Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
hi Debbie, if shes anywhere near newcatle, tell her to go to Andrew Bisits at john hunter. he really is a lovely and respectful man and has strong points against the term breech trial that he explains to all women in written info. the MWs at jhh are also experienced and they catch the breech babies with dr bisits in attendance. (also im sure theres quite a few home birth MWs who are equally experienced and would take her on) its so sad to see day after day women going for caesars when the only indication is breech.. love emily --- Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwifes collection of breech turning info. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.html Attending a breech birth. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.html Turning a breech. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.html Book review on breech babies. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.asp Ina May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies! http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn babies in utero. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp A great site on moving breech babies. http://www.spinningbabies.com A Natural Breech Birth - hospital http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.html More than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these women!) http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htm About 500 birth stories with clear descriptions. http://www.breechbabies.com/hospital_breech.htm Here's our OFP thread on NP. http://www.forums.naturalparenting.com.au/showthread.php?t=4423highlight=optimal+foetal I wonder if I know at least one of those women? All love and strength to her. J __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
Or the women could just try saying 'NO' I don't consent to surgery, I will if needed, but not "just in case".. No consent, no surgery! Stay home with a capable MW for as long as possible then go to the hospital ?? I'm cross with the oBs (not that you can't tell !! Won't even give them a capital for their title !!!) BM - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwife’s collection of breech turning info.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.htmlAttending a breech birth.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.htmlTurning a breech.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.htmlBook review on breech babies.http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.aspIna May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies!http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn babies in utero.http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp A great site on moving breech babies.http://www.spinningbabies.comA Natural Breech Birth - hospitalhttp://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.htmlMore than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these women!)http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htmAbout 500 birth stories with clear descriptions.http://www.breechbabies.com/hospital_breech.htm Here's our OFP thread on NP.http://www.forums.naturalparenting.com.au/showthread.php?t=4423highlight=optimal+foetal I wonder if I know at least one of those women? All love and strength to her. J
Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
Yes Sally, far more reasonable answer, obviously not cranky like me !! - Original Message - From: Sally Westbury To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:02 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Hi Deb, This is a hard position to be in. The buck stops with how strong this woman is. No-one can do a C/S without her consent. If she wishes to be really stubborn, exert her rights and desire and be ready to have grumpy midwives and obs assisting her c/s then she simply waits for labour. Remind her that the medical/midwifery staff are there to provide her with a service, so dont be put off by this, just be prepared. In a system that is unsupportive and inexperienced with vaginal breech birth probably a C/S is gentler for her baby. A breech extraction is pretty much medically managed, usually with an episiotomy (which she may also refuse) added in staff who are very afraid the energy is very violent. On the other hand an amazing woman who had a c/s for breech with her first baby went on to have a VBAC breech. She had planned to have an elective c/s when labour had established. When it actually started she felt she could do it. Unexpectedly she met a fair obs at our tertiary hospital who said something along the lines of it is hospital policy and therefore I advise you to have a c/s BUT I am experienced with breech births. Sally Westbury Homebirth Midwife "Learn from mothers and babies; every one of them has a unique story to tell. Look for wisdom in the humblest places - that's usually where you'll find it." Lois Wilson
Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
I completely agree, Brenda. And I
think anger is reasonable response to women being refused the right to birth
their baby vaginally. Maybe if more women got angry and said no, it would stop
happening. But sObs just keep pushing the limits and no one stands up to them so
now they're starting to section automatically for posterior babies. Then what?
Next time that woman wants to give birth, if she goes to that surgeon, or even a
different one, she'll be damaged goods and have to have more surgery or be
induced because she can't "go over." I can't tell you how many women have asked
me for help this week alone. It's truly shocking how many women (and babies!)
are being denied the basic human right of vaginal birth. And it's truly shocking
how little consumers really seem to comprehend of how the system works and
actually believe their Obs when they tell them total crap.
OK I'm done too. For the
moment!
: )
J
- Original Message -
From:
brendamanning
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:39
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with
breach baby...told CS only options.
Or the women could just try
saying 'NO' I don't consent to surgery, I will if needed, but not "just
in case"..
No consent, no surgery!
Stay home with a capable MW for
as long as possible then go to the hospital ??
I'm cross with the oBs (not that
you can't tell !! Won't even give them a capital for their title
!!!)
BM
- Original Message -
From:
Janet
Fraser
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with
breach baby...told CS only options.
Hi Debbie,
oddly enough I too know 2 women
in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care
of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this
point.
There's an OB at JHH that deigns
to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I
can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I
also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers.
Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage.
I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem
to have been supplying on a daily basis this week.
One midwife’s collection of breech turning info.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.htmlAttending
a breech birth.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.htmlTurning
a breech.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.htmlBook
review on breech babies.http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.aspIna
May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies!http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp
Homeopathy to turn babies in utero.http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp
A great site on moving breech babies.http://www.spinningbabies.comA Natural
Breech Birth - hospitalhttp://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.htmlMore
than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these
women!)http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htmAbout
500 birth stories with clear descriptions.http://www.breechbabies.com/hospital_breech.htm
Here's our OFP thread on NP.http://www.forums.naturalparenting.com.au/showthread.php?t=4423highlight=optimal+foetal
I wonder if I know at least one
of those women?
All love and strength to
her.
J
RE: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
Ive had one question on my mind for quite some time - why is it said so often that delivering a breech is becoming a lost art? Is delivering a breech that complicated? Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:06 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. I completely agree, Brenda. And I think anger is reasonable response to women being refused the right to birth their baby vaginally. Maybe if more women got angry and said no, it would stop happening. But sObs just keep pushing the limits and no one stands up to them so now they're starting to section automatically for posterior babies. Then what? Next time that woman wants to give birth, if she goes to that surgeon, or even a different one, she'll be damaged goods and have to have more surgery or be induced because she can't go over. I can't tell you how many women have asked me for help this week alone. It's truly shocking how many women (and babies!) are being denied the basic human right of vaginal birth. And it's truly shocking how little consumers really seem to comprehend of how the system works and actually believe their Obs when they tell them total crap. OK I'm done too. For the moment! : ) J - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Or the women could just try saying 'NO' I don't consent to surgery, I will if needed, but not just in case.. No consent, no surgery! Stay home with a capable MW for as long as possible then go to the hospital ?? I'm cross with the oBs (not that you can't tell !! Won't even give them a capital for their title !!!) BM - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwifes collection of breech turning info. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.html Attending a breech birth. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.html Turning a breech. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.html Book review on breech babies. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.asp Ina May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies! http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn babies in utero. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp A great site on moving breech babies. http://www.spinningbabies.com A Natural Breech Birth - hospital http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.html More than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these women!) http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htm About 500 birth stories with clear descriptions. http://www.breechbabies.com/hospital_breech.htm Here's our OFP thread on NP. http://www.forums.naturalparenting.com.au/showthread.php?t=4423highlight=optimal+foetal I wonder if I know at least one of those women? All love and strength to her. J
RE: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
What I meant was: Is delivering a breech that complicated that it can be called art? From: Vedrana Valčić Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:48 PM To: 'ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au' Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Ive had one question on my mind for quite some time - why is it said so often that delivering a breech is becoming a lost art? Is delivering a breech that complicated? Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:06 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. I completely agree, Brenda. And I think anger is reasonable response to women being refused the right to birth their baby vaginally. Maybe if more women got angry and said no, it would stop happening. But sObs just keep pushing the limits and no one stands up to them so now they're starting to section automatically for posterior babies. Then what? Next time that woman wants to give birth, if she goes to that surgeon, or even a different one, she'll be damaged goods and have to have more surgery or be induced because she can't go over. I can't tell you how many women have asked me for help this week alone. It's truly shocking how many women (and babies!) are being denied the basic human right of vaginal birth. And it's truly shocking how little consumers really seem to comprehend of how the system works and actually believe their Obs when they tell them total crap. OK I'm done too. For the moment! : ) J - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Or the women could just try saying 'NO' I don't consent to surgery, I will if needed, but not just in case.. No consent, no surgery! Stay home with a capable MW for as long as possible then go to the hospital ?? I'm cross with the oBs (not that you can't tell !! Won't even give them a capital for their title !!!) BM - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwifes collection of breech turning info. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.html Attending a breech birth. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.html Turning a breech. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.html Book review on breech babies. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.asp Ina May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies! http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn babies in utero. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp A great site on moving breech babies. http://www.spinningbabies.com A Natural Breech Birth - hospital http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.html More than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these women!) http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htm About 500 birth stories with clear descriptions. http://www.breechbabies.com/hospital_breech.htm Here's our OFP thread on NP. http://www.forums.naturalparenting.com.au/showthread.php?t=4423highlight=optimal+foetal I wonder if I know at least one of those women? All love and strength to her. J
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
Janet, I'M glad I'm not the only one who feels really angry when pregnant women are repeatedly told what to do as if they don't have a brain to think or seek out info for themselves. I do sometimes (not always) agree with that analogy of the spelling/definition of: Obstetrician = Obstruction ( just a few letters difference make sense don't they?) Anyway, I am prepared to be really pro-active and state here that any women who want help to obtain information about breech birth or if I can help facilitate a breech birth (at home or in hospital) feel free to please contact me I'll do my best to help. Brenda Manning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I completely agree, Brenda. And I think anger is reasonable response to women being refused the right to birth their baby vaginally. Maybe if more women got angry and said no, it would stop happening. But sObs just keep pushing the limits and no one stands up to them so now they're starting to section automatically for posterior babies. Then what? Next time that woman wants to give birth, if she goes to that surgeon, or even a different one, she'll be damaged goods and have to have more surgery or be induced because she can't go over. I can't tell you how many women have asked me for help this week alone. It's truly shocking how many women (and babies!) are being denied the basic human right of vaginal birth. And it's truly shocking how little consumers really seem to comprehend of how the system works and actually believe their Obs when they tell them total crap. OK I'm done too. For the moment! : ) J - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Or the women could just try saying 'NO' I don't consent to surgery, I will if needed, but not just in case.. No consent, no surgery! Stay home with a capable MW for as long as possible then go to the hospital ?? I'm cross with the oBs (not that you can't tell !! Won't even give them a capital for their title !!!) BM - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwifes collection of breech turning info. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.html Attending a breech birth. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.html Turning a breech. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.html Book review on breech babies. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.asp Ina May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies! http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn babies in utero. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp A great site on moving breech babies. http://www.spinningbabies.com A Natural Breech Birth - hospital http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.html More than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these women!) http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htm About 500 birth stories with clear descriptions. http://www.breechbabies.com/hospital_breech.htm Here's our OFP thread on NP. http://www.forums.naturalparenting.com.au/showthread.php?t=4423highlight =optimal+foetal I wonder if I know at least one of those women? All love and strength to her. J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
The word obstetrician is actually derived from the Greek word for midwife obstetrix. It means to stand in front of so it actually is derived from the same root as obstruct, obfuscate, obliterate, etc. Doesn't really have a connotation of right/wrong, good/bad, per se. I often think we all need to get out from in front of the woman and turn our backs toward her so we can protect her space while she gives birth perfectly fine. Apparently in elephant communities the older females surround the birthing female with their trunks pointing away from her and their large grey bums form a protective, encircling wall. That elephant mother-to-be has to push out a lot bigger baby than any human mother will ever birth. Their senior matriarchs have complete faith in their ability. Gloria Lemay - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:05 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Janet, I'M glad I'm not the only one who feels really angry when pregnant women are repeatedly told what to do as if they don't have a brain to think or seek out info for themselves. I do sometimes (not always) agree with that analogy of the spelling/definition of: Obstetrician = Obstruction ( just a few letters difference make sense don't they?) Anyway, I am prepared to be really pro-active and state here that any women who want help to obtain information about breech birth or if I can help facilitate a breech birth (at home or in hospital) feel free to please contact me I'll do my best to help. Brenda Manning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I completely agree, Brenda. And I think anger is reasonable response to women being refused the right to birth their baby vaginally. Maybe if more women got angry and said no, it would stop happening. But sObs just keep pushing the limits and no one stands up to them so now they're starting to section automatically for posterior babies. Then what? Next time that woman wants to give birth, if she goes to that surgeon, or even a different one, she'll be damaged goods and have to have more surgery or be induced because she can't go over. I can't tell you how many women have asked me for help this week alone. It's truly shocking how many women (and babies!) are being denied the basic human right of vaginal birth. And it's truly shocking how little consumers really seem to comprehend of how the system works and actually believe their Obs when they tell them total crap. OK I'm done too. For the moment! : ) J - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Or the women could just try saying 'NO' I don't consent to surgery, I will if needed, but not just in case.. No consent, no surgery! Stay home with a capable MW for as long as possible then go to the hospital ?? I'm cross with the oBs (not that you can't tell !! Won't even give them a capital for their title !!!) BM - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwife's collection of breech turning info. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.html Attending a breech birth. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.html Turning a breech. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.html Book review on breech babies. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.asp Ina May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies! http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn babies in utero. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp A great site on moving breech babies. http://www.spinningbabies.com A Natural Breech Birth - hospital http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.html More than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these women!) http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htm About 500 birth stories with clear descriptions
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
I have also seen cattle do this!! Sonja - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 5:34 AM Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. The word obstetrician is actually derived from the Greek word for midwife obstetrix. It means to stand in front of so it actually is derived from the same root as obstruct, obfuscate, obliterate, etc. Doesn't really have a connotation of right/wrong, good/bad, per se. I often think we all need to get out from in front of the woman and turn our backs toward her so we can protect her space while she gives birth perfectly fine. Apparently in elephant communities the older females surround the birthing female with their trunks pointing away from her and their large grey bums form a protective, encircling wall. That elephant mother-to-be has to push out a lot bigger baby than any human mother will ever birth. Their senior matriarchs have complete faith in their ability. Gloria Lemay - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:05 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Janet, I'M glad I'm not the only one who feels really angry when pregnant women are repeatedly told what to do as if they don't have a brain to think or seek out info for themselves. I do sometimes (not always) agree with that analogy of the spelling/definition of: Obstetrician = Obstruction ( just a few letters difference make sense don't they?) Anyway, I am prepared to be really pro-active and state here that any women who want help to obtain information about breech birth or if I can help facilitate a breech birth (at home or in hospital) feel free to please contact me I'll do my best to help. Brenda Manning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I completely agree, Brenda. And I think anger is reasonable response to women being refused the right to birth their baby vaginally. Maybe if more women got angry and said no, it would stop happening. But sObs just keep pushing the limits and no one stands up to them so now they're starting to section automatically for posterior babies. Then what? Next time that woman wants to give birth, if she goes to that surgeon, or even a different one, she'll be damaged goods and have to have more surgery or be induced because she can't go over. I can't tell you how many women have asked me for help this week alone. It's truly shocking how many women (and babies!) are being denied the basic human right of vaginal birth. And it's truly shocking how little consumers really seem to comprehend of how the system works and actually believe their Obs when they tell them total crap. OK I'm done too. For the moment! : ) J - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Or the women could just try saying 'NO' I don't consent to surgery, I will if needed, but not just in case.. No consent, no surgery! Stay home with a capable MW for as long as possible then go to the hospital ?? I'm cross with the oBs (not that you can't tell !! Won't even give them a capital for their title !!!) BM - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwife's collection of breech turning info. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.html Attending a breech birth. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.html Turning a breech. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.html Book review on breech babies. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.asp Ina May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies! http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn
Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
thanks for this Janet. It's a keeper. I, too, have inquiries every other day re breech and esp breech with VBAC. Yesterday I heard from someone who is looking for someone to catch VBAC twins who are both breechsheeesh, what kind of luck is that? The woman refuses to have another section. Gloria - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwife’s collection of breech turning info.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.htmlAttending a breech birth.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.htmlTurning a breech.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.htmlBook review on breech babies.http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.aspIna May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies!http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn babies in utero.http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp A great site on moving breech babies.http://www.spinningbabies.comA Natural Breech Birth - hospitalhttp://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.htmlMore than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these women!)http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htmAbout 500 birth stories with clear descriptions.http://www.breechbabies.com/hospital_breech.htm Here's our OFP thread on NP.http://www.forums.naturalparenting.com.au/showthread.php?t=4423highlight=optimal+foetal I wonder if I know at least one of those women? All love and strength to her. J
[ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
(i am a mum who had a home birth 3 yrs ago) Girls i would love some of your wisdom My friend is full term today and she has been carrying her baby in breach for the last part of the pregnancy. All along the Doctors have been telling her to book a CSin fact their manner was quite demanding and accusing of abuse! My friend is a very grounded woman (28yrs) and wishes for a natural birth. She has been told that the baby will not turn. She has been told it is too dangerous to deliver breach as the cord can get caught in the birth canal if the shoulders are out and the babies head is in. And that if the chin is up it may suffocate. And they will not deliver breach. Times have definitely changed. She requested theCS once contractions start to ensure the baby is ready. She has been advised that the baby is too big andCS must be monday. (another friend of mine was told the same thingbaby too big, already over 9lb, must have CS.she naturally delivered a 7.5lb healthy girl) I guess i would love any ideas, thoughts, suggestions, solutions, options from you wise gals. They have booked her CS for monday (NSW central coast) deb x
Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwife’s collection of breech turning info.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.htmlAttending a breech birth.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.htmlTurning a breech.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.htmlBook review on breech babies.http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.aspIna May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies!http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn babies in utero.http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp A great site on moving breech babies.http://www.spinningbabies.comA Natural Breech Birth - hospitalhttp://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.htmlMore than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these women!)http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htmAbout 500 birth stories with clear descriptions.http://www.breechbabies.com/hospital_breech.htm Here's our OFP thread on NP.http://www.forums.naturalparenting.com.au/showthread.php?t=4423highlight=optimal+foetal I wonder if I know at least one of those women? All love and strength to her. J
RE: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
Hi Deb, This is a hard position to be in. The buck stops with how strong this woman is. No-one can do a C/S without her consent. If she wishes to be really stubborn, exert her rights and desire and be ready to have grumpy midwives and obs assisting her c/s then she simply waits for labour. Remind her that the medical/midwifery staff are there to provide her with a service, so dont be put off by this, just be prepared. In a system that is unsupportive and inexperienced with vaginal breech birth probably a C/S is gentler for her baby. A breech extraction is pretty much medically managed, usually with an episiotomy (which she may also refuse) added in staff who are very afraid the energy is very violent. On the other hand an amazing woman who had a c/s for breech with her first baby went on to have a VBAC breech. She had planned to have an elective c/s when labour had established. When it actually started she felt she could do it. Unexpectedly she met a fair obs at our tertiary hospital who said something along the lines of it is hospital policy and therefore I advise you to have a c/s BUT I am experienced with breech births. Sally Westbury Homebirth Midwife Learn from mothers and babies; every one of them has a unique story to tell. Look for wisdom in the humblest places - that's usually where you'll find it. Lois Wilson
Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
thanks Janeti will be dropping round to her place to see her. i will print off this email and give it to herso she can make her own informed choice. deb x Deb FieldCreative Coaching0412 263 939[EMAIL PROTECTED]changing lives beyond belief - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwife’s collection of breech turning info.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.htmlAttending a breech birth.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.htmlTurning a breech.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.htmlBook review on breech babies.http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.aspIna May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies!http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn babies in utero.http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp A great site on moving breech babies.http://www.spinningbabies.comA Natural Breech Birth - hospitalhttp://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.htmlMore than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these women!)http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htmAbout 500 birth stories with clear descriptions.http://www.breechbabies.com/hospital_breech.htm Here's our OFP thread on NP.http://www.forums.naturalparenting.com.au/showthread.php?t=4423highlight=optimal+foetal I wonder if I know at least one of those women? All love and strength to her. J
Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
Hi Debbie Your friend may be interested in Maggie Banks web page. She is a NZ midwife specialising in breech birth. http://www.birthspirit.co.nz/index.php Also go to the RANZCOG (Royal Australian New Zealand College of Obs Gyn) web page and check the position statements CObs -1 and C Obs -11. See link below. The College of O G's do not rule out vag breech birth (see C 0bs 11)and there is also a statement about the responsibilities of OG's. Best to use this info wisely. http://www.ranzcog.edu.au/publications/collegestatements.shtml Best wishes Jenny Jennifer Cameron FRCNA FACMPO Box 1465Howard Springs NT 0835 0419 528 717 - Original Message - From: Debbie Field To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. (i am a mum who had a home birth 3 yrs ago) Girls i would love some of your wisdom My friend is full term today and she has been carrying her baby in breach for the last part of the pregnancy. All along the Doctors have been telling her to book a CSin fact their manner was quite demanding and accusing of abuse! My friend is a very grounded woman (28yrs) and wishes for a natural birth. She has been told that the baby will not turn. She has been told it is too dangerous to deliver breach as the cord can get caught in the birth canal if the shoulders are out and the babies head is in. And that if the chin is up it may suffocate. And they will not deliver breach. Times have definitely changed. She requested theCS once contractions start to ensure the baby is ready. She has been advised that the baby is too big andCS must be monday. (another friend of mine was told the same thingbaby too big, already over 9lb, must have CS.she naturally delivered a 7.5lb healthy girl) I guess i would love any ideas, thoughts, suggestions, solutions, options from you wise gals. They have booked her CS for monday (NSW central coast) deb x Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.7/70 - Release Date: 11/08/2005
