Re: High fidelty and turntables today
I still like hi fi music through my surround sound. I like the sound of being right in the middle of the action. My opinion is that that's the way music should sound, but that's just me. - Original Message - From: Ray rays-h...@raynetbrm.plus.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:34 AM Subject: Re: High fidelty and turntables today Haven't got to the start of this thread, but oh my Word, fancy this coming up again. Agree with Steve Green about the snap crackle and pop, but these almost religeous disputes have gone on for ever, or since early recording history. there were and maybe still are, those who praised acoustic recording over electircal recording, and by itself that hints at more than a touch of the off the wall sort of attitudes around this. Yep, Hi Fi separates are good and even better, but there are some good integrated units about from high end manufacturers. I've had a QUAD audio system (British Hi Fi maker, now Chinese owned, for some 30 years or more and it sounds good and I've never had it repaired. In the end it is all subjective but I gave up on Hi Fi magazines when one reviewer pronounced that while auditioning a low-mid price system in his upstairs study, he could hear his wife downstairs playing the no compromise system down stairs, and despite the floor boards and carpets in between the system had more subtlety even through these than the more modest affair he was listening too. If you believe this sort of thing then you're on a different plannet to me! Ray. (Hoping this message gets through as Plusnet's giving me a hard time today.) Ray STEPHEN GREEN wrote: Oh, you can always hear the difference with vinyl - it goes click click pop flutter pop crackle wow click. Steve Green - Original Message - From: Bruce Toews br...@ogts.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:03 AM Subject: RE: High fidelty and turntables today The best way to do the vinyl versus CD test is blind, not knowing which you are hearing. If you do multiple, unpredictable trials of this manner, you will get a more unbiased opinion when you formulate one. Bruce On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, Walter Ramage wrote: Hi. In short the answer is yes, you will always get superior quality reproduction from dedicated Hi-Fi equipment. There has been and still is a raging debate between the exponents of Vinyl and CD. For the most part this debate is purely subjective since it really depends on your preferred listening experience. Some people like a very forward stereo image while others prefer the sound stage to be more set back behind the speakers. I have a friend who prefers his sound to be more recessed as I think it gives him a feeling of being in a concert hall, he is a great classical music fan and attends lots of concerts. Others enjoy a bright sound and yet others like firm and prominent bass. Promoters of the Vinyl will say that the sound is much warmer while the supporters of CD will say that CD is much more detailed all be it more clinical. The only way to compare what one prefers is to go to a specialist, and any good specialist will always recommend you listen to the product before purchasing and often have listening rooms in order to let you have a choice of different combination of equipment. In truth, you really do get what you pay for. I remember when I purchased a system some years ago; I was amazed just how by changing one amplifier for another, changed the sound quality. Even changing something as basic as the interconnects made a huge difference. Although you can audition the equipment, it isn't the same as having it in your own home and if you have a good relationship with any particular dealer they may allow you to take the equipment home and listen to it in situ. So vinyl versus CD is something each person must decide for himself or herself but bear in mind, Vinyl isn't as readily available as CD and it might take a bit of work tracking down the stuff your son is interested in. It is always wise to purchase audio separates as these components are designed with their purpose in mind where as combination systems always have some compromise whether it be the tuner, the CD player or the amplifier or speakers. As for the comparison between Hi-Fi components and PC or portable audio devices, in my opinion there is no competition. Basically a PC is a storage system and although it has the means of playing audio files, that isn't it's main purpose. You can get high quality sound cards but I fail to see how a?300 PC such as I am using now can compare with the ?1200 CD player on my Hi-Fi system. Another draw back is with file compression. MP3 files are the result of the original sound file being compressed to 10% of it's original size and hence has quality loss. These files are fine for their purpose but for serious listening, they lack quality. I
Re: High fidelty and turntables today
You can get a USB sound turntable at Radioshack, I don't remember the brand name. Sincerely, Jason known as Blind Fury windowslive contact kb3...@msn.com skype contact kb3icc - Original Message - From: Christopher Chaltain cchalt...@austin.rr.com To: PC audio discussion list. pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 3:09 PM Subject: High fidelty and turntables today I'm not exactly sure how to ask this, but I'm hoping to get some pointers to more information and some advice. My son is asking for a turntable for his birthday. I assumed it was to access music he can only find on vinyl, but he says it's for higher sound quality than he can get off of CD's or MP3's. I still have the component based stereo system I built when I was younger, which currently includes a receiver, DVD player and DVR. I retired my turntable and VCR a while ago. I would not be surprised if such a system, with high quality components, could produce better sound than you'd get off of a PC or portable media player. I guess I'm wondering a couple of things. Is this true that you can get better sound quality out of a high fidelity system than you can from a PC or portable media player? If so, how would you go about building such a system today? Would you do what I did years ago and start assembling your components? Could I get him a nice turntable that he could hook up to his PC for now and then include in a component based stereo system down the road? Thanks for any advice or pointers people could provide me. I haven't started looking around on the web, but I'm assuming I'd be overwhelmed with the amount of information out there on such a topic. -- Christopher cchalt...@austin.rr.com To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: High fidelty and turntables today
i love a good quality sound i come from the years of vinyel, and tapes and the like. - Original Message - From: Gary Wood k8...@comcast.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 1:31 AM Subject: Re: High fidelty and turntables today I still like hi fi music through my surround sound. I like the sound of being right in the middle of the action. My opinion is that that's the way music should sound, but that's just me. - Original Message - From: Ray rays-h...@raynetbrm.plus.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:34 AM Subject: Re: High fidelty and turntables today Haven't got to the start of this thread, but oh my Word, fancy this coming up again. Agree with Steve Green about the snap crackle and pop, but these almost religeous disputes have gone on for ever, or since early recording history. there were and maybe still are, those who praised acoustic recording over electircal recording, and by itself that hints at more than a touch of the off the wall sort of attitudes around this. Yep, Hi Fi separates are good and even better, but there are some good integrated units about from high end manufacturers. I've had a QUAD audio system (British Hi Fi maker, now Chinese owned, for some 30 years or more and it sounds good and I've never had it repaired. In the end it is all subjective but I gave up on Hi Fi magazines when one reviewer pronounced that while auditioning a low-mid price system in his upstairs study, he could hear his wife downstairs playing the no compromise system down stairs, and despite the floor boards and carpets in between the system had more subtlety even through these than the more modest affair he was listening too. If you believe this sort of thing then you're on a different plannet to me! Ray. (Hoping this message gets through as Plusnet's giving me a hard time today.) Ray STEPHEN GREEN wrote: Oh, you can always hear the difference with vinyl - it goes click click pop flutter pop crackle wow click. Steve Green - Original Message - From: Bruce Toews br...@ogts.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:03 AM Subject: RE: High fidelty and turntables today The best way to do the vinyl versus CD test is blind, not knowing which you are hearing. If you do multiple, unpredictable trials of this manner, you will get a more unbiased opinion when you formulate one. Bruce On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, Walter Ramage wrote: Hi. In short the answer is yes, you will always get superior quality reproduction from dedicated Hi-Fi equipment. There has been and still is a raging debate between the exponents of Vinyl and CD. For the most part this debate is purely subjective since it really depends on your preferred listening experience. Some people like a very forward stereo image while others prefer the sound stage to be more set back behind the speakers. I have a friend who prefers his sound to be more recessed as I think it gives him a feeling of being in a concert hall, he is a great classical music fan and attends lots of concerts. Others enjoy a bright sound and yet others like firm and prominent bass. Promoters of the Vinyl will say that the sound is much warmer while the supporters of CD will say that CD is much more detailed all be it more clinical. The only way to compare what one prefers is to go to a specialist, and any good specialist will always recommend you listen to the product before purchasing and often have listening rooms in order to let you have a choice of different combination of equipment. In truth, you really do get what you pay for. I remember when I purchased a system some years ago; I was amazed just how by changing one amplifier for another, changed the sound quality. Even changing something as basic as the interconnects made a huge difference. Although you can audition the equipment, it isn't the same as having it in your own home and if you have a good relationship with any particular dealer they may allow you to take the equipment home and listen to it in situ. So vinyl versus CD is something each person must decide for himself or herself but bear in mind, Vinyl isn't as readily available as CD and it might take a bit of work tracking down the stuff your son is interested in. It is always wise to purchase audio separates as these components are designed with their purpose in mind where as combination systems always have some compromise whether it be the tuner, the CD player or the amplifier or speakers. As for the comparison between Hi-Fi components and PC or portable audio devices, in my opinion there is no competition. Basically a PC is a storage system and although it has the means of playing audio files, that isn't it's main purpose. You can get high quality sound cards but I fail to see how
Re: High fidelty and turntables today
Oh, you can always hear the difference with vinyl - it goes click click pop flutter pop crackle wow click. Steve Green - Original Message - From: Bruce Toews br...@ogts.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:03 AM Subject: RE: High fidelty and turntables today The best way to do the vinyl versus CD test is blind, not knowing which you are hearing. If you do multiple, unpredictable trials of this manner, you will get a more unbiased opinion when you formulate one. Bruce On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, Walter Ramage wrote: Hi. In short the answer is yes, you will always get superior quality reproduction from dedicated Hi-Fi equipment. There has been and still is a raging debate between the exponents of Vinyl and CD. For the most part this debate is purely subjective since it really depends on your preferred listening experience. Some people like a very forward stereo image while others prefer the sound stage to be more set back behind the speakers. I have a friend who prefers his sound to be more recessed as I think it gives him a feeling of being in a concert hall, he is a great classical music fan and attends lots of concerts. Others enjoy a bright sound and yet others like firm and prominent bass. Promoters of the Vinyl will say that the sound is much warmer while the supporters of CD will say that CD is much more detailed all be it more clinical. The only way to compare what one prefers is to go to a specialist, and any good specialist will always recommend you listen to the product before purchasing and often have listening rooms in order to let you have a choice of different combination of equipment. In truth, you really do get what you pay for. I remember when I purchased a system some years ago; I was amazed just how by changing one amplifier for another, changed the sound quality. Even changing something as basic as the interconnects made a huge difference. Although you can audition the equipment, it isn't the same as having it in your own home and if you have a good relationship with any particular dealer they may allow you to take the equipment home and listen to it in situ. So vinyl versus CD is something each person must decide for himself or herself but bear in mind, Vinyl isn't as readily available as CD and it might take a bit of work tracking down the stuff your son is interested in. It is always wise to purchase audio separates as these components are designed with their purpose in mind where as combination systems always have some compromise whether it be the tuner, the CD player or the amplifier or speakers. As for the comparison between Hi-Fi components and PC or portable audio devices, in my opinion there is no competition. Basically a PC is a storage system and although it has the means of playing audio files, that isn't it's main purpose. You can get high quality sound cards but I fail to see how a?300 PC such as I am using now can compare with the ?1200 CD player on my Hi-Fi system. Another draw back is with file compression. MP3 files are the result of the original sound file being compressed to 10% of it's original size and hence has quality loss. These files are fine for their purpose but for serious listening, they lack quality. I listen to these files on my PC fed through a mid range HI-Fi system but for really serious listening I take the CD down to the big system and let it rip. I think it really depends on what your son wants to do and what he will be happy with a couple of years down the road. I think I will conclude with an illustration; Both a comfortable family car and a dump truck will get you from New York to California but I ask you, which would you prefer to travel in? On the other hand if you wanted to transport lots of garbage to the local dump, which vehicle would you rather use?If you want high quality sound reproduction then Hi-Fi separates is the route to take and the choice between CD and vinyl is a matter of personal choice after comparing the options. If you want a mass storage system for your audio files with a reasonably enjoyable listening experience then a good PC with a high quality sound card fed through a reasonable stereo system will do and you could enhance the sound quality by only listening to Wave files but that raises storage space questions. I'm sorry this has went on a bit but it isn't the sort of subject that merits a glib response. Walter. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: High fidelty and turntables today
Not on decent equipment with a clean needle and record... - Original Message - From: STEPHEN GREEN stephen.t...@ntlworld.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:52 AM Subject: Re: High fidelty and turntables today Oh, you can always hear the difference with vinyl - it goes click click pop flutter pop crackle wow click. Steve Green - Original Message - From: Bruce Toews br...@ogts.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:03 AM Subject: RE: High fidelty and turntables today The best way to do the vinyl versus CD test is blind, not knowing which you are hearing. If you do multiple, unpredictable trials of this manner, you will get a more unbiased opinion when you formulate one. Bruce On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, Walter Ramage wrote: Hi. In short the answer is yes, you will always get superior quality reproduction from dedicated Hi-Fi equipment. There has been and still is a raging debate between the exponents of Vinyl and CD. For the most part this debate is purely subjective since it really depends on your preferred listening experience. Some people like a very forward stereo image while others prefer the sound stage to be more set back behind the speakers. I have a friend who prefers his sound to be more recessed as I think it gives him a feeling of being in a concert hall, he is a great classical music fan and attends lots of concerts. Others enjoy a bright sound and yet others like firm and prominent bass. Promoters of the Vinyl will say that the sound is much warmer while the supporters of CD will say that CD is much more detailed all be it more clinical. The only way to compare what one prefers is to go to a specialist, and any good specialist will always recommend you listen to the product before purchasing and often have listening rooms in order to let you have a choice of different combination of equipment. In truth, you really do get what you pay for. I remember when I purchased a system some years ago; I was amazed just how by changing one amplifier for another, changed the sound quality. Even changing something as basic as the interconnects made a huge difference. Although you can audition the equipment, it isn't the same as having it in your own home and if you have a good relationship with any particular dealer they may allow you to take the equipment home and listen to it in situ. So vinyl versus CD is something each person must decide for himself or herself but bear in mind, Vinyl isn't as readily available as CD and it might take a bit of work tracking down the stuff your son is interested in. It is always wise to purchase audio separates as these components are designed with their purpose in mind where as combination systems always have some compromise whether it be the tuner, the CD player or the amplifier or speakers. As for the comparison between Hi-Fi components and PC or portable audio devices, in my opinion there is no competition. Basically a PC is a storage system and although it has the means of playing audio files, that isn't it's main purpose. You can get high quality sound cards but I fail to see how a?300 PC such as I am using now can compare with the ?1200 CD player on my Hi-Fi system. Another draw back is with file compression. MP3 files are the result of the original sound file being compressed to 10% of it's original size and hence has quality loss. These files are fine for their purpose but for serious listening, they lack quality. I listen to these files on my PC fed through a mid range HI-Fi system but for really serious listening I take the CD down to the big system and let it rip. I think it really depends on what your son wants to do and what he will be happy with a couple of years down the road. I think I will conclude with an illustration; Both a comfortable family car and a dump truck will get you from New York to California but I ask you, which would you prefer to travel in? On the other hand if you wanted to transport lots of garbage to the local dump, which vehicle would you rather use?If you want high quality sound reproduction then Hi-Fi separates is the route to take and the choice between CD and vinyl is a matter of personal choice after comparing the options. If you want a mass storage system for your audio files with a reasonably enjoyable listening experience then a good PC with a high quality sound card fed through a reasonable stereo system will do and you could enhance the sound quality by only listening to Wave files but that raises storage space questions. I'm sorry this has went on a bit but it isn't the sort of subject that merits a glib response. Walter. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from
RE: High fidelty and turntables today
Hi Bruce. I think what you say will only allow an individual to decide what he prefers. There is no definitive answer as to what format is superior as it always depends on what sounds good to any individual's ears. As to the Technical debate, well one could argue over this until the cows come home. In the end it is all about the music and many years ago I discovered that I an my friends were listening to the equipment and not what was being played upon it and thus, we were never satisfied. Now I listen to the music and try to get as much clarity as possible but if I enjoy what I hear, it doesn't matter what it is played on. Walter. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org]on Behalf Of Bruce Toews Sent: 08 June 2009 06:04 To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: RE: High fidelty and turntables today The best way to do the vinyl versus CD test is blind, not knowing which you are hearing. If you do multiple, unpredictable trials of this manner, you will get a more unbiased opinion when you formulate one. Bruce On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, Walter Ramage wrote: Hi. In short the answer is yes, you will always get superior quality reproduction from dedicated Hi-Fi equipment. There has been and still is a raging debate between the exponents of Vinyl and CD. For the most part this debate is purely subjective since it really depends on your preferred listening experience. Some people like a very forward stereo image while others prefer the sound stage to be more set back behind the speakers. I have a friend who prefers his sound to be more recessed as I think it gives him a feeling of being in a concert hall, he is a great classical music fan and attends lots of concerts. Others enjoy a bright sound and yet others like firm and prominent bass. Promoters of the Vinyl will say that the sound is much warmer while the supporters of CD will say that CD is much more detailed all be it more clinical. The only way to compare what one prefers is to go to a specialist, and any good specialist will always recommend you listen to the product before purchasing and often have listening rooms in order to let you have a choice of different combination of equipment. In truth, you really do get what you pay for. I remember when I purchased a system some years ago; I was amazed just how by changing one amplifier for another, changed the sound quality. Even changing something as basic as the interconnects made a huge difference. Although you can audition the equipment, it isn't the same as having it in your own home and if you have a good relationship with any particular dealer they may allow you to take the equipment home and listen to it in situ. So vinyl versus CD is something each person must decide for himself or herself but bear in mind, Vinyl isn't as readily available as CD and it might take a bit of work tracking down the stuff your son is interested in. It is always wise to purchase audio separates as these components are designed with their purpose in mind where as combination systems always have some compromise whether it be the tuner, the CD player or the amplifier or speakers. As for the comparison between Hi-Fi components and PC or portable audio devices, in my opinion there is no competition. Basically a PC is a storage system and although it has the means of playing audio files, that isn't it's main purpose. You can get high quality sound cards but I fail to see how a?300 PC such as I am using now can compare with the ?1200 CD player on my Hi-Fi system. Another draw back is with file compression. MP3 files are the result of the original sound file being compressed to 10% of it's original size and hence has quality loss. These files are fine for their purpose but for serious listening, they lack quality. I listen to these files on my PC fed through a mid range HI-Fi system but for really serious listening I take the CD down to the big system and let it rip. I think it really depends on what your son wants to do and what he will be happy with a couple of years down the road. I think I will conclude with an illustration; Both a comfortable family car and a dump truck will get you from New York to California but I ask you, which would you prefer to travel in? On the other hand if you wanted to transport lots of garbage to the local dump, which vehicle would you rather use?If you want high quality sound reproduction then Hi-Fi separates is the route to take and the choice between CD and vinyl is a matter of personal choice after comparing the options. If you want a mass storage system for your audio files with a reasonably enjoyable listening experience then a good PC with a high quality sound card fed through a reasonable stereo system will do and you could enhance the sound quality by only listening to Wave files but that raises storage space questions. I'm sorry this has went
RE: High fidelty and turntables today
You are quite correct, of course. I wasn't clear enough in my message. Thanks for adding this, I totally agree. Bruce On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 09:15:48 +0100, Walter Ramage w...@blueyonder.co.uk said: Hi Bruce. I think what you say will only allow an individual to decide what he prefers. There is no definitive answer as to what format is superior as it always depends on what sounds good to any individual's ears. As to the Technical debate, well one could argue over this until the cows come home. In the end it is all about the music and many years ago I discovered that I an my friends were listening to the equipment and not what was being played upon it and thus, we were never satisfied. Now I listen to the music and try to get as much clarity as possible but if I enjoy what I hear, it doesn't matter what it is played on. Walter. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org]on Behalf Of Bruce Toews Sent: 08 June 2009 06:04 To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: RE: High fidelty and turntables today The best way to do the vinyl versus CD test is blind, not knowing which you are hearing. If you do multiple, unpredictable trials of this manner, you will get a more unbiased opinion when you formulate one. Bruce On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, Walter Ramage wrote: Hi. In short the answer is yes, you will always get superior quality reproduction from dedicated Hi-Fi equipment. There has been and still is a raging debate between the exponents of Vinyl and CD. For the most part this debate is purely subjective since it really depends on your preferred listening experience. Some people like a very forward stereo image while others prefer the sound stage to be more set back behind the speakers. I have a friend who prefers his sound to be more recessed as I think it gives him a feeling of being in a concert hall, he is a great classical music fan and attends lots of concerts. Others enjoy a bright sound and yet others like firm and prominent bass. Promoters of the Vinyl will say that the sound is much warmer while the supporters of CD will say that CD is much more detailed all be it more clinical. The only way to compare what one prefers is to go to a specialist, and any good specialist will always recommend you listen to the product before purchasing and often have listening rooms in order to let you have a choice of different combination of equipment. In truth, you really do get what you pay for. I remember when I purchased a system some years ago; I was amazed just how by changing one amplifier for another, changed the sound quality. Even changing something as basic as the interconnects made a huge difference. Although you can audition the equipment, it isn't the same as having it in your own home and if you have a good relationship with any particular dealer they may allow you to take the equipment home and listen to it in situ. So vinyl versus CD is something each person must decide for himself or herself but bear in mind, Vinyl isn't as readily available as CD and it might take a bit of work tracking down the stuff your son is interested in. It is always wise to purchase audio separates as these components are designed with their purpose in mind where as combination systems always have some compromise whether it be the tuner, the CD player or the amplifier or speakers. As for the comparison between Hi-Fi components and PC or portable audio devices, in my opinion there is no competition. Basically a PC is a storage system and although it has the means of playing audio files, that isn't it's main purpose. You can get high quality sound cards but I fail to see how a?300 PC such as I am using now can compare with the ?1200 CD player on my Hi-Fi system. Another draw back is with file compression. MP3 files are the result of the original sound file being compressed to 10% of it's original size and hence has quality loss. These files are fine for their purpose but for serious listening, they lack quality. I listen to these files on my PC fed through a mid range HI-Fi system but for really serious listening I take the CD down to the big system and let it rip. I think it really depends on what your son wants to do and what he will be happy with a couple of years down the road. I think I will conclude with an illustration; Both a comfortable family car and a dump truck will get you from New York to California but I ask you, which would you prefer to travel in? On the other hand if you wanted to transport lots of garbage to the local dump, which vehicle would you rather use?If you want high quality sound reproduction then Hi-Fi separates is the route to take and the choice between CD and vinyl is a matter of personal choice after comparing the options. If you want a mass storage system for your audio
Re: High fidelty and turntables today
Haven't got to the start of this thread, but oh my Word, fancy this coming up again. Agree with Steve Green about the snap crackle and pop, but these almost religeous disputes have gone on for ever, or since early recording history. there were and maybe still are, those who praised acoustic recording over electircal recording, and by itself that hints at more than a touch of the off the wall sort of attitudes around this. Yep, Hi Fi separates are good and even better, but there are some good integrated units about from high end manufacturers. I've had a QUAD audio system (British Hi Fi maker, now Chinese owned, for some 30 years or more and it sounds good and I've never had it repaired. In the end it is all subjective but I gave up on Hi Fi magazines when one reviewer pronounced that while auditioning a low-mid price system in his upstairs study, he could hear his wife downstairs playing the no compromise system down stairs, and despite the floor boards and carpets in between the system had more subtlety even through these than the more modest affair he was listening too. If you believe this sort of thing then you're on a different plannet to me! Ray. (Hoping this message gets through as Plusnet's giving me a hard time today.) Ray STEPHEN GREEN wrote: Oh, you can always hear the difference with vinyl - it goes click click pop flutter pop crackle wow click. Steve Green - Original Message - From: Bruce Toews br...@ogts.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:03 AM Subject: RE: High fidelty and turntables today The best way to do the vinyl versus CD test is blind, not knowing which you are hearing. If you do multiple, unpredictable trials of this manner, you will get a more unbiased opinion when you formulate one. Bruce On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, Walter Ramage wrote: Hi. In short the answer is yes, you will always get superior quality reproduction from dedicated Hi-Fi equipment. There has been and still is a raging debate between the exponents of Vinyl and CD. For the most part this debate is purely subjective since it really depends on your preferred listening experience. Some people like a very forward stereo image while others prefer the sound stage to be more set back behind the speakers. I have a friend who prefers his sound to be more recessed as I think it gives him a feeling of being in a concert hall, he is a great classical music fan and attends lots of concerts. Others enjoy a bright sound and yet others like firm and prominent bass. Promoters of the Vinyl will say that the sound is much warmer while the supporters of CD will say that CD is much more detailed all be it more clinical. The only way to compare what one prefers is to go to a specialist, and any good specialist will always recommend you listen to the product before purchasing and often have listening rooms in order to let you have a choice of different combination of equipment. In truth, you really do get what you pay for. I remember when I purchased a system some years ago; I was amazed just how by changing one amplifier for another, changed the sound quality. Even changing something as basic as the interconnects made a huge difference. Although you can audition the equipment, it isn't the same as having it in your own home and if you have a good relationship with any particular dealer they may allow you to take the equipment home and listen to it in situ. So vinyl versus CD is something each person must decide for himself or herself but bear in mind, Vinyl isn't as readily available as CD and it might take a bit of work tracking down the stuff your son is interested in. It is always wise to purchase audio separates as these components are designed with their purpose in mind where as combination systems always have some compromise whether it be the tuner, the CD player or the amplifier or speakers. As for the comparison between Hi-Fi components and PC or portable audio devices, in my opinion there is no competition. Basically a PC is a storage system and although it has the means of playing audio files, that isn't it's main purpose. You can get high quality sound cards but I fail to see how a?300 PC such as I am using now can compare with the ?1200 CD player on my Hi-Fi system. Another draw back is with file compression. MP3 files are the result of the original sound file being compressed to 10% of it's original size and hence has quality loss. These files are fine for their purpose but for serious listening, they lack quality. I listen to these files on my PC fed through a mid range HI-Fi system but for really serious listening I take the CD down to the big system and let it rip. I think it really depends on what your son wants to do and what he will be happy with a couple of years down the road. I think I will conclude with an illustration; Both a comfortable family car and a dump
Re: High fidelty and turntables today
Chirstopher, only just got around to the first post - yours - in this thread. No, a turntable by itself won't be enough. You need a very high quality preamplifier to go between the turntable and the PC. You could by a preamp that handles magnetic cartridges which have a very low output - moving coil cartridges from people like Ortofon are even more feble in their output and need a really special and sensitive preamp. Separate preamps can be found, but I'm not into the HI Fi world enough these days to give names of manufacturers, and especially if, as I suspect, you are in the US. Hope that helps a bit. (By the way, the vinyl would have to be in tip top condition to justify all this expenditure. Ray Christopher Chaltain wrote: I'm not exactly sure how to ask this, but I'm hoping to get some pointers to more information and some advice. My son is asking for a turntable for his birthday. I assumed it was to access music he can only find on vinyl, but he says it's for higher sound quality than he can get off of CD's or MP3's. I still have the component based stereo system I built when I was younger, which currently includes a receiver, DVD player and DVR. I retired my turntable and VCR a while ago. I would not be surprised if such a system, with high quality components, could produce better sound than you'd get off of a PC or portable media player. I guess I'm wondering a couple of things. Is this true that you can get better sound quality out of a high fidelity system than you can from a PC or portable media player? If so, how would you go about building such a system today? Would you do what I did years ago and start assembling your components? Could I get him a nice turntable that he could hook up to his PC for now and then include in a component based stereo system down the road? Thanks for any advice or pointers people could provide me. I haven't started looking around on the web, but I'm assuming I'd be overwhelmed with the amount of information out there on such a topic. -- Christopher cchalt...@austin.rr.com To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: High fidelty and turntables today
I will never forget, though, an article I read some time ago about a study done in Britain. In it, they got together a bunch of die-hard audiofiles. They used the highes-end equipment, they used the same speakers and other equipment for all the tests, but they played music from CD and from vinyl. The subjects did not know which was the CD, which was the vinyl, or sometimes if the same medium were being played twice. Sometimes they heard only vinyl or only CD, they just had no idea, and they were asked to rate it. In many of the cases, subjects were convinced that they were listening to a vinyl recording and that it was vastly superior to the CD recording they'd heard, when in fact both times they'd heard the same recording. Overall, the study concluded, the preference was subjective and stemmed from existing biases. If a person has decided that vinyl does and always will sound better, then that is the case in their mind. Two sounds can be identical in every way, but for some people, if they believe one of them is vinyl while the other is not, they will vehemently insist that the vinyl one is superior, usually employing the enigmatically ondescript term warmer. Bruce On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 10:02:58 -0400, Bob Seed bobs...@tbaytel.net said: Most audio files that make a living listening to audio will swear that vinyl is the best, as it has a warmth that can not be duplicated by listening to CD's. The analogy that I once heard is like someone putting a q tip in your ear and turning it around. Not quite sure what the person meant by saying that other than this individual might have suffered from listening fatigue by listening to a lot of CD's. Personally I prefer vinyl, but here again I come from the old school of audio tape and vinyl records. In the haste to convert vinyl to CD's record companies didn't take the time to remaster the first generation of some of those old chestnuts that we grew up with in the 60's and 70's, and simply massed produced them flooding the marketplace with inferior quality product hoping that the gullibable public wouldn't notice the difference, as they would be playing the recording on home equipment that simply wouldn't measure up to professional studio audio. Home audio has come a long way over the past ten years or so, and is as good as some of the bottom line of professional broadcast equipment. Most broadcasters use off the shelf CD players in their studios, and if the CD player breaks down they simply throw it away and get a new one. A professional broadcast CD player will cost in the range of 2 to 3 grand. If listening to a radio station I don't think that you will notice a difference between an off the shelf home unit or a unit that is labelled as being professional. The professional units tend to be built better and take a licking and keep on ticking. When it comes to turntables broadcasters prefer the professional line of Technique, as the professional line has a variable pitch control. - Original Message - From: Bruce Toews br...@ogts.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:46 AM Subject: RE: High fidelty and turntables today You are quite correct, of course. I wasn't clear enough in my message. Thanks for adding this, I totally agree. Bruce On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 09:15:48 +0100, Walter Ramage w...@blueyonder.co.uk said: Hi Bruce. I think what you say will only allow an individual to decide what he prefers. There is no definitive answer as to what format is superior as it always depends on what sounds good to any individual's ears. As to the Technical debate, well one could argue over this until the cows come home. In the end it is all about the music and many years ago I discovered that I an my friends were listening to the equipment and not what was being played upon it and thus, we were never satisfied. Now I listen to the music and try to get as much clarity as possible but if I enjoy what I hear, it doesn't matter what it is played on. Walter. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org]on Behalf Of Bruce Toews Sent: 08 June 2009 06:04 To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: RE: High fidelty and turntables today The best way to do the vinyl versus CD test is blind, not knowing which you are hearing. If you do multiple, unpredictable trials of this manner, you will get a more unbiased opinion when you formulate one. Bruce On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, Walter Ramage wrote: Hi. In short the answer is yes, you will always get superior quality reproduction from dedicated Hi-Fi equipment. There has been and still is a raging debate between the exponents of Vinyl and CD. For the most part this debate is purely subjective since it really depends on your preferred listening experience. Some people like
High fidelty and turntables today
I'm not exactly sure how to ask this, but I'm hoping to get some pointers to more information and some advice. My son is asking for a turntable for his birthday. I assumed it was to access music he can only find on vinyl, but he says it's for higher sound quality than he can get off of CD's or MP3's. I still have the component based stereo system I built when I was younger, which currently includes a receiver, DVD player and DVR. I retired my turntable and VCR a while ago. I would not be surprised if such a system, with high quality components, could produce better sound than you'd get off of a PC or portable media player. I guess I'm wondering a couple of things. Is this true that you can get better sound quality out of a high fidelity system than you can from a PC or portable media player? If so, how would you go about building such a system today? Would you do what I did years ago and start assembling your components? Could I get him a nice turntable that he could hook up to his PC for now and then include in a component based stereo system down the road? Thanks for any advice or pointers people could provide me. I haven't started looking around on the web, but I'm assuming I'd be overwhelmed with the amount of information out there on such a topic. -- Christopher cchalt...@austin.rr.com To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: High fidelty and turntables today
Youa re going to get conflicting responses about this. Some will advocate a USB Turntable for the PC, but I personally think that defeats the purpose of why one would want such a thing. Yes, fidelity is higher with Turntables, open reels, etc. A PC would need a phono input to plug a turntable in. Phonos, as you should know, are preamplified. You are going to need to start building a high fidelity system for such a purpose. I'm not as up on the high fi world as I used to be even a few short years ago (I'm only 20), being more computer minded now, but I do think you're gonna have to do that now. - Original Message - From: Christopher Chaltain cchalt...@austin.rr.com To: PC audio discussion list. pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 3:09 PM Subject: High fidelty and turntables today I'm not exactly sure how to ask this, but I'm hoping to get some pointers to more information and some advice. My son is asking for a turntable for his birthday. I assumed it was to access music he can only find on vinyl, but he says it's for higher sound quality than he can get off of CD's or MP3's. I still have the component based stereo system I built when I was younger, which currently includes a receiver, DVD player and DVR. I retired my turntable and VCR a while ago. I would not be surprised if such a system, with high quality components, could produce better sound than you'd get off of a PC or portable media player. I guess I'm wondering a couple of things. Is this true that you can get better sound quality out of a high fidelity system than you can from a PC or portable media player? If so, how would you go about building such a system today? Would you do what I did years ago and start assembling your components? Could I get him a nice turntable that he could hook up to his PC for now and then include in a component based stereo system down the road? Thanks for any advice or pointers people could provide me. I haven't started looking around on the web, but I'm assuming I'd be overwhelmed with the amount of information out there on such a topic. -- Christopher cchalt...@austin.rr.com To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: High fidelty and turntables today
Oops, and inmy last message, I forgot to explain why USB Turntables aren't all that great, and that is because they're not built for fidelity, rather, they're built for in-expense, E.G. poor preamps. - Original Message - From: Nick G n...@hkcradio.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 3:52 PM Subject: Re: High fidelty and turntables today Youa re going to get conflicting responses about this. Some will advocate a USB Turntable for the PC, but I personally think that defeats the purpose of why one would want such a thing. Yes, fidelity is higher with Turntables, open reels, etc. A PC would need a phono input to plug a turntable in. Phonos, as you should know, are preamplified. You are going to need to start building a high fidelity system for such a purpose. I'm not as up on the high fi world as I used to be even a few short years ago (I'm only 20), being more computer minded now, but I do think you're gonna have to do that now. - Original Message - From: Christopher Chaltain cchalt...@austin.rr.com To: PC audio discussion list. pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 3:09 PM Subject: High fidelty and turntables today I'm not exactly sure how to ask this, but I'm hoping to get some pointers to more information and some advice. My son is asking for a turntable for his birthday. I assumed it was to access music he can only find on vinyl, but he says it's for higher sound quality than he can get off of CD's or MP3's. I still have the component based stereo system I built when I was younger, which currently includes a receiver, DVD player and DVR. I retired my turntable and VCR a while ago. I would not be surprised if such a system, with high quality components, could produce better sound than you'd get off of a PC or portable media player. I guess I'm wondering a couple of things. Is this true that you can get better sound quality out of a high fidelity system than you can from a PC or portable media player? If so, how would you go about building such a system today? Would you do what I did years ago and start assembling your components? Could I get him a nice turntable that he could hook up to his PC for now and then include in a component based stereo system down the road? Thanks for any advice or pointers people could provide me. I haven't started looking around on the web, but I'm assuming I'd be overwhelmed with the amount of information out there on such a topic. -- Christopher cchalt...@austin.rr.com To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: High fidelty and turntables today
it has to do with the quality of sound card and the quality of cartridge in the turntable. Stanton would be a good quality cartridge, and some type of delta sound card with balanced ins and outs would be a good quality setup. - Original Message - From: Christopher Chaltain cchalt...@austin.rr.com To: PC audio discussion list. pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 3:09 PM Subject: High fidelty and turntables today I'm not exactly sure how to ask this, but I'm hoping to get some pointers to more information and some advice. My son is asking for a turntable for his birthday. I assumed it was to access music he can only find on vinyl, but he says it's for higher sound quality than he can get off of CD's or MP3's. I still have the component based stereo system I built when I was younger, which currently includes a receiver, DVD player and DVR. I retired my turntable and VCR a while ago. I would not be surprised if such a system, with high quality components, could produce better sound than you'd get off of a PC or portable media player. I guess I'm wondering a couple of things. Is this true that you can get better sound quality out of a high fidelity system than you can from a PC or portable media player? If so, how would you go about building such a system today? Would you do what I did years ago and start assembling your components? Could I get him a nice turntable that he could hook up to his PC for now and then include in a component based stereo system down the road? Thanks for any advice or pointers people could provide me. I haven't started looking around on the web, but I'm assuming I'd be overwhelmed with the amount of information out there on such a topic. -- Christopher cchalt...@austin.rr.com To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
RE: High fidelty and turntables today
And I believe ceramic cartridges also! -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Nick G Sent: 07 June 2009 09:57 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: High fidelty and turntables today Oops, and inmy last message, I forgot to explain why USB Turntables aren't all that great, and that is because they're not built for fidelity, rather, they're built for in-expense, E.G. poor preamps. - Original Message - From: Nick G n...@hkcradio.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 3:52 PM Subject: Re: High fidelty and turntables today Youa re going to get conflicting responses about this. Some will advocate a USB Turntable for the PC, but I personally think that defeats the purpose of why one would want such a thing. Yes, fidelity is higher with Turntables, open reels, etc. A PC would need a phono input to plug a turntable in. Phonos, as you should know, are preamplified. You are going to need to start building a high fidelity system for such a purpose. I'm not as up on the high fi world as I used to be even a few short years ago (I'm only 20), being more computer minded now, but I do think you're gonna have to do that now. - Original Message - From: Christopher Chaltain cchalt...@austin.rr.com To: PC audio discussion list. pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 3:09 PM Subject: High fidelty and turntables today I'm not exactly sure how to ask this, but I'm hoping to get some pointers to more information and some advice. My son is asking for a turntable for his birthday. I assumed it was to access music he can only find on vinyl, but he says it's for higher sound quality than he can get off of CD's or MP3's. I still have the component based stereo system I built when I was younger, which currently includes a receiver, DVD player and DVR. I retired my turntable and VCR a while ago. I would not be surprised if such a system, with high quality components, could produce better sound than you'd get off of a PC or portable media player. I guess I'm wondering a couple of things. Is this true that you can get better sound quality out of a high fidelity system than you can from a PC or portable media player? If so, how would you go about building such a system today? Would you do what I did years ago and start assembling your components? Could I get him a nice turntable that he could hook up to his PC for now and then include in a component based stereo system down the road? Thanks for any advice or pointers people could provide me. I haven't started looking around on the web, but I'm assuming I'd be overwhelmed with the amount of information out there on such a topic. -- Christopher cchalt...@austin.rr.com To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.55/2160 - Release Date: 06/07/09 05:53:00 To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
RE: High fidelty and turntables today
Hi. In short the answer is yes, you will always get superior quality reproduction from dedicated Hi-Fi equipment. There has been and still is a raging debate between the exponents of Vinyl and CD. For the most part this debate is purely subjective since it really depends on your preferred listening experience. Some people like a very forward stereo image while others prefer the sound stage to be more set back behind the speakers. I have a friend who prefers his sound to be more recessed as I think it gives him a feeling of being in a concert hall, he is a great classical music fan and attends lots of concerts. Others enjoy a bright sound and yet others like firm and prominent bass. Promoters of the Vinyl will say that the sound is much warmer while the supporters of CD will say that CD is much more detailed all be it more clinical. The only way to compare what one prefers is to go to a specialist, and any good specialist will always recommend you listen to the product before purchasing and often have listening rooms in order to let you have a choice of different combination of equipment. In truth, you really do get what you pay for. I remember when I purchased a system some years ago; I was amazed just how by changing one amplifier for another, changed the sound quality. Even changing something as basic as the interconnects made a huge difference. Although you can audition the equipment, it isn't the same as having it in your own home and if you have a good relationship with any particular dealer they may allow you to take the equipment home and listen to it in situ. So vinyl versus CD is something each person must decide for himself or herself but bear in mind, Vinyl isn't as readily available as CD and it might take a bit of work tracking down the stuff your son is interested in. It is always wise to purchase audio separates as these components are designed with their purpose in mind where as combination systems always have some compromise whether it be the tuner, the CD player or the amplifier or speakers. As for the comparison between Hi-Fi components and PC or portable audio devices, in my opinion there is no competition. Basically a PC is a storage system and although it has the means of playing audio files, that isn't it's main purpose. You can get high quality sound cards but I fail to see how a?300 PC such as I am using now can compare with the ?1200 CD player on my Hi-Fi system. Another draw back is with file compression. MP3 files are the result of the original sound file being compressed to 10% of it's original size and hence has quality loss. These files are fine for their purpose but for serious listening, they lack quality. I listen to these files on my PC fed through a mid range HI-Fi system but for really serious listening I take the CD down to the big system and let it rip. I think it really depends on what your son wants to do and what he will be happy with a couple of years down the road. I think I will conclude with an illustration; Both a comfortable family car and a dump truck will get you from New York to California but I ask you, which would you prefer to travel in? On the other hand if you wanted to transport lots of garbage to the local dump, which vehicle would you rather use?If you want high quality sound reproduction then Hi-Fi separates is the route to take and the choice between CD and vinyl is a matter of personal choice after comparing the options. If you want a mass storage system for your audio files with a reasonably enjoyable listening experience then a good PC with a high quality sound card fed through a reasonable stereo system will do and you could enhance the sound quality by only listening to Wave files but that raises storage space questions. I'm sorry this has went on a bit but it isn't the sort of subject that merits a glib response. Walter. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: High fidelty and turntables today
Thanks Walter! Let me be Glib! A turn table with a ceramic cartgidge is comparrable to a CD player playing quality mp3 files ripped onto a compact disk. Your Son will find no joy using todays crappy USB turn tables. If your going to do this then at least make sure you find a classic mid range turn table with a quality diamond tip cartredge. All the manufactures made pretty good turn tables in the day but, I personally would go with an old Duel or, Pioneer ,and a quality diamond tip Sure cartridge if you can find one. BTW: Vinal is making a come back to a certain degree these dayze. So much for being Glibb LOL - Original Message - From: Walter Ramage w...@blueyonder.co.uk To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 2:34 PM Subject: RE: High fidelty and turntables today Hi. In short the answer is yes, you will always get superior quality reproduction from dedicated Hi-Fi equipment. There has been and still is a raging debate between the exponents of Vinyl and CD. For the most part this debate is purely subjective since it really depends on your preferred listening experience. Some people like a very forward stereo image while others prefer the sound stage to be more set back behind the speakers. I have a friend who prefers his sound to be more recessed as I think it gives him a feeling of being in a concert hall, he is a great classical music fan and attends lots of concerts. Others enjoy a bright sound and yet others like firm and prominent bass. Promoters of the Vinyl will say that the sound is much warmer while the supporters of CD will say that CD is much more detailed all be it more clinical. The only way to compare what one prefers is to go to a specialist, and any good specialist will always recommend you listen to the product before purchasing and often have listening rooms in order to let you have a choice of different combination of equipment. In truth, you really do get what you pay for. I remember when I purchased a system some years ago; I was amazed just how by changing one amplifier for another, changed the sound quality. Even changing something as basic as the interconnects made a huge difference. Although you can audition the equipment, it isn't the same as having it in your own home and if you have a good relationship with any particular dealer they may allow you to take the equipment home and listen to it in situ. So vinyl versus CD is something each person must decide for himself or herself but bear in mind, Vinyl isn't as readily available as CD and it might take a bit of work tracking down the stuff your son is interested in. It is always wise to purchase audio separates as these components are designed with their purpose in mind where as combination systems always have some compromise whether it be the tuner, the CD player or the amplifier or speakers. As for the comparison between Hi-Fi components and PC or portable audio devices, in my opinion there is no competition. Basically a PC is a storage system and although it has the means of playing audio files, that isn't it's main purpose. You can get high quality sound cards but I fail to see how a?300 PC such as I am using now can compare with the ?1200 CD player on my Hi-Fi system. Another draw back is with file compression. MP3 files are the result of the original sound file being compressed to 10% of it's original size and hence has quality loss. These files are fine for their purpose but for serious listening, they lack quality. I listen to these files on my PC fed through a mid range HI-Fi system but for really serious listening I take the CD down to the big system and let it rip. I think it really depends on what your son wants to do and what he will be happy with a couple of years down the road. I think I will conclude with an illustration; Both a comfortable family car and a dump truck will get you from New York to California but I ask you, which would you prefer to travel in? On the other hand if you wanted to transport lots of garbage to the local dump, which vehicle would you rather use?If you want high quality sound reproduction then Hi-Fi separates is the route to take and the choice between CD and vinyl is a matter of personal choice after comparing the options. If you want a mass storage system for your audio files with a reasonably enjoyable listening experience then a good PC with a high quality sound card fed through a reasonable stereo system will do and you could enhance the sound quality by only listening to Wave files but that raises storage space questions. I'm sorry this has went on a bit but it isn't the sort of subject that merits a glib response. Walter. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4136 (20090606) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http
Re: High fidelty and turntables today
OK, thanks for all of the great advice! One question, assuming I have a good quality sound card, could I pull my 25 year old Pioneer out of the closet and hook it up to my PC? Would I need any equipment between the turntable and the soundcard in the PC? On 6/7/2009 3:46 PM, Keith Gillard wrote: Thanks Walter! Let me be Glib! A turn table with a ceramic cartgidge is comparrable to a CD player playing quality mp3 files ripped onto a compact disk. Your Son will find no joy using todays crappy USB turn tables. If your going to do this then at least make sure you find a classic mid range turn table with a quality diamond tip cartredge. All the manufactures made pretty good turn tables in the day but, I personally would go with an old Duel or, Pioneer ,and a quality diamond tip Sure cartridge if you can find one. BTW: Vinal is making a come back to a certain degree these dayze. So much for being Glibb LOL - Original Message - From: Walter Ramagew...@blueyonder.co.uk To: PC Audio Discussion Listpc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 2:34 PM Subject: RE: High fidelty and turntables today Hi. In short the answer is yes, you will always get superior quality reproduction from dedicated Hi-Fi equipment. There has been and still is a raging debate between the exponents of Vinyl and CD. For the most part this debate is purely subjective since it really depends on your preferred listening experience. Some people like a very forward stereo image while others prefer the sound stage to be more set back behind the speakers. I have a friend who prefers his sound to be more recessed as I think it gives him a feeling of being in a concert hall, he is a great classical music fan and attends lots of concerts. Others enjoy a bright sound and yet others like firm and prominent bass. Promoters of the Vinyl will say that the sound is much warmer while the supporters of CD will say that CD is much more detailed all be it more clinical. The only way to compare what one prefers is to go to a specialist, and any good specialist will always recommend you listen to the product before purchasing and often have listening rooms in order to let you have a choice of different combination of equipment. In truth, you really do get what you pay for. I remember when I purchased a system some years ago; I was amazed just how by changing one amplifier for another, changed the sound quality. Even changing something as basic as the interconnects made a huge difference. Although you can audition the equipment, it isn't the same as having it in your own home and if you have a good relationship with any particular dealer they may allow you to take the equipment home and listen to it in situ. So vinyl versus CD is something each person must decide for himself or herself but bear in mind, Vinyl isn't as readily available as CD and it might take a bit of work tracking down the stuff your son is interested in. It is always wise to purchase audio separates as these components are designed with their purpose in mind where as combination systems always have some compromise whether it be the tuner, the CD player or the amplifier or speakers. As for the comparison between Hi-Fi components and PC or portable audio devices, in my opinion there is no competition. Basically a PC is a storage system and although it has the means of playing audio files, that isn't it's main purpose. You can get high quality sound cards but I fail to see how a?300 PC such as I am using now can compare with the ?1200 CD player on my Hi-Fi system. Another draw back is with file compression. MP3 files are the result of the original sound file being compressed to 10% of it's original size and hence has quality loss. These files are fine for their purpose but for serious listening, they lack quality. I listen to these files on my PC fed through a mid range HI-Fi system but for really serious listening I take the CD down to the big system and let it rip. I think it really depends on what your son wants to do and what he will be happy with a couple of years down the road. I think I will conclude with an illustration; Both a comfortable family car and a dump truck will get you from New York to California but I ask you, which would you prefer to travel in? On the other hand if you wanted to transport lots of garbage to the local dump, which vehicle would you rather use?If you want high quality sound reproduction then Hi-Fi separates is the route to take and the choice between CD and vinyl is a matter of personal choice after comparing the options. If you want a mass storage system for your audio files with a reasonably enjoyable listening experience then a good PC with a high quality sound card fed through a reasonable stereo system will do and you could enhance the sound quality by only listening to Wave files but that raises storage space questions. I'm sorry this has went on a bit but it isn't the sort of subject that merits
RE: High fidelty and turntables today
More than likely, you will need a phono pre-amp. Some inexpensive turntables have a built in one, but the higher end ones didn't. If you have to connect the turn table to the phono in on your amplifier or receiver, then you will need a pre-amp to use it with your PC. Hope this is helpful, /David -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 2:56 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: High fidelty and turntables today OK, thanks for all of the great advice! One question, assuming I have a good quality sound card, could I pull my 25 year old Pioneer out of the closet and hook it up to my PC? Would I need any equipment between the turntable and the soundcard in the PC? On 6/7/2009 3:46 PM, Keith Gillard wrote: Thanks Walter! Let me be Glib! A turn table with a ceramic cartgidge is comparrable to a CD player playing quality mp3 files ripped onto a compact disk. Your Son will find no joy using todays crappy USB turn tables. If your going to do this then at least make sure you find a classic mid range turn table with a quality diamond tip cartredge. All the manufactures made pretty good turn tables in the day but, I personally would go with an old Duel or, Pioneer ,and a quality diamond tip Sure cartridge if you can find one. BTW: Vinal is making a come back to a certain degree these dayze. So much for being Glibb LOL - Original Message - From: Walter Ramagew...@blueyonder.co.uk To: PC Audio Discussion Listpc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 2:34 PM Subject: RE: High fidelty and turntables today Hi. In short the answer is yes, you will always get superior quality reproduction from dedicated Hi-Fi equipment. There has been and still is a raging debate between the exponents of Vinyl and CD. For the most part this debate is purely subjective since it really depends on your preferred listening experience. Some people like a very forward stereo image while others prefer the sound stage to be more set back behind the speakers. I have a friend who prefers his sound to be more recessed as I think it gives him a feeling of being in a concert hall, he is a great classical music fan and attends lots of concerts. Others enjoy a bright sound and yet others like firm and prominent bass. Promoters of the Vinyl will say that the sound is much warmer while the supporters of CD will say that CD is much more detailed all be it more clinical. The only way to compare what one prefers is to go to a specialist, and any good specialist will always recommend you listen to the product before purchasing and often have listening rooms in order to let you have a choice of different combination of equipment. In truth, you really do get what you pay for. I remember when I purchased a system some years ago; I was amazed just how by changing one amplifier for another, changed the sound quality. Even changing something as basic as the interconnects made a huge difference. Although you can audition the equipment, it isn't the same as having it in your own home and if you have a good relationship with any particular dealer they may allow you to take the equipment home and listen to it in situ. So vinyl versus CD is something each person must decide for himself or herself but bear in mind, Vinyl isn't as readily available as CD and it might take a bit of work tracking down the stuff your son is interested in. It is always wise to purchase audio separates as these components are designed with their purpose in mind where as combination systems always have some compromise whether it be the tuner, the CD player or the amplifier or speakers. As for the comparison between Hi-Fi components and PC or portable audio devices, in my opinion there is no competition. Basically a PC is a storage system and although it has the means of playing audio files, that isn't it's main purpose. You can get high quality sound cards but I fail to see how a?300 PC such as I am using now can compare with the ?1200 CD player on my Hi-Fi system. Another draw back is with file compression. MP3 files are the result of the original sound file being compressed to 10% of it's original size and hence has quality loss. These files are fine for their purpose but for serious listening, they lack quality. I listen to these files on my PC fed through a mid range HI-Fi system but for really serious listening I take the CD down to the big system and let it rip. I think it really depends on what your son wants to do and what he will be happy with a couple of years down the road. I think I will conclude with an illustration; Both a comfortable family car and a dump truck will get you from New York to California but I ask you, which would you prefer to travel in? On the other hand if you wanted to transport lots of garbage to the local dump, which
Re: High fidelty and turntables today
you are going to need a good preamp. once you hook up a preamp, then you have to determine if you have a moving magnet or moving coil cartridge. the latter will require a head amplifier. I have not known pioneer to come equipped with a moving coil cartridge. - Original Message - From: Christopher Chaltain cchalt...@austin.rr.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 5:55 PM Subject: Re: High fidelty and turntables today OK, thanks for all of the great advice! One question, assuming I have a good quality sound card, could I pull my 25 year old Pioneer out of the closet and hook it up to my PC? Would I need any equipment between the turntable and the soundcard in the PC? On 6/7/2009 3:46 PM, Keith Gillard wrote: Thanks Walter! Let me be Glib! A turn table with a ceramic cartgidge is comparrable to a CD player playing quality mp3 files ripped onto a compact disk. Your Son will find no joy using todays crappy USB turn tables. If your going to do this then at least make sure you find a classic mid range turn table with a quality diamond tip cartredge. All the manufactures made pretty good turn tables in the day but, I personally would go with an old Duel or, Pioneer ,and a quality diamond tip Sure cartridge if you can find one. BTW: Vinal is making a come back to a certain degree these dayze. So much for being Glibb LOL - Original Message - From: Walter Ramagew...@blueyonder.co.uk To: PC Audio Discussion Listpc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 2:34 PM Subject: RE: High fidelty and turntables today Hi. In short the answer is yes, you will always get superior quality reproduction from dedicated Hi-Fi equipment. There has been and still is a raging debate between the exponents of Vinyl and CD. For the most part this debate is purely subjective since it really depends on your preferred listening experience. Some people like a very forward stereo image while others prefer the sound stage to be more set back behind the speakers. I have a friend who prefers his sound to be more recessed as I think it gives him a feeling of being in a concert hall, he is a great classical music fan and attends lots of concerts. Others enjoy a bright sound and yet others like firm and prominent bass. Promoters of the Vinyl will say that the sound is much warmer while the supporters of CD will say that CD is much more detailed all be it more clinical. The only way to compare what one prefers is to go to a specialist, and any good specialist will always recommend you listen to the product before purchasing and often have listening rooms in order to let you have a choice of different combination of equipment. In truth, you really do get what you pay for. I remember when I purchased a system some years ago; I was amazed just how by changing one amplifier for another, changed the sound quality. Even changing something as basic as the interconnects made a huge difference. Although you can audition the equipment, it isn't the same as having it in your own home and if you have a good relationship with any particular dealer they may allow you to take the equipment home and listen to it in situ. So vinyl versus CD is something each person must decide for himself or herself but bear in mind, Vinyl isn't as readily available as CD and it might take a bit of work tracking down the stuff your son is interested in. It is always wise to purchase audio separates as these components are designed with their purpose in mind where as combination systems always have some compromise whether it be the tuner, the CD player or the amplifier or speakers. As for the comparison between Hi-Fi components and PC or portable audio devices, in my opinion there is no competition. Basically a PC is a storage system and although it has the means of playing audio files, that isn't it's main purpose. You can get high quality sound cards but I fail to see how a?300 PC such as I am using now can compare with the ?1200 CD player on my Hi-Fi system. Another draw back is with file compression. MP3 files are the result of the original sound file being compressed to 10% of it's original size and hence has quality loss. These files are fine for their purpose but for serious listening, they lack quality. I listen to these files on my PC fed through a mid range HI-Fi system but for really serious listening I take the CD down to the big system and let it rip. I think it really depends on what your son wants to do and what he will be happy with a couple of years down the road. I think I will conclude with an illustration; Both a comfortable family car and a dump truck will get you from New York to California but I ask you, which would you prefer to travel in? On the other hand if you wanted to transport lots of garbage to the local dump, which vehicle would you rather use?If you want high quality sound reproduction then Hi
Re: High fidelty and turntables today
Get a optamod equalizer as well and put it into the circuit, so that you can shape the audio to your liking, heheheh. - Original Message - From: David Edick mded...@yahoo.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 6:54 PM Subject: RE: High fidelty and turntables today More than likely, you will need a phono pre-amp. Some inexpensive turntables have a built in one, but the higher end ones didn't. If you have to connect the turn table to the phono in on your amplifier or receiver, then you will need a pre-amp to use it with your PC. Hope this is helpful, /David -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 2:56 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: High fidelty and turntables today OK, thanks for all of the great advice! One question, assuming I have a good quality sound card, could I pull my 25 year old Pioneer out of the closet and hook it up to my PC? Would I need any equipment between the turntable and the soundcard in the PC? On 6/7/2009 3:46 PM, Keith Gillard wrote: Thanks Walter! Let me be Glib! A turn table with a ceramic cartgidge is comparrable to a CD player playing quality mp3 files ripped onto a compact disk. Your Son will find no joy using todays crappy USB turn tables. If your going to do this then at least make sure you find a classic mid range turn table with a quality diamond tip cartredge. All the manufactures made pretty good turn tables in the day but, I personally would go with an old Duel or, Pioneer ,and a quality diamond tip Sure cartridge if you can find one. BTW: Vinal is making a come back to a certain degree these dayze. So much for being Glibb LOL - Original Message - From: Walter Ramagew...@blueyonder.co.uk To: PC Audio Discussion Listpc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 2:34 PM Subject: RE: High fidelty and turntables today Hi. In short the answer is yes, you will always get superior quality reproduction from dedicated Hi-Fi equipment. There has been and still is a raging debate between the exponents of Vinyl and CD. For the most part this debate is purely subjective since it really depends on your preferred listening experience. Some people like a very forward stereo image while others prefer the sound stage to be more set back behind the speakers. I have a friend who prefers his sound to be more recessed as I think it gives him a feeling of being in a concert hall, he is a great classical music fan and attends lots of concerts. Others enjoy a bright sound and yet others like firm and prominent bass. Promoters of the Vinyl will say that the sound is much warmer while the supporters of CD will say that CD is much more detailed all be it more clinical. The only way to compare what one prefers is to go to a specialist, and any good specialist will always recommend you listen to the product before purchasing and often have listening rooms in order to let you have a choice of different combination of equipment. In truth, you really do get what you pay for. I remember when I purchased a system some years ago; I was amazed just how by changing one amplifier for another, changed the sound quality. Even changing something as basic as the interconnects made a huge difference. Although you can audition the equipment, it isn't the same as having it in your own home and if you have a good relationship with any particular dealer they may allow you to take the equipment home and listen to it in situ. So vinyl versus CD is something each person must decide for himself or herself but bear in mind, Vinyl isn't as readily available as CD and it might take a bit of work tracking down the stuff your son is interested in. It is always wise to purchase audio separates as these components are designed with their purpose in mind where as combination systems always have some compromise whether it be the tuner, the CD player or the amplifier or speakers. As for the comparison between Hi-Fi components and PC or portable audio devices, in my opinion there is no competition. Basically a PC is a storage system and although it has the means of playing audio files, that isn't it's main purpose. You can get high quality sound cards but I fail to see how a?300 PC such as I am using now can compare with the ?1200 CD player on my Hi-Fi system. Another draw back is with file compression. MP3 files are the result of the original sound file being compressed to 10% of it's original size and hence has quality loss. These files are fine for their purpose but for serious listening, they lack quality. I listen to these files on my PC fed through a mid range HI-Fi system but for really serious listening I take the CD down to the big system and let it rip. I think it really depends on what your son wants to do and what he will be happy
RE: High fidelty and turntables today
The best way to do the vinyl versus CD test is blind, not knowing which you are hearing. If you do multiple, unpredictable trials of this manner, you will get a more unbiased opinion when you formulate one. Bruce On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, Walter Ramage wrote: Hi. In short the answer is yes, you will always get superior quality reproduction from dedicated Hi-Fi equipment. There has been and still is a raging debate between the exponents of Vinyl and CD. For the most part this debate is purely subjective since it really depends on your preferred listening experience. Some people like a very forward stereo image while others prefer the sound stage to be more set back behind the speakers. I have a friend who prefers his sound to be more recessed as I think it gives him a feeling of being in a concert hall, he is a great classical music fan and attends lots of concerts. Others enjoy a bright sound and yet others like firm and prominent bass. Promoters of the Vinyl will say that the sound is much warmer while the supporters of CD will say that CD is much more detailed all be it more clinical. The only way to compare what one prefers is to go to a specialist, and any good specialist will always recommend you listen to the product before purchasing and often have listening rooms in order to let you have a choice of different combination of equipment. In truth, you really do get what you pay for. I remember when I purchased a system some years ago; I was amazed just how by changing one amplifier for another, changed the sound quality. Even changing something as basic as the interconnects made a huge difference. Although you can audition the equipment, it isn't the same as having it in your own home and if you have a good relationship with any particular dealer they may allow you to take the equipment home and listen to it in situ. So vinyl versus CD is something each person must decide for himself or herself but bear in mind, Vinyl isn't as readily available as CD and it might take a bit of work tracking down the stuff your son is interested in. It is always wise to purchase audio separates as these components are designed with their purpose in mind where as combination systems always have some compromise whether it be the tuner, the CD player or the amplifier or speakers. As for the comparison between Hi-Fi components and PC or portable audio devices, in my opinion there is no competition. Basically a PC is a storage system and although it has the means of playing audio files, that isn't it's main purpose. You can get high quality sound cards but I fail to see how a?300 PC such as I am using now can compare with the ?1200 CD player on my Hi-Fi system. Another draw back is with file compression. MP3 files are the result of the original sound file being compressed to 10% of it's original size and hence has quality loss. These files are fine for their purpose but for serious listening, they lack quality. I listen to these files on my PC fed through a mid range HI-Fi system but for really serious listening I take the CD down to the big system and let it rip. I think it really depends on what your son wants to do and what he will be happy with a couple of years down the road. I think I will conclude with an illustration; Both a comfortable family car and a dump truck will get you from New York to California but I ask you, which would you prefer to travel in? On the other hand if you wanted to transport lots of garbage to the local dump, which vehicle would you rather use?If you want high quality sound reproduction then Hi-Fi separates is the route to take and the choice between CD and vinyl is a matter of personal choice after comparing the options. If you want a mass storage system for your audio files with a reasonably enjoyable listening experience then a good PC with a high quality sound card fed through a reasonable stereo system will do and you could enhance the sound quality by only listening to Wave files but that raises storage space questions. I'm sorry this has went on a bit but it isn't the sort of subject that merits a glib response. Walter. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
