Re: [PD] Editing CSS style, make pd.info better? [WAS: puredata.info site design provocation]
Hello marco and all, maybe that discussion should go on the pdweb list, no ? otherwise i don't know what it is made for... comments in the mail Le 11/03/12 00:53, András Murányi a écrit : On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 15:07, Marco Donnarumma de...@thesaddj.com mailto:de...@thesaddj.com wrote: Hello folks, I've been playing around with the CSS styles again. This time I implemented a similar style of the exhibition page to the homepage at puredata.info http://puredata.info. I also decreased the global page width, and set it and its position in percentage, which makes it fluid across different browsers and platforms. Increased the font-size too. I don't really like how Plone displays News and Recent Changes (table, odd and even). But this is something we could take care later on (if other ppl is bothered as me). NOTE: I think better and bigger images would greatly enhance the look of the page. See the attached screenshot. First is the style of the other time, the second is a similar style but without dotted background. I rather the dotted one. This time I copied all the modification in css sheet, __which means that if ppl likes this stuff, I can change the real CSS and put it on-line__ I could do that between today and tomorrow. let me know your thoughts, and if you have suggestion for the style. Didn't add the much requested Download button because it has to be done outside of the CSS. cheers, Marco Bravo Marco, a great improvement over the current state! Great dots :) Some minor comments/ideas: - could you post a screenshot of the footer? is it possible as well to see a screenshot of some wiki page? or better to post the css code here as we can apply it locally and browse everywhere. - what do you think about making News and Recent Changes more similar to the menu by adding an internal padding to the whole containing element, and at the same time, decreasing the padding/margin of the individual items? A few humble ideas about the main page: - the link to the Belorussian translation looks a bit orphaned, but I don't know where else it could go i agree, maybe it should move in the documentation section. - seeing the same old screenshots on the opening page is a waste of prime time space IMHO, because once you took a look at them you won't use that part of the website anymore - what do you people think about moving the current content of the main page to a menu item like What is Pd? and filling the page with more dynamic content? eventually, to fill with leads of News and Recent Changes items, which could even eliminate the need of those blocks (News is already on main page only, Recent Changes appear on some sub pages but not on each). That is a very good point ( even if it's not css...), there is no point of having these blocks on every page. We can imagine a news listing and a recent changes listing inside the div content, and make a about pd section. ( like http://www.blender.org/ ) - if the main page ever gets populated with News et al, it would be nice to have a cover picture however. Eventually rotating cover pictures, possibly linked. Maybe a crazy idea, but wouldn't it make sense to have a carousel-like thing showing up items from the Exhibition on the main page? this is very easy with vimeo, but the problem of the vimeo video group is that it is not based on the same curation limit as for the exhibition section, people can add their own videos. - all i currently see when clicking Community is check out DevelopmentWiki. Is this a temporary or very necessary state here? when you click development you mean? This can be normally easily changed but if Iohannes has done that there must be a reason. other comments: - I think it should be nice to have a large picture header, maybe something like max has done for vimeo: https://vimeo.com/groups/puredata it will keep together the whole page. - I find the main content div not large enough - i find the navigation menu too padded, specially on the left tanks for your work, best, n -- http://nim.on.free.fr ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tunetof scl2pd.py
No errors with sending the command to shell. I did get some errors though with a few runs of it in a terminal here is an example. ValueError: could not convert string to float: bj@bj-HP-Pavilion-dv5- Notebook-PC:~/Desktop/tunetof$ python scl2pd.py stiltnerphihr16.scl Traceback (most recent call last): File scl2pd.py, line 69, in module tab = convert_scala(file) File scl2pd.py, line 58, in convert_scala tab.append(ratio2float(l)) File scl2pd.py, line 21, in ratio2float return float(r[0]) / float(r[1]) ValueError: could not convert string to float: also in tunetof.pd there was an error with nonoctave tunings here is a correction #N canvas 478 73 737 667 10; #X obj 526 362 table \$0-tuning; #X obj 102 214 t a a; #X obj 102 172 inlet; #X obj 102 551 outlet; #X obj 102 504 * 1; #X obj 261 136 inlet; #X obj 526 333 s \$0-tuning; #X obj 447 155 inlet; #X obj 102 403 tabread \$0-tuning; #X obj 447 194 route symbol; #X msg 556 306 const 0; #X msg 447 237 read \$1; #X obj 319 182 inlet; #X obj 526 274 list prepend 0; #X obj 526 228 t a b; #X text 293 162 notes per octave; #X text 234 116 base frequency; #X obj 238 463 * \$1; #X obj 281 373 div \$2; #X obj 102 379 mod \$2; #N canvas 0 0 450 300 length 0; #X obj 126 70 inlet; #X obj 161 209 + 1; #X obj 72 183 b; #X obj 116 249 f; #X obj 116 276 outlet; #X obj 148 183 1; #X obj 132 211 f 1; #X obj 206 213 0; #X obj 126 104 t a b b; #X text 37 37 list-len: calculate length of a list.; #N canvas 0 0 533 407 drip 0; #X obj 64 206 list split 1; #X obj 64 123 until; #X obj 64 181 list append; #X obj 194 206 bang; #X text 146 90 First store list \, then start the loop; #X text 163 118 until bangs its output until told to stop by a bang to its right inlet.; #X text 182 160 Store the remaining list.; #X text 239 205 third outlet of split tells us to stop.; #X obj 64 243 outlet; #X obj 64 57 inlet; #X text 237 44 From list-help.pd; #X obj 143 243 outlet; #X obj 64 86 t b a; #X connect 0 0 8 0; #X connect 0 1 2 1; #X connect 0 2 3 0; #X connect 0 2 11 0; #X connect 1 0 2 0; #X connect 2 0 0 0; #X connect 3 0 1 1; #X connect 9 0 12 0; #X connect 12 0 1 0; #X connect 12 1 2 1; #X restore 72 152 pd drip; #X connect 0 0 8 0; #X connect 1 0 6 1; #X connect 2 0 6 0; #X connect 3 0 4 0; #X connect 5 0 6 1; #X connect 6 0 1 0; #X connect 6 0 3 1; #X connect 7 0 3 1; #X connect 8 0 10 0; #X connect 8 1 5 0; #X connect 8 2 7 0; #X connect 10 0 2 0; #X connect 10 1 3 0; #X restore 414 302 pd length; #X obj 414 324 - 1; #X obj 521 510 symbol \$3; #X obj 521 488 loadbang; #X obj 521 539 select 0; #X msg 572 567 read \$1; #X obj 572 591 s \$0-tuning; #X text 37 18 Arguments (all are optional):; #X text 112 43 1) base frequency; #X text 113 62 2) notes in octave; #X text 112 81 3) filename of tuning table; #X text 410 130 filename or float list to set tuning table; #X text 482 464 Init tuning table from file \$3; #X floatatom 414 343 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X floatatom 281 430 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X floatatom 238 482 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X floatatom 325 382 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X floatatom 105 423 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X floatatom 107 526 7 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 398 459; #X obj 414 361 tabread \$0-tuning; #X obj 281 408 expr pow($f2 \, $f1); #X connect 1 0 19 0; #X connect 1 1 18 0; #X connect 2 0 1 0; #X connect 4 0 3 0; #X connect 4 0 38 0; #X connect 5 0 17 1; #X connect 7 0 9 0; #X connect 8 0 4 0; #X connect 8 0 37 0; #X connect 9 0 11 0; #X connect 9 1 14 0; #X connect 10 0 6 0; #X connect 11 0 6 0; #X connect 12 0 18 1; #X connect 12 0 19 1; #X connect 13 0 6 0; #X connect 14 0 13 0; #X connect 14 0 20 0; #X connect 14 1 10 0; #X connect 17 0 4 1; #X connect 17 0 35 0; #X connect 18 0 36 0; #X connect 18 0 41 0; #X connect 19 0 8 0; #X connect 20 0 21 0; #X connect 21 0 18 1; #X connect 21 0 19 1; #X connect 21 0 33 0; #X connect 22 0 24 0; #X connect 23 0 22 0; #X connect 24 1 25 0; #X connect 25 0 26 0; #X connect 33 0 40 0; #X connect 40 0 41 1; #X connect 41 0 17 0; #X connect 41 0 34 0; ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] list etiquette
fuck no! Pd expands boundaries of what is music and art. Why expect any boundaries on the list? The same norm you're expecting might not be shared by other people who use the list too. Just wish to clarify what I think is being discussed here which is not necessary the language but how the language is used to against others in an abusive way. For instance Mr.Y makes an announcement and the first reply from Mr. X is fuck off. Or Mrs. V posts something to the list where the subject singles out another subscriber in a disparaging way and has nothing to do with Pd at all. This isn't heated debate. The norms I am expecting are the basics of just being civil, to act in the ways described above in person would be anti-social behaviour . I don't care for some things said on the list, but all you can really do is try to convince other people to see things your way. yes, your right here, that is all that can be done. Free thought and expression on the list takes president , but when someone is singled out unfairly or having abuse thrown at them it is something I feel the need to complain about. ..or maybe I'm just troll fodder :/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Editing CSS style, make pd.info better? [WAS: puredata.info site design provocation]
is it possible as well to see a screenshot of some wiki page? or better
to post the css code here as we can apply it locally and browse everywhere.
attached.
But it includes only the classes I modified, i.e. it's not the full css
style.
and it might not be hyperprecise.
- the link to the Belorussian translation looks a bit orphaned, but I
don't know where else it could go
i agree, maybe it should move in the documentation section.
yep, let's do that.
[snip] blocks (News is already on main page only, Recent Changes appear
on
some sub pages but not on each).
That is a very good point ( even if it's not css...), there is no point
of having these blocks on every page. We can imagine a news listing and
a recent changes listing inside the div content, and make a about pd
section. ( like http://www.blender.org/ )
definitely.
- if the main page ever gets populated with News et al, it would be
nice to have a cover picture however. Eventually rotating cover
pictures, possibly linked. Maybe a crazy idea, but wouldn't it make
sense to have a carousel-like thing showing up items from the
Exhibition on the main page?
this is very easy with vimeo, but the problem of the vimeo video group
is that it is not based on the same curation limit as for the exhibition
section, people can add their own videos.
agree, see my previous message. I think it's ok to have the vimeo channel
and the exhibition page.
Anyway, almost nobody post things to the exhibition page, so we should find
a way to make it more interesting to post there.
- all i currently see when clicking Community is check out
DevelopmentWiki. Is this a temporary or very necessary state here?
when you click development you mean? This can be normally easily
changed but if Iohannes has done that there must be a reason.
other comments:
- I think it should be nice to have a large picture header, maybe
something like max has done for vimeo:
https://vimeo.com/groups/puredata
it will keep together the whole page.
sure, but cannot do it from the css.
So I'm waiting to get the css done first.
- I find the main content div not large enough
Ok, I tried to find a balance, actually I'm afraid this is already to wide
for a mobile browser.
Can someone apply the css class of the body and see what happens on a
mobile?
- i find the navigation menu too padded, specially on the left
Can do less padding,
I just like wide spacey things... :)
what other ppl think?
tanks for your work,
we all really deserve a better looking portal.
--
Marco Donnarumma
New Media + Sonic Arts Practitioner, Performer, Teacher, Director.
ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing)
The University of Edinburgh, UK
~
Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com
Research: http://res.marcodonnarumma.com | http://www.thesaddj.com |
http://www.flxer.net
Director: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net
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BLUE LINKS #1087B0 */
/* BODY */
body {
font: 76% Lucida Grande, Verdana, Lucida, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;
background: white url(http://www.ubuntu.com/sites/all/themes/ubuntu10/images/bg_dotted.png) repeat top center;
color: #22;
margin: 0;
padding: 0;}
#visual-portal-wrapper {
margin: 0 auto;
padding: 0;
width: 70%;}
/* TYPOGRAPHY */
p {
margin: 0 0 0.75em 0;
line-height: 1.8em;
text-align: justify;}
h1 {
font-size: 185%;}
h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
color: black;
background-color: transparent;
font-family: Lucida Grande, Verdana, Lucida, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;
font-weight: normal;
margin: 0 0 0.25em 0;}
a {
color: #1087B0;
background-color: transparent;}
/* LOGO */
#portal-logo {
background: url(http://puredata.info/logo.png) no-repeat;
border: 0;
margin: 0.75em 28em 0.75em 1.2em;
padding: 0;}
/* TOP NAVIGATION */
#portal-globalnav {
background-color: transparent;
padding: 0em 0em 0em 2em;
white-space: nowrap;
list-style: none;
margin: 0;
height: auto;
line-height: normal;
visibility: hidden}
/* Log in and Join */
#portal-personaltools {
line-height: 1.6em;
color: black;
padding: 0em 3em 0em 3em;
margin: 0;
text-align: right;
text-transform: capitalize;
list-style: none;
font-size: 1.3em;}
/* Breadcrumbs */
#portal-breadcrumbs {
padding-left: 2em;
padding-right: 2em;
text-transform: lowercase;
line-height: 1.6em;
margin-left: 16.4em;
/* SIDE NAVIGATION */
dd.portletItem a:visited, dd.portletFooter a:visited {
color: #333;}
#portal-column-one .visualPadding {
padding: 1em 0em 1em 2em;}
.portletHeader {
text-transform: capitalize;
font-weight: normal;
line-height: 0em;
font-size: 1.2em;
background-color: black;
padding: 14px 0px 16px 12px;}
.portletHeader a {
color: white;}
dl.portlet {
margin: 1px 0 4em 0;
background-color: white;}
.portletItem {
margin: 0;
padding: 1em;}
.portletNavigationTree {
margin: 0 0 0 0.75em;
padding: 0;
list-style: none;
list-style-image: none;
line-height: 1em;
font-size: 1.15em;
text-transform: capitalize;}
.navTreeItem a,
Re: [PD] Is there a way to block/filter Mathieu ?
mahat...@gmail.com, this is your second post to the list, and you're already complaining about a member who has been here practically from its inception? pull your head in, mate. wouv, I was not aware of the strong hierarchy within this community. So, you imply that the wanna-be gurus on the top has right to piss off everyone and the incompetent members should obey/be quiet? I would like to have the option of not seeing his comments in the cost of missing the completeness of the threads. Anyway it looks impossible for now. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Am I in time to propose the Xth Sense lib to be included in Pd-ext?
This might seem annoying, but I have found it makes it much easier for people to install things: the meta file xthsense-meta.pd, the download page title Xth-Sense-library, the library name Xth-Sense-lib, and the folder from the download folder marcodsad-Xth-Sense-lib-5299660 are all different names. No, it's not annoying at all, it is actually a good point. I renamed everything related to the XS lib as xth-sense-lib. I'd rather the dashes instead of one word as there are other two projects out there called xsens and xsense. On top of that, there is also the software which, guess what?, is called Xth Sense. Anyway, I renamed the Pd portal page, the github repo and the *meta.pd too. Added also a new tag for the current snapshot. - create a folder in your git called xthsense - move all of the objects into that folder - add a README.txt telling people to drop the xthsense folder into the standard user folder: http://puredata.info/docs/faq/how-do-i-install-externals-and-help-files I'm not really sure either I understand this correctly, or I agree with it. You mean change my local repo, by including a subfolder into the main library folder which would include all the objects? and then push everything? If ppl have to unzip a file, find a folder with a weird name, go into it, take the new folder with the right name, and put it somewhere, I don't see why this would be easier than just unzip the github file, rename the first folder you get and move it. I can't find other examples to understand better what you mean. thanks for your advice, -- Marco Donnarumma New Media + Sonic Arts Practitioner, Performer, Teacher, Director. ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK ~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Research: http://res.marcodonnarumma.com | http://www.thesaddj.com | http://www.flxer.net Director: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Is there a way to block/filter Mathieu ?
with all due respect, I feel your approach Mahatma is feeding war flames here. And I'm happy nobody is picking that up. It's not about hierarchy, and if you would have been participating to the list for longer time you would perfectly know it (and if you are indeed on the list since long, then you easily know that.) I can agree Mathieu and others (me included) can be a bit over the line sometimes, but I find more offensive your comment, than the previous ones. Who gives you the right to publicly ask how to solve your personal issue with an individual thoughts? Who gives you the right to call people wanna-be-gurus, when this is the ppl that allow you and me to play fancy stuff with a stupid computer. Most importantly, which is the constructive aspect of your comment? Even a hot comment on the list is always pointed at creating a discussion, where your discussion is going? If you are not happy, you are completely free to do whatever makes you feel more comfortable. Just do it, ask the administrator, and find a solution to your problem, but putting it out here it's surely counterproductive, and possibly a direct provocation. Your last comment now has a clear provocative tone. You already have the option to filter, delete whatever you like, so please do it, for your and our good sake. This list is one of the best places for thoughts we have on-line. Some of us and myself might overreact sometimes, but it's also true that our communitarian self-criticism (as a list, not as individuals) always brings us back to the real world. openness includes a bit of personal sacrifice imho. mahat...@gmail.com, this is your second post to the list, and you're already complaining about a member who has been here practically from its inception? pull your head in, mate. wouv, I was not aware of the strong hierarchy within this community. So, you imply that the wanna-be gurus on the top has right to piss off everyone and the incompetent members should obey/be quiet? I would like to have the option of not seeing his comments in the cost of missing the completeness of the threads. Anyway it looks impossible for now. -- Marco Donnarumma New Media + Sonic Arts Practitioner, Performer, Teacher, Director. ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK ~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Research: http://res.marcodonnarumma.com | http://www.thesaddj.com | http://www.flxer.net Director: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] list etiquette
Bingo. On 2012-03-11, at 6:30 AM, ALAN BROOKER alan.brooker2...@gmail.com wrote: fuck no! Pd expands boundaries of what is music and art. Why expect any boundaries on the list? The same norm you're expecting might not be shared by other people who use the list too. Just wish to clarify what I think is being discussed here which is not necessary the language but how the language is used to against others in an abusive way. For instance Mr.Y makes an announcement and the first reply from Mr. X is fuck off. Or Mrs. V posts something to the list where the subject singles out another subscriber in a disparaging way and has nothing to do with Pd at all. This isn't heated debate. The norms I am expecting are the basics of just being civil, to act in the ways described above in person would be anti-social behaviour . I don't care for some things said on the list, but all you can really do is try to convince other people to see things your way. yes, your right here, that is all that can be done. Free thought and expression on the list takes president , but when someone is singled out unfairly or having abuse thrown at them it is something I feel the need to complain about. ..or maybe I'm just troll fodder :/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] list etiquette
Scott R. Looney wrote: i think my favorite quote on list behavior is actually a picture: http://xkcd.com/438/ complemented by that one: http://xkcd.com/386/ can't sleep, someone is wrong on the internet ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Is there a way to block/filter Mathieu ?
mahatGma rabintrah wrote: I would like to have the option of not seeing his comments in the cost of missing the completeness of the threads. Anyway it looks impossible for now. Answer: read the procmail examples manual, there's an example of how to dispatch daily digests into individual emails, then apply a rule to delete mails from unwanted senders. You can also read the sed/awk/perl/python/whatever manpage and learn about regular expressions so you can extract/modify data. have a nice day, -- Charles ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] call for [comport] testing!
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012, at 15:43, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: Le 2012-03-07 à 00:03:00, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : I just committed a fix for the race condition that happens when a serial port gets disconnected on GNU/Linux and Mac OS X. Please test heavily on those platforms, including yanking out the USB plug and going out of range with a bluetooth. It should just cleanly close the serial port now. BTW, I have made a version of [comport] in 2008, to introduce an optional ring-buffer FIFO for outgoing data, with user-defined size, because I needed to upload large files by serial port. It might be a good idea to merge this feature into the main [comport] branch, for several reasons. One of them is that I'm not really distributing it anywhere. Sounds interesting, how would that affect latency? Most people use comport for getting data from sensors, so that's important. .hc ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] about problem with pd on mac os lion
If reinstalling Lion fixed it, I'm guessing it was an issue with your setup or Lion itself. .hc On Sat, Mar 10, 2012, at 18:21, Contra LUO wrote: Hi Hans The 0.42's info is about timeout, and 0.43's info is ERROR: failed to allocate port, exiting! The system log of running 0.42 is something like : defaults: The domain/default pair of (/Users/***/Pd-0.42-6.app/ Contents/Resources/Scripts/../../org.puredata.pd, audiobuf) does not exist I had tried all ways from google, include some suggestions from your posts. Finally I have reinstalled my OS Lion, and it works. Though I still don't know why it crashed. Thanks. Contra 2012/3/10 Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Each Pd-extended.app is self-contained, so they shouldn't influence each other. Try running it from the Terminal and see what it says there. Basically, copy and paste the line below into the Terminal and hit enter: /Applications/Pd-0.43.1-extended-20120226.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd -stderr .hc On Mar 8, 2012, at 1:48 AM, Contra LUO wrote: Hi there, I have a problem with pd on mac os lion. I have used to running pd-extended 0.42, but when I installed 0.43 and after uninstalling 0.43, I cannot start any version of pd or pd-extended. I have tried every version include 0.42/0.43/pd/pd-extended/double/latest... I googled some Hans' posts, tried to install TCL, restored my hosts, and removed a pirated software (really sorry for this), but it still cannot work... The logs of starting 0.42 are like this defaults: The domain/default pair of (/Users/***/Pd-0.42-6.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../../org.puredata.pd, audiobuf) does not exist . The log of starting 0.43 is only one: ERROR: failed to allocate port, exiting! I tried this just now, but still not work.. http://puredata.hurleur.com/viewtopic.p … 468#p28468http://puredata.hurleur.com/viewtopic.php?pid=28468#p28468 Are there some suggestions? Thanks very much! (I also post this problem on pd forum, but I just want to make it out quickly. Thanks. http://puredata.hurleur.com/viewtopic.php?pid=29617#p29617) ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Making boring techno music is really easy with modern tools, but with live coding, boring techno is much harder. - Chris McCormick ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] list etiquette
If you're going to talk comics: (warning: NSFW)... http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19 Truth be told. tho, this list is not so bad. From: abonneme...@revolwear.com Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 03:51:58 +0100 To: scottrloo...@gmail.com CC: pd-list@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] list etiquette It seems few people have actually read and acknowledged the netiquette. Reminder: http://puredata.info/community/lists/Netiquette Am 11.03.2012 um 02:46 schrieb Scott R. Looney: i think my favorite quote on list behavior is actually a picture: http://xkcd.com/438/ i've composed long, angry tirades and deleted them based on this. scott On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Dafydd Hughes dafyd...@gmail.com wrote: Ha! Point taken. Sorry - I never intended to come across as some kind of politeness police. On 2012-03-10, at 6:36 PM, Charles Henry czhe...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/10/12, Dafydd Hughes dafyd...@gmail.com wrote: And there are pretty widely accepted norms about language (I'm talking about agressive langage and expletives here) on the list, too, even if they're not written down, correct? fuck no! Pd expands boundaries of what is music and art. Why expect any boundaries on the list? The same norm you're expecting might not be shared by other people who use the list too. I don't care for some things said on the list, but all you can really do is try to convince other people to see things your way. People just use etiquette on the list because they want to. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] New puredata.info styled online now!!
Hey folks, the new Pd portal is out there in the wild!! Let the shock begin, and spread the voice! http://puredata.info if you think is crap, don't worry, everything can be reversed to the original version in a very simple way (I checked that). If you like it, please, help me making it even better! as you will notice, it looks ok when you are logged out, but try to login and see what happens. I didn't considered this difference, so I need to come up with a style for the Logged-in version. And that has to deal also with the usability of the interface, so I'll try to think of something good enough. I couldn't get rid of the Pd WebRing without breaking everything. I always loved it, but it looks like crap. So, ideas in this sense are also welcome. If we can make a News section as discussed before, the webring could become obsolete. Also, I couldn't get rid yet of all those icons. I don't like them, but ppl please tell me if you want them or not. @Nicolas: I'm writing here because I don't think the few ppl who gave feedback are on the web list. -- Marco Donnarumma New Media + Sonic Arts Practitioner, Performer, Teacher, Director. ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK ~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Research: http://res.marcodonnarumma.com | http://www.thesaddj.com | http://www.flxer.net Director: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] New puredata.info styled online now!!
Il 11/03/12 17.36, Hans-Christoph Steiner ha scritto: (notice also teh [pd~] icon is hidden): in macosx (firefox) the icon is semi-hidden :) __ Lazzaro ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Anonymity.
Le 2012-03-11 à 12:03:00, Marco Donnarumma a écrit : with all due respect, I feel your approach Mahatma is feeding war flames here. And I'm happy nobody is picking that up. Have you considered that this user might be an anonymised version of an existing list member ? Or it might be a close friend of a list member. Just the firstname MahatGma with a G doesn't look like it's a single person on Google Search, but searching for the full name leads you only to pd-list. And it sounds a lot like a certain person who has been on pd-list for many years. __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] list etiquette
- Original Message - From: Charles Henry czhe...@gmail.com To: Dafydd Hughes dafyd...@gmail.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at; mahatGma rabintrah mahat...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [PD] list etiquette On 3/10/12, Dafydd Hughes dafyd...@gmail.com wrote: And there are pretty widely accepted norms about language (I'm talking about agressive langage and expletives here) on the list, too, even if they're not written down, correct? fuck no! Didactic cursing doesn't violate the norm. But cursing (without provocation) at a new user who is asking for technical advice about Pd would violate the norm. If you do that you will get a very different response than you have here. Pd expands boundaries of what is music and art. Why expect any boundaries on the list? The same norm you're expecting might not be shared by other people who use the list too. Expanding boundaries implies boundaries. I don't care for some things said on the list, but all you can really do is try to convince other people to see things your way. People just use etiquette on the list because they want to. That's exactly how norms become widely accepted! In the parent thread someone's entire argument was undermined by their use of etiquette, so I don't think everybody is using it just because they want etiquette. -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Anonymity.
Yep, I considered that too... in fact I specified in parenthesis, in the previous message. M On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.cawrote: Le 2012-03-11 à 12:03:00, Marco Donnarumma a écrit : with all due respect, I feel your approach Mahatma is feeding war flames here. And I'm happy nobody is picking that up. Have you considered that this user might be an anonymised version of an existing list member ? Or it might be a close friend of a list member. Just the firstname MahatGma with a G doesn't look like it's a single person on Google Search, but searching for the full name leads you only to pd-list. And it sounds a lot like a certain person who has been on pd-list for many years. __**__** __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC -- Marco Donnarumma New Media + Sonic Arts Practitioner, Performer, Teacher, Director. ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK ~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Research: http://res.marcodonnarumma.com | http://www.thesaddj.com | http://www.flxer.net Director: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] call for [comport] testing!
Le 2012-03-11 à 10:10:00, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : Sounds interesting, how would that affect latency? Most people use comport for getting data from sensors, so that's important. The fifo is an option. If you don't use it, then there's hardly any difference. If you use it, then I think that the data is only being sent at poll time, according to how much data the driver accepts. For patches that only receive, it makes no practical difference : just an extra if(n0) in a situation where n stays 0. __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Anonymity.
- Original Message - From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca To: Marco Donnarumma de...@thesaddj.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at; i go bananas hard@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 12:59 PM Subject: [PD] Anonymity. Le 2012-03-11 à 12:03:00, Marco Donnarumma a écrit : with all due respect, I feel your approach Mahatma is feeding war flames here. And I'm happy nobody is picking that up. Have you considered that this user might be an anonymised version of an existing list member ? Or it might be a close friend of a list member. Just the firstname MahatGma with a G doesn't look like it's a single person on Google Search, but searching for the full name leads you only to pd-list. And it sounds a lot like a certain person who has been on pd-list for many years. How is the true identity of the OP relevant here? -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Anonymity.
Le 2012-03-11 à 17:06:00, Marco Donnarumma a écrit : Yep, I considered that too... in fact I specified in parenthesis, in the previous message. Ah sorry, I didn't read the whole thread, and I didn't read much of the email I replied to. I only assumed that if you wrote so long about it, then you are assuming that it's a real person. __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Anonymity.
I suspect it is sevy. On Mar 11, 2012, at 12:59 PM, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: Le 2012-03-11 à 12:03:00, Marco Donnarumma a écrit : with all due respect, I feel your approach Mahatma is feeding war flames here. And I'm happy nobody is picking that up. Have you considered that this user might be an anonymised version of an existing list member ? Or it might be a close friend of a list member. Just the firstname MahatGma with a G doesn't look like it's a single person on Google Search, but searching for the full name leads you only to pd-list. And it sounds a lot like a certain person who has been on pd-list for many years. __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Anonymity.
Yep, I did. I hopefully might be wrong and arguing with a virtual entity... :) M On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.cawrote: Le 2012-03-11 à 17:06:00, Marco Donnarumma a écrit : Yep, I considered that too... in fact I specified in parenthesis, in the previous message. Ah sorry, I didn't read the whole thread, and I didn't read much of the email I replied to. I only assumed that if you wrote so long about it, then you are assuming that it's a real person. __**__** __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC -- Marco Donnarumma New Media + Sonic Arts Practitioner, Performer, Teacher, Director. ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK ~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Research: http://res.marcodonnarumma.com | http://www.thesaddj.com | http://www.flxer.net Director: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Anonymity.
Le 2012-03-11 à 10:12:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca And it sounds a lot like a certain person who has been on pd-list for many years. How is the true identity of the OP relevant here? Because I doubt that this thread would have had as many posters and messages, if the real name had been written. New fresh names cause posters to have a very much different attitude. Using a fake name is a way to play with that change of attitude. __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Some more float weirdness/fun
Le 2012-03-10 à 16:31:00, Charles Henry a écrit : How about an abstraction that uses = against 2xepsilon*|input|? That would be a reliable automatic way to ignore single-bit rounding errors. Don't you wish rounding errors would be at most single-bit. But as you compose more operations together, error can accumulate and/or amplify. This is why no-one uses a definition of == with a hardcoded epsilon in it, in any programming language that I ever heard of. __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Anonymity.
- Original Message - From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: Marco Donnarumma de...@thesaddj.com; pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at; i go bananas hard@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [PD] Anonymity. Le 2012-03-11 à 10:12:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca And it sounds a lot like a certain person who has been on pd-list for many years. How is the true identity of the OP relevant here? Because I doubt that this thread would have had as many posters and messages, if the real name had been written. New fresh names cause posters to have a very much different attitude. Using a fake name is a way to play with that change of attitude. If that's true it doesn't go very far, because there is only one other person that agrees with the new poster, and if any more new posters suddenly arrived to agree it would raise serious red flags in such a small community. __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tooltips in pd-extended 0.43
Le 2012-03-10 à 11:13:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : I don't know, I think that canvas space is somewhat more touchy to manage in pd than in firefox, and I would think that it's not that much about full-width... the full-height seems at least as important... and the fact that pd patches always state their own size, while web pages rarely do... and pd patches more often rely on it... and it's often because they have no real means to do otherwise. I have no idea what this means. Try out the tooltips and see how they interact with the canvas. I am in no way resizing the canvas nor the window. I was trying to talk about both the statusbar approach and the transient approach at the same time, sorry. I'll try it... eventually... but these days, all I do with pd is a bit of music and that still makes me too lazy to get out of ext 42. __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] call for [comport] testing!
On Mar 11, 2012, at 1:07 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: Le 2012-03-11 à 10:10:00, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : Sounds interesting, how would that affect latency? Most people use comport for getting data from sensors, so that's important. The fifo is an option. If you don't use it, then there's hardly any difference. If you use it, then I think that the data is only being sent at poll time, according to how much data the driver accepts. For patches that only receive, it makes no practical difference : just an extra if(n0) in a situation where n stays 0. There is already buffering happening, my guess is at the OS level, since the bytes are read in bursts, no matter how fast the polling it for read or write. Have you tried adjusting the size of the system buffer for serial? Is that even an option? .hc Free software means you control what your computer does. Non-free software means someone else controls that, and to some extent controls you. - Richard M. Stallman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Anonymity.
On 11/03/12 18:59, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchardma...@artengine.ca To: Jonathan Wilkesjancs...@yahoo.com Cc: Marco Donnarummade...@thesaddj.com; pd-list@iem.atpd-list@iem.at; i go bananashard@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [PD] Anonymity. Le 2012-03-11 à 10:12:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : From: Mathieu Bouchardma...@artengine.ca And it sounds a lot like a certain person who has been on pd-list for many years. How is the true identity of the OP relevant here? Because I doubt that this thread would have had as many posters and messages, if the real name had been written. New fresh names cause posters to have a very much different attitude. Using a fake name is a way to play with that change of attitude. If that's true it doesn't go very far, because there is only one other person that agrees with the new poster, and if any more new posters suddenly arrived to agree it would raise serious red flags in such a small community. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v94ugLhua9Y ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Anonymity.
On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 09:21:45PM +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v94ugLhua9Y Hmm, so sevy seems like an obvious red herring. Whoever put the hemlock in Mathieu's tea probably knows him, and has held a grudge over losing a game of Go thay swore to avenge many years ago... The plot thickens... (I was in the library. That's my story and I'm sticking to it) ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] vline~ precision, or sequentially segmented playback of a buffer
Joao, if the jumps are always (theoretically zero) going to be very small (no backjumps of a whole segment) then let's suggest a quick and practical fix and ignore the whole issue of sample accuracy in the control system. I take it you only need this to sound good enough, not be sample accurate: Place a [lop~ 1000] after the [vline~] This will remove any sudden little jumps and smooth the playback at segment boundaries. Might be good enough for rock n roll. On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 11:05:31PM +0100, João Pais wrote: Hello list, continuing with a topic I started some time ago (but couldn't continue the discussion), I've made a simulated version of my patch to explain the situation. The full patch is too complex, and would need audio files to be sent with it. The context is as follows: An audio file stored in a buffer is played in small segments in a forward-backward sequence. Each segment is played after the previous, with no gaps in time or reading point. First segment goes as 0 - 8638.86, 2nd as 8638.86 - 17277.7, 3rd as 17277.7 - 25916.6 , etc. All segments are triggered at the same pace, in this case 181.818 ms. You can see all the segments in the [textfile]. Ideally, the original audio file would be reproduced with no difference to the original - besides the playback pointer going forward-backward. But when playing back the segments, after the first initial moment with almost no problems (only the clicks when playback changes direction), clicks start to appear at each segment - from around sample 229K onwards. Since I'm using [vline~], I thought that the timing of the reading point related to the audio blocks wouldn't be a problem. But, if you record the output and look at the audio file, you'll see that the clicks come from a out of phase moment, and then the wave continues. My question is: am I doing something wrong with the circuit? If not, is there an efficient way of achieving a similar playback of a stored buffer? I hope everything is clear. The original patch is a monster, but this version sums up what's happening. Btw, in the original patch all the values are calculated in real time. But with the recorded version the audio sound just the same. The original audio file is 5m18s long. Will the be any round-up problems while calculating the segment coordinates to tabread4~? Thanks in advance for who has the time to read this, Joao ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Editing CSS style, make pd.info better? [WAS: puredata.info site design provocation]
yes i have to admit i'm starting to judge the relevancy of a website at least in part with design modernity. was just looking at various open source 3D gaming engines and i could instantly tell the 2003-2007 era from the 2008-2012 era. i still investigated what each site had to offer, but graphic presentation added to the friendliness/accessibility factor. sites like the current Processing site and Openframeworks.cc seem cleaner and easier to both attract users and navigate. my thoughts on the design: overall an excellent beginning to a new look! it started me thinking about possible further improvements. so consider this a design brainstorm thingy with NO obligation that anyone has to do what i'm suggesting (especially Marco who started the ball rolling). i don't have any time to do it at the moment (i'm avoiding grading right now) but it certainly gives me ideas, so here we go: Navigation i'm not pushing this but it seems like side based navigation is sort of less common on modern websites? the look is pretty modern and clean however. Processing (2 columns) and Ofx (2 or 3 - not sure) both use top navigation which i think draws the eye better. i resisted top nav for a while but i think it relates better to subject matter. bigger more graphic pictures on the front page of various projects i think will attract more attention to the artistic aspects. a better top banner is a MUST. Exhibition page should definitely be overhauled with a much more graphic look whenever possible. Marco's Xth-Sense, Billy's Helmholtz ship animation any other graphic demonstrations of PD in action in realtime either audio wise or using video manipulation ala Gem or whatever should be there in plain view, not just a link to someone's website. No idea if Plone can do graphic grid placement of thumbnails for videos but that's what comes to mind. i'm not against a carousel video thing, but i think it's a consideration for future design. if it's just a patch processing audio, i don't know, maybe some audio examples of the patch via a jquery-type player onscreen? the idea is to get folks interested equally in what PD can do as well as finding out more information about the artist if they are so inclined. Downloads and Distributions - separate categories at the moment if i wanted to find out what PD-vanilla or PD-extended was, i'd have to go to the Downloads page. i'm not sure if that's intuitive enough. if i wanted to find out what a distribution was about versus downloading it, i'm not sure if i'd go to Downloads. so maybe something labeled Distributions? then put PD-vanilla, PD-extended, and something like l2ork there? i see a huge amount of talk on the list from Ivo about his version and some of it's benefits. i think it should be listed there. there should be Download links of course as well. Such a page might also be called 'About PD', give a brief history/description of how PD itself works and then the other variants listed below with download links? Objects list This is probably overly ambitious but existing objects or patches for vanilla, pd-extended and 'unauthorized' contributed extensions would be great to see described possibly in a simple table form grouped by category, or even better, tagged in multiple searchable ways in a database. i ran into a website listing all of the available objects and contributions from around 2011 and actually started to pull everything off and reorganize everything into a database in Filemaker but got too busy to do anything with it. ideally some indication or form that could be updated by each contributor would be useful. i would propose a form that at least highlights the following: name | object or patch | category tag/s | vanilla or collection name (like cyclone) | description(short) | distributions (extended, l2ork, whatever) | documentation/example of patch | dependencies (which, if any) this would sort out objects from patches and especially objects/patches that rely on other libraries to be installed to work. if things were organized correctly PDDP might be able to pull its info from this centralized database, which might help cut down on redundant efforts. allright i gotta get to work, feel free to discuss/elaborate/tear it apart/whatever. best to all, scott ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Editing CSS style, make pd.info better? [WAS: puredata.info site design provocation]
On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 12:37, Marco Donnarumma de...@thesaddj.com wrote: [...] - if the main page ever gets populated with News et al, it would be nice to have a cover picture however. Eventually rotating cover pictures, possibly linked. Maybe a crazy idea, but wouldn't it make sense to have a carousel-like thing showing up items from the Exhibition on the main page? this is very easy with vimeo, but the problem of the vimeo video group is that it is not based on the same curation limit as for the exhibition section, people can add their own videos. agree, see my previous message. I think it's ok to have the vimeo channel and the exhibition page. Anyway, almost nobody post things to the exhibition page, so we should find a way to make it more interesting to post there. - all i currently see when clicking Community is check out DevelopmentWiki. Is this a temporary or very necessary state here? when you click development you mean? This can be normally easily changed but if Iohannes has done that there must be a reason. other comments: - I think it should be nice to have a large picture header, maybe something like max has done for vimeo: https://vimeo.com/groups/puredata it will keep together the whole page. sure, but cannot do it from the css. So I'm waiting to get the css done first. I agree with your previous comments/decisions Marco. About the main page: a large picture picture header is what we are seemingly all talking about. The question is it's content. I reckon it shall not be static, but something that dynamically changes over time. My vision is to have that kind of carousel [1] which would rotate content. Now, the content could be from Vimeo, but I agree it's risky because it's beyond our control. The Exhibition, on the other hand, seems just right, because a carousel doesn't have to have so many elements anyway. Of course it's more than CSS. When it's decided and you think it's time, I can help with putting it together. [1] some carousel examples: http://www.smileycat.com/design_elements/carousels/ - I find the main content div not large enough Ok, I tried to find a balance, actually I'm afraid this is already to wide for a mobile browser. Can someone apply the css class of the body and see what happens on a mobile? I just checked with an iphone emulator (ibbdemo) and i don't even see the new design. No idea why. - i find the navigation menu too padded, specially on the left Can do less padding, I just like wide spacey things... :) what other ppl think? On a large screen it looks fine to me. a new observation: visited links have their own color (i guess they shall not) which seems to be dark grey at some parts of the page and some pages, and purple on some other pages tanks for your work, we all really deserve a better looking portal. Thanks! András ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Editing CSS style, make pd.info better? [WAS: puredata.info site design provocation]
When the new, yet-to-be launched, Inkscape website was being developed I remember the team took some inspiration from what this guy said regarding the current Blender website http://www.blenderguru.com/the-big-issues Scroll down to the Marketing section. On 11 March 2012 23:02, Scott R. Looney scottrloo...@gmail.com wrote: yes i have to admit i'm starting to judge the relevancy of a website at least in part with design modernity. was just looking at various open source 3D gaming engines and i could instantly tell the 2003-2007 era from the 2008-2012 era. i still investigated what each site had to offer, but graphic presentation added to the friendliness/accessibility factor. sites like the current Processing site and Openframeworks.cc seem cleaner and easier to both attract users and navigate. my thoughts on the design: overall an excellent beginning to a new look! it started me thinking about possible further improvements. so consider this a design brainstorm thingy with NO obligation that anyone has to do what i'm suggesting (especially Marco who started the ball rolling). i don't have any time to do it at the moment (i'm avoiding grading right now) but it certainly gives me ideas, so here we go: Navigation i'm not pushing this but it seems like side based navigation is sort of less common on modern websites? the look is pretty modern and clean however. Processing (2 columns) and Ofx (2 or 3 - not sure) both use top navigation which i think draws the eye better. i resisted top nav for a while but i think it relates better to subject matter. bigger more graphic pictures on the front page of various projects i think will attract more attention to the artistic aspects. a better top banner is a MUST. Exhibition page should definitely be overhauled with a much more graphic look whenever possible. Marco's Xth-Sense, Billy's Helmholtz ship animation any other graphic demonstrations of PD in action in realtime either audio wise or using video manipulation ala Gem or whatever should be there in plain view, not just a link to someone's website. No idea if Plone can do graphic grid placement of thumbnails for videos but that's what comes to mind. i'm not against a carousel video thing, but i think it's a consideration for future design. if it's just a patch processing audio, i don't know, maybe some audio examples of the patch via a jquery-type player onscreen? the idea is to get folks interested equally in what PD can do as well as finding out more information about the artist if they are so inclined. Downloads and Distributions - separate categories at the moment if i wanted to find out what PD-vanilla or PD-extended was, i'd have to go to the Downloads page. i'm not sure if that's intuitive enough. if i wanted to find out what a distribution was about versus downloading it, i'm not sure if i'd go to Downloads. so maybe something labeled Distributions? then put PD-vanilla, PD-extended, and something like l2ork there? i see a huge amount of talk on the list from Ivo about his version and some of it's benefits. i think it should be listed there. there should be Download links of course as well. Such a page might also be called 'About PD', give a brief history/description of how PD itself works and then the other variants listed below with download links? Objects list This is probably overly ambitious but existing objects or patches for vanilla, pd-extended and 'unauthorized' contributed extensions would be great to see described possibly in a simple table form grouped by category, or even better, tagged in multiple searchable ways in a database. i ran into a website listing all of the available objects and contributions from around 2011 and actually started to pull everything off and reorganize everything into a database in Filemaker but got too busy to do anything with it. ideally some indication or form that could be updated by each contributor would be useful. i would propose a form that at least highlights the following: name | object or patch | category tag/s | vanilla or collection name (like cyclone) | description(short) | distributions (extended, l2ork, whatever) | documentation/example of patch | dependencies (which, if any) this would sort out objects from patches and especially objects/patches that rely on other libraries to be installed to work. if things were organized correctly PDDP might be able to pull its info from this centralized database, which might help cut down on redundant efforts. allright i gotta get to work, feel free to discuss/elaborate/tear it apart/whatever. best to all, scott ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- anto...@hellocatfood.com http://www.hellocatfood.com
Re: [PD] High end, low end (was : some other topic)
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 08:39, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: Le 2012-03-09 à 19:58:00, András Murányi a écrit : Then they have a certain high end, the more advanced topics within - e.g. dynamic patching for me, or libPd according to Julian. Now, someone can fear that the focus of developments could move towards the high end, leaving simple folks increasingly frustrated. Many projects are driven by the high-end. It's necessary. They're also driven by the high-end. Many low-end features start existing because high-end features first allowed them to exist. If someone makes an easy-to-use polyphonic synth, this synth might be using dynamic-patching features, perhaps new ones or new ways of using the old ones. This needs high-end development. In projects like Pd, development has always to be multi-focus. It isn't just that. Even in the case of unrelated features, high-end features are what keeps the high-end users around, and they're the ones who write externals and abstractions, both for themselves and for others. Low-end users don't produce nearly as much low-end abstractions and externals as high-end users do. It's that the very ability to figure out what should go in a given abstr/extern, and what should be left out, and all the strategies of how to specify args, etc., those are all skills that are characteristics of high-end users. Every such skill moves you towards the higher-end. At some point I had to realise that I couldn't just ask students to make abstractions... I mean that I couldn't just teach them the mechanics of $1 arguments and $0-foo local variables. They still haven't thought about how to figure out which ideas should become abstractions and which shouldn't, etc. ; they'd need something of the order of « Introduction to programming », perhaps several semesters, but I remember that in university, after the 4th such course, students only began to figure out what could be a good library vs a bad one. So, definitely, Pd users who didn't go through the equivalent of those courses (or of some other related courses) rarely would publish a library that other people would want to use. So, it's important that high-end users keep on making low-end components. It's also that everybody needs to use some of those « low-end components »... there are lots of things common to all users. And even though high-end users can more easily tolerate design problems and bugs and various difficulties, they don't necessarily like them. I agree. And NB when I advocate the low-end, I'm by no means against the high-end. The high-end is the avant-garde, so to say. It's not an either-or game. I don't share, but I think I can understand that fear, and my point was that Pd shall keep the low end accessible and up-to-date. Actually, I wonder which features you have in mind when you say that. Hmm. Definitely the GUI comes to my mind first, the put menu-bar, autocompletion, search, zooming, the magic glass - these all make it more accessible and user friendly. I guess, beginners and amateurs (like me) need these more than experts do. Yea, this is what we call in our wonderfully expressive Hungarian language szőrszálhasogatás :o) What I mean about that, is that for making your point, saying full-time isn't simply a small exaggeration. Otherwise, I don't think I'd have made a fuss. My original wording was professional. Professional, full-time, or high-end, all different essays to verbalize my fuzzy idea. András ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] vline~ precision, or sequentially segmented playback of a buffer
Hi João, The first thing I'm wondering is if you want each segment to have the same number of samples. I see that the time to scrub through each segment is the same (181.818 ms), but then the length of segments in samples varies. I guess the pitch shift that happens from this isn't a problem? Also, it looks like not all of the boundaries in your log.txt line up. Starting on segment 330, there are gaps now and then: 198694 207333 181.818; 210909 219994 181.818; That explains the phase discontinuities (at least some). I know this is just your abstracted problem, but maybe similar unexpected gaps exist in your main patch? On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 6:05 PM, João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com wrote: Hello list, continuing with a topic I started some time ago (but couldn't continue the discussion), I've made a simulated version of my patch to explain the situation. The full patch is too complex, and would need audio files to be sent with it. The context is as follows: An audio file stored in a buffer is played in small segments in a forward-backward sequence. Each segment is played after the previous, with no gaps in time or reading point. First segment goes as 0 - 8638.86, 2nd as 8638.86 - 17277.7, 3rd as 17277.7 - 25916.6 , etc. All segments are triggered at the same pace, in this case 181.818 ms. You can see all the segments in the [textfile]. Ideally, the original audio file would be reproduced with no difference to the original - besides the playback pointer going forward-backward. But when playing back the segments, after the first initial moment with almost no problems (only the clicks when playback changes direction), clicks start to appear at each segment - from around sample 229K onwards. Since I'm using [vline~], I thought that the timing of the reading point related to the audio blocks wouldn't be a problem. But, if you record the output and look at the audio file, you'll see that the clicks come from a out of phase moment, and then the wave continues. My question is: am I doing something wrong with the circuit? If not, is there an efficient way of achieving a similar playback of a stored buffer? I hope everything is clear. The original patch is a monster, but this version sums up what's happening. Btw, in the original patch all the values are calculated in real time. But with the recorded version the audio sound just the same. The original audio file is 5m18s long. Will the be any round-up problems while calculating the segment coordinates to tabread4~? Thanks in advance for who has the time to read this, Joao ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- William Brent www.williambrent.com “Great minds flock together” Conflations: conversational idiom for the 21st century www.conflations.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Anonymity.
It's a real person. http://puredata.hurleur.com/recherche-1521813748.html so i'm sorry Mathieu, but it seems that the dislike for your guru status is genuine. Maybe you could consider another vocation? :D ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Editing CSS style, make pd.info better? [WAS: puredata.info site design provocation]
On Mar 11, 2012, at 7:02 PM, Scott R. Looney wrote: yes i have to admit i'm starting to judge the relevancy of a website at least in part with design modernity. was just looking at various open source 3D gaming engines and i could instantly tell the 2003-2007 era from the 2008-2012 era. i still investigated what each site had to offer, but graphic presentation added to the friendliness/accessibility factor. sites like the current Processing site and Openframeworks.cc seem cleaner and easier to both attract users and navigate. my thoughts on the design: overall an excellent beginning to a new look! it started me thinking about possible further improvements. so consider this a design brainstorm thingy with NO obligation that anyone has to do what i'm suggesting (especially Marco who started the ball rolling). i don't have any time to do it at the moment (i'm avoiding grading right now) but it certainly gives me ideas, so here we go: Navigation i'm not pushing this but it seems like side based navigation is sort of less common on modern websites? the look is pretty modern and clean however. Processing (2 columns) and Ofx (2 or 3 - not sure) both use top navigation which i think draws the eye better. i resisted top nav for a while but i think it relates better to subject matter. bigger more graphic pictures on the front page of various projects i think will attract more attention to the artistic aspects. a better top banner is a MUST. Exhibition page should definitely be overhauled with a much more graphic look whenever possible. Marco's Xth-Sense, Billy's Helmholtz ship animation any other graphic demonstrations of PD in action in realtime either audio wise or using video manipulation ala Gem or whatever should be there in plain view, not just a link to someone's website. No idea if Plone can do graphic grid placement of thumbnails for videos but that's what comes to mind. i'm not against a carousel video thing, but i think it's a consideration for future design. if it's just a patch processing audio, i don't know, maybe some audio examples of the patch via a jquery-type player onscreen? the idea is to get folks interested equally in what PD can do as well as finding out more information about the artist if they are so inclined. Sounds like good ideas. If you think those projects should be on the exhibition page, you should just add them: http://puredata.info/docs/sitedocs/AddingToTheExhibition The only rule is that you can't put projects in the exhibition that you had something to do with (no self-promotion). Downloads and Distributions - separate categories at the moment if i wanted to find out what PD-vanilla or PD-extended was, i'd have to go to the Downloads page. i'm not sure if that's intuitive enough. if i wanted to find out what a distribution was about versus downloading it, i'm not sure if i'd go to Downloads. so maybe something labeled Distributions? then put PD-vanilla, PD-extended, and something like l2ork there? i see a huge amount of talk on the list from Ivo about his version and some of it's benefits. i think it should be listed there. there should be Download links of course as well. Such a page might also be called 'About PD', give a brief history/description of how PD itself works and then the other variants listed below with download links? One of the download sections is labels distros. Not good enough? .hc Objects list This is probably overly ambitious but existing objects or patches for vanilla, pd-extended and 'unauthorized' contributed extensions would be great to see described possibly in a simple table form grouped by category, or even better, tagged in multiple searchable ways in a database. i ran into a website listing all of the available objects and contributions from around 2011 and actually started to pull everything off and reorganize everything into a database in Filemaker but got too busy to do anything with it. ideally some indication or form that could be updated by each contributor would be useful. i would propose a form that at least highlights the following: name | object or patch | category tag/s | vanilla or collection name (like cyclone) | description(short) | distributions (extended, l2ork, whatever) | documentation/example of patch | dependencies (which, if any) this would sort out objects from patches and especially objects/patches that rely on other libraries to be installed to work. if things were organized correctly PDDP might be able to pull its info from this centralized database, which might help cut down on redundant efforts. allright i gotta get to work, feel free to discuss/elaborate/tear it apart/whatever. best to all, scott ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Anonymity.
Le 2012-03-12 à 12:11:00, i go bananas a écrit : It's a real person. http://puredata.hurleur.com/recherche-1521813748.html This returns « no hits ». It seems that this URL can't be pasted. And http://puredata.hurleur.com/profil-1751-mahatgma refers to Aykut Caglayan, who has been posting to pd-list using aykut_caglayan at yahoo.com in the last two years including 10 days ago, and it is not the same address as the new mahatgma. It seems that jumping to conclusions is a popular sport ; especially as it actually involves less effort than not practicing it. so i'm sorry Mathieu, but it seems that the dislike for your guru status It is strange that this g-word springs up in the complaints, because this word comes up only a few times per year on pd-list, and it's rarely ever about someone in particular (once in several years...). __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
