Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
And you may find this work amazing! http://www.primal-page.com/birthart.htm warmly, Carolyn - Original Message - From: Judy Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality Have just found these: http://childbirthsolutions.com/articles/pregnancy/birthsoul/index.php http://childbirthsolutions.com/articles/pregnancy/lifelong/index.php Cheers Judy Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Help! Someone started a discussion on my forums about birth and how it shapes the baby as an individual. Of course, everyone thought that concept was ludicrous, think studies and percentages are rubbish and must think I am a quack for thinking otherwise LOL J Can anyone else back me up?! I need some support!!! If you aren't signed up in my forums, please feel free to, or post here any suggestions or comments. http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=17144 Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
Have just found these: http://childbirthsolutions.com/articles/pregnancy/birthsoul/index.php http://childbirthsolutions.com/articles/pregnancy/lifelong/index.php Cheers Judy Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Help! Someone started a discussion on my forums about birth and how it shapes the baby as an individual. Of course, everyone thought that concept was ludicrous, think studies and percentages are rubbish and must think I am a quack for thinking otherwise LOL J Can anyone else back me up?! I need some support!!! If you arent signed up in my forums, please feel free to, or post here any suggestions or comments. http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=17144 Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
Hello everyone, these are great resources Judy, thanks for sharing them. Bernig Mauger's books are great, she is an amazing woman with the work she does. The evidence is overwhelming that babies are affected and their brain/personality shaped by what happens during pregnancy and at birth and of course, after birth. Babies, whether in the womb or out of it are emotional creatures and respond to their environment emotionally. They (and we) learn through our emotional experiences both good and bad. Our neurology is wired up (neural networks) by how we feel about things and prenates and neonates are the same. The APPAH is a very interesting organisation and their website is fascinating www.birthpsychology.com Dr James Prescott's work on the origin of violence and peace http://www.violence.de/ the Association for the transformation of the lives of children is also excellent. http://www.atlc.org/ and then there is touch the future http://www.ttfuture.org/services/publications/power_of_love.htm Michel Odent's womb ecology http://www.wombecology.com/ there are books like The Developing Mind: How the brain and relationships shape who we are by Dr Daniel Seigal and there are lots more warmly, Carolyn - Original Message - From: Judy Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality Have just found these: http://childbirthsolutions.com/articles/pregnancy/birthsoul/index.php http://childbirthsolutions.com/articles/pregnancy/lifelong/index.php Cheers Judy Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Help! Someone started a discussion on my forums about birth and how it shapes the baby as an individual. Of course, everyone thought that concept was ludicrous, think studies and percentages are rubbish and must think I am a quack for thinking otherwise LOL J Can anyone else back me up?! I need some support!!! If you aren't signed up in my forums, please feel free to, or post here any suggestions or comments. http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=17144 Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
Hi Kelly I read an article earlier this year on some research done on suicide and it was found that often the method used was linked to birth. e.g cord tight around neck (hanging), heavily drugged birth (drug overdose) etc. Here is a really good website on perinatal studies, pregnancy and birth memories: www.holistic.ie/amethyst/documents/suicide.htm We already know that a baby's hearing is fully developed at 18 weeks gestation so just imagine what they are listening in on, especially in the birth room and the horror birth stories being told. regards Diane Gardner Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Help! Someone started a discussion on my forums about birth and how it shapes the baby as an individual. Of course, everyone thought that concept was ludicrous, think studies and percentages are rubbish and must think I am a quack for thinking otherwise LOL J Can anyone else back me up?! I need some support!!! If you aren't signed up in my forums, please feel free to, or post here any suggestions or comments. http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=17144 Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
Diane, this is a wonderful website, thanks for sharing this. I'm writing a chapter on the fetal experience and the sequelae of what the fetus experiences and feels about it for a book on Birth Territory. What is explored and explained on this website is part of what I am writing about. It is very exciting that all this information is coming together. Dr Bruce Lipton's work on cells is amazing, as it Dr Candace Pert's work. Dr Frank Lake was a stunningly advanced and profound thinker, his ideas are extraordinary in the way he posits the maternal fetal distress syndrome and this is before the modern scanning devices which clearly demonstrate mind/body communication systems. Bruce Lipton's work can be accessed from his website www.brucelipton.com Two videos which are helpful in explaining quantum physics and our cellular life are what the bleep do we know? and The Secret. Both of which I recommend to anyone to buy and explore the ideas expressed in the videos and how the ideas translate to midwifery or doula practice. You can get the bleep from Amazon and The Secret from Nibbana on the net. www.amazon.com www.nibbana.com.au This is a very exciting time to be alive as we now have fantastic information at our fingertips. warmly, Carolyn - Original Message - From: Diane Gardner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality Hi Kelly I read an article earlier this year on some research done on suicide and it was found that often the method used was linked to birth. e.g cord tight around neck (hanging), heavily drugged birth (drug overdose) etc. Here is a really good website on perinatal studies, pregnancy and birth memories: www.holistic.ie/amethyst/documents/suicide.htm We already know that a baby's hearing is fully developed at 18 weeks gestation so just imagine what they are listening in on, especially in the birth room and the horror birth stories being told. regards Diane Gardner Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Help! Someone started a discussion on my forums about birth and how it shapes the baby as an individual. Of course, everyone thought that concept was ludicrous, think studies and percentages are rubbish and must think I am a quack for thinking otherwise LOL J Can anyone else back me up?! I need some support!!! If you aren't signed up in my forums, please feel free to, or post here any suggestions or comments. http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=17144 Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
forgot to mention another wonderful book The Field, by Lyn McTaggart warmly, Carolyn - Original Message - From: Diane Gardner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality Hi Kelly I read an article earlier this year on some research done on suicide and it was found that often the method used was linked to birth. e.g cord tight around neck (hanging), heavily drugged birth (drug overdose) etc. Here is a really good website on perinatal studies, pregnancy and birth memories: www.holistic.ie/amethyst/documents/suicide.htm We already know that a baby's hearing is fully developed at 18 weeks gestation so just imagine what they are listening in on, especially in the birth room and the horror birth stories being told. regards Diane Gardner Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Help! Someone started a discussion on my forums about birth and how it shapes the baby as an individual. Of course, everyone thought that concept was ludicrous, think studies and percentages are rubbish and must think I am a quack for thinking otherwise LOL J Can anyone else back me up?! I need some support!!! If you aren't signed up in my forums, please feel free to, or post here any suggestions or comments. http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=17144 Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
Thanks Suzi. I couldn't begin to imagine any regular school being concerned with how this information would affect a child. Regards Jayne - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality what an amazingteacher to acknowledge that - even though it should be 'basic commonsense'. Pinky - Original Message - From: suzi and brett To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality WhenI was being interviewed by a teacher prior to the placement of my 7 year old son in a new (for him)school it was such a welcome change that thequestions began atour pregnancy, she asked how it was and then the birth...where was it, was there drugs? trauma? was itin water or on land, with midwife?Then we moved on to other things, for how long did he breastfeed? how did he sleep, how was he when he woke in the morning? what is he afraid of?...it was such a joy that these things were considered important to who Noah is and how he maybe in a class room. I knew he was to be with the right teacher. Love Suz x
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
Hi Jayne, It is a Rudolph Steiner School - Chrysalis - (Thora NSW - near Bellingen Mid North coast), Cheers Suzi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
what an amazingteacher to acknowledge that - even though it should be 'basic commonsense'. Pinky - Original Message - From: suzi and brett To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality WhenI was being interviewed by a teacher prior to the placement of my 7 year old son in a new (for him)school it was such a welcome change that thequestions began atour pregnancy, she asked how it was and then the birth...where was it, was there drugs? trauma? was itin water or on land, with midwife?Then we moved on to other things, for how long did he breastfeed? how did he sleep, how was he when he woke in the morning? what is he afraid of?...it was such a joy that these things were considered important to who Noah is and how he maybe in a class room. I knew he was to be with the right teacher. Love Suz x
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
Hi Suz, Can I ask what school (or type of school) this was in? Regards Jayne - Original Message - From: suzi and brett To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality WhenI was being interviewed by a teacher prior to the placement of my 7 year old son in a new (for him)school it was such a welcome change that thequestions began atour pregnancy, she asked how it was and then the birth...where was it, was there drugs? trauma? was itin water or on land, with midwife?Then we moved on to other things, for how long did he breastfeed? how did he sleep, how was he when he woke in the morning? what is he afraid of?...it was such a joy that these things were considered important to who Noah is and how he maybe in a class room. I knew he was to be with the right teacher. Love Suz x
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
Hi Kelly,Have you heard of Michel Odent?He isfrench surgeon that became interested in birth, became an obstetricianand ended his career doing homebirths. He has done some excellent work on the effect of birth and has written a number of books. I remember him saying at a conference once that when he was overseas and wondered how safe a city was, he would look at the birth interference/intervention and that would give him a fair ideaas he'd found a correlation between birth interference and crime rates! Cheers Michelle"Kelly @ BellyBelly" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Help! Someone started a discussion on my forums about birth and how it shapes the baby as an individual. Of course, everyone thought that concept was ludicrous, think studies and percentages are rubbish and must think I am a quack for thinking otherwise LOL J Can anyone else back me up?! I need some support!!! If you arent signed up in my forums, please feel free to, or post here any suggestions or comments. http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=17144 Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
Michel Odent's Primal Research Centre has done a lot of work on the long term effects of birth on an individual. http://www.birthworks.org/primalhealth/ - Original Message - From: Michelle Windsor To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality Hi Kelly, Have you heard of Michel Odent?He isfrench surgeon that became interested in birth, became an obstetricianand ended his career doing homebirths. He has done some excellent work on the effect of birth and has written a number of books. I remember him saying at a conference once that when he was overseas and wondered how safe a city was, he would look at the birth interference/intervention and that would give him a fair ideaas he'd found a correlation between birth interference and crime rates! Cheers Michelle"Kelly @ BellyBelly" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Help! Someone started a discussion on my forums about birth and how it shapes the baby as an individual. Of course, everyone thought that concept was ludicrous, think studies and percentages are rubbish and must think I am a quack for thinking otherwise LOL J Can anyone else back me up?! I need some support!!! If you arent signed up in my forums, please feel free to, or post here any suggestions or comments. http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=17144 Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
Hi, I find www.birthpsychology.com excellent for this topic. You can also look at http://birthpsychology.org/and find good statements! Cheers, Lisette Geerdens - Original Message - From: Stephen Felicity To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality Michel Odent's Primal Research Centre has done a lot of work on the long term effects of birth on an individual. http://www.birthworks.org/primalhealth/ - Original Message - From: Michelle Windsor To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality Hi Kelly, Have you heard of Michel Odent?He isfrench surgeon that became interested in birth, became an obstetricianand ended his career doing homebirths. He has done some excellent work on the effect of birth and has written a number of books. I remember him saying at a conference once that when he was overseas and wondered how safe a city was, he would look at the birth interference/intervention and that would give him a fair ideaas he'd found a correlation between birth interference and crime rates! Cheers Michelle"Kelly @ BellyBelly" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Help! Someone started a discussion on my forums about birth and how it shapes the baby as an individual. Of course, everyone thought that concept was ludicrous, think studies and percentages are rubbish and must think I am a quack for thinking otherwise LOL J Can anyone else back me up?! I need some support!!! If you arent signed up in my forums, please feel free to, or post here any suggestions or comments. http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=17144 Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
[ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
Help! Someone started a discussion on my forums about birth and how it shapes the baby as an individual. Of course, everyone thought that concept was ludicrous, think studies and percentages are rubbish and must think I am a quack for thinking otherwise LOL J Can anyone else back me up?! I need some support!!! If you arent signed up in my forums, please feel free to, or post here any suggestions or comments. http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=17144 Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
Kelly I dont know of any definitive studies which can show that. The original work was done 60 yrs or more ago that showed the split was 40/60 for nature/nurture or was it the other way around? There have been arguments about it for generations. The area to look would probably be the behavioral scientists. The underlying belief of many people is that as you think, so you are. If that is rubbish to someone else, then they wont accept that they can influence or change anything. A very helpless place to be.(a greater majority of the population). I cant remember the author, but Babies Remember Birth might be helpful. It talks a lot of fact about babies foetal development. I am sure there are knowledgeable people on the list who can help. MM Help! Someone started a discussion on my forums about birth and how it shapes the baby as an individual. Of course, everyone thought that concept was ludicrous, think studies and percentages are rubbish and must think I am a quack for thinking otherwise LOL J Can anyone else back me up?! I need some support!!! If you arent signed up in my forums, please feel free to, or post here any suggestions or comments. http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=17144 Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth, Trauma Personality
I posted about this on a forum and got a similar response Kelly. Apparently, breastfeeding is important to ensure babe is secure, healthy, etc but birth is irrelevant ?! Babies are completely capable of feeling, thinking, seeing, hearing when they are born, therefore just as sensitive (probably much more so) to trauma than adults. Just as traumatic experiences can affect us, they too can affect the newborn in enormous ways thus shaping his or her personality. Also, you might like to point out that a traumatic birth affects both mother and baby. If a mother suffers PTSD and/or PND following her birth, she will possibly be unequipped to meet her own needs let alone her babies. The care needed to ensure baby's security and general wellbeing could be out the window. These days, weeks or months of 'existence' rather than nurturing are surely damaging to baby, and have a big impact on his or her personality. Therefore, even if it is in a less direct way, birth DOES shape the child! Here are a couple of articles you may like to check out. The latter article describes how a foetus's parents attitudes and feelings about the baby and birth affect the baby psychologically... therefore surely birth itself does too. 1) Premature birth affects personality- http://212.58.240.36/2/low/health/4747694.stm 2) The Mysteries of Prenatal Consiousness- http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/issues/sx-sbd2.htm Quote: When in our lives do we become human beings? Until recently scientists believed that the infant was a virtual blank and, following Freud's dictum, that only at two or three years of age could personality begin to form. Gradually, however, over the last fifty years investigators have begun to break through the ignorance, preconceptions, and lack of data surrounding the prenatal and infant states to reveal a very different picture of these early stages of life. This emerging view gives a broader perspective on human consciousness and the intimate connections among human beings, as well as new insights into the meaning and responsibilities of parenthood. Recent research on infants shows that even at birth the child has mastered many sophisticated physical and psychological skills (Descriptions of these findings appear in such books as Infant Culture by Jane and Joseph Jackson). It is increasingly clear that the infant develops these skills in the prenatal period. In The Secret Life of the Unborn Child (Thomas Verny, M.D), Dr.Verny reports that the unborn child is not the passive, mindless creature of the traditional pediatrics texts. We now know that the unborn child is an aware, reacting human being who from the sixth month on (and perhaps even earlier) leads an active emotional life. Along with this startling finding we have made these discoveries: The fetus can see, hear, experience, taste and, on a primitive level, even learn in utero . . . Most importantly, he can feel -- not with an adult's sophistication, but feel nonetheless. -- p. 12 The unborn's capacity for these activities can be seen in his physical development. At the sixteenth week of pregnancy, for example, the child becomes sensitive to light, though vision develops slowly in the dim, confined prenatal environment. By the fourth month he has developed basic reflexes and a repertoire of facial expressions. At five or six months he is as sensitive to touch as a newborn. From the 24th week on he hears all the time -- listening to the noises in his mother's body, and to voices, music, etc. Between 28 to 34 weeks his brain's neural circuits are as advanced as a newborn's and the cerebral cortex is mature enough to support consciousness; a few weeks later brain waves, including those of REM dreams, become distinct. Thus, throughout the third trimester he is equipped with most of the physiological capability of a newborn. Even more intriguing is evidence of the impact of the mother's and father's attitudes and feelings on their unborn child. Based on the findings of many other researchers as well as his own experience as a psychoanalyst, Dr. Verny presents evidence that the attitude of the mother toward the pregnancy and the child, as well as toward her partner, have a profound effect on the psychological development of the child and on the birth experience. Help! Someone started a discussion on my forums about birth and how it shapes the baby as an individual. Of course, everyone thought that concept was ludicrous, think studies and percentages are rubbish and must think I am a quack for thinking otherwise LOL :-) Can anyone else back me up?! I need some support!!! If you aren't signed up in my forums, please feel free to, or post here any suggestions or comments. Creator, http://www.bellybelly.com.au/ BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support BellyBelly Birth Support -
