Re: [PAYCO]

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Cde Chargein

I requested that you define and describe factionalism and factions for us,
this will assist to move from the same wavelength.

There are members who resolved not to attend any event and meetings which
furthers factionalism. These are members keen to forge unity and are
working with other party members, thus parallel structures are on a decline
in many parts of Gauteng. The dying parallel structures will logically lead
to PAC hosting one inclusive party events, we can't oversimplify the task
to forge principled unity and defactionalise the party it's an internal
struggle in it's own nature given the ideological contradictions prevalent
within the party.

The decisive battle to be won it's when party members in mass reject and
denounce factional gatherings including a factional leaders and the same
members resort to forge unity from their respective areas and build from
that base.

Shango lashu
Nkrumah

On 12 Sep 2016 18:34, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:

> Comrade Nkrumah
>
> Theory is only good if it can address praxtical problems. You did
> explain how will your Bottom-up approach can solve current dilema in
> the Vaal. You did expolain why in Gaung there are two PAC rallIes
> whenever the Party commemorates important days in its calender if your
> apporoach works. You are two factions. That is clear. A united PAC in
> Gauteng is expected to hold one rally,, not two or more on the same
> day. May be there is lack of understanding of factions and
> factionalism here or defence of factionalism. That is another debate
> on its own.
>
> On 12/09/2016, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi  wrote:
> > Cde Chargein
> >
> > We run the risk to label everything and effort as a faction, please 1.
> > define and describe a faction.
> >
> > Secondly, it's evident we disagree on the approach to forge principled
> > unity. We advocate a Bottom-up approach which has proven itself to be
> most
> > effective to defactionalise, reconcile and forge unity in the PAC
> starting
> > from branch level leading to national level- national conference to
> > consolidate and create a PoA. Among many ingredients the bottom-Up
> approach
> > is Inclusive Branch and regional meetings to forge unity should be
> > facilitated by members accepted by such that the unification process is
> > credible and has integrity.  A party unification process which is members
> > centred and members driven premised on the very same principle of
> > Democratic Centralism.
> >
> > As opposed to members who are highly factionalised meeting for the first
> > time at a national conference hoping to achieve unity in less 48 hours
> > national conference.
> >
> > Shango lashu
> >
> > On 12 Sep 2016 16:42, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
> >
> >> Comrade Nkrumah
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The Top-up approach sounds good in theory but not in practice. The
> >> Marxist philosophy of dialectical materialism *“…emphasizes the
> >> dependence of theory on practice, emphasizes that theory is based on
> >> practice and in turn serves practice.”* [*Mao Tse Tung on Theory and
> >> Practice*]. Theory does not serve itself. The same applies to natural
> >> science and our current challenge to unite the PAC. That is, the
> >> correctness of the Top-up approach should be based on practice. Ours is
> >> to
> >> be put the Top-up approach on test through practice.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Let’s take, for example, the Vaal area as a typical case in hand. The
> >> Top-up approach assumes (makes hypothesis that) if comrade Apa Pooe (who
> >> belongs to Mphahlele faction) convenes a branch or regional meeting
> today
> >> that such a meeting will be attended by comrade Nthate (who belongs to
> >> Mbinda-Moloto faction) without any tensions ending up to verbal attacks
> >> and
> >> physical fights. That is incorrect. In the same meeting comrade
> >> Solundwane
> >> or Mabaso, a PAM member, are also expected to attend that meeting
> without
> >> tensions simmering. The same is true if the meeting is convened by cde
> >> Nthate or cde Mabaso. The meeting will fuel unnecessary tensions and
> will
> >> be a recipe for more conflict than unity. Remember all these factions
> >> still
> >> have scores to settle which are still there. They are gone just because
> >> of
> >> the talk for unity. In the same meeting convened by APA Pooe, President
> >> Mphahlele will be invited to address the meeting as a PAC President as
> it
> >> is the case now in every funeral chaired by his faction. If the meeting
> >> is
> >> called by cde Nthate, President Mbinda or Moloto will also be invited to
> >> address the meeting as the PAC President or Secretary General.  The same
> >> applies to President Maseko. He will address the meeting as a PAM
> >> President
> >> too. That will be confusion at its best, if not madness.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> All these comrades believe they were and are still correct in their
> views
> >> and acts. I personally believe our 

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nkrumah

Theory is only good if it can address praxtical problems. You did
explain how will your Bottom-up approach can solve current dilema in
the Vaal. You did expolain why in Gaung there are two PAC rallIes
whenever the Party commemorates important days in its calender if your
apporoach works. You are two factions. That is clear. A united PAC in
Gauteng is expected to hold one rally,, not two or more on the same
day. May be there is lack of understanding of factions and
factionalism here or defence of factionalism. That is another debate
on its own.

On 12/09/2016, Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi  wrote:
> Cde Chargein
>
> We run the risk to label everything and effort as a faction, please 1.
> define and describe a faction.
>
> Secondly, it's evident we disagree on the approach to forge principled
> unity. We advocate a Bottom-up approach which has proven itself to be most
> effective to defactionalise, reconcile and forge unity in the PAC starting
> from branch level leading to national level- national conference to
> consolidate and create a PoA. Among many ingredients the bottom-Up approach
> is Inclusive Branch and regional meetings to forge unity should be
> facilitated by members accepted by such that the unification process is
> credible and has integrity.  A party unification process which is members
> centred and members driven premised on the very same principle of
> Democratic Centralism.
>
> As opposed to members who are highly factionalised meeting for the first
> time at a national conference hoping to achieve unity in less 48 hours
> national conference.
>
> Shango lashu
>
> On 12 Sep 2016 16:42, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:
>
>> Comrade Nkrumah
>>
>>
>>
>> The Top-up approach sounds good in theory but not in practice. The
>> Marxist philosophy of dialectical materialism *“…emphasizes the
>> dependence of theory on practice, emphasizes that theory is based on
>> practice and in turn serves practice.”* [*Mao Tse Tung on Theory and
>> Practice*]. Theory does not serve itself. The same applies to natural
>> science and our current challenge to unite the PAC. That is, the
>> correctness of the Top-up approach should be based on practice. Ours is
>> to
>> be put the Top-up approach on test through practice.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let’s take, for example, the Vaal area as a typical case in hand. The
>> Top-up approach assumes (makes hypothesis that) if comrade Apa Pooe (who
>> belongs to Mphahlele faction) convenes a branch or regional meeting today
>> that such a meeting will be attended by comrade Nthate (who belongs to
>> Mbinda-Moloto faction) without any tensions ending up to verbal attacks
>> and
>> physical fights. That is incorrect. In the same meeting comrade
>> Solundwane
>> or Mabaso, a PAM member, are also expected to attend that meeting without
>> tensions simmering. The same is true if the meeting is convened by cde
>> Nthate or cde Mabaso. The meeting will fuel unnecessary tensions and will
>> be a recipe for more conflict than unity. Remember all these factions
>> still
>> have scores to settle which are still there. They are gone just because
>> of
>> the talk for unity. In the same meeting convened by APA Pooe, President
>> Mphahlele will be invited to address the meeting as a PAC President as it
>> is the case now in every funeral chaired by his faction. If the meeting
>> is
>> called by cde Nthate, President Mbinda or Moloto will also be invited to
>> address the meeting as the PAC President or Secretary General.  The same
>> applies to President Maseko. He will address the meeting as a PAM
>> President
>> too. That will be confusion at its best, if not madness.
>>
>>
>>
>> All these comrades believe they were and are still correct in their views
>> and acts. I personally believe our decision to form PAM was correct. I
>> still maintain my views till now. I need to be told that it was wrong.
>> The
>> same is true for Pooe and Nthate. They also believe they were and are
>> still
>> right. Even you comrade Nkrumah you believe you were and are still
>> correct
>> in your own views and acts. That is why there is the need for a special
>> conference or congress to iron out our differences, once and for all. We
>> need to be brutal frank to each other We are not in a revolution to nurse
>> each other’s egos and feelings. If we were all wrong we must be told in
>> no
>> uncertain terms to avoid the repeat of the same mistakes in the future.
>> All
>> these factions must admit they were wrong based on the PAC Basic
>> Documents
>> and be prepared to correct their attitudes and promise not to repeat the
>> same mistakes again. To cover up our wrongdoings  will be disservice to
>> PAC
>> and the revolution. We must all be prepared to take full responsibility
>> for
>> all our actions, not certain people. No one is exempted from making
>> mistakes in the revolution. I want to see that day whose hands are clean
>> in
>> the current crisis.
>>
>>
>>
>> As 

Re: [PAYCO]

[Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi]

Cde Chargein

We run the risk to label everything and effort as a faction, please 1.
define and describe a faction.

Secondly, it's evident we disagree on the approach to forge principled
unity. We advocate a Bottom-up approach which has proven itself to be most
effective to defactionalise, reconcile and forge unity in the PAC starting
from branch level leading to national level- national conference to
consolidate and create a PoA. Among many ingredients the bottom-Up approach
is Inclusive Branch and regional meetings to forge unity should be
facilitated by members accepted by such that the unification process is
credible and has integrity.  A party unification process which is members
centred and members driven premised on the very same principle of
Democratic Centralism.

As opposed to members who are highly factionalised meeting for the first
time at a national conference hoping to achieve unity in less 48 hours
national conference.

Shango lashu

On 12 Sep 2016 16:42, "Chargein Mabaso"  wrote:

> Comrade Nkrumah
>
>
>
> The Top-up approach sounds good in theory but not in practice. The
> Marxist philosophy of dialectical materialism *“…emphasizes the
> dependence of theory on practice, emphasizes that theory is based on
> practice and in turn serves practice.”* [*Mao Tse Tung on Theory and
> Practice*]. Theory does not serve itself. The same applies to natural
> science and our current challenge to unite the PAC. That is, the
> correctness of the Top-up approach should be based on practice. Ours is to
> be put the Top-up approach on test through practice.
>
>
>
> Let’s take, for example, the Vaal area as a typical case in hand. The
> Top-up approach assumes (makes hypothesis that) if comrade Apa Pooe (who
> belongs to Mphahlele faction) convenes a branch or regional meeting today
> that such a meeting will be attended by comrade Nthate (who belongs to
> Mbinda-Moloto faction) without any tensions ending up to verbal attacks and
> physical fights. That is incorrect. In the same meeting comrade Solundwane
> or Mabaso, a PAM member, are also expected to attend that meeting without
> tensions simmering. The same is true if the meeting is convened by cde
> Nthate or cde Mabaso. The meeting will fuel unnecessary tensions and will
> be a recipe for more conflict than unity. Remember all these factions still
> have scores to settle which are still there. They are gone just because of
> the talk for unity. In the same meeting convened by APA Pooe, President
> Mphahlele will be invited to address the meeting as a PAC President as it
> is the case now in every funeral chaired by his faction. If the meeting is
> called by cde Nthate, President Mbinda or Moloto will also be invited to
> address the meeting as the PAC President or Secretary General.  The same
> applies to President Maseko. He will address the meeting as a PAM President
> too. That will be confusion at its best, if not madness.
>
>
>
> All these comrades believe they were and are still correct in their views
> and acts. I personally believe our decision to form PAM was correct. I
> still maintain my views till now. I need to be told that it was wrong. The
> same is true for Pooe and Nthate. They also believe they were and are still
> right. Even you comrade Nkrumah you believe you were and are still correct
> in your own views and acts. That is why there is the need for a special
> conference or congress to iron out our differences, once and for all. We
> need to be brutal frank to each other We are not in a revolution to nurse
> each other’s egos and feelings. If we were all wrong we must be told in no
> uncertain terms to avoid the repeat of the same mistakes in the future. All
> these factions must admit they were wrong based on the PAC Basic Documents
> and be prepared to correct their attitudes and promise not to repeat the
> same mistakes again. To cover up our wrongdoings  will be disservice to PAC
> and the revolution. We must all be prepared to take full responsibility for
> all our actions, not certain people. No one is exempted from making
> mistakes in the revolution. I want to see that day whose hands are clean in
> the current crisis.
>
>
>
> As revolutionaries, we must not afraid of criticism. Let’s practice what
> we preach. Those who are opposed to the conference or congress are scared
> of maximum self-criticism and criticism. They are afraid to to correct
> their mistakes and are prepared to repeat them. They are cowards who always
> want to appear clean.
>
>
>
> The Top-up approach will definitely complicate matters. Let’s accept it.
>
>
>
> Currently, PAM members have experienced strange treatment at all unity
> meetings organised at branch, regional and provincial level by any faction.
> They are told to first disband PAM before unity is discussed or recognised
> within the PAC. Funny enough, the same does not apply to PAC factions which
> are multiplying day by day. WHY? The reasons are those factions do 

Re: [PAYCO]

[Chargein Mabaso]

Comrade Nkrumah



The Top-up approach sounds good in theory but not in practice. The Marxist
philosophy of dialectical materialism *“…emphasizes the dependence of
theory on practice, emphasizes that theory is based on practice and in turn
serves practice.”* [*Mao Tse Tung on Theory and Practice*]. Theory does not
serve itself. The same applies to natural science and our current challenge
to unite the PAC. That is, the correctness of the Top-up approach should be
based on practice. Ours is to be put the Top-up approach on test through
practice.



Let’s take, for example, the Vaal area as a typical case in hand. The
Top-up approach assumes (makes hypothesis that) if comrade Apa Pooe (who
belongs to Mphahlele faction) convenes a branch or regional meeting today
that such a meeting will be attended by comrade Nthate (who belongs to
Mbinda-Moloto faction) without any tensions ending up to verbal attacks and
physical fights. That is incorrect. In the same meeting comrade Solundwane
or Mabaso, a PAM member, are also expected to attend that meeting without
tensions simmering. The same is true if the meeting is convened by cde
Nthate or cde Mabaso. The meeting will fuel unnecessary tensions and will
be a recipe for more conflict than unity. Remember all these factions still
have scores to settle which are still there. They are gone just because of
the talk for unity. In the same meeting convened by APA Pooe, President
Mphahlele will be invited to address the meeting as a PAC President as it
is the case now in every funeral chaired by his faction. If the meeting is
called by cde Nthate, President Mbinda or Moloto will also be invited to
address the meeting as the PAC President or Secretary General.  The same
applies to President Maseko. He will address the meeting as a PAM President
too. That will be confusion at its best, if not madness.



All these comrades believe they were and are still correct in their views
and acts. I personally believe our decision to form PAM was correct. I
still maintain my views till now. I need to be told that it was wrong. The
same is true for Pooe and Nthate. They also believe they were and are still
right. Even you comrade Nkrumah you believe you were and are still correct
in your own views and acts. That is why there is the need for a special
conference or congress to iron out our differences, once and for all. We
need to be brutal frank to each other We are not in a revolution to nurse
each other’s egos and feelings. If we were all wrong we must be told in no
uncertain terms to avoid the repeat of the same mistakes in the future. All
these factions must admit they were wrong based on the PAC Basic Documents
and be prepared to correct their attitudes and promise not to repeat the
same mistakes again. To cover up our wrongdoings  will be disservice to PAC
and the revolution. We must all be prepared to take full responsibility for
all our actions, not certain people. No one is exempted from making
mistakes in the revolution. I want to see that day whose hands are clean in
the current crisis.



As revolutionaries, we must not afraid of criticism. Let’s practice what we
preach. Those who are opposed to the conference or congress are scared of
maximum self-criticism and criticism. They are afraid to to correct their
mistakes and are prepared to repeat them. They are cowards who always want
to appear clean.



The Top-up approach will definitely complicate matters. Let’s accept it.



Currently, PAM members have experienced strange treatment at all unity
meetings organised at branch, regional and provincial level by any faction.
They are told to first disband PAM before unity is discussed or recognised
within the PAC. Funny enough, the same does not apply to PAC factions which
are multiplying day by day. WHY? The reasons are those factions do not
believe there is crisis within the PAC and those socalled unity talks are
between PAM and one of the PAC factions, not between PAM and one, united
PAC. It is either between PAM and Mphahlele’s faction or Mbinda’s faction
or the new PAC faction formed, consciously or unconsciously, around Gauteng
which normally have rallies around Soweto not attending rallies organised
by Mbinda-Moloto’s faction. What do you call such meetings? They are
nothing but an attempt to consolidate individual factions turning them into
super-factions instead of uniting PAC. That is the true meaning of the
Top-up approach.



The Top-up approach is also doomed to fail. It will reach its political
cul-de-sac sooner than expected. It’s a waste of time and fruitless
exercise. It must be treated as such.



A new approach is needed if we are serious about PAC unity. A principled,
scientific approach based on the 1959 Basic Documents is the only solution
to the current PAC crisis. All factions and parties must, first, be
disbanded at a conference or congress level, not only PAM. That is what all
PAC factions do not want. A new leadership must be put in place based on

[PAYCO] Re: RE:

[Chargein Mabaso]

Shocking news! May his soul rest in peace.

On 12/09/2016, Mawabo Sijila  wrote:
> M-Afrika!
> Kungosizi ukuvakalisa ngokushiywa kwethu nguCde Lulamile Mdoda,
> ngokugwintwa/okanye ukukhuthuzwa, oonongqayi betalipokisi / oonqawayiphuzwa
> (amapolisa) basaphanda, ebekwindlela esingise emsebenzini kutshanje.
>
> Yanga umphefumlo wakhe ungalala ngoxolo.
>
> Uhambo lwakho ngesiquphe lusothusile Mzangwa, sisaman’ ukukuthundeza,
> singabanye nabanye, ngale naleya ngokwezigaba ebesisajonge ukuba
> mawuzifikelele njengomntu, njengabakhuluwa bakho nyana wesizwe.
>
> Izwe lethu iAfrika!
>
> Mawabo Sijila
>
>
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