Re: [PD] better tabread4~
Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes that'right, hmm I guess I knew that but said it in a woolly way Amend that to [tabread~] - play back at exactly the original rate [tabread4~] - play back at close to the orginal rate [tabread4c~] - play back with wider transposition Perhaps these could have more descriptive names, especially if there was a tabread, etc. library. Some quick ideas: [tabread_tweak~] [tabread_transpose~] .hc I really hate to be a fart on this one, but I'm sorry to say I don't like this scheme at all. This implies that the tabread classes are only used for sampling. I understand that probably 95% of their use is for sampling, and that for a majority of users the more descriptive names might be helpful in that context, but I really feel bad about it for a number of reasons aside from the real estate arguments in other posts: 1) [tabread4~] has several other important applications (e.g. waveshaping), where the tweak and transpose appendages would have little relevance. 2) I tend to greatly prefer object names which say what the object does, not what it is for, especially with rather low-level objects. IMO, the latter labeling tends to constrain one's thinking about the use of an object in a way that the former does not. 3) In pedagogical situations I dislike black box objects which hide too much of the implementation. This probably wouldn't be the case with these objects, but it feels like it's leaning too far in that direction. One could argue that those who want to really know what's going on would have to page through the documentation just as much as someone who just wants things to work in the easiest way. I very much understand the need to get things done, however, and I am sensitive to the balance between having a substantial set of ready-to-use tools that you don't have to build, and the set of tools you would want to restrict yourself to if you were trying to learn the fundamentals of DSP and program flow. I think that vanilla Pd's leanness and explicitness make it an ideal teaching tool, but extended might better make Pd a production tool... however I don't think you would introduce descriptive names like this into vanilla, and especially into something as low-level as a table reader. All of that said, I think something like the [sampler~] object proposed in another post would be much in keeping with the user-friendly filter objects like [bp~] (as opposed to [rpole~] and [rzero~] which are the real building block kinds of filter classes). An object name like [sampler~] would indeed restrict its relevance to sampling, and the automatic interpolation schemes would support this restriction... such a thing might be useful in readsf~ contexts as well. Thanks, Matt ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] getting started with webcam/pdp
Hi I run linux (ubuntu 7.10) and pd-extended installed from Pd-0.39.3-extended-debian-testing-i386.deb I have some experience with pd, but none with video. I hooked up my phillips webcam and dmesg tels me it's connected to /dev/video0. Skype shows video from this device just fine. However I can't get it going in pd. I tried running the examples/pdp/input_output.pd patch, and I briefly see a black window, then pd dies with this in the terminal: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ pd tk scaling is 1.18830409357 init : Avifile RELEASE-0.7.47-070916-12:47-4.1.3 init : Available CPU flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr mce cx8 sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 tm pbe up bts est tm2 init : 1600.00 MHz Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1600MHz detected X Error of failed request: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes) Major opcode of failed request: 143 (GLX) Minor opcode of failed request: 5 (X_GLXMakeCurrent) Serial number of failed request: 32 Current serial number in output stream: 32 socket receive error: Connection reset by peer (104) Am I on the right track? I want to grab some video from the cam, and based on something in the image send out OSC. I don't know what something is yet, need to play with it, but I have the idea of the audience influence the music (which is running in ChucK). Am I still on the right track? -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
Hallo, Matt Barber hat gesagt: // Matt Barber wrote: All of that said, I think something like the [sampler~] object proposed in another post would be much in keeping with the user-friendly filter objects like [bp~] (as opposed to [rpole~] and [rzero~] which are the real building block kinds of filter classes). An object name like [sampler~] would indeed restrict its relevance to sampling, and the automatic interpolation schemes would support this restriction... such a thing might be useful in readsf~ contexts as well. Though I would rather avoid the terms sampler or sampling, as sample already has so many different meanings in the audio world, it almost lost all usefulness. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] read a pixel value
Ricardo Dueñas Parada wrote: Hi list, I need to use a bmp file as a score, and I need to read a pixel value from a bmp file. I've been looking for an object that can do that, but I haven't found it yet, do you know a way to do that?, maybe with gem? [pix_data] fgamsdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GEM pix_buffer question
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: My guess is because pix_buffer stores uncompressed frames, which are much bigger. But I could be wrong. you could store the pixes in YUV-format, which will double the amount of images you can store in a given memory (the default is RGBA) (either send the [colorspace YUV( to the [pix_film] or use [pix_yuv] just before the [pix_buffer_write]) if you think that the bottleneck is the harddisk access, you could also try to read the film from a RAM-disk (if such a thing exists on w32) fgmasdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] getting started with webcam/pdp
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Atte André Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I run linux (ubuntu 7.10) and pd-extended installed from Pd-0.39.3-extended-debian-testing-i386.deb I have some experience with pd, but none with video. I hooked up my phillips webcam and dmesg tels me it's connected to /dev/video0. Skype shows video from this device just fine. However I can't get it going in pd. I tried running the examples/pdp/input_output.pd patch, and I briefly see a black window, Probally you have a webcam that use video4linux2 protocol, so you have to use pdp_v4l2. You can find it in http://artefacte.org/pd/ or try one of the last nigthly auto-build bye Husk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: tabread4~ isn't such a great name that it should be used for the new one. hmm, from my elitist point of view, [tabread4~] tells me something about how this object works (its reading a table using 4 point interpolation) rather than [tabread_tweak~] which tells me exactly nothing apart from being a modified version of [tabread~] which might do what i want or not. certainly the exact meaning of the elements tab read 4 and ~ is something you have to get used to or learn by heart. but at least they make sense, once you know them. this might be the reason why i prefer [lop~] over [cool_filter~] and Pd over reactor. fgmasdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Installing Extended on Ubuntu/Debian [WAS: Re: [PD-announce] Proof Me! PD FLOSS Manual]
Derek Holzer wrote: Hi IOhannes, just getting back around to these edits.. IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Installing: i find it highly confusing that the Installing Pure Data on Debian (and ubuntu) does not mention in a single word that you could just run aptitude install puredata Does this install PD Extended? no it installs vanilla Pd. The manual is aimed at Extended rather this is news to me, as i nowhere found a reference to that. the InstallingOSX sections explicitely tells you how to install pd-vanilla, and only later goes for Pd-extended. it doesn't tell the user anywhere that they are expected to use Pd-extended if they want to follow the tutorials. all other installation-instructions seem to imply Pd-extended, but nowhere say so. instead they refer to millers homepage (where you would get pd-vanilla), and refer to version-used-for-this-installation 0.39-3 which might have substantial differences between Pd and PdX. at the very least i would suggest: - use 0.39-3-extended as the version string - clarify for OSX users that they should actually install Pd-extended. (on my wishlist would be to make the os-x install instructions to be of the same quality as for the other OSs) oh...i just saw that someone already (derek?) already submitted an standardized version of InstallingOSX, but it is not visible yet to the public. probably it is still pending? fmgas IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Installing Extended on Ubuntu/Debian [WAS: Re: [PD-announce] Proof Me! PD FLOSS Manual]
Hey IOhannes, last night I already changed the InstallingOSX page to be like the others, however I'm having trouble getting it published. In the next day or so it should get sorted out, and then it will be very clear that the focus is Pd-Extended for all platforms. best! D. IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Derek Holzer wrote: Hi IOhannes, just getting back around to these edits.. IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Installing: i find it highly confusing that the Installing Pure Data on Debian (and ubuntu) does not mention in a single word that you could just run aptitude install puredata Does this install PD Extended? no it installs vanilla Pd. The manual is aimed at Extended rather this is news to me, as i nowhere found a reference to that. the InstallingOSX sections explicitely tells you how to install pd-vanilla, and only later goes for Pd-extended. it doesn't tell the user anywhere that they are expected to use Pd-extended if they want to follow the tutorials. all other installation-instructions seem to imply Pd-extended, but nowhere say so. instead they refer to millers homepage (where you would get pd-vanilla), and refer to version-used-for-this-installation 0.39-3 which might have substantial differences between Pd and PdX. at the very least i would suggest: - use 0.39-3-extended as the version string - clarify for OSX users that they should actually install Pd-extended. (on my wishlist would be to make the os-x install instructions to be of the same quality as for the other OSs) oh...i just saw that someone already (derek?) already submitted an standardized version of InstallingOSX, but it is not visible yet to the public. probably it is still pending? fmgas IOhannes -- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ---Oblique Strategy # 136: Remove specifics and convert to ambiguities ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PD with Eucon Ethernet Protocol?
Hey, I'm looking to buy the euphonix controllers. (http://www.euphonix.com/artist/index.php) No midi implementation on it by the looks of things (its a DAW controller really)- it seems to communicate through the ethernet port. Anyone know if I could access any data from it in PD? All the best- Kilshaw~ Royal Welsh College of Music Drama Castle Grounds Cathays Park Cardiff CF10 3ER Royal Welsh College of Music Drama Ltd A subsidiary of the University of Glamorgan Company registration 6013744, registered in England and Wales This e-mail is intended for the above named only, and may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance upon the e-mail is prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED], quoting your name and the name of the sender, then delete the e-mail from your system. Please note that neither RWCMD nor the sender accepts any liability for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan any attachments included with this e-mail. Coleg Brenhinol Cerdd a Drama Cymru Maes y Castell Parc Cathays Caerdydd CF10 3ER Coleg Brenhinol Cerdd a Drama Cymru Cyf Is-gwmni Prifysgol Morgannwg Cofrestriad cwmni 6013744, a gofrestrwyd yn Lloegr a Chymru Dim ond at ddefnydd yr unigolyn a enwir uchod y bwriedir yr e-bost hwn, a gall gynnwys gwybodaeth gyfrinachol. Os nad chi yw'r derbynnydd a fwriadwyd, gwaherddir i chi ledaenu, copio neu ddosbarthu'r e-bost, a gall hynny fod yn anghyfreithlon. Os nad chi yw'r derbynnydd a fwriadwyd, cysylltwch a [EMAIL PROTECTED] gan nodi eich enw ac enw'r anfonydd, ac yna dileu'r neges o'ch cyfrifiadur. Dylech nodi nad yw CBCDC na'r anfonydd yn derbyn unrhyw gyfrifoldeb am unrhyw firysau, ac eich cyfrifoldeb chi yw sganio unrhyw atodiadau sydd ynghlwm wrth yr e-bost hwn. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd-Extended user prefs locations
http://puredata.info/docs/faq/pdsettings .hc On Jun 24, 2008, at 1:05 AM, Derek Holzer wrote: Hi HC or somebody else that knows this offhand, I know this has been a big subject of debate on the list this month, so I'll keep this short and simple: Where are the current user preferences files on each platform for Pd-Extended? I have only OS X in front of me now, so I see ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist works for that. What about Linux and Windows? Will these stay current or are they likely to change sometime soon? I'm asking so I know what to write for the Pd FLOSS Manual. best, D. -- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/ macumbista ---Oblique Strategy # 154: The most easily forgotten thing is the most important ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
On Jun 24, 2008, at 11:36 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: tabread4~ isn't such a great name that it should be used for the new one. hmm, from my elitist point of view, [tabread4~] tells me something about how this object works (its reading a table using 4 point interpolation) rather than [tabread_tweak~] which tells me exactly nothing apart from being a modified version of [tabread~] which might do what i want or not. certainly the exact meaning of the elements tab read 4 and ~ is something you have to get used to or learn by heart. but at least they make sense, once you know them. this might be the reason why i prefer [lop~] over [cool_filter~] and Pd over reactor. fgmasdr IOhannes 4 stands for 4-point interpolation, that is true. But there are many algorithms for 4-point interpolation, as this thread as laid bare. tabread4~ could also describe something that reads 4 values and averages them, it could also be the 4th version of tabread~. Those are all existing naming conventions in Pd. Feel free to critique my suggestions, but it isn't really productive until there are suggestions for how to do it differently, rather than merely saying my suggestion is bad. How about putting the algorithm name in there somehow? .hc [T]he greatest purveyor of violence in the world today [is] my own government. - Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
On Jun 24, 2008, at 8:22 AM, Matt Barber wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes that'right, hmm I guess I knew that but said it in a woolly way Amend that to [tabread~] - play back at exactly the original rate [tabread4~] - play back at close to the orginal rate [tabread4c~] - play back with wider transposition Perhaps these could have more descriptive names, especially if there was a tabread, etc. library. Some quick ideas: [tabread_tweak~] [tabread_transpose~] .hc I really hate to be a fart on this one, but I'm sorry to say I don't like this scheme at all. This implies that the tabread classes are only used for sampling. I understand that probably 95% of their use is for sampling, and that for a majority of users the more descriptive names might be helpful in that context, but I really feel bad about it for a number of reasons aside from the real estate arguments in other posts: 1) [tabread4~] has several other important applications (e.g. waveshaping), where the tweak and transpose appendages would have little relevance. 2) I tend to greatly prefer object names which say what the object does, not what it is for, especially with rather low-level objects. IMO, the latter labeling tends to constrain one's thinking about the use of an object in a way that the former does not. Yes, definitely, that's why I don't think 4c really says much about what it does or what it is for. .hc 3) In pedagogical situations I dislike black box objects which hide too much of the implementation. This probably wouldn't be the case with these objects, but it feels like it's leaning too far in that direction. One could argue that those who want to really know what's going on would have to page through the documentation just as much as someone who just wants things to work in the easiest way. I very much understand the need to get things done, however, and I am sensitive to the balance between having a substantial set of ready-to-use tools that you don't have to build, and the set of tools you would want to restrict yourself to if you were trying to learn the fundamentals of DSP and program flow. I think that vanilla Pd's leanness and explicitness make it an ideal teaching tool, but extended might better make Pd a production tool... however I don't think you would introduce descriptive names like this into vanilla, and especially into something as low-level as a table reader. All of that said, I think something like the [sampler~] object proposed in another post would be much in keeping with the user-friendly filter objects like [bp~] (as opposed to [rpole~] and [rzero~] which are the real building block kinds of filter classes). An object name like [sampler~] would indeed restrict its relevance to sampling, and the automatic interpolation schemes would support this restriction... such a thing might be useful in readsf~ contexts as well. Thanks, Matt kill your television ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: 4 stands for 4-point interpolation, that is true. But there are many algorithms for 4-point interpolation, as this thread as laid bare. tabread4~ could also describe something that reads 4 values and averages them, it could also be the 4th version of tabread~. Those are all existing naming conventions in Pd. true that 4 doesn't say much about the interpolation alogrithm and that is definitely a weakness in the current naming scheme. it was not my intention to say that the current scheme is the non-plus-ultra in sophistication. it, however, was my intention to say that [tabread_tweak~] is one of the worst possible names i could think of. i do not say that this is is constructive criticism, rather i meant it as a preventive criticism. gmsdfr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] getting started with webcam/pdp
Husk 00 wrote: Probally you have a webcam that use video4linux2 protocol, so you have to use pdp_v4l2. Ok. My device indeed seems to be a version 2 camera, since this shows up in dmesg after inserting the camera: [ 4305.015145] Linux video capture interface: v2.00 [ 4305.080752] pwc: Philips webcam module version 10.0.13 loaded. Sorry for asking, but before I break my whole pd install: I installed pd-extended, which means I cannot uninstall pdp by itself, right? Is it possible to simply compile (and maybe not install) the patched pdp and somehow set pd up to use this instead, while having the original pdp still there, and if so how? -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] array save contents problem
Hi, what am i doing wrong? i put a table in a patch. went to the properties dialog of the inner array and activated save contents then clicked ok. changed the data in the array. saved the whole patch. closed it. opened it again - but there is no data in the array :( even the save contents is gone ??? cheers g. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd-Extended user prefs locations
Rockin'! Thx! d. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: http://puredata.info/docs/faq/pdsettings .hc On Jun 24, 2008, at 1:05 AM, Derek Holzer wrote: Hi HC or somebody else that knows this offhand, I know this has been a big subject of debate on the list this month, so I'll keep this short and simple: Where are the current user preferences files on each platform for Pd-Extended? I have only OS X in front of me now, so I see ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist works for that. What about Linux and Windows? Will these stay current or are they likely to change sometime soon? I'm asking so I know what to write for the Pd FLOSS Manual. best, D. -- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ---Oblique Strategy # 154: The most easily forgotten thing is the most important ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin -- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ---Oblique Strategy # 87: Imagine the music as a moving chain or caterpillar ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] array save contents problem
so, you created it as [table] ? as far as i can tell, it's a bug that you even get a 'save contents' dialogue if you do that, because the contents will not be saved. go into the menu at the top and use put-array you can then disable the array's GOP capability if you want to save cpu, but the save function will still work. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] array save contents problem
thanks, i thought a table is something like a subpatch with an array inside. g. hard off schrieb: so, you created it as [table] ? as far as i can tell, it's a bug that you even get a 'save contents' dialogue if you do that, because the contents will not be saved. go into the menu at the top and use put-array you can then disable the array's GOP capability if you want to save cpu, but the save function will still work. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: true that 4 doesn't say much about the interpolation alogrithm and that is definitely a weakness in the current naming scheme. Well, I'd have expected 4 to be a cubic spline algorithm, because it uses a sliding window of 4 samples, polynomial interpolation is pretty much the default, 4-point polynomial leads to cubic curves (using Lagrange or not), and beyond having a continuous curve (C0) and continuous derivative (C1), it's also nice to have a continuous second-derivative (C2). All this leading to basically one specific formula, which [tabread4] doesn't use, but which I assumed [tabread4] was using, until Roman told me that Cyrille had looked at it closely and found it to be non-C1. (I made a mistake while talking to Roman. I said it's only C1, but the thing is that first derivatives are the last derivatives to be chosen according to samples. Second derivatives are chosen so that they fall to zero at every junction of pieces, and never anything else than zero. It's like that because there are 4 degrees of freedom, which are used up for start end points of f f'... that's 4, so f''(0) and f''(1) can't be set by variables... but it can be set by constants.) All this to say that I don't think that the current interpolator deserved to be called THE 4, because there's a more generally useful interpolator that uses up the same power and thus would've been a much better choice for a default. The point of a default value or default algorithm is so that you need to specify a non-default as seldom as possible, and an unqualified 4 looks like a default to me (the name of the algorithm is implied) it, however, was my intention to say that [tabread_tweak~] is one of the worst possible names i could think of. i do not say that this is is constructive criticism, rather i meant it as a preventive criticism. It's like the names of the codecs in Quicktime-related GUIs... they all come out with different names than what the rest of the world is calling them... I don't have any names off the top of my head anymore, but it sure is/was confusing. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] array save contents problem
Hallo, Georg Werner hat gesagt: // Georg Werner wrote: thanks, i thought a table is something like a subpatch with an array inside. Somehow, but then not: It's also just an object box (or box object), and as practically all other object boxes in Pd, the arguments to it specify its behaviour copmpletely. The only arguments [table] accepts are the array name and the size, so that's all that's actually saved. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Matt Barber wrote: [tabread_tweak~] [tabread_transpose~] I really hate to be a fart on this one You should love it, if you intend it for the good of pd. 2) I tend to greatly prefer object names which say what the object does, not what it is for, This is one of the major points of the DIY movement. I'm sure that there are men who buy themselves «bikini line trimmers» in pink boxes labelled «designed exclusively for women» just so that they can have more precision tailoring themselves a chin pinch, and this doesn't have anything to do with being gay or effeminate, though the peer pressure wouldn't miss making that kind of allusion or another of the same level. Some other people would use the same bikini line trimmer to perform intricate pruning on bonsaï trees. (doesn't anyone feel embarrassed that someone talks about a bikini line trimmer on pd-list? does it make me pervert, gay, or just oblivious to social customs? doesn't that exactly prove our point? consider the object for what it can do.) especially with rather low-level objects. IMO, the latter labeling tends to constrain one's thinking about the use of an object in a way that the former does not. I'd say that beyond what it does and what it's for, there is also what it's marketed as or what you will be told that it's for, which might be the same as what it's for, but modified and specialised to make it more obviously relevant to people's life. A major schism in the pd world is how GEM/PDP feel somewhat more what it's for than pd itself, whereas GF and pd are more what it does. This is about both the naming and how an object's multipurposeness is only multiple ways of thinking about what is the single thing that the object does, rather than have multipurposeness correspond to multiple behaviours defined separately, each matching a single what it's for. This is a gross generalisation. There are definitely GEM/PDP classes that were designed in a what it does way, and GF classes that are definitely what it's for in style, but when asking yourself the question of why something is different in GF than in [pix_...], that kind of difference is often the most important difference. All of that said, I think something like the [sampler~] object proposed in another post would be much in keeping with the user-friendly filter objects like [bp~] (as opposed to [rpole~] and [rzero~] which are the real building block kinds of filter classes). I consider [lop~] to be on essentially the same level as [rpole~], really. [rpole~] is simply a different kind of building block that appeals more to people who work in terms of so-called «transfer functions». _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: 4 stands for 4-point interpolation, that is true. But there are many algorithms for 4-point interpolation, as this thread as laid bare. tabread4~ could also describe something that reads 4 values and averages them, it could also be the 4th version of tabread~. Those are all existing naming conventions in Pd. I'm still fond of using only a single [tabread4~] object and being able to specify the type of 4-point interpolation to use with a [interpolate cubic( message or so. Additionally with a -interpolate cubic argument, maybe. Less strain on the global namespace and backwards compatible. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] extended and load file | gem pix_record and libquicktime
Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : By the way, this should be fixed to make more sense in the latest builds: - default saveas folder is PWD on GNU/Linux and Windows - default saveas folder is Home folder (~/) on Mac OSX - new patches default to the folder last saved in .hc great, thanks a lot Hans! btw it gave me the occasion to rebuild pd and some extensions from source on hardy... Actually i am having troubles with Gem, pix_record and libquicktime after some investigations i noticed that libquicktime1 provokes a segfault of pix_record libquicktime1 comes from archive.ubuntu.com hardy/universe something else which is rather strange: i use pix_record to store as a jpeg mov file 800x600 pictures but once written the movie file actually display 800x608 frames (and a beautiful 8 pixels wide green stuff). I can trim them later on with mencoder so not a big issue, but i wish i could understand why this is happening. best, Vincent On Jun 10, 2008, at 7:02 PM, Vincent Rioux wrote: Hello Hans and list, using Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc1-ubuntu-hardy-i386.deb, if i launch a patch (from the command line) in a directory say /data/dir1 where belong my_patch1.pd and my_patch2.pd : cd /data/dir1 pd my_patch1.pd if i /save as/ my_patch1.pd , pd automatically starts browsing from /data/dir1 but as for the creation of a new patch or the opening of a previous patch, pd will start browsing from the home repertory. i know that there have been a lengthy discussion on this subject but still, i am a bit puzzled by this choice. is there a way to set with the command line, the start directory (open/save,saveas) to the current directory ? best regards, vincent Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. -David Zicarelli ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] getting started with webcam/pdp
On Jun 24, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Atte André Jensen wrote: Husk 00 wrote: Probally you have a webcam that use video4linux2 protocol, so you have to use pdp_v4l2. Ok. My device indeed seems to be a version 2 camera, since this shows up in dmesg after inserting the camera: [ 4305.015145] Linux video capture interface: v2.00 [ 4305.080752] pwc: Philips webcam module version 10.0.13 loaded. Sorry for asking, but before I break my whole pd install: I installed pd-extended, which means I cannot uninstall pdp by itself, right? Is it possible to simply compile (and maybe not install) the patched pdp and somehow set pd up to use this instead, while having the original pdp still there, and if so how? You could pull out the pidip.pd_linux and use it with a different version of Pd-extended. It would also be possible for Yves to distribute the new objects on their own, and single files per objectclass. I could help with that... .hc -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated -John Donne ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
On 24/06/2008, at 12.17, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Feel free to critique my suggestions, but it isn't really productive until there are suggestions for how to do it differently, rather than merely saying my suggestion is bad. Depends on what it is to be different from. If it is to be different from the current state then it excludes the possibility to argue for status quo. Best wishes for a happy day. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] extended and load file | gem pix_record and libquicktime
Sounds like it is worth making a bug report to the gem tracker. .hc On Jun 24, 2008, at 4:52 PM, Vincent Rioux wrote: great, thanks a lot Hans! btw it gave me the occasion to rebuild pd and some extensions from source on hardy... Actually i am having troubles with Gem, pix_record and libquicktime after some investigations i noticed that libquicktime1 provokes a segfault of pix_record libquicktime1 comes from archive.ubuntu.com hardy/universe something else which is rather strange: i use pix_record to store as a jpeg mov file 800x600 pictures but once written the movie file actually display 800x608 frames (and a beautiful 8 pixels wide green stuff). I can trim them later on with mencoder so not a big issue, but i wish i could understand why this is happening. best, Vincent Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : By the way, this should be fixed to make more sense in the latest builds: - default saveas folder is PWD on GNU/Linux and Windows - default saveas folder is Home folder (~/) on Mac OSX - new patches default to the folder last saved in .hc On Jun 10, 2008, at 7:02 PM, Vincent Rioux wrote: Hello Hans and list, using Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc1-ubuntu-hardy-i386.deb, if i launch a patch (from the command line) in a directory say / data/dir1 where belong my_patch1.pd and my_patch2.pd : cd /data/dir1 pd my_patch1.pd if i save as my_patch1.pd , pd automatically starts browsing from /data/dir1 but as for the creation of a new patch or the opening of a previous patch, pd will start browsing from the home repertory. i know that there have been a lengthy discussion on this subject but still, i am a bit puzzled by this choice. is there a way to set with the command line, the start directory (open/save,saveas) to the current directory ? best regards, vincent - --- Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick.- David Zicarelli [T]he greatest purveyor of violence in the world today [is] my own government. - Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] read a pixel value
Ricardo Dueñas Parada wrote: Hi list, I need to use a bmp file as a score, and I need to read a pixel value from a bmp file. I've been looking for an object that can do that, but I haven't found it yet, do you know a way to do that?, maybe with gem? gridflow/examples/photo_pianoroll.pd _Ricardo ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] read a pixel value
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Claude Heiland-Allen wrote: I've been looking for an object that can do that, but I haven't found it yet, do you know a way to do that?, maybe with gem? gridflow/examples/photo_pianoroll.pd and generally speaking, [#store] is the equivalent of [pix_data]. You send to it the coords of the pixel you want, as a pair of numbers, or of the pixel component you want, using a triplet of numbers, or of the image row you want, as a list of a single number. Or you can do any of these repeatedly with different position, by packaging several coordinates in a bigger message, as a package deal for getting several pixels at once. You can even make [#store] build a new picture for you by picking pixels like that... [#remap_image] is some kind of meta-abstraction based on that idea and on [#store]. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Pd FLOSS Manual: ConfiguringPD
Dear list, I've just updated the chapter on configuring Pd for the Pd FLOSS Manual. If you have a second, please take a look and see if everything is clear (and correct!). Also, I'd like to ask a Windows user to upload a screenshot (max width=600 pixels) of using REGEDIT.EXE to edit the pdsettings as described in the chapter. It's very easy to make a login for yourself on the FLOSS Manuals page, and I will review and publish the changes as soon as I see them! http://flossmanuals.net/PureData/ConfiguringPD Thanks! Derek -- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ---Oblique Strategy # 58: Do we need holes? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [PD-announce] Pduino 0.4 beta0 released
http://at.or.at/hans/pd/objects.html You can read all about the protocol design here: http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Interfacing/Firmata Here are some key changes: - updated to use Firmata 2.0 protocol - Firmata is now an Arduino library - a number of included firmwares to support things like Servos - switched serial speed to 115200 .hc I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler ___ Pd-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
I disagree entirely with the trend of this discussion towards naming or methods to choose an interpolation method. We need not get ahead of ourselves, when we don't even know if it's a better tabread (like the name of this discussion). Let's make sure this thing is solid and finds good usage before expanding the tabread4~ code with extra methods. It's nice to have descriptive names for the different interpolation schemes, but there is a big difference for naming them according to what they do or how they're used, as Matju said. I see no problem with shortening the names, because it's not practical to name these things concisely, e.g. tabread4_continuous_first_derivative~ or tabread4_anti_aliasing~ So, what's wrong with tabread4c~ or tabread4a~? plenty of alternatives, but really, this is short and memorable, while keeping with the notion that these are small differences from the original tabread4~ I think it's best to consider making a library of tabread4~ alternatives, and later consider moving the different interpolation schemes to tabread4~ methods, if it's worth-while. Chuck On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 4:12 PM, bsoisoi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree, being able to specify interpolation via an inlet message would be great (from my users perspective). Plus, deciding you want better interpolation (or none at all) in any given abstraction would not require the touching of code, which is a big + in my opinion. Sometimes I may want quality, sometimes not, and other times I don't know yet or might want to change it on the fly. That's what always bugged me about Reaktor's table object, you have to right-click on the table in the setup and enable interpolation manually, which to me is the equivalent and equally annoying to specifying a different object in Pd. If you have many of these in your app hunting is not very fun. Cheers m8s, ~brandon On Jun 24, 2008, at 10:25 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: 4 stands for 4-point interpolation, that is true. But there are many algorithms for 4-point interpolation, as this thread as laid bare. tabread4~ could also describe something that reads 4 values and averages them, it could also be the 4th version of tabread~. Those are all existing naming conventions in Pd. I'm still fond of using only a single [tabread4~] object and being able to specify the type of 4-point interpolation to use with a [interpolate cubic( message or so. Additionally with a -interpolate cubic argument, maybe. Less strain on the global namespace and backwards compatible. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
bsoisoi wrote: I agree, being able to specify interpolation via an inlet message would be great (from my users perspective). hmm, i am not totally convinced (but actually don't care) as this leads to bloated objects which can just do everything and you specify what they should do via parameters. why do we have objects then? That's what always bugged me about Reaktor's table object, you have to right-click on the table in the setup and enable interpolation manually, which to me is the equivalent and equally annoying to specifying a different object in Pd. If you have many of these in your app hunting is not very fun. anyhow, now for something constructive: you can always create an abstraction [tabread_tweaked~] that is like [inlet~] | [tabread~ $1] | [outlet~] and use this abstraction. if you later decide that you do want interpolation just make the abstraction to be like [inlet~] | [tabread4~ $1] | [outlet~] et voila. you could argue that then you would have to think of the variability beforehand; bit you would have to do this as well if you are using messages (unless you are up to hunting all the [tabread~] in your patch to add the special message) fgmasdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
Excellent point, don't listen to me! :) From your example, I'm assuming you're hinting at including the ability in this abstraction to switch interpolation schemes by enabling/disabling sub-patched tabread~, tabread4~, and tabread4c~ objects via inlet messages or creation arguments. In the end, I would probably only use a tabread4c~ type object in special circumstances given tabread4~ is good enough. So whatever you decide to do I'm sure it's going to be legit (as Pd rocks). Cheers, ~Brandon On Jun 24, 2008, at 6:06 PM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: hmm, i am not totally convinced (but actually don't care) as this leads to bloated objects which can just do everything and you specify what they should do via parameters. why do we have objects then? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: hmm, i am not totally convinced (but actually don't care) as this leads to bloated objects which can just do everything and you specify what they should do via parameters. why do we have objects then? Objects and classes also have other benefits apart from making people believe that they should act a special way just because they are in presence of objects... if that's a benefit... I don't know of any docs that explain what is good and bad taste in designing pd object class interfaces. This is a topic that is always outside the scope of whichever pd workshop anyone ever takes. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Charles Henry wrote: I see no problem with shortening the names, because it's not practical to name these things concisely, e.g. tabread4_continuous_first_derivative~ or tabread4_anti_aliasing~ continuous first derivative is listed as continuously differentiable in the list of meanings of this abbreviation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C1 I think it's best to consider making a library of tabread4~ alternatives, and later consider moving the different interpolation schemes to tabread4~ methods, if it's worth-while. I don't think that more than one alternative will be necessary. For 4-point table lookups that go through all the original points, I don't know why anyone would aim lower than a C2 piecewise-polynomial. Unfortunately, it would be somewhat too late to just call it [tabread4~]. Or not. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Abstractions search path hirarchy (was: pduino-arduino trouble)
On Wed, 18 Jun 2008, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Jun 18, 2008, at 7:54 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Wed, 18 Jun 2008, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: and then class-lookup is method-lookup in pd, because it's done through [objectmaker]'s method-list. Do you have a reference in the Pd code to look at this specific stuff? grep -n objectmaker *.c That I can do on my own, I was hoping for some human guidance... :) Well, I didn't think that I'd have to say to have a look at class_addmethod, because we're talking about adding a method to a class. Anyway, the thing doesn't use linked-lists, contrary to almost all other such things in pd, so I was wrong. However, it is true that it appends to the end of the list all of the time. It happens just after the t_resizebytes call. Personally, I wouldn't touch it, and instead I would change the method-lookup order in getfn(), zgetfn() and pd_typedmess(). Then I realise that it is already last-to-first, which is my second mistake. I don't know why I had the impression that it was first-to-last. On top of that, it's an aspect of pd for which dd is identical. So, I should've remembered. You can see that I'm getting a bit rusty ;) Ultimately, for the canvas-local namespaces to be complete, there needs to be a canvas-local method list too. I explained it in detail last year. Got no reply. Link? Ok, I found it, but in the end, it wasn't a full description, and it wasn't last year either. Turns out that I optimised-out the description from the mailing-list, as the description was going to be a reply to a reply that I did not receive. http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-dev/2006-09/007605.html http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-dev/2006-09/007607.html http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-dev/2006-09/007608.html But basically, the idea is that you have a tree of dummy singleton objects that are the objectmakers. They are singleton because each of them has its own class. They are dummy because the object itself is never used and itself contains no data (this exists because pd has no way to define non-object methods, and that's fine with me). Each objectmaker class defines the creators as methods: one per class, one per alias, and one per sub-namespace. Creators for classes and aliases are as usual. Creators for sub-namespaces are forwarders. They replace the selector from the message they get, with the $1 of the arglist. $1 is removed from the arglist. So: [foo bar baz 1 2 3] Might be a real creator for [baz 1 2 3] inside namespace representative [bar] inside namespace representative [foo]. Or it could be something else with less namespace levels and more arguments. If the ambiguïty of it icks you, there are other possibilities of design. Then if you don't want to use Miller namespaces such as in [list ...] classes, then you will have to check for namespace qualifiers in the classname and split the classname accordingly, sort of like [OSCroute] but not really. I used Miller namespaces because it makes less symbols in the symbol-table. I have other ideas as well, such as how to import a namespace without copying the method-table, and how to support a namespace that is being modified so that all its importing namespaces get the update. It's the same solution(s) for both problems. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
