Re: [PD] raw audio format and open files randomly
cyrille henry wrote: yep, images are 8 bits, so S/N should be around 50dB. this only holds true if you are know about this when loading the file. since the files are opened as raw, they will be interpreted as 16bit or higher. fgasdr IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] raw audio format and open files randomly
On Sun, 2009-07-05 at 12:46 -0400, Martin Peach wrote: nick burge wrote: Hello list.Intrigued by the idea of playing back jpeg (or other) files as audio signals I've been having a go with the readsf~ and soundfiler objectsskipping the header with readsf~ and using the -raw flag in soundfiler, opening in an array and using tabplay~ to play it backwhilst I can get these objects to open the files and play them back, the results seem a bit disappointing...just a lot of white noise at a constant volume. The wave forms displayed in the array look more promising than the audio result Was I expecting too much? What else could I be doing to achieve a more interesting sound? Jpegs are usually compressed and compressed data looks like white noise. Maybe try uncompressed images with regular patterns in them, or low-pass filter the sound. or try single-channel files (blackwhite) instead of coloured files. depending on how you read the files and what bitdepth you assume (8/16/24/32bit), the same files is going to sound much different. let's say, you read a plain 3-channel rgb uncompressed image file (uncompressed tiff or bmp), where each channel has a bit depth of 8 bit, and you open such a file, while specifying 24 bit per sample, then your hearing sensation would almost only be influenced by the most significant byte (so to speak: by one of the three color channels). in order to treat all the channels the same, you would need to extract each channels first. as a start, it might be easier to play with only black and white images. the problem here is, that you cannot tell [readsf~] to assume 8 bit input. however, you could read it as 16 bit input and then extract the lower and upper 8 bit from each sample and write the resulting two samples to another array. rendered images containing simple gradients might sound less like pure noise than real photos. due to how many image formats are encoded, the width in pixel might correspond with the base frequency of the resuling sound, so this might be an important parameter to play with as well. yo, tell us, if you can come up with something 'interesting'. i'd be interested to hear and see. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] help_random/seed
it's nice to observe that an extensive/productive conversation has come about from my question in regards to random systems, and it's quite informative to follow, and frankly a bit far from my current reach of knowledge, but what is important for me at the moment is to learn the general difference between random pseudo-random the various applications that is possible with random systems via the several examples given. will try to build from there... thanks again folks, :) Cem Güney myspace. . lastfm. . tumblr. . cronica From: Martin Peach martin.pe...@sympatico.ca To: cem guney cemthemutegu...@yahoo.com Cc: pd list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 7:44:05 PM Subject: Re: [PD] help_random/seed cem guney wrote: hi, thanks much for your response! also in regards to your explanation, It would be nice if the random source could be independently specified for all the pd objects that use random numbers, since the count of unreachable combinations when using the standard deterministic chaos generators is infinite any application examples as to why it would be nice if the random source could be independently specified? Well I think it's mainly a philosophical thing about the meaning of 'random', but probably there are sequence generators for music that sound different with 'truly' random vs pseudo-random numbers. Sometimes you may want a repeating chaotic sequence, sometimes a completely random one. For cryptography, as in a one-time pad, pseudo-random is relatively easy to crack. There are at most 65536 different sequences with typical pseudo-random generators, but that's not any inherent limitation of pseudo-random, just the particular implementation that's often used. Also with games like rolling dice or shuffling cards, you probably want it to be completely unpredictable, or regular players will begin to recognize patterns. Pseudo-random white noise playing at audio rate will actually be a repeating waveform several minutes or hours long. It's up to you if that matters or not. Martin ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] help_random/seed
IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Andrew Faraday wrote: Just an idea, but if the hardware random number generators use a jittery oscillator etc. Why not use [noise~] and [snapshot~] followed by some arithmetic and [int] you could build what I assume would be more random than the [random] box. weird idea. especially, since [noise~] uses exactly the same pseudo-random algorithm as [snapshot~]. Snapshot~ outputs random numbers? That would explain a lot of oddities in my patches ;) What does make sense is to use noise *from the adc* with snapshot~ to get seeds for your random objects, I think that was what Frank meant with the Can of Beats patch. Cheers, g. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] help_random/seed
Georg Bosch wrote: IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Andrew Faraday wrote: Just an idea, but if the hardware random number generators use a jittery oscillator etc. Why not use [noise~] and [snapshot~] followed by some arithmetic and [int] you could build what I assume would be more random than the [random] box. weird idea. especially, since [noise~] uses exactly the same pseudo-random algorithm as [snapshot~]. Snapshot~ outputs random numbers? That would explain a lot of oddities in my patches ;) man, it was early in the morning What does make sense is to use noise *from the adc* with snapshot~ to get seeds for your random objects, I think that was what Frank meant with the Can of Beats patch. yes that is a perfectly good idea (at least if you can make sure that the [adc~] will be hooked up to some real-world soundsource) and then there is the wide range of time-based seeds (e.g. uptime of the computer, system time...) gf asdrm IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] help_random/seed
I'm fairly sure that [snapshot~] doesn't generate random numbers, but marks the current point of an audio signal. Although this whole thing's got me thinking... If you use [snapshot~], attached to a real world sound source [adc~] to generate random numbers, then increasing volume would increase the range of your random generation. For instance [adc~]|[snapshot~] (plus a bang)|[+ 1]|[* 10]|[int] In this case a sound source at a solid 1 - -1 volume (such as [osc~]) would give you a number from 0 to 20, when the bang is sent. but a quieter sound source e.g. 0.2 - -0.2 would provide a number from 0 - 4 Anyone fault my logic? Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:37:35 +0200 From: zmoel...@iem.at To: k...@stillavailable.com CC: pd-list@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] help_random/seed Georg Bosch wrote: IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Andrew Faraday wrote: Just an idea, but if the hardware random number generators use a jittery oscillator etc. Why not use [noise~] and [snapshot~] followed by some arithmetic and [int] you could build what I assume would be more random than the [random] box. weird idea. especially, since [noise~] uses exactly the same pseudo-random algorithm as [snapshot~]. Snapshot~ outputs random numbers? That would explain a lot of oddities in my patches ;) man, it was early in the morning What does make sense is to use noise *from the adc* with snapshot~ to get seeds for your random objects, I think that was what Frank meant with the Can of Beats patch. yes that is a perfectly good idea (at least if you can make sure that the [adc~] will be hooked up to some real-world soundsource) and then there is the wide range of time-based seeds (e.g. uptime of the computer, system time...) gf asdrm IOhannes _ With Windows Live, you can organise, edit, and share your photos. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665338/direct/01/___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] space-projects (net.music, virtuell-real etc.) in pd
hello, i m looking for projects written in pd (or max) with space as a main subject... like lemma 1 and 2 from the global-visual-music-project (puckette). thanks. _ http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0906xWLHM2 Unbegrenzter Speicher bei Windows Live Hotmail!___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] looking for a frequency crossover (split a signal in 2 frequency bands)
Hello, do you know about a ready made external/abstraction allowing to split a signal in 2 frequency bands with minimal crosstalk? I only found an old post mentioning x-equ~.pd but the link to the library doesn't work anymore. Thanks, S ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] help_random/seed
Andrew Faraday wrote: I'm fairly sure that [snapshot~] doesn't generate random numbers, but marks the current point of an audio signal. indeed Although this whole thing's got me thinking... If you use [snapshot~], attached to a real world sound source [adc~] to generate random numbers, then increasing volume would increase the range of your random generation. For instance [adc~]|[snapshot~] (plus a bang)|[+ 1]|[* 10]|[int] first of all: [adc~] is _not_ a random number generator. it is an interface to the outside world. whatever is attached to your soundcard (or whatever feeds [adc~] will determine what comes out of [snapshot~]. e.g. if i connect [adc~] to [dac~] then i might hear whatever is recorded by my built-in microphone. i would not consider this noise in the strict mathematical sense. if you connect an analog noise generator to your soundcard, then you might get a nice (and truely random, though coloured) noise. now a real-world analog-digital converter always produces a (hopefully small) bit of thermal nose, which can be used as either a noise-source by itself (but take care, if you speak into the microphone...) or as a truely-random seed generator for a pseudo-random number generator. the latter might give more what you would expect. the former has (apart from the microphone problem) the drawback, that it will only generate a single random number per audio-block (or to be precise: 64 for of them); which might be just too few for your application... In this case a sound source at a solid 1 - -1 volume (such as [osc~]) would give you a number from 0 to 20, when the bang is sent. but a quieter sound source e.g. 0.2 - -0.2 would provide a number from 0 - 4 Anyone fault my logic? simple primary school mathematics? ([-1..1] + 1)*10 = [0..2]*10 = [0..20] ([-0.2..0.2] + 1)*10 = [0.8..1.2]*10 = [8..12] fmgasdr IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] help_random/seed
Andrew Faraday wrote: But I'm fairly sure my result would be the same. A louder sound into a microphone would result in a wider range of possible outcomes from a snapshot being taken. Less sound would result in a lower range. yes, but this is not very surprising, is it? fgamsdr IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] help_random/seed
Maybe this may be of interest: http://www.random.org/sounds/description/ Kind regards, Loerenzo IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Andrew Faraday wrote: I'm fairly sure that [snapshot~] doesn't generate random numbers, but marks the current point of an audio signal. indeed Although this whole thing's got me thinking... If you use [snapshot~], attached to a real world sound source [adc~] to generate random numbers, then increasing volume would increase the range of your random generation. For instance [adc~]|[snapshot~] (plus a bang)|[+ 1]|[* 10]|[int] first of all: [adc~] is _not_ a random number generator. it is an interface to the outside world. whatever is attached to your soundcard (or whatever feeds [adc~] will determine what comes out of [snapshot~]. e.g. if i connect [adc~] to [dac~] then i might hear whatever is recorded by my built-in microphone. i would not consider this noise in the strict mathematical sense. if you connect an analog noise generator to your soundcard, then you might get a nice (and truely random, though coloured) noise. now a real-world analog-digital converter always produces a (hopefully small) bit of thermal nose, which can be used as either a noise-source by itself (but take care, if you speak into the microphone...) or as a truely-random seed generator for a pseudo-random number generator. the latter might give more what you would expect. the former has (apart from the microphone problem) the drawback, that it will only generate a single random number per audio-block (or to be precise: 64 for of them); which might be just too few for your application... In this case a sound source at a solid 1 - -1 volume (such as [osc~]) would give you a number from 0 to 20, when the bang is sent. but a quieter sound source e.g. 0.2 - -0.2 would provide a number from 0 - 4 Anyone fault my logic? simple primary school mathematics? ([-1..1] + 1)*10 = [0..2]*10 = [0..20] ([-0.2..0.2] + 1)*10 = [0.8..1.2]*10 = [8..12] fmgasdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] looking for a frequency crossover (split a signal in 2 frequency bands)
Simple recommendation is to chain several [lop~] objects for the low band, and several [hip~] objects for the high band. The more you put in the chain, the less crosstalk you will have. Use same cutoff frequency for each of course. best, D. stefano.pape...@univr.it wrote: Hello, do you know about a ready made external/abstraction allowing to split a signal in 2 frequency bands with minimal crosstalk? I only found an old post mentioning x-equ~.pd but the link to the library doesn't work anymore. -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 159: Tidy up ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Pd livecoding cheat sheet
Hey PdPeople, There's going to be a livecoding event here in London and I wanted to use Pd to do something. I was wondering if there is a Pd cheatsheet around? E.g. a graphical display of common Pd idioms (counters, opening sound files, etc.) which I can keep next to my screen since I am so forgetful? Ideally I'd like to do a set using no abstractions at all. If not, I guess I should start one. Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd livecoding cheat sheet
Hello Chris, I don't have any answer about your questions but I have a project who called Blank Pages. This project is to organize sessions of improvisation with Pure Data without any preparation. All the participants must start with a blank pages in Pure Data. For more informations, go to website : www.blankpages.fr That will very a good time to organize a session in London. Is that possible? Cheers Thomas Chris McCormick a écrit : Hey PdPeople, There's going to be a livecoding event here in London and I wanted to use Pd to do something. I was wondering if there is a Pd cheatsheet around? E.g. a graphical display of common Pd idioms (counters, opening sound files, etc.) which I can keep next to my screen since I am so forgetful? Ideally I'd like to do a set using no abstractions at all. If not, I guess I should start one. Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] looking for a frequency crossover (split a signal in 2 frequency bands)
Hi Derek, I'm already preparing a patch that works in that way. Indeed 1 pole is not enough to avoid crosstalk. Thanks ;) Best, S - Messaggio originale - Da: Derek Holzer de...@umatic.nl Data: Monday, July 6, 2009 15:31 Oggetto: Re: [PD] looking for a frequency crossover (split a signal in 2 frequency bands) A: stefano.pape...@univr.it Cc: pd-list@iem.at Simple recommendation is to chain several [lop~] objects for the low band, and several [hip~] objects for the high band. The more you put in the chain, the less crosstalk you will have. Use same cutoff frequency for each of course. best, D. stefano.pape...@univr.it wrote: Hello, do you know about a ready made external/abstraction allowing to split a signal in 2 frequency bands with minimal crosstalk? I only found an old post mentioning x-equ~.pd but the link to the library doesn't work anymore. -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 159: Tidy up ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd livecoding cheat sheet
Hi! Probably the best person to contact is Alex Maclean http://yaxu.org/ who is the organiser, as far as I know. Blank pages looks trÚs cool. :) Chris. On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 04:17:39PM +0200, matohawk wrote: Hello Chris, I don't have any answer about your questions but I have a project who called Blank Pages. This project is to organize sessions of improvisation with Pure Data without any preparation. All the participants must start with a blank pages in Pure Data. For more informations, go to website : www.blankpages.fr That will very a good time to organize a session in London. Is that possible? Cheers Thomas Chris McCormick a écrit : Hey PdPeople, There's going to be a livecoding event here in London and I wanted to use Pd to do something. I was wondering if there is a Pd cheatsheet around? E.g. a graphical display of common Pd idioms (counters, opening sound files, etc.) which I can keep next to my screen since I am so forgetful? Ideally I'd like to do a set using no abstractions at all. If not, I guess I should start one. Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list --- http://mccormick.cx ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Pd livecoding cheat sheet
It looks very nice! I'll keep that in mind, just to see if it is possible here in buenos aires in the near future... regards! On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Chris McCormickch...@mccormick.cx wrote: Hi! Probably the best person to contact is Alex Maclean http://yaxu.org/ who is the organiser, as far as I know. Blank pages looks trÚs cool. :) Chris. On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 04:17:39PM +0200, matohawk wrote: Hello Chris, I don't have any answer about your questions but I have a project who called Blank Pages. This project is to organize sessions of improvisation with Pure Data without any preparation. All the participants must start with a blank pages in Pure Data. For more informations, go to website : www.blankpages.fr That will very a good time to organize a session in London. Is that possible? Cheers Thomas Chris McCormick a écrit : Hey PdPeople, There's going to be a livecoding event here in London and I wanted to use Pd to do something. I was wondering if there is a Pd cheatsheet around? E.g. a graphical display of common Pd idioms (counters, opening sound files, etc.) which I can keep next to my screen since I am so forgetful? Ideally I'd like to do a set using no abstractions at all. If not, I guess I should start one. Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list --- http://mccormick.cx ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] just to look at
...and to say thank you to all the pd comunity. its mainly Pure data and Gem in combunation with 3dsMax. hope you#180;ll enjoy. der.brandt http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=druier3JlOceurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fhome.php%3Ffeature=player_embedded ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
