Re: [PD-dev] Requesting SVN commit access
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 2014-02-26 04:57, Martin Peach wrote: I think that sending and receiving on the same port is not an intended use of the UDP protocol, which was designed for throw and forget messaging. how come? how does DNS (after all, a central service in the internet) work with this assumption? UDP works fine with as a challenge/response system (less so as client/server, given that there is no notion of a connection), and for responses you need o be able to send messages somewhere. for whatever reasons, many hardware manufacturers have the idea that sending/receiving on the *same* port is a good idea. fgmasdr IOhannes -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Icedove - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJTDaorAAoJELZQGcR/ejb4rfgQAIPEiBRhdvB70ciSHpQlaaLU UfBfe+b1WMNx7sHYlSatzRV7hml2Qor3uZtH//7FVgn0I3868fQVlBYXYhZZjDRp y6FfSgyU13M01/Qqjy1rmO2p+JVZYOmITIJqArMatWpo13oaBST8nAb5ZWt2sltM OJa4iLTCZz9ysjyk+WakXsj6qYH9dUNA5BMtEVeFfWY4yquAqhStPV12r7dcP8UU i8myFGpaLAO4v+zsx7uEhycXwS0Z0uklyYsVK/IuEWUwbwBw23fuiI5Pmes6r+n+ Nm09raqtlIj2zof0p2DxG+BvWEj7f9iTM3fGbPhlILaYRdviyPAtE+9w9f2roTxn 1aLy+G10SzRs2LSTlG4wotwowS5HTLmRXTeLp5grnK1DMx2bJPtu+J4mvzTuwfb1 7xJOwh8NoEcox4N7dABubAJ7Btt/VP0youZewaS3FWDm2t7QgP4RfYZq1kbpt/x+ lUft6qQ+J48DlWK6qdK/4lP+3vqsKd8wXffcrn4GQ4oSO7XFtZeGtjSJLMYvB+IV N+zEdLUkeQwcF7YyUm6kB8N87y4k+mbAiOqiN42i6bXJUG5tmrslGGnxV5Ou04uw URls1w2RZhlyCbbngsla7+SbsFY8bQsO01VpxE7vZVe50yUgPyghAzAfAlqzsXlj sYIDjn+IFnqisZEmhZik =of+H -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
Re: [PD-dev] Requesting SVN commit access
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 2014-02-26 04:57, Martin Peach wrote: how come? how does DNS (after all, a central service in the internet) work with this assumption? UDP works fine with as a challenge/response system (less so as client/server, given that there is no notion of a connection), and for responses you need o be able to send messages somewhere. for whatever reasons, many hardware manufacturers have the idea that sending/receiving on the *same* port is a good idea. fgmasdr IOhannes -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Icedove - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJTDaolAAoJELZQGcR/ejb4VtgP/AkEy3zIz0X1trSYIeODnWsM uYKxuNtxxF/g2ztIEnOusWeA4n4dZs7I7G4lnl8p7xFYnXQrRdDAHWcBaS1jy9vy nVd2A422gOAyXukAkVz+Fp2OIpWzQCLCXTZjs/kHZ42SFaeEz8eni7WdedCEv2F/ kPLPfOmkkMo19jCoijyQfTK6dI3u8o4gbeTczTgCWKcnu8kzc1oNag+Tcp0og60A +xmIYw9dgdH/RbZaPvy3f/7l+IXNgwXx10QQzI4kWVel4H7XYSpH0sgj6DN12n3N t51NhpDiHlCT/bbsSmLk6JxxJWjl1NYbdD+zxvl/wNjdbjU4TIP+8Jq+QiNFyhDk UlThYu9BTpv4YFNbDXiHPda9Y67QWAh4RWKhLn+49nMlwDEpkGowSpIXwXGwuDOj AUicvsRJcL+vjs/anA9aP7VfcLJNm86NMdH0TzcY7PRkFrLjwwyGbTaR0gsuIZtI U8oA4IHbe6kleTp6t8frziZhhuAKak4/vtgzRo+DAxP31SEM4zEGt3qr758hFezP mCaEeYdUtGeZqAPiLu+DPRQksWlxKzYI3TC5LIdRJYPwQxomOe4CDD9lzm8/tMLf j8niIXrUoACcvbsRvmdMqXP2pZvP29E0/iRQT4bCd0mpiS+Eqc6zR8QZGq+fMx4O ENfrT/PIxTLY6n3QZ/WL =wWmp -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
Re: [PD-dev] Requesting SVN commit access
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 (taking this back to the list) On 2014-02-26 14:55, Martin Peach wrote: On 2014-02-26 03:47, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 2014-02-26 04:57, Martin Peach wrote: how come? how does DNS (after all, a central service in the internet) work with this assumption? UDP works fine with as a challenge/response system (less so as client/server, given that there is no notion of a connection), and for responses you need o be able to send messages somewhere. for whatever reasons, many hardware manufacturers have the idea that sending/receiving on the *same* port is a good idea. I see; but for DNS with [udpsend] and [udpreceive], it should work since one [udpsend] can send to port 53 of the DNS server and a separate [udpreceive 53] will receive its replies. it seems i was a bit unclear here, and thus two separate things got mixed up: - DNS is a bi-directional protocol: you send a query (from a random port N) to a DNS-server (on port 53), and the server sends a response from port 53 to that port N. - hardware-manufacturers like the idea that the receiving port is the same as the sending port. DNS does not have this limitation of using the same port (thus you can query a DNS-server on localhost without stepping on your own ports). so having both [connect dns.server 53(-[udpsend] + [udpreceive 53] is not sufficient to query a DNS-server. The problem seems to be that [udpsend] will assign itself a random port to which the remote device will send replies, but [udpsend] doesn't know its own port number. well, but that's only half of the solution (for the DNS-problem): even if [udpsend] had a notion of it's sending port, it would discard all messages arriving on this port. but it still *listens* on (and thus blocks) this port, so you cannot tell a [udpreceive] to (also) use it. fg,asd IOhannes -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Icedove - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJTDf0gAAoJELZQGcR/ejb4+3gP/jHgX0wRrIBNPPMC92+y8ssL dokmoX/tQa5ZYhPwcUg68xwORPKzldql2PsMx1hY19ud9kzoIbFXmfy/uBk9mTNX VATEb2d7vMY5lk3/iGApefl+gnugm9rCPyD88J80U/Q5gRDBUvCFH1hbtABXccRA AXRGRcZ5C9pMYPlCE6R0O4EF0553Dudscsitu2/wMx+hpqAfdS51bIbwSd6vU56I CGIc3QIohipwnQmhMQ9EAdFD/i3zxXg2xuC5HzHpc/Q4hipsuw0169V19pn6ucFM yx6iKW2j6P60QW3D7y8betwyBOmRfgpyF9ip4AkDvWqZuzfng0YxAWco3v9rDpvZ PITxRicLL50EyemI1rms6mPiw6nWmATfbYSQBPGdxTG/J6vUBlijNdrl1FdEIv0n 7dyLOLMk4rmfGivSrKFBsX2JcicPPapUv9grpm4d277mIn+oFhMVurfWHHp5DiPJ m66KkWMYwiAqK1+TjMzI+PI9yK+3gYZy54ExXi8/xxlZjC1F8nNHNv0ti2z+uk/Z DUERnsE42nzZ2pxNKTsSkaNv3GHMAFe0H7MRsdUD5+3CrtqBuHLpyJIQxjEHmP/4 /BGNhFJXiGnK+MOb84/8kq2W0QkYoIvF2LDdUUV/qNbj1Z0b0Ft1cRJjBwELX5Is iDAK9hFfnmz7uzdFkVur =s8u4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
Re: [PD-dev] Requesting SVN commit access
Sorry - I thought that was addressed to my problem. Dennis Engdahl engd...@snowcrest.net (530) 926-2996 On Wed, 26 Feb 2014, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 09:47:44 +0100 From: IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at To: pd-dev@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD-dev] Requesting SVN commit access -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 2014-02-26 04:57, Martin Peach wrote: how come? how does DNS (after all, a central service in the internet) work with this assumption? UDP works fine with as a challenge/response system (less so as client/server, given that there is no notion of a connection), and for responses you need o be able to send messages somewhere. for whatever reasons, many hardware manufacturers have the idea that sending/receiving on the *same* port is a good idea. fgmasdr IOhannes -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Icedove - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJTDaolAAoJELZQGcR/ejb4VtgP/AkEy3zIz0X1trSYIeODnWsM uYKxuNtxxF/g2ztIEnOusWeA4n4dZs7I7G4lnl8p7xFYnXQrRdDAHWcBaS1jy9vy nVd2A422gOAyXukAkVz+Fp2OIpWzQCLCXTZjs/kHZ42SFaeEz8eni7WdedCEv2F/ kPLPfOmkkMo19jCoijyQfTK6dI3u8o4gbeTczTgCWKcnu8kzc1oNag+Tcp0og60A +xmIYw9dgdH/RbZaPvy3f/7l+IXNgwXx10QQzI4kWVel4H7XYSpH0sgj6DN12n3N t51NhpDiHlCT/bbsSmLk6JxxJWjl1NYbdD+zxvl/wNjdbjU4TIP+8Jq+QiNFyhDk UlThYu9BTpv4YFNbDXiHPda9Y67QWAh4RWKhLn+49nMlwDEpkGowSpIXwXGwuDOj AUicvsRJcL+vjs/anA9aP7VfcLJNm86NMdH0TzcY7PRkFrLjwwyGbTaR0gsuIZtI U8oA4IHbe6kleTp6t8frziZhhuAKak4/vtgzRo+DAxP31SEM4zEGt3qr758hFezP mCaEeYdUtGeZqAPiLu+DPRQksWlxKzYI3TC5LIdRJYPwQxomOe4CDD9lzm8/tMLf j8niIXrUoACcvbsRvmdMqXP2pZvP29E0/iRQT4bCd0mpiS+Eqc6zR8QZGq+fMx4O ENfrT/PIxTLY6n3QZ/WL =wWmp -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev ___ Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
[PD-dev] Requesting SVN commit access
To the list members: My name is Dennis Engdahl. I have been developing computer programs since the days of the keypunch (and paper tape), and have taught computer science at the college level for 20 years. I am now retired, and have started an internet providing company which my sons now run. I am an expert at communications software (TCP/IP, etc.), and am interested in pd to communicate with my church's new Behringer X32. Since the UDP routines Martin Peach wrote are not able to receive data successfully from the X32, I researched the problem and created a new routine which will communicate. If you're interested in the details, you can either look at my source, or pm me. At this time, I would like to commit this routine (udpsndrcv.c) and its help file to Martin's area, to allow others to communicate with hardware with the same requirements as the X32. I am interested also in the audio aspects of pd, and may be developing other routines to help out in the future. Please allow me SVN commit access to be able to accomplish this. Thank you, Dennis Engdahl engd...@snowcrest.net (530) 926-2996 ___ Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
Re: [PD-dev] Requesting SVN commit access
Yes I'd be happy to include anything that works better in mrpeach/net. I'm curious as to what is special about the Behringer X32 that makes it hard to communicate with the existing externals. Martin On 2014-02-25 12:53, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Hi Dennis, I'm not sure who has the keys to the kingdom here. But at far as the update for Martin's library you can just contact him directly (along with any documentation that explains your changes). Then he can push the updates himself. Generally that's the process for updates to preexisting libraries. Of course you can also get svn access to add your own library for other things. Best, Jonathan On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 10:29 AM, Dennis Engdahl engd...@snowcrest.net wrote: To the list members: My name is Dennis Engdahl. I have been developing computer programs since the days of the keypunch (and paper tape), and have taught computer science at the college level for 20 years. I am now retired, and have started an internet providing company which my sons now run. I am an expert at communications software (TCP/IP, etc.), and am interested in pd to communicate with my church's new Behringer X32. Since the UDP routines Martin Peach wrote are not able to receive data successfully from the X32, I researched the problem and created a new routine which will communicate. If you're interested in the details, you can either look at my source, or pm me. At this time, I would like to commit this routine (udpsndrcv.c) and its help file to Martin's area, to allow others to communicate with hardware with the same requirements as the X32. I am interested also in the audio aspects of pd, and may be developing other routines to help out in the future. Please allow me SVN commit access to be able to accomplish this. Thank you, Dennis Engdahl engd...@snowcrest.net mailto:engd...@snowcrest.net (530) 926-2996 ___ Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at mailto:Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev ___ Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev ___ Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
Re: [PD-dev] Requesting SVN commit access
I did try to contact Martin, and received no reply. If he sees this on the list, I would welcome communication from him. I still would like to have svn write access for the future, however, if possible. Dennis Engdahl engd...@snowcrest.net (530) 926-2996 On Tue, 25 Feb 2014, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 09:53:26 -0800 (PST) From: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com To: Dennis Engdahl engd...@snowcrest.net, pd-dev@iem.at pd-dev@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD-dev] Requesting SVN commit access Hi Dennis, I'm not sure who has the keys to the kingdom here. But at far as the update for Martin's library you can just contact him directly (along with any documentation that explains your changes). Then he can push the updates himself. Generally that's the process for updates to preexisting libraries. Of course you can also get svn access to add your own library for other things. Best, Jonathan On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 10:29 AM, Dennis Engdahl engd...@snowcrest.net wrote: To the list members: My name is Dennis Engdahl. I have been developing computer programs since the days of the keypunch (and paper tape), and have taught computer science at the college level for 20 years. I am now retired, and have started an internet providing company which my sons now run. I am an expert at communications software (TCP/IP, etc.), and am interested in pd to communicate with my church's new Behringer X32. Since the UDP routines Martin Peach wrote are not able to receive data successfully from the X32, I researched the problem and created a new routine which will communicate. If you're interested in the details, you can either look at my source, or pm me. At this time, I would like to commit this routine (udpsndrcv.c) and its help file to Martin's area, to allow others to communicate with hardware with the same requirements as the X32. I am interested also in the audio aspects of pd, and may be developing other routines to help out in the future. Please allow me SVN commit access to be able to accomplish this. Thank you, Dennis Engdahl engd...@snowcrest.net (530) 926-2996 ___ Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev ___ Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
Re: [PD-dev] Requesting SVN commit access
Hi Dennis, I didn't see any attachments to previous emails from you. I think that sending and receiving on the same port is not an intended use of the UDP protocol, which was designed for throw and forget messaging. It makes more sense to do this with TCP, which maintains a two-way connection. Can you connect to the X32 with TCP? Anyway, I'd like to see what you did. Martin On 2014-02-25 21:02, Dennis Engdahl wrote: Martin: I hope you received my previous e-mail with the attachment. If not, please let me know. The X32 responds to commands by sending the response to the IP and port from which it received the command. These are the problems with the present approach which my routine solves: 1. The from port used while sending a command is assigned by the system, and is not reported to the user. Therefore, the user has no way to set up a listener on that port to receive the X32's response. 2. Even if we modify the existing routines to allow the user to specify the from port, after doing so, the same port cannot be used again to set up udpreceive. The system returns an in use error when trying to do so. In Winsock, the from IP, from port, to IP, and to port must be unique for a connection to be set up. Since the user is specifying the from port, to IP, and to port, and since the from IP is static, only one connection can be set up at a time. Both udpsend and udpreceive try to set up a connection. If the from port is static, the second connection fails. My routine allows the setting of the from port. Then, my routine only sets up one connection, and sends and receives on that one connection. Since the user is specifying the from port, more than one connection can be established (by more than one patch) by specifying different (known) ports (see the help page for my routine.) Thank you for your response, Martin. I am more than willing for you to take over the routine if you wish, or to solve this another way if you wish. I just wish to communicate with the X32. Sincerely, Dennis Engdahl engd...@snowcrest.net (530) 926-2996 On Tue, 25 Feb 2014, Martin Peach wrote: Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 12:58:57 -0500 From: Martin Peach martin.pe...@sympatico.ca To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com, Dennis Engdahl engd...@snowcrest.net, pd-dev@iem.at pd-dev@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD-dev] Requesting SVN commit access Yes I'd be happy to include anything that works better in mrpeach/net. I'm curious as to what is special about the Behringer X32 that makes it hard to communicate with the existing externals. Martin On 2014-02-25 12:53, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Hi Dennis, I'm not sure who has the keys to the kingdom here. But at far as the update for Martin's library you can just contact him directly (along with any documentation that explains your changes). Then he can push the updates himself. Generally that's the process for updates to preexisting libraries. Of course you can also get svn access to add your own library for other things. Best, Jonathan On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 10:29 AM, Dennis Engdahl engd...@snowcrest.net wrote: To the list members: My name is Dennis Engdahl. I have been developing computer programs since the days of the keypunch (and paper tape), and have taught computer science at the college level for 20 years. I am now retired, and have started an internet providing company which my sons now run. I am an expert at communications software (TCP/IP, etc.), and am interested in pd to communicate with my church's new Behringer X32. Since the UDP routines Martin Peach wrote are not able to receive data successfully from the X32, I researched the problem and created a new routine which will communicate. If you're interested in the details, you can either look at my source, or pm me. At this time, I would like to commit this routine (udpsndrcv.c) and its help file to Martin's area, to allow others to communicate with hardware with the same requirements as the X32. I am interested also in the audio aspects of pd, and may be developing other routines to help out in the future. Please allow me SVN commit access to be able to accomplish this. Thank you, Dennis Engdahl engd...@snowcrest.net mailto:engd...@snowcrest.net (530) 926-2996 ___ Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at mailto:Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev ___ Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev ___ Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev ___ Pd-dev mailing list Pd-dev@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
