Re: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage?
Hey Carolyn, That's exactly what i was asking. Many thanks for taking the time to respond - really appreciate the physiological explanation/logic. Best wishes Angela On 12/29/06, Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Angela, From my perspective, it would seem that an exogenous oxytocic mediated third stage, with its forceful, prolonged contraction would be more likely to force fetal blood into the maternal system. That contraction, coupled with pulling and tugging, removing placental bits from the endometrium by applied tension (aka controlled cord traction) would be more likely to provide opportunities for micro tears in the delicate chorionic villi walls, lending itself to transplacental transfer of blood cells. The intelligent way the woman's endogenous oxytocin's pulsatile nature provides gentle and yet effective uterine contractions, allowing the placenta to come off the wall of the uterus like a sticky note off a piece of paper and drop into the lower segment, whilst clamping the uterine wall blood vessels has a different 'energetic' feel to it all. Given that at the sub atomic level we are all energy, that differet 'feel' may well be very important. BTW, that pressure of the placenta in the lower segment provides the pelvic and bowel sensations to let the woman know it is time to give birth to her placenta. I would suggest therefore, that physiological 'management' is the optimal form of third stage 'care' for women with rhesus positive and rhesus negative blood groups. Funny how often physiology wins out over intervention. Hmm. Is that what you are meaning by your question Angela? warmly, Carolyn - Original Message - *From:* Angela Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au *Sent:* Friday, December 29, 2006 11:45 AM *Subject:* Re: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage? Carolyn, Would you have any feedback on managed 3rd stage for rhesus negative women? Thanks Angela On 12/24/06, Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great question Kristin. If a woman who has given birth to her baby is in her 'tend and befriend' neural network regulatory process aka parasympathetic aspect of her autonomic nervous system, then her endogenous oxytocin will be high, therefore doing what endogenous oxytocin does - contract her uterus, stimulate lactogenesis, generate sensations of loving her baby, stimulate all sorts of yummy, healthy physiological effects, which in turn creates more of the same. BTW, that is the state we are all meant to be in - our physiology works for health and harmony in that 'state'. If however, she is frightened, cold, disrupted, interfered with or her baby is taken away from her for whatever reason, including weighing, measuring etc, therefore her autonomic nervous system switches into the 'flight, fight or freeze' state, then she may be much more likely to bleed and therefore 'need' exogenous oxytocin. Fascinating how we create what we are always trying to prevent/control :-) Something that is not well enough known is that when we give exogenous oxytocics aka syntocinon, then that synthetic hormone does not cross the blood brain barrier and therefore does not act like a behavioural hormone, meaning it does not help mothers fall in love with their babies and it does switch off the woman's own oxytocin supply, which complicates the falling in love issue. So giving exogenous oxytocin interrrupts bonding and even distorts it. That's a big responsibility and we are seeing the effects of our (medically dominated and controlled/interrupted birthing process) meddlesome ways in our society's ills right now. I for one, would not advocate giving syntocinon after the placenta was born for 'insurance' reasons. It is really time that we all started looking at what makes our physiology work best, instead of the Newtonian way of always trying to control 'risk'. That is shutting the door after the horse has bolted way of doing things. We have to reduced risk by optimising conditions before we get to the risky state. We are busy creating risk by frightening women. We have to start asking 'what helps women feel confident?' 'what helps women feel safe in their own skins?' ' what can we do to make the birth environment one which enhances women's sense of self and internal security?' what helps women feel relaxed and calm?' What do we need to do to help women stay in their parasympathetic aspect of their autonomic nervous system? At Belmont, we are seeing the effects of facilitating, supporting and respecting the normal parasympathetic way of being - healthy happy babies and mothers, well bonded. Labour goes better and faster, perineums are stretchier, love is more likely and deep, connection between mother/baby/family is facilitated, breastfeeding goes better, babies are healthy and happy and smiling from birth - we know they smile in the womb, but we can't see that til they're born. love
Re: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage?
Carolyn, Would you have any feedback on managed 3rd stage for rhesus negative women? Thanks Angela On 12/24/06, Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great question Kristin. If a woman who has given birth to her baby is in her 'tend and befriend' neural network regulatory process aka parasympathetic aspect of her autonomic nervous system, then her endogenous oxytocin will be high, therefore doing what endogenous oxytocin does - contract her uterus, stimulate lactogenesis, generate sensations of loving her baby, stimulate all sorts of yummy, healthy physiological effects, which in turn creates more of the same. BTW, that is the state we are all meant to be in - our physiology works for health and harmony in that 'state'. If however, she is frightened, cold, disrupted, interfered with or her baby is taken away from her for whatever reason, including weighing, measuring etc, therefore her autonomic nervous system switches into the 'flight, fight or freeze' state, then she may be much more likely to bleed and therefore 'need' exogenous oxytocin. Fascinating how we create what we are always trying to prevent/control :-) Something that is not well enough known is that when we give exogenous oxytocics aka syntocinon, then that synthetic hormone does not cross the blood brain barrier and therefore does not act like a behavioural hormone, meaning it does not help mothers fall in love with their babies and it does switch off the woman's own oxytocin supply, which complicates the falling in love issue. So giving exogenous oxytocin interrrupts bonding and even distorts it. That's a big responsibility and we are seeing the effects of our (medically dominated and controlled/interrupted birthing process) meddlesome ways in our society's ills right now. I for one, would not advocate giving syntocinon after the placenta was born for 'insurance' reasons. It is really time that we all started looking at what makes our physiology work best, instead of the Newtonian way of always trying to control 'risk'. That is shutting the door after the horse has bolted way of doing things. We have to reduced risk by optimising conditions before we get to the risky state. We are busy creating risk by frightening women. We have to start asking 'what helps women feel confident?' 'what helps women feel safe in their own skins?' ' what can we do to make the birth environment one which enhances women's sense of self and internal security?' what helps women feel relaxed and calm?' What do we need to do to help women stay in their parasympathetic aspect of their autonomic nervous system? At Belmont, we are seeing the effects of facilitating, supporting and respecting the normal parasympathetic way of being - healthy happy babies and mothers, well bonded. Labour goes better and faster, perineums are stretchier, love is more likely and deep, connection between mother/baby/family is facilitated, breastfeeding goes better, babies are healthy and happy and smiling from birth - we know they smile in the womb, but we can't see that til they're born. love, Carolyn - Original Message - *From:* Kristin Beckedahl [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au *Sent:* Sunday, December 24, 2006 12:47 PM *Subject:* [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage? Hi all, A woman I will be supporting for her first birth had a checkup y'day where she discussed her birth plan with the midwife. MW was very impressed and supportive overall, yet was concerned about her decision for a natural 3rd stage. She has stated on her birth plan that she would prefer to take the wait and see approach and only have it if there was 'excessive' bleeding. The MW was happy to negiotiate this with her and suggested she have it not at birth, but after the placenta has come away. Would she really need it at this stageif her loss was minimal...? Any insights would be appreciated thanks! Kristin -- Advertisement: It's simple! Sell your car for just $20 at carsales.com.au http://g.msn.com/8HMBENAU/2746??PS=47575-- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage?
Hello Angela, From my perspective, it would seem that an exogenous oxytocic mediated third stage, with its forceful, prolonged contraction would be more likely to force fetal blood into the maternal system. That contraction, coupled with pulling and tugging, removing placental bits from the endometrium by applied tension (aka controlled cord traction) would be more likely to provide opportunities for micro tears in the delicate chorionic villi walls, lending itself to transplacental transfer of blood cells. The intelligent way the woman's endogenous oxytocin's pulsatile nature provides gentle and yet effective uterine contractions, allowing the placenta to come off the wall of the uterus like a sticky note off a piece of paper and drop into the lower segment, whilst clamping the uterine wall blood vessels has a different 'energetic' feel to it all. Given that at the sub atomic level we are all energy, that differet 'feel' may well be very important. BTW, that pressure of the placenta in the lower segment provides the pelvic and bowel sensations to let the woman know it is time to give birth to her placenta. I would suggest therefore, that physiological 'management' is the optimal form of third stage 'care' for women with rhesus positive and rhesus negative blood groups. Funny how often physiology wins out over intervention. Hmm. Is that what you are meaning by your question Angela? warmly, Carolyn - Original Message - From: Angela Thompson To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage? Carolyn, Would you have any feedback on managed 3rd stage for rhesus negative women? Thanks Angela On 12/24/06, Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great question Kristin. If a woman who has given birth to her baby is in her 'tend and befriend' neural network regulatory process aka parasympathetic aspect of her autonomic nervous system, then her endogenous oxytocin will be high, therefore doing what endogenous oxytocin does - contract her uterus, stimulate lactogenesis, generate sensations of loving her baby, stimulate all sorts of yummy, healthy physiological effects, which in turn creates more of the same. BTW, that is the state we are all meant to be in - our physiology works for health and harmony in that 'state'. If however, she is frightened, cold, disrupted, interfered with or her baby is taken away from her for whatever reason, including weighing, measuring etc, therefore her autonomic nervous system switches into the 'flight, fight or freeze' state, then she may be much more likely to bleed and therefore 'need' exogenous oxytocin. Fascinating how we create what we are always trying to prevent/control :-) Something that is not well enough known is that when we give exogenous oxytocics aka syntocinon, then that synthetic hormone does not cross the blood brain barrier and therefore does not act like a behavioural hormone, meaning it does not help mothers fall in love with their babies and it does switch off the woman's own oxytocin supply, which complicates the falling in love issue. So giving exogenous oxytocin interrrupts bonding and even distorts it. That's a big responsibility and we are seeing the effects of our (medically dominated and controlled/interrupted birthing process) meddlesome ways in our society's ills right now. I for one, would not advocate giving syntocinon after the placenta was born for 'insurance' reasons. It is really time that we all started looking at what makes our physiology work best, instead of the Newtonian way of always trying to control 'risk'. That is shutting the door after the horse has bolted way of doing things. We have to reduced risk by optimising conditions before we get to the risky state. We are busy creating risk by frightening women. We have to start asking 'what helps women feel confident?' 'what helps women feel safe in their own skins?' ' what can we do to make the birth environment one which enhances women's sense of self and internal security?' what helps women feel relaxed and calm?' What do we need to do to help women stay in their parasympathetic aspect of their autonomic nervous system? At Belmont, we are seeing the effects of facilitating, supporting and respecting the normal parasympathetic way of being - healthy happy babies and mothers, well bonded. Labour goes better and faster, perineums are stretchier, love is more likely and deep, connection between mother/baby/family is facilitated, breastfeeding goes better, babies are healthy and happy and smiling from birth - we know they smile in the womb, but we can't see that til they're born. love, Carolyn - Original Message - From: Kristin Beckedahl To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 12:47 PM
RE: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage?
NO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kristin Beckedahl Sent: Sunday, 24 December 2006 12:48 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage? Hi all, A woman I will be supporting for her first birth had a checkup y'day where she discussed her birth plan with the midwife. MW was very impressed and supportive overall, yet was concerned about her decision for a natural 3rd stage. She has stated on her birth plan that she would prefer to take the wait and see approach and only have it if there was 'excessive' bleeding. The MW was happy to negiotiate this with her and suggested she have it not at birth, but after the placenta has come away. Would she really need it at this stageif her loss was minimal...? Any insights would be appreciated thanks! Kristin -- Advertisement: It's simple! Sell your car for just $20 at carsales.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage?
If loss is minimal then syntocionon is not needed as it is to assist with the ligation of the living ligatures, if you give synt then your doing active management irriguarless of when you give it. Cheers sharon. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Ward Sent: Tuesday, 26 December 2006 10:04 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage? NO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kristin Beckedahl Sent: Sunday, 24 December 2006 12:48 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage? Hi all, A woman I will be supporting for her first birth had a checkup y'day where she discussed her birth plan with the midwife. MW was very impressed and supportive overall, yet was concerned about her decision for a natural 3rd stage. She has stated on her birth plan that she would prefer to take the wait and see approach and only have it if there was 'excessive' bleeding. The MW was happy to negiotiate this with her and suggested she have it not at birth, but after the placenta has come away. Would she really need it at this stageif her loss was minimal...? Any insights would be appreciated thanks! Kristin _ Advertisement: It's simple! Sell your car for just $20 at HYPERLINK http://g.msn.com/8HMBENAU/2746??PS=47575carsales.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.27/602 - Release Date: 25/12/2006 10:19 AM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.27/602 - Release Date: 25/12/2006 10:19 AM
[ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage?
Hi all, A woman I will be supporting for her first birth had a checkup y'day where she discussed her birth plan with the midwife. MW was very impressed and supportive overall, yet was concerned about her decision for a natural 3rd stage. She has stated on her birth plan that she would prefer to take the "wait and see approach" and only have it if there was 'excessive'bleeding. TheMWwas happy to negiotiate this with her and suggested she have it not at birth, but after the placenta has come away. Would she really need it at this stageif her loss was minimal...? Any insights would be appreciated thanks! KristinAdvertisement: It's simple! Sell your car for just $20 at carsales.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage?
Great question Kristin. If a woman who has given birth to her baby is in her 'tend and befriend' neural network regulatory process aka parasympathetic aspect of her autonomic nervous system, then her endogenous oxytocin will be high, therefore doing what endogenous oxytocin does - contract her uterus, stimulate lactogenesis, generate sensations of loving her baby, stimulate all sorts of yummy, healthy physiological effects, which in turn creates more of the same. BTW, that is the state we are all meant to be in - our physiology works for health and harmony in that 'state'. If however, she is frightened, cold, disrupted, interfered with or her baby is taken away from her for whatever reason, including weighing, measuring etc, therefore her autonomic nervous system switches into the 'flight, fight or freeze' state, then she may be much more likely to bleed and therefore 'need' exogenous oxytocin. Fascinating how we create what we are always trying to prevent/control :-) Something that is not well enough known is that when we give exogenous oxytocics aka syntocinon, then that synthetic hormone does not cross the blood brain barrier and therefore does not act like a behavioural hormone, meaning it does not help mothers fall in love with their babies and it does switch off the woman's own oxytocin supply, which complicates the falling in love issue. So giving exogenous oxytocin interrrupts bonding and even distorts it. That's a big responsibility and we are seeing the effects of our (medically dominated and controlled/interrupted birthing process) meddlesome ways in our society's ills right now. I for one, would not advocate giving syntocinon after the placenta was born for 'insurance' reasons. It is really time that we all started looking at what makes our physiology work best, instead of the Newtonian way of always trying to control 'risk'. That is shutting the door after the horse has bolted way of doing things. We have to reduced risk by optimising conditions before we get to the risky state. We are busy creating risk by frightening women. We have to start asking 'what helps women feel confident?' 'what helps women feel safe in their own skins?' ' what can we do to make the birth environment one which enhances women's sense of self and internal security?' what helps women feel relaxed and calm?' What do we need to do to help women stay in their parasympathetic aspect of their autonomic nervous system? At Belmont, we are seeing the effects of facilitating, supporting and respecting the normal parasympathetic way of being - healthy happy babies and mothers, well bonded. Labour goes better and faster, perineums are stretchier, love is more likely and deep, connection between mother/baby/family is facilitated, breastfeeding goes better, babies are healthy and happy and smiling from birth - we know they smile in the womb, but we can't see that til they're born. love, Carolyn - Original Message - From: Kristin Beckedahl To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 12:47 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage? Hi all, A woman I will be supporting for her first birth had a checkup y'day where she discussed her birth plan with the midwife. MW was very impressed and supportive overall, yet was concerned about her decision for a natural 3rd stage. She has stated on her birth plan that she would prefer to take the wait and see approach and only have it if there was 'excessive' bleeding. The MW was happy to negiotiate this with her and suggested she have it not at birth, but after the placenta has come away. Would she really need it at this stageif her loss was minimal...? Any insights would be appreciated thanks! Kristin -- Advertisement: It's simple! Sell your car for just $20 at carsales.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage?
Nice answer :) - Original Message - From: Heartlogic To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage? Great question Kristin. If a woman who has given birth to her baby is in her 'tend and befriend' neural network regulatory process aka parasympathetic aspect of her autonomic nervous system, then her endogenous oxytocin will be high, therefore doing what endogenous oxytocin does - contract her uterus, stimulate lactogenesis, generate sensations of loving her baby, stimulate all sorts of yummy, healthy physiological effects, which in turn creates more of the same. BTW, that is the state we are all meant to be in - our physiology works for health and harmony in that 'state'. If however, she is frightened, cold, disrupted, interfered with or her baby is taken away from her for whatever reason, including weighing, measuring etc, therefore her autonomic nervous system switches into the 'flight, fight or freeze' state, then she may be much more likely to bleed and therefore 'need' exogenous oxytocin. Fascinating how we create what we are always trying to prevent/control :-) Something that is not well enough known is that when we give exogenous oxytocics aka syntocinon, then that synthetic hormone does not cross the blood brain barrier and therefore does not act like a behavioural hormone, meaning it does not help mothers fall in love with their babies and it does switch off the woman's own oxytocin supply, which complicates the falling in love issue. So giving exogenous oxytocin interrrupts bonding and even distorts it. That's a big responsibility and we are seeing the effects of our (medically dominated and controlled/interrupted birthing process) meddlesome ways in our society's ills right now. I for one, would not advocate giving syntocinon after the placenta was born for 'insurance' reasons. It is really time that we all started looking at what makes our physiology work best, instead of the Newtonian way of always trying to control 'risk'. That is shutting the door after the horse has bolted way of doing things. We have to reduced risk by optimising conditions before we get to the risky state. We are busy creating risk by frightening women. We have to start asking 'what helps women feel confident?' 'what helps women feel safe in their own skins?' ' what can we do to make the birth environment one which enhances women's sense of self and internal security?' what helps women feel relaxed and calm?' What do we need to do to help women stay in their parasympathetic aspect of their autonomic nervous system? At Belmont, we are seeing the effects of facilitating, supporting and respecting the normal parasympathetic way of being - healthy happy babies and mothers, well bonded. Labour goes better and faster, perineums are stretchier, love is more likely and deep, connection between mother/baby/family is facilitated, breastfeeding goes better, babies are healthy and happy and smiling from birth - we know they smile in the womb, but we can't see that til they're born. love, Carolyn - Original Message - From: Kristin Beckedahl To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 12:47 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] synto AFTER 3rd stage? Hi all, A woman I will be supporting for her first birth had a checkup y'day where she discussed her birth plan with the midwife. MW was very impressed and supportive overall, yet was concerned about her decision for a natural 3rd stage. She has stated on her birth plan that she would prefer to take the wait and see approach and only have it if there was 'excessive' bleeding. The MW was happy to negiotiate this with her and suggested she have it not at birth, but after the placenta has come away. Would she really need it at this stageif her loss was minimal...? Any insights would be appreciated thanks! Kristin Advertisement: It's simple! Sell your car for just $20 at carsales.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/600 - Release Date: 12/23/2006
