Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Nicole Carver wrote: Hi All, Have just had a scary experience when a baby became floppy and stopped breathing three timesafter the Hep B vaccine. She is ok, but being observed for 24 hours in special care. It just reinforces my belief that giving all babies Hep B prior to discharge from hospital is unnecessary, and where there are no risk factors present, more dangerous than not giving it. Nicole Carver. Hi Nicole - just make sure you document that in the adverse vaccination reaction section at the bottom of the vaccination card for the baby... Is there something to fill in for pharmacy, too? I am sure there is a lot of paperwork to fill out for that kind of thing. Just to make sure it gets into the stats for the 'safety of Hep B vax'. Scary. Jo (RM)
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Yes Jo, it is important this is reported. It is so easy to get caught up with other things on a busy unit, and it gets forgotten. Thanks, Nicole. - Original Message - From: JoFromOz To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Nicole Carver wrote: Hi All, Have just had a scary experience when a baby became floppy and stopped breathing three timesafter the Hep B vaccine. She is ok, but being observed for 24 hours in special care. It just reinforces my belief that giving all babies Hep B prior to discharge from hospital is unnecessary, and where there are no risk factors present, more dangerous than not giving it. Nicole Carver.Hi Nicole - just make sure you document that in the adverse vaccination reaction section at the bottom of the vaccination card for the baby... Is there something to fill in for pharmacy, too? I am sure there is a lot of paperwork to fill out for that kind of thing. Just to make sure it gets into the stats for the 'safety of Hep B vax'.Scary.Jo (RM)
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Thanks, Nicole. Pinky - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hi Pinky , I may be able to answer some of your questions. I have studied immunisation, and was an immunisation provider for about ten years. I have become concerned about the willingness of our government to introduce new vaccinations to the schedule, particularly since the introduction of the second MMR prior to the commencement of primary school. This Hep B vaccination at birth seems over the top, and I personally wonder at the relationship between governments and commercial vaccination manufacturers. I may be paranoid. My children are vaccinated. However, I have grown to respect people who make a carefully considered decision not to do so. I think if I had my time over again, I would still vaccinate, but there would be some vaccines that I would refuse eg Sabin. I don't believe parents are asked about previous vaccine reactions in other family members. The health department advice on this one is I believe that other family members are not at any greater risk. The idea of putting a foreign substance into a new baby is also quite a concern to me. I have had someone tell me the birth dose of Hep B is important, because the Mast cells are permanently altered by giving it, so immunity is forever. I was floored by this, and wondered whether I was wrong. But later I thought, why Hep B then, why not measles or some other vaccine? I have found from experience that these nurses usually just repeat the party line. Some can be a bit aggressive when questioned! (Of course I never was!) But it would be a very difficult job to do if you had any doubts in your mind. Vaccines are given to well babies, and premmies, I think just before discharge. I think it is often up to the judgement of the midwife or nurse looking after the baby. The vaccination clinic is mainly for babies or infants with allergic type reactions, or known allergies to egg in the case of MMR. Localised reactions are seen as normal, unless severe. I have only seen two serious reactions in my time, which is now reaching twenty years. Best wishes, Nicole. - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 3:39 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hi Nicole and lisa, Are any questions asked re family history of allergies/ vaccine reactions before giving the shots? My own first baby (now 30)had a similar reaction to his first triple antigen (the first vaccine in those days), my mother had a collapse after a tetanus shot requiring an ambulance and adrenalin and my second child as a teenager who had cut his hand on a rusty piece of iron was taken by his bossfor a tetanus shot - the following dayhecollapsed/ stopped breathing and ended up in hospital being resuscitated -this was recorded as a vaccine reaction. My younger children are unvaccinated depite much pressure/ school formsand even a huge dressing down from a GP who called me negligent and ignorant. At a talk last year (at a midwifery conference in SA) by a govt person on the 'logic' of vaccinating, her reasoning was as you mentioned that some babies of carriers - in the US!! she said- had slipped through and not been vaccinated at birth. Apparently "some of these women sued!!" I find this very flimsy and fearfulreasoning to give vaccinations to a pure little newborn - surely this is occasion for parents to take personal responsibility - you would know if you were a carrier and so would your carers as it would be on your records. Why should womenwho aren't carriers be pressured to expose their babies to unnecessary risks? Especially since babies are not going to be engaging in risky behaviour! As I researched after my own children's reactions I became very cynical that much of this pressure is driven by $$$ -ifas you say, if the 2 month vaccination will fully cover a baby (if it is the parent's choice to vaccinate) surely the shot at birth for all babies is overkill? Sounds like that could have been literally, Nicole- it must have been a terrible shock for you and the parents. I really feel for you about being anxious to inject more babies - how do you deal with this in your workplace? So Im wondering - are parents asked about family history of allergies/ reactions to vaccines? Are vaccines given to well babies? when are they given to premmies? Babies who have had any health problems/ respiratorydifficulti
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
I too have trouble with the hep B vaccine. I give parents accurate and unbiased information (instead of the propaganda given them in the pamphlets) and also encourage them to take the decision as an important one, and talk about VISA etc. Although, I have to say I am not pushy in this, and those parents who have made up their minds, I give the vaccine without much further information given. I try always to present it as a choice that needs to be informed. What I've heard, but don't remember where from, was that the birth and early vaccination is, like Emily said, a way of "getting to" all babies while they're in hospital, i.e. a control mechanism, like the breast check and pap smear questions in pregnancy - while we've got them, lets knock these other things off the list. As if women aren't able to maintain their own health. Anyway, I thought too that it was all in order to have a population of teenagers and adults (in15 years time) who are immune to hep B. I think it hasn't much to do with the risk of hep B in newborns at all (in fact almost non-existant surely). And even with this as the wanted outcome, I heard also (wish I could remember a source for this) that these teenagers are likely to need a booster anyway, as the early childhood ones won't last. Why then do they not just immunise the teenagers in the first place? I too am sceptical and wonder about money-making for the drug companies. Liz - Original Message - From: JoFromOz To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Nicole Carver wrote: Hi All, Have just had a scary experience when a baby became floppy and stopped breathing three timesafter the Hep B vaccine. She is ok, but being observed for 24 hours in special care. It just reinforces my belief that giving all babies Hep B prior to discharge from hospital is unnecessary, and where there are no risk factors present, more dangerous than not giving it. Nicole Carver.Hi Nicole - just make sure you document that in the adverse vaccination reaction section at the bottom of the vaccination card for the baby... Is there something to fill in for pharmacy, too? I am sure there is a lot of paperwork to fill out for that kind of thing. Just to make sure it gets into the stats for the 'safety of Hep B vax'.Scary.Jo (RM) Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.1.0 - Release Date: 18/02/05 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.1.0 - Release Date: 18/02/05
[ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Hi All, Have just had a scary experience when a baby became floppy and stopped breathing three timesafter the Hep B vaccine. She is ok, but being observed for 24 hours in special care. It just reinforces my belief that giving all babies Hep B prior to discharge from hospital is unnecessary, and where there are no risk factors present, more dangerous than not giving it. Nicole Carver.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Hello everyone. I'm fairly new to Australia, (from the Uk) but have been an avid follower of this site for some time now. And, by way of an introduction..and as a first post I feel compelled to ask about this vaccineby my nature, I havnt vaccinated my kids...but as far as this particular vaccine is concernedwhy is it given routinely?? I ask, because I thought that hep B was passed on by blood and sex..(to be crude)...what infant is genuinely at risk of this?? If a baby has a reaction like this...(hope she is ok!!) does that mean she is contraindicated for future vaccines?? Many thanks, lisa Perth - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmid ; Maternity Coalition Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 7:48 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hi All, Have just had a scary experience when a baby became floppy and stopped breathing three timesafter the Hep B vaccine. She is ok, but being observed for 24 hours in special care. It just reinforces my belief that giving all babies Hep B prior to discharge from hospital is unnecessary, and where there are no risk factors present, more dangerous than not giving it. Nicole Carver.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Hi Lisa, Welcome to Australia! Hepatitis B vaccine has been given routinely at birth now for maybe five years. One of the most common causes of Hepatitis B is contracting it from your mother at birth, if she is a carrier.I believe the practice of Hep B vaccination at birth came aboutbecause there were cases of babies of known Hep B carriers who did not receive immunoglobulin and vaccination at birth, also because the conversion to Hep B carrier status is very high if you contract the disease in infancy. When universal hep B administration came in, most midwives were not happy, but it was still introduced. The doctors order it andthe parents are given an information sheet to read, which I believe does not give the whole picture (including that if the birth dose is not given, the baby still gets a full course by having Hep B vax at 2,4, and 12 months of age). Parents sign a consent form, and then the vaccine is given if they wish to proceed. I like to give the parents the risk factors for contracting Hep B, and the information about the normal immunisation schedule, and let them decide. All the women have their Hep B and Cstatus checked antenatally, and are likely to know if they are a carrier. Many ask what the majority of parents do and are guided by that. Most parents at this stage are going ahead with it. While I can't prove that the incident I experienced tonight was caused by the vaccine, it only occured at the most 10 minutes after the vaccine. I don't know if the baby is contraindicated for further vaccines, but would be very careful. It probably should be done at the Royal Childrens Hospital where they have a specialised clinic for babies who have had vaccine reactions.I am not sure how I will be able to give the vaccine to another baby after that experience. Kind regards, Nicole. - Original Message - From: lisa chalmers To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 11:27 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hello everyone. I'm fairly new to Australia, (from the Uk) but have been an avid follower of this site for some time now. And, by way of an introduction..and as a first post I feel compelled to ask about this vaccineby my nature, I havnt vaccinated my kids...but as far as this particular vaccine is concernedwhy is it given routinely?? I ask, because I thought that hep B was passed on by blood and sex..(to be crude)...what infant is genuinely at risk of this?? If a baby has a reaction like this...(hope she is ok!!) does that mean she is contraindicated for future vaccines?? Many thanks, lisa Perth - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmid ; Maternity Coalition Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 7:48 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hi All, Have just had a scary experience when a baby became floppy and stopped breathing three timesafter the Hep B vaccine. She is ok, but being observed for 24 hours in special care. It just reinforces my belief that giving all babies Hep B prior to discharge from hospital is unnecessary, and where there are no risk factors present, more dangerous than not giving it. Nicole Carver.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Thats really interesting Nicole, thankyou! Coming from the uk, I know my case,,and can state it..but being here I have found a high uptake off vaccinations amongst babies and children..and have already had to sign all sorts to get my children into school. I do believe in parents making informed decisions..but often found the info available is biased..(in both directions!) As a midwife...if your beliefs were suchcould you refuse to vaccinate babies? And to clarify for me... if a mother is not carrying hep B...how would a baby contact it?Through a blood transfusion? Do you have to report reactions like that? Hope you dont mind me asking,.. lisax - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hi Lisa, Welcome to Australia! Hepatitis B vaccine has been given routinely at birth now for maybe five years. One of the most common causes of Hepatitis B is contracting it from your mother at birth, if she is a carrier.I believe the practice of Hep B vaccination at birth came aboutbecause there were cases of babies of known Hep B carriers who did not receive immunoglobulin and vaccination at birth, also because the conversion to Hep B carrier status is very high if you contract the disease in infancy. When universal hep B administration came in, most midwives were not happy, but it was still introduced. The doctors order it andthe parents are given an information sheet to read, which I believe does not give the whole picture (including that if the birth dose is not given, the baby still gets a full course by having Hep B vax at 2,4, and 12 months of age). Parents sign a consent form, and then the vaccine is given if they wish to proceed. I like to give the parents the risk factors for contracting Hep B, and the information about the normal immunisation schedule, and let them decide. All the women have their Hep B and Cstatus checked antenatally, and are likely to know if they are a carrier. Many ask what the majority of parents do and are guided by that. Most parents at this stage are going ahead with it. While I can't prove that the incident I experienced tonight was caused by the vaccine, it only occured at the most 10 minutes after the vaccine. I don't know if the baby is contraindicated for further vaccines, but would be very careful. It probably should be done at the Royal Childrens Hospital where they have a specialised clinic for babies who have had vaccine reactions.I am not sure how I will be able to give the vaccine to another baby after that experience. Kind regards, Nicole. - Original Message - From: lisa chalmers To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 11:27 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hello everyone. I'm fairly new to Australia, (from the Uk) but have been an avid follower of this site for some time now. And, by way of an introduction..and as a first post I feel compelled to ask about this vaccineby my nature, I havnt vaccinated my kids...but as far as this particular vaccine is concernedwhy is it given routinely?? I ask, because I thought that hep B was passed on by blood and sex..(to be crude)...what infant is genuinely at risk of this?? If a baby has a reaction like this...(hope she is ok!!) does that mean she is contraindicated for future vaccines?? Many thanks, lisa Perth - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmid ; Maternity Coalition Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 7:48 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hi All, Have just had a scary experience when a baby became floppy and stopped breathing three timesafter the Hep B vaccine. She is ok, but being observed for 24 hours in special care. It just reinforces my belief that giving all babies Hep B prior to discharge from hospital is unnecessary, and where there are no risk factors present, more dangerous than not giving it. Nicole Carver.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Hi Lisa and Nicole, Like you, I have serious concerns about giving Hep B at such an early age. I believe we areplacing a very heavy insult on a baby's natural immune system. I asked this question of an Immunisation Nurse who was a speaker at a seminar I went to and she said that most cases of Hep B with babies are contracted from staff! I'm also concerned that parents are not given enough information on the pros and cons of this first immunisation as, almost without exception, they sign the permission form. I certainly find that babies are very often upset and crying the night after it is given (I work night shift and often spend many hours walking the baby in a sling when mum is too tired to cope any longer). Certainly, if it is to be given I think it is preferable to give it later in the stay in hospital, not immediately after birth together with the Konakion - another injection that parents never seem to refuse. Joy Joy Cocks RN (Div 1) RM CBE IBCLCemail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: lisa chalmers To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 0:33 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Thats really interesting Nicole, thankyou! Coming from the uk, I know my case,,and can state it..but being here I have found a high uptake off vaccinations amongst babies and children..and have already had to sign all sorts to get my children into school. I do believe in parents making informed decisions..but often found the info available is biased..(in both directions!) As a midwife...if your beliefs were suchcould you refuse to vaccinate babies? And to clarify for me... if a mother is not carrying hep B...how would a baby contact it?Through a blood transfusion? Do you have to report reactions like that? Hope you dont mind me asking,.. lisax - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hi Lisa, Welcome to Australia! Hepatitis B vaccine has been given routinely at birth now for maybe five years. One of the most common causes of Hepatitis B is contracting it from your mother at birth, if she is a carrier.I believe the practice of Hep B vaccination at birth came aboutbecause there were cases of babies of known Hep B carriers who did not receive immunoglobulin and vaccination at birth, also because the conversion to Hep B carrier status is very high if you contract the disease in infancy. When universal hep B administration came in, most midwives were not happy, but it was still introduced. The doctors order it andthe parents are given an information sheet to read, which I believe does not give the whole picture (including that if the birth dose is not given, the baby still gets a full course by having Hep B vax at 2,4, and 12 months of age). Parents sign a consent form, and then the vaccine is given if they wish to proceed. I like to give the parents the risk factors for contracting Hep B, and the information about the normal immunisation schedule, and let them decide. All the women have their Hep B and Cstatus checked antenatally, and are likely to know if they are a carrier. Many ask what the majority of parents do and are guided by that. Most parents at this stage are going ahead with it. While I can't prove that the incident I experienced tonight was caused by the vaccine, it only occured at the most 10 minutes after the vaccine. I don't know if the baby is contraindicated for further vaccines, but would be very careful. It probably should be done at the Royal Childrens Hospital where they have a specialised clinic for babies who have had vaccine reactions.I am not sure how I will be able to give the vaccine to another baby after that experience. Kind regards, Nicole. - Original Message - From: lisa chalmers To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 11:27 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hello everyone. I'm fairly new to Australia, (from the Uk) but have been an avid follower of this site for some time now. And, by way of an introduction..and as a first post I feel compelled to ask about this vaccineby my nature, I havnt vaccinated my kids...but as far as this particular vaccine is concernedwhy is it given routinely?? I ask, because I thought that hep B was passed on by blood and sex..(to be crude)...what infant is genuinely at risk of this?? If a baby has a reaction like this...(hope she is ok!!) does
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Hi Nicole and lisa,
Are any questions asked re family history of
allergies/ vaccine reactions before giving the shots?
My own first baby (now 30)had a similar reaction to
his first triple antigen (the first vaccine in those days), my mother had a
collapse after a tetanus shot requiring an ambulance and adrenalin and my second
child as a teenager who had cut his hand on a rusty piece of iron was taken by
his bossfor a tetanus shot - the following dayhecollapsed/
stopped breathing and ended up in hospital being resuscitated -this was recorded
as a vaccine reaction.
My younger children are unvaccinated depite much
pressure/ school formsand even a huge dressing down from a GP who called
me negligent and ignorant.
At a talk last year (at a midwifery conference in
SA) by a govt person on the 'logic' of vaccinating, her reasoning was as
you mentioned that some babies of carriers - in the US!! she said- had
slipped through and not been vaccinated at birth. Apparently "some of these
women sued!!"
I find this very flimsy and fearfulreasoning
to give vaccinations to a pure little newborn - surely this is occasion for
parents to take personal responsibility - you would know if you were a carrier
and so would your carers as it would be on your records. Why should
womenwho aren't carriers be pressured to expose their babies to
unnecessary risks? Especially since babies are not going to be engaging in risky
behaviour!
As I researched after my own children's reactions I
became very cynical that much of this pressure is driven by $$$ -ifas you
say, if the 2 month vaccination will fully cover a baby (if it is the parent's
choice to vaccinate) surely the shot at birth for all babies is overkill?
Sounds like that could have been literally, Nicole- it must have been a
terrible shock for you and the parents. I really feel for you about being
anxious to inject more babies - how do you deal with this in your workplace?
So Im wondering - are parents asked about family
history of allergies/ reactions to vaccines?
Are vaccines given to well babies? when are they
given to premmies? Babies who have had any health problems/
respiratorydifficultiesat birth? Or difficult births?
What is defined as a reaction severe enough /
concerning enough to be referred to the Children's special clinic?
Many babies have red limbs, irritability, fever -
is this enough to be cautious about subsequent vaccines?
Pinky
- Original Message -
From:
lisa chalmers
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 5:33
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine
reaction
Thats really interesting Nicole,
thankyou!
Coming from the uk, I know my
case,,and can state it..but being here I have found a high uptake off
vaccinations amongst babies and children..and have already had to sign all
sorts to get my children into school. I do believe in parents making
informed decisions..but often found the info available is biased..(in both
directions!)
As a midwife...if your beliefs
were suchcould you refuse to vaccinate babies?
And to clarify for me... if a
mother is not carrying hep B...how would a baby contact
it?Through a blood transfusion?
Do you have to report reactions
like that?
Hope you dont mind me
asking,..
lisax
- Original Message -
From:
Nicole Carver
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:11
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B
vaccine reaction
Hi Lisa,
Welcome to Australia!
Hepatitis B vaccine has been given routinely at
birth now for maybe five years. One of the most common causes of Hepatitis B
is contracting it from your mother at birth, if she is a carrier.I believe
the practice of Hep B vaccination at birth came aboutbecause there
were cases of babies of known Hep B carriers who did not receive
immunoglobulin and vaccination at birth, also because the conversion to Hep
B carrier status is very high if you contract the disease in infancy. When
universal hep B administration came in, most midwives were not happy, but it
was still introduced. The doctors order it andthe parents are given an
information sheet to read, which I believe does not give the whole picture
(including that if the birth dose is not given, the baby still gets a full
course by having Hep B vax at 2,4, and 12 months of age). Parents sign a
consent form, and then the vaccine is given if they wish to proceed. I like
to give the parents the risk factors for contracting Hep B, and the
information about the normal immunisation schedule, and let them decide. All
the women have their Hep B and Cstatus checked antenatally, and are
likely to know if they are a carrier. Many ask what the majority of parents
do and are guided by that. Mo
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
hi im a 3rd year medical student and as far as i know the hep B vaccine is now routinely given at birth as a public health measure rather than because babies are actually at risk. youre right that infants and children are at low risk of contracting hep b. the only reason it is given at birthis that it is a convenient time to have contact with all hospital born babies, rather than trust in the parents that they would bring the baby back at a suitable time. i have mixed views of different vaccines, but this one and tetanus really take the cake. to subject a newly born baby to a traumatic experience purely for convenience sake (when theyre not even at risk of the disease) is a verypoor policy in my mind, especially because parents are not told this is why it is being given so they assume it is because their baby is at risk. i think if the hep b vaccine is deemed necessary at all, resources should be put in to educating the parents about it and trusting them ! to make the decision if and when to give it rather than the paternalistic view that if they dont vaccinate everyone at birth, noone would have the initiative to bring the baby back when he or she is older and may become at risk. emily lisa chalmers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everyone. I'm fairly new to Australia, (from the Uk) but have been an avid follower of this site for some time now. And, by way of an introduction..and as a first post I feel compelled to ask about this vaccineby my nature, I havnt vaccinated my kids...but as far as this particular vaccine is concernedwhy is it given routinely?? I ask, because I thought that hep B was passed on by blood and sex..(to be crude)...what infant is genuinely at risk of this?? If a baby has a reaction like this...(hope she is ok!!) does that mean she is contraindicated for future vaccines?? Many thanks, lisa Perth - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmid ; Maternity Coalition Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 7:48 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hi All, Have just had a scary experience when a baby became floppy and stopped breathing three timesafter the Hep B vaccine. She is ok, but being observed for 24 hours in special care. It just reinforces my belief that giving all babies Hep B prior to discharge from hospital is unnecessary, and where there are no risk factors present, more dangerous than not giving it. Nicole Carver. Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Indeed, this has happened to me a couple of times. Once a baby had a full on fit about 5 mins after the injection, then went on to fit more in NBS, and a baby born by elective LUSCS had a respiratory arrest. Both times the docs denied it could possibly have had anything to do with the vaccine! Sally - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmid ; Maternity Coalition Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 10:48 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hi All, Have just had a scary experience when a baby became floppy and stopped breathing three timesafter the Hep B vaccine. She is ok, but being observed for 24 hours in special care. It just reinforces my belief that giving all babies Hep B prior to discharge from hospital is unnecessary, and where there are no risk factors present, more dangerous than not giving it. Nicole Carver.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Dear Joy
I am curious to know how a newborn baby can or does
get a Hep B infection from staff
midwives being the staff with the most contact are
almost always Hep B vaccincated and checkedas I think would be
paediatricians??
Denise Hynd
"Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the
sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone,
our bodies will be handled."
Linda Hes
- Original Message -
From:
Joy Cocks
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 5:13
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine
reaction
Hi Lisa and Nicole,
Like you, I have serious concerns about giving Hep B at such
an early age. I believe we areplacing a very heavy insult on a
baby's natural immune system. I asked this question of an Immunisation
Nurse who was a speaker at a seminar I went to and she said that most cases of
Hep B with babies are contracted from staff! I'm also concerned that
parents are not given enough information on the pros and cons of this first
immunisation as, almost without exception, they sign the permission
form. I certainly find that babies are very often upset and crying the
night after it is given (I work night shift and often spend many hours walking
the baby in a sling when mum is too tired to cope any longer).
Certainly, if it is to be given I think it is preferable to give it later in
the stay in hospital, not immediately after birth together with the Konakion -
another injection that parents never seem to refuse.
Joy
Joy Cocks RN (Div 1) RM CBE IBCLCemail:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From:
lisa chalmers
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 0:33
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B
vaccine reaction
Thats really interesting
Nicole, thankyou!
Coming from the uk, I know my
case,,and can state it..but being here I have found a high uptake off
vaccinations amongst babies and children..and have already had to sign all
sorts to get my children into school. I do believe in parents making
informed decisions..but often found the info available is biased..(in both
directions!)
As a midwife...if your beliefs
were suchcould you refuse to vaccinate babies?
And to clarify for me... if a
mother is not carrying hep B...how would a baby contact
it?Through a blood transfusion?
Do you have to report reactions
like that?
Hope you dont mind me
asking,..
lisax
- Original Message -
From:
Nicole Carver
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:11
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B
vaccine reaction
Hi Lisa,
Welcome to Australia!
Hepatitis B vaccine has been given routinely
at birth now for maybe five years. One of the most common causes of
Hepatitis B is contracting it from your mother at birth, if she is a
carrier.I believe the practice of Hep B vaccination at birth came
aboutbecause there were cases of babies of known Hep B carriers who
did not receive immunoglobulin and vaccination at birth, also because the
conversion to Hep B carrier status is very high if you contract the
disease in infancy. When universal hep B administration came in, most
midwives were not happy, but it was still introduced. The doctors order it
andthe parents are given an information sheet to read, which I
believe does not give the whole picture (including that if the birth dose
is not given, the baby still gets a full course by having Hep B vax at
2,4, and 12 months of age). Parents sign a consent form, and then the
vaccine is given if they wish to proceed. I like to give the parents the
risk factors for contracting Hep B, and the information about the normal
immunisation schedule, and let them decide. All the women have their Hep B
and Cstatus checked antenatally, and are likely to know if they are
a carrier. Many ask what the majority of parents do and are guided by
that. Most parents at this stage are going ahead with it.
While I can't prove that the incident I
experienced tonight was caused by the vaccine, it only occured at the most
10 minutes after the vaccine. I don't know if the baby is contraindicated
for further vaccines, but would be very careful. It probably should be
done at the Royal Childrens Hospital where they have a specialised clinic
for babies who have had vaccine reactions.I am not sure how I will
be able to give the vaccine to another baby after that
experience.
Kind regards,
Nicole.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Hi Denise,
I have no idea, as I think the same as you. I think I
was too stunned at the time to even ask that question.
Joy
Joy Cocks RN (Div 1) RM CBE IBCLCBRIGHT Vic 3741
email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From:
Denise Hynd
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 15:28
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine
reaction
Dear Joy
I am curious to know how a newborn baby can or
does get a Hep B infection from staff
midwives being the staff with the most contact
are almost always Hep B vaccincated and checkedas I think would be
paediatricians??
Denise Hynd
"Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for
the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by
anyone, our bodies will be handled."
Linda Hes
- Original Message -
From:
Joy Cocks
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 5:13
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B
vaccine reaction
Hi Lisa and Nicole,
Like you, I have serious concerns about giving Hep B at
such an early age. I believe we areplacing a very heavy insult
on a baby's natural immune system. I asked this question of an
Immunisation Nurse who was a speaker at a seminar I went to and she said
that most cases of Hep B with babies are contracted from staff! I'm
also concerned that parents are not given enough information on the pros and
cons of this first immunisation as, almost without exception, they sign the
permission form. I certainly find that babies are very often upset and
crying the night after it is given (I work night shift and often spend many
hours walking the baby in a sling when mum is too tired to cope any
longer). Certainly, if it is to be given I think it is preferable to
give it later in the stay in hospital, not immediately after birth together
with the Konakion - another injection that parents never seem to
refuse.
Joy
Joy Cocks RN (Div 1) RM CBE IBCLCemail:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From:
lisa chalmers
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005
0:33 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B
vaccine reaction
Thats really interesting
Nicole, thankyou!
Coming from the uk, I know my
case,,and can state it..but being here I have found a high uptake off
vaccinations amongst babies and children..and have already had to sign all
sorts to get my children into school. I do believe in parents making
informed decisions..but often found the info available is biased..(in both
directions!)
As a midwife...if your
beliefs were suchcould you refuse to vaccinate babies?
And to clarify for me... if a
mother is not carrying hep B...how would a baby contact
it?Through a blood transfusion?
Do you have to report
reactions like that?
Hope you dont mind me
asking,..
lisax
- Original Message -
From:
Nicole Carver
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005
9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B
vaccine reaction
Hi Lisa,
Welcome to Australia!
Hepatitis B vaccine has been given
routinely at birth now for maybe five years. One of the most common
causes of Hepatitis B is contracting it from your mother at birth, if
she is a carrier.I believe the practice of Hep B vaccination at birth
came aboutbecause there were cases of babies of known Hep B
carriers who did not receive immunoglobulin and vaccination at birth,
also because the conversion to Hep B carrier status is very high if you
contract the disease in infancy. When universal hep B administration
came in, most midwives were not happy, but it was still introduced. The
doctors order it andthe parents are given an information sheet to
read, which I believe does not give the whole picture (including that if
the birth dose is not given, the baby still gets a full course by having
Hep B vax at 2,4, and 12 months of age). Parents sign a consent form,
and then the vaccine is given if they wish to proceed. I like to give
the parents the risk factors for contracting Hep B, and the information
about the normal immunisation schedule, and let them decide. All the
women have their Hep B and Cstatus checked antenatally, and are
likely to know if they are a carrier. Many ask what the majority of
parents do and are guided by that. Most parents at
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Hi Lisa, I don't believe the baby was at risk of catching Hepatitis B. Which means it will be absolutely tragic if the side effects are long reaching. I don't believe I would be forced to give a vaccine if I didn't want to do it. I would probably be able to ask a colleague to do it if I was unable to do it. However, I have to think about this. I will be seeing the manager on Monday, as I am not happy with the level of information parents receive, and we do know the carrier status of all the mothers. I do know though that the government monitors compliance of maternity units with giving Hep B vac, and it could attract unwelcome attention if the rate of vaccination goes down in our unit. This is not a reason not to do it, but may have implications. There is an adverse reactions register for vaccination, which I have mentioned to the medical staff caring for the baby. Nicole. - Original Message - From: lisa chalmers To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 12:33 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Thats really interesting Nicole, thankyou! Coming from the uk, I know my case,,and can state it..but being here I have found a high uptake off vaccinations amongst babies and children..and have already had to sign all sorts to get my children into school. I do believe in parents making informed decisions..but often found the info available is biased..(in both directions!) As a midwife...if your beliefs were suchcould you refuse to vaccinate babies? And to clarify for me... if a mother is not carrying hep B...how would a baby contact it?Through a blood transfusion? Do you have to report reactions like that? Hope you dont mind me asking,.. lisax - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hi Lisa, Welcome to Australia! Hepatitis B vaccine has been given routinely at birth now for maybe five years. One of the most common causes of Hepatitis B is contracting it from your mother at birth, if she is a carrier.I believe the practice of Hep B vaccination at birth came aboutbecause there were cases of babies of known Hep B carriers who did not receive immunoglobulin and vaccination at birth, also because the conversion to Hep B carrier status is very high if you contract the disease in infancy. When universal hep B administration came in, most midwives were not happy, but it was still introduced. The doctors order it andthe parents are given an information sheet to read, which I believe does not give the whole picture (including that if the birth dose is not given, the baby still gets a full course by having Hep B vax at 2,4, and 12 months of age). Parents sign a consent form, and then the vaccine is given if they wish to proceed. I like to give the parents the risk factors for contracting Hep B, and the information about the normal immunisation schedule, and let them decide. All the women have their Hep B and Cstatus checked antenatally, and are likely to know if they are a carrier. Many ask what the majority of parents do and are guided by that. Most parents at this stage are going ahead with it. While I can't prove that the incident I experienced tonight was caused by the vaccine, it only occured at the most 10 minutes after the vaccine. I don't know if the baby is contraindicated for further vaccines, but would be very careful. It probably should be done at the Royal Childrens Hospital where they have a specialised clinic for babies who have had vaccine reactions.I am not sure how I will be able to give the vaccine to another baby after that experience. Kind regards, Nicole. - Original Message - From: lisa chalmers To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 11:27 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hello everyone. I'm fairly new to Australia, (from the Uk) but have been an avid follower of this site for some time now. And, by way of an introduction..and as a first post I feel compelled to ask about this vaccineby my nature, I havnt vaccinated my kids...but as far as this particular vaccine is concernedwhy is it given routinely?? I ask, because I thought that hep B was passed on by blood and sex..(to be crude)...what infant is genuinely at risk of this?? If a baby has a reaction like this...(hope she is ok!!) does that mean she is contraindicated for future vaccines?? Many thanks, lisa Perth
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Hi Pinky , I may be able to answer some of your questions. I have studied immunisation, and was an immunisation provider for about ten years. I have become concerned about the willingness of our government to introduce new vaccinations to the schedule, particularly since the introduction of the second MMR prior to the commencement of primary school. This Hep B vaccination at birth seems over the top, and I personally wonder at the relationship between governments and commercial vaccination manufacturers. I may be paranoid. My children are vaccinated. However, I have grown to respect people who make a carefully considered decision not to do so. I think if I had my time over again, I would still vaccinate, but there would be some vaccines that I would refuse eg Sabin. I don't believe parents are asked about previous vaccine reactions in other family members. The health department advice on this one is I believe that other family members are not at any greater risk. The idea of putting a foreign substance into a new baby is also quite a concern to me. I have had someone tell me the birth dose of Hep B is important, because the Mast cells are permanently altered by giving it, so immunity is forever. I was floored by this, and wondered whether I was wrong. But later I thought, why Hep B then, why not measles or some other vaccine? I have found from experience that these nurses usually just repeat the party line. Some can be a bit aggressive when questioned! (Of course I never was!) But it would be a very difficult job to do if you had any doubts in your mind. Vaccines are given to well babies, and premmies, I think just before discharge. I think it is often up to the judgement of the midwife or nurse looking after the baby. The vaccination clinic is mainly for babies or infants with allergic type reactions, or known allergies to egg in the case of MMR. Localised reactions are seen as normal, unless severe. I have only seen two serious reactions in my time, which is now reaching twenty years. Best wishes, Nicole. - Original Message - From: Pinky McKay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 3:39 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hi Nicole and lisa, Are any questions asked re family history of allergies/ vaccine reactions before giving the shots? My own first baby (now 30)had a similar reaction to his first triple antigen (the first vaccine in those days), my mother had a collapse after a tetanus shot requiring an ambulance and adrenalin and my second child as a teenager who had cut his hand on a rusty piece of iron was taken by his bossfor a tetanus shot - the following dayhecollapsed/ stopped breathing and ended up in hospital being resuscitated -this was recorded as a vaccine reaction. My younger children are unvaccinated depite much pressure/ school formsand even a huge dressing down from a GP who called me negligent and ignorant. At a talk last year (at a midwifery conference in SA) by a govt person on the 'logic' of vaccinating, her reasoning was as you mentioned that some babies of carriers - in the US!! she said- had slipped through and not been vaccinated at birth. Apparently "some of these women sued!!" I find this very flimsy and fearfulreasoning to give vaccinations to a pure little newborn - surely this is occasion for parents to take personal responsibility - you would know if you were a carrier and so would your carers as it would be on your records. Why should womenwho aren't carriers be pressured to expose their babies to unnecessary risks? Especially since babies are not going to be engaging in risky behaviour! As I researched after my own children's reactions I became very cynical that much of this pressure is driven by $$$ -ifas you say, if the 2 month vaccination will fully cover a baby (if it is the parent's choice to vaccinate) surely the shot at birth for all babies is overkill? Sounds like that could have been literally, Nicole- it must have been a terrible shock for you and the parents. I really feel for you about being anxious to inject more babies - how do you deal with this in your workplace? So Im wondering - are parents asked about family history of allergies/ reactions to vaccines? Are vaccines given to well babies? when are they given to premmies? Babies who have had any health problems/ respiratorydifficultiesat birth? Or difficult births? What is defined as a reaction severe enough / concerning enough to be referred to the Children's special clinic? Many babies have red limbs, irritability, fever - is this enough to be cautious about subsequent vaccines? Pinky - Original Message - From: lisa chalmers To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 5:
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Emily, How refreshing to hear this from a medical person! So often I find medical colleagues unprepared to take the broader view on these issues. You will be treasured by your future patients! I agree entirely, parents will not knowingly put their babies at risk. I have also recently looked after a woman who carries Hep C. Her hygeine is unbelievable. She is incredibly protective of everyone in her family and generally. She also has taken steps to distance her children from people in her past who may be infected. Her baby incidentally, has had the Hep B vaccine. I wish there was a Hep C vaccine, as we have infinitely more mothers with Hep C. Nicole. - Original Message - From: Emily To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction hi im a 3rd year medical student and as far as i know the hep B vaccine is now routinely given at birth as a public health measure rather than because babies are actually at risk. youre right that infants and children are at low risk of contracting hep b. the only reason it is given at birthis that it is a convenient time to have contact with all hospital born babies, rather than trust in the parents that they would bring the baby back at a suitable time. i have mixed views of different vaccines, but this one and tetanus really take the cake. to subject a newly born baby to a traumatic experience purely for convenience sake (when theyre not even at risk of the disease) is a verypoor policy in my mind, especially because parents are not told this is why it is being given so they assume it is because their baby is at risk. i think if the hep b vaccine is deemed necessary at all, resources should be put in to educating the parents about it and trusting them ! to make the decision if and when to give it rather than the paternalistic view that if they dont vaccinate everyone at birth, noone would have the initiative to bring the baby back when he or she is older and may become at risk. emily lisa chalmers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everyone. I'm fairly new to Australia, (from the Uk) but have been an avid follower of this site for some time now. And, by way of an introduction..and as a first post I feel compelled to ask about this vaccineby my nature, I havnt vaccinated my kids...but as far as this particular vaccine is concernedwhy is it given routinely?? I ask, because I thought that hep B was passed on by blood and sex..(to be crude)...what infant is genuinely at risk of this?? If a baby has a reaction like this...(hope she is ok!!) does that mean she is contraindicated for future vaccines?? Many thanks, lisa Perth - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmid ; Maternity Coalition Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 7:48 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hi All, Have just had a scary experience when a baby became floppy and stopped breathing three timesafter the Hep B vaccine. She is ok, but being observed for 24 hours in special care. It just reinforces my belief that giving all babies Hep B prior to discharge from hospital is unnecessary, and where there are no risk factors present, more dangerous than not giving it. Nicole Carver. Do you Yahoo!?Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Thanks Nicole..
How is the baby doing?? I
hope the parents are ok too.
From my own experiencemuch
fussis made of those of us that dont vaccinate...but littleis made
of adverse reactions ..or even if vaccinated kids then go on to develop the
disease that theyare "protected" from. I was involved in a so called
epidemic of measles 2 years ago. All of the kids unvaccinated were reported when
they got measles..none of those that were vaccinated were. Its scandelous.
Figureswere definately tweaked.
It must be really toughfor
you hope it goes well with your manager on monday. Could you offer to help
rewrite the info given? I had a peek at the site in SA earlier and that looked
great!
Good luck,
lisax
- Original Message -
From:
Nicole
Carver
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 2:08
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine
reaction
Hi Lisa,
I don't believe the baby was at risk of catching
Hepatitis B. Which means it will be absolutely tragic if the side effects are
long reaching. I don't believe I would be forced to give a vaccine if I didn't
want to do it. I would probably be able to ask a colleague to do it if I was
unable to do it. However, I have to think about this. I will be seeing the
manager on Monday, as I am not happy with the level of information parents
receive, and we do know the carrier status of all the mothers. I do know
though that the government monitors compliance of maternity units with giving
Hep B vac, and it could attract unwelcome attention if the rate of vaccination
goes down in our unit. This is not a reason not to do it, but may have
implications. There is an adverse reactions register for vaccination, which I
have mentioned to the medical staff caring for the baby.
Nicole.
- Original Message -
From:
lisa chalmers
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 12:33
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B
vaccine reaction
Thats really interesting
Nicole, thankyou!
Coming from the uk, I know my
case,,and can state it..but being here I have found a high uptake off
vaccinations amongst babies and children..and have already had to sign all
sorts to get my children into school. I do believe in parents making
informed decisions..but often found the info available is biased..(in both
directions!)
As a midwife...if your beliefs
were suchcould you refuse to vaccinate babies?
And to clarify for me... if a
mother is not carrying hep B...how would a baby contact
it?Through a blood transfusion?
Do you have to report reactions
like that?
Hope you dont mind me
asking,..
lisax
- Original Message -
From:
Nicole Carver
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:11
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B
vaccine reaction
Hi Lisa,
Welcome to Australia!
Hepatitis B vaccine has been given routinely
at birth now for maybe five years. One of the most common causes of
Hepatitis B is contracting it from your mother at birth, if she is a
carrier.I believe the practice of Hep B vaccination at birth came
aboutbecause there were cases of babies of known Hep B carriers who
did not receive immunoglobulin and vaccination at birth, also because the
conversion to Hep B carrier status is very high if you contract the
disease in infancy. When universal hep B administration came in, most
midwives were not happy, but it was still introduced. The doctors order it
andthe parents are given an information sheet to read, which I
believe does not give the whole picture (including that if the birth dose
is not given, the baby still gets a full course by having Hep B vax at
2,4, and 12 months of age). Parents sign a consent form, and then the
vaccine is given if they wish to proceed. I like to give the parents the
risk factors for contracting Hep B, and the information about the normal
immunisation schedule, and let them decide. All the women have their Hep B
and Cstatus checked antenatally, and are likely to know if they are
a carrier. Many ask what the majority of parents do and are guided by
that. Most parents at this stage are going ahead with it.
While I can't prove that the incident I
experienced tonight was caused by the vaccine, it only occured at the most
10 minutes after the vaccine. I don't know if the baby is contraindicated
for further vaccines, but would be very careful. It probably should be
done at the Royal Childrens Hospital where they have a specialised clinic
for babies who have had vaccine reac
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction
Hi Sally, I have decided to put in a report myself to the vaccine reaction register for that very reason. Thanks for sharing your experience, it has motivated me to not wait for the docs to act. Nicole. - Original Message - From: sally To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Indeed, this has happened to me a couple of times. Once a baby had a full on fit about 5 mins after the injection, then went on to fit more in NBS, and a baby born by elective LUSCS had a respiratory arrest. Both times the docs denied it could possibly have had anything to do with the vaccine! Sally - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmid ; Maternity Coalition Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 10:48 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction Hi All, Have just had a scary experience when a baby became floppy and stopped breathing three timesafter the Hep B vaccine. She is ok, but being observed for 24 hours in special care. It just reinforces my belief that giving all babies Hep B prior to discharge from hospital is unnecessary, and where there are no risk factors present, more dangerous than not giving it. Nicole Carver.
