Re: [PD] Combat aliasing!
Wait, so aliasing occurs when the signal is sampled? So if i have this patch : [adc~] | | | [dac~] and if the signal already contains frequencies above the Nyquist, i will get aliasing? I generally use my electric guitar as the main audio source, and i'm assuming that it has lots of harmonics beyond the Nyquist frequency (especially when the strings are new), yet i never noticed any distortion of any sort. I might have a bad ear... Or is it just that the energy of the upper harmonics is too low for me to notice when they cause aliasing? Pierre 2010/4/1 Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com Correct, nothing played back at original sampling rate will alias. It _won't_ alias; it may already _have_ aliased when sampled in the first place. Aliasing occurs when sampling. When you digitalize (ADC), you are sampling. When generating a waveform mathematically, you are sampling the mathematical function at the very moment you compute its value at discrete points. When you play back a signal at a different speed than the original, you are _resampling_ it, that is, theorically, interpolating it and then sampling it again, and it is the sampling stage, not the interpolating one, that produces the aliasing. The interpolation, since it cannot be an ideal interpolation, may introduce other noises or artifacts, not aliasing as far as I can see. -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com http://www.matteosistisette.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] mapping_video
Ehy kubriel, very nice work! Just one question: why did you use curve3d for a 4 points shape? polygon was not enough? Or may you can control a shape with more than 4 points and I didn't take notice? cheers husk On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 12:54 PM, kubriel kubr...@gmail.com wrote: hallo, i made quite user friendly projection mapping abstraction for video. it is based on curve3d(thanks to iohannes), but with useful and fast interface, as you know from moving rectangles in inkscape. i used it to make this instalation http://www.direkt.sk/_/bx/feedback/13.jpg this is, how the interface looks http://www.direkt.sk/_/mapping_video.png http://www.direkt.sk/_/mapping_video.zip mapping_video.zip, (5,9Kb): mappingvideo-MAINPATCH.pd - to check whats going on try this pytagoras.pd vertex.pd videoplayer.pd stred_bodov.pd video_ext.pd - this is the object itself it is pretty big mess, i know. also names of abstractions are not very clean, i can make it better if somebody wants to modify it. it is only what i used, i offer to you, with hope to help somebody have a nice day ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- If identity in the Post-modernism is nothing you can call me a RadikalTeknoFreak Hartivist www.estereotips.net qeve.estereotips.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Combat aliasing!
Pierre Massat escribió: Wait, so aliasing occurs when the signal is sampled? So if i have this patch : [adc~] | | | [dac~] and if the signal already contains frequencies above the Nyquist, i will get aliasing? Well obviously (or not) a real-world ADC (e.g. a sound card) always includes an analog lowpass filter that cuts off the frequencies above Nyquit before actually digitalizing However, when you sample a mathematically generated signal, such as: [phasor~ 1000] | [dac~] then no filtering occurs, and aliasing does occur. More evident: [osc~ 4] | [dac~] -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com http://www.matteosistisette.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Combat aliasing!
Pierre Massat a écrit : Wait, so aliasing occurs when the signal is sampled? yes So if i have this patch : [adc~] | | | [dac~] and if the signal already contains frequencies above the Nyquist, i will get aliasing? yes, it will. so usually, your sound card have an analog filter prior to digital convertion in order to reduce aliasing. cyrille I generally use my electric guitar as the main audio source, and i'm assuming that it has lots of harmonics beyond the Nyquist frequency (especially when the strings are new), yet i never noticed any distortion of any sort. I might have a bad ear... Or is it just that the energy of the upper harmonics is too low for me to notice when they cause aliasing? Pierre 2010/4/1 Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com mailto:matteosistise...@gmail.com Correct, nothing played back at original sampling rate will alias. It _won't_ alias; it may already _have_ aliased when sampled in the first place. Aliasing occurs when sampling. When you digitalize (ADC), you are sampling. When generating a waveform mathematically, you are sampling the mathematical function at the very moment you compute its value at discrete points. When you play back a signal at a different speed than the original, you are _resampling_ it, that is, theorically, interpolating it and then sampling it again, and it is the sampling stage, not the interpolating one, that produces the aliasing. The interpolation, since it cannot be an ideal interpolation, may introduce other noises or artifacts, not aliasing as far as I can see. -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com mailto:matteosistise...@gmail.com http://www.matteosistisette.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Combat aliasing!
Alright, i got it! Thanks everybody! Pierre 2010/4/1 cyrille henry c...@chnry.net Pierre Massat a écrit : Wait, so aliasing occurs when the signal is sampled? yes So if i have this patch : [adc~] | | | [dac~] and if the signal already contains frequencies above the Nyquist, i will get aliasing? yes, it will. so usually, your sound card have an analog filter prior to digital convertion in order to reduce aliasing. cyrille I generally use my electric guitar as the main audio source, and i'm assuming that it has lots of harmonics beyond the Nyquist frequency (especially when the strings are new), yet i never noticed any distortion of any sort. I might have a bad ear... Or is it just that the energy of the upper harmonics is too low for me to notice when they cause aliasing? Pierre 2010/4/1 Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com mailto: matteosistise...@gmail.com Correct, nothing played back at original sampling rate will alias. It _won't_ alias; it may already _have_ aliased when sampled in the first place. Aliasing occurs when sampling. When you digitalize (ADC), you are sampling. When generating a waveform mathematically, you are sampling the mathematical function at the very moment you compute its value at discrete points. When you play back a signal at a different speed than the original, you are _resampling_ it, that is, theorically, interpolating it and then sampling it again, and it is the sampling stage, not the interpolating one, that produces the aliasing. The interpolation, since it cannot be an ideal interpolation, may introduce other noises or artifacts, not aliasing as far as I can see. -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com mailto:matteosistise...@gmail.com http://www.matteosistisette.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] OS X 10.6: unplugging headphones crashes Pd
that one can't load gem on my machine: Referenced from: /Applications/Pd-0.42.5-extended-20100401.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/../../lib/libgmerlin_avdec.1.dylib Reason: image not found Gem: can't load library m. Am 31.03.2010 um 17:44 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: Pd-0.42.5-extended-macosx104-i386.dmg31-Mar-2010 04:35 46M .hc On Mar 31, 2010, at 9:34 AM, Max wrote: do you mean Pd-0.42.5-extended-macosx105-i386.dmg20-Jan-2010 10:19 39M or Pd-0.42.5-extended-macosx104-i386.dmg31-Mar-2010 04:35 46M ? Am 30.03.2010 um 23:20 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: Try a nightly build of Pd-extended 0.42.5, I updated the portaudio code, which I think tries to address these issues. .hc On Mar 30, 2010, at 1:43 PM, Max wrote: i can _not_ reproduce that with *any* patch here. the sound is gone after unplugging headphones, but disabling it an re-enabeling it in the Pd window makes the Sound come back on the internal speakers. Not the desired way but no crash or freeze either. m. Am 30.03.2010 um 16:00 schrieb Derek Holzer: Well, in my workshop, *any* patch would do it no sense in posting one. D. On 3/30/10 3:34 PM, Max wrote: it's not fixed by the OS update. i only had this phenomenon if GEM was involved too and submitted that to the bugtracker a while ago http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=2929298group_id=55736atid=478070 if you can make a patch where GEM is not involved and it still crashes with Pd when the phone is unplugged then that would be good to post here. max Am 30.03.2010 um 02:36 schrieb Nils Sundtrom: I had garageband crash when I unplugged the headphones yesterday, I wonder if there update today fixed the issue. Nils On 10-03-27 11:00 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Yeah, I've seen some Leopard issues with audio too. I blame Apple ;). I think the issue is in portaudio, so hopefully that will get fixed, then I can update it in Pd-extended. Have anyone on 10.6 tried a recently 0.42.5 nightly? .hc On Mar 26, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Marco Donnarumma wrote: Had the same problem with my students. Jack seems to work well for most of them, but few still have random crash. M On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Derek Holzerde...@umatic.nl wrote: Sorry for the added noise, this meant for the Pd list, not Pd-announce... D. On 3/26/10 3:27 PM, Derek Holzer wrote: This is a new one to me, but four of my students can reproduce it every time with Mac OS 10.6, with or without JACK, using Pd-Extended 0.41.4. Unplugging or plugging the headphones while Pd is running freezes Pd completely, requiring a Force Quit. It does this regardless of whether audio processing is turned on or off. I tried looking at Aggregate Devices, however the built-in output already appears as one device. Anybody know how to fix this one? D. -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 161: Trust in the you of now ___ Pd-announce mailing list pd-annou...@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce -- Marco Donnarumma aka TheSAD Independent New Media Arts Professional, Performer, Teacher - Edinburgh, UK PORTFOLIO: http://marcodonnarumma.com LAB: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | http://www.flxer.net EVENT: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish.-William Carlos Williams ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 201: What were the branch points in the evolution of this entity? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list http://at.or.at/hans/ We have nothing
Re: [PD] Combat aliasing!
and I forgot to say, if you use [vd~] to circumvent [delread~]'s delay limitation, you will also find that [vd~] is a lot slower (taking more cpu), and that's normal, because [vd~] does antialiasing, whereas [delread~] does not. I don't know who Karplus-Strong is, but from your dissertation I get the impression that what you call antialising here is what I would call interpolation ¿? -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com http://www.matteosistisette.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] OS X 10.6: unplugging headphones crashes Pd
Hmm, I've seen this with libfaad.0.dylib too. The file is there, right? Can you include the whole error message? there should be a line above it. .hc On Apr 1, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Max wrote: that one can't load gem on my machine: Referenced from: /Applications/Pd-0.42.5-extended-20100401.app/ Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/../../lib/libgmerlin_avdec.1.dylib Reason: image not found Gem: can't load library m. Am 31.03.2010 um 17:44 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: Pd-0.42.5-extended-macosx104-i386.dmg31-Mar-2010 04:35 46M .hc On Mar 31, 2010, at 9:34 AM, Max wrote: do you mean Pd-0.42.5-extended-macosx105-i386.dmg20-Jan-2010 10:19 39M or Pd-0.42.5-extended-macosx104-i386.dmg31-Mar-2010 04:35 46M ? Am 30.03.2010 um 23:20 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: Try a nightly build of Pd-extended 0.42.5, I updated the portaudio code, which I think tries to address these issues. .hc On Mar 30, 2010, at 1:43 PM, Max wrote: i can _not_ reproduce that with *any* patch here. the sound is gone after unplugging headphones, but disabling it an re-enabeling it in the Pd window makes the Sound come back on the internal speakers. Not the desired way but no crash or freeze either. m. Am 30.03.2010 um 16:00 schrieb Derek Holzer: Well, in my workshop, *any* patch would do it no sense in posting one. D. On 3/30/10 3:34 PM, Max wrote: it's not fixed by the OS update. i only had this phenomenon if GEM was involved too and submitted that to the bugtracker a while ago http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=2929298group_id=55736atid=478070 if you can make a patch where GEM is not involved and it still crashes with Pd when the phone is unplugged then that would be good to post here. max Am 30.03.2010 um 02:36 schrieb Nils Sundtrom: I had garageband crash when I unplugged the headphones yesterday, I wonder if there update today fixed the issue. Nils On 10-03-27 11:00 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Yeah, I've seen some Leopard issues with audio too. I blame Apple ;). I think the issue is in portaudio, so hopefully that will get fixed, then I can update it in Pd-extended. Have anyone on 10.6 tried a recently 0.42.5 nightly? .hc On Mar 26, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Marco Donnarumma wrote: Had the same problem with my students. Jack seems to work well for most of them, but few still have random crash. M On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Derek Holzerde...@umatic.nl wrote: Sorry for the added noise, this meant for the Pd list, not Pd-announce... D. On 3/26/10 3:27 PM, Derek Holzer wrote: This is a new one to me, but four of my students can reproduce it every time with Mac OS 10.6, with or without JACK, using Pd-Extended 0.41.4. Unplugging or plugging the headphones while Pd is running freezes Pd completely, requiring a Force Quit. It does this regardless of whether audio processing is turned on or off. I tried looking at Aggregate Devices, however the built-in output already appears as one device. Anybody know how to fix this one? D. -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 161: Trust in the you of now ___ Pd-announce mailing list pd-annou...@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce -- Marco Donnarumma aka TheSAD Independent New Media Arts Professional, Performer, Teacher - Edinburgh, UK PORTFOLIO: http://marcodonnarumma.com LAB: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | http://www.flxer.net EVENT: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish.-William Carlos Williams ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 201: What were the branch points in the evolution of this entity? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list http://at.or.at/hans
Re: [PD] OS X 10.6: unplugging headphones crashes Pd
ah right, the full error reads: -- /Applications/Pd-0.42.5-extended-20100401.app/Contents/Resources/extra/Gem/Gem.pd_darwin: dlopen(/Applications/Pd-0.42.5-extended-20100401.app/Contents/Resources/extra/Gem/Gem.pd_darwin, 10): Library not loaded: /sw/lib/libfaad.0.dylib Referenced from: /Applications/Pd-0.42.5-extended-20100401.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/../../lib/libgmerlin_avdec.1.dylib Reason: image not found Gem: can't load library -- the directory /sw doesn't exist here. m. Am 01.04.2010 um 14:41 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: Hmm, I've seen this with libfaad.0.dylib too. The file is there, right? Can you include the whole error message? there should be a line above it. .hc On Apr 1, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Max wrote: that one can't load gem on my machine: Referenced from: /Applications/Pd-0.42.5-extended-20100401.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/../../lib/libgmerlin_avdec.1.dylib Reason: image not found Gem: can't load library m. Am 31.03.2010 um 17:44 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: Pd-0.42.5-extended-macosx104-i386.dmg31-Mar-2010 04:35 46M .hc On Mar 31, 2010, at 9:34 AM, Max wrote: do you mean Pd-0.42.5-extended-macosx105-i386.dmg20-Jan-2010 10:19 39M or Pd-0.42.5-extended-macosx104-i386.dmg31-Mar-2010 04:35 46M ? Am 30.03.2010 um 23:20 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: Try a nightly build of Pd-extended 0.42.5, I updated the portaudio code, which I think tries to address these issues. .hc On Mar 30, 2010, at 1:43 PM, Max wrote: i can _not_ reproduce that with *any* patch here. the sound is gone after unplugging headphones, but disabling it an re-enabeling it in the Pd window makes the Sound come back on the internal speakers. Not the desired way but no crash or freeze either. m. Am 30.03.2010 um 16:00 schrieb Derek Holzer: Well, in my workshop, *any* patch would do it no sense in posting one. D. On 3/30/10 3:34 PM, Max wrote: it's not fixed by the OS update. i only had this phenomenon if GEM was involved too and submitted that to the bugtracker a while ago http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=2929298group_id=55736atid=478070 if you can make a patch where GEM is not involved and it still crashes with Pd when the phone is unplugged then that would be good to post here. max Am 30.03.2010 um 02:36 schrieb Nils Sundtrom: I had garageband crash when I unplugged the headphones yesterday, I wonder if there update today fixed the issue. Nils On 10-03-27 11:00 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Yeah, I've seen some Leopard issues with audio too. I blame Apple ;). I think the issue is in portaudio, so hopefully that will get fixed, then I can update it in Pd-extended. Have anyone on 10.6 tried a recently 0.42.5 nightly? .hc On Mar 26, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Marco Donnarumma wrote: Had the same problem with my students. Jack seems to work well for most of them, but few still have random crash. M On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Derek Holzerde...@umatic.nl wrote: Sorry for the added noise, this meant for the Pd list, not Pd-announce... D. On 3/26/10 3:27 PM, Derek Holzer wrote: This is a new one to me, but four of my students can reproduce it every time with Mac OS 10.6, with or without JACK, using Pd-Extended 0.41.4. Unplugging or plugging the headphones while Pd is running freezes Pd completely, requiring a Force Quit. It does this regardless of whether audio processing is turned on or off. I tried looking at Aggregate Devices, however the built-in output already appears as one device. Anybody know how to fix this one? D. -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 161: Trust in the you of now ___ Pd-announce mailing list pd-annou...@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce -- Marco Donnarumma aka TheSAD Independent New Media Arts Professional, Performer, Teacher - Edinburgh, UK PORTFOLIO: http://marcodonnarumma.com LAB: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | http://www.flxer.net EVENT: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish.-William Carlos Williams ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management
Re: [PD] propertybang-help
On 2010-03-31 19:49, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: propertybang-help.pd says that [propertybang] is per abstraction, but it's per abstraction _instance_, right? indeed. but hen: how would you right-click on an abstraction class (that is: not an instance?) Also, it states that you can't have them per subpatch-- what exactly does this mean? i guess it means that you cannot put it into a subpatch and expect the subpatch to have properties. sorry if the answers sound obvious. fgasmdr IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] propertybang-help
On 2010-04-01 03:18, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: note also that merely loading [propertybang] is disabling the properties menu item on every GOP in its parent patch except the ones that use [propertybang]... note also that [propertybang] writes to a global variable in a way that no other external can compete with, apparently... i'd very much like to use [propertybang] or code something similar to it, but I'm not very comfortable with some things that it does. sure, any help is welcome. fgmasdr IOhannes PS: is it just my broken thunderbird that fails to put your answers into the correct thread (or any thread at all) or is there a reason why alpine does not add any in-reply-to or references fields? smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] propertybang-help
On 2010-04-01 16:26, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: On 2010-04-01 03:18, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: note also that merely loading [propertybang] is disabling the properties menu item on every GOP in its parent patch except the ones that use [propertybang]... fixed now (as far as i can) note also that [propertybang] writes to a global variable in a way that no other external can compete with, apparently... that's the unfortunate way how Pd handles classes. i would love it, if each instance would actually have a copy of the class data, rather than all instances pointing to the same class data. i'd very much like to use [propertybang] or code something similar to it, but I'm not very comfortable with some things that it does. is it better now? fgmasdr IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] propertybang-help
On 2010-04-01 16:21, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: On 2010-03-31 19:49, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: propertybang-help.pd says that [propertybang] is per abstraction, but it's per abstraction _instance_, right? indeed. but hen: how would you right-click on an abstraction class (that is: not an instance?) Also, it states that you can't have them per subpatch-- what exactly does this mean? i guess it means that you cannot put it into a subpatch and expect the subpatch to have properties. as a matter of fact this is wrong. you can put [propertybang] into your [pd] and be happy with it. i updated the help-patch. fgam,sdr IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tabread4~ broken interpolation algorithm - was Re:, Max Smoother Audio than Pd?
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Matteo Sisti Sette
matteosistise...@gmail.com wrote:
It occurs to me that there exists one very obvious function for which
the squared error is minimized for a 4-point interpolator. 4-point
interpolator impulse functions have to be 0 outside the interval
[-2,2].
So,
E=|f(x)-sinc(x)|^2 is minimized when
f(x)={sinc(x) -2x2 , 0 elsewhere
I may be missing something but I'm afraid the E in your formula is not the
error that is supposed to be minimized.
Sorry, I often go kind of fast-and-loose with the math, but I think
you'll see it's true within a certain context, which you may or may
not accept.
The ideally interpolated signal (which is the one in reference to which the
error has to be minimized) is not just a sinc: it is the sum of an infinite
series of sinc's centered at the sampled points and scaled with the sampled
values.
Let x be the series of samples, each multiplied by Dirac-delta
functions at the sample times. Let S be the convolution operator
which convolves a function by sinc(t) and let F be our arbitrary
convolution operator which convolves by an interpolation function
f(t).
Then, the quantities we need to compare are Sx and Fx where we want to
minimize the L2 norm, the integral of the squared error (Sx - Fx)^2
|Sx-Fx|^2 = |(S-F)x|^2
The error depends on x the signal. Here, I want to make the
*convenient* assumption that the spectrum of x is flat, since we want
some kind of generality and we want to minimize average error across
frequencies. This would make the problem equivalent to using just
*one* dirac-delta in place of x and we would get the problem to reduce
back to just the difference of the impulse responses
|sinc(t)-f(t)|^2
For a little while, I was going in circles on how to minimize operator
norms, but it's not quite the right problem for that and I'd probably
spend all day on it, that way :)
(I won't try to write it in a latex-like fashon, I would certainly get it
wrong - not because of latex syntax, I mean I would get it wrong even if I
tried to write it down manually)
I'm reluctant to try latex because it looks like too much work, but I
think lyx (a wysiwyg latex editor) is more my speed.
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Re: [PD] Combat aliasing!
The interpolation, since it cannot be an ideal interpolation, may introduce other noises or artifacts, not aliasing as far as I can see. There's two parts to it, aliasing (stopband) and non-flat frequency response (passband). Since interpolation of uniform samples is linear, what we see in interpolation is the introduction of other frequencies. The intermediate stage between sampling and playback is a dirac-delta comb which takes our original spectrum and copies it centered at n*fs for all n. It's an infinitely long spectrum. The interpolation is a linear convolution operator on the dirac-delta comb. The distortion we observe comes from non-flat frequency response in the passband (0 to Nyquist) and from the copied spectra above the Nyquist frequency. Now, we hardly realize its there, because we don't represent the intermediate stages. We only need to get the output at a series of discrete points, so we only need to evaluate the convolution at those discrete points. Chuck ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tabread4~ broken interpolation algorithm - was Re:, Max Smoother Audio than Pd?
Charles Henry escribió: The error depends on x the signal. Here, I want to make the *convenient* assumption that the spectrum of x is flat, since we want some kind of generality and we want to minimize average error across frequencies. This would make the problem equivalent to using just *one* dirac-delta in place of x and we would get the problem to reduce back to just the difference of the impulse responses |sinc(t)-f(t)|^2 Ah ok. This *convenient* assumption is equivalent to (or at least implies) assuming that the only sample that matters for interpolating the signal between -2 and 2 is the one semple at 0. This seems to me a too much strong assumption. I'm not saying that your conclusion is wrong (though I suspect it is). Let's take a step back: Here, I want to make the *convenient* assumption that the spectrum of x is flat Stated this way, it sounds reasonable, doesn't it. If it does, then it means that by flat spectrum you mean the _power spectrum_ of x considered as a _stochastic process_ rather than a deterministic signal. Brought to the domain of time, assuming x has a flat power spectrum means assuming x is white noise. (btw a closer-to-reality assumption would be that it is pink noise - but that's not the point here) Not a dirac delta. So minimizing the error would be to minimize the power, or probably energy, of the error meant as a stochastic process. Though I should have the notions to go a bit further in at least _formulating_ (not solving) the problem, those notions are a bit oxidated, if not completely gone from my head :( But I'm sure it is not equivalent to minimizing the integral of the difference between the operators applied to a delta function. -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com http://www.matteosistisette.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Combat aliasing!
Charles Henry escribió: The interpolation, since it cannot be an ideal interpolation, may introduce other noises or artifacts, not aliasing as far as I can see. There's two parts to it, aliasing (stopband) and non-flat frequency response (passband). Well this seems o be a matter of terminology. I think you call aliasing a wider class of artifacts than I was taught to call aliasing. -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com http://www.matteosistisette.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tabread4~ broken interpolation algorithm - was Re:, Max Smoother Audio than Pd?
I get what you're saying too, and I'm at least a little skeptical myself. But as I think about it generally, my entire approach to looking at these problems has been very similar. I basically thought that when comparing interpolators, I could disregard the signals involved and just look at the properties of the impulse responses (or convolution kernels or spectra, etc...). So, if I can't do that, I really have to rethink what I know. On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com wrote: Here, I want to make the *convenient* assumption that the spectrum of x is flat Stated this way, it sounds reasonable, doesn't it. If it does, then it means that by flat spectrum you mean the _power spectrum_ of x considered as a _stochastic process_ rather than a deterministic signal. When it comes to the general class of functions with flat spectra, the only difference is in phase, right? But the error is the same in time domain as in frequency domain thanks to the isometric property of the Fourier transform. Our interpolation is the same as a convolution, so we're still just multiplying our spectra and the phase comes out differently in each frequency. So, when we integrate the error^2 in the frequency domain, the phase makes no contribution, and then, it's really just the same thing as the error in the time domain. Then, all flat spectra are equivalent for this problem. I really am enjoying this math discussion, and I do want to be corrected or shown something I don't see yet. Please let me know if there's something wrong with what I'm saying. Brought to the domain of time, assuming x has a flat power spectrum means assuming x is white noise. (btw a closer-to-reality assumption would be that it is pink noise - but that's not the point here) Not a dirac delta. So minimizing the error would be to minimize the power, or probably energy, of the error meant as a stochastic process. Though I should have the notions to go a bit further in at least _formulating_ (not solving) the problem, those notions are a bit oxidated, if not completely gone from my head :( But I'm sure it is not equivalent to minimizing the integral of the difference between the operators applied to a delta function. -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com http://www.matteosistisette.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Combat aliasing!
Matteo Sisti Sette escribió: Charles Henry escribió: The interpolation, since it cannot be an ideal interpolation, may introduce other noises or artifacts, not aliasing as far as I can see. There's two parts to it, aliasing (stopband) and non-flat frequency response (passband). Well this seems o be a matter of terminology. I think you call aliasing a wider class of artifacts than I was taught to call aliasing. Oh no, maybe not. I read your explanation more carefully and of course, the non-perfectness of the interpolation process (i.e. its non-zero frequency response in the stop band) is responsible for the persistence of attenuated copies of the original spectrum at multiples of the original sampling rate, which then appear aliased into the passband when the signal is sampled again at a different rate. This is what's going on when discontinuities in the interpolated signal cause noise at high frequencies, isn't it? -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com http://www.matteosistisette.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] propertybang-help
--- On Thu, 4/1/10, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at wrote: From: IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] propertybang-help To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list PD-list@iem.at Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 4:52 PM On 2010-04-01 16:21, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: On 2010-03-31 19:49, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: propertybang-help.pd says that [propertybang] is per abstraction, but it's per abstraction _instance_, right? indeed. but hen: how would you right-click on an abstraction class (that is: not an instance?) That's currently the problem with your help patch. The behavior of the object is clear from the usage description, but then you decide to put per abstraction in all caps, which made me wonder whether you mean per abstraction instance-- the desired behavior-- or per abstraction class-- in which case I would take it to mean right-clicking one instance sends a bang to _all_ instances. Then you said at the bottom that you cannot have [propertybang]s per subpatch, which confirms the latter (see 2.7. subpatches), which would render the object useless and make me think it's just not finished yet. So I have to build my own abstraction and test the object to see whether the it does something useful, which defeats the whole purpose of having the help patch in the first place. Why not just add two instances of an abstraction to the example? Also you say: having multiple [propertybang]s within one abstraction, will trigger them all at the same time. What else would anyone expect? (And technically they are triggered in the order they were created, but I think it all goes without saying anyway.) Also- in canvasposition-help.pd you erroneously begin the patch with a [canvasindex] object. Also, it states that you can't have them per subpatch-- what exactly does this mean? i guess it means that you cannot put it into a subpatch and expect the subpatch to have properties. as a matter of fact this is wrong. you can put [propertybang] into your [pd] and be happy with it. i updated the help-patch. fgam,sdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [PD-announce] pd with a log
Owl Project: Build your own mLog weekend Wooden USB controller making- hooks up with pd- anyone interested? http://owlproject2.eventbrite.com/ ___ Pd-announce mailing list pd-annou...@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tabread4~ broken interpolation algorithm - was Re:, Max Smoother Audio than Pd?
Charles Henry escribió: When it comes to the general class of functions with flat spectra, the only difference is in phase, right? But the error is the same in time domain as in frequency domain thanks to the isometric property of the Fourier transform. Our interpolation is the same as a convolution, so we're still just multiplying our spectra and the phase comes out differently in each frequency. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here about the phase, buy I think the misleading part of youre reasoning is that you take a concept that makes sense in the context of stochastic processes, namely assuming a flat spectrum, and acritically apply it in the context of deterministic signals where it has a completely different meaning. You're trying to restrict the analysis to a convenient (but reasonable) class of signals, and to assume that the signal to be interpolated, x, belongs to that class. Right? It doesn't make any sense, as far as I can see, to assume that the signal being interpolated belongs to the class of function whose spectrum has a flat modulus (and any phase). Why not assuming then, for example, that x(t) is a constant? (please don't take my tone as sarchastic) What does make some sense (it is a strong hypothesis but discussing its plausibility would bring the discussion to a much higher level) is to treat the signal x as a stochastic process with a given power spectrum - such as flat, or pink. But that means that the quantity you're minimizing is no longer an integral of the signal minus some other signal all squared: it is the expectation of something. The power spectrum of a stochastic process x(t) is not the fourier transform of x(t), it is the fourier transform of tha autocorrelation function of x (or something like that). -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com http://www.matteosistisette.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Combat aliasing!
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com wrote: Matteo Sisti Sette escribió: Oh no, maybe not. I read your explanation more carefully and of course, the non-perfectness of the interpolation process (i.e. its non-zero frequency response in the stop band) is responsible for the persistence of attenuated copies of the original spectrum at multiples of the original sampling rate, which then appear aliased into the passband when the signal is sampled again at a different rate. This is what's going on when discontinuities in the interpolated signal cause noise at high frequencies, isn't it? Yes, that's my interpretation and explanation of it. It works out nice and linear in the spectral domain *if* we can make that intermediate step with the Dirac-delta comb which copies the spectrum. Then, *all* the deviations in the reconstructed signal come from the places where the spectrum does not match the ideal response. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] strange colors with pix_record
On 2010-04-01 18:27, Max wrote: Can someone confirm this (for other operating systems) so i can file a bug report on that? you can file a bug report even if it only happens on a single operating system. the recording code is highly platform specific (that is: the recording backends are platform specific), so it might well be that there is a bug on one system not showing up on others. fgmasdr IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [Gem] pix_film: no alpha channel in Mac
Hi, I tried to use [pix_film] with a video encoded with the Animation+ codec, with an alpha channel. I use [alpha] in the chain to turn on alpha blending. It works perfectly in Windows (Gem 0.92 using QuickTime to open the files), but in MacOS the alpha channel is completely ignored and the video is opaque. I use the very same files both in Windows and MacOS. Does it work better with some other codec? Or is there some trick to work it around? Note that alpha blending in general does work (for example the help patch for [alpha]) - it's just the alpha channel of the pix that doesn't work. Any idea? thanks m. -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com http://www.matteosistisette.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] propertybang-help
On 2010-04-01 18:11, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Why not just add two instances of an abstraction to the example? there should be an examples folder (i don't know whether you are using pd-extended and if so, whether the examples are included) Also you say: having multiple [propertybang]s within one abstraction, will trigger them all at the same time. What else would anyone expect? (And technically they are triggered in the order they were created, but I think it all goes without saying anyway.) sure; but who knows what people expect? anyhow, as said in my other mail, i have updated the help patch. Also- in canvasposition-help.pd you erroneously begin the patch with a [canvasindex] object. and i missed that one... fgmasdr IOhannes smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] propertybang-help
On 2010-04-01 18:11, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: That's currently the problem with your help patch. The behavior of the object is clear from the usage description, but then you decide to put per abstraction in all caps, which made me wonder whether you mean per abstraction instance-- the desired behavior-- or per abstraction class-- in which case I would take it to mean right-clicking one instance sends a bang to _all_ instances. Then you said at the bottom that you it does the desired behaviour. cannot have [propertybang]s per subpatch, which confirms the latter (see 2.7. subpatches), subpatch in the help patch means what is commonly called subpatch (aka [pd]) which is a one-off subpatch in the docs. which would render the object useless and make me think it's just not finished yet. So I have to build my own abstraction and test the object to see whether the it does something useful, which defeats the whole purpose of having the help patch in the first place. i cannot follow. i don't like help-patches that are not self-contained (at least for what they are trying to document); in older versions [propertybang] obviously did not work for one-off subpatches (hence the documentation about this), which made it a bit hard to show without abstractions. otoh, creating an abstraction yourself and test whether the object indeed does what _you_ want it do, is not so complicated. anyhow, thanks for the feedback. fgasdr IOhannes PS: and yes, iemguts is basically undocumented. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] strange colors with pix_record
Bug added: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailaid=2980652group_id=64325atid=507079 Am 01.04.2010 um 19:07 schrieb IOhannes m zmoelnig: On 2010-04-01 18:27, Max wrote: Can someone confirm this (for other operating systems) so i can file a bug report on that? you can file a bug report even if it only happens on a single operating system. the recording code is highly platform specific (that is: the recording backends are platform specific), so it might well be that there is a bug on one system not showing up on others. fgmasdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] propertybang-help
PS: is it just my broken thunderbird that fails to put your answers into the correct thread (or any thread at all) or is there a reason why alpine does not add any in-reply-to or references fields? It is because I set my subscription to nomail and whenever I want to reply to something, I just paste it from the Mailman/Pipermail archive. On 2010-04-01 16:26, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: On 2010-04-01 03:18, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: note also that merely loading [propertybang] is disabling the properties menu item on every GOP in its parent patch except the ones that use [propertybang]... fixed now (as far as i can) ah good, I should've reported that one before, then. note also that [propertybang] writes to a global variable in a way that no other external can compete with, apparently... that's the unfortunate way how Pd handles classes. i would love it, if each instance would actually have a copy of the class data, rather than all instances pointing to the same class data. Yes, me too, and it's the case for externals, just not abstractions, which are all sharing the same t_class as [pd] [page] and any other patch (canvas_class). But I think I recall that you had something more hookable with the savefn than with propertiesfn, meaning that it would play nice with other externals trying to do the same thing, provided that they played as nice. (think of two such externs being loaded in any order) I also recall that the old implementation of [propertybang] was a little easier to play with because then I could have a propertiesfn that did exactly the same as [propertybang] and then the load order wouldn't matter and I could have my own [propertybang]-like class which would get messages through the [send]/[receive] interface that is used by the old [propertybang]. However, when I coded my external while looking at the old [propertybang] code, I was already running the new [propertybang] code and that's where I found out about the new system that replaces [send]/[receive] in it. But then, I don't absolutely need to have my own [propertybang] class, it's just that I expected to do so, because I expected some of the users of my library to expect to not have to install anything else than pd-vanilla. Why is it called [propertybang] instead of [propertiesbang] ? _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] propertybang-help
--- On Thu, 4/1/10, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at wrote: From: IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] propertybang-help To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list PD-list@iem.at Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 7:31 PM On 2010-04-01 18:11, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: That's currently the problem with your help patch. The behavior of the object is clear from the usage description, but then you decide to put per abstraction in all caps, which made me wonder whether you mean per abstraction instance-- the desired behavior-- or per abstraction class-- in which case I would take it to mean right-clicking one instance sends a bang to _all_ instances. Then you said at the bottom that you it does the desired behaviour. cannot have [propertybang]s per subpatch, which confirms the latter (see 2.7. subpatches), subpatch in the help patch means what is commonly called subpatch (aka [pd]) which is a one-off subpatch in the docs. which would render the object useless and make me think it's just not finished yet. So I have to build my own abstraction and test the object to see whether the it does something useful, which defeats the whole purpose of having the help patch in the first place. i cannot follow. i don't like help-patches that are not self-contained (at least for what they are trying to document); in older versions [propertybang] obviously did not work for one-off subpatches (hence the documentation about this), which made it a bit hard to show without abstractions. otoh, creating an abstraction yourself and test whether the object indeed does what _you_ want it do, is not so complicated. The vast majority of help patches are self-contained (excluding for the moment those that have objects from other libraries which may or may not exist). For those few patches that warrant an abstraction in the example, it's easier (on the reader of the subpatch) to include an example abstraction than to describe what the behavior would be were an abstraction included (which may or may not be up to date). Right-clicking Properties on one [foo] object and noticing that a bang does not come out a different [foo] object takes a few seconds to comprehend, unlike your PER ABSTRACTION paragraph which takes a message to a mailing list and revisions to correct/clarify the meaning. Also, please note that I'm talking about about an example of the core behavior of [propertybang], not an example of how it might be useful in a real (albeit simplified) patch. Only the latter belong in the examples folder. I.e., 5.reference = what it does, examples = how it might be used. -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] propertybang-help
i don't like help-patches that are not self-contained (at least for what they are trying to document); well, for that, what I've done for [args], is this : args-help.pd is the main help file args-demo.pd is the abstraction made specially for the help file and I'd like to add something about [propertybang]... I don't expect [propertybang] to make sense at all on subpatches, and thus, I expect [propertybang] in a subpatch to be doing the same as it does in its parent patch. However, this is not what it does. Can you explain why you made it the way it is ? _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Combat aliasing!
On Thu, 1 Apr 2010, Matteo Sisti Sette wrote: and I forgot to say, if you use [vd~] to circumvent [delread~]'s delay limitation, you will also find that [vd~] is a lot slower (taking more cpu), and that's normal, because [vd~] does antialiasing, whereas [delread~] does not. I don't know who Karplus-Strong is, but from your dissertation I get the impression that what you call antialising here is what I would call interpolation ¿? Yes, that's a lot of the same thing. E.g. when scaling a picture, it is usually antialiased, and that is performed by some kind of interpolation, such as linear or cubic. But when rendering a polygon, the antialiasing of the lines doesn't have to do with interpolation of existing pixel data, because it's rendered directly from vertex data... but, in some way, polygon rendering is all about linear interpolation of vertex data, as each edge is made of points on a line between other points. This doesn't mean that the polygon will be «antialiased» in any way. Just to say that there are many things called interpolation and many things called antialiasing and that there's a lot of overlap of those things but they don't exactly coïncide. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] strange colors with pix_record
The Quicktime code being used in recent GEM builds is not the code I wrote, and does not work that well. Can you try pix_recordQT and see if that loads? On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Max abonneme...@revolwear.com wrote: Hi List, i wonder why i get these strange colors when using pix_record with GEM ver: 0.92.2 compiled: Jan 20 2010 on OS X 10.6.3 Any Ideas? this is grayscale in GEM but instead it is quite blue in the recorded quicktime. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] OS X 10.6: unplugging headphones crashes Pd
gmerlin should not be used on the Mac, so why is it even there? On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 8:41 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.atwrote: Hmm, I've seen this with libfaad.0.dylib too. The file is there, right? Can you include the whole error message? there should be a line above it. .hc On Apr 1, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Max wrote: that one can't load gem on my machine: Referenced from: /Applications/Pd-0.42.5-extended-20100401.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/../../lib/libgmerlin_avdec.1.dylib Reason: image not found Gem: can't load library m. Am 31.03.2010 um 17:44 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: Pd-0.42.5-extended-macosx104-i386.dmg31-Mar-2010 04:35 46M .hc On Mar 31, 2010, at 9:34 AM, Max wrote: do you mean Pd-0.42.5-extended-macosx105-i386.dmg20-Jan-2010 10:19 39M or Pd-0.42.5-extended-macosx104-i386.dmg31-Mar-2010 04:35 46M ? Am 30.03.2010 um 23:20 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: Try a nightly build of Pd-extended 0.42.5, I updated the portaudio code, which I think tries to address these issues. .hc On Mar 30, 2010, at 1:43 PM, Max wrote: i can _not_ reproduce that with *any* patch here. the sound is gone after unplugging headphones, but disabling it an re-enabeling it in the Pd window makes the Sound come back on the internal speakers. Not the desired way but no crash or freeze either. m. Am 30.03.2010 um 16:00 schrieb Derek Holzer: Well, in my workshop, *any* patch would do it no sense in posting one. D. On 3/30/10 3:34 PM, Max wrote: it's not fixed by the OS update. i only had this phenomenon if GEM was involved too and submitted that to the bugtracker a while ago http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=2929298group_id=55736atid=478070 if you can make a patch where GEM is not involved and it still crashes with Pd when the phone is unplugged then that would be good to post here. max Am 30.03.2010 um 02:36 schrieb Nils Sundtrom: I had garageband crash when I unplugged the headphones yesterday, I wonder if there update today fixed the issue. Nils On 10-03-27 11:00 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Yeah, I've seen some Leopard issues with audio too. I blame Apple ;). I think the issue is in portaudio, so hopefully that will get fixed, then I can update it in Pd-extended. Have anyone on 10.6 tried a recently 0.42.5 nightly? .hc On Mar 26, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Marco Donnarumma wrote: Had the same problem with my students. Jack seems to work well for most of them, but few still have random crash. M On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Derek Holzerde...@umatic.nl wrote: Sorry for the added noise, this meant for the Pd list, not Pd-announce... D. On 3/26/10 3:27 PM, Derek Holzer wrote: This is a new one to me, but four of my students can reproduce it every time with Mac OS 10.6, with or without JACK, using Pd-Extended 0.41.4. Unplugging or plugging the headphones while Pd is running freezes Pd completely, requiring a Force Quit. It does this regardless of whether audio processing is turned on or off. I tried looking at Aggregate Devices, however the built-in output already appears as one device. Anybody know how to fix this one? D. -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 161: Trust in the you of now ___ Pd-announce mailing list pd-annou...@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce -- Marco Donnarumma aka TheSAD Independent New Media Arts Professional, Performer, Teacher - Edinburgh, UK PORTFOLIO: http://marcodonnarumma.com LAB: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | http://www.flxer.net EVENT: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish.-William Carlos Williams ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 201: What were the branch points in the evolution of this entity? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http
[PD] pix_buffer question
I wanted to create a fixed size pix_buffer which is continually fed, so for example if I have an index from 0 to 1000 once it is filled the most recent image always has the index 1000 and the oldest 0 indexed image is discarded and replaced by the second oldest image ie image with index 1. Is there a simple way to do this or do I have to do a pix_buffer_read and pix_buffer_write on all 1000 images stored to re-index them each time a new image is stored in the buffer? Thanks . I am assuming this is more or less how pix_delay works. Thanks, Jim ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [PD-announce] GridFlow 9.8
Upcoming version numbers of GridFlow will drop the initial zero as it has become evident that the numbering couldn't possibly get past zero otherwise. GridFlow thus becomes one of the first things in the Pd world to ever go beyond version number 1.0. The next version number will thus be 9.8, and recent version numbers may retroactively be called without the leading zero, where it makes sense. As software improves, expectations improve such that the goal becomes ever farther. Version 1.0 is some point at the horizon, and we can never actually get to the horizon, so, we cannot possibly get to version 1.0. Therefore, major version numbers are useless. CQFD (QED). This is a great step towards staying in touch with the users, who have been heard comparing the pros and cons of GridFlow «9.6» vs «9.7» for a while, among comparisons of PureData «41» and «42», GEM «91» and «92», and so on. I would like to laud those users for their practical sense in numbering that software. Finally, I would like to wish everybody a good April's Fools. Hope you had fun with the fish. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-announce mailing list pd-annou...@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] GridFlow 9.8
Lol. Loved it. He he I was really believing ;). On 1 Apr 2010 22:36, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: Upcoming version numbers of GridFlow will drop the initial zero as it has become evident that the numbering couldn't possibly get past zero otherwise. GridFlow thus becomes one of the first things in the Pd world to ever go beyond version number 1.0. The next version number will thus be 9.8, and recent version numbers may retroactively be called without the leading zero, where it makes sense. As software improves, expectations improve such that the goal becomes ever farther. Version 1.0 is some point at the horizon, and we can never actually get to the horizon, so, we cannot possibly get to version 1.0. Therefore, major version numbers are useless. CQFD (QED). This is a great step towards staying in touch with the users, who have been heard comparing the pros and cons of GridFlow «9.6» vs «9.7» for a while, among comparisons of PureData «41» and «42», GEM «91» and «92», and so on. I would like to laud those users for their practical sense in numbering that software. Finally, I would like to wish everybody a good April's Fools. Hope you had fun with the fish. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801 ___ Pd-announce mailing list pd-annou...@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [PD-announce] GridFlow 9.8
Ricardo Lameiro a écrit : Lol. Loved it. He he I was really believing ;). And why wouldn't you believe it now ? :) _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [PD-announce] new release of GridFlow available now !
| | .-o-o-, | http://gridflow.ca/download/gridflow-9.8.tar.gz | `-o---' | ChangeLog for version 9.8 (2010.04.01): * fixed GCC = 4.4.3 related problem (?) with c++ templates... * fixed [gf/mouse_spy] crash (also related to [#see]) * small fixes to colouring of [display] and [#see] * added [gf/selector] [gf/getcwd] [gf/find_file] [gf/canvas_index] * OSX: print real error messages instead of error #-43, etc. * OSX: [#io.quartz] reports position * [#in]: lookup file in -path and the dir of the patch containing [#in] * removed annoying posts/errors when loading helpfiles * [#print]: fix bug with negative numbers in base 8 and 16 * [# **]: fixed crash with negative numbers * [#out x11]: hide close-button * [#out x11]: add border $1 method for hiding window-border (for fullscreen) * major update to cellular_1d.pd, instant_blur.pd, markov.pd, ... * reviewed and updated a lot of examples. * added examples : rgb_delay.pd dither.pd * [#]: added back an important optimisation to save on RAM * [#fold] [#scan]: allow op avg, op hypot * [#fold] [#scan]: better check for unallowed ops * merged binary_operations.pd + videodev_effects.pd - various_effects.pd * [#in] [#out] output not_open in outlet 1, to answer a message in closed mode * [#in] load has a $2 as a shortcut for open $1, cast $2, bang, close * [#in videodev] (linux cameras): trying to add YUYV support (palette 8) (please test) * [#out x11] [#out quartz] [#out sdl] [#see] accept greyscale * [gf/canvas_loadbang]: fixed bug * added most missing helpfiles, missing parts of helpfiles, corrected typos, etc. * added missing entries in index.pd (GridFlow Index) * [#in videodev]: some error messages have been condensed * [#in videodev]: YUV cameras speedup (faster clip function) * [#camera]: use not_open to correctly show that no camera currently is selected. * [#see]: can drag to a point outside of the window * [#see]: fixed a bug when closing a gop containing a [#see]. * [#see]: added margins $1 $2 $3 $4 method * changed version numbering scheme, if there was ever any such thing * linux [#in quicktime] renamed to [#in quicktimehw] * osx [#in quicktime] renamed to [#in quicktimeapple] * [#in] and [#out]: added 'quicktime' alias for either of the above two _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-announce mailing list pd-annou...@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] pix_buffer question
Jim Ruxton a écrit : I wanted to create a fixed size pix_buffer which is continually fed, so for example if I have an index from 0 to 1000 once it is filled the most recent image always has the index 1000 and the oldest 0 indexed image is discarded and replaced by the second oldest image ie image with index 1. Is there a simple way to do this or do I have to do a pix_buffer_read and pix_buffer_write on all 1000 images stored to re-index them each time a new image is stored in the buffer? Thanks . I am assuming this is more or less how pix_delay works. instead of that, once it goes beyond 1000, start over at 0. then whenever you want to have a certain previous image, such as 666 frames ago, instead of saying that you want frame 1000-666=334, say you want frame N-666 mod 1001, that is, current frame number | [- 666] | [mod 1001] | ... i say 1001 just because you say that the first index is 0 and the last index is 1000, which means 1001 different indices, not 1000. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] GEM: Two particle systems in one patch interfering
Hi, I have a problem with two particle systems in my patch. If in one of them I change gravity, source and killold properties, it affects the second one somehow. But they are separate gemlists and are not connected in any way. How can I fix that? Thanks, Joh ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] strange colors with pix_record
Johannes a écrit : you can file a bug report even if it only happens on a single operating system. I think Max implied that he wanted to submit a report as complete as possible up front. the recording code is highly platform specific (that is: the recording backends are platform specific), so it might well be that there is a bug on one system not showing up on others. Yes, therefore it would also be a good idea to have a screenshot, especially one containing a correct picture and the equivalent broken picture side to side. That way, for example, someone who doesn't have the OS required to run the bug, can still fix the bug by just looking at the screenshot. But this requires an example with enough different colours... just grey is not enough. For example, this picture : http://webilus.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/216couleurs_du_web.jpg has more colours than one would ever need, to identify the problem, so, it's perfect for that. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pix_buffer question
Hi Mathieu, Thanks a lot. A great solution!! It works perfectly. Cheers, Jim On Thu, 2010-04-01 at 21:07 -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: Jim Ruxton a écrit : I wanted to create a fixed size pix_buffer which is continually fed, so for example if I have an index from 0 to 1000 once it is filled the most recent image always has the index 1000 and the oldest 0 indexed image is discarded and replaced by the second oldest image ie image with index 1. Is there a simple way to do this or do I have to do a pix_buffer_read and pix_buffer_write on all 1000 images stored to re-index them each time a new image is stored in the buffer? Thanks . I am assuming this is more or less how pix_delay works. instead of that, once it goes beyond 1000, start over at 0. then whenever you want to have a certain previous image, such as 666 frames ago, instead of saying that you want frame 1000-666=334, say you want frame N-666 mod 1001, that is, current frame number | [- 666] | [mod 1001] | ... i say 1001 just because you say that the first index is 0 and the last index is 1000, which means 1001 different indices, not 1000. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801 ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [buzz~] -- bandlimited pulse train
I screwed up one of the comments -- the patch is right though; here's a replacement that fixes the formula (I think). MB On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Matt Barber brbrof...@gmail.com wrote: Since we've been talking about bandlimited signals, attached is an approach to an abstraction which can be used like the csound opcode buzz -- I just threw it together today and would of course welcome any improvements. Matt buzz~.pd Description: Binary data ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
