Re: [PAYCO] Re: LAND REFORM
Izwe lethu Maforika Comrade Mawethu I fully agree with Cde Linda, the centre does not hold, it makes no sense to poor water into a bottomless pit or bucket. The centre does not hold, actually the centre is incapable to hold, yes we can discuss the document as proposed and advised by cde Ndamane but then what next? For example, EFF achieved more than 1 million votes mainly having a vibrant and articulate national leadership which worked on grounds with members and dialy. PAC National Leadership as it stands today compared to the EFF is remain incapable. EFF did not have branches and regional committees and structures but it had National and Provincial structures composed of a vibrant and determined leadership which was visible and articulated their own ideas without being apologetic, a leadership that inspired confidence among the people, our own Mo-Aforika wa Azania has been fully behind EFF given the extent of determination and organisation which lacked in the PAC. Let us learn from history and experience within the PAC's NECs performances. When Patricia De Lille stole the PAC parliamentary seat and formed ID in 2003 via floor crossing legislation, as PAC we were left only with Cde Motsoko Pheko as a member of Parliament. After PAC Soweto Congress NEC elected led by Dr Pheko in 2004 national election PAC got 113 512 votes and during local government elections obtained 306 747 votes which is a combination of ward + PR + DC Votes and gave PAC 1.2% which is more than 120 councillors the highest in the history of the PAC. The worse part of it for example, we were told that NACTU which has 300 000 members pledged to vote for PAC and EFF, we know that PAC has two NEC members namely Cde Moloto serving also as NACTU General Secretary and Cde Joseph Maqhekeni serving as NACTU President, SACWU President was on the PAC National List of Parliament, this make PAC to have more than 3 people forming part of NACTU Central Committee. And by the way BCAWU which led by PAC comrades has more than 25 000 members and SACWU has more than 15 000 members, Hotellica has more 5000 members, NUFBSAW has more than 5000 members, AMCU has more than 200 000 members BUT our PAC got just less than 40 000 votes during 7th May 2014 National Elections. Now as PAC members we must ask without fear or favour, how did it happen that NACTU with more 300 000 members did not vote PAC when we have more leaders of PAC serving and leading NACTU Central Committee? This points again to the very reality we are trying to avoid, which is, the current leadership of PAC is incapable to lead and grow PAC! Instead, they have become successful in sowing and deepening factionalism in the PAC. Comrade Fihla, for a senior party leader of your calibre to randomly use words such as enemy agents without proof is highly questionable especially during a robust debate, I am disappointed by the manner you addressed my view, however I must equally put before you a common sotho adage that moloi ga a ipolele and also one that says tshwene ga e ipone mariba. This generation of Mpethi-Moloto their time has past they had an opportunity since 2006 QwaQwa National Congress until, PAC requires generation change for once I fully agree with PAYCO and PASMA NEC Comrades, PAC needs new revolutionary blood to multiply its fortunes Comrades must realise time is moving and that we are growing old while the PAC is thrown to the periphery we should refuse to see PAC dying before our very own eyes, there is enough talent in PAC of comrades who can take PAC far and perform wonders. Izwe lethu Ndima On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 1:49 PM, 'Mawethu Sidzamba' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress payco@googlegroups.com wrote: Good day Comrades I think we have nothing to lose in engaging the document circulated by comrade Siya. The reason we are found wanting on matters we claim to have insight and knowledge of is because whenever there is an opportunity to influence debate and cerebrally apply ourselves on fundamental issues we instead blame others for our state of paralysis. Cde Ndima, while I wouldn't trivialize your thoughts on leadership allow me to state that they are not raised in the same unifying tone as the letter earlier circularized by Cde Matome Mashao. Quite honestly the discussion of the document as proposed by Cde Siya in fact reminds us of what we should be doing instead. Going back to your list, one comrade, to be specific Cde Nkrumah is on record having renounced the habit of including his name in what he termed efforts to perpetuate factions but I see persistence from some of us despite his candid admonishment. Once again I see no ideological nor political reasons why we should not engage the Rural Development Ministry Policy proposal as beckoned by Cde Siya. Please see this in context son of the soil, no offence intended. Mawethu On Friday, June 27, 2014 8:40 AM, Tongogara Ndima ndimatongog...@gmail.com wrote: Moaforika Siya Ndamane
Re: [PAYCO] Re: LAND REFORM
Izwe lethu Maforika Comrade Mawethu I fully agree with Cde Linda, the centre does not hold, it makes no sense to poor water into a bottomless pit or bucket. The centre does not hold, actually the centre is incapable to hold, yes we can discuss the document as proposed and advised by cde Ndamane but then what next? For example, EFF achieved more than 1 million votes mainly having a vibrant and articulate national leadership which worked on grounds with members and dialy. PAC National Leadership as it stands today compared to the EFF is remain incapable. EFF did not have branches and regional committees and structures but it had National and Provincial structures composed of a vibrant and determined leadership which was visible and articulated their own ideas without being apologetic, a leadership that inspired confidence among the people, our own Mo-Aforika wa Azania has been fully behind EFF given the extent of determination and organisation which lacked in the PAC.Barely eight months after it was formed, the EFF managed to garner 6.35% of the votes in the national elections in May 2014 National and Provincial Elections. Let us learn from history and experience within the PAC's NECs performances. When Patricia De Lille stole the PAC parliamentary seat and formed ID in 2003 via floor crossing legislation, as PAC we were left only with Cde Motsoko Pheko as a member of Parliament. After PAC Soweto Congress NEC elected led by Dr Pheko in 2004 national election PAC got 113 512 votes which was 3 Parliamentary Seats and during local government elections obtained 306 747 votes which is a combination of ward + PR + DC Votes and gave PAC 1.2% which is more than 120 councillors the highest in the history of the PAC. The worse part of it for example, we were told that NACTU which has 300 000 members pledged to vote for PAC and EFF, we know that PAC has two NEC members namely Cde Moloto serving also as NACTU General Secretary and Cde Joseph Maqhekeni serving as NACTU President, SACWU President was on the PAC National List of Parliament, this make PAC to have more than 3 people forming part of NACTU Central Committee. And by the way BCAWU which led by PAC comrades has more than 25 000 members and SACWU has more than 15 000 members, Hotellica has more 5000 members, NUFBSAW has more than 5000 members, AMCU has more than 200 000 members BUT our PAC got just less than 40 000 votes during 7th May 2014 National Elections. Now as PAC members we must ask without fear or favour, how did it happen that NACTU with more 300 000 members did not vote PAC when we have more leaders of PAC serving and leading NACTU Central Committee? This points again to the very reality we are trying to avoid, which is, the current leadership of PAC is incapable to lead and grow PAC! Instead, they have become successful in sowing and deepening factionalism in the PAC. Comrade Fihla, for a senior party leader of your calibre to randomly use words such as enemy agents without proof is highly questionable especially during a robust debate, I am disappointed by the manner you addressed my view, however I must equally put before you a common sotho adage that moloi ga a ipolele and also one that says tshwene ga e ipone mariba. This generation of Mpethi-Moloto their time has past they had an opportunity since 2006 QwaQwa National Congress until, PAC requires generation change for once I fully agree with PAYCO and PASMA NEC Comrades, PAC needs new revolutionary blood to multiply its fortunes Comrades must realise time is moving and that we are growing old while the PAC is thrown to the periphery we should refuse to see PAC dying before our very own eyes, there is enough talent in PAC of comrades who can take PAC far and perform wonders. Izwe lethu On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Tongogara Ndima ndimatongog...@gmail.com wrote: Izwe lethu Maforika Comrade Mawethu I fully agree with Cde Linda, the centre does not hold, it makes no sense to poor water into a bottomless pit or bucket. The centre does not hold, actually the centre is incapable to hold, yes we can discuss the document as proposed and advised by cde Ndamane but then what next? For example, EFF achieved more than 1 million votes mainly having a vibrant and articulate national leadership which worked on grounds with members and dialy. PAC National Leadership as it stands today compared to the EFF is remain incapable. EFF did not have branches and regional committees and structures but it had National and Provincial structures composed of a vibrant and determined leadership which was visible and articulated their own ideas without being apologetic, a leadership that inspired confidence among the people, our own Mo-Aforika wa Azania has been fully behind EFF given the extent of determination and organisation which lacked in the PAC. Let us learn from history and experience within the PAC's NECs performances. When Patricia De Lille stole the PAC parliamentary seat and formed
[PAYCO] Re: LAND REFORM
Joni, I get your point, but we must learn to come to a realization that those who choose to accept party leadership consciously and unconsciously accept criticism that comes with it. We can't treat those in leadership as demi-gods whose actions cannot be challenged. Can tell you with certainty that such thinking is unscientific and does not follow pan africanist tradition. Leadership must always strive for excellence and as members of the movement we should dare not accept mediocre. An impression should never be created that we just write criticism here and are not involved on party building processes on the ground. Rest assured son of the soil we are involve in recruiting members, building structures, propaganda work, representing the party on different platforms, campaigning for the party and financing party programmes (from transporting party members and supporters to events, purchasing flags, books and t-shirts to name but a few). These efforts become futile when the centre cannot hold and support them. This notion of dismissing arguments by saying people must engage on grassroot issues is silly, who must concern himself with national issues? What if you embark on a radical and militant programme that can result to people being arrested, injured and killed? Who will intervene and protect you from vultures if the centre cannot hold and cannot support your initiatives? Some of us we don't theorize about these things, we have led land invasions and violent protests and know the consequences that come with it. To survive the wrath that come with such revolutionary initiatives requires a strong and militant National Leadership that will take ownership of the programme and its consequences not dismiss you as criminal elements. In the letter and spirit of the letter written by cde Matome Mashao, its important that we all take the blame for the state in which the party finds itself including those who are in leadership. We must collectively craft a solution to rescue PAC out of this quagmire. As much as we appreciate the successes made under this leadership, we must not be blind to its failures in order to correct them in our march to take state power. Izwe lethu! Linda Kwame Ndebele Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! -Original Message- From: lamzi...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 17:23:05 To: kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za; Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudinrkgag...@gmail.com; 'Tongogara Ndima'ndimatongog...@gmail.com Reply-To: lamzi...@gmail.com Cc: sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; 'Admin @ Pac'ad...@pac.org.za; 'DSG @ PAC'd...@pac.org.za; 'Narius Moloto's...@pac.org.za; 'Mzwandile Montjane'montja...@yahoo.com; 'LEBOGANG GODFREY NGWATLE'ngwatl...@gmail.com; 'Tshwane PAC Region'pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; 'Vusi Mahlangu'vemahla...@gmail.com; 'Siphiwe Nofuma'paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; 'Apa Pooe'apap...@webmail.co.za; 'Michael Muendane'm...@soultalk.co.za; 'Gantsu'mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; mnyhon...@yahoo.com; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; 'Ike Mafole'mmaf...@gmail.com; 'Mohlomphegi Mphahlele'mphah...@gmail.com; 'Mbulelo Raymond'mrfihl...@gmail.com; victor.serakal...@dcs.gov.za; 'Sbusiso Xaba'sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; 'Sam Ditshego'sditsh...@ymail.com; richardma...@yahoo.com; 'Nakaphala Bauba'nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; babesmal...@gmail.com; 'Pinkie Monyane'monyanepin...@gmail.com; 'Johnson Mlambo'river.mla...@telkomsa.net; 'Khosi Maqetuka'maqetu...@gmail.com; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; 'justice mvakali'mvakalijust...@gmail.com; payco@googlegroups.com; 'Alton Mphethi'i...@bataufc.com; 'david mabitsela'mabitselada...@gmail.com Subject: Re: LAND REFORM Aluta Forcelami to keep on criticizing leadership won't help while ourselves on the ground we don't do anything, EFF had its own programs that lead them to what they have and we can't as an organization keep blaming everyone whose leading PAC. We need programs that will seek to address this system which can seriously be engaged in a planned and systematic way for the speedy reduction and eventual elimination of mass poverty, unemployment, exploitation of workers, women and child abuse, commodified education, Land, corruption, injustice and rural neglect. This are kind of programs we need embark into and stop this petty politic an cheap political scores. I'm a student at TUT we struggle a lot to find help from PAC due to this petty programs, we get we get expelled and victimized yearly. We need protection but how would we get it if the party is divided like this Ma joni this should stop I'm glad I'm saying this to senior cadres of the Movement. If PASMA tried to win election on campus level with Zero budget what make PAC fail? Is because of power conflict. Ma joni kaSobukwe is time for us to be reunited and push the vision of Mangaliso Sobukwe and we need equally to revise da party discipline and maintain it in a highest order. Kindly regards PASMA ground Soldier Sent from
[PAYCO] Know PAC Brief Insight Document
Izwe lethu M'Afrika Find attached Know PAC Brief Insight, which one strongly feels that the authors must rectify most of the contents of the document prior its distribution. The initiative is good to educate and promote the PAC, however usage of words and concepts should not be taken for granted when producing publication and expressing the PAC's belief system. Some of the errors identified are as follows:- On PAC Presidents it should start with Prof Robert Sobukwe and also add Clarence Mlamli Makwetu and Dr Motsoko Pheko who equally led PAC as a President. PAC thirds objective and the basic documents within the socialist economic system explicitly states states that To establish an Africanistic Socialist democratic social order, recognising the primacy of the vital material, intellectual and spiritual interests of the individual; but what is written in the Know PAC Brief Insight which The ownership and control of the economy of this country must be restructured to become owned and controlled by the State, popular trusts (by various groupings of the citizens), communities (trusts, cooperatives, funds, etc) workers and private individuals, this statement amounts to ideological misrepresentation because state ownership and control like in China amounts to another form of capitalism which is state capitalism not necessarily Scientific Socialism posits working class control and ownership of the means of production including determination of distribution. Taken further Socialism can further be expanded in terms of permanent revolution to entrench working class hegemony as a necessary path to radically root out the capitalist belief system from the society and create a new society. And furthermore the last part of the above sentence in Know PAC Brief Insight which is written as follows The ownership and control of the economy of this country must be restructured to become owned and controlled by .private individuals this advocates for retention and maintenance of capitalist social relation which makes the premise of the entire document to be not only capitalist orientated however it further falsely and a seriously distorts Pan Africanism and PAC as we know and understand. And this sentence in the Know PAC Brief Insight is a total joke and make mockery out of the PAC All citizens, except the elderly, children and seriously disabled, must engage in some economic productive activities with the state providing initial support. No free lunch and no dependency on Government' who said the elderly and the disable are incapable to make a meaningful contribution toward social economic development of a people? Discrimination of the elderly and disabled is commonly found among primitive and capitalist societies. And the entire Know PAC Brief Insight, it naively over simplifies the Health System for it is froth with poor comprehension and analysis of what constitutes an alternative socialist Health System. A country's health system is not necessarily limited and narrowed to the number of doctors in relation to patients, it is a complex system and cannot be reduced to having more paramedics than doctors will resolve the south Africa's health system crisis as the document suggests. The Know PAC Brief Insight advocates for more paramedics, now for purpose of clarity a paramedic implies or means a person who is trained to do medical work, especially emergency first aid, but such a person is not necessarily a fully qualified doctor nor a radiographer nor a nurse or a neurologist nor a medical scientist nor a hygiene specialist nor a dietician nor an ophthalmologist nor a dentist nor a pharmacist nor other essential health professional. And the policy positions on Know PAC Brief Insight must be removed until PAC Conference deliberates and recommends for congress to consider on policy proposals presented and adopted at the national congress. I suggest and humbly plead that this document must not distributed, it should be firstly read and proof read and further edited prior its distribution. PAC has adequate historians and literature expertise which should be utilised to ensure quality political literature is circulated. Nonetheless, the initiative a must be commended and supported. Shango lashu Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi -- -- Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordpress.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Pan Africanist Youth Congress group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to payco+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
