RE: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells and placenta?!

[ajoynt]

Hi all.. I didn't get the original of this message, so I'll have to reply here.
There is a fantastic, easy to read article/ chapter in the book Normal
Childbirth: Evidence and Debate, ed. Soo Downe 2006, which dicusses these
issues, and is clearly in favour of delayed cord clamping. The chapter is
entitled Fetal to Neonatal Transition: First, Do No Harm. It is an excellent
read, and I recommend it to anyone interested in this topic.
Warm regards, Astra

Quoting Ken Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> . In mid training days the belief was that placental blood transfusion
> following birth would result in increased red blood cells in the baby
> thereby increasing jaundice levels.  There was also concern if the baby was
> above the placenta blood would drain from the baby back into it.
>   -Original Message-
>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kelly @ BellyBelly
>   Sent: Tuesday, 25 July 2006 5:48 PM
>   To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
>   Subject: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells and placenta?!
>
>
>   Has anyone ever heard of this?
>
>
>
>   "My midwife ended up saying as long as the baby is above the placenta;
> it's ok to let it stop pulsing naturally before clamping it. She said
> something about too many red (or white!) blood cells entering bubs if bub
> was below the placenta?"
>
>   Best Regards,
>
>   Kelly Zantey
>   Creator, BellyBelly.com.au
>   Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
>   BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
>
>
>



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Re: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells and placenta?!

[Diane Gardner]

How beautiful Jo, my point exactly and what a wonderful start to life.

Diane Gardner


- Original Message - 
From: "Jo Bourne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells and placenta?!


My 2 week old baby was born asleep and took a little while to decide to 
breathe, cry and open her eyes. It was one of the joys of birthing at home 
that she was able to wake up and breathe in her own time rather than being 
rubbed etc to prove she could cry straight away. Her cord kept pulsing 
longer than the entire (natural) 3rd stage of her older sisters birth, 
presumably because of her slow & gentle transition into wakefulness and 
breathing.


At 8:34 PM +1000 25/7/06, Diane Gardner wrote:

Imagine the poor baby who has suddenly had it's oxygen supply prematurely 
cut off and is forced to breathe to survive. I have seen some terrible 
instances of having to rub and jiggle babies to make then breathe or I 
have also seen babies that born peacefully, gently start to breathe, 
gradually getting stronger and the cord gradually slowing down and then 
after some time the cord stops pulsating and is then cut.


--
Jo Bourne
Virtual Artists Pty Ltd
--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.




--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

RE: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells and placenta?!

[Ken Ward]

Loved 
your reply, Dianne, and my thoughts exactly. Nature has designed us to survive, 
so why do we keep on interfering?  It's the same with the vit 
K.   Maureen

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kelly @ 
  BellyBellySent: Tuesday, 25 July 2006 5:48 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells 
  and placenta?!
  
  Has 
  anyone ever heard of this?
   
  “My 
  midwife ended up saying as long as the baby is above the placenta; it's ok to 
  let it stop pulsing naturally before clamping it. She said something about too 
  many red (or white!) blood cells entering bubs if bub was below the 
  placenta?”
  Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, 
  BellyBelly.com.au 
  Gentle 
  Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth 
  Support - 
  http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
   

RE: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells and placenta?!

[Christine Holliday]

There is some research that is quoted every now and again to support the
theory that delayed cord clamping results in raised SBR levels but this was a
study done when the mother had received a bolus of syntometrine (or syntocinon)
for third stage.  Sorry can’t
remember the name of this or where to get a copy of the study.

 

Christine

 

 

-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On
Behalf Of Diane Gardner
Sent: 25 July 2006 20:04
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Blood
cells and placenta?!

 

Here is
a site to go to that is very informative about cord clamping. www.cordclamp.com

 

There
is no reliable research that proves babies being more suseptible to jaundice if
they receive all their cord blood. Also the lower lobes of the lungs do
not inflate until after birth so extra blood is needed to do that
otherwise where is it taken from. Nature designed it perfectly. So are we
saying that nature was wrong in its design that has birthed babies for thousands
of years. Who has it wrong? I remember once that Dr Spock once had all the
answers too. Hmm

 

The
cord contains up to 150mls of blood, where do you think it was designed to go?
Whether the baby is inutero with the placenta at the top or the bottom or holding
the baby up or down after birth, the placenta still keeps pumping to the
baby.  I have felt pulsing cords with mumns sitting with their babies up
on their chests. Blood flows to and from the baby until it starts to breathe
then it becomes a one way operation not a two way one.

 

You
have to ask yourself why nature designed a cord that connects from a
mother to a baby until it breathes on its own and then when it's job becomes
defunct it stops supplying oxygen and blood,and the placenta then releases
from the uterus. How we have interferred in nature. When a cord is prematurely
clampled how is the signal that the baby is breathing on its own transmitted to
the placenta? BY AN INJECTION!! No wonder PPH often occurs after a
"perfect" birth because the placenta doesn't know its job
is completed, there is still pressure from the placenta to the clamp.

 

In the
cultures where the cord and placenta is left attached the cord is never
clamped. Eventually the cord just shrivels up and releases from the navel.

 

Imagine
the poor baby who has suddenly had it's oxygen supply prematurely cut off and
is forced to breathe to survive. I have seen some terrible instances of having
to rub and jiggle babies to make then breathe or I have
also seen babies that born peacefully, gently start to breathe, gradually
getting stronger and the cord gradually slowing down and then after some
time the cord stops pulsating and is then cut.

 

What
have we as this so called advanced society done.

 

Sorry
but this is a subject I feel very strongly about and Michel Odent has supported
this for more years than I can remember. I know medical science is needed in
some instances but not EVERY birth.

 

regards

Diane
Gardner

 



-
Original Message - 



From: Kelly @
BellyBelly 



To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006
6:49 PM

Subject: RE:
[ozmidwifery] Blood cells and placenta?!

 

So I can tell her that this is not a worry?

 

Best
Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly Birth
Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support









From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Ken Ward
Sent: Tuesday, 25 July 2006 6:33
PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Blood
cells and placenta?!

 

. In mid training days the belief was that placental blood
transfusion following birth would result in increased red blood cells in the
baby thereby increasing jaundice levels.  There was also concern if the
baby was above the placenta blood would drain from the baby back into it. 






-Original
Message-
From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Kelly @ BellyBelly
Sent: Tuesday, 25 July 2006 5:48
PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells
and placenta?!

Has anyone ever heard of this?

 

“My midwife ended up saying as long as the baby
is above the placenta; it's ok to let it stop pulsing naturally before clamping
it. She said something about too many red (or white!) blood cells entering bubs
if bub was below the placenta?”

Best
Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly Birth
Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support

 

Re: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells and placenta?!

[Jo Bourne]

My 2 week old baby was born asleep and took a little while to decide to 
breathe, cry and open her eyes. It was one of the joys of birthing at home that 
she was able to wake up and breathe in her own time rather than being rubbed 
etc to prove she could cry straight away. Her cord kept pulsing longer than the 
entire (natural) 3rd stage of her older sisters birth, presumably because of 
her slow & gentle transition into wakefulness and breathing.

At 8:34 PM +1000 25/7/06, Diane Gardner wrote:

>Imagine the poor baby who has suddenly had it's oxygen supply prematurely cut 
>off and is forced to breathe to survive. I have seen some terrible instances 
>of having to rub and jiggle babies to make then breathe or I have also seen 
>babies that born peacefully, gently start to breathe, gradually getting 
>stronger and the cord gradually slowing down and then after some time the cord 
>stops pulsating and is then cut.

-- 
Jo Bourne
Virtual Artists Pty Ltd
--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells and placenta?!

[Diane Gardner]

Here is a site to go to that is very informative 
about cord clamping. www.cordclamp.com
 
There is no reliable research that proves babies 
being more suseptible to jaundice if they receive all their cord blood. 
Also the lower lobes of the lungs do not inflate until after birth so 
extra blood is needed to do that otherwise where is it taken from. Nature 
designed it perfectly. So are we saying that nature was wrong in its design that 
has birthed babies for thousands of years. Who has it wrong? I remember 
once that Dr Spock once had all the answers too. Hmm
 
The cord contains up to 150mls of blood, where do 
you think it was designed to go? Whether the baby is inutero with the placenta 
at the top or the bottom or holding the baby up or down after birth, the 
placenta still keeps pumping to the baby.  I have felt pulsing cords with 
mumns sitting with their babies up on their chests. Blood flows to and from the 
baby until it starts to breathe then it becomes a one way operation not a two 
way one.
 
You have to ask yourself why nature designed a 
cord that connects from a mother to a baby until it breathes on its own and 
then when it's job becomes defunct it stops supplying oxygen and blood,and the 
placenta then releases from the uterus. How we have interferred in nature. 
When a cord is prematurely clampled how is the signal that the baby is breathing 
on its own transmitted to the placenta? BY AN INJECTION!! No wonder PPH often 
occurs after a "perfect" birth because the placenta doesn't know its 
job is completed, there is still pressure from the placenta to the 
clamp.
 
In the cultures where the cord and placenta is left 
attached the cord is never clamped. Eventually the cord just shrivels up and 
releases from the navel.
 
Imagine the poor baby who has suddenly had it's 
oxygen supply prematurely cut off and is forced to breathe to survive. I have 
seen some terrible instances of having to rub and jiggle babies to make then 
breathe or I have also seen babies that born peacefully, gently 
start to breathe, gradually getting stronger and the cord gradually slowing 
down and then after some time the cord stops pulsating and is then 
cut.
 
What have we as this so called advanced society 
done.
 
Sorry but this is a subject I feel very strongly 
about and Michel Odent has supported this for more years than I can remember. I 
know medical science is needed in some instances but not EVERY 
birth.
 
regards
Diane Gardner
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kelly @ 
  BellyBelly 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 6:49 
PM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells 
  and placenta?!
  
  
  So I can tell her 
  that this is not a worry?
   
  
  Best 
  Regards,Kelly 
  ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions 
  From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth 
  Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] 
  On Behalf Of Ken 
  WardSent: Tuesday, 25 July 
  2006 6:33 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells 
  and placenta?!
   
  
  . In mid training 
  days the belief was that placental blood transfusion following birth would 
  result in increased red blood cells in the baby thereby increasing jaundice 
  levels.  There was also concern if the baby was above the placenta blood 
  would drain from the baby back into it.  
  
  
-Original 
Message-From: 
owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Kelly @ 
BellyBellySent: Tuesday, 
25 July 2006 5:48 PMTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells and 
placenta?!
Has 
anyone ever heard of this?
 
“My 
midwife ended up saying as long as the baby is above the placenta; it's ok 
to let it stop pulsing naturally before clamping it. She said something 
about too many red (or white!) blood cells entering bubs if bub was below 
the placenta?”
Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, 
BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions 
From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth 
Support - 
http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells and placenta?!

[Kelly @ BellyBelly]

So I can tell her that this is not a worry?

 



Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly Birth Support
- http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support











From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Ken Ward
Sent: Tuesday, 25 July 2006 6:33
PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Blood
cells and placenta?!



 



. In mid training days the belief was that
placental blood transfusion following birth would result in increased red blood
cells in the baby thereby increasing jaundice levels.  There was also
concern if the baby was above the placenta blood would drain from the baby back
into it.  





-Original Message-
From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Kelly @ BellyBelly
Sent: Tuesday, 25 July 2006 5:48
PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells
and placenta?!

Has anyone
ever heard of this?

 

“My
midwife ended up saying as long as the baby is above the placenta; it's ok to
let it stop pulsing naturally before clamping it. She said something about too many
red (or white!) blood cells entering bubs if bub was below the placenta?”

Best
Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly Birth Support
- http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support

 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells and placenta?!

[Ken Ward]

. In 
mid training days the belief was that placental blood transfusion following 
birth would result in increased red blood cells in the baby thereby increasing 
jaundice levels.  There was also concern if the baby was above the placenta 
blood would drain from the baby back into it.  

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kelly @ 
  BellyBellySent: Tuesday, 25 July 2006 5:48 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Blood cells 
  and placenta?!
  
  Has 
  anyone ever heard of this?
   
  “My 
  midwife ended up saying as long as the baby is above the placenta; it's ok to 
  let it stop pulsing naturally before clamping it. She said something about too 
  many red (or white!) blood cells entering bubs if bub was below the 
  placenta?”
  Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, 
  BellyBelly.com.au 
  Gentle 
  Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth 
  Support - 
  http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
   

[ozmidwifery] Blood cells and placenta?!

[Kelly @ BellyBelly]

Has anyone
ever heard of this?

 

“My
midwife ended up saying as long as the baby is above the placenta; it's ok to
let it stop pulsing naturally before clamping it. She said something about too many
red (or white!) blood cells entering bubs if bub was below the placenta?”

Best
Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly Birth Support
- http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support