[PD] FW: PD OOP?
From: jbtur...@hotmail.com To: ma...@artengine.ca Subject: RE: [PD] PD OOP? Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 23:24:46 + I'm considering, next time I get time to really focus on some PD, writing some kind of abstraction for [shell] and irb. Although I realize this might be really clunky to operate. The main problem I've got with that is, probably, the syntax for the arguments, to be honest, if I could write my ruby in ticks and then run something like [l2s] on that part I'd be well on the way to a real-time ruby object. Probs something like: [irb 100 2 '$1 * 2' ] arguments like$1 polling rate (feeding a metro)$2 creation argument$3 (inside ticks) ruby line(s) ($x could represent inlets, going to pack, then the ruby statement in a message, gaps filled from the inlets and going to shell (on irb)) Could probably be done, but as I say, would take a bit of time to get that really usable. I'm not sure, but the best way might be to just have one shell open and the irb abstraction generating sends to this. 'course routing any returns might be difficult. But this way there would be one set of ruby variables. Anyone know how I can make a list one of the arguments for an abstraction? Andrew Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 12:31:35 -0500 From: ma...@artengine.ca To: jbtur...@hotmail.com CC: lsut...@libero.it; pd-list@iem.at Subject: RE: [PD] PD OOP? On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, Andrew Faraday wrote: * Perhaps it's not really OOP, Ruby is definitely OOP, but what you want is not OOP, it's Ruby itself. * It looks like there's a lot of debate going around, it was, largely a passing notion that started it. However I realize PD can do (probably) anything I would be likely to do with it using this embedded OOP (sorry if that is the wrong definition), it really was just Hmmm, I wonder if ruby lines could be used in-line in Pd Pd has already much support for what is called OOP, but what you want is the written syntax of Ruby, which is also OOP (and somewhat more so), but most of all, what distinguishes Ruby's syntax is that it's very concise for a lot of jobs. Ruby's syntax is most characteristically the result of designers optimising for conciseness. (Contrast this with Java, designed for people who have the impression that more verbosity means more solidness and/or more understandability) Ruby also has a damn lot of good libraries, just like Python and Perl do. Once again, amazed by the response. Perhaps someone will make this happen at some point. Perhaps I should, although I'll probably have to learn some C first. I recommend not using libruby, because if you can make libruby not crash as a pd module, you're some kind of genius. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PD OOP?
I understand the haiku analogy is about code being short, eloquent and saying what needs to be said in relatively few words. To be honest, programming is much like actual language in that it relies on layers and layers of abstraction before it can actually be deciphered. If you consider a simple word like 'walk', this represents a number of actions, putting one foot in front of the other, responding to obstacles you come in to and the rather complex process of standing upright. You can attach other words to it and say things like 'walk quickly north' these are arguments, and again, require an understanding of other things before you can interpret them as an instruction. This is largely the case with PD libraries (and other libraries, for that matter). Even the basic package is very far removed from the binary your computer actually 'understands'. It goes through the process of interpreting a text file for you to see the patch, returning that to a text file, moving through the code that represents pd, operating system etc. until it's just binary. So you're using a heck of a lot of other people's work using pd vanilla. do you understand how your OS works? Would you rather have one you can build yourself? You'd know how it works, then. Also if we're talking programming philosophy, I may as well write a 'programming haiku' Walk towards the seaStop walking when you get thereIt's too cold for that Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 23:01:41 -0500 From: ma...@artengine.ca To: ch...@mccormick.cx CC: pd-list@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] PD OOP? On Sat, 18 Dec 2010, Chris McCormick wrote: On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 12:10:24PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: expressing yourself at an appropriate level of understanding, but The appropriate level of understanding is the level at which people hear the noise and want to party. Is there any more important level? Of course not. I'm talking about the manner of patching for making the noises the way you want and keep it manageable, etc. I don't know of a good way to quantify how much are you compensating? I don't know either... As for learn kludgy workarounds, I probably do that less in reality than I seem to do in your imagination. I don't know. This might sound terribly lazy and self serving to you, Oh, being lazy and self serving is not necessarily a bad thing ! It's like writing a haiku. Haikus don't get any work done. Haha! Wow. The statement is technically correct. ;) (And I'm not even convinced that they _say_ anything either !) Maybe the problem isn't with the haikus. Maybe it's not a problem. (I didn't say it is.) And if you cared about getting patches to remain as small as they can be, you'd care a lot more about externals than you do. At which point did I say I cared about getting patches to remain as small as they can be? It's the it's like writing a haiku analogy that confused me. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based on 0.42.x branch)
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Wed, 12/15/10, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: It seems that Pd on Windows takes several times more time instantiating abstractions than on Linux and OSX, especially with a full-blown path of 40 folders or so. This could be mostly fixed if Claude's abstraction-cache had been included in Pd, which can dramatically speed up abstraction-loading on all platforms, but probably especially on Windows (but I didn't check). Is this patch on the tracker? I can't find it. I don't know, I don't look there. Ask Claude. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] mix_movement and pix_mean_color
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, Jack wrote: Le mardi 14 décembre 2010 à 18:18 -0500, Mathieu Bouchard a écrit : [alpha] in itself doesn't modify a pix, it only activates the use of the alpha channel in a tex, No, it activate alpha blending in the fragment processor, so on a geo after resterization or/and a texture apply on this rasterized geo. ah... désolé, tu as raison. and so, it's only relevant after using [pix_texture], Or without [pix_texture] (just a geo). idem ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available
20101217 snapshot fixes: *implemented Jonathan Wilkes' patch for select object that allows mixed arguments (symbols and floats) *further fixes to the build script *nlet highlighting should not be brought to front as that causes weird graphical glitches with to front/back tool http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56 ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available
On Dec 17, 2010, at 9:35 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I believe he means I split out each objectclass into its own file, like Java does. That allows us to use namespaces prefixes like zexy/symbol2list. There are other ways to introduce namespace prefixes. It can be done rather easily, in much less work than it takes to handle all the explosions of libraries, the hexloader, the symlinks and all the other consequences of dropping the bomb. Patches welcome! .hc We have nothing to fear from love and commitment. - New York Senator Diane Savino, trying to convince the NY Senate to pass a gay marriage bill ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Ubumenu?
Hello list, I wondered if there was any object as umenu or ubumenu , i know, I can make lists but would like something faster ... Greetings!! José (the snorer) -- http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://comunicacionnativa.blogspot.com/ http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Ubumenu?
If you want a popup menu, you probably want [popup]. .hc On Dec 18, 2010, at 11:45 AM, Jose Luis Santorcuato wrote: Hello list, I wondered if there was any object as umenu or ubumenu , i know, I can make lists but would like something faster ... Greetings!! José (the snorer) -- http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://comunicacionnativa.blogspot.com/ http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Ubumenu?
Thanks Hans...ill try... José 2010/12/18 Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at: If you want a popup menu, you probably want [popup]. .hc On Dec 18, 2010, at 11:45 AM, Jose Luis Santorcuato wrote: Hello list, I wondered if there was any object as umenu or ubumenu , i know, I can make lists but would like something faster ... Greetings!! José (the snorer) -- http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://comunicacionnativa.blogspot.com/ http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith -- http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://comunicacionnativa.blogspot.com/ http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Ubumenu?
Hi Hans, thanks a lot, solved... Works fine! José 2010/12/18 Jose Luis Santorcuato santorcuat...@gmail.com: Thanks Hans...ill try... José 2010/12/18 Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at: If you want a popup menu, you probably want [popup]. .hc On Dec 18, 2010, at 11:45 AM, Jose Luis Santorcuato wrote: Hello list, I wondered if there was any object as umenu or ubumenu , i know, I can make lists but would like something faster ... Greetings!! José (the snorer) -- http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://comunicacionnativa.blogspot.com/ http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith -- http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://comunicacionnativa.blogspot.com/ http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato -- http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://comunicacionnativa.blogspot.com/ http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Ubumenu?
...or [widget popup SomeName] from toxy - my preference because the font and the box size can be set very neatly (see the help browser: Pure Data/examples/toxy/popup-test.pd) Andras On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 8:47 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.atwrote: If you want a popup menu, you probably want [popup]. .hc On Dec 18, 2010, at 11:45 AM, Jose Luis Santorcuato wrote: Hello list, I wondered if there was any object as umenu or ubumenu , i know, I can make lists but would like something faster ... Greetings!! José (the snorer) -- http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://comunicacionnativa.blogspot.com/ http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Muranyi Andras ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Ubumenu?
On Sat, 2010-12-18 at 11:47 -0800, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: If you want a popup menu, you probably want [popup]. .hc Except with the omission of the flatspace from the latest svn, you can't (instead the popup invoked is an abstraction from iemlib which BTW is missing pop and thus does not work in and of itself). That said popup is very buggy to begin with (e.g. you cannot move it once it is created, its preferred color does not appear until it has had at least one mouseover followed by a mouse-off, etc.), hence I would hardly recommend it. Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Ubumenu?
Speaking of which, where does the release tree live in terms of SVN checkout? Also, any idea why iemlib/popup.pd is not working? Is this a defunct object? It is looking for a pop object and that is nowhere to be found as a source/binary/abstraction. Ico I just updated this, hopefully its clear: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingPdSource .hc OK, thanks. Now, what about the iemlib/popup problem? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Ubumenu?
=) Thanks friends Best regards from Chile José 2010/12/18 Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu: Speaking of which, where does the release tree live in terms of SVN checkout? Also, any idea why iemlib/popup.pd is not working? Is this a defunct object? It is looking for a pop object and that is nowhere to be found as a source/binary/abstraction. Ico I just updated this, hopefully its clear: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingPdSource .hc OK, thanks. Now, what about the iemlib/popup problem? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://comunicacionnativa.blogspot.com/ http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] L2Ork Pd update now available
On Sat, 18 Dec 2010, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Dec 17, 2010, at 9:35 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: There are other ways to introduce namespace prefixes. It can be done rather easily, in much less work than it takes to handle all the explosions of libraries, the hexloader, the symlinks and all the other consequences of dropping the bomb. Patches welcome! Specs welcome!! ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] libraries in Pd-extended 0.43
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Yeah, so currently I have links inside canvas-help.pd to table-help.pd, pd-help.pd, graph-help.pd, and a special note about Put menu arrays with a link to array-help.pd. array-help.pd is necessary to have there because triggering the help patch for the Put menu array is so obscure (I wonder if anyone here even knows what to click to get it.) I don't know how you can possibly not get it. Do you expect that you can get it by right-clicking the array's label ? Because, it doesn't work for any other label (IEMGUI...), so, why would it work for Array's label ? That's true, but just because it's possible to do that doesn't mean that [inlet] and [outlet] are relevant enough to show in the help patch for [table], any more than showing [list] in the help patch for [metro]. Also, it doesn't work the other way around-- [tabread], [tabwrite], etc. are not relevant to [pd]. Actually, when you have a [table], you don't have one object, you have two of them. When you have [table foo], receive-symbol pd-foo sends to a canvas, whereas receive-symbol foo sends to the internal t_array object, which has all of the array-specific methods. This has to be made clear, because it's not like an inheritance-like pattern. An inheritance-like pattern (or interface pattern) would be, for example, to have one single help-patch for most of the common methods in iemguis, those that have exactly the same behaviour, to emphasise that they are one single family (even though inheritance in pd is mostly in our imagination). It's a matter of documenting things in a non-repetitive, synthetic manner, and with a mindset that encourages consistency. When you have one class that seemingly would include one complete other helpfile's content but not the other way around, that would usually be an inheritance pattern, but it's not here, because instead, it's mostly that a canvas has a t_array tacked onto it, vs not. It can't be called delegation pattern either, because in a delegation pattern, you have two objects, of which you only send to one, which will forward the message to the other one whenever appropriate. This is not the case here, because you can send to two different receive-symbols, and you have to send to the correct one. I could have said a lot less, but I just thought I'd give you some more doc ideas. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Ubumenu?
On Sat, 2010-12-18 at 17:32 -0500, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: any idea why iemlib/popup.pd is not working? Is this a defunct object? It is looking for a pop object and that is nowhere to be found as a source/binary/abstraction. Please allow me to redirect the same question to the rest of the community, particularly iemlib maintainers. Any ideas? Is this simply a defunct abstraction? Ico ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Web browser?
Hi List, me again!, hahaha, I write query by some message or object that allows me to go to a website without having to leave pd, just bang and open the browser or a popup in pd ... maybe Yves library?, any alternative? Best regards José -- http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://comunicacionnativa.blogspot.com/ http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] editmode_look-plugin error
I just checked in a hopefully fixed version in to pure-data SVN. .hc On Dec 17, 2010, at 4:45 AM, ALAN BROOKER wrote: Hi The gui plugin editmode_look-plugin. is very nice but when ever I try to add an array, click on an object to change the properties or go into preferences to change the start up path, a diolog box pops up with the following error: invalid command name .gfxstub82dfac0.c invalid command name .gfxstub82dfac0.c while executing $tkcanvas configure -background white (procedure set_cords_by_editmode line 17) invoked from within set_cords_by_editmode .gfxstub82dfac0 (command bound to event) Has anyone else had this error or is it my set up? Thanks for any info ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
