Re: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold
Ah, Marilyn, I like that word 'reframing' - Original Message - From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 7:13 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold I had an interesting experience with a young couple in labour ward the other week. They were private patients and were quite primed for the epidural etc (and had been just threatened with a c/s for PROM) and had already received one dose of pethidine before handover, to me. It was obviously early labour and was starting to pick up. Anyway as this young mum was starting to struggle througgh her pethidine haze, I gave them a little talk about welcoming the contractions and that oxytocin was the love hormone encouraging them to caress and dance and him to massage and soothe her pain. They went for it with only a little bit of encouragement from me from time to time. She still had the epidural but she had been under a time line from her private ob and she passed it and ended up with a vaginal birth: he thought it was his threat of the c/s, I think it was my encouragement of enjoyment. Reframing is what we need in a nutshell. marilyn - Original Message - From: Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 4:57 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold Hi Diane, It's great to see these principles being taught so well. They do work when the necessary diligence is applied and the principles are being validated by neuroscience (at last). All we humans are hypnotising ourselves all the time (or being hypnotised by mass media) and it is about time we learnt how to self talk (hypnotise) ourselves for outcomes we desire and work with our biological intelligence, rather than against it. Fear (adrenalin, cortisol in excess etc) is such a powerful disruptor of healthy/normal biological functioning. Increasing prefrontal cortex activity helps people feel safe and over ride amygdala hijacks. see http://edition.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/11/07/brain.fear/index.html and http://edition.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/10/09/ego.pain.ap/index.html for a quick summary. Brain research is fascinating, liberating and exciting. It is busy validating what adepts and mystics (and people like Grantley Dick Read) have told us for ages. Brain research is also validating the value of story telling in midwifery care, getting women together, enjoying food together kitchen table wisdom, defusing women's fears and providing the kind of environment that enables undisturbed birth. It takes 'soft' data and makes it 'hard' - isn't that a funny metaphor for information? especially when applied to women's birth processes ;-) And a point of clarity? Is it pain threshold or tolerance or reframing? It seems to me that all of us go ouch when stuck with a pin, self talk can help us change our perception and reaction therefore our experience of phenomena. Just philosophising and musing. Perception and attitude are everything in my mind. in solidarity (thanks Justine) Carolyn Hastie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Diane Gardner Sent: Sunday, 26 October 2003 10:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold Hi Cheryl I work with HypnoBirthing (a method that a woman uses to put herself into self hypnosis while she is in labour). I have been a part of many births with couples and I know that the mind definitely has control of the sensation the body will feel. Many of my mums feel only pressure and they are awake and in control of their birthing. I have not had one negative birth story since I started practicing 3 years ago even when medical intervention was needed. The relaxation and breathing still continues even if medical intevention is required, although that doesn't happen anywhere near as often. I did have one that didn't have as much success. It was a mum who had her own business at home and WORKED long hours right up until she went into labour. I had my doubts when she was in her classes that she would have all the necessary rest her body and baby needed and that she would practice so that the relaxation process it would become automatic. The concept of HypnoBirthing came from an English Obstetricial, Grantly Dick Read who back in the 1912-14 wanted to know why some women went into labour and gave birth with no fuss while others suffered excruciating pain. His research showed that the ones who trusted in the natural function of their body and relaxed would give birth with no fuss and they did. Mind you he was nearly thrown out of his profession because of his outrageous ideas. Are they so outrageous? I know they aren't. I've seen that they aren't. He wrote the book Childbirth Without Fear that was first published in 1944
Re: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold
Hi Cheryl I work with HypnoBirthing (a method that a woman uses to put herself into self hypnosis while she is in labour). I have been a part of many births with couples and I know that the mind definitely has control of the sensation the body will feel. Many of my mums feel only pressure and they are awake and in control of their birthing. I have not had one negative birth story since I started practicing 3 years ago even when medical intervention was needed. The relaxation and breathing still continues even if medical intevention is required, although that doesn't happen anywhere near as often. I did have one that didn't have as much success. It was a mum who had her own business at home and WORKED long hours right up until she went into labour. I had my doubts when she was in her classes that she would have all the necessary rest her body and baby needed and that she would practice so that the relaxation process it would become automatic. The concept of HypnoBirthing came from an English Obstetricial, Grantly Dick Read who back in the 1912-14 wanted to know why some women went into labour and gave birth with no fuss while others suffered excruciating pain. His research showed that the ones who trusted in the natural function of their body and relaxed would give birth with no fuss and they did. Mind you he was nearly thrown out of his profession because of his outrageous ideas. Are they so outrageous? I know they aren't. I've seen that they aren't. He wrote the book Childbirth Without Fear that was first published in 1944 and reading it today it is still totally relevant althought the old fashioned languaging makes me smile. The program is trained here in Australia by Peter Jackson, in Bowral NSW, who is himself a midwife and last week in his training he had 14 midwives amongst the participants! They had seen HypnoBirthing in practice and wanted to be able to use it to help women in labour. Even for women haven't gone through the program, the breathing and relaxation can help tremendously. The US site where it originated is www.hypnobirthing.com. Many stories up there of the successes. You have to ask why in China, Africa, India and other 3rd world countries, do mothers give birth so easily and without the excruciating pain? They trust in the natural process and they believe that it doesn't hurt and it doesn't. They are also part of a supporting community, something which is missing in our culture today with so many women focused on working rather than being at home and their mothers, aunties etc. who are out there working as well. Many young mothers have no one to turn to except their maternal health nurses. When I've attended a birth and wittness a woman giving birth gently and a midwife in tears because she hasn't wittnessed a natural birth for such a long time, I know that I'm on the right track. Mind you I have had the gruff midwives who tutt, tutt and try their bullying tactics but my couples stand their ground and often a midwife has stomped out of the room because she doesn't have the control over a situation that didn't need controlling. There are more midwives out there who care than ones who want the control factor. It's the medical training and I certainly don't blame them for following what they have been taught. A couple I am working with at the moment, the dad is an obstetrician so this program has been a real eye opener for him. His wife is relaxed and confident about her coming birth (2 weeks away). He said something the other day that really made me smile. He said that obstericians should only be there for the high risk pregnancies and that midwives should deliver all babies. YEA! Wish they all thought like that huh? I did an interview last week for Today Tonight which I hope will go to air this week sometime. It interviews one of my couples and myself about their birth and HypnoBirthing. The couple videoed their birth and boy do I wish I could show that birth to the world. A baby gently emerging into the world and a mother so calm and confident, no screaming and toally in control of her birthing. It so saddened me to read Sonia's story of Nataniel's birth and that the only problem was that he was breech. What are we doing? I just love reading you guys on this site, so passionate about birth too. You really care about the way birth is going and it gives me the confidence to know that what I am teaching is giving women back their power over their bodies and their birthings. OK I'll step off the soapbox now and say thankyou to all of you out there who want birth back to the way nature intended and for the wonderful job you all do. Sorry this is so lengthy, I just get so passionate about this subject (as if you couldn't guess) but boy it IS time we had a say in how OUR birthings go. It doesn't HAVE to be that medical incident. regards Diane Gardner -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold
Hi Diane, It's great to see these principles being taught so well. They do work when the necessary diligence is applied and the principles are being validated by neuroscience (at last). All we humans are hypnotising ourselves all the time (or being hypnotised by mass media) and it is about time we learnt how to self talk (hypnotise) ourselves for outcomes we desire and work with our biological intelligence, rather than against it. Fear (adrenalin, cortisol in excess etc) is such a powerful disruptor of healthy/normal biological functioning. Increasing prefrontal cortex activity helps people feel safe and over ride amygdala hijacks. see http://edition.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/11/07/brain.fear/index.html and http://edition.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/10/09/ego.pain.ap/index.html for a quick summary. Brain research is fascinating, liberating and exciting. It is busy validating what adepts and mystics (and people like Grantley Dick Read) have told us for ages. Brain research is also validating the value of story telling in midwifery care, getting women together, enjoying food together kitchen table wisdom, defusing women's fears and providing the kind of environment that enables undisturbed birth. It takes 'soft' data and makes it 'hard' - isn't that a funny metaphor for information? especially when applied to women's birth processes ;-) And a point of clarity? Is it pain threshold or tolerance or reframing? It seems to me that all of us go ouch when stuck with a pin, self talk can help us change our perception and reaction therefore our experience of phenomena. Just philosophising and musing. Perception and attitude are everything in my mind. in solidarity (thanks Justine) Carolyn Hastie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Diane Gardner Sent: Sunday, 26 October 2003 10:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold Hi Cheryl I work with HypnoBirthing (a method that a woman uses to put herself into self hypnosis while she is in labour). I have been a part of many births with couples and I know that the mind definitely has control of the sensation the body will feel. Many of my mums feel only pressure and they are awake and in control of their birthing. I have not had one negative birth story since I started practicing 3 years ago even when medical intervention was needed. The relaxation and breathing still continues even if medical intevention is required, although that doesn't happen anywhere near as often. I did have one that didn't have as much success. It was a mum who had her own business at home and WORKED long hours right up until she went into labour. I had my doubts when she was in her classes that she would have all the necessary rest her body and baby needed and that she would practice so that the relaxation process it would become automatic. The concept of HypnoBirthing came from an English Obstetricial, Grantly Dick Read who back in the 1912-14 wanted to know why some women went into labour and gave birth with no fuss while others suffered excruciating pain. His research showed that the ones who trusted in the natural function of their body and relaxed would give birth with no fuss and they did. Mind you he was nearly thrown out of his profession because of his outrageous ideas. Are they so outrageous? I know they aren't. I've seen that they aren't. He wrote the book Childbirth Without Fear that was first published in 1944 and reading it today it is still totally relevant althought the old fashioned languaging makes me smile. The program is trained here in Australia by Peter Jackson, in Bowral NSW, who is himself a midwife and last week in his training he had 14 midwives amongst the participants! They had seen HypnoBirthing in practice and wanted to be able to use it to help women in labour. Even for women haven't gone through the program, the breathing and relaxation can help tremendously. The US site where it originated is www.hypnobirthing.com. Many stories up there of the successes. You have to ask why in China, Africa, India and other 3rd world countries, do mothers give birth so easily and without the excruciating pain? They trust in the natural process and they believe that it doesn't hurt and it doesn't. They are also part of a supporting community, something which is missing in our culture today with so many women focused on working rather than being at home and their mothers, aunties etc. who are out there working as well. Many young mothers have no one to turn to except their maternal health nurses. When I've attended a birth and wittness a woman giving birth gently and a midwife in tears because she hasn't wittnessed a natural birth for such a long time, I know that I'm on the right track. Mind you I have had the gruff midwives who tutt, tutt and try their bullying tactics but my couples stand their ground and often a midwife has stomped out of the room because she doesn't have the control
Re: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold
I had an interesting experience with a young couple in labour ward the other week. They were private patients and were quite primed for the epidural etc (and had been just threatened with a c/s for PROM) and had already received one dose of pethidine before handover, to me. It was obviously early labour and was starting to pick up. Anyway as this young mum was starting to struggle througgh her pethidine haze, I gave them a little talk about welcoming the contractions and that oxytocin was the love hormone encouraging them to caress and dance and him to massage and soothe her pain. They went for it with only a little bit of encouragement from me from time to time. She still had the epidural but she had been under a time line from her private ob and she passed it and ended up with a vaginal birth: he thought it was his threat of the c/s, I think it was my encouragement of enjoyment. Reframing is what we need in a nutshell. marilyn - Original Message - From: Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 4:57 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold Hi Diane, It's great to see these principles being taught so well. They do work when the necessary diligence is applied and the principles are being validated by neuroscience (at last). All we humans are hypnotising ourselves all the time (or being hypnotised by mass media) and it is about time we learnt how to self talk (hypnotise) ourselves for outcomes we desire and work with our biological intelligence, rather than against it. Fear (adrenalin, cortisol in excess etc) is such a powerful disruptor of healthy/normal biological functioning. Increasing prefrontal cortex activity helps people feel safe and over ride amygdala hijacks. see http://edition.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/11/07/brain.fear/index.html and http://edition.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/10/09/ego.pain.ap/index.html for a quick summary. Brain research is fascinating, liberating and exciting. It is busy validating what adepts and mystics (and people like Grantley Dick Read) have told us for ages. Brain research is also validating the value of story telling in midwifery care, getting women together, enjoying food together kitchen table wisdom, defusing women's fears and providing the kind of environment that enables undisturbed birth. It takes 'soft' data and makes it 'hard' - isn't that a funny metaphor for information? especially when applied to women's birth processes ;-) And a point of clarity? Is it pain threshold or tolerance or reframing? It seems to me that all of us go ouch when stuck with a pin, self talk can help us change our perception and reaction therefore our experience of phenomena. Just philosophising and musing. Perception and attitude are everything in my mind. in solidarity (thanks Justine) Carolyn Hastie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Diane Gardner Sent: Sunday, 26 October 2003 10:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold Hi Cheryl I work with HypnoBirthing (a method that a woman uses to put herself into self hypnosis while she is in labour). I have been a part of many births with couples and I know that the mind definitely has control of the sensation the body will feel. Many of my mums feel only pressure and they are awake and in control of their birthing. I have not had one negative birth story since I started practicing 3 years ago even when medical intervention was needed. The relaxation and breathing still continues even if medical intevention is required, although that doesn't happen anywhere near as often. I did have one that didn't have as much success. It was a mum who had her own business at home and WORKED long hours right up until she went into labour. I had my doubts when she was in her classes that she would have all the necessary rest her body and baby needed and that she would practice so that the relaxation process it would become automatic. The concept of HypnoBirthing came from an English Obstetricial, Grantly Dick Read who back in the 1912-14 wanted to know why some women went into labour and gave birth with no fuss while others suffered excruciating pain. His research showed that the ones who trusted in the natural function of their body and relaxed would give birth with no fuss and they did. Mind you he was nearly thrown out of his profession because of his outrageous ideas. Are they so outrageous? I know they aren't. I've seen that they aren't. He wrote the book Childbirth Without Fear that was first published in 1944 and reading it today it is still totally relevant althought the old fashioned languaging makes me smile. The program is trained here in Australia by Peter Jackson, in Bowral NSW, who is himself a midwife and last week in his training he had 14 midwives amongst the participants! They had seen HypnoBirthing in practice and wanted
Re: [ozmidwifery] Pain threshold
I don't know how we can change this perception when so few women actually get to experience a totally natural delivery. Even if induced a woman still considers her labour natural and thus thinks it hurts to bejeebus. I think books like the one Sarah Buckley is currently working on will help alter that perception but it will take a lot of information campaigning to change a paradigm that has existed for several generations. Cas. Cas, I so agree with you about the induced labour pain not necessarily being 'natural', but I haven't had an induction with my three. As a midwife I've seen some women go through some incredible pain for a very long time to achieve a vaginal birth. But some women seem to go through much more pain than others - why? Is it emotional and/or physically harder for some women every time. I find it interesting, because I had three vag labours ranging from 12-14 hr from first niggle to birth with all three of them. I can honestly say, for the first 10 hours of all them, the pain wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Watching and caring for women in labour before I did it myself made me think it could be pretty horrific. Admittedly the last few hours were damn hard work, and that slight stinging sensation with the crowning was a lot more than SLIGHT! I suppose we are all very different. It interests me as I have a girlfrind going back for her second birth, and is very frightened because her first labour was precipitate and an induction - and the worst part of the whole preg/birth spectrum for her. Cheryl _ Chat via SMS. Simply send 'CHAT' to 1889918. 33c per message sent. Free to receive. More info at http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/MoChat.asp?blipid=6800 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
