in the vagina. Start with just one or two 'scores' or break surface of the clove with a knife point 2-3 times. See how that feels and go from there, the more scoring or pokes into the surface of the garlic, the more GBS killing takes place. The woman may taste garlic in her mouth after insertion. Some women are really worried and do both, the douche and then insert garlic--THAT combo would REALLY get all GBS microbes for sure!
Re: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
Hi, Some more on the GBS line. Propolis tincture taken orally is supposed to be effective against GBS - again, little research in the alternate area perhaps because of the mega$$ pharmaceutical and diagnostic industries around childbirth. And the research really shows that although IV antibiotics decreases the number of babies with GBS, it also increases the number of babies with other blood borne infections that can also be dangerous (the ABs killoff the GBS but allow other bugs to gain resistance). And the babies whose mothers were given IV antibiotics in labour have an increased resistance to that antibiotic - obviosly more of an issue for premmie and sick babies... An interesting article by Christa Novelli 2003 which discusses the risk of the mother taking antibiotics as well: www.mothering.com/articles/pregnancy_birth/birth_preparation/group-b.html How great is the risk from antibiotics? The recommended antibiotic for treating GBS during labor is penicillin. Fewer bacteria currently show a resistance to penicillin than to other antibiotics used to treat GBS. The options are fewer for women known to be allergic to penicillin. Up to 29 percent of GBS strains have been shown to be resistant to non-penicillin antibiotics.46 For women not known to be allergic to penicillin, there is a one in ten risk of a mild allergic reaction to penicillin, such as a rash. Even for those women who have no prior experience of a penicillin allergy, there is a one in 10,000 chance of developing anaphylaxis, a life-threatening allergic reaction. We can compare this to CDC estimates that 0.5 percent of babies born to GBS-positive mothers with no treatment will develop a GBS infection, and that 6 percent of those who develop a GBS infection will die. Six percent of 0.5 percent means that three out of every 10,000 babies born to GBS-positive mothers given no antibiotics during labor will die from GBS infection. If the mother develops anaphylaxis during labor (one in 10,000 will), and it is untreated, it is likely that the infant, too, will die. So, by CDC estimates, we save the lives of two in 10,000 babies-0.02 percent-by administering antibiotics during labor to one third of all laboring women. We should also keep in mind that this figure does not take into account the infants that will die as a result of bacteria made antibiotic-resistant by the use of antibiotics during labor-infants who would not otherwise have become ill. When you take that into account, there may not be any lives saved by using antibiotics during labor. Nothing we do or take in life can be an absolute - and some of this stuff takes lots of sorting out. Where I have been doing my clinical placements, if a mother had GBS in her previous pregnancy (but not necessarily this one) she is still treated with IV antibiotics. Yet the research clearly states that a previous baby with GBS disease is an indicator for GBS treatment in subsequent pregnancies, not merely being GBS positive in the previous pregnancy. So midwives, women and the medical profession seem to be all over the place with different interpretations of research and policy directives. It must come down to individual's perception of risks and safety - and that there can be no assurances that treatment or non-treatment will work. As Novelli states, women with negative GBS cultures still have a 1:2000 risk of her newborn developing GBS disease. I guess all we can do is give the information and trust that the decision made by the parents will be one that they are happy with ... Sue
Re: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
Small sample I know, but of two women who have used the garlic, one swabbed positive with heavy growth, the other negative... Cheers, Di - Original Message - From: Robyn Dempsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS I'd consult with a herbalist. Echinacea tinctures/ douches etc can be mixed up. I also have heard that a clove of garlic inserted into the vagina ( peeled clove) for 3 nights in a row also aids in reducing GBS. Robyn D - Original Message - From: Melanie Sommeling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS Hi wise women of the list, I am curious if anyone can enlighten me of any alternatives to Antibiotics in labour to decrease GBS transfer from mother to baby. I recollect some info about douching during labour, but the info was sketchy to say the least. I understand the risks of transfer are low and the risk or negative effects are even lower, but alternatively have witnessed a birth of a GBS positive mother where AB's were administered and the baby still developed respiratory distress with several hours of birth and question the validity of using AB'a at all. Any advice on the matter would be greatly appriciated. Melanie -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
I have a woman at the moment who has had threatened pre-term labour, they are hoping with everything she gets to 37 weeks... I know some doctors like to have ab's for prem labour - is this the case in most hospitals? Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby BellyBelly Birth Support -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of diane Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 9:26 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS Small sample I know, but of two women who have used the garlic, one swabbed positive with heavy growth, the other negative... Cheers, Di - Original Message - From: Robyn Dempsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS I'd consult with a herbalist. Echinacea tinctures/ douches etc can be mixed up. I also have heard that a clove of garlic inserted into the vagina ( peeled clove) for 3 nights in a row also aids in reducing GBS. Robyn D - Original Message - From: Melanie Sommeling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS Hi wise women of the list, I am curious if anyone can enlighten me of any alternatives to Antibiotics in labour to decrease GBS transfer from mother to baby. I recollect some info about douching during labour, but the info was sketchy to say the least. I understand the risks of transfer are low and the risk or negative effects are even lower, but alternatively have witnessed a birth of a GBS positive mother where AB's were administered and the baby still developed respiratory distress with several hours of birth and question the validity of using AB'a at all. Any advice on the matter would be greatly appriciated. Melanie -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
Hi wise women of the list, I am curious if anyone can enlighten me of any alternatives to Antibiotics in labour to decrease GBS transfer from mother to baby. I recollect some info about douching during labour, but the info was sketchy to say the least. I understand the risks of transfer are low and the risk or negative effects are even lower, but alternatively have witnessed a birth of a GBS positive mother where AB's were administered and the baby still developed respiratory distress with several hours of birth and question the validity of using AB'a at all. Any advice on the matter would be greatly appriciated. Melanie -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
Hi Melanie, I suppose it is all about comparing the risks associated with having antibiotics with the risk of the baby being affected by GBS. The antibiotics are unlikely to do harm, except perhaps by damaging the woman's normal flora for a time. The consequences of things going wrong with the baby should it contract GBS are devastating. The chance of complications of either is small but the complications of GBS are so devastating as to warrant giving the antibiotics, I believe. Not all intervention is bad. All the best, Nicole. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Melanie Sommeling Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 10:15 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS Hi wise women of the list, I am curious if anyone can enlighten me of any alternatives to Antibiotics in labour to decrease GBS transfer from mother to baby. I recollect some info about douching during labour, but the info was sketchy to say the least. I understand the risks of transfer are low and the risk or negative effects are even lower, but alternatively have witnessed a birth of a GBS positive mother where AB's were administered and the baby still developed respiratory distress with several hours of birth and question the validity of using AB'a at all. Any advice on the matter would be greatly appriciated. Melanie -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
Some women use garlic vaginally to kill the GSB. There are other natural remedies too. Cheers Philippa Scott Birth Buddies - Doula Assisting women and their families in the preparation towards childbirth and labour. President of Friends of the Birth Centre Townsville -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nicole Carver Sent: Friday, 17 November 2006 10:01 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS Hi Melanie, I suppose it is all about comparing the risks associated with having antibiotics with the risk of the baby being affected by GBS. The antibiotics are unlikely to do harm, except perhaps by damaging the woman's normal flora for a time. The consequences of things going wrong with the baby should it contract GBS are devastating. The chance of complications of either is small but the complications of GBS are so devastating as to warrant giving the antibiotics, I believe. Not all intervention is bad. All the best, Nicole. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Melanie Sommeling Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 10:15 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS Hi wise women of the list, I am curious if anyone can enlighten me of any alternatives to Antibiotics in labour to decrease GBS transfer from mother to baby. I recollect some info about douching during labour, but the info was sketchy to say the least. I understand the risks of transfer are low and the risk or negative effects are even lower, but alternatively have witnessed a birth of a GBS positive mother where AB's were administered and the baby still developed respiratory distress with several hours of birth and question the validity of using AB'a at all. Any advice on the matter would be greatly appriciated. Melanie -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
Melanie By any chance did this mother have artifical rupture of membranes or a fetal scalp electrode applied? Briege Melanie Sommeling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi wise women of the list, I am curious if anyone can enlighten me of any alternatives to Antibiotics in labour to decrease GBS transfer from mother to baby. I recollect some info about douching during labour, but the info was sketchy to say the least. I understand the risks of transfer are low and the risk or negative effects are even lower, but alternatively have witnessed a birth of a GBS positive mother where AB's were administered and the baby still developed respiratory distress with several hours of birth and question the validity of using AB'a at all. Any advice on the matter would be greatly appriciated. Melanie -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. - All New Yahoo! Mail Tired of [EMAIL PROTECTED]@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
Nicole, There has been some research done on the effects of antibiotics in labour to prevent the transmission of GBS to babies. What appears to be the case from current research is that the rates of GBS transmission do not change significantly as a result of the antibiotics but the babies who are exposed to the GBS are less liekly to become ill from GBS infection. However, there is an increase in the risk of e-coli and other infections that are resistent to the antibiotics, and therefore can result in more devastating infeections as they cannot be treated with standard antibiotics. So yes, the risk of GBS illness is reduced, but the risk of other antibiotic resitent infections is increased. I am fascinated to note that having now worked in the UK, Australia and Asia as a doula and in my role as a doula trainer have students from all over the world, the risk of GBS illness is so much higher in the USA than other comparitive developed countries. Another thing I struggle to understand on the topic of GBS. If the GBS is diagnosed it is determined that it came from the mother if she was GBS positive. However, a significant portion of woman can be GBS at any given time. If the baby is separated from the mother at birth and taken to the nursery, as is the case in the USA in most birth settings, and increasingly happening in other countries, or if the baby is routinely handled by staff at birth who may have been exposed to other babies or woman with GBS (e.g. handling soiled materials from a mother who had already delivered and was GBS positive), how do we know that the GBS was transmitted by the mother and not by the staff? I noted when I worked in the UK that GBS was rare, and babies were not handled by the staff as much as in the USA and certainly never went to nurseries because there weren't any in the public hospital system. here in Singapore, I have never seen a GBS affected baby amongst our clients, despite having had clients who were GBS positive (some took abx and some did not), but it is seen more commonly amongst other women here - the difference? The clients we work with have their babies roomed in, have minimal handling of their babies by staff etc, whereas the majority of woman have their babies taken to the nursery and held, bathed, fed etc by staff. Would be interested in seeing research that compares GBS infection rates amongst woman having low intervention births in settings that have close mother/baby contact compared to those rates in more actively managed settings. Nikki Macfarlane Childbirth International www.childbirthinternational.com - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 8:01 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS Hi Melanie, I suppose it is all about comparing the risks associated with having antibiotics with the risk of the baby being affected by GBS. The antibiotics are unlikely to do harm, except perhaps by damaging the woman's normal flora for a time. The consequences of things going wrong with the baby should it contract GBS are devastating. The chance of complications of either is small but the complications of GBS are so devastating as to warrant giving the antibiotics, I believe. Not all intervention is bad. All the best, Nicole. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
Hello Melanie, A Danish Obstetrician came to John Hunter Hospital (Newcastle NSW) and presented some time ago on the use of Chlorhexidine douche for women with GBS positive swabs. Very popular in Denmark apparently and is being heralded as the treatment for women in third world countries because it is cheap. The Cochrane review is equivocal in its endorsment, but the Danish Obs was very very convincing with her stats. When Belmont Birthing Service first opened, all the women with GBS positive swabs had to go to John Hunter to give birth because we were not credentialled to give IV antibiotics at Belmont. We are a stand alone midwifery service so do not have doctors onsite for assistance if someone had an anaphylaxis. Many of the women were very upset about not being able to have their babies at Belmont, whilst others were very unhappy about using antibiotics for all the good reasons already mentioned, so remembering the chlorhexidine douche presentation, we were able to provide that as an option for those women who were willing to use that as something that was not considered as effective as antibiotics. We have since done the nurse immunisers course and so are also able to give IV antibiotics at Belmont. Interestingly, most women still choose the douche. We can give the women the equipment to take home and they can douche themselves if they think they are going into labour, or if their membranes release. We give them two doses and they let us know what they are doing. The chlorhexidine is a lovely blue colour, so it is interesting to see women's vaginal discharge after the douche - looks different on the partograph :-) We have a GBS policy for us and an instruction sheet for the women. We also have an information sheet for women to read before they do the swab. If you would like a copy, please email me at work and I can send them to you. [EMAIL PROTECTED] warmly, Carolyn - Original Message - From: Melanie Sommeling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS Hi wise women of the list, I am curious if anyone can enlighten me of any alternatives to Antibiotics in labour to decrease GBS transfer from mother to baby. I recollect some info about douching during labour, but the info was sketchy to say the least. I understand the risks of transfer are low and the risk or negative effects are even lower, but alternatively have witnessed a birth of a GBS positive mother where AB's were administered and the baby still developed respiratory distress with several hours of birth and question the validity of using AB'a at all. Any advice on the matter would be greatly appriciated. Melanie -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
Hi Melanie Try gentlebirth... http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/gbs.html Hi wise women of the list, I am curious if anyone can enlighten me of any alternatives to Antibiotics in labour to decrease GBS transfer from mother to baby. I recollect some info about douching during labour, but the info was sketchy to say the least. I understand the risks of transfer are low and the risk or negative effects are even lower, but alternatively have witnessed a birth of a GBS positive mother where AB's were administered and the baby still developed respiratory distress with several hours of birth and question the validity of using AB'a at all. Any advice on the matter would be greatly appriciated. Melanie -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
This http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/gbs.html is a great site and of course, the question about health, wellness and GBS screening rears its head in any thinking person's mind. However, we (working in the 'system') deal with the harsh reality of modern obstetrics and neonatology and until our culture settles down about the concept of 'risk' and our individual and corporate madness about fear of litigation... we comply with the dominant 'status quo' and help create many of the situations we are seeking to 'control'. We have official 'conversations' about whether women who decline (fill in the blank) should be able to give birth at our unit at all. g How I yearn for the day when information about Quantum physics and neuropsychobiophysiology permeates and influences all obstetrics and neonatology and true informed choice is truly valued and the pressure to conform that causes resistence patterns or reluctant compliance, with all the mischief that brings, is avoided. It is coming, it has to. The day of the factory approach to mothers and babies is over. Some people haven't caught up yet. Just to clarify, clearly there are situations where it is very advisable, if not imperative, that women are screened for various phenomena or have intervention(s) that is/are indicated by their particular situation. It is the 'cookie cutter' one size fits all and if you don't 'comply' then you are wrong approach to childbearing that is the issue. Information (unbiased), exploration of ideas as to what things mean to the individual, freedom and supported choices are the answer. warmly, Carolyn - Original Message - From: LJG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 9:44 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS Hi Melanie Try gentlebirth... http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/gbs.html Hi wise women of the list, I am curious if anyone can enlighten me of any alternatives to Antibiotics in labour to decrease GBS transfer from mother to baby. I recollect some info about douching during labour, but the info was sketchy to say the least. I understand the risks of transfer are low and the risk or negative effects are even lower, but alternatively have witnessed a birth of a GBS positive mother where AB's were administered and the baby still developed respiratory distress with several hours of birth and question the validity of using AB'a at all. Any advice on the matter would be greatly appriciated. Melanie -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
What about the risk of absorption of chlorhexidine? When the cream was used on newborn babies it was toxic. MM A Danish Obstetrician came to John Hunter Hospital (Newcastle NSW) and presented some time ago on the use of Chlorhexidine douche for women with GBS positive swabs. Very popular in Denmark apparently and is being heralded as the treatment for women in third world countries because it is cheap. The Cochrane review is equivocal in its endorsment, but the Danish Obs was very very convincing with her stats. When Belmont Birthing Service first opened, all the women with GBS positive swabs had to go to John Hunter to give birth because we were not credentialled to give IV antibiotics at Belmont. We are a stand alone midwifery service so do not have doctors onsite for assistance if someone had an anaphylaxis. Many of the women were very upset about not being able to have their babies at Belmont, whilst others were very unhappy about using antibiotics for all the good reasons already mentioned, so remembering the chlorhexidine douche presentation, we were able to provide that as an option for those women who were willing to use that as something that was not considered as effective as antibiotics. We have since done the nurse immunisers course and so are also able to give IV antibiotics at Belmont. Interestingly, most women still choose the douche. We can give the women the equipment to take home and they can douche themselves if they think they are going into labour, or if their membranes release. We give them two doses and they let us know what they are doing. The chlorhexidine is a lovely blue colour, so it is interesting to see women's vaginal discharge after the douche - looks different on the partograph :-) We have a GBS policy for us and an instruction sheet for the women. We also have an information sheet for women to read before they do the swab. If you would like a copy, please email me at work and I can send them to you. [EMAIL PROTECTED] warmly, Carolyn - Original Message - From: Melanie Sommeling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS Hi wise women of the list, I am curious if anyone can enlighten me of any alternatives to Antibiotics in labour to decrease GBS transfer from mother to baby. I recollect some info about douching during labour, but the info was sketchy to say the least. I understand the risks of transfer are low and the risk or negative effects are even lower, but alternatively have witnessed a birth of a GBS positive mother where AB's were administered and the baby still developed respiratory distress with several hours of birth and question the validity of using AB'a at all. Any advice on the matter would be greatly appriciated. Melanie -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
I'd consult with a herbalist. Echinacea tinctures/ douches etc can be mixed up. I also have heard that a clove of garlic inserted into the vagina ( peeled clove) for 3 nights in a row also aids in reducing GBS. Robyn D - Original Message - From: Melanie Sommeling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS Hi wise women of the list, I am curious if anyone can enlighten me of any alternatives to Antibiotics in labour to decrease GBS transfer from mother to baby. I recollect some info about douching during labour, but the info was sketchy to say the least. I understand the risks of transfer are low and the risk or negative effects are even lower, but alternatively have witnessed a birth of a GBS positive mother where AB's were administered and the baby still developed respiratory distress with several hours of birth and question the validity of using AB'a at all. Any advice on the matter would be greatly appriciated. Melanie -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS
Good question Mary. Thanks for your comments. As far as Chlorhexidine cream goes, my memory is that it was an antibacterial lubricant for vaginal examinations and that it irritated too many women's mucosa and that is why we gave that up in favour of the clear gel. As for the creams we put on babies to 'debug' them in the old days - my memory is 'phisohex' and 'steriskin' and yes, they were considered to be toxic after many years of dousing untold thousands of babies with these substances. As I have thought about your question I realise that I have no idea what the active agent was in these cleansers. In thinking further about the issue of the chlorhexidine douche and toxicity, my thinking is that the concentration of active substance in a watery medium is much lower that any preparation that is cream based and quickly 'washed out' by the active vaginal mucosa and if membranes are released, the liquor, so reducing any possiblity of toxic reaction. My other thought that as it is locally given, the absorption rate would be much less than that of antibiotics given intravenously and so provides a satisfactory option for women who chose to use some form of preventative chemical therapy and yet wish to avoid antibiotics. What is interesting for me is that women who are GBS negative, have to transfer if they have SROMS and are over 18 hours without having given birth, but if they are GBS positive and using chlorhexidine they don't transfer ... all very fascinating. What do you think about the douche and toxicity? Is my thinking plausible? warmly, Carolyn - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS What about the risk of absorption of chlorhexidine? When the cream was used on newborn babies it was toxic. MM A Danish Obstetrician came to John Hunter Hospital (Newcastle NSW) and presented some time ago on the use of Chlorhexidine douche for women with GBS positive swabs. Very popular in Denmark apparently and is being heralded as the treatment for women in third world countries because it is cheap. The Cochrane review is equivocal in its endorsment, but the Danish Obs was very very convincing with her stats. When Belmont Birthing Service first opened, all the women with GBS positive swabs had to go to John Hunter to give birth because we were not credentialled to give IV antibiotics at Belmont. We are a stand alone midwifery service so do not have doctors onsite for assistance if someone had an anaphylaxis. Many of the women were very upset about not being able to have their babies at Belmont, whilst others were very unhappy about using antibiotics for all the good reasons already mentioned, so remembering the chlorhexidine douche presentation, we were able to provide that as an option for those women who were willing to use that as something that was not considered as effective as antibiotics. We have since done the nurse immunisers course and so are also able to give IV antibiotics at Belmont. Interestingly, most women still choose the douche. We can give the women the equipment to take home and they can douche themselves if they think they are going into labour, or if their membranes release. We give them two doses and they let us know what they are doing. The chlorhexidine is a lovely blue colour, so it is interesting to see women's vaginal discharge after the douche - looks different on the partograph :-) We have a GBS policy for us and an instruction sheet for the women. We also have an information sheet for women to read before they do the swab. If you would like a copy, please email me at work and I can send them to you. [EMAIL PROTECTED] warmly, Carolyn - Original Message - From: Melanie Sommeling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Alternative GBS Hi wise women of the list, I am curious if anyone can enlighten me of any alternatives to Antibiotics in labour to decrease GBS transfer from mother to baby. I recollect some info about douching during labour, but the info was sketchy to say the least. I understand the risks of transfer are low and the risk or negative effects are even lower, but alternatively have witnessed a birth of a GBS positive mother where AB's were administered and the baby still developed respiratory distress with several hours of birth and question the validity of using AB'a at all. Any advice on the matter would be greatly appriciated. Melanie -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe
