RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers
Hi Janet, I hesitated to read your birth story, but then felt like a wimp, and read it. I am pleased that I did, although am very sorry that you had that experience. I have shared the link with my colleagues at North Central Sub Branch of the Australian College of midwives. I hope that is ok, assumed it was at it is on the web. Maybe in some small way this may help a woman in the future to not receive such appalling treatment. Thankyou, Nicole. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:28 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers Hi Nicole, I wrote an enormous letter including my birth story to the hospital where my birthrape was perpetrated. It made no difference. I still have women from that hospital joining the birth trauma group I run on a regular basis. I don't understand why we consumers have to point out the violence in the system to those who work in it. If a woman says no and is disregarded, she will be traumatised. If a woman is separated from her baby and mocked by staff, she will be traumatised. If a woman screams Get out! in the middle of a VE because she has never experienced anything more excruciating in her life, it is clear to the meanest intelligence that there is a problem. To me this is like asking me to explain to my rapist that rape is bad. We know rape is bad, we shouldn't need to be told not to do it. The woman in those examples was me. You can read the story and complaint letter here http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14 J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers
That's great, Nicole. I'm always happy to talk about it : ) I was an academic teaching in a university prior to my birthrape and it ended my career so I still yearn to educate ; ) J - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:16 PM Subject: RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers Hi Janet, I hesitated to read your birth story, but then felt like a wimp, and read it. I am pleased that I did, although am very sorry that you had that experience. I have shared the link with my colleagues at North Central Sub Branch of the Australian College of midwives. I hope that is ok, assumed it was at it is on the web. Maybe in some small way this may help a woman in the future to not receive such appalling treatment. Thankyou, Nicole. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:28 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers Hi Nicole, I wrote an enormous letter including my birth story to the hospital where my birthrape was perpetrated. It made no difference. I still have women from that hospital joining the birth trauma group I run on a regular basis. I don't understand why we consumers have to point out the violence in the system to those who work in it. If a woman says no and is disregarded, she will be traumatised. If a woman is separated from her baby and mocked by staff, she will be traumatised. If a woman screams Get out! in the middle of a VE because she has never experienced anything more excruciating in her life, it is clear to the meanest intelligence that there is a problem. To me this is like asking me to explain to my rapist that rape is bad. We know rape is bad, we shouldn't need to be told not to do it. The woman in those examples was me. You can read the story and complaint letter here http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14 J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers
I did hear Liz speak at the ICM about how midwives coped with the change when birthing was removed from Byron. Surely if ever there would be a group of motivated consumers it would be in Byron, is MC active there??? Would be the perfect place for caseload midwifery. Wow, when did birthing get removed from Byron? Why? One great thing that is up north Di is the Natural Birth Education Research Institute in Lismore http://www.naturalbirth.org.au/index.html I believe too, that there are a couple of homebirth midwives up there. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers
Janet, After reading your story I feel so many things... To send you some more love across a couple of oceans is all I can think of right now... Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:28 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers Hi Nicole, I wrote an enormous letter including my birth story to the hospital where my birthrape was perpetrated. It made no difference. I still have women from that hospital joining the birth trauma group I run on a regular basis. I don't understand why we consumers have to point out the violence in the system to those who work in it. If a woman says no and is disregarded, she will be traumatised. If a woman is separated from her baby and mocked by staff, she will be traumatised. If a woman screams Get out! in the middle of a VE because she has never experienced anything more excruciating in her life, it is clear to the meanest intelligence that there is a problem. To me this is like asking me to explain to my rapist that rape is bad. We know rape is bad, we shouldn't need to be told not to do it. The woman in those examples was me. You can read the story and complaint letter here http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14 J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers
Not Sure when Abby, but births are now at Mullum and a few postnatal beds only at Byron. Di (Ive really blown my status as a lurker on the list this week!) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:17 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers I did hear Liz speak at the ICM about how midwives coped with the change when birthing was removed from Byron. Surely if ever there would be a group of motivated consumers it would be in Byron, is MC active there??? Would be the perfect place for caseload midwifery. Wow, when did birthing get removed from Byron? Why? One great thing that is up north Di is the Natural Birth Education Research Institute in Lismore http://www.naturalbirth.org.au/index.html I believe too, that there are a couple of homebirth midwives up there. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers
Thanks, Vedrana : ) It's a really good story to demonstrate that outcomes are not created solely through having support and being informed. You are really totally dependant on the hospital staff to treat you like a human. J - Original Message - From: Vedrana Valčić [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:24 PM Subject: RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers Janet, After reading your story I feel so many things... To send you some more love across a couple of oceans is all I can think of right now... Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:28 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers Hi Nicole, I wrote an enormous letter including my birth story to the hospital where my birthrape was perpetrated. It made no difference. I still have women from that hospital joining the birth trauma group I run on a regular basis. I don't understand why we consumers have to point out the violence in the system to those who work in it. If a woman says no and is disregarded, she will be traumatised. If a woman is separated from her baby and mocked by staff, she will be traumatised. If a woman screams Get out! in the middle of a VE because she has never experienced anything more excruciating in her life, it is clear to the meanest intelligence that there is a problem. To me this is like asking me to explain to my rapist that rape is bad. We know rape is bad, we shouldn't need to be told not to do it. The woman in those examples was me. You can read the story and complaint letter here http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14 J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers
Is anyone familiar with birthing services at Lismore? Is it woman centred, low intervention, midwife friendly care? Hi Di, I don't know what Lismore is like now, but after being transferred from Mullum ( which I found very interventionist with one midwife and very non with another, luck of the draw I guess), before my husband arrived, I was pinned to the bed during a contraction by a nurse and an Ob while he stuck his hand inside my vagina, while I screamed, N!!! It was an absolutely terrifying and traumatic experience. He then said, well, you'll just have to have a caeserean because you won't let me examine you. That was the start of a horrible time at Lismore, where I was 'not allowed' to have my daughter after the c section. I was then left in recovery for hours because noone was able to come and get me. Every time the nurses moved my bed, it flew down and eventually my mum noticed that at the end of the bed in BIG red letters it said, WARNING! THIS BED NEEDS TWO PEOPLE TO ADJUST IT , that was after two days of agony to my scar every time the bed was moved by ONE nurse. I was left ! for two hours holding my daughter ringing the buzzer as I couldn't move, and was given absolutely no advice or info regarding breastfeeding, recovery after a c section or any other kind of care or support. That is just a little of my experience at Lismore. I found the care and attitude of the staff appaulling. Maybe things have changed but not that I have heard of. If I thought it would get anywhere I would charge the Ob, I believe that was the first and only time in my life when I have been sexually abused. Not sure if any of that gives any info, but thought I'd share. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers
Dear Abby, (nice to see you pop up btw!) your experience sounds a lot like what happened to me at RWH in Melbourne. I complained to the hospital which tried really hard to fob me off and then had a mediation with the Health Services Commissioner. It had no effect on the hospital at all, and the Ob that raped me has gone back to the country from which she came. She was here learning how to be a better Ob... I really urge women to complain but it takes a lot of determination and support to do it and I had none with my complaint despite trying to find it. Thanks for sharing your terrible experience. I only wish people realised that our stories are not out of the ordinary but pretty normal experiences for birthing women in hospitals. Love and healing vibes to you, J xx -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers
Thanks Abby, Sounds like it was a dreadful time for you. I want to be fairly sure of where Im going before I find it too hard to live with. Your experience would have left me as a midwife traumatised too. I had a friend who birthed at Mullum and said her midwife was a bit dreadful too, she was a perm night person who usually avoided birthing suite. Di - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:31 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers Is anyone familiar with birthing services at Lismore? Is it woman centred, low intervention, midwife friendly care? Hi Di, I don't know what Lismore is like now, but after being transferred from Mullum ( which I found very interventionist with one midwife and very non with another, luck of the draw I guess), before my husband arrived, I was pinned to the bed during a contraction by a nurse and an Ob while he stuck his hand inside my vagina, while I screamed, N!!! It was an absolutely terrifying and traumatic experience. He then said, well, you'll just have to have a caeserean because you won't let me examine you. That was the start of a horrible time at Lismore, where I was 'not allowed' to have my daughter after the c section. I was then left in recovery for hours because noone was able to come and get me. Every time the nurses moved my bed, it flew down and eventually my mum noticed that at the end of the bed in BIG red letters it said, WARNING! THIS BED NEEDS TWO PEOPLE TO ADJUST IT , that was after two days of agony to my scar every time the bed was moved by ONE nurse. I was left ! for two hours holding my daughter ringing the buzzer as I couldn't move, and was given absolutely no advice or info regarding breastfeeding, recovery after a c section or any other kind of care or support. That is just a little of my experience at Lismore. I found the care and attitude of the staff appaulling. Maybe things have changed but not that I have heard of. If I thought it would get anywhere I would charge the Ob, I believe that was the first and only time in my life when I have been sexually abused. Not sure if any of that gives any info, but thought I'd share. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers
Sure am, Brenda. J - Original Message - From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:51 AM Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers Janet, Are you reading this ?? Brenda - Original Message - From: diane [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:32 AM Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers Thanks Abby, Sounds like it was a dreadful time for you. I want to be fairly sure of where Im going before I find it too hard to live with. Your experience would have left me as a midwife traumatised too. I had a friend who birthed at Mullum and said her midwife was a bit dreadful too, she was a perm night person who usually avoided birthing suite. Di - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:31 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers Is anyone familiar with birthing services at Lismore? Is it woman centred, low intervention, midwife friendly care? Hi Di, I don't know what Lismore is like now, but after being transferred from Mullum ( which I found very interventionist with one midwife and very non with another, luck of the draw I guess), before my husband arrived, I was pinned to the bed during a contraction by a nurse and an Ob while he stuck his hand inside my vagina, while I screamed, N!!! It was an absolutely terrifying and traumatic experience. He then said, well, you'll just have to have a caeserean because you won't let me examine you. That was the start of a horrible time at Lismore, where I was 'not allowed' to have my daughter after the c section. I was then left in recovery for hours because noone was able to come and get me. Every time the nurses moved my bed, it flew down and eventually my mum noticed that at the end of the bed in BIG red letters it said, WARNING! THIS BED NEEDS TWO PEOPLE TO ADJUST IT , that was after two days of agony to my scar every time the bed was moved by ONE nurse. I was left ! for two hours holding my daughter ringing the buzzer as I couldn't move, and was given absolutely no advice or info regarding breastfeeding, recovery after a c section or any other kind of care or support. That is just a little of my experience at Lismore. I found the care and attitude of the staff appaulling. Maybe things have changed but not that I have heard of. If I thought it would get anywhere I would charge the Ob, I believe that was the first and only time in my life when I have been sexually abused. Not sure if any of that gives any info, but thought I'd share. Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers
Hi Justine and everyone, I know I should complain, I tell all my clients to complain when things have been terrible. Until recently I found it very difficult to even think about what happened. I have had the forms to get my records for ages but am a little scared to read through them. I would like to know what the Ob had to say for himself. It is really hard to get anywhere with the HCCC from my experience. My sister had a terrible experience just over 18months ago, some may recall me posting, and she put in a complaint right away and pretty much she was told too bad, so sad. She is now claiming for damages and charging the hospital with some kind of entrapment, though it is all through a private lawyer and costing them heaps. All she really wants is an apology and some one to say they were wrong. A friend of mine was at a workshop on working with women that had been sexually abused. There was counsellors, nurses, psychologists, social workers etc etc there. She bought up the topic of sexual abuse during birth and most of them laughed saying that was impossible because it is what doctors and midwives need to do. Even the facilitator thought she was overreacting when she commented that for a lot of women the first time they are violated sexually is while they are birthing. I personally cannot see how it is any different just because it is a doctor or midwife. I will think more about pursuing the HCCC, but when I have mentioned it to my early childhood nurse ( just after it happened), my private Ob, the mental health team and my counsellor they all sort of dismissed it because the nurse and the Ob were 'professionals' just doing their job. Love Abby Can I suggest that unless women like you make complaints to the HCCC that these practices will remain and more women will feel violated from obstetric practice. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers
Hi Abby, We health professionals really need to be challenged to see these situations from our client's points of view. I don't know if it would get published, but even an anonymous open letter to health professionals in a professional journal may get the message out there, that we need to understand the consequences of our actions from not just an immediate clinical point of view, but also from the longer term consequences approach. These are hidden from health professionals in acute care settings, and I think we often just don't get it. I am sorry that you had that experience, and apologise to you on behalf of my health care professional colleagues. It is not good enough. Kind regards, Nicole Carver, Midwife. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:41 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers Hi Justine and everyone, I know I should complain, I tell all my clients to complain when things have been terrible. Until recently I found it very difficult to even think about what happened. I have had the forms to get my records for ages but am a little scared to read through them. I would like to know what the Ob had to say for himself. It is really hard to get anywhere with the HCCC from my experience. My sister had a terrible experience just over 18months ago, some may recall me posting, and she put in a complaint right away and pretty much she was told too bad, so sad. She is now claiming for damages and charging the hospital with some kind of entrapment, though it is all through a private lawyer and costing them heaps. All she really wants is an apology and some one to say they were wrong. A friend of mine was at a workshop on working with women that had been sexually abused. There was counsellors, nurses, psychologists, social workers etc etc there. She bought up the topic of sexual abuse during birth and most of them laughed saying that was impossible because it is what doctors and midwives need to do. Even the facilitator thought she was overreacting when she commented that for a lot of women the first time they are violated sexually is while they are birthing. I personally cannot see how it is any different just because it is a doctor or midwife. I will think more about pursuing the HCCC, but when I have mentioned it to my early childhood nurse ( just after it happened), my private Ob, the mental health team and my counsellor they all sort of dismissed it because the nurse and the Ob were 'professionals' just doing their job. Love Abby Can I suggest that unless women like you make complaints to the HCCC that these practices will remain and more women will feel violated from obstetric practice. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Rivers
Hi Nicole, I wrote an enormous letter including my birth story to the hospital where my birthrape was perpetrated. It made no difference. I still have women from that hospital joining the birth trauma group I run on a regular basis. I don't understand why we consumers have to point out the violence in the system to those who work in it. If a woman says no and is disregarded, she will be traumatised. If a woman is separated from her baby and mocked by staff, she will be traumatised. If a woman screams Get out! in the middle of a VE because she has never experienced anything more excruciating in her life, it is clear to the meanest intelligence that there is a problem. To me this is like asking me to explain to my rapist that rape is bad. We know rape is bad, we shouldn't need to be told not to do it. The woman in those examples was me. You can read the story and complaint letter here http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14 J -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
