Re: [PD] iemguts on windows

2009-04-05 Thread Georg Werner

hi,

@iohannes: thanks for the hint: i also installed automake and autoconf
@jonathan: see http://www.mingw.org/wiki/MSYS
g.

IOhannes m zmoelnig:

Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

Yes, I have msys installed.
Would it make a difference where pd is installed?


no not at all.
the makefile uses "filter" and "wildcard" commands, which iirc, are
built into Gnu make.
your version of make doesn't recognize them and tries to execute
commands of the very names.
unfortunately it cannot find these commands in your path, thus the errors.

fgamsdr
IOhannes



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Re: [PD] a story for Lists

2009-04-05 Thread Frank Barknecht
Hallo,
Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

> In keeping with the FLOSSmanuals methodology, we need a story to tell  
> when introducing lists.  I have the intro done, but now we need a story 
> (i.e. developing an example program).  I was thinking that a story 
> involving only lists of numbers would be a good place to start.

Sorry for not being able to contribute much currently (I'm moving houses) but I
think a neat usecase for lists and meta messages (which are important to
explain in that context as well) could be the ADSR envelope. Its parameters are
a list of four (rsp. five with level) numbers. It can be very useful to be able
to set a ADSR by passing complete lists. It can also be useful to set the
parameters with meta-messages like "A 20, D 30, S 76, R 300".

Here's an implementation of an adsr that relies heavily on list-processing:
http://footils.org/cms/weblog/2009/mar/21/adsr-envelopes-pd/

I would also strongly recommend to use a consistent terminology for lists that
are not lists in the Pd sense: I would call them meta-messages just like Miller
does, and if there's ambiguity the manual should call proper lists
"list-messages".

In the Lists-chapter at http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/PureData/Lists it
may be useful to also use a non-commutative math object like [/] or [-] with
list-input, because that's a useful trick to quickly get the inverse or
complement of a number: [1 $1(---[/ ]

Ciao
-- 
Frank

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Re: [PD] >, <, &&, || etc

2009-04-05 Thread Jonathan Wilkes




--- On Mon, 4/6/09, Martin Peach  wrote:

> From: Martin Peach 
> Subject: Re: [PD] >, <, &&, || etc
> To: "Mathieu Bouchard" 
> Cc: "pd list" 
> Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 5:50 AM
> Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> > On Sun, 5 Apr 2009, Martin Peach wrote:
> > 
> >>> The shell's [] (/usr/bin/test) also has
> -gt,-lt,-ge,-le,-eq,-ne, which it uses for numeric
> comparisons, whereas it uses >,<,>=,<=,==,!= for
> string comparisons. It also needs both by design.
> > 
> >> Sure, but bash is written in c and it can call its
> functions whatever it likes because they are built into the
> program. (It will also try to interpret your file name if it
> isn't alphanumeric)
> > 
> > The reason why I listed those examples is not to say
> that you could just use the special punctuation instead of
> letters. I'm just pointing you to what looks like a
> standard notation for writing those same concepts as
> letters, so that you write >= as "ge" instead
> of "greaterthanorequal" or
> "greaterequal" or "greq" or any other
> long and nonstandard combination.
> > 
> > That's all I mean. Do you understand?
> > 
> 
> Oh I see. But that notation is only standard in shell
> languages and is not going to help someone guess the name of
> the object or what it does, especially if they are not used
> to english. You could name [or] just [o] for example...a
> saving of one letter in exchange for an infinite increase in
> uncertainty. It would contribute to making Pd a secret
> language for initiates who bang until.

Are you saying that initiates would know a secret way to bang until that does 
not cause Pd to freeze?  Or, that an infinite increase in uncertainty would 
dull the users' senses so much that they could no longer tell the difference 
between an operational and frozen patch?

Pd is already a secret language for initiates.  Even your hypothetical beginner 
is required to guess the name and functionality of what should be a standard 
object.  But I imagine the work everyone is doing on organizing libraries by 
category will go a long way towards remedying that.

-Jonathan



> 
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> 
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Re: [PD] PD t-shirts

2009-04-05 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner


I like the DIY way.  It would be great if people organized their own  
fundraisers and bounties.  I think that fits in well with the anarchic  
nature of Pd.


There are things like cafepress.com for t-shirts and the like.  It is  
more expensive than doing it yourself, probably, but its easier.  It  
would be nice to see more than one Pd t-shirt available.  I'd like  
bang-until and that cake, for example.


.hc


On Apr 2, 2009, at 10:38 AM, Ben Baker-Smith wrote:


Thanks Kyle,

That's much more in line with what I'm looking to do.  I also cannot
afford to go to PdCon given that it's all the way in Brazil, and I'm
sure the majority of Pd users are in the same boat.  A documentation
bounty seems like a good way to encourage people to document, and give
them a way of justifying their time.  And, I agree, probably more
worthwhile than paying half of one person's ticket to Sao Paulo.

In regards to designs, and printing:

I'm thinking it might be cheapest (allowing more money to be raised)
for me to print the shirts myself.. I just need to come up with a
solid price estimate in the next couple days.  Also, this seems more
in line with the do-it-yourself attitude of Pd than, say, e-mailing a
.Gif file to an internet service and letting it all go through them.

I have  couple designs I've drawn up myself, and a few have been
submitted to me via this list.  So, hopefully by the end of the
weekend, I will upload them to my site and post a link on the list for
feedback.

-Ben

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:24 AM, Kyle Klipowicz   
wrote:

Yes, I agree that the fund should be for a documentation bounty.
I think that Ben (or whoever makes the shirts) should hold the  
money in
trust. Perhaps set up an interest-bearing account to save the cash  
in. Then
create a well-documented (pun?) bounty description of what key  
features are

to be implemented and the financial payment for each.
You could do micropayments for key help patches or examples, say  
$20 US
each, or a big bounty for larger sections such as re-organizing  
existing
patches into a tidy intro library for new uses, with ready-mades to  
go.
I think this would be a longer lasting value than paying for Pd- 
con. I'd
love to go myself, but probably cannot afford it...but I'd rather  
see some
solid documentation be built...or have the financial incentive to  
do it!

(Not a capitalist, just a hungry belly).
~Kyle

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Ben Baker-Smith >

wrote:


I'm open to the idea of donating proceeds to PdCon.  But, having  
never

been, I have some clarifying questions/concerns.

I would really prefer that any money from sales went toward
documentation, which in turn will increase useability and make PD  
more

accessible to new users.  Does the convention encourage/promote
documentation?  Is time spent at the convention trying to increase  
the

existing body of literature?

If so, then I'm all for it.  I just don't want to settle on PdCon if
it's only useful to attendees.  (of course, I understand that in a
good open-source community knowledge gained by any members  
contributes

in some way to the knowledge of the group... but I'm talking more
formal documention rather than more answers on the mailing list)

Glad to hear the interest.  I'm still looking into the best way to  
go

about printing, selling, and distributing.
If someone wants to partner up on this I'd be happy for the help and
added input.

-Ben



On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Alexandre Castonguay
 wrote:

Hi Ben, all,

We did the last batch of t's as a fundraiser for the Convention in
Montréal.  We managed to pay for another 1/2 plane ticket with the
proceeds :-).  Maybe the same could be done for São Paulo?

The super folks from Graz sent the file they used for the  
original t's I

should still have it if you want.

À bientôt,

Alexandre




Hello List,

I'm considering designing and selling PD related t-shirts.  I  
haven't

totally worked out the logistics.  Basically I was inspired by the
[Bang( shirts that I've seen online, but which are no longer  
available

as far as I can tell.

Anyway, if I did so, I would like to donate all of the proceeds  
toward

further PD development, specifically documentation of poorly
documented objects (or example patches, which is basically the  
same

thing).

How do you all think would be the best way of going about this?

Should I stockpile the money and then offer it to someone as a  
sort of
grant?  That's less than ideal in my opinion.  I really don't  
know how

to go about this.

Any/all input is welcome

-Ben

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Re: [PD] >, <, &&, || etc

2009-04-05 Thread Martin Peach

Mathieu Bouchard wrote:

On Sun, 5 Apr 2009, Martin Peach wrote:

The shell's [] (/usr/bin/test) also has -gt,-lt,-ge,-le,-eq,-ne, 
which it uses for numeric comparisons, whereas it uses 
>,<,>=,<=,==,!= for string comparisons. It also needs both by design.


Sure, but bash is written in c and it can call its functions whatever 
it likes because they are built into the program. (It will also try to 
interpret your file name if it isn't alphanumeric)


The reason why I listed those examples is not to say that you could just 
use the special punctuation instead of letters. I'm just pointing you to 
what looks like a standard notation for writing those same concepts as 
letters, so that you write >= as "ge" instead of "greaterthanorequal" or 
"greaterequal" or "greq" or any other long and nonstandard combination.


That's all I mean. Do you understand?



Oh I see. But that notation is only standard in shell languages and is 
not going to help someone guess the name of the object or what it does, 
especially if they are not used to english. You could name [or] just [o] 
for example...a saving of one letter in exchange for an infinite 
increase in uncertainty. It would contribute to making Pd a secret 
language for initiates who bang until.


Martin


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[PD] Pd suddenly crashing

2009-04-05 Thread David F. Place
Hello:

I have been using Pd quite happily under linux.  Suddenly it will not
start at all.  This is the error message I get:


> [da...@congo pd]$ pd
> pd: interval_inline.h:52: snd_interval_single: Assertion 
> `!snd_interval_empty(i)' failed.
> Pd: signal 6
> [da...@congo pd]$ pd_gui: pd process exited

Here are the versions:

> [da...@congo pd]$ pd -version
> Pd version 0.42-4
> compiled 08:34:59 Feb 10 2009
> [da...@congo pd]$ uname -a
> Linux Congo 2.6.27.21-78.2.41.fc9.x86_64 #1 SMP Mon Mar 23 23:22:15 EDT 2009 
> x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

Has anyone seen anything like this?  I have tried rebooting and
recompiling Pd.  I get the same message.  As you can see, I am running
the latest kernel.  Fearing that it might be the fault of the kernel, I
rebooted the previous kernel, but got the same result.  I am sure it
used to work with that kernel.

> [da...@congo ~]$ uname -a
> Linux Congo 2.6.27.19-78.2.30.fc9.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Feb 24 19:44:45 EST 2009 
> x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

Thanks in advance for your consideration.


Cheers,
David


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[PD] T-Shirt Designs Online

2009-04-05 Thread Ben Baker-Smith
Hello,

Didn't get much of a chance to work on designs myself this weekend,
but a few of you have sent me designs or suggestions over the past
week so I thought I'd at least get those up for you all to check out.

Let me know which designs you all like best.

http://benbakersmith.com/pdshirts.html

I'm leaning toward the pointer personally, but I think I can do two
designs so keep that in mind.

p.s. Sorry I didn't credit the designers, I don't feel like searching
through my archived mail right now.  I'll be sure to give props to
whoever's designs get used once that's all sorted out.

-- 
http://benbakersmith.com

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[PD] iemabs' output~

2009-04-05 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner


Is there anything that uses iemabs' output~?  I couldn't find a single  
patch that uses it, or any references to it on the pd-list.


The problem is that in Pd-extended, 'iemlib', which includes 'iemabs'  
is loaded by default.  That means that iemabs' output~ will be loaded  
before an output~ in 'extra'.  I'd like to set a global output~ that  
would be used in 3.audio.examples and 4.data.structures, but then  
would still be usable when you copy one of those patches outside of  
the original folder.


Would it be possible to remove output~.pd from iemabs?

.hc



"[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are  
deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from  
scarcity."-John Gilmore




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Re: [PD] pdpedia

2009-04-05 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner


Yes, Pd-extended has the "pdpedia" link in the Help Menu.  If you have  
a help patch open, that pdpeida menu command will take you to the  
pdpedia page for that help patch.


.hc

On Apr 2, 2009, at 9:00 PM, Alexandre Porres wrote:

hey, now I remember that the extended version has links to PdPedia,  
right?


So it is just a matter of carrying it on I suppose.

cheers

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:25 PM, IOhannes m zmoelnig  
 wrote:

Philip Potter wrote:
I tried to upload an image to pdpedia but uploads are disabled.

a) Are there any plans to allow uploads to pdpedia?
b) Does anyone have any suggestions for places to host images to be
used on pdpedia?

use the mediapool http://wiki.puredata.info/mediapool/Main_Page

mfgasdr
IOhannes



--
Alexandre Torres Porres
cel. (11)8179-6226
Website: http://porres.googlepages.com/home
http://www.myspace.com/alexandretorresporres

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Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally  
for machines to execute.

 - from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

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Re: [PD] >, <, &&, || etc

2009-04-05 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner


I think there a workable solution for the problem of object names that  
use characters that don't work on all filesystems.  For binaries, like  
>~, they can be linked into a .pd_linux that is loaded as part of the  
libdir.  One part of the libdir plan is to have a shared library that  
is loaded when the libdir is loaded.  That mechanism could also be  
used to load a file that includes these classes.


So a library like 'audiomath' would then have audiomath/ 
libaudiomath.pd_linux.  Normally, audiomath/libaudiomath.pd_linux  
would only include shared code, but for this case, it would also  
include the >~ class, etc.


.hc

On Apr 5, 2009, at 3:44 PM, Derek Holzer wrote:

Sorry not to be specific. I meant the signal ones. I have replaced  
all with [expr~].


D.

Frank Barknecht wrote:

Hallo,
Derek Holzer hat gesagt: // Derek Holzer wrote:
I have found that using these math functions doesn't always create  
on  different systems using Pd-Extended.

Is this really true? Because these objects for messages are builtins
and if builtins don't work in Pd extended that would be a severe
issue.
Of course it's different with their signal counterparts where they  
are

externals.
Ciao


--
::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista 
 :::

---Oblique Strategy # 168:
"Use fewer notes"

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for machines to execute.

 - from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs


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[PD] a story for Lists

2009-04-05 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner


In keeping with the FLOSSmanuals methodology, we need a story to tell  
when introducing lists.  I have the intro done, but now we need a  
story (i.e. developing an example program).  I was thinking that a  
story involving only lists of numbers would be a good place to start.


Anyone have any ideas on that?  Here's what's there so far:

http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/PureData/Lists

.hc




  http://at.or.at/hans/



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Re: [PD] >, <, &&, || etc

2009-04-05 Thread Derek Holzer
Sorry not to be specific. I meant the signal ones. I have replaced all 
with [expr~].


D.

Frank Barknecht wrote:

Hallo,
Derek Holzer hat gesagt: // Derek Holzer wrote:

I have found that using these math functions doesn't always create on  
different systems using Pd-Extended. 


Is this really true? Because these objects for messages are builtins
and if builtins don't work in Pd extended that would be a severe
issue.

Of course it's different with their signal counterparts where they are
externals.

Ciao


--
::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: 
http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista :::

---Oblique Strategy # 168:
"Use fewer notes"

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Re: [PD] >, <, &&, || etc

2009-04-05 Thread Frank Barknecht
Hallo,
Derek Holzer hat gesagt: // Derek Holzer wrote:

> I have found that using these math functions doesn't always create on  
> different systems using Pd-Extended. 

Is this really true? Because these objects for messages are builtins
and if builtins don't work in Pd extended that would be a severe
issue.

Of course it's different with their signal counterparts where they are
externals.

Ciao
-- 
 Frank BarknechtDo You RjDj.me?  _ __footils.org__

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Re: [PD] FLoss today

2009-04-05 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner


Hey,

It looks like a great list, but the table isn't rendering well on  
Camino/Mac OS X ( a mozilla-based browser) and Safari.  The table  
shows up on the far right of the window, over the chat window and such.


.hc

On Apr 5, 2009, at 5:10 AM, João Pais wrote:


Hi,

for the floss people on the field: I'll be around a bit later, like  
today. I've put some comments on the 1st page of the object list, http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/PureData/ListofObjects 
. It would be good to have some feedback on that later - or I move  
to some dataflow.


Bis later,

João Pais

--
Friedenstr. 58
10249 Berlin (Deutschland)
Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570
jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp

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Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to  
realize his wishes.  Now that he can realize them, he must either  
change them, or perish.-William Carlos Williams




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Re: [PD] interpolation of arrays

2009-04-05 Thread punchik punchik
Cool thanks,  i modified your patch for using with gem and without dps objects

check attached
bye

--- On Sun, 4/5/09, Martin Schied  wrote:

> From: Martin Schied 
> Subject: Re: [PD] interpolation of arrays
> To: "punchik punchik" 
> Cc: pd-list@iem.at
> Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 9:21 AM
> Martin Schied schrieb:
> > hi!
> > 
> > punchik punchik schrieb:
> >> Hello,  which is the best way for
> interpolating all the elements in a big array at the same
> time?
> >> im using each number of a big  array to
> control the color of  each geo in a iterated structure,
> so its not posible to use the smooth abstraction.
> >> Any idea?
> >>   
> > probably not the "best" way but much faster than
> [until], needs to have audio on.
> > 
> oops that was a quick one before bed...
> 
> attached a cleaned up and slightly adjusted version and a
> version using pixeltango/smooth. feel free to use, modify
> and redistribute.
> 
> Martin
>


  

table_blend_smooth_yo.pd
Description: Binary data
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Re: [PD] >, <, &&, || etc

2009-04-05 Thread Mathieu Bouchard

On Sun, 5 Apr 2009, Martin Peach wrote:

The shell's [] (/usr/bin/test) also has -gt,-lt,-ge,-le,-eq,-ne, which it 
uses for numeric comparisons, whereas it uses >,<,>=,<=,==,!= for string 
comparisons. It also needs both by design.


Sure, but bash is written in c and it can call its functions whatever it 
likes because they are built into the program. (It will also try to interpret 
your file name if it isn't alphanumeric)


The reason why I listed those examples is not to say that you could just 
use the special punctuation instead of letters. I'm just pointing you to 
what looks like a standard notation for writing those same concepts as 
letters, so that you write >= as "ge" instead of "greaterthanorequal" or 
"greaterequal" or "greq" or any other long and nonstandard combination.


That's all I mean. Do you understand?

 _ _ __ ___ _  _ _ ...
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[PD] [PD-announce] Call for participation: LIWOLI09

2009-04-05 Thread propaganda
Sorry for ><, please >>

--

Liwoli 2009
hacklab for art and open source
23 - 25 April 2009 - Kunstuniversität Linz

--

Liwoli 2009 is a three day long Hacklab and an open invitation to all
who would like to participate in an active process of learning,
producing and sharing around the areas of Free/Libre Open Source
Software and Art.  FLOSS developers, artists and programmers such as the
collective GOTO10 or activists from HAIP (Hack Act Interact Progress)
and many others form the basis for the event and share their knowledge
in the form of workshops, hacklabs, presentations, installations and
performances.

--

Please register NOW to book a place in some of the many FREE workshops!
http://linz.linuxwochen.at/en/programm/format/2009/Workshop
- Select a workshop
- Read the description
- Interested? Click on "Register" and fill the form

DEADLINE FOR REGISTRATION: 15/04/09 !!!

--

... and do not miss out on the rest of the event!
http://linz.linuxwochen.at/en/programm/format/2009/Vortrag
http://linz.linuxwochen.at/en/programm/format/2009/Presentation
http://linz.linuxwochen.at/en/programm/format/2009/Performance
http://linz.linuxwochen.at/en/programm/format/2009/Interviews
http://linz.linuxwochen.at/en/programm/format/2009/Intervention
http://linz.linuxwochen.at/en/programm/format/2009/Installation

With the participation of:

Andrea Mayr, Andreas Trawoeger, Arjan Scherpenisse, Aymeric Mansoux,
Christoph Haag, Claude Heiland-Allen, Dan Wilcox, Daniel Turing
David Ayers, Eleonora Oreggia, Georg Jakob, Holger Schöner,
Jan-Kees van Kampen, Johannes Kreidler, Marius Shebella,  
Pippa Buchanan, Ricardo Palmieri, Rob Canning, Robert Martin,
Roch Forowitz, Sascha Neudeck, Stéphanie Vilayphiou, Thomas Warwaris,
Yves Degoyon, ... and more to be confirmed!...

--

Questions?
http://linz.linuxwochen.at/en/contact
Where to sleep?
http://linz.linuxwochen.at/content/service

--

:*



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Re: [PD] pdpedia

2009-04-05 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner


Well, uploads should work, but I guess they don't.  If anyone wants to  
try to get them working, I can set them up with the shell login for  
the server.  The media pool should work now, it should be possible to  
fix the upload link so that it uses the Mediapool.  That's the  
wikipedia-style setup.


.hc

On Apr 2, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Philip Potter wrote:


I tried to upload an image to pdpedia but uploads are disabled.

a) Are there any plans to allow uploads to pdpedia?
b) Does anyone have any suggestions for places to host images to be
used on pdpedia?

I think it's pretty clear that images are important for a graphical
programming language :)

2009/4/2 Alexandre Porres :
yeah, well, I dont really have a clue on what is missing too,  
please check

then, and we will start with the most needed.

cheers

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Philip Potter >

wrote:


2009/4/1 Alexandre Porres :



does this mean that you want to make a reference manual of Every
Object,
no matter whether it has been implemented or not?


well, we could skip the not implemented ones for now :)


I think in the interests of starting somewhere, and with the basics,
I'm going to go through the pd help files in order and make sure
everything there is covered by pdpedia. We can do more advanced  
stuff
when pdpedia is a bit more developed, but for the moment, there  
isn't

even an article on "message", so I'll go and write that.


but what keeps us from doing this right now? what has kept us from
doing
so in the past few years of pdpedia's existance?
what shall we do to avoid becoming a honeypot?


hmm, sorry for not having followed the pdpedia since it has  
started, so

I
dont know actually about its history and everything. I just wish to
collaborate, so please fill me in.
what is honeypot? something not good I guess.


A honeypot is something attractive to spammers and hackers.

Philip




--
Alexandre Torres Porres
cel. (11)8179-6226
Website: http://porres.googlepages.com/home
http://www.myspace.com/alexandretorresporres






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"I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my
telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out
how to use my telephone."
--Bjarne Stroustrup

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Re: [PD] interpolation of arrays

2009-04-05 Thread Martin Schied

Martin Schied schrieb:

hi!

punchik punchik schrieb:
Hello,  which is the best way for interpolating all the elements in a 
big array at the same time?
im using each number of a big  array to control the color of  each 
geo in a iterated structure, so its not posible to use the smooth 
abstraction.

Any idea?
  
probably not the "best" way but much faster than [until], needs to 
have audio on.



oops that was a quick one before bed...

attached a cleaned up and slightly adjusted version and a version using 
pixeltango/smooth. feel free to use, modify and redistribute.


Martin


table_blend.pd
Description: application/puredata


table_blend_smooth.pd
Description: application/puredata
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[PD] FLoss today

2009-04-05 Thread João Pais

Hi,

for the floss people on the field: I'll be around a bit later, like today.  
I've put some comments on the 1st page of the object list,  
http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/PureData/ListofObjects. It would be  
good to have some feedback on that later - or I move to some dataflow.


Bis later,

João Pais

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