Re: [PD] RIP Stockhausen
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, Andy Farnell wrote: On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:41:32 +0100 Yvan Vander Sanden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And of coruse we must not forget he came from sirius to explain us all that :-) No way? A or B? I can't stand those wankers from Sirius B with their our star's brighter than yours crap. Or was he a scientologist, where do they come from again? Google for things like were descended from clams and you will find soon enough what the scientologist theory of evolution claims... _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [psql] object hand-holding
On Mon, 2007-12-10 at 18:07 -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: It seems many things use the ? alone as the unnamed placeholder, but I only saw MySQL using ?name for named placeholders. It does seem like a nicer syntax rather than using a different character. Perhaps, we should follow pgsql and use $ and $name, since $ is already a marker for replacement vars in Pd. I suppose that could get confusing in something like: SELECT id, ABS(($duration - $1)/$2) AS error FROM datatable ORDER BY error LIMIT 1 I vote that we use ? as a placeholder, and only support unnamed placeholders. We can use this to convert to whatever the db-specific placeholder system is inside the external. Jamie -- www.postlude.co.uk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [psql] object hand-holding
On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: while i basically agree with matju, that a consistent use of the data-flow paradigm should not be made the holy grail (if we don't want to end up fighting green knights), http://youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno i do think that we should bear data-flow (as opposed to control-flow) in mind and design objects accordingly. So do you want us to consider Gem as the bad example? _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [psql] object hand-holding
On Mon, 2007-12-10 at 15:00 -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Jamie Bullock wrote: Fair enough, I think I was probably stretching the point about using the [psql]-style of database connectivity requiring less objects. However, it's perfectly possible to have multiple [psql] instances connected to the same database, so the routing problem is a bit of a moot point. But it requires multiple logins, perhaps many at once, which might be wasteful. Not especially. For sharing database connections between several [psql] objects, what do you think would be the best ways to do it? This is supposing that several different database connections can still be used at once, as specified in the patches. I think this is a less trivial problem than it might appear. Having a global pointer representing the database connection seems dangerous and a bit naive. Perhaps some kind of callback-based mechanism between the database connection 'server' object and the 'client' query objects would be the way to go. Jamie -- www.postlude.co.uk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [psql] object hand-holding (fwd)
On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Try valgrind... best development tool of the decade, imho. Could you post some instructions on how to use valgrind to debug Pd related things on the dev docs wiki? It would be very useful: http://puredata.info/docs/developer You don't need any special instructions for that... usually just add 'valgrind' as a prefix on the commandline just like you would use the 'time' command. What do you want me to write? it could go like: STEP 1: run this: valgrind pd STEP 2: there is no STEP 2. (For debugging GridFlow, it's a different story, as nothing sets off false alarms in Valgrind like Ruby does, so filtres have to be put in place and stuff.) _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [psql] object hand-holding
On Mon, 2007-12-10 at 16:43 -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Mike McGonagle wrote: In one of the early prototypes I wrote for this, I set it up so that the connections were shared. Basically, when an object tried to open a connection, it would check if there was already one open, and if so, it would use that. Else it would create a new connection, which would then get stored in the global connection object. I think that the first argument of [psql] could be a receive-symbol, followed by the query itself. Then [psql] would not use the receive-symbol to send messages to, it would look at the receiver directly, checking that it's a [psql.connection] object, and then calling a function of that object directly, and get called back when a response is received. This is quite close to how [tabread] works except it inserts a [delay] before the result. It's how [tabread] would work if it were trying to access an array on another computer. I like this idea. What do you think about using an implicit receive-symbol, '$0-psql.1001', '$0-psql.1002' etc? Would it be possible for psql to automatically discover the psql.conn's receive symbol by using pd_findbyclass(), and then reading a variable in the object struct? Jamie -- www.postlude.co.uk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [psql] object hand-holding
Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: i do think that we should bear data-flow (as opposed to control-flow) in mind and design objects accordingly. So do you want us to consider Gem as the bad example? i don't claim that Gem is a good example. however, i also don't see how the data-flow vs control-flow is especially bad in Gem. mfgasdr IOhannes ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [psql] object hand-holding
On Mon, 2007-12-10 at 10:39 +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Thomas Grill hat gesagt: // Thomas Grill wrote: it's unfortunate that you are not thrilled using flext. Since flext uses the PD api to get lists or other messages into secondary inlets there's nothing to stop you from doing the same in psql. The magic words are proxy objects which you might find in the mailing list archive (or the flext source code, if you prefer that). Needless to say flext saves you from coding these things yourself in a time consuming manner and makes other things really easy, once you got it running. You could also compile pool then. The Python and Lua objects also support arbitrary messages on their inlets. Both languages have DB modules for just about every DB, compilation of these externals only has to be done only once. But as everyone knows that I don't really understand why a DB external has to be a C/C++ external, I'll better be quiet now. ;) Actually, please don't be quiet! When this was discussed some time ago, you mentioned Python as a solution, and my feeling was that if I write a piece and it uses some database connectivity, I don't really want to have to distribute a Python runtime, relevant Python SQL module, [py] and all the respective dependencies with it. I just (at most) want to include an external, and the databse library it uses. If I write a piece, I can't reasonably expect a performer to resolve all of this themselves - it needs to just work. I also want to minimise as much as possible the number of discrete components in the system that could possibly go wrong. However, Lua seems a slightly different story, ([lua] doesn't require flext, and Lua is very lean) - I'm starting to be convinced by it. It might be interesting to recreate [psql] using lua and luasql, and see how it measures up in terms of portability, ease of distribution and performance. I just downloaded [lua], and luasql, and It certainly didn't take long to get these things working on a basic level. Jamie -- www.postlude.co.uk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] phasor time scaling
On Sun, 2007-12-09 at 18:53 +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote: Suppose I have a phasor with period p1 (and thus freq=1/p1) and I want to generate a signal with p2 = 1.5 * p1. Then I have (at least) two ways to do this (| should indicate the jumps): p1: |.|.|.|.|.| p2a: |||| p2b: ..|||| Turn p1 and p2 around and you get a similar situation for trying to generate a phasor with a frequency of 1.5 times the original frequency: p2: |||| p1a: |.|.|.|.|.| p1b: ...|.|.|.|.|.| I suppose, you don't really care which sync point to use, only that both phasors sync at the least common multiple of their periods, right? That's where I suggested to use an additional phasor with a period of the LCM of the phasor signals you'd like to achieve in the end, and sync to that. (As the LCM of two numbers generally is larger than the single numbers, that phasor~ would be slower.) Ah, now I see what you're getting at. I think this is the solution I will probably go for, although I'm still curious to know how [rate~] works in Max/MSP. Maybe something along the lines of Cyrille's soluton... Jamie -- www.postlude.co.uk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] phasor time scaling
Jamie Bullock wrote: Hi Cyrille, well, the max~ 0 is not the perfect way to remove negative value. it would be beter to replace the negative value with the previus value. Are you saying that if one replaced the negative value with the previous value, the phasors _would_ be phase synced? It would certainly be possible to do this if I implemented it as an external. It would sync if the [phasor~] doesn't change frequency, otherwise some other kind of extrapolation to replace the negative value would work. Actually, if the [phasor~] is below the Nyquist frequency, shouldn't it be that you just add 1 to the negative value to get the correct positive increment? An external is probably best, with a wrap~ built into the integration loop, because summing lots of tiny values to a large accumulator leads to rounding errors pretty quickly. Thanks, Claude -- http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [psql] object hand-holding
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: From what I hear from Marius' struggles with pdlua, it's definitely not trivial, and I would say, I probably wouldn't call it easy either. If you read up on that thread, most of it is related to problems building Pd. Also Marius wanted to build OpenGL for Lua, which adds dependencies, of course. But Lua itself doesn't have any dependencies besides ANSI C. Building Lua on OS-X is just make macosx, building pdlua then just is something like: gcc $(CFLAGS) -bundle -undefined suppress -flat_namespace -o lua.pd_darwin lua.c -llua or whatever the current fashion of compiling C externals on OS-X is. CFLAGS should include the -I and -L lines to your Lua directory of course. Add -static and you get a static build that you can copy around without even needing to install Lua itself. I think, compiling an external doesn't get more simple than that. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] RIP Stockhausen
and even on flickr he is hard to focus on - is that art or science? or is he simply between the layers of focus? neither nearfield nor infinitely distant. only time (or periods, or phases, or whatever term he would be using) will tell. tm On 11/12/2007, at 1:16 AM, beau wrote: He'll be missed, but the music will live on: http://flickr.com/photos/cypod/2094889566/ On Dec 11, 2007 5:15 AM, Andy Farnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Siriusly though... I seem to recall Newton was something of an occultist. Einstein and many other scientists share beliefs in supernatural entities. Does that really effect the value of their work? By all accounts Stockhausen was an arrogant man, which perhaps explains his clumbsy explanations due to unwillingness to research and study others. But, whatever you think of the man and his ravings, the work stands on its merits because it confirms hypotheses and has predictive utility. That makes it science. Probably more so than Art imho. What kinda makes him great, but also a bit sad, is what he achieved was in isolation, like many who fall into the cracks between the pillars of established thought. andy On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:41:32 +0100 Yvan Vander Sanden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andy Farnell wrote: Of course he will always be remembered as an avant garde composer, but much of Stockhausens greatness is missed by artists who saw him as a pseudo-scientist and scientists who dismissed him as an artist. He was both at different times. A lack of rigor and precise voclabulary hides his contribution to psychoacoustics, he basically provided experimental support to Gabors theories, yet he is not mentioned once in critcal textbooks like McAdams and Bigand. And of coruse we must not forget he came from sirius to explain us all that :-) ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] hardcore nerd question
I as well recall something similar, but I don't recall where, the author, or even if it was a story or just a thought experiment; but I do recall someone making the claim that with the right listening equipment, in the right location, he could record Jesus' last moments on the cross. Makes me think of Contact, where the others received that one Hitler speech after 50 or 60 years. -Chuckk On Dec 11, 2007 3:47 PM, Andy Farnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a sci-fi story I once read, an inventor creates a device that can listen into the past by recovering long passed conversations from the thermal heat in a building. The author has totally slipped my mind. Does anyone remember this story and who wrote it? Cheers, Andy -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [psql] object hand-holding
Hallo, Jamie Bullock hat gesagt: // Jamie Bullock wrote: Actually, please don't be quiet! When this was discussed some time ago, you mentioned Python as a solution, and my feeling was that if I write a piece and it uses some database connectivity, I don't really want to have to distribute a Python runtime, relevant Python SQL module, [py] and all the respective dependencies with it. I just (at most) want to include an external, and the databse library it uses. If I write a piece, I can't reasonably expect a performer to resolve all of this themselves - it needs to just work. I also want to minimise as much as possible the number of discrete components in the system that could possibly go wrong. That's quite sensible. As soon as a DB interface is involved, one already has entered dependency hell, so minimizig further dependencies may be a valid goal. However a dependency on flext is just a dependency at compile time, so it's not really an additional dependency at runtime. A dependency on Python is kind of a dependency at runtime, as you need a possibly large Python installation. A dependency on Lua is also a runtime dependency, however as Lua is small, including it with the binaries will make the runtime dependency not matter. An immediate advantage of both Python and Lua is, that once the system is set up (easy with Lua, a bit tricky with pyext), the actual object code is just a textfile with a script. Especially as so far it's not even clear, how the SQL class in Pd should behave, this would allow rapid turnaround cycles in development. (For example I posted a working SQL object in Lua some weeks ago, and in Pyext some months ago, that took me about 20 minutes to write, including help-patch. In the case of Lua, I had never written SQL code in that language before. I wasn't so fast because I would be a genius programmer, but because the language is easier and no compilation is involved.) For a general purpose DB interface I would generally still prefer Python because threading is possible, but if ease of installation is a higher goal, Lua IMO even beats C-externals. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] hardcore nerd question
Yep, that's nailed it Ugur. It was The Dead Past in Earth is room enough. I've conflated it with something else more recent. Cheers for that. I was looking for ideas dealing with entropy vs radiation, stuff lost to the noise floor vs stuff that loses power but propagates to eternity. Interesting thing about the keyboard hack Chris, would one or two keypresses really leave a measurable signature or is this just fanciful Mission Impossible/James Bond stuff? On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:23:55 +0200 U__ur Güney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: # I hardly remember a story of Isaac Asimov in which he says that if such a device exists there can not be any privacy. Every conversation could be listened to by other one. But I think Asimov's device is related to visuals too, but the idea is similar... -ugur- On Dec 11, 2007 3:47 PM, Andy Farnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a sci-fi story I once read, an inventor creates a device that can listen into the past by recovering long passed conversations from the thermal heat in a building. The author has totally slipped my mind. Does anyone remember this story and who wrote it? Cheers, Andy -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] phasor time scaling
if you want to sync it, then just send a zero to the input phasor~ and output phasor~ at the same time. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] VOSIM with a tiny bug
Hi, attached is some stretched phasor~ fun for your classic synthesis methods class: an implementation of the VOSIM algorithm for speech synthesis etc. as invented by Kaegi/Templaars. My implementation is almost correct, but has a slight bug, which you can see if you set M and T to the values indicated by message boxes, set N to 2 or 3 and and set b to be larger than 0. Then the step function which scales the amplitude of the sin^2 pulses starts irregularily. I'm quite sure this comes from the way I use [samphold~] inside [vosim~] as it sometimes samples the wrong value. However I don't yet know of a proper workaround. (One workaround would be to just omit the samhold-step, but the result would not be VOSIM according to the textbooks.) So anybody with a good idea? Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ vosim~.pd Description: application/puredata vosim~-help.pd Description: application/puredata ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] hardcore nerd question
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:47:06 +0100 Frank Barknecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, Andy Farnell hat gesagt: // Andy Farnell wrote: Interesting thing about the keyboard hack Chris, would one or two keypresses really leave a measurable signature or is this just fanciful Mission Impossible/James Bond stuff? It's real: I saw this on TV in Bionic Woman recently, where the Bionic Woman with her cybernetically enhanced view managed to analyze which keys on an access control keypad had the most fingerprints. Then she just guessed the correct order of the numbers and went in. ;) They don't need bionics for that Frank, she uses some kind of shoe shop Jedi mind trick that makes _me_ press the buttons. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] VOSIM with a tiny bug
Hmm, isn't the second [wrap~] redundant anyway? On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:07:17 +0100 Frank Barknecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, attached is some stretched phasor~ fun for your classic synthesis methods class: an implementation of the VOSIM algorithm for speech synthesis etc. as invented by Kaegi/Templaars. My implementation is almost correct, but has a slight bug, which you can see if you set M and T to the values indicated by message boxes, set N to 2 or 3 and and set b to be larger than 0. Then the step function which scales the amplitude of the sin^2 pulses starts irregularily. I'm quite sure this comes from the way I use [samphold~] inside [vosim~] as it sometimes samples the wrong value. However I don't yet know of a proper workaround. (One workaround would be to just omit the samhold-step, but the result would not be VOSIM according to the textbooks.) So anybody with a good idea? Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] VOSIM with a tiny bug
I see the occasional spike on the rhs of samplehold so rescaling and clipping seems to fix it. Not a good solution because it fixes the symptom not the cause, but seems to work. On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:07:17 +0100 Frank Barknecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, attached is some stretched phasor~ fun for your classic synthesis methods class: an implementation of the VOSIM algorithm for speech synthesis etc. as invented by Kaegi/Templaars. My implementation is almost correct, but has a slight bug, which you can see if you set M and T to the values indicated by message boxes, set N to 2 or 3 and and set b to be larger than 0. Then the step function which scales the amplitude of the sin^2 pulses starts irregularily. I'm quite sure this comes from the way I use [samphold~] inside [vosim~] as it sometimes samples the wrong value. However I don't yet know of a proper workaround. (One workaround would be to just omit the samhold-step, but the result would not be VOSIM according to the textbooks.) So anybody with a good idea? Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ -- Use the source vosim-b~.pd Description: Binary data ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-dev] Error when crosscompiling pdlua
Martin Peach a écrit : Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Martin Peach hat gesagt: // Martin Peach wrote: With dlls you have to export symbols using a def file or /export: statement on the command line (or __declspec(dllexport) in the code with MSVC). On linux all symbols in a shared library are visible by default, it's about the structure of a windows dll versus that of a unix shared library, not gcc. So unless pd.dll is built with sys_loader exposed, I won't be able to build a loader-external, right? If so, then I'll let the MS-Windows-people take over building pdlua. Usually on Windows you link against pd.lib, not pd.dll, so it ought to work. You will need to include the header file containing sys_loader (except I can't find sys_loader anywhere in the pd source). Martin by the way, what is sys_loader() or what it is supposed to be? !There is no such thing like this in pd source, maybe it is sys_loaded() in s_loader.c? ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] VOSIM with a tiny bug
Hallo, Andy Farnell hat gesagt: // Andy Farnell wrote: Hmm, isn't the second [wrap~] redundant anyway? Theoretically yes, but practically it seems that adding the second wrap~ after wrap~ is exactly what fixes the problem! I even could omit the additions you made by just doing the seemingly idiotic: | [wrap~] | [wrap~] | (see attached) I'm a bit stumped! Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ vosim-c~.pd Description: application/puredata ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-dev] Error when crosscompiling pdlua
Patrice Colet wrote: by the way, what is sys_loader() or what it is supposed to be? !There is no such thing like this in pd source, maybe it is sys_loaded() in s_loader.c? it's the thing you register with sys_register_loader(), which provides a hook to add custom loader-code that can register object-classes which Pd would not know by default. mfga.sdr IOhannes ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] VOSIM with a tiny bug
Hmm, isn't the second [wrap~] redundant anyway? Theoretically yes, but practically it seems that adding the second wrap~ after wrap~ is exactly what fixes the problem! http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2007-05/049886.html Hope this helps... Claude ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] symbolatom: why does it not allow to type spaces?
if the situation with the symbolatom doesn't change i'd like to make a workaround where preferably [entry] is used, but if not available it will fall back to the symbol atom. is it possible to detect somehow if entry is loaded sucessfuly? max Am 11.12.2007 um 04:09 schrieb Chris McCormick: On Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 09:25:56PM +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote: before i change my policy about using externals in netpd, i would like to ask (probably miller?), if there is a chance, that symbolatom is changed accordingly in the future? When I asked about spaces in symbols on the pd-dev list Miller's reply was: 1. spaces in symbols are a parsing/formatting problem, not a data type problem. So that would indicate that he sees it as a problem that must be fixed. Be good if someone could submit a nice clean patch to fix the parsing problem and see if he accepts it. Another similar reply to the issue of symbol table saturation was 2. use arrays as strings as I proposed; which isn't currently possible in your use-case because the symbol input box itself won't let you input spaces to even get them into an array. Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list PGP.sig Description: Signierter Teil der Nachricht ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] VOSIM with a tiny bug
Hallo, Claude Heiland-Allen hat gesagt: // Claude Heiland-Allen wrote: Hmm, isn't the second [wrap~] redundant anyway? Theoretically yes, but practically it seems that adding the second wrap~ after wrap~ is exactly what fixes the problem! http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2007-05/049886.html Hope this helps... Ah, it's that one. Okay, I'll add one then. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] gridflow for expert people ?
Am 10.12.2007 um 02:13 schrieb Mathieu Bouchard: Note) On MacOS the dot-files are invisible in the Finder : are you sure ? Is there a Finder option to show dot-files? There's one on Linux. in the terminal type: defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles 1 then restart the finder and it will display all the hidden files too. another neat thing i discovered some days ago is if you naviagte in the terminal to a hidden folder and use the open command it will open the unvisible folder in the finder (try open /bin ) PGP.sig Description: Signierter Teil der Nachricht ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] mails from the future (was: VOSIM with a tiny bug)
no, here as well. and afaik, it's only andy's mails. probably not having set the clock to utc? roman On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 19:04 +0100, Andre Schmidt wrote: is this just me, or why are Andys emails always in the future ? my date is atm: Tue Dec 11 19:03:36 CET 2007 .andre On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 04:21 +, Andy Farnell wrote: Hmm, isn't the second [wrap~] redundant anyway? On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:07:17 +0100 Frank Barknecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, attached is some stretched phasor~ fun for your classic synthesis methods class: an implementation of the VOSIM algorithm for speech synthesis etc. as invented by Kaegi/Templaars. My implementation is almost correct, but has a slight bug, which you can see if you set M and T to the values indicated by message boxes, set N to 2 or 3 and and set b to be larger than 0. Then the step function which scales the amplitude of the sin^2 pulses starts irregularily. I'm quite sure this comes from the way I use [samphold~] inside [vosim~] as it sometimes samples the wrong value. However I don't yet know of a proper workaround. (One workaround would be to just omit the samhold-step, but the result would not be VOSIM according to the textbooks.) So anybody with a good idea? Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] mails from the future
would it be possible to get the timestamp from the mailinglist server? marius. Roman Haefeli wrote: no, here as well. and afaik, it's only andy's mails. probably not having set the clock to utc? roman On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 19:04 +0100, Andre Schmidt wrote: is this just me, or why are Andys emails always in the future ? my date is atm: Tue Dec 11 19:03:36 CET 2007 .andre On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 04:21 +, Andy Farnell wrote: Hmm, isn't the second [wrap~] redundant anyway? On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:07:17 +0100 Frank Barknecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, attached is some stretched phasor~ fun for your classic synthesis methods class: an implementation of the VOSIM algorithm for speech synthesis etc. as invented by Kaegi/Templaars. My implementation is almost correct, but has a slight bug, which you can see if you set M and T to the values indicated by message boxes, set N to 2 or 3 and and set b to be larger than 0. Then the step function which scales the amplitude of the sin^2 pulses starts irregularily. I'm quite sure this comes from the way I use [samphold~] inside [vosim~] as it sometimes samples the wrong value. However I don't yet know of a proper workaround. (One workaround would be to just omit the samhold-step, but the result would not be VOSIM according to the textbooks.) So anybody with a good idea? Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] RIP Stockhausen
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, Andy Farnell wrote: Of course he will always be remembered as an avant garde composer, but much of Stockhausens greatness is missed by artists who saw him as a pseudo-scientist and scientists who dismissed him as an artist. He was both at different times. A lack of rigor and precise voclabulary hides his contribution to psychoacoustics, he basically provided experimental support to Gabors theories, yet he is not mentioned once in critcal textbooks like McAdams and Bigand. Oh, that happens everywhere. If you're not part of a university or if you're just a student of some prof or if you're just a research assistant of some prof or if you write in a way that doesn't sound as stuck up as usual... in the latter case you might get told to just go the the philosophy department instead. of course, when you get there, the philosophers will wonder why anyone wanted to send you to the philosophy department in the first place. It's sad, for example, that you can't talk about the aesthetics of mathematical proofs without first getting out of your main topic and write something specifically about the aesthetics of mathematical proofs so that you can support a certain way of making proofs that you want to use in your specialty field and that otherwise may look inferior to other proofs under statu-quo aesthetic standards of mathematics. Of course it sounds a lot better if you don't have to cite your own article for supporting yourself. If I were writing in math, perhaps I would have an extensive network of pseudonyms writing in different fields. But then if you're in the middle of your masters then most likely you can't pull that trick and you have to submit yourself to your advisor. In any case, chances are that anyone reading your citation of a philosophical thingie will not bother reading the philosophical article and will not think at all about whether they should change their minds about the corresponding issue, so, in that case, my method of proof would still suck. (this is not all from personal experience, there's a little personal experience and the rest is extrapolation of what would happened if I had stayed 2 or 3 more years in the math dept. I only have a B.Sc. degree.) _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] symbolatom: why does it not allow to type spaces?
You could use [hcs/version], if you don't get a response after a bang, it's probably not loaded. Currently, that object only exists in Pd-extended, unless someone compiles it themself, so no response would mean not pd-extended, and therefore most likely won't have entry. You might try [tkwidgets/text], it's a much enhanced version of Ben's [entry]. It has some bugs but I want to find them and fix them now, so bug reports would be much appreciated. Also, I plan on making an object out of Tk's entry ([entry] is actually based on Tk's text). Tk's entry is a one line text widget meant for data entry. .hc On Dec 11, 2007, at 11:22 AM, Max Neupert wrote: if the situation with the symbolatom doesn't change i'd like to make a workaround where preferably [entry] is used, but if not available it will fall back to the symbol atom. is it possible to detect somehow if entry is loaded sucessfuly? max Am 11.12.2007 um 04:09 schrieb Chris McCormick: On Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 09:25:56PM +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote: before i change my policy about using externals in netpd, i would like to ask (probably miller?), if there is a chance, that symbolatom is changed accordingly in the future? When I asked about spaces in symbols on the pd-dev list Miller's reply was: 1. spaces in symbols are a parsing/formatting problem, not a data type problem. So that would indicate that he sees it as a problem that must be fixed. Be good if someone could submit a nice clean patch to fix the parsing problem and see if he accepts it. Another similar reply to the issue of symbol table saturation was 2. use arrays as strings as I proposed; which isn't currently possible in your use-case because the symbol input box itself won't let you input spaces to even get them into an array. Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is related to the telescope. -Edsger Dykstra ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] gridflow for expert people ?
Ok, Mathieu, i have begun the installation and i am at the step 3 : 1 : Install Ruby. Make sure it contains ruby.h and intern.h and related files. It's also recommended to have libruby.so. Those extra files may be in a package called ruby-dev if you are using RPM or DEB/ FINK. If you are building Ruby yourself, it's better to configure ruby with --enable-shared, else you won't have libruby.so (but you will still have libruby.a). If you need to have two Rubies at once, for example Ruby 1.8 for running Rails and Ruby 1.9 for running GridFlow, you may build Ruby 1.9 with the option --program-suffix=19 which will help distinguish the two Rubies. It's also possible to have two Rubies installed without that option, but it might be complicated. If you install into a system directory, you may have to run ldconfig after installing Ruby. OK, i have downloaded it with Fink (install binary package) 2 : Download GridFlow from the website and uncompress it, or get it from the CVS server. OK 3 : Run ./configure from the gridflow directory. Make sure it detects all the components you want to use with GridFlow. If your OS is Debian or Ubuntu you would run ruby1.9 configure instead so that it doesn't use ruby 1.8. In MacOS you would normally use FINK to install those extra components: libjpeg libjpeg-shlibs libpng-shlibs libpng3 libpng3-shlibs libmpeg libmpeg-shlibs OK, i have downloaded them with Fink (install binary package) In terminal : /gridflow-0.9.0 rybn12$ ./configure i get : This is the GridFlow 0.9.0 configurator within Ruby version 1.8.1-2003-12-25 [gcc3] GNU C++ Compiler 3 (or 4): missing (gcc compilation error) [stl] C++ Standard Template Library: - missing (gcc compilation error) [gcc64] GNU C++ in 64-bit mode: -- missing (gcc compilation error) [libruby] Ruby as a dynamic library: - missing (gcc compilation error) [librubystatic] Ruby as a static library: missing (gcc compilation error) [libtclh] Tcl headers tcl.h: --- missing (where is tcl.h ?) [libtclh] Tcl headers tcl8.5/tcl.h: missing (where is tcl8.5/ tcl.h ?) [libtclh] Tcl headers tcl8.4/tcl.h: missing (where is tcl8.4/ tcl.h ?) [libtclh] Tcl headers tcl8.3/tcl.h: missing (where is tcl8.3/ tcl.h ?) [libtcl] Tcl as a dynamic library: --- missing (gcc compilation error) [pentium] Pentium-compatible CPU: missing (powerpc-darwin instead) [mmx] MMX-compatible CPU (using NASM): --- disabled (would need pentium) [usb] USB Library: --- missing (where is usb.h ?) [x11] X11 Display Protocol: -- missing (where is X11/Xlib.h ?) [x11_shm] X11 acceleration by shared memory (XSHM plugin): --- disabled (would need x11) [sdl] Simple Directmedia Layer (experimental support): --- missing (where is SDL/SDL.h ?) [objcpp] GNU/Apple ObjectiveC++ Compiler: missing (where is objc/Object.h ?) [quartz] Apple Quartz/Cocoa Display: - disabled (would need objcpp) [aalib] Ascii Art Library: --- missing (where is aalib.h ?) [jpeg] JPEG Library: - missing (gcc compilation error) [png] PNG Library libpng12/png.h: -- missing (gcc compilation error) [png] PNG Library png.h: --- missing (gcc compilation error) [videodev] Video4linux Digitizer Driver Interface: --- missing (where is linux/videodev.h ?) [mpeg3] HeroineWarrior LibMPEG3 libmpeg3/libmpeg3.h: --- missing (where is libmpeg3/libmpeg3.h ?) [mpeg3] HeroineWarrior LibMPEG3 libmpeg3.h: missing (where is libmpeg3.h ?) [quicktimeapple] Apple's QuickTime: -- missing (gcc compilation error) [quicktimehw] Plaum's LibQuickTime (try #1) lqt/quicktime.h: --- missing (where is lqt/quicktime.h ?) [quicktimehw] Plaum's LibQuickTime (try #1) quicktime/quicktime.h: - missing (where is quicktime/quicktime.h ?) [quicktimehw] Plaum's LibQuickTime (try #2) lqt/quicktime.h: --- missing (where is lqt/quicktime.h ?) [quicktimehw] Plaum's LibQuickTime
Re: [PD] symbolatom: why does it not allow to type spaces?
On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 13:53 -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: You could use [hcs/version], if you don't get a response after a bang, it's probably not loaded. interesting approach. but this would still cause an error, when [hcs/version] cannot be found, right? it's kind of bad practice to introduce 'expectable' errors. that is something that annoys me personally the most about netpd right now. errors should really only appear, when they mean something. Also, I plan on making an object out of Tk's entry ([entry] is actually based on Tk's text). Tk's entry is a one line text widget meant for data entry. mhm sounds promising...;-) roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] re . xml-rpc client
On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 08:55 +0100, Georg Holzmann wrote: Hallo! Thanks Georg . I saw this patch but it doesn't really have any explanation associated with it that I can see. Also one would have to run another script in Python or something to make the xml-rpc calls if I understand it correctly. No, this is just an example in python... Is that correct? I was wondering if there was an external with the xml-rpc library included to avoid having to use anything along with PD. In the ideal case one would use only PD as the client and be able to contact a remote xml-rpc server directly. Yes, I think thats the idea - however, you have to replace the calls from the python example with the equivalent calls from your desired language - I'm sorry, I only used it in python so far, so I can't give an example ... So maybe the best is to simply try to reprogram this python example in your language (if you have problems just post them) - then this could be also added as an example ... Thanks again Georg, do you have a sense as to what it would take to re-write the external with the calls embedded in the external? Is this possible? It would be nice if one didn't have to use an accompanying script in Python , Perl etc to make those calls. Jim ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Inlet Proxy object example
Nice ! Is your SQLite object fully implemented ? (thus usable) a 2007/12/10, Mike McGonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello everyone, Over the weekend, I was given a huge lesson in both PD and humility... Anyway, what this is is an example of how to create an inlet proxy object to handle arbitrary list input on a cold right inlet. It is something that was extracted from the 'x_list.c' source, and generalized to be just a raw object. The example is not a useful object, but illustrates how the C source framework is designed. I posted the files to ( http://puredata.info/Members/mjmogo ). Feedback is welcome and expected... Mike -- Peace may sound simple—one beautiful word— but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. —Yehudi Menuhin (1916–1999), musician ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Alexandre Quessy http://alexandre.quessy.net http://www.puredata.info/Members/aalex ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] hardcore nerd question
It's real: I saw this on TV in Bionic Woman recently, where the Bionic Woman with her cybernetically enhanced view managed to analyze which keys on an access control keypad had the most fingerprints. It's real: kids learn this with just 12 and spray chalk on the key pad (since most people have not been enhanced with 12 YET). signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Inlet Proxy object example
On 12/11/07, Alexandre Quessy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nice ! Is your SQLite object fully implemented ? (thus usable) Well, we are still discussing how the interface in PD should work. The version that is posted currently is still just a preliminary. It does crash, but I can't figure out just why. But considering that we are still fleshing out how this will work, I figured I would start over with a fresh external. I hope to have something by the weekend. Mike ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] symbolatom: why does it not allow to type spaces?
On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: A simple fix for allowing spaces is making the label be based on a list rather than a symbol. So, how do you put a label inside of an argument list, if you can't know where it ends? And how do you put multiple spaces in a row? _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] symbolatom: why does it not allow to type spaces?
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, Roman Haefeli wrote:
ah, yes i am overseeing. thank you for mentioning them. to be added:
labels in iemguis, when saved.
I just made this movie of it:
http://artengine.ca/desiredata/gallery/iemgui_labels.mpeg
DesireData will save them correctly because it uses the same code for
sending to the GUI as for writing to a file. It also calls the same method
for updating properties as is now used by the object creator to load an
iemgui from a file.
but these are things that already would break now and it is possible to
create symbols containing spaces in pd,
You could call those objects broken and adding this feature might amount
to a bug fix. I don't know who would actually use this bug as a feature,
but you can bet someone thought it could be a cool way to split a symbol
into a list. ;)
it's just not as easy as just using a symbolbox. fact is, that people do
it anyway, so why trying to prevent them?
Why? so that the implementation doesn't have to be changed. That way
no-one has to go back on whatever they have said about pd not being for
string processing.
i didn't know that [print] would be affected. in what way is it
affected? at least visually it doesn't seem to be.
It adds backslashes which are not part of the symbol, because that's
what's accepted by any version of pd as a way to have spaces within
symbols. Any version of pd will load such symbols correctly, stripping the
backslashes (unless you have double-backslashes, of course).
i encounter that ' ' is treated in a non-comprehensibly special way,
since other characters such as ';' or ',' are escaped by symbolatom (or
by pd, i don't know)
Symbolatom incorrectly backslashes those characters when printing them.
Because it should display a symbol's content as-is, those backslashes
should have been stripped on the way out. It has the opposite problem of
[print]. [print] can print any number of atoms of different types, so it
has to be printed in a way that atom boundaries are clear and that floats
are distinguishable from symbols, which is why it shares some code with
the way files are saved, and which is why it shares the same bug.
DesireData's symbolbox works correctly for semicolons commas and spaces,
but has a bug with {\} characters. This can happen because a symbolbox's
value is not saved to file, so it has to upload it to the client another
way than using the save function, and the bug is in that special code.
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Re: [PD] re . xml-rpc client
Hallo! Thanks again Georg, do you have a sense as to what it would take to re-write the external with the calls embedded in the external? Is this possible? It would be nice if one didn't have to use an accompanying script in Python , Perl etc to make those calls. Once again: you don't have to rewrite the external and you don't have to use python! Just this example used python - you can of course make this xmlrpc calls also in perl or whatever ! LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [psql] object hand-holding
On Dec 11, 2007, at 8:29 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Jamie Bullock hat gesagt: // Jamie Bullock wrote: Actually, please don't be quiet! When this was discussed some time ago, you mentioned Python as a solution, and my feeling was that if I write a piece and it uses some database connectivity, I don't really want to have to distribute a Python runtime, relevant Python SQL module, [py] and all the respective dependencies with it. I just (at most) want to include an external, and the databse library it uses. If I write a piece, I can't reasonably expect a performer to resolve all of this themselves - it needs to just work. I also want to minimise as much as possible the number of discrete components in the system that could possibly go wrong. That's quite sensible. As soon as a DB interface is involved, one already has entered dependency hell, so minimizig further dependencies may be a valid goal. However a dependency on flext is just a dependency at compile time, so it's not really an additional dependency at runtime. A dependency on Python is kind of a dependency at runtime, as you need a possibly large Python installation. A dependency on Lua is also a runtime dependency, however as Lua is small, including it with the binaries will make the runtime dependency not matter. An immediate advantage of both Python and Lua is, that once the system is set up (easy with Lua, a bit tricky with pyext), the actual object code is just a textfile with a script. Especially as so far it's not even clear, how the SQL class in Pd should behave, this would allow rapid turnaround cycles in development. (For example I posted a working SQL object in Lua some weeks ago, and in Pyext some months ago, that took me about 20 minutes to write, including help-patch. In the case of Lua, I had never written SQL code in that language before. I wasn't so fast because I would be a genius programmer, but because the language is easier and no compilation is involved.) For a general purpose DB interface I would generally still prefer Python because threading is possible, but if ease of installation is a higher goal, Lua IMO even beats C-externals. Things are easy to compile only if your machine is setup for compiling. Pd patches and binaries shipped as part of Pd are by far the easiest to use. Getting distribution working in a non-trivial task, so unless lua and/or python are built as part of Pd-extended, I would not consider it easy. Other than that, Python, PHP, Perl, Lua, etc all have native interfaces to databases (some likely written in C), I think Pd should also have a native interface for databases. Pd is written in C, we have working C code, Pd externals written in C have a proven track record of ease of use, so it makes sense to write this interface in C as well. That said, I think we have a solid interface sketched out, I think it's time to write some code and try it out. I've started porting the mysql external from Max to Pd. Let me know if you guys want specific help with psql and sqlite. Ultimately, I think these all should be part of a 'sql' library, and then we can also add the query building objects too. .hc As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [psql] object hand-holding
On Dec 11, 2007, at 3:59 AM, Jamie Bullock wrote: On Mon, 2007-12-10 at 18:07 -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: It seems many things use the ? alone as the unnamed placeholder, but I only saw MySQL using ?name for named placeholders. It does seem like a nicer syntax rather than using a different character. Perhaps, we should follow pgsql and use $ and $name, since $ is already a marker for replacement vars in Pd. I suppose that could get confusing in something like: SELECT id, ABS(($duration - $1)/$2) AS error FROM datatable ORDER BY error LIMIT 1 I vote that we use ? as a placeholder, and only support unnamed placeholders. We can use this to convert to whatever the db-specific placeholder system is inside the external. I am ok with using ?name for placeholders, but I think we should also support the plain ? with the list input. I am fine if that happens later tho. I'd like to get something working soon, we've done a lot of talking :). .hc Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick.- David Zicarelli ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] VOSIM with a tiny bug
³An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs.² Edgard Varèse .andre wrote: is this just me, or why are Andys emails always in the future ? ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] SQL Object Model was: [psql] object hand-holding
(As the other thread seemed to diverge greatly in topic, I figured this might be a time to branch off and discuss what we are trying to implement) So, can we take a step back and figure out exactly what we are doing? It seems that even within the thread itself, we have changed the Object Model a LOT... From what I have read, this is what I now understand the model to be... [mySQL-Connection id-symbol connection info] -- a PD object representing connection [SQL-Query id-symbol sql statement] -- an SQL query object The first object, the Connection, takes a symbol that identifies itself to PD, and optionally the connection info. The second takes a symbol linking it to a Connection object (this linking can also be changed to point to another connection using a control message), and an optional SQL statement for Placeholder Inlet creation. This method will bind those inlets into the SQL statement. If there is no SQL statement, no binding is allowed using that object, and all SQL come to a cold inlet, using PD messages (variable stuff can be put into the statement via PD's $ mechanism). The connection object responds to the following open/connect - to open a file (in an embedded database) or connects to server close/disconnect - close the file or breaks the connection As the connection object can represent any database, its named dbname-connect. A MySQL database would be [MySQL-connect ...], sqlite would be [sqlite-connect ...], etc. A connection object provides a single outlet to provide status about the connection (similar to a [netsend] object). There is a single inlet used to control the connection object. The query object responds to the following buffer - to change the size of the SQL input buffer results - to change the size of the results buffer bang - submits the initial query, and outputs a result set for each bang clear - clears the SQL buffer addsemi - appends a semicolon to the SQL buffer addcomma - appends a comma to the SQL buffer adddollar - appends a dollar sign to the buffer (do we need this?) If the query is created with an embedded statement, any placeholders will generate an inlet. No cold inlet for SQL will be created. If the query does not have an embedded statement, it will provide an arbitrary inlet that accepts SQL to process. The query object has 3 outlets, the first outputs a list for each result set (on each subsequent bang, very much like a [textfile] object), the second will outlet a float representing the ROWID of the last insert statement, and the third outlet indicates the status of the query, with a bang indicating the end of the result sets, a symbol or a list is a status message from the database. * Does this sound about right? I would like to have a clear outline before I start coding anything. Thanks, Mike ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [psql] object hand-holding
On Dec 11, 2007 2:45 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That said, I think we have a solid interface sketched out, I think it's time to write some code and try it out. I've started porting the mysql external from Max to Pd. Let me know if you guys want specific help with psql and sqlite. Ultimately, I think these all should be part of a 'sql' library, and then we can also add the query building objects too. Hans, did you see my outline for the SQL stuff? While I think we discussed a lot of things, I think that we should confirm that what we discussed is what will be programmed. I have already done three different versions of this, and I really would like to start using it someday soon. Thanks, Mike ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] RIP Stockhausen
I remember hearing (from my engineering physics 2 prof) that Newton died a virgin and also was an alchemist. I also heard (from my calc prof) that Newton was deathly afraid of falling into the infinitesimal space between his foot and the inside of his shoe. And also that he liked to torture people and wasn't very pleasant. ~Kyle On Dec 11, 2007 7:15 AM, Andy Farnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I seem to recall Newton was something of an occultist. Einstein and many other scientists share beliefs in supernatural entities. Does that really effect the value of their work? -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com http://myspace.com/kyleklipowicz ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] hardcore nerd question
What's that? Like spray on invisible glue/varnish? On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:15:54 +0100 Olivier Heinry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's real: I saw this on TV in Bionic Woman recently, where the Bionic Woman with her cybernetically enhanced view managed to analyze which keys on an access control keypad had the most fingerprints. It's real: kids learn this with just 12 and spray chalk on the key pad (since most people have not been enhanced with 12 YET). -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Refactoring a PD patch
Hey, I was contemplating the idea of what it would take to write a program that reads a PD abstration and produces something that TRIES to clean up the appearance of the patch. From the discussion of segmented lines, and from seeing some other people's patches, it made me wonder if anyone else has tried to write a program that will attempt to clean up the tangled mess that some patches come to... I have some ideas about how to do this, but wanted to first check out to see if others have already attempted this sort of thing, and if they found it to be fruitful. Thanks, Mike -- Peace may sound simple—one beautiful word— but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. —Yehudi Menuhin (1916–1999), musician ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] hardcore nerd question
Le mardi 11 décembre 2007 à 23:03 +, Andy Farnell a écrit : What's that? Like spray on invisible glue/varnish? Simpler: chalk from school black board, most people wont ever notice, if they do, they just think some lazy craftsman that renovated a flat upstairs hasnt tidy the place. Most codes are 4 digit long, which a brute force attack will solve quite fast. (i dont think spray was the right word, i ment something like appliquer, to apply ?) On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:15:54 +0100 Olivier Heinry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's real: I saw this on TV in Bionic Woman recently, where the Bionic Woman with her cybernetically enhanced view managed to analyze which keys on an access control keypad had the most fingerprints. It's real: kids learn this with just 12 and spray chalk on the key pad (since most people have not been enhanced with 12 YET). signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [psql] object hand-holding
On Dec 11, 2007, at 3:45 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Dec 11, 2007, at 8:29 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Jamie Bullock hat gesagt: // Jamie Bullock wrote: Actually, please don't be quiet! When this was discussed some time ago, you mentioned Python as a solution, and my feeling was that if I write a piece and it uses some database connectivity, I don't really want to have to distribute a Python runtime, relevant Python SQL module, [py] and all the respective dependencies with it. I just (at most) want to include an external, and the databse library it uses. If I write a piece, I can't reasonably expect a performer to resolve all of this themselves - it needs to just work. I also want to minimise as much as possible the number of discrete components in the system that could possibly go wrong. That's quite sensible. As soon as a DB interface is involved, one already has entered dependency hell, so minimizig further dependencies may be a valid goal. However a dependency on flext is just a dependency at compile time, so it's not really an additional dependency at runtime. A dependency on Python is kind of a dependency at runtime, as you need a possibly large Python installation. A dependency on Lua is also a runtime dependency, however as Lua is small, including it with the binaries will make the runtime dependency not matter. An immediate advantage of both Python and Lua is, that once the system is set up (easy with Lua, a bit tricky with pyext), the actual object code is just a textfile with a script. Especially as so far it's not even clear, how the SQL class in Pd should behave, this would allow rapid turnaround cycles in development. (For example I posted a working SQL object in Lua some weeks ago, and in Pyext some months ago, that took me about 20 minutes to write, including help-patch. In the case of Lua, I had never written SQL code in that language before. I wasn't so fast because I would be a genius programmer, but because the language is easier and no compilation is involved.) For a general purpose DB interface I would generally still prefer Python because threading is possible, but if ease of installation is a higher goal, Lua IMO even beats C-externals. Things are easy to compile only if your machine is setup for compiling. Pd patches and binaries shipped as part of Pd are by far the easiest to use. Getting distribution working in a non- trivial task, so unless lua and/or python are built as part of Pd- extended, I would not consider it easy. Other than that, Python, PHP, Perl, Lua, etc all have native interfaces to databases (some likely written in C), I think Pd should also have a native interface for databases. Pd is written in C, we have working C code, Pd externals written in C have a proven track record of ease of use, so it makes sense to write this interface in C as well. I just wanted to add, I am not anti-python or lua or whatever. It's just a practical matter. Pd is written in C, therefore it's going to be much easier to manage Pd code written in C. C is a pain, that's true, but that's what we got. Perhaps someone could write another pd in Lua! :D .hc That said, I think we have a solid interface sketched out, I think it's time to write some code and try it out. I've started porting the mysql external from Max to Pd. Let me know if you guys want specific help with psql and sqlite. Ultimately, I think these all should be part of a 'sql' library, and then we can also add the query building objects too. .hc -- -- As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin Free software means you control what your computer does. Non-free software means someone else controls that, and to some extent controls you. - Richard M. Stallman ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Refactoring a PD patch
On 12/11/07, Andy Farnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's impossible to prescribe any certain way to patch, it's a bit of an art and very personal, but I have established a kind of pattern that I seem to follow and always try to tidy up patches into this form. This is mainly for DSP, synthesis and effects... Yes, I know this. My idea is not to create a tool that will force a user to lay things out in a specific way, but more a tool that will clean things up, and then the user can accept those changes and start with that patch. it would not overwrite the original patch, that would be left for the user to do. How you can parse the file and identify any of this is a damn hard problem imho. My idea stems from not worrying about the functionality of these objects, but in how they are connected. Basically, when I build my patches, I try to stack all those things that are connected directly in a line. While this doesn't always work out, I think that something like this could be programmed to help people clean up some of the mazes of patch cords. I am not claiming that this would fix any problems, just an attempt to make the flow of objects and their placements in the patch cleaner. Mike On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:34:49 -0600 Mike McGonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, I was contemplating the idea of what it would take to write a program that reads a PD abstration and produces something that TRIES to clean up the appearance of the patch. From the discussion of segmented lines, and from seeing some other people's patches, it made me wonder if anyone else has tried to write a program that will attempt to clean up the tangled mess that some patches come to... I have some ideas about how to do this, but wanted to first check out to see if others have already attempted this sort of thing, and if they found it to be fruitful. Thanks, Mike -- Peace may sound simple_one beautiful word_ but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. _Yehudi Menuhin (1916_1999), musician -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Peace may sound simple—one beautiful word— but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. —Yehudi Menuhin (1916–1999), musician ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] colour and brightness (Was: Re: [GEM-dev] Why is [hsv2rgb] implemented as an abstraction?)
Hi, Redirecting from GEM-dev as it's not about GEM development... Mathieu Bouchard wrote: if you do a polar transform on YUV, you have something easier, faster and more correct all at once. I usually just skip the polar transform: if you apply rotations directly on YUV values, you can make very believable hue shifts. Interesting, I'm in the process of experimenting a bit with different colour spaces, got in a real headache with XYZ and CIE L*a*b and so on, but YUV's simplicity may win. HSV is dubious in part because the apparent brightness at maximum so-called value is very variable and seems to peak high or low at secondaries or primaries: compare yellow (brightness 89%) and blue (brightness 11%). this really makes HSV suck sometimes. YUV does not have this problem. I tried a hybrid approach: $1 1 1 | [hsv2rgb] | [rgb2yuv] | 0.5 $2 $3 | [yuv2rgb] and that seems to eliminate the bad brightness mismatches, at the cost of some colours seeming a bit washed out (blue) or muddy (yellow). Attached image demonstrates the difference. Wondering if there's some set of perceptual brightness curves similar to the isophonic curves [1] there are for perceived loudness of different frequencies and levels led me to [2], which seems very complicated again. [1] http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2007-01/046213.html [2] http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/specrend/ Claude -- http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org inline: bashy.png___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Refactoring a PD patch
On 12/11/07, Andy Farnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps what's useful then is a better version of tidy already on the menu. Some kind of magnetic grid so that all connections are straight up-down or at 45 degrees. Yes, something more than Tidy. Even that is harder than it seems. For instance if you change a [select do re me] to [sel doh ray mee] then all the outlet positions change. Yes, true. This is just something that will hopefully arrange things so that the flow of control can be exposed. Once that is done, then the user can take the result patch and move things around a bit to their liking. I guess each time the algorithm should pass down the graph then up the graph to identify and align everything that is constrained first, so terminal nodes which have the greatest freedom of placement happen last (does that make sense?) I was actually thinking about two different ways of doing it. One that would start with the inputs (or any object that is a source of some kind) and work down. The other way would be just the reverse. I was also looking at some Graph Theory, and it might be useful to implement a depth-first or a breath-first kind of algorithm. I really don't intend this to take a messy patch, and have it produce a beautiful layout, just something that aligns the connections and the flow. It would be a very welcome addition Mike, I print a lot of Pd diagrams for teaching and publications and spend a fair amount of time tidying patches by hand. Yup, and that is the goal. Thanks. On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:45:00 -0600 Mike McGonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/11/07, Andy Farnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's impossible to prescribe any certain way to patch, it's a bit of an art and very personal, but I have established a kind of pattern that I seem to follow and always try to tidy up patches into this form. This is mainly for DSP, synthesis and effects... Yes, I know this. My idea is not to create a tool that will force a user to lay things out in a specific way, but more a tool that will clean things up, and then the user can accept those changes and start with that patch. it would not overwrite the original patch, that would be left for the user to do. How you can parse the file and identify any of this is a damn hard problem imho. My idea stems from not worrying about the functionality of these objects, but in how they are connected. Basically, when I build my patches, I try to stack all those things that are connected directly in a line. While this doesn't always work out, I think that something like this could be programmed to help people clean up some of the mazes of patch cords. I am not claiming that this would fix any problems, just an attempt to make the flow of objects and their placements in the patch cleaner. Mike On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:34:49 -0600 Mike McGonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, I was contemplating the idea of what it would take to write a program that reads a PD abstration and produces something that TRIES to clean up the appearance of the patch. From the discussion of segmented lines, and from seeing some other people's patches, it made me wonder if anyone else has tried to write a program that will attempt to clean up the tangled mess that some patches come to... I have some ideas about how to do this, but wanted to first check out to see if others have already attempted this sort of thing, and if they found it to be fruitful. Thanks, Mike -- Peace may sound simple_one beautiful word_ but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. _Yehudi Menuhin (1916_1999), musician -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Peace may sound simple_one beautiful word_ but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. _Yehudi Menuhin (1916_1999), musician -- Use the source -- Peace may sound simple—one beautiful word— but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. —Yehudi Menuhin (1916–1999), musician ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] SQL Object Model was: [psql] object hand-holding
So, I guess I will just assume that this is what we were discussing, until someone tells me different. Mike On 12/11/07, Mike McGonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (As the other thread seemed to diverge greatly in topic, I figured this might be a time to branch off and discuss what we are trying to implement) So, can we take a step back and figure out exactly what we are doing? It seems that even within the thread itself, we have changed the Object Model a LOT... From what I have read, this is what I now understand the model to be... [mySQL-Connection id-symbol connection info] -- a PD object representing connection [SQL-Query id-symbol sql statement] -- an SQL query object The first object, the Connection, takes a symbol that identifies itself to PD, and optionally the connection info. The second takes a symbol linking it to a Connection object (this linking can also be changed to point to another connection using a control message), and an optional SQL statement for Placeholder Inlet creation. This method will bind those inlets into the SQL statement. If there is no SQL statement, no binding is allowed using that object, and all SQL come to a cold inlet, using PD messages (variable stuff can be put into the statement via PD's $ mechanism). The connection object responds to the following open/connect - to open a file (in an embedded database) or connects to server close/disconnect - close the file or breaks the connection As the connection object can represent any database, its named dbname-connect. A MySQL database would be [MySQL-connect ...], sqlite would be [sqlite-connect ...], etc. A connection object provides a single outlet to provide status about the connection (similar to a [netsend] object). There is a single inlet used to control the connection object. The query object responds to the following buffer - to change the size of the SQL input buffer results - to change the size of the results buffer bang - submits the initial query, and outputs a result set for each bang clear - clears the SQL buffer addsemi - appends a semicolon to the SQL buffer addcomma - appends a comma to the SQL buffer adddollar - appends a dollar sign to the buffer (do we need this?) If the query is created with an embedded statement, any placeholders will generate an inlet. No cold inlet for SQL will be created. If the query does not have an embedded statement, it will provide an arbitrary inlet that accepts SQL to process. The query object has 3 outlets, the first outputs a list for each result set (on each subsequent bang, very much like a [textfile] object), the second will outlet a float representing the ROWID of the last insert statement, and the third outlet indicates the status of the query, with a bang indicating the end of the result sets, a symbol or a list is a status message from the database. * Does this sound about right? I would like to have a clear outline before I start coding anything. Thanks, Mike ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Peace may sound simple—one beautiful word— but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. —Yehudi Menuhin (1916–1999), musician ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Refactoring a PD patch
On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 08:28:03PM -0600, Mike McGonagle wrote: On 12/11/07, Andy Farnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be a very welcome addition Mike, I print a lot of Pd diagrams for teaching and publications and spend a fair amount of time tidying patches by hand. Yup, and that is the goal. Aparently Max/MSP, and (I think) DesireData have key strokes that can do a lot of the hard work for you with regards to aligning and distributing boxes. There is a video of this kind of action floating around somewhere that's been posted to this list a couple of times. I feel that this might be more useful than a blunt patch tidying master algorithm since it gives the user more control over the layout. I've always thought it would be cool to have a patching system that is a bit like a spreadsheet with margins between cells so that cells are arranged in a fixed and easy to read pattern and patch cords all run in the margins. This would make creating patches faster as you could use tabs and carriage returns between cells etc. Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Installing GridFlow on MacOSX
Small improvement but i get an error. If someone could help me ? (I want to create a tutorial for MacOsX users after). thx Jack ~/Desktop/Mickael/gridflow-0.9.0 rybn12$ ./configure This is the GridFlow 0.9.0 configurator within Ruby version 1.8.1-2003-12-25 [gcc3] GNU C++ Compiler 3 (or 4): found [stl] C++ Standard Template Library: - found [gcc64] GNU C++ in 64-bit mode: -- missing (gcc: error: 'off_t' was not declared in this scope) [libruby] Ruby as a dynamic library: - found [librubystatic] Ruby as a static library: disabled (using libruby instead) [libtclh] Tcl headers tcl.h: --- found [libtcl] Tcl as a dynamic library: --- found [pentium] Pentium-compatible CPU: missing (powerpc-darwin instead) [mmx] MMX-compatible CPU (using NASM): --- disabled (would need pentium) [usb] USB Library: --- missing (where is usb.h ?) [x11] X11 Display Protocol: -- found [x11_shm] X11 acceleration by shared memory (XSHM plugin): --- found [sdl] Simple Directmedia Layer (experimental support): --- missing (gcc compilation error) [objcpp] GNU/Apple ObjectiveC++ Compiler: found [quartz] Apple Quartz/Cocoa Display: - found [aalib] Ascii Art Library: --- found [jpeg] JPEG Library: - found [png] PNG Library libpng12/png.h: -- found [videodev] Video4linux Digitizer Driver Interface: --- missing (where is linux/videodev.h ?) [mpeg3] HeroineWarrior LibMPEG3 libmpeg3/libmpeg3.h: --- missing (where is libmpeg3/libmpeg3.h ?) [mpeg3] HeroineWarrior LibMPEG3 libmpeg3.h: missing (where is libmpeg3.h ?) [quicktimeapple] Apple's QuickTime: -- found [quicktimehw] Plaum's LibQuickTime (try #1) lqt/quicktime.h: --- disabled (using quicktimeapple instead) [quicktimehw] Plaum's LibQuickTime (try #1) quicktime/quicktime.h: - disabled (using quicktimeapple instead) [quicktimehw] Plaum's LibQuickTime (try #2) lqt/quicktime.h: --- disabled (using quicktimeapple instead) [quicktimehw] Plaum's LibQuickTime (try #2) quicktime/quicktime.h: - disabled (using quicktimeapple instead) [puredata] PureData (or DesireData): - found [desiredata] DesireData: - missing (gcc: error: 'gobj_subscribe' was not declared in this scope) [gem09] PureData GEM (source code) with m_holdname: -- missing (gcc: error: `CPPExtern' has not been declared) [gem08] PureData GEM (source code) without m_holdname: --- missing (gcc compilation error) [opencv] Intel OpenCV: --- missing (gcc compilation error) [fftw] FFTW (Fastest Fourier Transform in the West): - missing (gcc compilation error) generating ./config.make generating config.h See ./config.log if you want the details of the configuration tests. If you are satisfied with that configuration, you may go on, and do make. make install is not needed anymore, just move your gridflow directory to lib/pd/extra. If you get stuck, you could contact the author about it, but first make sure you read doc/install.html. ~/Desktop/Mickael/gridflow-0.9.0 rybn12$ make ruby -w base/source_filter.rb base/grid.h base/grid.h.fcs ruby -w base/source_filter.rb base/main.c base/main.c.fcs g++ -I/sw/include -I/usr/local/include -I/Users/rybn12/include -I. -xc ++ -fno-operator-names -fno-omit-frame-pointer -I/usr/X11R6/include - I/sw/lib/ruby/1.8/powerpc-darwin -I/usr/include -I../Gem/src -I../Gem/ src -falign-functions=16 -DMACOSX -Wall -Wno-unused -Wunused-variable -g -fPIC -I. -O2 -funroll-loops -c base/main.c.fcs -o base/main.o base/main.c.fcs:39:22: error: execinfo.h: No such file or directory base/main.c.fcs: In function `void blargh()': base/main.c.fcs:522: error: 'backtrace' was not declared in this scope base/main.c.fcs:523: error: 'backtrace_symbols' was not declared in this scope base/main.c.fcs: At global scope: base/main.c.fcs:297: warning: 'ciFObject' defined but not used make: *** [base/main.o] Error 1 ___
Re: [PD] [psql] object hand-holding
I cc'ed the list since I think this is valuable discussion: On Dec 10, 2007, at 7:39 PM, Mike McGonagle wrote: On 12/10/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is useful to represent the pieces in Pd space, so you can understand what's going on. That's one reason why I advocate having the core object represent the connection to the database rather than a query. Otherwise, it's starts to become more like Max/MSP's mega-objects (coll, zl, etc) that are really like mini- applications than programming. At the same time, while you seem to want to abstract the query from the database connection objects, SQL is not SQL to all databases. One thing I have noticed is that in SQLite, you would create an autoincremented ID/index field using: CREATE TABLE MINE ( id integer primary key autoincrement not null ); While in MySQL (from what I remember) you do this: CREATE TABLE MINE ( id INT auto_increment not null PRIMARY KEY(id) ); (Please not the difference in spelling autoincrement.) So, while I can understand you desire to abstract these concepts out, I wonder if it would be possible. Also, I don't think that it should be the task of the external to normalize what SQL gets entered. One of the original design goals was to NOT have to actually parse the SQL, relying on the user to know what they are doing, and just feed the SQL into the database. I can see that from this thread alone, that this is not going to be possible. Plus, if we are going to implement the idea of placeholders, that Yes, we will need to be parsing some SQL. There still can be query objects, they would just be designed to feed to the core database objects. These query objects would then be usable if we maintain the same interface. And yet, the differences between databases might actually make this difficult at best. That is why I still think there will end up being a different object for 'sqlite', postgres, mysql, etc... I agree with you. Ideally, there would be a common SQL, but there is not. We could try to make a common SQL, I think things like Perl:DBI do that (I could be wrong), but I think that would be a version 2 kind of thing. We can leave that till later, or perhaps never. I still think we can make a common query object that just handles the placeholders, and otherwise just passed the SQL statements thru. .hc Mike .hc -- -- News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is publicity. - Bill Moyers -- Peace may sound simple—one beautiful word— but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. —Yehudi Menuhin (1916–1999), musician I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] gridflow for expert people ?
On 12 Dec 2007, at 4:16 AM, Max Neupert wrote: Is there a Finder option to show dot-files? There's one on Linux. in the terminal type: defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles 1 then restart the finder and it will display all the hidden files too. another neat thing i discovered some days ago is if you naviagte in the terminal to a hidden folder and use the open command it will open the unvisible folder in the finder (try open /bin ) 'Go to folder...' (or shift-cmd-G) will also open hidden folders in Finder, then I make visible aliases to folders such as /bin or /usr. For those who insist on GUI access to lots of preferences otherwise only accessible through the terminal try TinkerTool from http://www.bresink.com/osx/0TinkerTool/download.html and/or OnyX from http://www.titanium.free.fr. For a very useful extension to Finder, a better way to get file info and to browse invisible files try XRay from http://www.brockerhoff.net/xray simon ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] symbolatom: why does it not allow to type spaces?
It's nice to add those features, but by adding them to the pd-vanilla
objects, that means patches written in desiredata are not compatible
with pd-vanilla.
It seems a better solution would be to add new desiredata objects,
then keep the iemguis compatible.
.hc
On Dec 11, 2007, at 3:32 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, Roman Haefeli wrote:
ah, yes i am overseeing. thank you for mentioning them. to be added:
labels in iemguis, when saved.
I just made this movie of it:
http://artengine.ca/desiredata/gallery/iemgui_labels.mpeg
DesireData will save them correctly because it uses the same code
for sending to the GUI as for writing to a file. It also calls the
same method for updating properties as is now used by the object
creator to load an iemgui from a file.
but these are things that already would break now and it is
possible to create symbols containing spaces in pd,
You could call those objects broken and adding this feature might
amount to a bug fix. I don't know who would actually use this bug
as a feature, but you can bet someone thought it could be a cool
way to split a symbol into a list. ;)
it's just not as easy as just using a symbolbox. fact is, that
people do it anyway, so why trying to prevent them?
Why? so that the implementation doesn't have to be changed. That
way no-one has to go back on whatever they have said about pd not
being for string processing.
i didn't know that [print] would be affected. in what way is it
affected? at least visually it doesn't seem to be.
It adds backslashes which are not part of the symbol, because
that's what's accepted by any version of pd as a way to have spaces
within symbols. Any version of pd will load such symbols correctly,
stripping the backslashes (unless you have double-backslashes, of
course).
i encounter that ' ' is treated in a non-comprehensibly special way,
since other characters such as ';' or ',' are escaped by
symbolatom (or
by pd, i don't know)
Symbolatom incorrectly backslashes those characters when printing
them. Because it should display a symbol's content as-is, those
backslashes should have been stripped on the way out. It has the
opposite problem of [print]. [print] can print any number of atoms
of different types, so it has to be printed in a way that atom
boundaries are clear and that floats are distinguishable from
symbols, which is why it shares some code with the way files are
saved, and which is why it shares the same bug.
DesireData's symbolbox works correctly for semicolons commas and
spaces, but has a bug with {\} characters. This can happen because
a symbolbox's value is not saved to file, so it has to upload it to
the client another way than using the save function, and the bug is
in that special code.
_ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ...
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Re: [PD] symbolatom: why does it not allow to type spaces?
On Dec 11, 2007, at 3:33 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: A simple fix for allowing spaces is making the label be based on a list rather than a symbol. So, how do you put a label inside of an argument list, if you can't know where it ends? And how do you put multiple spaces in a row? Simple answer: you don't put labels as arguments. Full answer: you use the tcl flags to save the arguments. This works fine in binbufs: -text this is my label -font Lucida Sans 10 bold -fg black -bg green Check tkwidgets/text.c for more info. .hc I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have three meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds, and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits. - Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [psql] object hand-holding
On Dec 11, 2007, at 5:27 PM, Mike McGonagle wrote: On Dec 11, 2007 2:45 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That said, I think we have a solid interface sketched out, I think it's time to write some code and try it out. I've started porting the mysql external from Max to Pd. Let me know if you guys want specific help with psql and sqlite. Ultimately, I think these all should be part of a 'sql' library, and then we can also add the query building objects too. Hans, did you see my outline for the SQL stuff? While I think we discussed a lot of things, I think that we should confirm that what we discussed is what will be programmed. I have already done three different versions of this, and I really would like to start using it someday soon. If you mean the SQL Object Model, I am looking now. If you mean something else, please point me to it. .hc You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
